Overtired

Jay Miller joins Brett and Jeff to talk mental health, espresso machines, and, of course, our picks for Grapptitude this week. Sponsor Show Links Internal Family Systems No Bad Parts Prince – Discog Dive Living Colour Cult of Personality Curio Arc Browser Synology DS App/Synology Routers Sublime Text VS Code Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript More Mental Health, But With Jay Miller This Time [00:00:00] Jay: Hey all you cool cats, parakeets, llamas, and alpacas, you’re listening to Overtired. Uh, I am your overtaking host, Jay Miller, and with me are my beautiful co host Jeff Severance Gunsel, and the mad genius of the internet himself, Brett Terpstra. [00:00:19] Jeff: How did you get ahold of our demographic, uh, report? [00:00:22] Jay: Oh, I mean, you know, if you listen to one podcast, you listen to all of [00:00:25] Jeff: Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. Hi, Jay. [00:00:29] Jay: Hey! [00:00:30] Jeff: And we do not have Christina here today, although we’re committed to doing this exact same guest lineup with Christina sometime down the [00:00:38] Brett: we will repeat this, um, and apologies to our regular listeners, we took, we took some unintended time off, um, life got in the way, but we also weren’t beholden to any sponsors at the time, so we gave ourselves a break, and, and literally [00:01:00] took a break, so [00:01:01] Jeff: Which was lovely for me, because I came back from a family trip to Egypt and Kenya, and then had a colonoscopy, and then had oral surgery, and then got sick. And so, it’s awesome to have a break in that context. [00:01:12] Brett: that sounds, that sounds like it was a much needed break. [00:01:15] Jay: I was jealous when you said Kenya and Egypt, and then you jumped straight into colonoscopy, and I was like, well, [00:01:22] Jeff: what? I deliberately scheduled it for the week I got back, because I’m like, I’m gonna be so out of it anyhow that I might as well just hit myself with all the stuff. Um, and I did. Yeah. Great. [00:01:34] Brett: I haven’t, I, so yesterday I had two root canals and two crowns. [00:01:39] Jeff: what, yesterday you had two root canals? What’s going on with that? [00:01:44] Brett: well, [00:01:44] Jeff: that a thing? [00:01:46] Brett: yes, apparently so, because it happened to me, um, I had, I had a filling fallout in a back molar and I, I scheduled like, it, it wasn’t hurting me, so the dentist like scheduled me a couple months [00:02:00] out, and in the meantime, decay started happening between the broken filling and the tooth next to it, so I had this like, spot of decay that covered two teeth. [00:02:10] Brett: And in order to fill it, they would have had to drill into the nerves, which is, I guess, when you do a root canal. And so I had a bunch of scans done. I even got a second opinion because that sounded excessive to me. Um, but they’re like, yep, you’re going to need two root canals and then you’ll have to crown them and it’s going to cost you about five grand. [00:02:32] Brett: And so, and then, so I went in to have it done and I had a brand new dentist that I had never seen before and he gave me a total of 13 shots of Novocaine and it didn’t take. It didn’t take. He would start drilling and I would scream. Like, it did nothing to me. And I blame a combination of hallucinogens and Vyvanse.[00:03:00] [00:03:00] Jeff: I’m serious, I’ve learned that because I’m a hard one to get to and I finally found a dentist who’s like, well, here’s what I had to do to make it work, he calls it like the, Winer esque it technique, and uh, I think the needle pretty much went through my cheek. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think the needle went through my cheek, literally I think it did, but, but it was the first time it was ever perfect on the second try. [00:03:20] Brett: I, yeah, it, it did not take, it did not stick. So yesterday I didn’t take any Vyvanse or any of my other medicinal, uh, drugs. And, um, they gave me a, uh, oral sedative that put me in like a semi conscious state. [00:03:40] Jeff: sedative. [00:03:42] Brett: Like you, they like, they grounded up and put it under my tongue and like [00:03:47] Jeff: is this dentist? [00:03:49] Brett: let it, I let it dissolve. [00:03:51] Brett: And then I went into this like very woozy trance-like state, and I was like [00:04:00] aware of what they were doing, but none of it hurt. And, and I had like memory loss when I came out of [00:04:07] Jeff: you, have you yelped this guy? Cause, [00:04:11] Jay: where you at? [00:04:12] Jeff: yeah, come on. [00:04:13] Brett: basically, basically they’re [00:04:15] Jeff: no sponsors. [00:04:17] Brett: If, uh, if, uh, if Novocaine doesn’t take, we have to do… It’s basically somewhere in between Novocaine and, like, IV type. Anesthesia, and so it’s like, uh, a midway anesthesia that doesn’t require any needles, which I assume also doesn’t require any special licensing. [00:04:38] Jeff: Welcome to the dental health corner. Ah, can I just say, can I just say at the end of this, can I say at the end of this, my cousin who lives out in the suburbs, um, I went to visit him for the first time ever and realized he’s in the scary suburbs, like the, like, um, I, I drove by a house first that had like a giant sign that said, um, that said taxidermy outside. [00:04:59] Jeff: And [00:05:00] apparently sometimes there are bears curing out there. And then next to him was a yard that had recently inflated balloons that are apparently refreshed and like a big sculpture of an, of a green alien and all this stuff. And then I got to his house. And I’m like, what’s the deal with those two? Like, I was hoping they’re, they’re friends or whatever. [00:05:18] Jeff: He’s like, Oh, they’re totally friends. He’s like, but you know, I was, I, he had two teeth pulled because of an infection in the front of his mouth and he was in so much pain and he was talking to the neighbor with the aliens and the neighbor offered him heroin. And I told him, I said, like, I mean, which makes sense, right? [00:05:32] Jeff: In a certain way, I guess. I’ve never used heroin, but here’s the thing. The taxidermy guy, it’s rumored, goes out in his backyard with night vision goggles and his AR 15, and in the night, and apparently with a silencer, which I don’t think is a thing for everybody, and shoots deer. And I told my cousin, I’m like, you know, half of our family won’t come to the city, won’t come to Minneapolis anymore, ever since like the uprising and the police decided to just say, fuck all of you. [00:05:58] Jeff: And I’m like, this [00:06:00] is scary. Like, my neighborhood is not scary. Anyway. [00:06:04] Jay: I thought it was weird, we just moved cross country, and we moved to like, We’re on the city, like, border between one town and the next, and the next town over, uh, it was interesting when people were like, Oh, hey, you’re moving to the place where it’s illegal to not own a firearm. [00:06:22] Jeff: Right, right. [00:06:23] Jay: I had to like, I had to like, pause and think about that for a second. [00:06:26] Jay: I was like, wait a minute, you said not? Like, yeah, not, you have, you have to be back, like, Open carry permits, like, Happy quinceañera, here’s a Glock, like, I don’t, [00:06:39] Jeff: Oh, that’s great. Well, um, how’s that going for you? [00:06:42] Jay: You know, guns aside, I guess, um, You know, it’s, it’s been good. Um, I, I guess for, for some context, I’ve moved to the Atlanta area. Um, my family lives about two hours South of Atlanta. The other half of my family lives, uh, [00:07:00] two hours North of Atlanta. And then like some weird third contingency lives on the Southeast of us. [00:07:06] Jay: So it’s. It’s kind of nice being close enough to family that like, they can’t just come in when they want to, but they can still show up. Like, they can, you know, call and be like, hey, what are you doing this weekend? Let’s, you know, let’s hang out. Like, that’s been pretty cool. Um, [00:07:23] Jeff: And you moved into the Atlanta area from where? [00:07:25] Jay: San Diego. [00:07:26] Jeff: Whoa, San Diego. Wow. [00:07:28] Jay: the land, I mean, I paid taxes for no rain and it rained like, For the first three months this year, I knew it was time to go. [00:07:34] Jeff: Yeah, San Diego, and I haven’t been there since the 90s, but it was like the land of the peacoat back then, like the navy, like, long blue coat. [00:07:41] Jay: It’s, it still is. [00:07:42] Jeff: I think I got a peacoat there, actually. [00:07:44] Jay: I mean, that’s, that’s how I got there was through the Marine Corps. I got stationed there and my wife’s from LA and we were just like, this is nice. We’ll just stay here and do that thing for a little bit. [00:07:53] Jeff: I love it. [00:07:54] Jay: But all in all, I mean, the weather’s nice. We have AC for the first time, you know, I feel like people [00:08:00] really underestimate the power of central air, like it’s life changing. [00:08:05] Jeff: is life [00:08:06] Jay: My electric bill is probably gonna be life changing too when I get it, [00:08:09] Jeff: It, yes. [00:08:10] Jay: it is what it is. [00:08:11] Brett: I have one window unit to cool the entire house. [00:08:14] Jeff: Oh man. [00:08:15] Brett: we, we just don’t have, it would, it would take an entire retrofit to fit central air in here. So we have one window unit in my bedroom that cools the entire house. And it’s not ideal, but in Minnesota, in the summer, it’s a necessity. We survive. [00:08:34] Jeff: When I was a kid, my dad had a window unit just in his room, and the rest of the house was just like sweltering. And so I’d have to like sneak in there when he wasn’t in there and just like bring a book or something. It’s unfair, dad. Yeah. You could have put one in my room. There’s no reason you couldn’t have done that. [00:08:51] Mental Health Corner [00:08:51] Jeff: Anyway. Uh, hi! Let’s do our, so we’ve done Dental Health Corner. Yeah. Uh, that’s a great segue into Mental Health Corner, I can’t think of any other rhymes.[00:09:00] [00:09:00] Brett: I say we go with [00:09:01] Jeff: Compartmental Health Corner? Sorry, I’ll just stop. I’ll stop. I’ll stop. It’s dumb. [00:09:09] Brett: Well guess first. I know Jay has some stuff to talk about. [00:09:13] Jay’s Mental Health Corner [00:09:13] Jay: Ah, so there’s kind of like these, these like, two weird feelings, like again, the whole moving cross country, uprooting everything, spending tens of thousands of dollars to go from like, one time zone to another, cause… It sucks if you try to do it any cheaper than that. And then, like, and then still coming out okay has left me with this sense of like, have, did I finally make it? [00:09:41] Jay: Like, Am I in a position in, like, for the first time in, like, my family’s history where you can sit there and drop a bunch of money at one time and not be worried about what’s going to happen to you? Like, am I going to have to, like, donate plasma for the next year or something like that? And it’s like, I’m [00:10:00] good. [00:10:01] Jay: And that has been this weird eye opening, like, I’m bougie now, like, I am, I feel the, the middle class crust, like, hitting my skin, but there’s this other side of that, that, you know, I’m sure, I’m sure Brett In all of our fancy tech job glory, we keep hearing about all the AI stuff. And like, I’m not an AI skeptic. [00:10:28] Jay: I’m also not an AI evangelist. Like, [00:10:31] Brett: I read your last post on that. [00:10:33] Jay: yeah, like, I feel this constant tug from my employer to be like, you have to preach the gospel of AI. And I’m just like, I don’t want to do that. So now I’m like struggling with this depression of like everywhere I go, I just keep hearing it screamed in my ear and I’m like, no, I don’t want to listen. [00:10:51] Jay: I don’t want to listen to like, it’s like, but I also want to protect that level of financial security that I’ve reached [00:11:00] and what that’s brought me is. Uh, my favorite type of depression, uh, which is impulse buying mode, um, I just bought an espresso machine. [00:11:11] Jeff: Mmm. Mm [00:11:12] Brett: therapy. [00:11:12] Jeff: hmm. Well, you work in tech Wait, can I ask you, what’s the context that you are now facing the bougie situation that you’re describing? [00:11:21] Jay: I mean, it’s, it’s [00:11:22] Jeff: it a job that suddenly [00:11:24] Jay: uh, well, I got my, my bonus, um, and then I also had to sell a bunch of stock and that left me with like tens of thousands of dollars left over from the tens of thousands of dollars that I had and was like, whoa, wait, what’s happening? I thought. Everything was going to be miserable. [00:11:44] Jay: Like, I’m sure the IRS is going to slap me in the face later, but like, I don’t, for the moment, I’m just like, Hey, I can spend a thousand dollars on espresso machine stuff and Hey, I can buy baseball season tickets, you [00:12:00] know, for my favorite baseball team next year. And like, I can do all of this stuff that. As a kid, you’d have been like, Oh, hey, cool. I have a small cafe in my house now with beans from single origin farms from Ethiopia. Like I look in the mirror and I’m like, who is this person? I don’t, I don’t, I don’t recognize you over, you know, the sound of your smugness. [00:12:24] Brett: Did it work? Did you cure your depression? [00:12:28] Jay: Um, I have another 200 worth of stuff that I just ordered from Amazon. So, but I need it. The house is empty. I need to fill it. Like it’s, so it’s. It’s just that weird, it’s this very weird state of like, all of this could go away in a heartbeat if I refuse to not preach AI. But at the same time, like, I just don’t want to do it. [00:12:53] Jay: And like, that’s just the worst feeling ever. But also like, the constant [00:13:00] reminder of how good life is right now. And if you just like shut up, close your eyes, take your medicine and like do the thing you don’t want to do, you could probably ensure that for, you know, a few more years until the next thing comes up that you don’t want to do. [00:13:16] Brett: When I, when I left AOL Tech, it was because, like, things had gotten, like, it was, it was a very similar predicament. I was being asked to do things that I didn’t really want to do, and my passive income was such that I was making My salary, again, from like apps and, and blog sponsors and things like that. [00:13:42] Brett: And I thought I could live with half the money and just, you know, do my own thing and not have to, you know, for example, write posts about AI. Um, and it went very poorly for me. I would not recommend, I [00:14:00] would never recommend if you have a cushy corporate gig. You know, don’t sell your soul, but, but [00:14:09] Jay: would argue I’ve done that already. [00:14:11] Brett: but also don’t fail. [00:14:13] Brett: Yeah, [00:14:14] Jay: Yeah. And that’s kind of the interesting point is I feel like right now I’m mostly just Just verbally echoing, like, look, you, you want me in my element, like, you want me talking about the things that I, like, I’m, I’m building templates for like the, the Microsoft Learn ecosystem for all of the Python stuff and the end result is hopefully we’ll be managing. [00:14:41] Jay: 20 or 30 different examples using one repo, one code base. We make one update and put in like propagated out to all of our samples. Like this is some cool stuff that I’m doing. And then all of a sudden they’re like, yeah, we need you to present this to the executive leadership team, by the way. Is there any way you can [00:15:00] sprinkle some AI in there? [00:15:01] Jay: And [00:15:01] Jeff: Oh, that’s it. That’s the thing, huh? You gotta sprinkle it. You got to sprinkle it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So compulsive spending, but you have the money. Uh, is that what you’re saying or no? Is it like, I’m not trying to be flip about it. I’m, [00:15:17] Jay: it’s, you know, I’m, I’m a parent. I have a house that we just bought. That’s, you know, it was made in the nineties, which makes, I mean, that doesn’t sound like a long time ago, but apparently all the inspectors think like, Hey, you should probably tuck some money away for when water heaters decide to explode or something. [00:15:36] Jay: So like, there’s this moment of like. Responsible me, like always cautious of the next time that you’ll have nothing again, is like, you should really be putting all this money away and not touching any of it. And then I look and it’s like, yeah, but I don’t have the right color glasses to go with the other glasses in the cafe area. [00:15:58] Jay: So like, what, what do [00:16:00] you do? [00:16:02] Jeff: that’s awesome. So what did you do? [00:16:04] Jay: Uh, I mean, I bought [00:16:05] Jeff: got the right, yeah, yeah. You have to come correct. I mean. You’re around people. I don’t, I’ve never around people. [00:16:12] Jay: and, and to be fair, this is, this is stuff that I’ve looked at and I’ve said, like, I, I, yeah, right, I’m, I’m probably never going to have these things. And now it’s like I have them and I’m like, this is pretty cool. Like I’ve, I’m probably over caffeinated just, I’ve, I’ve had like seven espresso, like double espresso shots in the last, like, two days. [00:16:32] Jay: It’s, you know, it’s. It’s great and I’m learning a lot and I’m learning about things that I want to learn about. I’ve talked about taking like whiskey sommelier courses and like getting Glencairn, uh, you know, Glencairn glasses and things like that. And I understand that this is like. The utmost privileged stuff like people that I grew up with don’t like they’re like whiskey like like Jack Daniels [00:17:00] is like the Highest level of whiskey you can get for them. [00:17:03] Jay: Maybe some black label and they’re like, whoa [00:17:06] Jeff: Southern Comfort? [00:17:07] Jay: yeah, I mean so like when when you’re able to go and have these experiences when you’re able to go and like do stuff and and there’s really not Anyone in your immediate circle that you can kind of relate to or that you can, you know, talk to about these things and they go, Oh yeah, you know, I’ve totally run into that problem. [00:17:28] Jay: It feels so bad. Like it’s like one of the shittiest feelings ever where you’re just like, I under, like, I’ve become that person that people looked at and was like, Oh, I hate that guy. And you know, it’s, It’s a weird feeling, but I also understand it’s like I’m just getting the things that I’ve always wanted to get or that I’ve wanted to get for the past few years. [00:17:50] Jay: So it’s like, wow, I have, do I hate who I’ve become or who I’ve aspired to become? And honestly, I’d like, no, I’m still the same, like [00:18:00] radical, like. You can, you can’t see my love black people like you love black coffee sign, you know, behind me. But like, I still have that, like, I’m going to stand up for people. [00:18:10] Jay: I’m going to try to get them hired. I’m going to try to elevate their lifestyles, their careers and all that stuff. I’m still that same person. I’m just that person with a nice handbag. [00:18:19] Jeff: And that’s also the person, you’re also the person you want in that space. And if you can then also, because of that, get things that are beautiful to you, great. [00:18:29] Jay: yeah, [00:18:31] Brett: Yeah. No, it’s tough. I, um, I will say that. Like I grew up being very much an activist, being very much an anarchist. And when I started making money, um, I felt very out of place going to rallies. I felt out of place, um, going to activist meetings and I kind of stopped. Like I felt like. Oh, I’m not allowed, like, I’m not allowed to be an [00:19:00] activist anymore. [00:19:01] Brett: Um, and that’s been, that’s been years that I’ve, I’ve felt that way. I know what you’re talking about. [00:19:07] Jay: yeah. I mean, I think the, the, Not to prolong the discussion on it, but like one of the big reasons we moved to Atlanta was like, I’m, I’m in a biracial relationship. My daughter is mixed. We grew up in a, you know, she’s grown up to this point in the area that is predominantly white. And, um, you know, And it’s like, that’s, it’s cool. [00:19:29] Jay: She’s getting a multitude of cultures around her, but she’s not experiencing. Oh, I guess. Oh yeah. For the people who’d never met me. Hi, I’m Jay. I’m black. Um, that, that’s a thing. Some people can’t tell when I talk. Um, so like, I was like, you know, cool. We’re going to Atlanta. There’s like. A ton of black people here. [00:19:46] Jay: There’s a ton of successful, like, there’s the black culture here is different than any other place in the world, in my opinion. And then we enroll her into like a private preschool and it’s like, I don’t [00:20:00] mean granted that was all because. She wouldn’t be starting school this year in California. So, like, we got there, they’re like, Hey, school started last week, you gotta enroll your kid. [00:20:10] Jay: By the way, because of her age thing, she’s still in pre K, but it’s too late to sign up for pre K, so she’s gonna miss a year, but we wanted her to get friends. So then it’s like, well, there’s this, like, private school around the corner that you can send her to, and all of her friends will go to the same school for the next ten years, and you’re like, I guess we’re doing that, but in the end, I’m like, okay, great. [00:20:32] Jay: I’ve just taken her out of this like public school system and away from that culture, uh, in some ways that I, we moved here in part for her to experience. [00:20:41] Brett: Yeah. [00:20:42] Jeff: Well, I mean, I also, hearing you talk and thinking about some friends who’ve been in a similar position, I just feel like maybe we’re, this is oversimplifying, maybe we’re entering an era where wealth isn’t just for the assholes. Um, which is kind of nice, right? [00:20:56] Jay: Nice people can have nice [00:20:58] Jeff: Nice people can have nice things. Yeah. Cause I [00:21:00] grew up similar way. [00:21:00] Jeff: Like we did not like grew up in apartments and for the most part. And, um, you know, like tax refund time was when we spent money. Like my mom was just like, it’s coming. And, uh, [00:21:11] Jay: tax tax free