Psych Tech @ Work

“The future of assessments is about customization at scale. AI allows us to generate and adapt assessments in real-time, making them more relevant to specific job roles.”–Ben WilliamsIntroduction: In this episode of Psych Tech @ Work, I sit down with Ben Williams, Managing Director of Sten 10, to discuss how AI is reshaping the field of psychometric assessments and hiring processes. Our conversation dives into the evolving landscape of AI-driven assessments, the ethical considerations of using AI in hiring, and the challenges of maintaining transparency and fairness while incorporating new technologies. Ben shares insights into blending AI with traditional assessment tools and how this impacts the future of selection processes.Key Topics Covered:* The role of AI in automating and customizing assessments* Emerging challenges in trust, fairness, and explainability in AI-powered hiring* The importance of designing job-specific psychometric tools that align with organizational needs* AI's potential in generating, scoring, and validating assessments* Future implications of AI on entry-level and senior hiring rolesSummary:We explore AI’s role in streamlining psychometric assessments while addressing challenges in maintaining transparency and fairness. Ben describes how Sten 10 has integrated AI to make assessment processes faster and more personalized without losing the critical human oversight needed for ethical hiring practices. We also discuss prompt engineering, AI literacy, and the limitations of AI-generated assessments. One significant takeaway is the growing importance of designing highly contextual and customized assessments using AI while ensuring they remain interpretable and meaningful.We touch on real-world examples, including how AI can generate coaching tips and personality profiles, as well as potential concerns regarding the over-reliance on AI outputs. The conversation also highlights emerging roles related to AI governance and the need for regulatory oversight to ensure fair hiring practices.Key Takeaways:* AI augments, but doesn’t replace human oversight: While AI is making assessments faster and more scalable, the need for human validation remains critical to ensuring fairness.* Custom psychometric assessments are the future: Moving beyond off-the-shelf tools, companies can develop highly specific and job-relevant assessments using AI.* Prompt engineering for assessments: Organizations can create better assessment tools by focusing on AI prompt development and optimization.* AI literacy is essential for hiring professionals: As AI becomes more embedded in hiring, HR professionals need to understand its benefits and limitations to apply it responsibly.* Trust and explainability are key: Companies must prioritize transparency to gain candidate trust and meet regulatory standards.Conclusion:AI’s role in hiring is evolving rapidly, and the opportunities for innovation are endless. However, as Ben notes, the path forward requires a careful balance between technological advances and maintaining human control. By designing psychometric tools with AI and human collaboration, organizations can achieve a fairer and more effective hiring process.Take It or Leave It? Articles:* “Ineffective Human-AI Interactions and Solutions” — Oxford Review* Summary: This article delves into the factors influencing human-AI collaboration, including cognitive load and decision control. Ben highlights how integrating AI into familiar tools like Slack and Word can reduce friction and improve adoption.* “AI and Public Perception: What Americans Really Think” — Center for Data Innovation* Summary: A survey reveals mixed feelings about AI, with curiosity decreasing and negative emotions on the rise. Ben critiques the contradictions in public attitudes toward AI and how these perceptions could shape its future adoption in hiring. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

“We need global standards to define and verify skills, or we’ll be left with confusion and inconsistency across industries.” -Notebook LM’s Deep Dive Podcast HostsSkills based hiring is all the rage, and so is AI.So what happens when you mix the two?In this special edition of Psych Tech @ Work, I handed the mic over to AI using Google’s Notebook LM. The result? A fully AI-generated exploration of the evolving world of skills-based hiring. But how well did AI do at covering this complex and nuanced topic? So how did it do?  Listen and decide for yourself.In the meantime- Here is a short summary to pique your curiosity.Skills-based hiring promises to break down barriers and redefine how we think about qualifications, but it’s not without challenges. This episode examines how companies can move beyond traditional degree requirements and leverage diverse learning pathways. It also highlights the shift from career ladders to flexible, lattice-like models and the critical role of leadership in making these transformations happen.Key Takeaways:* AI is a tool, not the solution: Organizations need both AI-driven assessments and human judgment to effectively identify and verify skills.* Degrees aren’t everything: Employers must embrace non-traditional education pathways to access untapped talent.* Lifelong learning is essential: Workers should continuously upskill and showcase their abilities through portfolios and personal branding.* The career ladder is outdated: Flexible career paths based on transferable skills are the future.* Leadership drives change: True transformation in hiring practices requires bold decisions beyond tech implementation.Conclusion:This AI-powered episode demonstrates the potential of using AI for content creation while also showing its limitations. AI did a great job providing structure and highlighting key points, but human oversight remains essential to ensure deeper exploration and address the human factors that technology alone can’t fully capture. Skills-based hiring requires more than AI—it needs leaders willing to rethink and redesign hiring practices with empathy and inclusivity in mind.Please listen and share your thoughts on how these robots did exploring the issues and drawing meaningful conclusions! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

“Technology should enable human connection, not replace it.”—Alison EyringIntroductionIn this episode, I’m joined by my friend Alison Eyring, an IO psychologist with decades of experience in the realm of global leadership and talent development and the founder of Produgie.I have known Alison for a very long time - in fact she was my first “real world” project sponsor back in 1994!It was a pleasure to welcome Alison to the show for a great conversation about the role of human centered design when building software to help leaders do their thing!  Summary:Our conversation explores the intersection of leadership psychology and technology design. Alison shares insights on how psychological safety can be both measured and improved, emphasizing its critical role in team dynamics and organizational success. We dive into her approach to developing tools tailored to user needs, the importance of cultural agility for global leaders, and how technology can both enhance and challenge workplace trust. Throughout, Alison highlights how organizations can foster meaningful change through a combination of data, design, and human connection.Key Topics Covered:* The psychology behind software usability and human-centered design.* Measuring and improving psychological safety within teams.* The evolving role of AI in leadership and organizational development.* Using adaptive tools to support leaders in achieving greater impact.* The challenges and opportunities of cultural agility in a globalized workforce.Takeaways:* Psychological Safety: Leaders can actively improve psychological safety, a critical element for team effectiveness and engagement, by fostering trust and transparency.* Cultural Agility: Leadership in a global context requires a combination of self-awareness, competencies, and experiences to navigate cultural differences effectively.* Data-Driven Insights: Organizations can gain actionable insights from assessments and development tools to better understand leadership strengths and weaknesses.* Human-Centered Design: Building technology for HR or leadership should prioritize the user’s challenges and needs, not just the buyer’s demands.* AI in Leadership: AI can support leaders in providing feedback, fostering growth, and driving measurable outcomes, but its use must be transparent and human-supervised.Take It or Leave It Articles:* “The Homework Apocalypse” by Ethan Mollick* Summary: This article discusses how educators are grappling with AI tools used by students for coursework and the need to rethink educational approaches. Alison critiques the rapid pace of AI developments and emphasizes the importance of teaching judgment and understanding bias in AI-generated insights.* “Psychological Safety in the Workplace”* Summary: This article explores what psychological safety is, what erodes it, and how organizations can foster it. Alison highlights the timeless nature of this topic and its centrality to leadership and organizational success. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

"AI isn’t replacing people—it's augmenting them. The people who know how to use AI will replace those who don’t: "Redesigning jobs is about understanding which tasks humans excel at and which tasks AI can handle—then finding the perfect balance."Guest:Sania Khan* Labor Economist, founder of Inflection Point Consulting, Chief Economist at a leading talent intelligence AI company, Senior Economist at the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)Summary:In this episode of Psych Tech @ Work, I welcome a new friend and brilliant Labor Economist Sania Khan, whose unique perspective blends macroeconomic labor trends, AI-driven work redesign, the evolution of skills, and the future of workSania shares insights from her experience at the Bureau of Labor Statistics and her work with emerging talent intelligence tools to tackle one of today’s hottest topics: how jobs are being fundamentally deconstructed into tasks, skills, and competencies.We dig into how AI is reshaping work—from automating routine tasks to creating new opportunities—and what this means for businesses and individuals. Sania makes the case for job redesign as an essential forward looking strategy for organizations as they adapt to the increasing role of AI in redefining the rules of work.We agree that the world of work will increasingly find itself tied to a skills based economy which will require solving the challenge of moving beyond buzzwords like “skills-based hiring” and focus on aligning emerging technologies with human potential.This will require building consistent skills taxonomies, focusing on durable skills like problem-solving and critical thinking, and the gap between hype and reality when it comes to AI’s impact on the labor market. Topics Covered:* Deconstructing Jobs with AI* How AI is automating tasks within jobs, freeing workers for more meaningful work.