weekends? [00:21:13] Jeff: And that’s when we would just like spend all the money. And then the rest of the year, it was fairly tight. And I’m also in a situation right now. [00:21:19] Jeff: I’m not making a bazillion dollars, but I’m definitely making more money than a kid with no high school diploma ever expected he would. Um, And, and have nice machines and have nice things in my house. And I really, I, I just, I relate to that so much. And there’s also a part of me that resonates, something you said resonates where it was like, I actually realized late, I’m like, Oh, we’re not like exactly middle class or like working the middle class anymore, or like somewhere in like middle upper, if you’re talking about class and I have been such a reflexive class person my whole life that it took me a minute to figure that out. [00:21:54] Jeff: And I was like, Hey, you should examine that. Like you just kind of let yourself kind of float into this [00:22:00] new tax bracket and, uh, and forgot to, um, revise some of your, some of your class reflexes. But anyway, I don’t know if that, I hope that didn’t feel like too far astray from what you’re [00:22:15] Jay: Nah, I think that hits the nail on the head, you know. [00:22:19] Jeff: Yeah. And another bit, which I, we talked about after my trip, but like, my wife is like a credit card miles hacker, like a genius. And we ended up in business class, my whole family. And that was like a serious thing. Because like, every time I board a plane, I’m like, these motherfuckers won’t even look me in the eye. [00:22:35] Jeff: And there I was sitting and I’m like, I’m just gonna look at my champagne glass. And I was like, wow, how quickly I became the other thing. And maybe it’s not quite so binary. [00:22:44] Jay: Oh, the, the previous Overtired episode where it was like, everyone has experienced business slash first class and I was like, this was me last year, this was me flying to Ireland last year, where they were like, Mr. Miller, would you like a glass of Prosecco? And I was like, I didn’t, I [00:23:00] didn’t tell you what my name was, I appreciate this. [00:23:07] Jeff: Yes, yes, [00:23:11] Brett: Okay. Anything else, Jay? [00:23:13] Jay: No, um, I’m tired of talking about myself now. [00:23:17] Brett: I understand. I [00:23:19] Jeff: says the podcaster. [00:23:22] Jeff’s Mental Health Corner [00:23:22] Brett: Uh, Jeff, you got a mental health coroner? [00:23:25] Jeff: Yeah, kind of, um, so I just mentioned I didn’t graduate from high school, and I was, I was two credits short, and I, I went to a really rich high school, um, We’re like, kids drove Mercedes and stuff, and I, I drove my beloved 1984, uh, Cutlass Sierra, Powder Blue, Bad Brain sticker on the back, uh, and, and like, uh, felt really alienated from that culture, because it was an alienating culture, um, and, uh, And so anyway, I didn’t graduate, um, and then I refused to, uh, find my way to the [00:24:00] paperwork, um, worked in a lot of warehouses and dishwashing until a mentor, like, pulled me into a whole new life that led to everything after that. [00:24:09] Jeff: But anyway, um, My 30th class reunion came up and I’ve, I’ve never gone to one. I don’t keep in touch with almost anybody. I made the mistake early Facebook days of letting some alums in. And then I realized you have to be a cold blooded killer about that. Um, and you have to not worry about the fact that they’re writing you and saying, what the fuck? [00:24:27] Jeff: I requested it, you know, you’re like, we weren’t friends. I, I do not want you in my world. Um, so I’ve had this like extremely sort of adversarial thing about that school, about my classmates. It’s, and it’s been, uh, something I’ve worked on hard in therapy because I was holding on so much anger. My wife was finally like, this doesn’t make exactly make sense. [00:24:46] Jeff: Cause you’re happy. You have a great life. Like, why does this thing still like live inside of you? So, so kind of white hot. So I started doing some work in therapy, which resulted in me. Considering my [00:25:00] 30th anniversary when an old friend, my friend, Laura, um, from high school was like, come on, we’ll be each other’s like emotional support people when she like laid out exactly the perfect thing that, and it’s what I’ve done at parties forever, which is, she’s like, we’re going to, we’re going to go to a corner table and we’re going to post up in that corner and we’re not going to mingle. [00:25:18] Jeff: Uh, we might make trips to the bar, uh, but then we’re going to be back in the corner and then we’re going to just hope for some surprises, some pleasant surprises, couple of people roll up. It feels good. That’s all we need. We go home, hopefully not Retraumatized, . And, uh, and so we did that. We actually recruited one other person into the, into the scheme. [00:25:36] Jeff: And, and I, I decided to go to this thing. Um, and, uh, when I got there, I had forgotten my ticket. I didn’t have a, a, a, a diploma and I was the only person without a name. Despite paying 60 fucking dollars to go to this thing, and this, this woman who had been a girl when we were in high school who was managing everything, and I remembered but didn’t remember me, she’s looking, Gunsel, Gunsel, Gunsel, doesn’t [00:26:00] remember me, she’s like, I’m so sorry, you know, I’m like, you know what, this is actually perfect. [00:26:03] Jeff: In my head, I’m like, I’m undocumented here. Like, I don’t have a diploma, I don’t have a ticket, I don’t have a name tag. I don’t look anything like I looked in high school because I had like a baby face with beautiful long hair. Um, and so I am basically like, I realized like there were years ago when I told someone the only way I want to go to my reunion is if I could be invisible and anonymous and sit in a corner and observe, right? [00:26:23] Jeff: And that’s exactly what happened. I went into a corner. I had no name tag. Nobody recognized me. Um, and I could just take it all in and then I could decide who I wished would be. at the table with me. And, and then my friend Laura would go and summons them. It was her idea. She’s like, who, who should we see? [00:26:42] Jeff: I’m like, go get Wilcox. So she brings this guy to the table. Or like, there was one guy, I didn’t even know who he was. I’m like, he looks very kind. Let’s bring him to the table. You know, and it was like, it was such an interesting way to do the, Reunion, which was otherwise really hot and people were super drunk and we had committed we’re just gonna sit here and drink San Pellegrino [00:27:00] all night long and sweat and, and bring some people over and that ended up being such a wonderful thing to me and, and the mental health part of this is like, you know, when something is traumatizing, which that school was to me, um, and to my friend and to the person we also pulled in, we all had this in common, um, Trauma, uh, exists in my head and in people I’ve talked to as like frozen pictures, right? [00:27:25] Jeff: Like, almost like a slideshow of pictures that never change. Um, and, and you’re looking at them and it’s flipping through the slideshow like over and over and over. And what this thing allowed me to do… was have new pictures that just kind of, I could even feel displacing the other pictures. So I had a new picture of myself, um, as like a person who like, despite all of my worry about being like lonely for the rest of my life when I was in high school or like not knowing how to get to the thing I felt like could be true about my life. [00:27:59] Jeff: [00:28:00] Um, and seeing all the other people that had been making the apparent right decisions that I had not quite made. I just thought, For me, it’s not going to be good. And, um. And it is good. And, and I got to sit there and just be present in that. Like I made a lot of, I did a lot of work on that before I went, like that day. [00:28:18] Jeff: I’m like, don’t go as the kid that hated these fuckers. Go as the like, man, which is something I still have a hard time applying to myself. Go as like the man who has a family who he loves, who loves him, who has a job that he loves, um, and is, and is appreciated at. And, um, yeah. Just go as that person and stay rooted as that person. [00:28:38] Jeff: And it worked. And, and afterwards, I just felt things falling away for days afterwards. I felt this like stuff falling away so much so that I was able to go into the Facebook group because I had been very anonymous at this thing. Right. I mean, I had to walk through people I remembered exactly, and I knew probably might’ve been a nice conversation, but I wasn’t there for it. [00:28:58] Jeff: I couldn’t do it. I had to be back [00:29:00] to the wall, see who comes up. And so, um, afterwards I was like, we had, we’ve lost 10. People in our class, um, a lot of women to cancer, uh, two of my friends to one alcohol related death, one an overdose, um, and I was really struck by that. And so, several days, or a couple days after this thing, I was still thinking about the people who had passed, and how like, this Facebook group for this class was just full of like, we should’ve rolled a J under the… [00:29:30] Jeff: Fucking bleachers, you know, it’s like, it’s just stupid shit. That was like, wait, we’re adults now. Do you remember that part of how we’ve 30 years has passed? Right. And you’re talking like when you were 18. Um, so I, I decided to like put myself out there and I, I created a post that basically just said like, Hey, I keep thinking about the people we’ve lost. [00:29:48] Jeff: Um, some of whom are friends, some of whom are people I just would have loved to seen at this reunion. How about we fill this thread with memories about these people, with pictures, maybe you want to address somebody directly, [00:30:00] like, maybe you just want to share a word that means something to you, but not to anybody else. [00:30:04] Jeff: And I started it by writing my own thing to the mother of a person who’d been a friend in high school who recently died, um, and I wrote directly to her because she was in this. Facebook group. Um, just as a message to her as like a little bit of witness from the shadows. Cause I’ve, I’ve, I’ve known mothers who have lost their children and that is a really, that is a special kind of grieving and loss that transcends almost anything. [00:30:30] Jeff: And there’s no word for it, right? You have a word for like a woman who’s lost her husband, but you don’t have a word for a mother who’s lost her child. Um, and so I just started with that. And then, man, That stuff just rolled in for, it still is, it’s like two weeks later and people are writing the most beautiful things. [00:30:46] Jeff: People that I thought of as not very thoughtful are writing the most thoughtful beautiful things, which is on me, right? Like, I didn’t think they were thoughtful. Um, and that too became just like part of like, I was like, I put myself out there. I was hiding in school. I wanted to be invisible, right? Like I hated my [00:31:00] body. [00:31:00] Jeff: I hated, I hated, uh, my presence. I was a big guy, like tall. And like, I felt like I was like, I had like body image issues that I don’t really understand now when I look back. Like whatever, it’s like, and uh, and so I put myself out there in a way I never wanted to in high school, and like, yeah, this beautiful thing happened. [00:31:16] Jeff: I’m like, okay, cool. I can sign out now and feel like I did the thing. [00:31:21] Jay: That feels very reminiscent to, um, you know, I’m, I’m kind of still, I’m, I’m removed enough from high school that it was like, I don’t ever want to see anyone from high school ever again, except for a few people. And it’s, it’s not, it’s more of just like, I don’t want to go back to where I was. when I was that age. [00:31:44] Jay: And so like you saying, you know, going there and bringing who you are now, not necessarily who you’re not trying to think about who you were back then was kind of interesting. And it makes, it makes me more think about the, the military side. Like, you know, I’m a Marine Corvette. It’s, it’ll [00:32:00] be 10 years this year, this coming month that I got out. [00:32:05] Jay: And there’s a part of me that’s like, Wow, like, I was brainwashed, you know, 15 years ago. Very different person, very different mindset, and I wonder how many of those people now are, you know, how have they grown? But then also, like, I know… I know of at least three people who aren’t there anymore or who, you know, just due to mental health issues that didn’t get looked at and didn’t, you know, they didn’t talk to somebody. [00:32:38] Jay: Um, and that’s something that I, you know, I take personally now when I talk to people who are veterans, I ask them, you know, straight up, just how’s your mental health going, um, because I don’t want to lose any more people like that. But I, I just think about high school and the military, both so much emotional, like trauma. [00:32:59] Jay: can [00:33:00] happen in those settings that I do think it’s hard to want to go back and, you know, do anything that reminds you of those times. But I do think that there might be some value kind of like you’re saying of like, Not looking at it as, this is how I was back then, but more of like, this is who I am now. [00:33:21] Jay: Which, I mean, of course, someone’s gonna hear me say something that I said when I was stupid and like, oh, now cancel J and like, you know, culture, culture nowadays, some people should be canceled for the things that they did when they were in high school and in the military. Uh, some people were just stupid. [00:33:35] Jeff: just stupid adolescents without fully developed brains. [00:33:38] Jay: it’s, it’s definitely hard to, you know, I, I can’t, there are definitely things that I did. I regret now that I think back to now like, oh wow, like I, I do hope no one ever, this isn’t an invitation to start going and digging through those crates. Like, please don’t. Um, but also like, [00:34:00] I think there might be some health in there too. [00:34:02] Jay: Like some, some healthy, um, benefits to it. [00:34:07] Jeff: Yeah. [00:34:07] Brett: Here’s, here’s what’s happened to me. Um, I went to my 20th high school reunion, um, mostly because I could show up in an Audi TT convertible and make everyone feel [00:34:22] Jeff: Alligator boots? [00:34:24] Brett: It didn’t, it didn’t matter. No one saw my car. Um, no one asked me like what I was doing, but the weird thing was. When I showed up, the girl who was handing out the nametags knew immediately who I was. [00:34:37] Brett: And I don’t remember many people from high school. And the whole night, like, girls were asking me to dance, guys were talking to me at the urinal, like jocks that I barely remembered were like, Hey Brett, what you been up to? And, and it was like, I realized that I was not the outcast I portrayed myself as. [00:34:59] Brett: Like, [00:35:00] I always felt completely alienated, and then I had a dinner more recently with my quote unquote best friends from high school, and immediately fell back into old patterns and immediately realized I didn’t matter to them. Like these were the people that I associated with, these were the people that were my crew, and they didn’t care. [00:35:26] Brett: How my life was going, they didn’t care. I, I barely got a word in edgewise. They all had a life together without me, and it felt exactly the way I felt all through high school. And it made me realize, holy shit, I was friends with the wrong people the whole time. And the people that I thought hated me actually thought I was great. [00:35:50] Brett: And the people that I thought were great actually hated me. [00:35:53] Jeff: did I hit myself? [00:35:55] Brett: Exactly. Exactly. [00:35:58] Jeff: I see. I’m the [00:36:00] one. [00:36:00] Brett: yeah. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I see. I’m the problem. It’s me. [00:36:04] Jeff: Oh, you did it. Nice job. [00:36:06] Jay: there’s this, there’s this weird thing that happens where like, maybe it’s just a podcaster problem, I guess. But like my parasocial relationships. That have kind of bloomed into actual relationships, like friendships are way healthier than the like people that I grew up with, like those friendships, like I’m going to give him his flowers since, since he’s on the pod with us, but like chatting with Brett for the first time when I was like this stupid kid that was super into productivity and stuff, but then also wanted to learn how to program and Brett was doing some really cool shit. [00:36:44] Jay: And I was like, I want to be like that when I grow up. And then, and then like actually like meeting Brett a few, like, was it, was it last year or was it the year before last at MaxTalk? [00:36:56] Brett: Mac sucked last year. Yeah. [00:36:58] Jay: Yeah. And it was like this moment where [00:37:00] like, we had talked and like, we had had conversations before, but it felt like it was like. [00:37:06] Jay: It’s a like 99% parasocial relationship and then just meeting and being like wow He really is as cool as he was like on the tin like it like it was it was is the the actual in print like the in presence was Exactly what I hoped for where that had not been the case for so many people in the past like and and I understand that kind of like you were saying it was I first learned of Brett, I was super like inbox zero productivity, like I want to meet all these people and I met so many of them and I was like, they’re all kind of douchebags. [00:37:48] Jay: Like, and I mean, granted, some of them are really cool, but there are a lot of them that I was just like, you were nowhere near as cool as I thought you were. And then [00:38:00] like, I met Brett and Brett was just like. What’s up? Nice to meet you. Like, like, [00:38:05] Jeff: Unpack, Unpack Nowhere Near is cool. Say more about cool, like, break that word down. [00:38:11] Jay: you, okay, [00:38:12] Jeff: Kind? [00:38:14] Jay: this, this is where I, uh, I self promote. Um, I do a show called Conduit. It’s, it’s for, it’s a productivity show for people who hate productivity shows. Um, it, it is. It’s the idea that we all suck at this. We all understand that we suck at this, and we’re just trying to see if we can make it like two weeks at a time. [00:38:34] Jay: It’s more about accountability, like, hey, did you, you survived the last two weeks. Good job. Let’s, let’s keep it moving. And I think the more, the deeper and deeper I tried to dive into, like, let’s actually be productive. Like, let’s have productive lifestyles. I understood how, like, physically unhealthy that was, how mentally unhealthy that was at times, and then also the people trying [00:39:00] to teach you how to do this, that’s their job. [00:39:04] Jay: That’s not, like, that’s not, like, they don’t understand. I worked at a help desk and people were like, yeah, you should only check your email, like, once a day, and I’m like, if I do that, I get fired. [00:39:14] Jeff: Yeah, exactly. [00:39:15] Jay: So, so being able to, like, have, again, someone like Brett who is like, me building these things is often due to me disregarding some responsibilities, but also, this is where I’m at at the moment and this stuff is really cool and I just want to keep building it, like. [00:39:37] Jay: I related to that, but then also I was like, okay, where’s, where’s the but, where’s the like, as he says, as he hops into like a Bentley and then drives off, you know, into the distance smoking a cigar or something. And it was like, that part never came. It was still the like, punk rocker, like, let’s, let’s just talk, let’s like nerd out and talk about building stuff, which I [00:40:00] mean, that’s, that’s what made Bunch so cool for me. [00:40:02] Jay: It was like, This was, this was a thing that like, Hey, I know the person that built this. And then it was like, Hey, what if, what if you did this? And then like three days later, it was like, thanks. You, you threw me into another rabbit hole, but now this feature [00:40:16] Jeff: Yes, yes, yes, [00:40:17] Brett: You have, you have both had that [00:40:19] Jeff: Yeah, we have. [00:40:22] Jay: It’s, it’s cool seeing features that I’m like, I think I asked for that. [00:40:26] Jeff: Right, right. Totally. I, my thing, Brett and I have talked about this, maybe even on the podcast with, I went through a similar thing with the productivity people. I didn’t meet a lot of them, but I realized at some point, like, I think you must be dishonest because I’ve never met anybody who. is committed or loves or gets fired up by various productivity tools who then doesn’t fall apart, um, inside of them, uh, every so [00:40:55] Jay: advocates do you know? [00:40:58] Jeff: And I, you know, like, cause to me, the [00:41:00] experience of, um, returning or like building systems, which mine always fall apart, it’s like the important thing for me, and this True with my mental health as well, it’s like that I call myself back and, and in the case of like productivity tools, that’s me calling myself back to those systems. [00:41:19] Jeff: And for me, it’s an indicator of how like healthy I am at that moment. So things really fall apart. But as long as I’m always calling myself back to these tools that I’ve built or some new tool, even if I get lost in it at that time, it’s actually like a really good, really good sign. Although I also have to know that I’m going to quit. [00:41:38] Jay: We have this goofy thing where like every. Once every quarter we do a systems check because people see productivity on the tin and they’re always like what apps are you using? We’re like, we don’t really want to talk about that stuff, but we, we appease people once every three months. And, uh, one of the things that we’ve done is we always give what we’re doing a [00:42:00] name. [00:42:00] Jay: And it’s always just something that we make up. And I always use artists that I’m listening to at the moment. Like the first one was like the Silksonic method cause Silksonic had just come out. Then it was like the, the JD, the JD Beck and Domi paradox or something like that. And then like. The Thundercat system, like