* The importance of job redesign to align organizational goals with evolving roles.* Skills-Based Hiring and Skills Taxonomies* Why a globally accepted definition of "skills" remains elusive and how this hinders interoperability across platforms.* The challenge of relying on resumes and job descriptions as source materials for skills analysis.* The Future of Work and AI's Impact* AI’s dual role: creating efficiencies while raising concerns about job replacement.* Predictions for future jobs—like AI specialists, prompt engineers, and responsible AI officers—and how organizations can prepare.* Durable Skills and Adaptability* Why “durable skills” like problem-solving, critical thinking, and agility will define professional success.* How workers can future-proof their careers by learning to work with AI, not against it.Takeaways:* AI is reshaping work by automating routine tasks, but humans remain critical for complex, meaningful roles.* Organizations must focus on job redesign to capitalize on AI while ensuring employees do meaningful, value-added work.* Skills-based hiring is promising but hindered by inconsistent taxonomies and unreliable data sources.* Durable skills—like critical thinking, problem-solving, and adaptability—are the key to navigating AI-driven change.* Workers who learn to augment their skills with AI will have the greatest advantage.* New roles like AI specialists, responsible AI officers, and prompt engineers will emerge as businesses adopt more advanced technologies.Articles Discussed in the "Take It or Leave It" Segment:* "Research: How GenAI is Already Impacting the Labor Market" – Harvard Business Review* Summary: A data-backed look at how generative AI is reducing demand for automation-prone gig work while increasing competition in the labor market. Sania underscores the importance of becoming exceptional at your craft to remain competitive.* "How AI Is Fueling Long-Term Job Growth" – Fast Company* Summary: A positive perspective on AI’s role in creating new jobs, like AI specialists and data scientists. Sania challenges the overly optimistic forecasts, noting the need for realistic strategies to align skills with emerging roles.This episode provides a compelling look at the intersection of technology, skills, and workforce transformation—a must-listen for leaders navigating the evolving world of work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

"The most important competency for success in global assignments? Humility—being willing to learn how to succeed in a new cultural context."* Paula CaligiuriPaula is THE expert in this realm!In this episode, I welcome Paula Caligiuri, a renowned expert in cross-cultural psychology and global leadership and author of many books about cross-cultural adaptation and career happiness, the latest ones being:Build Your Cultural Agility: The Nine Competencies of Successful Global Professionals (2021)Live for a Living: How to Create your Career Journey to Work Happier, Not Harder (2023, co-authored with Andrew Palmer)I have known Paula for almost 30 years.  Her research played an essential role in my dissertation which was on cross-cultural adaptation in expatriate work assignments.  While I do not work in this area, Paula sure does!  She has dedicated her career to research and practice on the psychology of cross-cultural adaptation in both the personal and professional realms.I really enjoyed the opportunity to speak with Paula about the intricacies of cultural agility, the challenges faced by individuals working internationally, and how organizations can better prepare their employees for success in diverse environments.Cultural Agility is the name of the game.Our conversation is anchored by the concept of “Cultural Agility”, a combination of awareness, competencies, and experiences that allow individuals to be effective in multicultural environments. Paula describes it as being made up of:* Awareness: Understanding one's own values and how they compare to different cultural contexts.* Competencies: The skills needed to enter a novel environment, learn it, and be effective. These include both relationship-oriented competencies (like perspective-taking, relationship-building, and humility) and personal self-oriented competencies.* Experiences: Exposure to different cultural contexts, though Paula emphasizes that experiences alone are not enough.Paula notes that cultural agility involves the ability to adapt and thrive in unfamiliar cultural settings. She emphasizes that it's not just about giving people experiences abroad, but also equipping them with the knowledge and skills to navigate cultural differences effectively.Biology is a critical factor in adaptationProbably the most interesting thing I learned from our conversation was the role hormones play in cultural agility because they can help individuals handle greater levels of novelty comfortably and effectively, and that those with higher cultural agility are often better able to adjust to more challenging cultural contexts.  