all this, all this fun stuff. [00:42:21] Jay: And like, there was something about it because you knew that it was going to change. You knew that you were giving it permission to adapt and you were stating that by just renaming the thing every time. You’re like, yeah, it’s kind of similar to this thing, but like, it’s different because I’m doing this and this and this instead of this. [00:42:39] Jay: So it’s kind of like this weird jazz break. So that’s why it’s like Thundercat, you know, cause Thundercat does these cool breaks and then I do these cool breaks and like, cool. Like, and, and in the end it’s supposed to be silly. [00:42:52] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. [00:42:53] Jay: And I think that’s what, that’s what makes it like, that was the thing that I missed talking to, [00:43:00] you know, the, the business coat types that were just like, it’s always about ROI. [00:43:05] Jay: It’s all about lifestyle brand. It’s all about, it’s like all of these things. I’m like, I kind of just want to sit down with my espresso machine and like have fun and then look at my notebook and be like, do I have stuff to do today? Yeah. Okay. I guess I better do that [00:43:17] Jeff: Yeah. Right. Right? [00:43:19] Brett: I feel like someone needs to ask you what kind of espresso machine you got. [00:43:23] Jay: Uh, uh, Gaggia Classic Pro X, which is, I [00:43:27] Jeff: there was gonna be an X. There’s always an [00:43:29] Jay: yeah, it’s not the, I mean, it’s, it’s a 500 machine, uh, which in the world of espresso, people are like, oh, so you went to Walmart and [00:43:38] Jeff: Reasonable. Yeah. [00:43:39] Jay: it’s definitely, the thing I liked about it actually was that it’s, For espresso machines, it’s considered like the hacker’s espresso machine. [00:43:46] Jay: Like you have people who have like raspberry pies and arduinos attached to it for like temperature control. And like I had to replace springs to change my pressure output and I was like, yeah, this is, this is, this [00:44:00] is the right [00:44:00] Brett’s Mental Health Corner [00:44:00] Jeff: Mods. Brett, what’s your mental health corner check in? [00:44:05] Brett: speaking of, um, productivity people turning out to be as cool as they are in real life, um, I’ve met Berlin Man a couple of times and every time I’ve been blown away by how personable he is. And when I, I recently posted about kind of the CPTSD stuff I was going through and he reached out and called me on the phone and And it was, it was a great conversation and I fucking love Merlin. [00:44:36] Brett: He’s a, he’s a really good guy. Um, so, [00:44:40] Jay: scared Merlin. [00:44:42] Brett: oh yeah? [00:44:43] Jay: Yeah, we did a, I was in this podcast mentorship thing and they were like, do an episode on someone that you look up to. And I did one about Merlin and like, I messaged him and like relayed FM slack and was like, Hey. I don’t want to be weird, but like, I did this thing, like, [00:45:00] you don’t have to listen to it, it’s cool, but I’ve listened to a lot of your shows in the past, big inspiration, yadda yadda yadda, like, cool. [00:45:07] Jay: And then I, there was like this moment in like another episode where, um, he and Alex were talking about something and he was like, Should I listen to the thing? And I just, no, I was like, yeah, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve ruined any, uh, that first impression was terrible. I Merlin, if you hear this, I hope that we can, uh, one day be cool. [00:45:27] Brett: he’s a really good guy. I’m sure he would love you. Um, I have gotten into internal family systems. Have you guys heard of this? [00:45:37] Jeff: in it now. Yeah. It’s the root of my therapy. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:45:40] Brett: When I started with my new therapist and I told her about my religious trauma syndrome and, and my complex PTSD, she was like, we’re going to solve this with CBT, like cognitive behavioral therapy. [00:45:55] Brett: And, and I was like, okay, but I had read that CBT was the [00:46:00] wrong response to religious trauma syndrome. Um, but I didn’t have a better answer for her. And then a couple of people mentioned IFS, uh, Victor. [00:46:11] Brett: of the show, Victor Agreda, and, um, and my girlfriend had both, uh, pointed me towards IFS. So I bought the book, um, No Bad Parts. [00:46:23] Jeff: no bad parts. [00:46:24] Brett: Uh, by the guy who invented, uh, created IFS and I started reading it and immediately I was like, Oh my God, like this, this feels real. And it’s weird because it’s a little bit, the idea is that you have, um, A multitude of parts within you, some of which got frozen in time and are burdened with the idea of protecting you from whatever, at the point they were frozen, whatever they were protecting you from. [00:46:58] Brett: And it became [00:47:00] immediately obvious that there is a little kid in a three piece suit ready for Easter Sunday church who has a checklist of all the things that are going to send me to hell. And he has been doing his best to stop me from doing things that I grew up believing would send me to hell, but my adult self no longer believes that. [00:47:23] Brett: My adult self no longer believes it, but every time they come up, this kid tries to take like foreground and And tell me you can’t do this, you’ll burn in hell. Um, so he’s protecting me from death and hell. And, like, he was the first part that I discovered. And, and, like, the idea behind IFS is you, you talk to these parts. [00:47:48] Brett: And you thank them for their service. And you express gratitude and love and compassion. And you get them to let down their guard. And it seems… Like, it feels [00:48:00] to me, like, very woo, um, like the idea of talking to myself feels ridiculous, um, but I’m willing to try anything at this point, and, um, I honestly believe that IFS taps into you. [00:48:18] Brett: Like a very, like, like shadows on the wall understanding, a very platonic, what do you call something that’s Plato esque? Platonic? Um, like, [00:48:31] Jeff: it Plato esque. [00:48:32] Brett: Plato [00:48:32] Jeff: No one’s gonna beat you up for that [00:48:34] Brett: This idea that we have found a way to interact with a neuroscience that we don’t fully understand yet. Um, much like a lot of Freud’s, some of Freud’s, like theories were Proven to be neuroscience. [00:48:50] Brett: Oh, some of them were proven to be horribly [00:48:53] Jeff: were proven to be cocaine. [00:48:54] Brett: right? Um, and like, but like this idea that maybe this [00:49:00] IFS thing taps into something that we don’t understand from a neuroscience standpoint yet. Um, and maybe, maybe it’s a rudimentary way of accessing something a little bit more scientific. But for right now, it feels very real to me, and I’m actually making a lot of progress. [00:49:21] Brett: So I talked to my therapist about it, and she’s like, Yeah, I’ve done IFS. I, I, I think you might be on the right path. So instead of CBT, we’re going to approach my, my trauma with IFS and, and that feels more productive to me and I’m actually pretty excited about it. [00:49:41] Jeff: Yeah, and the part of IFS that helped me, which is actually exactly what helped me go to my reunion. Present is this idea, same thing about a part, like there’s a kid back there who is trying to protect himself from these people, um, because I wanted so bad just to [00:50:00] escape so I could start my life and there’s all kinds of other reasons I was protecting myself, but my therapist said something is like become like paradigmatic for me, like I’m always thinking about this, which is like, okay, so can you picture that kid right now? [00:50:12] Jeff: Right? Like, yeah, I can picture. Is there a way that you can Bring him forward into the future so that he can know, like, you’re safe from that now and whatever. And that idea of taking the parts and identifying them and then just being like, can you bring that one forward is like, that just, it hit me on such a deep level. [00:50:30] Brett: One of the things when you’re talking to your parts, one of the things you’re supposed to do is ask them how old they are and then tell them how old you are and the parts [00:50:41] Jeff: nice way to do that. [00:50:42] Brett: And the parts often act with surprise, like, holy shit, you made it to the age of 45, even though I’m stuck here at like six years [00:50:51] Jeff: Just so you know, six year old, I’m old as dirt now. [00:50:53] Brett: Yeah, right? Yeah, no, it’s been interesting. Speaking of high school though, I um, I [00:51:00] posted, I use my Facebook, if I’m gonna post random song lyrics, it’s to Facebook where I, I, it, I don’t know, I have a weird, a weird collection of friends, but I have always friended anyone from my high school who asks. I have always just accepted it, um, because I’ve realized that while I thought I might hate this person or I thought this person hated me, uh, the relationship might’ve been very different than I consciously believe it to have been. [00:51:32] Brett: Uh, so I posted just the line, not about to see your light. And. The kid, my first day when I moved to Winona, Minnesota, at the age of 12, um, I got pushed to my knees in the gravel by this kid, um, at the Winona Middle School. Uh, between the middle school and the library, he like shoved me down and I felt very… And [00:52:00] I developed a real hatred for this kid, um, who apparently doesn’t remember this incident at all. Um, but when I, when I wrote the line, not about to see your light, he responded with, um, if you want to find hell with me. And I was like, you are the last person that I expected to bond with over Danzig lyrics. [00:52:20] Brett: Like, I did not expect that. And, and like, in his mind, I think we were always cool. Uh, but in my mind, he was a horrible person who hated me and wanted to hurt me. And, and it’s just this weird… It’s, it’s weird being, being old enough to like look back on that stuff and maybe take it with a grain of salt and not feel as traumatized by it. [00:52:48] Brett: Anyway, [00:52:49] Jay: that that, uh, Casablanca quote of like, you know, but I think about you every day and it’s like, Oh, I’m sorry. I don’t think of you at all. [00:52:58] Brett: I love the, [00:53:00] in, uh, Leonard Cohen’s, um, Chelsea Hotel number two, when he’s like, that’s all I don’t think of you that often. Yeah. Um, anyway, we, we, this has been another mental health episode. We just filled up a full hour, [00:53:17] Jeff: Dental mental health. [00:53:18] Brett: dental mental health. Um, do you guys want to do, uh, Graftitude before we wrap up? [00:53:25] Jay: Sure. [00:53:27] Grapptitude [00:53:27] Brett: alright. Um, I’ll kick it off, is that cool? I, I believe I’ve picked this before, but it has been a forefront for me in the last couple weeks. Uh, Curio. Um, I don’t use it daily in my life, but when I have a project, I want to brainstorm and I want like all the tools necessary for brainstorming an idea. And in this case, uh, it does a really good job.[00:54:00] [00:54:00] Brett: If you save your Curio document to iCloud, you can share it with somebody and it does a really good job of handling stuff. So two people can share a document. Most recently, Elle and I started getting, started talking about getting, uh, partner tattoos, like couple’s tattoos. And, and we started brainstorming like, what would this be? [00:54:24] Brett: What would be meaningful? What would represent our partnership? What would, what would we not regret? You know, five years down the line and we started brainstorming and. In case you’re curious, what we ultimately decided, and we’re going to wait until some current, uh, upheaval is settled, but I have this brand that I did on my, [00:54:50] Jeff: see it. [00:54:51] Jay: It looks like the [00:54:51] Jeff: That’s okay, nobody can see it. Oh yeah, there we go. Looks like what? [00:54:54] Jay: It looks like the Debian logo. [00:54:55] Brett: it does, [00:54:56] Jeff: It’s a Debian brand. [00:54:57] Brett: it’s a spiral. I, I like, [00:55:00] I was in the midst of What was undiagnosed manic depression and, um, or I mean, bipolar depression. And, and I didn’t have any way out of it other than pain because I had just gotten out of rehab for the third time. I was clean and I didn’t have the drugs that had always medicated me. [00:55:22] Brett: Oh my God, this turned back into mental health corner. But I took [00:55:26] Jay: Skintle Health Corner. I [00:55:27] Brett: I [00:55:27] Jeff: oh! [00:55:28] Brett: I took a coat hanger and twisted it into a spiral, heated it up with a blowtorch, and just jammed it into my arm. And, and it worked. Like, it got me out of my head for a little while. And, and that took a while, but it healed. And to me, this brand on my arm represents… [00:55:48] Brett: Not only like the depth of despair, but also the healing and the transition out of it. And we talked about all kinds of different tattoos. I had elaborate designs where [00:56:00] a butterfly combined like an E and a B and And, like, none of it really struck home until Elle said, What if I got a white ink tattoo that matched your brand? [00:56:15] Brett: And I was like, holy shit, that would be, that’s like the most meaningful connection. So I could look at this brand and know that I wasn’t alone in it. And so we’re going to wait on it a bit. We’re going to get to a solid place before we really make a decision on it. But like, that was the end result and all thanks to Curio, my pick of the week. [00:56:41] Jay: That’s dope. Curio, use that as an ad and then sponsor, sponsor the podcast. [00:56:46] Jeff: Yeah. Jay, what do you got? Oh, sorry Brad, I [00:56:51] Brett: No, I was just going to say for anyone who doesn’t know Curio, it’s like, uh, an app where you, you have all these spaces that are like whiteboards and you can [00:57:00] drag images and emails and add text and outlines. And it has mind mapping built in and you can connect all of these things together. You can link between spaces and it has like a complete set of project management tools. [00:57:13] Brett: So you can add due dates to things and across multiple spaces and then get a list of like all of your to do items. Uh, between these spaces, it’s intensely, it’s extremely, uh, functional, like capable without feeling overwhelming, like you can just start using it. So that’s my, that’s my pitch for [00:57:35] Jeff: interrupt. And it is not the news app on Setapp [00:57:37] Brett: No, no, some, they stole that. [00:57:40] Jay: I knew, I knew I’d see, I was like, wait, is this the thing on setup? And I was like, oh wait, no, it’s different. [00:57:46] Jeff: Yeah. [00:57:47] Brett: Okay, Jay, what you got? [00:57:49] Jay: So has anyone promoted the Arc browser? [00:57:53] Brett: I don’t, yeah, [00:57:54] Jeff: Christina raised it. [00:57:56] Brett: Christina raised it and we had some guests [00:58:00] on at some point that was like a hundred percent into it. Like they had, I think it was Brian. Yeah, I think it was Brian had like, had like ditched all of their browsers for it, but tell us what you love and then I’ll tell you what I think. [00:58:15] Jay: It is my primary browser. I can’t say that I’ve ditched all other browsers. Like, I work for a company that makes a browser. I kind of have to use that one from time to time. Um, the thing about Arc Browser that I like is, never been the type, like, I have a pinboard account. Stuff gets stored there. I’d never go back to it. [00:58:38] Jay: Um, that’s just not where things go if I want to retrieve them in the future. That’s just where things go because I decided that they should go in there. It’s like a hall of fame for… [00:58:49] Brett: a, it’s a way to get them off your mind and feel, and feel like they’re secure. So you can have the whole mind like, mind like water, get things done kind of mentality. Yeah. [00:58:59] Jay: [00:59:00] exactly. Arc Browser is now the place where like, oh, I’m gonna need this again, like, and that, that’s what made it relevant for me because when I do things like podcasts, I know that there are like three or four things that I open and I, I open them with Bunch But I’m also going back and forth between them as I’m using them. [00:59:19] Jay: And the thing that, that made Arc Browser kind of stand out was like, for instance, we’re recording this right now in the browser. I have that browser window open. I have the notes side by side, like inside of a single window, which is absolutely like phenomenal. So I can do the same thing with like Discord, where I have You know, the Discord for our, for Conduit, plus our notes, um, unfortunately, I don’t do Zoom through the, well, probably, fortunately, I don’t do Zoom through the browser, so, like, that’s not in there, too, but it could be, um, but I, I do that with, with a lot of things now. [00:59:52] Jay: Google Meeting meets, like, you know, when people want to do stuff like that. I can, I can be working on a thing and have all of these things [01:00:00] spun up. Um, I did have a second one if, if Arc Browser, like Arc Browser is cool and I wanted to shout it out only because it’s publicly available [01:00:08] Brett: Yeah. I was going to say, like, it just became like widely publicly available. Give people some description of why they would want to use ARC. [01:00:17] Jay: Um, Arc, uh, I don’t think it, is it Mac only? Or [01:00:22] Brett: I don’t know. [01:00:23] Jay: Yeah, it is. I use it on a Mac, so. [01:00:26] Jeff: OS 12 and later. [01:00:27] Jay: Okay, so yeah, it’s a Mac only system. It is a browser that feels like a native experience. It has these really cool ideas of spaces where you can have a space dedicated to different things. Um, I will say, if you have ADHD, that’s not gonna last. [01:00:43] Jay: You’re just gonna throw stuff, and when one space gets too full, you just open up a new one and just keep going. Um, [01:00:49] Brett: but at the end of like by default, every 12 hours, um, all these open tabs you have get archived [01:00:57] Jay: they get [01:00:57] Jeff: Ooh. [01:00:58] Brett: when you open it up in the [01:01:00] morning, you, you’re left with your pin tabs, ones that you have consciously said, I’m going to need this again, and everything else just gets shuffled off, out of your way. [01:01:10] Jay: And, because it has a little command bar, you can actually go back to archived tabs. So if you just start typing, it’s going to be like, yo, you archived this. [01:01:18] Brett: Yeah. And so command T, instead of command T, uh, just opening a new tab, command T actually brings up a palette where you can easily navigate through all of the options, all of the commands and all of your open tabs. [01:01:32] Jay: Exactly. [01:01:33] Jeff: Wow. [01:01:35] Jay: So, yeah, that was, I mean, I just, like when I started using it, it was kind of like this, like, okay, that’s not going to be supported. It’s still in beta. I’m sure there’s going to be bugs. And like, for some reason, like I just never stopped using it, which to me is like a, I mean, like that was like me and DuckDuckGo, like. [01:01:54] Jay: Oh, I’m going to try this thing. And then I just never stopped trying it. And to me, that’s [01:02:00] like the indicator of an app that, that has kind of made its way into my system. [01:02:05] Brett: Totally. Yeah. [01:02:07] Jeff: That’s awesome. [01:02:08] Brett: You had it. [01:02:09] Jeff: just downloaded and signed up. [01:02:12] Brett: You have a second one? You want to throw in a second one? [01:02:14] Jay: The other one, only because it’s so weird, um, the Synology DS app, which. Like, I just bought Synology routers, and [01:02:26] Jeff: Oh, you got the routers. [01:02:28] Jay: the routers are so good, but the web interface for, you know, all the routing stuff feels very much like its own little ecosystem based on the Synology operating system, which is cool, but then, like, to be able to Look at all this stuff on my two routers that I have. [01:02:46] Jay: I have the 66, 000 AX and then the 5600 AX thing, um, and I have them in mesh mode, so, uh, when we moved, I was, I moved into an area that has fiber [01:03:00] and like, that was just exciting, but like, The thing that really got me was that you can actually set up a VPN on the router itself, which is great if you want to spoof like your location and have it spoof across all of the devices in the house so that, you know, all of a sudden you’re in Canada and you’re watching Canadian Netflix or whatever. [01:03:20] Jay: Um, but all of your TVs are doing that, not just your, your laptop, which is super cool. And the fact that it, the app is just so easy to use. It’s so easy to like, if it’s, it’s logical, which I don’t know how many like web interfaces people have gone to for routers, like that’s never the case. It’s like, I know exactly where I’m going. [01:03:43] Jay: I know exactly how to get there. I create these profiles. I have. An IoT network that was super easy to set up so all of my like home devices are on their own network That’s you know walled off from my computers And like I can do all of these things and not [01:04:00] feel like like I’m hacking into the matrix every time I’m trying to do It it’s like oh, no, this is simple add a new network You know go share this profile to a thing and you’re done [01:04:10] Brett: Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. Um, I use Archer, uh, routers right now and their web interface is, I would call it passable at best. Um, no, that makes me really curious about switching to Synology routers. [01:04:28] Jay: and the routers themselves are solid I mean, they’re expensive, but they’re solid. [01:04:33] Jeff: they are expensive, aren’t they? I’d like to try them. Um, so I, I am, I, I want to talk about, uh, a text editor that I’ve talked about before, which is Sublime Text, um, because I’ve been using it forever and ever and ever, but I actually just, I think that I, I don’t think there are that many people out there who aren’t coders who use text editors primarily for writing [01:05:00] and just straight text and manipulating text and whatever else it is. [01:05:04] Jeff: And I do a lot of work. I do a lot of like qualitative work where I’m working with like interview transcripts or documents that have been provided to me that I’m supposed to analyze or whatever else. I also obviously take a lot of notes and all that stuff. And I, I was just kind of, so I just went through a period of like incredible. [01:05:21] Jeff: Productivity, just in the sense that, like, things that have been blocked that I hadn’t been able to work on or finish for a couple of years have just, like, flowed, and what has facilitated that flow in large part is Sublime Text and just the text editor in general, um, because for all the obvious reasons that you both know, like, it’s also just like a lot of markdown, right? [01:05:41] Jeff: It’s like the amount of time I don’t spend fucking around with totally Um, inexplicable formatting issues or things kind of disappearing in weird ways or whatever it is. I know this is all fundamental text editor markdown stuff, but like, and I’ve been doing this for years and years, but I’ve never been working with so much [01:06:00] text at once. [01:06:01] Jeff: And I’m realizing just how freeing it is and how rare it is. No one on my team who works with the same kind of qualitative data, whatever, has ever even opened a text editor. Um, and you want so badly to show them, but they just, I’m, I’m the person that has so many little hacks and everyone’s like, Oh God, it’s another fucking Gunsel thing. [01:06:19] Jeff: They just like shut off. And, and I just want to be like, no, you don’t understand it’s our work. It makes our work so much easier. Um, so anyway, Sublime Text and I, and the thing is, and Brett and I have talked about this so much, it’s like, I love VS code and it is too much of a playground for me, um, and between, and Sublime and its package manager, um, is just. [01:06:42] Jeff: It’s the perfect thing of like giving me tools and giving me just enough playground. Like it doesn’t let me into the part where you can like climb up that weird thing and then bounce off the thing and then whatever. Like it just keeps me with the swings and, and I’m so grateful for that. Um, so anyway, I’m, I’m talking about text [01:07:00] editors more than anything as Graphitude cause I still go into VS code for things that [01:07:03] Brett: I really want to know how you tie this back to Fugazi though. [01:07:07] Jeff: Oh, I, in the show notes, I was like, that was such, it sounded so obnoxious. I decided not to go there, but I was like, Sublime Text is the Fugazi of text editors. And all I meant by that is, um, it’s a thing that has, has remained exactly as simple as it started. Right. And, and there’s like downsides to that with Fugazi and Ian McKay, like that shit got kind of frozen and annoying. [01:07:27] Jeff: But, um, but the idea is like, Like I was thinking about how Fugazi like always toured with like the most simple stage ever. Like there were like some white lights on the side that were theirs that, that went down on them so that you were never, um, at the mercy of the lighting person and all of their tricks, right? [01:07:43] Jeff: Like that’s the first thing I thought about with VS Code and Sublime. And again, I love VS Code actually. Um, and then also just like the Fugazi thing of like, the shows are always going to be 5. Like sometimes it feels like you’re getting 5 worth of some of the packages in Sublime Text or whatever, or like.[01:08:00] [01:08:00] Jeff: It also just feels like super reliable and simple. Um, yeah, it’s like, it’s unchanging, which is not something I value overall in tech or bands, but, uh, because Fugazi was as much like a business model as it was a band. Um, and because they stayed just so kind of like reliable and consistent. [01:08:17] Brett: But. But. I would say, like Fugazi, every album, if you are a hardcore [01:08:25] Jeff: album was better and more interesting and more layered than the last. [01:08:29] Brett: everyone was different. Everyone, every, every time they released an album, it, it illustrated growth, like they weren’t just putting out the same album over and over again. [01:08:41] Jeff: But the closest they got to VS Code was when they added a second drummer on the last tour. [01:08:46] Jay: See, when you started bringing in bands, when you mentioned VS Code, I immediately thought, this is like toe. People who are not into math rock are just like, what is going on? But once it clicks, you’re just like, oh, I’m doing this. I was, I [01:09:00] was going to ask you, have you ever, have you ever joined a Vim, Emacs? [01:09:05] Jay: Like I’m doing, I’m doing things with texts that your, your puny brain can’t comprehend, like comprehend. And like, to me. That’s where text editor love begins, is when you choose a side, light side, dark side. I’m not going to tell you which one it is, but like when you’re like, I just pushed five buttons and I changed this entire text file to do exactly what I want to do. [01:09:30] Jay: And I’m going to press the period and like, it’s going to do it again. Like there’s a moment there where you’re like, I can, I could launch, I could launch things. Like I could, I could do [01:09:41] Brett: clearly you’re clearly a vim guy [01:09:46] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [01:09:47] Brett: is immediately apparent. You can’t hide that you’re a vim guy. [01:09:51] Jeff: A couple of years ago, I went down the Emacs rabbit hole, specifically Doom Emacs, um, because why not add the Doom, uh, like [01:10:00] name and theme to Emacs. [01:10:01] Jay: of do me, Max. [01:10:02] Jeff: And it was like, and I was like, Oh no, this is incredible. But also it like, it, it pulled me in so hard. And I realized I was spending so much time, time trying to learn some really fundamental things that like I already knew how to do elsewhere that I was like, okay, you got to stop console. [01:10:15] Jeff: But I loved it. It appealed to a part of my brain so hard. [01:10:18] Brett: Yeah. [01:10:18] Jay: knew that I was married to Vim when I opened up VS code and immediately put it into Vim mode [01:10:24] Jeff: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. [01:10:25] Brett: guys do, do either of you use Xcode [01:10:29] Jeff: No. [01:10:30] Jay: No, I’ve [01:10:30] Brett: X Xcode in the last year? I think, um, added Vim mode to xcode editing and it. [01:10:38] Jay: Does it support your local VimRC? [01:10:40] Brett: No, [01:10:41] Jay: Oh, [01:10:42] Jeff: Why? [01:10:43] Brett: there’s no colon command line, but your basic navigation and insert and substitute and change commands all work. And [01:10:52] Jay: use colon. How do you, how do you save and quit? [01:10:57] Jeff: So I do, I have to say, if I’m taking sides, I do take the [01:11:00] vim side. But, um, yeah. [01:11:02] Brett: I think we can all agree. [01:11:04] Jeff: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. [01:11:05] Brett: All right. Um, Jay, do you have another 10 minutes? [01:11:10] Jay: I’ve always got time. [01:11:11] Brett: Because I am very curious to hear about Living Color from Jeff. [01:11:16] Jay: Absolutely. Me too, actually. [01:11:20] Jeff: Okay. So, um, 1987 on the edge of 1988, this band, living Color, all Black Rock Band releases an album called Vivid. Uh, with their single called Cult of Personality. Um, I am in 7th, 8th grade. Uh, I am just starting, I’ve just moved into a new school district that is pretty much all white. I had, I had grown up in a much more sort of mixed environment. [01:11:50] Jeff: Um, and… I was really alienated. I also liked some bad music because I was in seventh grade. Um, and Cult of Personality comes on. This, this, this song [01:12:00] and video, uh, captured me and captured a lot of America, although I don’t understand exactly why, because it was this, they actually radicalized me with this one song and video and then continued to throughout the songs and the albums. [01:12:12] Jeff: And so [01:12:13] Brett: catchy tune that [01:12:14] Jeff: It was a catchy as hell tune. It was on, it was on like Guitar Hero 3, right? Like, but the, the really incredible thing was that here was a band being, this video was being played on MTV like every 30 minutes. It starts with the words and voice of Malcolm X. It cuts to a Black girl watching television, and then into the song, where they are examining the idea of the cult of personality, and there are actually, there’s lines like, like Mussolini and Kennedy, I’m the cult of personality. [01:12:46] Jeff: Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi, I’m the cult of personality, right? Like, that’s some complex shit, right? They’re not… Saying the two are equal, but they’re raising this idea of, like, leaders and what does it mean? And, [01:13:00] and then there are these, there’s this whole line and there’s this line that says, when a leader speaks, a leader dies. [01:13:05] Jeff: And in the video, when they say a leader speaks, they show MLK’s face. When they say a leader dies, they show a row of white cops. Holding batons, right? Like again, 1988, right? This is not radical for black America, but for white America, extremely radical. Right. And on top of it, they are these incredible musicians. [01:13:25] Jeff: Like they come from avant, like jazz and like noise rock backgrounds. Um, and so. There are, there’s a guitar solo in that thing that like, I still, it still feels so ahead of its time that I can’t believe people weren’t just like, this is a great song with that fucking guitar solo. Jesus Christ. Right. Um, and so I loved that band. [01:13:46] Jeff: I saw them open for the Rolling Stones in 1988 and I really went for them. Um, I saw them play with Bad Brains at first Avenue in 1993. Um. By then they had released like three albums of [01:14:00] songs that like, I was radicalized by the second and third album, but the first album, the way that they talked about, um, white America versus black America very explicitly, the way they talked about experiencing racism and like a day to day, there was a song, Funny Vibe, and the lyrics were literally, no, I’m not going to rob you, no, I’m not going to beat you, no, I’m not going to rape you. [01:14:20] Jeff: Like this was the, these were the lyrics of the song and the video was on MTV and. And like, um, that was like so huge. I wrote them a letter in eighth grade, uh, because I was like so alive with what they were doing. So anyway, um, I kind of can’t believe looking back that that band, um, got away with being as, as radical as they were. [01:14:42] Jeff: I also am just maddened. By the fact that most people I talk to remember them because Corey Glover, the singer, wore like a bodyglove wetsuit, like Dayglo bodyglove wetsuit, like a shorts version, and like the, you know, sleeveless version, um, when he performed. And like, that’s notable. I mean, that’s a weird move [01:15:00] and, and probably super sweaty, but the fact that that’s what’s remembered is… [01:15:05] Jeff: It’s really tragic to me. So anyway, I went to see them last night and, and they were, they were opening for the band Extreme, uh, which the connection is there’s two total guitar heroes there, right? This guy, Nuno Bettencourt is like this insane guitarist, but Vernon Reed is like, uh, uh, like a trailblazing, uh, guitarist, right? [01:15:26] Jeff: Um, And I was like, so bummed because my tickets at Xtreme, they were the ones that said like, more than words. And also the song, Get the Funk Out, as in, if you don’t like what you see here, get the funk out. They were just such a stupid band. Gary Cherone, the singer became like a forgotten singer of Van Halen, uh, between like Sammy Hagar and when David Lee Roth joined the band again. [01:15:48] Jeff: It’s just like, it’s a yucky history. Um, and, and I, and so I get there, I’m already pissed off that I’ve got to like own an Xtreme ticket. I go there and on the marquee. Which is a big marquee. It says only extreme. [01:16:00] Like, it doesn’t say living color. There’s plenty of room for living color, right? And I’m not, you know, like, forget, I mean, there are all these ways in which they were historic. [01:16:07] Jeff: Their fucking bass player played on the message by, by Grandmaster Flash on the Furious Five. Like, this band is fucking history, right? Like, Vernon Reed, like, Changed guitar, like, there’s no Rage Against the Machine and Tom Morello without Vernon Reed. Tom Morello would say that, right? Like, they’re just like so important and they’re not on the fucking marquee. [01:16:26] Jeff: Um. [01:16:27] Jay: time I’d ever heard of Vernon Reed wasn’t from LivingColor cause. Cult of personality came out before I was born. Um, but it was on BET Jazz, [01:16:38] Jeff: Wow. [01:16:39] Jay: which was like, and I think he was doing like a cover of like, Greensleeves. So it’s just like, it’s these, these weird moments of just like, Oh, hey, who’s this? [01:16:48] Jay: Oh, wow. What other stuff have they done? Whoa. [01:16:50] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That’s awesome. And they were so versatile. Like last night, they did a cover of Nothing Compares to [01:17:00] You, and it was as much of a Prince tribute as anything. Um, and, uh, Pac Man. And so the craziest thing though, and then I’ll wrap here, is the cult of personality has this moment where he’s sort of like, suddenly breaks like a more flowing, like vocal style, and they’re just shouting, I’m the Cult. [01:17:19] Jeff: Of. Per. Son. Nality, right? And he didn’t sing it, but the entire crowd, which is almost all white, um, was literally throwing their hands and singing each one without the band singing, I. Am. The. Cult. And it was like the creepiest fucking thing I’ve ever seen. And… The last thing I’ll say about the weirdness of going to an extreme show where Living Color opens is I was in the merch line. [01:17:43] Jeff: First, this like, white, or this like white dude passes me with a Jackal shirt, which was like a hair metal band that the dude had like a chainsaw, and then a black dude passes me with an Elvin Jones shirt, and I was like, this is a fucking weird night. Anyway, but just like so many shout [01:18:00] outs to Living Color for educating me and, and giving me like a place for what I, like, helping to affirm all the shit that I felt like was wrong where I was, um, and also just forcing me to think in, like, very complex, dualistic ways as a young kid. [01:18:16] Jeff: A young white kid. [01:18:18] Jay: You brought up that Prince cover. Um, also, you know, Sinead. Um, but like, That reminded me of the, uh, there was a Prince Discog Dive that just went through where it’s like, this is a YouTuber who like goes through the entire discography of an artist. And I mean, it’s one of those things where it’s like, not everything they say is going to be great and, but it was pretty solid. [01:18:43] Jay: And they just, it just reminded me, you were talking about this, this weird mindset of like people not realizing what’s going on in front of them. And He brings up this moment where Prince opened for, um, the Rolling Stones and in [01:19:00] L. A. at the L. A. Coliseum. And got booed for three days straight. And to the point where literally people were like, they were mailing in and sending in like letters with just racist and like homophobic slurs about why the greatest rock band in history would allow like such derogatory filth to open for them. [01:19:26] Jay: And in my mind, I’m just like. That was Prince, like, [01:19:31] Jeff: I know, that’s crazy! [01:19:33] Jay: that whole mi and, and kind of like you were saying with like Living Color and Extreme of just like You don’t, you don’t even realize what you have in front of you. Like you don’t realize the amaze, like just the amazing history and legacy. [01:19:47] Jay: And at the time it was the very much present, but like, I would, I, I’ve, I’ve wondered, like, have I ever gone to a show where it’s like, all of a sudden I’m going to regret that I was like, Oh yeah, that first band sucked. Who [01:20:00] was that? Oh, I don’t [01:20:00] Jeff: yeah, yeah, right, right, right, right. Well, you know, the, when, when they opened for the Rolling Stones, there were nights where the, where white men in the front crowd would just hold up their middle fingers for the entire set. And that’s, despite the fact, the reason they, so Mick Jagger saw them at CBGBs and was like, I love you. [01:20:18] Jeff: I have studio time, not far from here. I would like to record a demo for you for free. And like, that’s actually how they got like towards a record label. So there’s like this real relationship between the Rolling Stones and this band. And it’s the same thing. People are like, what the fuck are you bringing these guys here? [01:20:33] Brett: did you know when you bought Extreme Tickets that Living Color was playing? Was that why you bought the [01:20:38] Jeff: I, what kind of asshole [01:20:40] Brett: I’m, I gotta know. I just need this out on the table. [01:20:43] Jeff: Yeah, no, I had said about three years ago, I’m like, the next time that band comes to town, because they would reunite, I’m going to the show. And then I see Extreme, Living Color, I’m like, fuck! [01:20:54] Brett: I meant no offense. I [01:20:55] Jeff: It made me wish you [01:20:56] Brett: like that needed to be said out [01:20:57] Jeff: it made me wish you could like, I don’t know if this [01:21:00] is quite like ranked choice voting, but like you could divert, you could say I want, I want 95% of my ticket to go to Living Color. [01:21:07] Jeff: And 5% to go to Xtreme because I did own the album, you know, um, but yeah, no, fuck that. I, are you kidding me? And I left, man. I walked, I went and bought my shirt when they were done and I was out of there before that band took the stage. So [01:21:23] Brett: Alright. [01:21:24] Jeff: Xtreme fans. [01:21:25] Brett: Well, thanks for being here this week, Jay. [01:21:27] Jeff: Thank you, Jay. [01:21:28] Brett: We’re gonna have you back again on a week Christina can make it. [01:21:31] Jay: Absolutely. [01:21:33] Brett: Alright. [01:21:33] Jay: it. It’s a dream come true for me. Um, I’ve been on, I think I’ve completed uh, all of the podcasts that I’ve ever wanted to be on. So, [01:21:42] Brett: There you go. [01:21:43] Jay: we’ve done it. [01:21:44] Brett: Alright. You guys get some sleep. [01:21:47] Jay: Get some sleep. [01:21:47] Jeff: sleep. [01:22:00]

Jeff is back from Africa, and the gang is ready to dig into mental health. Everyone has stories to share. Sponsor Factor gives you fresh, never frozen meals, ready to eat in two minutes. Save 50% with code overtired50 at factormeals.com/overtired50. Show Links Amex platinum Auvelity Complex PTSD Religious Trauma Syndrome OrbStack AI on Setapp Tembo Orchard Resales Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript The Mental Health Corner Episode [00:00:00] Jeff: Hi, everybody. I’m home. Uh, this is the Overtired podcast and I am Jeff Severns Guntzel and I’m here with my co hosts, Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra. Um, and I haven’t been here with either of you in a long time. And by here, I mean a virtual room where I can see you, but the listeners can’t. Hi. [00:00:22] Brett: Hi, welcome back. [00:00:24] Jeff: Thank you. I didn’t, [00:00:26] Jeff goes to Kenya! [00:00:26] Brett: So tell us where you’ve been. Tell us what’s been going on. [00:00:30] Jeff: Um, Yeah, I just, I’m back. I’m a week now back from a really incredible family vacation. Um, and we went to, uh, we went to Kenya. Um, initially like a, we went to Kenya, um, first of all, to stay with my friend Wanja and her partner, Mel, who have a farm in, um, just outside of Nairobi. [00:00:51] Jeff: Um, like an amazing farm. Like you walk out of their house and not only are you met by four of the best dogs in the world who it turns out keep the monkeys [00:01:00] away, okay. But also if you walk at just past their two offices made out of shipping containers, which are also amazing, you’re in an area like, uh, like basically a farm that has like banana trees and they grow mangoes and avocado and, um, like everything you can imagine, including in, in her case, she’s trying to bring back a certain type of banana that’s gone, um, like almost missing in Kenya. [00:01:22] Jeff: Um, and, and so, uh, yeah, so we went to Kenya, um, stayed with my. My two friends who are just amazing people. I met them. I met one doing, um, other work in the past and her partner Mel does this amazing work with this, um, feminist, um, action group in East Africa mostly. Um, and so it was just like, It was just great to be in a completely new place. [00:01:48] Jeff: I’ve never been to the continent of Africa. Um, and I recognized that I was only in a little piece of it. There’s an understandable sensitivity of people coming and being like, I’m in Africa, [00:02:00] um, when in fact you’re in one little part of Africa. Um, and, and so, yeah, we went, then we went to like a national park, um, where should I just talk about the trip? [00:02:10] Jeff: Is that okay? I’m not just giving an overview. [00:02:12] Christina: Yeah, I want to know all about [00:02:13] Jeff: So we went to a national park. Um, West National Park and, and there was a, like a resort there. Um, and we didn’t really know much about the resort. We especially did not know that like, okay, so you walk in, uh, to the entrance, but the entrance is actually like this, this large, um, massive, like. [00:02:33] Jeff: Ballroom type entryway. And on the other end of it is just the same size hole looking out over, um, over the national park. And, and like, so we just kind of wander up to the edge of that where there’s like a dining area and stuff and it’s all wide open. There’s no screens or windows or anything. And there’s like a watering hole that is a natural watering hole, but of course, uh, kept, um, alive through all the various seasons for the sake of tourism. [00:02:58] Jeff: But it’s, it’s, [00:03:00] we, we like, we walk up to it and. It’s like 50 yards away or less, this watering hole, and it’s completely, um, filled with, or surrounded by, let’s see, giraffe, ostriches, warthogs, God bless them, baboons, God bless them, uh, zebras, um, like everything