Did you know that- elevated cortisol levels in response to cultural unfamiliarity can impair cognitive functions, making it challenging to interpret social cues and adapt behaviors appropriately.Or that The novelty of a new culture triggers the brain's reward system, releasing dopamine, which can enhance our motivation to engage and learn in the new environment.I didn’t!Adaptation begins with undertaking activities that put our chemicals in balance!Assessment plays a central role in adaptationI am not going to pass up the opportunity to talk about assessments.  Paula has taken what she has learned and created the myGiide assessment, which measures cultural value and cultural agility competencies providing users with insights into their cultural values and biases, allowing for comparative analysis with other cultures and identifying potential areas of conflict or misunderstanding.  The assessment is free.  I took it and found the insights it provided me super valuable.myGiide is also an example of the role technology plays in cross-cultural adjustmentThe impact of technology on cultural adaptation may surprise you.I went into our conversation thinking Paula would gush about how technology has made adapting to other cultures much easier. But I was wrong!*  Technology is a "double-edged sword" for cultural adaptation.  It allows people to stay connected to home, potentially reducing feelings of isolation.  However, overreliance on home connections can hinder full immersion and engagement with the local environment.* Technology should not replace real-world experiences and interactions.  It should be used as a tool for learning and support. Excessive use of social media and video calls can become a "crutch" that impedes adjustment to the new cultural context. Direct engagement with the host culture remains crucial for successful adaptation because cultural differences are "exacerbated" in virtual environments due to the lack of in-person cuesBusinesses must step up to help their expats be successfulWhen it comes to expat assignments, businesses should:* Create a pipeline of culturally agile professionals through strategic talent management practices, including the recruitment, selection, and development of employees with the ability to work effectively across cultures.* Assess bench strength in cultural competencies, not just technical skills, for roles that involve international or multicultural work.* Use assessments to identify employees who are ready for international assignments or have the potential to develop cultural agility.* Provide targeted support for employees on international assignments, including in-country cultural coaching and AI-powered tools like the chatbot in the MyGuide platform.This episode’s Take it or Leave it? articles are:"Global Mobility in 2024: Trends and Predictions"* Summary: This vendor-published article outlines the changing landscape of global mobility, including shorter assignments, digital nomads, and the rise of technology platforms for managing mobility. Paula critiques the "nothing new here" approach, emphasizing the need for deeper cultural training."Thriving, Not Just Surviving: How Targeted Therapy Makes All the Difference for Expats"* Summary: This article explores the psychological stress faced by expats and the importance of targeted therapy. Paula reflects on her early research into expat mental health, reinforcing the need for specialized support to help individuals adapt to new cultural environments. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

"Hiring is broken not because of a lack of tools, but because we lack a disciplined, strategic approach. Technology only works when we have the right foundation."–Linda Brenner* In this episode of Psych Tech @ Work, I welcome my long time friend and collaborator Linda Brenner for some straight talk about the challenges facing TA leaders in the age of talent shortages, AI, and general global insanity.* This conversation serves as a roadmap for talent acquisition leaders looking to rethink their strategies, streamline their processes, and make smarter use of technology.* Linda explains why many companies struggle to attract and retain top talent despite using sophisticated AI and other technology solutions. We delve into the importance of aligning TA strategies with business goals, building clear processes, and minimizing reliance on outdated ATS systems that often hinder rather than help hiring efforts.We discuss the complexities of AI in recruitment, including video interview assessments and chatbots, and Linda highlights the need for human oversight in areas like candidate engagement and relationship building. Topics Covered:Talent Acquisition Audits:* Linda describes her process for auditing talent acquisition, from evaluating business goals to diving deep into data, processes, and technology use.* Common issues found in TA audits, including lack of alignment, undefined processes, and inconsistent use of ATS systems.AI and Video Interviews: * How AI is currently used in TA and Linda’s views on the limitations and potential pitfalls, particularly around legal considerations and candidate engagement.Skills-Based Hiring Misconceptions:* The difference between true skills-based hiring and keyword matching.