but like hippos, rhinos, and, and lions. And, and they were all so real and huge and graceful, graceful, except for when you ever seen a giraffe try to drink? [00:03:36] Jeff: It’s very awkward, but [00:03:38] Brett: actually, it’s actually physical, physically very impressive that they even can [00:03:43] Jeff: that they even can they get they like spread their legs really awkwardly and the knees look like they’re gonna buckle. [00:03:48] Brett: that their heads don’t explode when they lower their [00:03:50] Jeff: Yeah, exactly. It takes a long time for the blood to [00:03:53] Brett: Evolution at well, evolutionarily giraffes are very impressive. Like it’s very [00:04:00] impressive. [00:04:00] Jeff: And so like, I, you know, last year we were supposed to go on this Kenya trip, but I got COVID. And so we ended up driving like a total improvised trip out to Yellowstone, which by some grace of God was empty because up until a week before it had been flooded and nobody knew it was open. And we went to the sort of Grand Canyon of Yellowstone. [00:04:19] Jeff: And I remember I stopped at the edge and I could not believe what I was looking at. Like I, my brain just couldn’t fully take it in. And that’s what happened here. Like, I was like, I was just staring at him like that’s. That’s real. And it’s not like we were in some like fenced in special tourist area. [00:04:32] Jeff: Like we were in like a gigantic national park, right? Like the size of a couple of states in the US. And, and that knowledge was like, I need David Attenborough to call me to calm me down to give me context to tell me what’s happening here. So we stayed, stayed there for a few days after the farm. And then we went to Mombasa to the ocean. [00:04:55] Jeff: And, um, and that was, I mean, it was just like, It was a great trip. [00:05:00] And for me, um, it couldn’t have come at a better time. Uh, and it was just a wonderful time to be challenged a little bit, to be in a place that I didn’t know at all. And I didn’t exactly forget how much I loved that, but I had lost touch a little bit with how much I love having to sort of improvise in a place where. [00:05:19] Jeff: I’m not familiar, but also like being conscious of trying to improvise in a way that isn’t like taking up too much space or just being whatever. When I’m in Europe, I’m very comfortable being an ugly American. I feel like that’s part of my role. I feel like that’s our, you know, we are just, we’re locked in that relationship forever. [00:05:35] Jeff: I’m totally okay with it. Um, but when I go anywhere else, I’m like, I try to be. boisterous enough to be at least, like, break down some tension with some kind of charm, but not be, uh, a big, giant asshole. Um, but anyway, so that was that trip. It was with my family. I have two teenage boys, one of whom is going into his senior year of high school, so, you know, we won’t have too many more of, like, [00:06:00] these types of trips where, like, we all leave from home, the same house, and come back to home, the same house. [00:06:07] Jeff: It happens that our family gets along wonderfully. Um, as long as I’m not having a met adjustment, this is another topic, which will did not happen on this trip. Um, sorry, no topic just came up. Um, but it was like my boys by some. Lottery have never fought. Um, they’re two years apart and I can’t remember a single fight except like when, when my youngest was very young, he, he had this amazing fight move, even when they weren’t fighting, where he would go up to my oldest, who’s always been very tall and just grab him by the legs below the shins until he fell like total, like at, at Walker, like battle style. [00:06:44] Jeff: But anyway, like they get along great. They’re just chit chatting the whole time. So it’s just super nice. And, um. What was a little piece of this that was amazing, and I still can’t believe it was just a little slice, was… On our way there, um, we stopped in Egypt, a [00:07:00] dear, dear friend in Egypt, who I haven’t seen in a few years, but we’ve spent six weeks traveling together in three different countries over time. [00:07:08] Jeff: Um, and so we, we made it a 25 hour layover in Cairo. We saw the pyramids in the morning and went to his house for an Eid meal in the afternoon. Um, He taught my youngest, my youngest is super interested in how you roll cigarettes. Um, he watches a lot of old Westerns and stuff. And so when my friend Ahmed started rolling his cigarette, I was like, Oh man, Anthony’s definitely interested. [00:07:34] Jeff: And he’s like, come on over. And so he not only teaches Anthony how to roll a cigarette, but teaches them the fine distinctions between rolling a cigarette and rolling a joint. And I have this amazing picture of the two of them, and it was just such a kick, it was a blast. And seeing the pyramids was insane, it was like, it was awful, because it’s just one of those dynamics where like, there’s a lot of people coming up to you and trying to sell you things or whatever else, and I’m like, not, I’m not down on those people at all, it’s just that [00:08:00] dynamic sucks, and I’m definitely on the good end of it. [00:08:04] Jeff: But like, standing at the base of the pyramids was pretty wild, like, it is, turns out it’s pretty cool. It’s pretty cool. Um. And so, yeah, it was just like this amazing trip. The piece that I haven’t talked about is my wife is an incredible miles hacker, like credit card miles hacker, like incredible, which meant that all of our flights were free. [00:08:23] Jeff: We’d have never been able to afford this. Not only were they free, but two nine hour legs were fricking business class. [00:08:30] Christina: Oh my God. [00:08:32] Jeff: And which I’ve never flown and, and again, I want to just emphasize the listeners. We could not even have afforded to do this and coach had it not been for this thing. And so have you flown ever business [00:08:44] Brett: Oh, [00:08:45] Jeff: Okay. I have not like in the pods and whatnot. Um, so I have [00:08:49] Christina: I’ve done this. I’ve done the Singapore suites, which was actually first class, uh, international first class, but that was only once. And that was with credit card miles. Sorry. [00:08:57] Jeff: Awesome. Yeah. This is like the, totally like the lay [00:09:00] flat pods, although it turns out me and my oldest are too tall to actually lay flat. It ends [00:09:04] Christina: still amazing. [00:09:06] Jeff: Yeah, it’s still amazing. So um, that was so funny for me because I spent most of that time being like, these motherfuckers have had this all, like this bathroom that I can not only stand in, but walk a circle in and when I sit down, I’m looking out a window dedicated to like pooping and peeing. [00:09:25] Christina: No, exactly. Exactly. No, once you experience it and you realize that there’s been this whole other like class available, like at this point, I will not go international unless I’m flying business class. Um, I will not do it. And, and I used to always like work always covered it. But, um, They’ve cut budgets significantly. [00:09:43] Christina: So I have to either upgrade myself or, you know, pay or whatnot, or, or just have it. And, but I haven’t gone on an international trip, um, in, in a year at this point, but like I did premium economy, um, to Copenhagen last year. And on the way back, I upgraded myself. I was like, I am not [00:10:00] doing like, it was like a, it was like a 12 hour flight. [00:10:02] Christina: I was like, ah, [00:10:04] Jeff: Yeah. [00:10:05] Christina: it’s full business class or nothing, not doing it. [00:10:08] Brett: that’s, that’s what terrified me when they were when they were planning to send me to Spain. It’s what like a 1313 16 hour flight. I don’t remember. [00:10:17] Christina: No, I mean, for you it’d be like, it’d be like, uh, because for me it’s ten, so for you it’d be like eight. [00:10:24] Brett: No, I don’t think that’s true. I’ll take your word for it. Either way, like I get, I get freaked out in even with even like an exit row and coach. I get freaked out after about two hours. I just I go, I go insane. I can’t handle it. And the cost to upgrade this. [00:10:46] Christina: but there’s, but, but, but, but that is with one stop. [00:10:49] Brett: And the cost, the cost to upgrade The, cause they would buy me a coach ticket and to upgrade it would have been like 1500 bucks. [00:10:56] Brett: And I just wasn’t sure, for one leg, I [00:11:00] just, I, I, I, I decided to bite the bullet. Then they canceled my trip and it was a moot point. But, um, yeah, like flying coach for nine to 12 hours seems insane to [00:11:13] Jeff: in the, go ahead, Christina. [00:11:16] Christina: I was going to say, and I’ve done it. I’ve done it. And it is, [00:11:18] Jeff: Well, and in the middle of this, so our flight, our, our journey home from Mombasa was five flights over 46 hours. Um, and in the middle of that was a nine hour coach flight. And it wasn’t just that all of a sudden I was crunched and I had been to the promised land. Um, it was that, like, the poor, like, entire row of kids next to me were coughing, [00:11:42] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:11:43] Jeff: nine hours, and I’m like, oh, that’s it, I’m dead. [00:11:45] Jeff: But also, the funny thing is how swi how quickly my sort of class allegiances can change. So, like, I I did notice, like, I’m like, my first time in business class, I’m like, oh, this is why nobody looks me in the eye when I’m walking through to coach. And, like, and then when I was [00:12:00] going to coach, I was like, look me in the eye. And, like, [00:12:03] Christina: one of you. [00:12:04] Jeff: Yeah, so like the only okay, so two other things about this one, I had an amazing the one thing I didn’t realize about business classes, how many people are doing it for the first time, whenever you’re there, which gives it kind of a fun feel. And so I sat down in my like, pod, and the dude in the pod next to me must have been about like, Yeah, mid seventies. [00:12:22] Jeff: And he’s drinking a whiskey, um, instead of the champagne that they give you right away. Right? He just went straight for the whiskey. He’s gruff. He’s got a beard and all of the stuff they give you is stacked in his lap. And, and as I’m putting my, my stuff away and kind of trying to figure this out myself, I mean, what the hell is all this? [00:12:36] Jeff: And he goes, you ever flown first class before? And I was like, no, he’s like, yeah, What do I do with all this shit? And like, as I settled in, I’m like, I don’t know, because by the time I settled in, it looked like how I live at home. It was just shit everywhere. And like, I dropped something behind the seat or whatever, but I want to say one last thing about the business class experience, which is not strictly business class, but mostly I had [00:13:00] never been in an airport lounge and [00:13:02] Christina: was the best experience. [00:13:03] Jeff: I what this here’s what pisses me off about it and almost nothing pisses me off about it. [00:13:08] Jeff: But the one thing that pisses me off about it. It’s like, okay, so when I’m flying in coach, I’m walking around the airport paying shit tons of money for stupid, terrible food. And all along, these people were in here with outlets, showers, and a buffet that included free gummy bears. Like, I was like, [00:13:27] Christina: Now, now I will say, uh, it is very easy for anybody, regardless of what, um, class you’re flying to get into an airport lounge, [00:13:35] Jeff: Yes. [00:13:36] Christina: the airport lounges are now very crowded. So, [00:13:39] Brett: 70, 70, 70 bucks, I think is what it cost me. When I was flying coach, I got into the Delta lounge. [00:13:45] Christina: well, yeah, but you can’t buy, because they’re so crowded now because of credit cards, you can’t buy a day pass anymore. Lounge is unless it’s prior to past lounge, however, and this is the thing and this is what all will I will give to listeners out there? There are few credit cards that you can get if you’re a credit [00:14:00] card person that if you travel even a moderate amount are worth it The the big one. [00:14:05] Christina: Yes, I was going to say is the American Express platinum card that card if you’re a Delta flyer Especially Is an amazing value. All right. I will be honest. The annual fee is either six or 700. However, you get a Delta, um, SkyClub with it, which is more than the cost of the annual fee. If you buy the individual membership, you also get access to all of the American Express Centurion lounges. [00:14:29] Christina: You also get access to the entire priority pass network and the Delta SkyClub thing also means that you have lounges to all the Air France and KLM and. And other things. So, plus you get free, um, uh, clear plus, which is the clear that also gets you through TSA pre check and you get a TSA pre check, um, global entry things. [00:14:48] Christina: All that is like comped. So. The annual fee is high, but it’s worth [00:14:53] Brett: If you’re traveling, it’s [00:14:55] Christina: if you travel more than I’d say five times a year and you have like a lounge, [00:15:00] especially if you’re Delta flyer. It’s worth it. The alternate card is also high. Annual fee is the chase Sapphire reserve. That also gives you priority pass and it gives you a certain amount of like, uh, you get a couple hundred dollars like actual money, um, airline credit each year and other stuff. [00:15:15] Christina: So if you travel a lot and you want to do the lounge system, the, the Sapphire reserve is, is second best for lounges. But the. best one is the American Express Platinum. [00:15:25] Jeff: Go ahead. [00:15:26] Brett: I will say that the lounges change an airport entirely once you discover the lounge. Like the San Francisco airport, it’s, it’s generally pretty nice, but it’s so boring if you’re there for more than an [00:15:39] Christina: Yeah. No, I, I, [00:15:41] Brett: the lounge changes everything. [00:15:43] Christina: I call it my happy place. Like I still check in, um, on, um, on, on swarm, which used to be four square. And I literally call it the lounge, my happy place because it is one of those things like, and, and it’s also great, especially if you have like TSA pre check or clear and whatnot, like. I’ll have, I’ll, I’ll, I usually get to the airport [00:16:00] late. [00:16:00] Christina: Um, and, and I’ll, I might have, you know, 45 minutes before my, my, my plane, you know, is boarding or sometimes even half an hour, and I’m just like, no, I’m gonna go to the lounge. I’m going to get a drink and, and, and maybe grab a snack, maybe grab some chips or something. I’m gonna go to the bathroom, you know, if I have longer than that, like if I need to do a meeting, if I need to do something like it’s. [00:16:19] Christina: It’s now, not all airport lounges are great. It depends on the airport you’re in, depends on other stuff. But like, um, Chicago, uh, uh, has, um, uh, you know, good airports and probably has good lounge situation. Minneapolis where you are, Brett, like that amazing lounge, um, stuff. Delta [00:16:36] Brett: launch in Minneapolis is awesome. [00:16:38] Christina: The Delta lounge in Seattle is also great. [00:16:41] Christina: Uh, because, uh, it’s, um, uh, we’re a hub. So it was Minneapolis. So, um. Yeah, [00:16:47] Jeff: And, and I will say that on the 46 hour, five flight journey home at about. Our 26th, we were in a really nice lounge, I think we were [00:17:00] in Frankfurt, and I took a shower, [00:17:02] Christina: that’s the best thing, [00:17:04] Jeff: and I, I thought, why would I ever want to take a shower, but Laurel, like, my wife did it, and then she sent a picture of it, she’s like, this is amazing, and I was like, okay, I’ll try it, and it was like, uh, the flow from the ceiling, [00:17:16] Christina: Yeah, and it like changes everything like what you can also do is a great thing to do You did it perfectly because you were like in between legs But what I’ve done is I’ve either gone to the airport and like been about to leave and like taking a shower But my favorite thing to do is either what you did like in between a layover or a shower on arrival Like, if I take a red eye, I’ll go to the lounge, and like, I’m, I’m, and then before I go, like, I’ll go to the lounge before I even get my bags or whatever, um, if I’ve checked a bag, and I’ll take a shower, and then, like, I will have, like, a change of clothes with me, and then I will, like, be able to go to my hotel and just be like, Ah, [00:17:52] Jeff: Yeah. Awesome. Two. Okay. Two things to close this out. One, putting compression socks back on after a shower is a drag. Um, and I’m old. [00:18:00] Two, the Amex Platinum card, if you live in a snowy region, is an amazing ice scraper, which is how I lost mine. Cause it’s metal. [00:18:09] Christina: it is metal, it’s great. You can also get it in rose gold, um, [00:18:12] Jeff: That’s right. That’s right. [00:18:13] Christina: sorry, that’s the gold one, no, the platinum is just platinum, but, uh, yeah, but they do have, because I both have the platinum and I have the rose gold gold card, but yeah. Platinum heart is, is metal. It’s great. [00:18:21] Brett: All right. [00:18:22] Jeff: That was great. [00:18:23] Brett: Thank you for sharing Jeff. That sounds like an amazing experience. I’m actually very jealous. I have not traveled for so long now. [00:18:32] Christina: I love that your kids and your whole family have that experience. Like that to me, what you were saying about like, you know, it’s the last like big family, you know, one of the last big like family trips like this, where you’re all, we coming back to the same house, like they’ll, and what’s great is everybody’s old enough to remember it like this. [00:18:45] Christina: It’s going to be one of those things that everybody was old enough to remember it and enjoy it and, and be together. And that’s, that’s fantastic. [00:18:52] Jeff: Totally. [00:18:53] Brett: very [00:18:54] Jeff: I’ll submit a photo for show art. [00:18:56] Brett: Yes, please do. Um, all right. So how do [00:19:00] you guys feel about a little mental health corner? [00:19:03] Jeff: I’m already in that corner. [00:19:04] Brett: I have some shit to talk about, but I can go last. [00:19:10] Jeff: Christina. [00:19:10] Brett: Yeah. Christina go. [00:19:12] Mental Health Corner [00:19:12] Christina: All right. I have some shit to talk about too. All right. So, um, I’m doing pretty well right now. I’ve just started a new antidepressant called Ovelity, A U V E L I T Y, and it is, it’s only been on the market for just under a year. The data that my psychiatrist told me about, because he follows all this stuff, is very similar to S ketamine, which, um, is, um, you know, the, the, the, um, nasal infusions, um, that it’s the only way that, that ketamine is approved. [00:19:43] Christina: It’s not, it’s some similar like formulation, but it’s not the same thing. Um, but the, it’s like part of it as well, we’ve turned it and there’s some other compound that they’ve combined it with, but the results are very, very good. Um, in, in all, in all the studies, like the, they’re, they’re off the [00:20:00] charts. [00:20:00] Christina: I’ve only been on it. I think I’m on like day four or day five. Um, and I’ve. Um, I’m already noticing a, a market improvement, which is good because I’d been pretty depressed and I’d been in a pretty depressed state for a while. Um, add to that, um, Um, the last week, uh, plus has been really, really difficult. [00:20:19] Christina: Um, a friend of mine and a guy that I worked with closely for five years, um, died unexpectedly, um, at, uh, at age 37. And, um, that’s, it’s been incredibly, incredibly difficult to, um, to navigate that. And, um, I’m, um, yeah, so like last week was really, really rough. Um, but, um. We were, we were talking pre show about how sometimes you can take a medication, it can impact you and you don’t even, you’re not even aware of it. [00:20:56] Christina: Like I, either you have like a bad reaction or you have a good reaction. And [00:21:00] honestly it was one of those things I think like took me like two days because I typically, however my body is wired, I react to, to med changes very fast, like very fast. Like I will usually get a side effect almost immediately or like it’ll kick in or it’ll, it’ll work or it won’t. [00:21:17] Christina: Um, I will also say that things have a tendency to not work forever. So I’m going to have to like, keep, keep a watch on that. But, um, uh, this was one where honestly, like, and I don’t think it’s placebo because again, I was already depressed and then adding grief on top of that. Um, and, and I’m like feeling like. [00:21:38] Christina: Immeasurably immeasurably bit better. Like, I’m still obviously, um, working through the, the grief of, of losing my friend. Um, and, and the circumstances and the whole, everything that was kind of involved in that. And I have some guilt that’s involved for, for myself involved in that too. That, that I’m, that I’m not gonna dive into. [00:21:56] Christina: Um, but, um, I’m [00:22:00] feeling so much better than I was a week ago when I literally couldn’t get out of bed and was just from a combination of just everything. So, so that, that’s it. [00:22:11] Jeff: helping. And I’m sorry about your friend. And I, without you going into it, like you said, like that, there are so many ways to have guilt when someone dies. It’s like. It’s terrible. [00:22:24] Brett: Yeah. So it’s a, uh, Ability is a combination of dextromorphophan and, and bupriapine, which is Welbutrin, as you said. Um, but I can’t find the information on its titration period. It sounds like you have really quick titrations, like you adjust to medications faster than average. Um, I know Welbutrin usually has a 30 day titration period. [00:22:52] Brett: Yeah. [00:22:52] Christina: I think so. And I remember, and I remember when I took well, we turned and obviously this 20 years ago. I remember that kicking in relatively [00:23:00] quickly, [00:23:00] Brett: Yeah, I mean, it’s entirely possible. I’m not, I’m not [00:23:03] Christina: Yeah, no, no, no, totally. Well, no, but I mean, there have been things, I mean, again, like, I will, like, I remember the first time, I don’t remember what it was. [00:23:09] Christina: It was Prozac or Paxil, one of them. I remember taking it and then like, oh, I don’t remember what it was now, but there was one drug that I took that immediately gave me migraines. [00:23:17] Jeff: Mm. [00:23:18] Christina: first migraine I’ve ever, I’d ever had, like, could not open my eyes. Um, migraines. Um, now that’s a side effect, but yeah, for me typically, like, and again, I’m not feeling like a hundred percent, but, um, there’s been like a market improvement and [00:23:33] Brett: really hopeful. [00:23:34] Christina: yeah, like, like, like I would like, like my, like my bedroom has just been kind of a complete disaster. [00:23:39] Christina: And like, I did a lot of work on cleaning it last night with like very little. [00:23:43] Jeff: Always a good sign. [00:23:44] Christina: No, it really is because and, and, and, and I went to two movies yesterday and, and I’m, you know, like I, I was worried because I’ve got this big thing that I’m doing today. I’m going to Taylor Swift with a friend of mine who’s had the worst year that anybody could have. [00:23:59] Christina: And [00:24:00] um, she, um, she lost her husband unexpectedly while they were on a family vacation. And Turks and Caicos, um, with, uh, two kids under five, um, uh, you know, he like dropped out of a heart attack at age 39 and she’s genuinely the nicest, kindest, sweetest person I’ve ever met. And, you know, I was like worried that I was going to have to like, almost like fake it to sort of rally, you know, to be there for her because I’m, I’m, she’s flying in, but like, I, I, I’ve got us a hotel room and, and I, I gave her my, my extra ticket, um, because I wanted to do something for her and, you know, I was really worried that I was like going to have to, Uh, you know, like really have to like fake excitement and, and whatnot. [00:24:45] Christina: And, and I’m certainly not feeling the same euphoria that I was feeling when I was in New York two months ago, but, um, like, cause my mental health was better then, but I’m definitely like feeling like I can be in a place where I can actually be in that moment and not be like [00:25:00] besotted by the grief of my friend and guilt over that and the depression and all that stuff. [00:25:04] Christina: Like, I’m actually feeling like I can go in and I can enjoy myself. [00:25:07] Jeff: Yeah. Oh, [00:25:08] Brett: I like house cleaning as a measure of wellness. [00:25:13] Jeff: it’s huge in my life. [00:25:15] Brett: and, and it’s, it’s, it has this compound effect where like cleaning the house indicates that you are in a better place to begin with, but then having a clean house puts you in an even better place. Um, so it’s kind of, it’s kind of like crawling your way out [00:25:32] Christina: it really is. It really is. It’s one of those things where it’s it’s like it’s it’s um kind of like how you have to, I think, treat agoraphobia and and things like that, which is that you go, you have to go against the grain, which is like you have to actually get out and do things and do the hard thing and then you feel better the more you do it. [00:25:52] Christina: Um, but, but I, cause, you know, like, yeah, I think that, that you’re right. It’s a really, really good barometer for [00:26:00] health because like, you feel better when your house is cleaner, but there can be those points when, like Grant and I, we say that like, you can tell like how we’re feeling based on like, kind of like the cloneliness or lack thereof. [00:26:10] Christina: And like bedroom is just like a disaster. Um, because I was just in a really, really bad place and had been for a really long time. And then having to still fake it, you know, uh, for work as much as I could until that was even breaking down. And so I’m, I’m hopeful, you know, like I’m, I’m not like feeling like this is necessarily going to be a complete win, but, um, the, the hopeful thing, and then, then they’ll shut up. [00:26:34] Christina: Cause I know that you have a lot to say, uh, Brett and I know you [00:26:36] Brett: no, please go ahead. [00:26:38] Christina: but, um, is, um, in addition to going on this new medication, I’m also coming off of a I’ve been on and off of for a really long time effects are, um, I was on the lowest dose, 37 and a half milligrams. The reason I’ve still been on that, even though it’s a very low dose, um, in addition to this other pill that I’ve taken is because, um, frontalics is [00:27:00] because The side effects like the withdrawal is so severe and I’ve gone through that withdrawal before and it’s awful and so I’ve been trying to withdraw from it while I’m the ability. [00:27:11] Christina: So what I’m doing is I’m literally I’m like taking a capsule I’m I’m opening it up. I’m putting half of it in my hand, you know I have little pellets in my hand taking those and then you know Putting the capsule back together and then taking the the capsule the next day. I could You know, like order my doctor was like, Oh, you could get, you know, capsules off of Amazon or whatever. [00:27:32] Christina: I’m like, Dr. Wah. I was wonderful for you to think that I will do that. I was like, and, and that might even be a fun project for my husband. He might even enjoy playing pharmacist. I was like, however, I can tell you right now, I’m not going to do that. I’m going to eyeball it and get close enough. You know, I was like, [00:27:52] Jeff: You’re not gonna borrow your friend’s drug scale? [00:27:54] Christina: no, [00:27:54] Jeff: I’m not saying your friends have drug scales, [00:27:57] Christina: I mean, I do have [00:27:57] Jeff: probably don’t have to reach too far. [00:27:59] Christina: Oh, [00:28:00] not at all. [00:28:01] Jeff: You know anybody in the restaurant industry? Boom. [00:28:04] Christina: all. Or the software industry. You know? [00:28:06] Jeff: Or the software industry. That’s true. [00:28:08] Brett: I have a, I have, I, I have a milligram scale. It’s actually very good. [00:28:13] Christina: Um, And we might even have one. I don’t even know. Grant might have one for… Honestly, Grant probably has one. [00:28:19] Jeff: but the point is that’s not how you’re doing this. [00:28:21] Christina: Fuck no. Absolutely not. That, that, that, that’s a level of effort and precision. Um, so anyway, again, like just to finish out, like why this is hopeful is that I’m, you know, trying to, um, get myself off of this thing that I’ve been on for many, many, many, many years while trying a new thing as well. [00:28:39] Christina: And I was. And this was before the death, I was like, oh shit, this is going to be a really difficult time to have this concert and have this weekend and have all this stuff, um, but um, but I’m doing okay. So that’s, I’m, I’m really hopeful about that. [00:28:55] Jeff: So as long as Taylor Swift is on this world bending tour, are you just going to be occasionally going?[00:29:00] [00:29:00] Christina: Yes. I mean, honestly, I would love to go to some of the international shows if I can. Well, if I could reliably get tickets, like the Asia legs, there’s no way in hell I would, I would try that. I wouldn’t do South America, but I would, I would go to Australia. I would go to Europe. And the only reason I wouldn’t go try for the Asian legs, Singapore would be amazing, but I think they are going to be impossible to like buy, um, regularly. [00:29:22] Christina: And then the other things I’m just like, the, the insanity in those countries around her. I’m just like, I don’t know. [00:29:33] Jeff: Be something to see. [00:29:34] Christina: I would, but I’m also like, I like, like, like South, like, I’m just trying to imagine like what it’ll be like when she’s in Brazil because I’ve been to Brazil, um, a few [00:29:41] Jeff: everything insane when somebody comes [00:29:43] Christina: Yes. Yes. And, and that’s the thing. [00:29:45] Christina: And, and I’ve spent like, I feel like I know Brazil because I’ve spent like, Uh, total time of like a month there and, and, and I’ve been in a bunch of different cities and so I don’t really know it. I only know parts of it, but like everything I’ve seen, like, I’m like, I, I’m like, [00:30:00] Oh my God, that is going to be. [00:30:02] Christina: Absolute insanity because there are people who are like, Oh, the tickets are cheaper. I could just go to Brazil and said, I’m like, Oh, wow. A prepare yourself for one of those flights that, that, that, um, you know, you were on, uh, Jeff, you know, getting there, like it’s not 46 hours, but it’s 27. Um, and, uh, and, and B, um, I just, I feel like, I feel like I’d be worried genuinely about like the size of the crowds and the other stuff like in, and I’m not even being hyperbolic here. [00:30:31] Christina: I’m like, And I’m not scared by crowds and I’m like, I feel like this would be like a World Cup sort of situation and I’m not really sure if I want to be a part of that, but I would go see her in Paris or in, in England. I would love to see her in Paris. [00:30:45] Brett: That would be fun. [00:30:47] Jeff: yeah. [00:30:47] Christina: I’m done now. [00:30:49] Brett: I will say on the house cleaning thing, um, my, we, we have house cleaners come about once a month and, um, our, the, it’s [00:31:00] a couple that cleans our house and, uh, the woman in the couple, it’s a heterosexual couple. The woman, um, is big into like energy and astrology and stuff. And she. After Yeti died, she advised me that cleaning the spaces where Yeti was, was important to my grieving process. [00:31:26] Brett: And one of those spaces was my bedroom, which I always ask them to leave alone. Like, well, like clean the whole house, but my bedroom is kind of my like safe space and it’s, um, it’s a mess. Like, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t want anyone touching it, but this time I like, uh, I, I, I, I put a bunch of shit on the bed, um, just to get it out of the way. [00:31:50] Brett: But I did clean up the room enough for them to come in and do like a deep clean on the floors and surfaces. And actually she was right. It [00:32:00] actually was really good for. For my mental health and for my grieving process. And yeah, it was, it was, it was nice. [00:32:09] Christina: That’s great. [00:32:10] Jeff: That’s great. Yeti. [00:32:13] Brett: Jeff, how are you doing? [00:32:16] Jeff: I’m doing good today. Uh, I had a hard time once I was home. It’s weird, like there’s, there was two things happening at once. And, and one is that like something shifted in me about a couple, maybe a month and a half ago, where all of a sudden I was like performing my work at a level that I had wished I always It had been that I knew I could, um, work came easy. [00:32:40] Jeff: Getting things done came easy. When I raised my hand for something, I didn’t feel like everyone was going, dude, no, Like, you’ve, you’ve raised your hand for everything. And so when I came back home, that feeling continued, but I found myself in my office just feeling like, Really kind of depressed. And I think it was partly probably just that I dove right in after the trip and that [00:33:00] on the trip, I felt so good. [00:33:01] Jeff: And I don’t know if you have this experience, but when I travel, when I get away from everything, like a lot of what. weighs me down, goes away. And, and I’m a lot lighter and, um, I just feel a lot better internally and, and all that stuff. So I think coming home to my office is like a little rough, even though I love my office. [00:33:19] Jeff: And speaking of offices getting dirty, there’s actually a point where. I changed my fans and it blew down a painting on my shelf that blew down a little baby lost cause aloe plant that I’ve been trying to like nurse back to life, um, which broke on the floor and I left it there for two days. And finally, my wife came in and she’s like, we have this policy in our house where like, if someone’s like, say you’re like, you’re, you know, you’re trying to make your breakfast and you drop an egg on the floor, like we have a policy, all four of us, the deal is like if that happens, someone, whoever’s closest steps in and cleans it up. [00:33:52] Jeff: Like it’s not, it’s like not the, the person who’s demoralized, but like someone else steps in cause they’re not mad. They’re not like [00:34:00] frustrated. They’re not like whatever. And so Laurel hadn’t been in my office in a couple of days and she’s like, let me get that for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And actually having her do that and realizing that I had left it there for a couple days, which I’m sure to some people listening is like incomprehensible, um, helped me to just like, okay, I’m actually just going to clean this whole place up. [00:34:20] Jeff: And, and that was, that was so helpful. So anyway, um, I just, I’m just relating to that thing about cleaning. For me, it’s my office because I have a family of four. And so, and I’m kind of like the homemaker on the main floor. Um, and so I am the one that cleans. And so I feel like if I don’t clean every day, that shit gets crazy because I don’t know what you know about teenage boys, but like, let me just say they make a lot of. [00:34:44] Jeff: Footprints. [00:34:45] Christina: gonna, I was gonna say, all I know about them is that, that I feel like they would like, I feel like a lot, a lot of mess, a lot of smells, a lot of, a lot of, uh, stains of unknown origins. [00:34:56] Jeff: Yeah. And like, honestly, like the crazy [00:35:00] thing is like, this was my wife’s idea, but it worked like four years ago. She’s like, let’s give them both a job at the end of the day. So like after every dinner, one has the job of putting away all the food and the other one does the dishes. And they’ve done that consistently for years, which is insane. [00:35:14] Jeff: And no, every night it’s the same job for years. But like, even with that. The house gets insane, right? Like, so yes, they are. But, but Christina, to your point about the mess, like they live in the basement. So it’s mostly the basement that feels [00:35:29] Christina: Oh, that’s, see, oh, and that’s, okay, you guys are so smart, like, you and Laurel are so smart for doing that, like, A, like, lucky to, like, have the basement, and B, like, put, like, the teenage boys, like, or even just, like, like, whatever age they are, like, even, like, preteen, like, like, through, like, young teenage through, like, high school age boys, like, in the basement, that’s perfect. [00:35:48] Jeff: We wanted them to have that in, [00:35:49] Christina: No, that’s great for them. I was going to say they have a great, great space for them to grow and kind of enjoy and have their own space. But also like then you don’t have to like walk in on like the [00:36:00] porn watching. [00:36:00] Jeff: Anything. I don’t know what I’d be. Yeah, I know. I don’t even think about that. Um, yeah, totally. But also, you know, when we finished that basement about two months before COVID. And so otherwise, it was just a nasty raw basement, you know, a little damp, whatever. Anyway, last thing I’ll say is just because we were talking about this before the show. [00:36:17] Jeff: And Christina, you were talking about med changes. Like, it’s like, I’m at a point where I hate to even admit this, but I haven’t made a it. This isn’t the part I hate to admit, I haven’t made a med change in quite a while, I just did make one and I have been a difficult person for like the three days I’ve been off that medication and it only occurred to like both of us today. [00:36:38] Jeff: It’s like, wait, hold on. This like kind of terrible three days corresponds with this medication change. And man, I know you both have experiences. I just feel like, how is it possible? That after all this time and all these experiences I’ve had, especially my couple years of trying to land on the right sort of combo after my bipolar diagnosis, like, how is it possible that I wasn’t like, all right, [00:37:00] alert, alert, I’m changing a medication. [00:37:02] Brett: so weird. I have a real hard time connecting, uh, cause and effect. Uh, like it, it happens to me all the time with like, so you’re having digestion problems. What did you eat two days ago? Like [00:37:17] Jeff: Yeah, [00:37:18] Brett: I don’t make those connections and med changes are especially egregious because they’re so obvious. [00:37:24] Brett: There’s such intentional things and you know exactly what’s happening and then I am. oblivious to how my life changes, how my reactions change, how my emotional state changes. And I don’t connect cause and effect. And it is, it’s frustrating to everyone in my life. It is usually Al who has to remind me, yeah, you just went through this big change recently, because my brain just does not connect them. [00:37:53] Brett: And it can be very frustrating. [00:37:54] Jeff: I think the important thing too, that’s so unique about it is [00:38:00] if you have a behavior change, it’s not that you’re being how you were before the medication, it’s that it’s a whole different thing that might have flavors of how you were before, but it’s, it’s a different thing. And, and this is the hardest part, both in real time and to grapple with afterwards, it feels so real. [00:38:18] Jeff: So if you’re, if you have a short fuse, the thing that you get upset about feels so. Real. And, and that is, that can be a nightmare. Um, and, and it can also like, for me, it’s a, it’s eroded my, my trust in myself, like my own, like kind of ability to say like, no, this is something I ought to be upset about. Um, so anyway, just to anybody else out there who’s had that experience, like it is a completely unique experience that is somehow new every time. [00:38:47] Jeff: And it’s just what it is. [00:38:49] Brett: L L talks about with, with their autistic burnout, uh, that, um, she will like go to her room [00:39:00] to like get away from the situation, but convinced that as soon as they calm down, they’re gonna, they’re gonna understand exactly why it was my fault. [00:39:09] Jeff: Mm. Oh, yeah, [00:39:10] Brett: whatever I did, as soon as, as soon as I can calm down, this is going to be his fault and I’ll be able to explain that to him. [00:39:18] Brett: And, uh, in the process of like calm, calming down and like coming back to earth, uh, you can realize, Oh wait, this was me. This was my problem. Um. And I definitely have that happen, but [00:39:37] Jeff: Yeah. I feel like it would go in my guidebook for anybody, you know, who’s starting to kind of starting with meds that hadn’t had them before. That would be the guidebook. Like you need a, you need a protocol for when you are changing meds that everyone needs to speak it out loud, right? For the next five days. [00:39:55] Jeff: I need to not trust certain feelings and understand that [00:40:00] that’s okay. It’s not putting them away or denying myself righteous justice or anything else. Anyway, that’s sort of my [00:40:08] Brett: I’m looking at the time and realizing we need to fit a sponsor in, uh, can we have a sponsor mid mental health [00:40:16] Christina: We absolutely can. [00:40:18] Sponsor: Factor [00:40:18] Brett: All right. I will, I will take this one. Now that it’s summer, you might be looking for wholesome, convenient s for sunny, active days. Factor, America’s number one ready to eat meal kit can help you fuel up fast with flavorful and nutritious ready to eat meals delivered straight to your door. [00:40:39] Jeff: one already, that was fast. [00:40:41] Brett: You’ll save time, eat well, and stay on track reaching your goals. Too busy with summer plans to cook but want to make sure you’re eating well? With Factor, skip the trip to the grocery store and skip the chopping, prepping, and cleaning up to while still getting the flavor and nutritional quality you need. [00:40:58] Brett: Factors fresh, [00:41:00] never frozen meals are ready in just two minutes. So all you have to do is heat and enjoy, and then get back outside to soak up the warm weather. They offer delicious flavor packed options on the menu each week to fit a variety of lifestyles from keto to calorie smart, vegan plus veggie and protein plus prepared dieticians. [00:41:22] Brett: Each meal has all the ingredients you need to feel satisfied all day long while meeting your goals. And if you’re looking to mix it up. You can add a protein to select vegan and veggie meals. Choose from 34 plus chef prepared dietitian approved weekly options featuring premium ingredients, such as broccolini, leeks, truffle butter, and asparagus. [00:41:44] Brett: Plus you can round out your meal and replenish your snack supply with an assortment of 45 plus add ons, including breakfast items like their delicious apple cinnamon pancakes, bacon and cheddar egg bites and potato bacon and egg breakfast skillet. Or [00:42:00] For an easy wellness boost, try refreshing beverage options like cold pressed juices, shakes, and smoothies. [00:42:08] Brett: And with Factor, you can rest assured that you’re making a sustainable choice. They offer 100% of their delivery emissions to your door, source 100% renewable electricity for their production sites and offices, and feature sustainably sourced seafood in their meals. This July get factor and enjoy eating well without the hassle. [00:42:30] Brett: Simply choose your meals and enjoy fresh flavor packed meals delivered to your door. Ready in just two minutes. No prep, no mess. Head to Factor meals.com/overtired 50 and use code overtired 50 to get 50% off. That’s code Overtired 50. At factor meals. com slash overtired 50 to get 50% off. [00:42:56] Jeff: Okay, uh, two things, uh, about that sponsor. [00:43:00] Um, one is, that is, it’s really good food. I think, I wish we, I wish we still got free food, but we don’t really deserve it because they, they decided to, to stay a sponsor even after Brett’s, like, union, uh, rant some time ago. Um, uh, which, and at which point when, when, when Danny Glamour, friend of the show, Hey Danny, just moved to Burbank. [00:43:20] Jeff: Uh, was listening to the