* Why many organizations aren’t yet ready to execute skills-based hiring effectively due to foundational issues in their processes and technology.Takeaways:Foundation First, Tools Second: AI and advanced tools can’t solve underlying issues. Establishing clear, consistent processes aligned with business goals is essential before adding new technology.Strategy over tactics:  TA leaders should build a strategy that accounts for different types of roles and aligns with company growth goals, instead of relying solely on quick fixes.Consider the Candidate Experience: Long, inefficient hiring processes lead to drop-offs and high turnover. Streamline processes with candidate engagement in mind.AI as a Support Tool, Not a Solution: Use AI to support administrative tasks and data collection but maintain human oversight, especially in high-stakes areas like interviews and candidate assessment.This epsiode’s "Take it or Leave it" Articles1. AI-Enabled Work Ethic" by Charles HandlerIn this article, I explore whether generative AI is an asset or liability for job candidates and employers. We discuss the ethical considerations around candidates using AI tools in applications and how companies could structure policies to evaluate AI competency fairly.   2. The Future of Talent Acquisition and AI" from ForbesThis article suggests that companies not using AI in talent acquisition will fall behind. Linda and I debate this, with Linda arguing that AI should only be implemented after TA processes are clearly defined and aligned with business objectives.   This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

"We’re generating assessments faster than ever, but our real test is ensuring that these tools are fair and reliable across diverse candidate groups."–Louis HickmanIn this episode I welcome my friend, super dad, and ex- professional wrestler Louis Hickman for a killer conversation about the ins and outs of using LLMs to create and score assessments.Louis is a professor at Virginia Tech specializing in research on AI and large language models in assessment and hiring processes.  He knows a thing or two about this stuff and we waste no time tackling some really great topics centering around the cutting edge of research and practice on the subject of LLMs and assessments.This is a must listen episode for anyone developing, or considering developing, LLM based assessments. Or anyone who wants to educate themselves about how LLMs behave when asked to be I/O psychologists.Topics Covered:* LLMs in Assessment Center Role-Plays:* Using LLMs to simulate realistic role-play scenarios for assessments, with the challenge of ensuring consistent, replicable candidate experiences.* Evaluating Open-Ended Text with LLMs:* How LLMs score open-ended responses and the observed biases, especially when diversity prompts only partially reduce disparities.* Consistency in AI Scoring:* Ensuring LLMs apply scoring criteria consistently across diverse candidates and settings.* Applicant Reactions to AI Interviews:* How candidates perceive AI-driven interviews, with many expressing discomfort due to the perceived inability to influence AI decisions compared to human interactions.* Predicting Responses to Assessment Items:* The potential for LLMs to predict candidate responses without actual data, though accuracy remains limited by model training and inherent biases.* Impact on Academic Research:* LLMs' influence on research publications, with concerns over AI tools favoring self-generated content and potentially amplifying biases in academic discourse.Listen to the episode to hear the skinny on these topics and more!And of course we have fun with this episode’s “Take it or Leave it” articles.Article 1 “The Impact of Generative AI on Labor Market Matching.” An MIT Exploration of Generative AI”, explores the use of LLMs on matching job seekers and employers.Article 2Four Singularities for Research: The Rise of AI is Creating Both Crisis and OpportunityIn this article from Ethan Mollick’s Substack blog One Useful Thing discusses the positive and negative impact of LLMs on academic research. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

Meghan: "Skills are the driver of the future of work. Without validation, there’s no trust, and without trust, you can’t make decisions based on skills."In this episode of Psych Tech @ Work I welcome my new friend Meghan Raftery who is an Education Designer and skills validation expert who works at Educational Design Lab - a community that is dedicated to doing skills based hiring the right way by ensuring that skills are verified and portable across the world of education and work.  Meghan offers a fresh perspective on skills-based hiring, microcredentialing, and how education and work can align more effectively to prepare students and workers for the future. Meghan shares her experience transitioning from K-12 education to the world of workforce development and dedicating her efforts to focusing on how to validate skills in a measurable, trustworthy way. She explains how microcredentialing can break down complex skills into smaller, demonstrable pieces that people can stack together over time to build toward larger career goals.In our conversation Meghan highlights the importance of aligning educational outcomes with workplace needs, particularly through skills validation systems that help employers trust the skills applicants bring to the table. She shares how her team uses human-centered design to create pathways for "STARS" (Skilled Through Alternative Routes) and provides practical insights into how employers can leverage these tools to open doors for candidates who may not have traditional degrees but possess the skills needed for success.Topics Covered:* Microcredentialing and Skills Validation:* Defining microcredentials and how they differ from traditional credentials by breaking down skills into smaller, measurable units.* The concept of stackable credentials, where individuals can build a portfolio of verified skills over time.* Human-Centered Design in Education:* The importance of involving the people closest to the problem in designing solutions for skills validation.* How Education Design Lab connects learners, educational institutions, and employers to design skills validation systems that work for all stakeholders.* Skills-Based Hiring and Employer Engagement:* Challenges employers face in trusting non-traditional credentials.* How companies can work with organizations like Education Design Lab to ensure they receive reliable, validated skills signals from job applicants.Takeaways:* Trust Through Validation: For skills-based hiring to succeed, employers need validated evidence of skills, not just resumes or self-assertions.* Microcredentials Build Careers: Breaking down skills into smaller, stackable microcredentials allows learners to build toward larger career goals in a personalized way.* Human-Centered Design: Involving those closest to the problem—whether students, job seekers, or employers—ensures that the solutions developed are relevant and effective.* Collaboration Is Key: Employers, educators, and governments must collaborate to build systems that bridge the gap between education and the workforce, ensuring skills are verified and trusted. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

"The real challenge isn't just defining skills, but creating a system where hiring criteria and performance criteria align—where your hiring approach is integrated into your company’s everyday operations."—Matthias SchmeisserSummary:In this episode of "Psych Tech @ Work," I am joined by Matthias Schmeisser, a talent acquisition leader from Berlin Germany who is passionate about skills based hiring.  Much of our conversation is focused on sharing Matthias’ experience on the path to transforming his company's talent acquisition approach by implementing a skill-based system that ensures alignment between hiring and performance criteria. Matthias highlights the importance of creating a skill-led organization, where every role is assessed and hired based on well-defined skills rather than previous experience or degrees. This episode is a must listen for anyone who is interested in executing a skills based hiring process in their organization.Topics Covered:* Skills-Based Hiring:* Moving away from resumes and focusing on validated, functional, and core skills.* Designing a skill-based career framework that integrates hiring and performance management* Bias Reduction in Hiring:* The pitfalls of "pedigree recruiting" and years of experience as a performance proxy.* How skill-based hiring helps reduce bias and increases the quality of talent.* The Role of Technology:* Leveraging tech tools to assess both functional and social skills while enhancing decision-making.* Using interview intelligence tools to improve interviewer training and ensure consistency in the assessment process.Takeaways:* Replace Resumes with Skills: Resumes introduce bias into the hiring process. Focus on specific, validated skills to make more objective hiring decisions.* Align Hiring and Performance Criteria: Create a consistent framework where the skills used in hiring are the same as those used to assess performance, ensuring seamless integration across the employee lifecycle.* Use Technology Thoughtfully: Tools like interview intelligence and skill assessments can help make the hiring process more efficient and less biased while providing meaningful data to inform decision-making.* Start Small: Implement skills-based hiring on a smaller scale before scaling up. Prove the model works by piloting it with key roles and using the results to drive broader adoption.Articles Discussed in the "Take it or Leave it" Segment:Matthias and I review two articles about tech and skills based hiring and share our takes.Article 1: Problems with “Botshit”- what does this mean for recruiting?* Summary: This article from Business Insider explores the frustrations caused by AI chatbots in customer service. Matthias and Charles discuss the limitations of bots in replicating human interaction and the importance of maintaining quality control when using AI in customer-facing roles.Article 2:  The realities of connecting skills based hiring and education- new infrastructure is needed* Summary: A Forbes article discussing the disconnect between the education system and the workplace, particularly regarding how skills-based hiring may render traditional degrees less relevant. Matthias and Charles debate the need for both higher education and skills verification, particularly in highly specialized fields like medicine. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com