show. He texted me and he goes, whenever it goes, that’s sponsor. Um, and I knew exactly what he was talking about. Um, but they’re still here. The food’s still good. Congrats on apparently getting a number one. I don’t know if that’s evidence based, but thanks for hanging out. [00:43:34] Christina: Yeah. Thanks for hanging out. Thanks for still sponsoring us. Uh, or at least not listening to the whole content of our episodes and just listening to the ad break, which is fine too, regardless. Uh, good product. Uh, thank you. [00:43:45] Brett: I, I stand by, I stand by my union [00:43:49] Christina: Uh, I do too. I mean, all three of us are, are, I mean, like, yeah. [00:43:54] Mental Health Corner (cont.) [00:43:54] Brett: Okay. So mental health corner continued. I feel like that’s this episode is [00:43:59] Christina: what this episode [00:44:00] is called. This episode is called Mental Health Corner. [00:44:02] Brett: Um, So I, uh, I’ll start with this. I fired my therapist. [00:44:08] Christina: Okay. [00:44:09] Jeff: That, which was about a year in now. Not [00:44:12] Brett: Yeah, yeah, it seems that sounds about right. Um, I, I was talking to him about, um, my self confidence and how it was tied to my weight. And he said the words. Just imagine how much happier you would be if you lost 10 pounds. And, and then like doubled down on this after I explained to him, I need my self worth not to be tied to my waistline. [00:44:41] Brett: And he’s like, but just imagine losing 10 pounds and how much better you would feel about yourself. And I’m like, that’s not what I need. I [00:44:52] Christina: needing the opposite actually. [00:44:53] Brett: have been 185 pounds and I did not feel any better about myself. Like I’ve been there. I’ve done [00:45:00] that. You need to shut the fuck up about losing 10 pounds. And, and he wouldn’t. [00:45:06] Brett: Instead, he went to a bass fishing analogy, [00:45:09] Jeff: Oh, what’s up with Nona? [00:45:11] Brett: Which got real weird, real fast. And he kept telling me to just imagine you just caught a huge bass. You just reeled in a huge bass. And I’m like, I have no connection [00:45:23] Jeff: I hate [00:45:24] Brett: to what you’re talking about right now. Yeah. I have no desire to fish. Like none of this makes sense to me. [00:45:29] Brett: And, and I realized I’m like tweeting with, uh, or I’m texting with Brian, friend of the show, Brian Guffey. Um, I’m texting him in real time. I’m like, I just found out my. My therapist is fat phobic and obsessed with bass fishing and I need to fire this guy. So I start with a new therapist next week, actually, cause I had, I had reached out prior to this and gotten on a waiting list and it timed out such that [00:46:00] I will be with my new therapist the same week I would normally have met with my current therapist after our last session. [00:46:08] Brett: So I kind of have like no break in therapy. But my new therapist actually has a psychology PhD and multiple, um, master’s degrees in like trauma therapy and things that I think are going to be really good for me, which leads to the second part of this. Um, L discovered, and I don’t remember how they got there, but, um, they sent me an article about complex PTSD [00:46:39] Jeff: Mm [00:46:40] Brett: and I’m looking at it and I’m reading the symptoms of complex PTSD. [00:46:44] Brett: And I’m like, I think I have every single one of these. I think, I think all of this applies to me. And then I get to the causes and it’s mostly like, uh, childhood abuse. Uh, but the last cause is. Defecting from an [00:47:00] authoritarian religion. So I look up authoritarian religion and fundamentalist evangelical Christianity qualifies as authoritarian religion. [00:47:10] Brett: So everything falls into place. And I ended up looking into, uh, something called religious trauma or. Religious trauma syndrome, RTS, and I realized, and it’s closely tied to complex PTSD, and I realized, oh my God, this is exactly this. And the symptoms of it explain, explain my bipolar. They explain how, how I became bipolar. They explain the emotional dysregulation that is part of bipolar. And it also explains a lot of my attention deficit problems. [00:47:47] Brett: Um, like my ADHD could be tied to religious trauma syndrome in my case. And like the more, cause like, it’s all about, you grow up as a. As a [00:48:00] young child convinced that any mistake is going to send you to hell for eternity. And I can remember as a young child, having it explained to me that in hell, your flesh painfully burns off your body and then regrows so it can burn again. [00:48:17] Brett: over and over forever. And like, this is a terrifying thought. And this isn’t in the Bible. This is shit. They made up whole cloth to scare kids. But I spent my childhood in this constant state of fight or flight and never developed like secure attachments with my family. And then like in my high school years, realizing I was queer. [00:48:41] Brett: Realizing I was pansexual and spending nights trying to pray the gay away and like just constantly sure that I was going to hell and my friends were all going to hell and it was my job to save them. Like I remember being sent to be to like proselytize to my friends [00:49:00] and if they wouldn’t join my church, I needed to not be friends with them like this shit piled up. [00:49:06] Brett: And I could tell you story after story about how scared I was as a kid, but I think that illustrates it pretty well. And all of my emotional dysregulation as an adult, all of my inability to develop like secure attachments with partners and with other people, like it all makes sense now. So I’m going to my. [00:49:28] Brett: new therapist with like all of this under my belt looking for like an actual diagnosis, of course. Um, but like, I don’t see any way this couldn’t be an official diagnosis. RTS isn’t in the DSM, um, but complex PTSD is. So I could get that official diagnosis and it, it, it just explains so much. It, it, it, like my whole life makes sense now. [00:49:56] Jeff: My, uh, my, yeah. Especially when you think about, [00:50:00] um, the relationship between p PTSD and hypervigilance. And I know you’re talking about complex ptsd, um, which I also have experience with like, um, I’m yeah, I was hearing you talk and I’m just like, man, because when you’re a kid that is real, like that’s real, real, real, real. [00:50:17] Jeff: It’s not like, I mean, yeah, that’s, that’s incredible. I’m so glad you’re, um, able to sort of name that because even as you said the thing about burning flesh and regrowing, it’s like imagining hearing that as a kid and, and I remember things like that, that I believe to be true and then that felt real. [00:50:36] Brett: Well, and I’m in this state right now of like, like certain recent events like sent me into a trauma reaction and like just this four days on end this panic elevated heart rate nervous system freaking out, just constant state of hyper vigilance and, and fear and, and [00:51:00] like, Thank you. Uh, having this name to put to it, didn’t necessarily stop that from happening. [00:51:06] Brett: Uh, but there’s a certain comfort to knowing what’s going on. [00:51:11] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. [00:51:13] Brett: One of the ways that I decided to deal with this, like I was going to quit drinking for 30 days. Um, and, and that seemed, that seemed wise, but once I realized. How much trauma I was actually dealing with taking away my one crutch I had before seeing a therapist seemed ill advised. [00:51:34] Brett: So, so I have, I have continued drinking in moderation, uh, for the time being, but I got out my treadmill at my desk and I have been walking three to five miles a day on my treadmill. And like working up a sweat and it has been very healthy side story. Um, bod, my remaining cat. Um, when I’m sitting at my desk, she [00:52:00] likes to come. [00:52:00] Brett: She gets in front of me on my desk, puts her paws on my chest, and then I’ll like scoop her up and, and let her like lay on my belly while I work. And, um, when I’m on my treadmill, she does not understand that I don’t have a lap anymore. And she. She will come up to the edge of my desk and put her paws, both paws, on my chest as I’m walking. [00:52:23] Brett: So she’s kind of unstable to begin with, but she’ll just sit there. So I started scooping her up and like holding her in my arm across my chest and like petting her while walking on the treadmill. Which she is cool with, surprisingly cool with, despite the constant motion. But when I eventually she’ll get a little bit uncomfortable, like she’ll push against me, I’ll set her back down on the desk. [00:52:47] Brett: She has learned my treadmill has a control panel that’s on top of the desk and it has a safety key, like a magnetic safety key that you’re supposed to like clip to you. So if you fall off the treadmill, it stops it. [00:53:00] Um, but it just, it’s just stuck in there. She figured out. Very quickly that taking that key out, stop the treadmill and got her lots of attention at the same time. [00:53:12] Brett: So now every time I set her down, I have to like protect the key in the treadmill because it’s the first thing she’ll do once she gets set down is try to stop the treadmill by removing the key. It’s been very, it’s been very entertaining. It, it makes my heart full to see her so smart and understand like how to get attention. [00:53:33] Jeff: That’s amazing. [00:53:35] Christina: I love it. [00:53:36] Jeff: Hehehehe. Oh, wow, that’s a lot of big stuff, Brett. My, my, my, uh, wife went to seminary and, um, not to be a minister. And actually doesn’t identify as a Christian, but as a progressive. Seminary, Union Theological Seminary in New York. And what she came out of that being most sort of concerned about and interested in was the idea of religious trauma. [00:53:57] Jeff: And so when she became a therapist, like that’s [00:54:00] always something that she, she stands ready to address. And oftentimes therapists are not, they don’t have the background or the interest or the template. So [00:54:11] Brett: Yeah. I’m really hoping my, I’m really, my new therapist was to do trauma informed therapy. I don’t know specifically that she has a religious trauma syndrome experience, but I have high [00:54:24] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I, I, I, mean, even if it’s not like under like that exact like, um, like name, um, because as you said, that’s not in the DSM four, um, I think that, uh, religion, um, uh, it’s, it’s, I have to think probably one of the more common like trauma causes for people who are not in like a war or abuse situation because it is, [00:54:44] Brett: given the extent of evangelical Christianity in the U. [00:54:48] Christina: well, I was going to say in. [00:54:48] Brett: be a pretty [00:54:49] Christina: Well, I was just going to say, but you know, not even that, I mean, like, because, because you could honestly apply it to like many, many religions, um, are do these things, right? Like, uh, it’s [00:55:00] not just evangelical Christianity can be parts of, uh, you know, uh, Catholicism. There are sects of Judaism, um, uh, parts of Islam, you know, things that every religion have very, very, um, uh, like, uh, yes, I mean that, that, that’s the whole thing, like the line between like where we as a society draw the line between a cult. [00:55:19] Christina: And religion is so faint and it really, and it’s usually time is the differentiator, right? Um, time and for some reason, like influence and money, because like, it’s interesting to me. I’m, I’m not going to say what I’m thinking. Um, I, I don’t want to potentially offend people. Um, but anyway, um, [00:55:42] Brett: I, I hung out with, like, I met this, this guy, uh, an older gay man. Uh, in La Crosse, Wisconsin, which is about 30 minutes from me and, uh, I took him out for drinks and like, I had just discovered this religious trauma syndrome thing. So like [00:56:00] we sit down for drinks and the first thing I have to say is like, I, so here’s what happened to me this morning. [00:56:06] Brett: I just found out about this religious trauma syndrome and I barely know the guy, but he’s immediately like, yeah, I grew up Mormon. [00:56:14] Christina: Yes. Yeah, I, [00:56:15] Brett: I know how you feel right [00:56:17] Christina: I, I was, I was going to make a comment about, about, about, um, the, the Latter day Saints and I’m an analogy to another group. I’m not going to, I’m just not going to [00:56:26] Brett: but you’re, you’re, you’re defining that line between cult and religion for [00:56:30] Christina: It’s very faint and, and it’s, um, You know, and so, and especially, uh, I mean, and again, I think this is a global thing. [00:56:38] Christina: Like I think you have people all over the place, but since, you know, we are, uh, uh, Western and like, we are, especially in the United States, like we are a country that literally was like founded by puritanical, like religious, like people, like, like, like, like religious liberty is one of the foundations. of our country, um, either the ability to have religion or not, to be clear, most of our, our [00:57:00] founding fathers were not devout anything, they were theists if, if anything, but they were not, uh, you know, like most of them were not like overly religious. [00:57:08] Christina: Um, uh, and. I think as a result of that, like that’s been such a common part of, um, our culture. And then if you look like just globally, like religion is such a common part of community. I think that it’d be impossible to not have that be a huge contributor to trauma in many regards. So, uh, which was a very, very long way of saying, even if she doesn’t know this specific thing, um, she probably, I’m sure has experienced dealing with people who have gone through very traumatic experiences because of. [00:57:40] Christina: You know, their, their religious upbringing. [00:57:42] Brett: you would think so. [00:57:44] Jeff: Yeah. [00:57:44] Grapptitude [00:57:44] Brett: Should we try to fit in a Graptitude? [00:57:47] Jeff: to dude. [00:57:49] Brett: Do you guys have, [00:57:50] Christina: I, I have one. Um, if, do you, do you have one, um, Jeff or Brett? [00:57:55] Brett: Yeah, I can kick it off. Mine is not a specific app and I [00:58:00] can’t actually speak to. So. Set app recently released a beta with an AI search engine so you can use basically chat chat GPT to discover new apps, which I think is a brilliant move as part of the marketing for this, they highlighted apps on set up that use AI and there are three that have them. [00:58:31] Brett: Been interesting to me, there’s Eliphas, E L E P H A S, uh, which is like an AI writing assistant. Um, there’s one called Plus, which is working with text using AI. And TypingMind, which is use the new chat UI to chat with AI. And I’ve tried Eliphas, it’s, it’s cool. It’s, there are a lot of like, chat GBT. Apps out there that will assist you with like finish you write a [00:59:00] paragraph and then let it like continue your paragraph into a whole piece or, uh, you give it an email and say, respond positively or negatively to this email. [00:59:10] Brett: And it is it. It is included with set app. So it’s free to set up users. Um, and does a great job with that. I haven’t tried plus or typing mind yet. Uh, they also highlight craft Canary mail, Luminar Neo. Photos revived task heat and structured as all incorporating, uh, AI to some extent. So, um, I was just going to say my, my pick for the week is AI on set app. [00:59:38] Brett: There are a lot of apps that are worth exploring, especially if you already have a set up subscription and if you don’t, [00:59:46] Jeff: Which you [00:59:47] Brett: maybe it’s worth it. [00:59:48] Christina: Yeah, yeah, I’d mentioned, uh, TypingMind, which is one of the, the apps they have, like, that was one of my picks of the week a few weeks ago, [00:59:55] Brett: Yeah. Okay. [00:59:56] Christina: and that’s, that’s like a, basically like a chat GBT front end, what I like about it, [01:00:00] or, or Anthropic, what I like about it is that you can actually bring your own um, Um, open a I, uh, I think they give you a certain number of, of things for free from set up to, to use it. [01:00:10] Christina: But if you have a, an open AI API, uh, key, you can use that too. And, and I do, I also, I’ve been paying for chat GPT plus, but I might actually cancel that subscription and just keep. Paying as you go for the open AI stuff. Um, uh, I’ve been looking, I haven’t seen anything yet. Llama 2, uh, meta announced that this week and that is their new, um, large language model, um, that they’ve basically made, um, um, uh, freely available. [01:00:39] Christina: Uh, it’s not, it’s technically not open source, but, uh, as long as you have under 700 million global, um, uh, or monthly average users, um, you can use it for free for commercial or research purposes and you can host it locally. Or you can like, like Azure, uh, is going to have like a hosted, um, or already has like a hosted version and there’s, [01:01:00] um, AWS or whatever hugging face. [01:01:02] Christina: But, um, I, I haven’t looked super closely yet to see if people are, have, cause it’s, it’s a whole, it’s, it’s, it’s like GPT 3. 5 is, is, um, what a lot of people are comparing it to. And so I’m. Um, you know, uh, like hugging, um, face has created a chat bot and there’ve been some other things, but I haven’t, I haven’t seen like a good Mac front end yet for some of the tools people have done, but I’m keeping my eye, my eye out for that. [01:01:29] Christina: And I think that that’s going to become the big thing that we see a lot of people, uh, implementing because it is free, um, or freely available, you know? So a lot of people I think are going to be using that as kind of their, their backend for, um, A lot of these projects, uh, moving forward, I expect that we’ll see a big explosion [01:01:48] Brett: So if you get, if you get more than what, what is that arbitrary 700 million, [01:01:54] Christina: I mean, cause it was, it was [01:01:55] Brett: they, will they price you out at that point? [01:01:58] Christina: you have to have a special license from [01:02:00] them is what they say. [01:02:00] Brett: Sure. But you would think like once you have 700 million users, you would be able to charge a reasonable amount to pay a reasonable fee to use [01:02:08] Christina: it’s very clearly designed to target two companies specifically, uh, the first being Snapchat and the second being TikTok, because those have over 700 million users. [01:02:18] Brett: Dude, I just figured out what Snapchat is for. It took me this long to realize it’s all about sexting. Like, I never, I never understood this. I didn’t know this. I, I just, I set up my, I know, right? Like, it seems so obvious when you realize it, but like, everyone kept asking me, Are you on Snapchat? [01:02:39] Brett: Are you on Snapchat? And I’m like, no. So I finally, I set up an account, and like, this doesn’t make any sense. All my shit disappears, like, as soon as I send it. And then some… Some guy sends me a dick pic and I’m like, [01:02:50] Jeff: want this? [01:02:50] Brett: I’m like, wait, no. Now I understand what this is for, [01:02:54] Christina: god damn, okay, this is, I’m, welcome, welcome to 2012, Brett.