"In the absence of trust, people will disengage. No amount of technology or process can replace the human need for belief and belonging."-Julian StoddThis episode is a must listen for those looking to expand their ideas about leadership, technology, and the psychology of work!In this episode of "Psych Tech @ Work," I welcome Julian Stodd, founder of Sea Salt Learning and prolific author whose work challenges conventional views on leadership, work, and technology, by looking at them through new paradigms.  Our conversation was refreshing because Julian offered thoughtful reframing of my ideas about psychology in the workplace that are worth noting.    In our conversation Julian reframes the way we think about the evolving workplace, focusing on the shift from traditional hierarchical structures to social leadership and distributed power. His perspectives offer a compelling critique of the conventional social contract between organizations and employees, arguing that this contract has been fundamentally broken by modern work dynamics.Julian highlights the role of technology, particularly AI, as a tool that both amplifies and disrupts traditional power dynamics within organizations. He also emphasizes the need for organizations to adapt, not just by automating tasks but by fostering trust, belief, and a sense of belonging to truly engage employees. This conversation is a powerful reminder that organizations must evolve beyond transactional relationships and embrace the social elements that drive real engagement and productivity. Throughout the episode, Julian emphasized the critical balance between formal organizational structures and the informal, social dynamics that truly drive engagement and innovation. He suggested that many organizations over-rely on formal systems—hierarchies, policies, and processes—while underestimating the power of social structures, such as networks of trust, influence, and collaboration.Julian repeatedly showed me a new way to look at my ideas about the psychology of the workplace.  For instance:The Traditional Leadership Model:* I Mention: I spoke about the role of leaders in providing clear direction and overseeing teams to ensure productivity.* Julian’s Reframe: Julian challenged this conventional view, arguing that leadership in the modern era should be about social authority rather than formal hierarchy. He explained that leadership is increasingly granted by the community based on trust and belief, not just a title or position, and that successful leaders must earn this trust by engaging meaningfully with their teams.The Psychological Contract Between Employers and Employees:* I Mention: The importance of the traditional idea of the psychological contract as a way to understand the employer-employee relationship, where employees trade their time and skills for compensation and job security.* Julian’s Reframe: Julian reframed this concept by stating that the traditional social contract has been broken. He argued that organizations need to move beyond seeing employees as resources or commodities. Instead, they should recognize that people are investing their belief and engagement in return for trust, growth, and belonging. Julian emphasized that organizations must rethink this relationship to thrive in the modern, social age.The Importance of Individual Differences:* I mention: The importance of the concept of individual differences, focusing on the traditional scientific approach that measures and assesses traits like personality, intelligence, and abilities to predict workplace behaviors and outcomes.* Julian’s Reframe: Julian suggested a shift away from solely focusing on the science of individual differences as fixed traits to considering individuals as dynamic and adaptable within social systems. He argued that while the science of individual differences is important, it often overlooks the relational and contextual factors that influence behavior. Julian emphasized that people are shaped by their environment, relationships, and the social dynamics they are part of. He proposed that instead of just measuring traits in isolation, organizations should focus on understanding how individuals interact with the system around them and how they can grow and evolve within that system."Take it or Leave it":  Julian and I give our opinions on articles that suggest a declining need for human workers in the workplace of the future.* "AI-Powered Companies with No Employees Coming Soon"* Summary: This article from Sifted discusses the rise of fully autonomous companies that leverage AI agents to run without employees. While the article presents a futuristic view of e-commerce and automation, Julian and Charles critique its narrow focus and overhyped narrative, emphasizing that while AI may automate some functions, people will remain central to innovation and decision-making.* "The Rise of Autonomous Enterprises"Summary: This article from HFS explores how data-driven decision-making and automation are shaping the future of organizations. Julian and Charles discuss the potential for organizations to become more efficient through data governance and AI, but caution that organizations still need human judgment and emotional engagement to make meaningful decisions. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit charleshandler.substack.com