[01:03:00] [01:03:00] Brett: right? [01:03:01] Jeff: Yeah, you’re going to love it. You’re going to love [01:03:04] Brett: guys, you guys missed my birthday. I just turned 45. I have [01:03:08] Jeff: didn’t say happy birthday. [01:03:09] Brett: I [01:03:09] Christina: know, I know. We had Happy birthday. Happy birthday. We love you. [01:03:12] Brett: I have a lot to learn. Uh, Snapchat is very new to me. Um, I’ve made, I’ve made some surprisingly good friends there. [01:03:22] Christina: Oh yeah, [01:03:22] Brett: I’ll, I’ll leave it at that. [01:03:25] Jeff: Christine and I both wished you happy birthday the day [01:03:27] Christina: we did. [01:03:28] Brett: You did. [01:03:28] Christina: then we forgot the day [01:03:30] Brett: So, so, so many people can’t, I don’t know how it got into everyone’s calendar as being on [01:03:36] Jeff: No, it’s because you put up your fundraiser ahead of time. [01:03:40] Brett: yeah, that fundraiser went well. I, I got all the funding I was hoping for, for the Warehouse Alliance. [01:03:48] Jeff: Awesome. [01:03:48] Brett: Uh, and then some, so, thanks to everyone who contributed. [01:03:53] Christina: I did not see anything on Facebook, so I apologize. I did not contribute. If I had known, I would have, but I don’t, I don’t use Facebook because, [01:03:59] Brett: it’s [01:04:00] surprisingly, [01:04:00] Christina: I know what Snapchat is for [01:04:02] Brett: the largest, so, so, [01:04:04] Christina: so I’m, so, I’m a, I’m, I’m not the right Facebook age. Sorry. Go on. [01:04:08] Brett: The largest contributions to my fundraiser came from people who have no connection. So the warehouse is, uh, in La Crosse, Wisconsin. It’s, uh, it’s an all ages nightclub. Um, I’ve had the owner, uh, proprietor of the warehouse on Systematic before. And basically his mission for over 30 years now has just been to give kids a safe place. [01:04:31] Brett: It’s a drug and alcohol free music venue, uh, that keeps kid off the streets. Uh, he’s, he’s launched like dozens of bands that have gone on to great fame that grew up as warehouse kids. And I grew up as a warehouse kid and he, a while back became a nonprofit and, uh, called the warehouse Alliance. And the goal is just to keep the place running [01:05:00] and to keep kids off the street and give, uh, Angsty, queer, like kids who don’t fit in anywhere else a place to go. [01:05:08] Brett: And that’s always been important to me. So that’s what I picked for the last few years as my fundraiser. And the people who have donated the most are people who have no connection to lacrosse or to the warehouse. And like, they read the mission statement and they’re like, yeah, this makes sense. So it’s been heartening to, to see the donations come in. [01:05:29] Christina: That’s [01:05:29] Jeff: That’s great. That’s great. [01:05:32] Brett: All right, Jeff, what you got? [01:05:33] Jeff: Uh, okay. So in the past, I’ve talked about an app called who to spot. We all, I think we all have at some point, um, which is just this amazing app for, for locating files, especially if you have a, you know, 20 year digital mess like I do. Um, and I, I also have used forever, but have just been using it again, uh, an app that’s a, that called Tembo, which is the Swahili word from L for elephant, which I now know drives. [01:05:59] Jeff: [01:06:00] Um, And, and Tembo is amazing. It feels more like a finder window, but you, you type in what you’re looking for and it groups everything [01:06:07] Brett: Also from Huda, right? [01:06:09] Jeff: from Huda. Sorry. That’s, so that’s also their app and it’s very cheap. It’s like 15 bucks. Um, and, and what I will say is like, what’s amazing about it is I had. [01:06:17] Jeff: I had gotten so used to using who to spot that I’d forgotten how, like, if you’re just looking for, if it’s not like a really intense file search, like that’s a lot of, uh, it’s just, there’s a lot going on to just find a file that like you could find pretty quickly, maybe even in finder, but I need, but you need something like slightly more powerful. [01:06:35] Jeff: And so just like a couple of things that I really love about Tembo is first of all, you can like. It’s similar to finder. You can like, you can actually say how you want your results grouped. Like, you know, you want to see contacts, you want to see images, you want to see messages, whatever it is. Right. They, they also work with Apple mail really nicely. [01:06:51] Jeff: Um, but then they’re like keyboard shortcuts. So like, if I search something like, uh, you know, I work with a client, if I search that client’s, uh, name, [01:07:00] um, I will, I will see everything, but then there’s keyboard shortcuts to be like, just show me today, just show me the last week, just show me yesterday, whatever. [01:07:07] Jeff: Right. So you can just drill down into stuff really quickly. And the feature I love the most is that like so many of these, um, apps or services, you can, you can exclude files, right? But it has a group at the very bottom that is your search results from your excluded files or, or your excuse excluded areas. [01:07:26] Jeff: And, and I think that’s brilliant. Like, I know I don’t want to see these things, I think, but I can always like scroll all the way down and be like, Oh, there is something in my excluded files. Um, so anyway, Tembo is amazing. It’s super like a lightweight, but super powerful app. And even if you use who to spot, like this is a great, like a great reminder that like you only need sometimes like one, one hundredth of what who to spot can do, um, and that’s still a lot. [01:07:52] Brett: Yeah. [01:07:53] Jeff: So anyway, Tembo is my, my pick from the good people at who does software. [01:07:57] Christina: Nice, nice. All right. [01:08:00] Well, my pick is Orbstack, which is at a Orbstack, O R B S T A C K dot dev. And, uh, this is, it uses Kalima under the hood, which is a like container, um, Linux, like a runtime thing for, um, um. Mac OS, which basically is like a kind of, kind of a replacement stack for, um, doing something like docker desktop and, um, what I like about orb stack is that it’s, it’s a really, really good looking kind of like interface. [01:08:33] Christina: It’s kind of like a nice, like docker desktop alternative and kind of an all in one app that basically, um, they don’t have Cooper 90 support yet, but it’s coming really good way to like manage, you know, like, like, um, you know, containers or, or, or VMs. Um, And, um, I discovered this recently and I really, really like it. [01:08:52] Christina: It’s, it’s a nicely native app. The, uh, it’s, it’s in public beta right now. It’s free. They’re going to have some sort of pricing plan. I’m not sure what [01:09:00] it’s going to be, but it’s going to be reasonable. It might even be free for most people. I think the main developer on this is like a teenager, but he’s incredibly talented, incredibly good. [01:09:09] Christina: I actually love that. Like that, that [01:09:11] Jeff: Yeah, that’s great. [01:09:12] Christina: part of it makes me feel old, but part of it also is like, it gets me excited because I’m like, the, the, the teens are still doing it. Right. Like they’re, they’re still building and doing really good stuff. And so, um, uh, Orbstack, if you’ve been looking for a replacement to Docker desktop, cause Docker desktop at this point is kind of a shit show. [01:09:28] Christina: And Docker as a company has made a lot of, of issues. This runs on both Apple Silicon and on Intel, which is great. And, um, I, uh, I really like it. So Orbstack [01:09:39] Brett: and it works with docker images, [01:09:41] Christina: Yeah, it does. Yeah, exactly. It’s just, it’s kind of an alternative front end, but it runs it. It’s like, it’s runs it like it’s native. [01:09:46] Christina: Like the memory footprint is so much better. Like it’s really, really good. [01:09:51] Brett: I’m looking at the stats. These benchmarks are crazy. Oh my god. Thank you for sharing this. I Am a hundred percent switching to this [01:10:00] Docker just stopped running on Synology’s [01:10:04] Christina: Yeah. I saw [01:10:05] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:10:07] Brett: like the whole reason I bought the 15, 20, whatever I bought, uh, was to run Docker images on my Synology and they just all suddenly stopped working. [01:10:20] Jeff: Ugh. Yeah, people run a lot of docker [01:10:23] Christina: I was going to say, yeah, I have, I have a bunch of Docker containers running our technology. So is this just like a thing that just like, like that, that happened? Like, do you need to update the software or what? [01:10:32] Brett: last DSM update for Synology stopped Docker from working for me. [01:10:39] Christina: Oh damn, that sucks. [01:10:41] Brett: Yeah, I like I do. I don’t understand [01:10:44] Christina: you should, you should either go to the Sonology subreddit or you should, like, report them a thing. But I bet if you put it in the subreddit I bet people will help you figure it out. [01:10:51] Brett: Yeah, I’ll look into it. But this is awesome for like, because I run Docker on a Mac [01:11:00] mini 2012 Mac mini in my basement. And, um, and like, I mostly use it to run like my VPN workarounds and everything. But this would be Way easier on my system, um, on a, on a 2012 Mac mini with like 16 gigabytes of RAM. Um, it could use this, um, by the way, um, Mac mini colo, which became Mac stadium, uh, which is a co location service where you can like basically rent a Mac [01:11:34] Christina: Or it was, they don’t let they, they don’t let you co-locate anymore. I, I noticed Yes. The other [01:11:38] Brett: really. [01:11:39] Christina: Yeah. [01:11:40] Brett: But anyway, they have this surplus of Mac minis, uh, like 2012, 2016 Mac minis, um, that you can go to a place called orchard resales and, uh, and you can pick up like a 2012 Mac mini maxed out, which is like a terabyte [01:12:00] of storage and 16 gigabytes of Ram, and you can pick it up for a hundred bucks. [01:12:05] Christina: Huh? [01:12:06] Brett: And so if you’re looking for a really good like little server, like media server or whatever for your home, uh, orchard resales, and I’ll put it in the [01:12:16] Jeff: I’m searching Orchard Resales and I’m [01:12:18] Christina: I wasn’t either, but I found out it, it, it is orchard resales.com. [01:12:22] Jeff: Uh, okay, [01:12:23] Christina: I have, I have the same problem. Yeah. You can get, you can get like a, uh, a, a 2014. Mac mini with like a dual core, like, um, 2. 8, I five for like a hundred bucks with, with, with, um, [01:12:38] Jeff: That’s awesome. [01:12:38] Christina: 105 if you get it with an SSD. Yeah. [01:12:41] Brett: and I can tell you these machines, once you put an SSD in them are excellent little home servers. And it is an insanely good price for, for gently used Mac minis. Um, he’s actually sponsoring my blog next week. [01:12:59] Christina: That’s awesome. [01:12:59] Brett: [01:13:00] Um, it’s not officially related to, uh, Mac Manicolo or Mac Stadium, just to be clear. Um, but he, he is, he is selling off. [01:13:11] Brett: I don’t even know how many he has in stock, but enough to make it worth sponsoring my blog, [01:13:16] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. [01:13:18] Brett: yeah, [01:13:19] Christina: That’s great. Yeah, because, because honestly, at this point, like, I’m not sure what the latest version of Mac OS you can run on those [01:13:25] Brett: I think it’s Big Sur, [01:13:26] Christina: Yeah, but like, honestly, put Linux on it. Like, like, like, honestly, like, for what most people are going to use it for, like, that’s probably what I would buy it and use it for. [01:13:39] Christina: Like, I love Mac OS. But if I was going to be running Docker and things on it, like, I’m not gonna, you know what I mean? Like, I would I would be like, hey, this is, [01:13:46] Brett: Docker, Docker and Plex and whatever. What’s the QNAP? Is that the alternative [01:13:53] Christina: jellies, the alternative plex. [01:13:55] Brett: to, no, to, to [01:13:56] Christina: Testonology, yes, it’s QNAP, yeah. [01:13:58] Brett: QNAP. Yeah. [01:14:00] Like you could probably run a lot of the QNAP. [01:14:02] Christina: Packages. [01:14:03] Brett: yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, great little, great little machines for a hundred bucks. [01:14:09] Christina: that’s awesome. Yeah. I’m like looking at this now. I’m like tempted. I’m like, do I need to do this? Cause I’ve been, I’ve, [01:14:14] Brett: Do I need another Mac mini [01:14:15] Christina: well, I was going to say, cause we’ve got a lot and we have old servers. Cause what I’ve been looking at wanting to do is I’m just going to quick tangent, um, uh, before we end the episode, um, I’ve been looking at, so there’s this, uh, there’s this website and this YouTube channel called, um, what is it called? [01:14:30] Christina: I think it’s called serve the home. Um, and, um, and, uh, yeah. Yeah, serve the home. And, and I really liked the, the guy’s YouTube channel. Um, I like his website too, but he’s been doing like this whole series for a couple of years on like what he calls like, um, Mac, like, like, like, like mini micro, um, like ultra or something basically looks at like one liter size PCs. [01:14:57] Christina: And, um, so there are a lot of [01:15:00] workstation computers that you can get used for really good prices that are really, really like basically like. You know, like even like, like 12th gen Intel’s, you know, really powerful, uh, machines that you could get for like 500 bucks that you could basically turn into like, almost like legit, you know, like servers. [01:15:16] Christina: Um, and, and they, they fit in like, you know, but they’re super tiny, tiny mini micro, that’s what his project is called. And it’s basically. [01:15:23] Brett: micro. [01:15:23] Jeff: mini [01:15:24] Christina: And it’s like basically like his, his, his project of trying to like turn like a one liter PC into a server. And so he covers, you know, a lot of the different software and things you can do, how you can find good deals on these things because enterprises buy these and then cycle through them really quickly. [01:15:39] Christina: And if you, you can put a lot of RAM in them and connect them to like, you know, either a NAS or something else that you can do a lot. So I’ve been, I’ve been toying with the idea of getting one of those to use as a server thing. But the Mac mini is also tempting. [01:15:52] Brett: Yeah. All right. Well, honestly, we didn’t cover hardly [01:16:00] any pop culture. [01:16:01] Christina: next episode we can talk about Barbenheimer if I, especially if I, if [01:16:05] Jeff: Oh, I’ll try to get there by [01:16:07] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, cause I did Barbenheimer this weekend and I have thoughts, but I would love to talk about either or both films with, uh, with, with you guys, uh, [01:16:15] Brett: Yeah. I would love that. Um, I feel like our focus on mental health, this episode is definitely going to have a title related to mental [01:16:23] Christina: I mean, honestly, I think it’s just Jeopardy called Mental Health Corner. [01:16:26] Brett: I, I tend to agree. I think, I think by the time anyone listens to this, they’ll already know that that’s the case. [01:16:33] Christina: ha ha. [01:16:33] Brett: All right, you guys, thanks. Thanks. Welcome back, [01:16:37] Christina: Welcome back, [01:16:38] Jeff: you. Get some sleep. [01:16:39] Brett: Get some sleep. [01:17:00]

Brett, Christina, and Bryan Guffey talk about the social network landscape, a bit of TV, and some Grapptitude picks to love. Show Links Two Headed Girl Huberman Lab The Bear Threads Bluesky Hijack Stream Deck Pedal S3 Files SQLPro Studio Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript The (Social) Wild West [00:00:00] Brett: Hey there, friendly listeners, you are tuned in too. Overtired, this is Brett Terpstra. I am here as always with Christina Warren. Um, Jeff is currently in Africa, so filling in for Jeff. We have Brian Guffy, friend of the show. Long time connection, silky smooth voice. How’s it going, Brian? [00:00:29] Bryan: That’s for Jeff. I can do it because I’m black. [00:00:36] Brett: Um, but yeah. Okay. Um, [00:00:41] Bryan: just popped into my head. Yeah, no, I’m good. Um, it’s, it’s Saturday after the, you know, a week in which the 4th of July is on a Tuesday is one of the weirdest weeks in existence. [00:00:55] Christina: Yes, I [00:00:56] Brett: guys have to work Monday? [00:00:58] Christina: um, I took the whole week off. [00:00:59] Brett: [00:01:00] Oh wow. [00:01:00] Bryan: Smart. We got Sonos. Sonos gave everybody Monday off, so that was great. Yeah. [00:01:07] Brett: I, um, I technically worked Monday, but I didn’t work. Um, nobody scheduled any meetings, so I just kind of like kept Slack, giving me notifications all day, but went hiking instead. Um, I do have, I have a two week vacation coming up. [00:01:27] Bryan: Ooh, [00:01:27] Brett: It’s gonna be nice. [00:01:28] Bryan: where are you going? Are you going somewhere or are you staying at home? Yeah. [00:01:32] Brett: For me, uh, for me, an ideal vacation is doing nothing. [00:01:36] Brett: Um, I, I may be headed to Chicago. I might try to make it to the, uh, Midwest barbecue that happens right before Max Stock. Um, I’m not gonna make it to Max stock itself this year, but it would be cool to go see all my, uh, all my podcaster friends that show up there and everything. [00:01:54] Bryan: Yeah, I need to get out to Chicago cause I, apparently it’s impossible to do [00:02:00] a regular podcast with Alex. Um, uh, but I would like to see them in person. [00:02:06] Christina: Yeah. [00:02:07] Brett: Yeah. What [00:02:08] Bryan: queer is on infinite hiatus, [00:02:10] Brett: oh, that sucks. [00:02:11] Bryan: but that’s partially because Alex has had like so many cat issues. [00:02:17] Brett: Okay. [00:02:18] Bryan: So it’s just been really hard. Like they just have been like dealing with sick cat and so it’s just been struggling to find a time and then Quinn has had to go back into the office. [00:02:27] Bryan: Um, and yeah. We’ll, we’ll get there. We haven’t given it up. [00:02:33] Brett: on our last road trip, uh, l and I binged, um, two-headed girl and it was, it was delightful. I feel like I got to know Alex and Maddie really well. [00:02:45] Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. [00:02:48] Mental Health Corner [00:02:48] Brett: Um, so should we do a little mental health check-in? Are you guys. Prepared to bury your souls for the, the listening public. [00:02:58] Christina: Sure. [00:02:59] Bryan: sure. [00:03:00] I’ve already bared my ass for the public, so why not? [00:03:02] Brett: I’m gonna have a glass of wine while you guys talk for a second. Go ahead. [00:03:07] Christina: Do, do you wanna start, Brian? Guess first. [00:03:09] Bryan: Um, sure. Um, my mental health is, Uh, like in that unsure Okay. Space where, so about a, about maybe a month ago, my therapist and I made a realization or I made a realization that a thing that I thought that I had like processed that was a trauma in my life, I had not processed at all and was still like, undergirding so much of like my, um, you know, like instinctual reactions. [00:03:51] Bryan: And so I’ve been doing a lot of work on like, when I get body snatched back into like trauma land, like regrounding [00:04:00] myself. Um, and it’s going mostly okay, but it’s like, it’s still trying to like, like every, every time I don’t land it effectively, it’s still feels like a big failure. [00:04:14] Brett: Sure. [00:04:14] Bryan: Now I’m paying attention to it. [00:04:16] Bryan: Um, so, you know, it’s in that space of like, uh, I mean I think we’ve got the thing to work on, but also it’s just like really exhausting. And because of course it’s like relational, um, like it’s just even harder. Like it was just a thing for me and myself. I, like, I wouldn’t have to worry about like my impact on other people, but it’s like me in relation to another person when, where the issues come. [00:04:43] Bryan: So, and then of course [00:04:45] Brett: So hard. [00:04:46] Bryan: yeah, and then the other thing is like, we might have to reschedule vacation plans because, um, after I got my job at Sonos last year, I thought I was rich and then was [00:05:00] irresponsible with money. And it turns out that flying to Portugal and Spain is kind of expensive. [00:05:08] Brett: Yeah. [00:05:09] Bryan: So, you know, we’re working through things, but like overall, like day to day I feel pretty good. [00:05:14] Bryan: Um, you know, just it’s, you know, it’s like, it’s like you never know when the wave is gonna hit, so. [00:05:21] Brett: Yeah. All right. Well, I actually will go next because that, that struck a lot of chords for me. Um, I am, uh, first off, well, okay, let me do this in an order that makes sense. Um, I am going through some stuff in my own relationship right now that is making me examine like every single one of my insecurities. [00:05:46] Brett: And one thing that has come up hardcore is religious trauma that I have these, like, like intellectually I believe one thing and I believe people should be one way. Uh, but my upbringing [00:06:00] like. Rails against that. So I have what my brain says and what my mouth says to my partner should be true. And then when things become real, like I have these deep seated emotional, uh, like physical reactions to certain situations and, and I’ve been able to trace it back to like things that were instilled in me, uh, like under threat of hell, uh, as a child. [00:06:28] Brett: And, um, and I discussed some of this with my therapist who was impressed that I had figured out where it came from, but couldn’t do shit to help me. Uh, so I have a, uh, an appointment with a new therapist in three weeks, um, that I’m looking forward to. It’s, it’s a woman. I feel like I’m gonna relate better to a woman than this. [00:06:51] Brett: Bro, dude that I’ve been seeing, um, uh, I’m looking, I’m looking forward to that. I’m hoping that she will be able to [00:07:00] work with me on some of this because it does, like, it’s not just me. Like I’m really happy. Like I hate that this happened, right? I hate, I hate that this is happening in my relationship. It sucks. [00:07:11] Brett: It hurts. Like it feels shitty, but also, like, I had no idea I felt this way. I had no idea I would react this way. And, um, the fact that this got brought to the surface, yeah, it sucks, it shitty, but now I can deal with it. Uh, and now it can grow in a way that I didn’t even realize I needed to grow. So, so it’s, you know, it’s a mixed bag. [00:07:35] Brett: We’ll call it a mixed bag. [00:07:37] Christina: Well, I mean, I’m, I’m glad to hear that at least. Um, so I’m gonna be the downer. My mental health is pretty shit right now, to be honest. Um, that’s, that’s one of the reasons why I haven’t been that active on social, because this is what I do, um, when my, uh, mental health is bad. Like there’s only so much, like I still have to do my day job and I still have to like, be able to pseudo [00:08:00] function as a human. [00:08:01] Christina: And there are only so many cycles and things you can do. And like, um, my way of, of masking is, is not, uh, It’s not like, I guess, um, you know, people who are on the spectrum sort of way. It’s a little bit different. It’s more like I have to like mask that I’m not depressed. And, and so, I mean, it’s similar but it’s, it’s, it’s a different type of thing. [00:08:20] Christina: And so there’s just, there’s only so much energy you can expand with that. So mine has been pretty shit. This the reason I took this past week off, which was really good. Uh, I just, just took the whole week, uh, for mental health reasons because I’m not in a great space and I’m not performing and I’m not doing well and it’s kind of gotta that point. [00:08:36] Christina: So I’m not doing great, but having the week off was, was really good. And, um, I’m hoping, um, I have a, my next, uh, appointment with my shrink is in I think like a week and a half. And when we talked last time, he mentioned to me, There are some new antidepressants that are similar to, uh, ketamine because [00:09:00] they, they do similar things and it’s like based on, on, um, uh, similar, uh, like pharmacological stuff, but it’s not ketamine, so it’s much easier so you can actually take it orally. [00:09:11] Christina: And so, uh, there, there’s like one, um, drug, uh, that got approved by the F D A last August. So it’s been on the market for a year now. And, and the, the studies and the papers are all really good. And so I’m gonna talk to him about trying that and seeing if that sort of thing could help. Cause I think I’m at the point now where my, my medication isn’t working and I’ve been in denial about that for a really long time, like a really long time. [00:09:33] Christina: And it’s gotten to the point where I’m just like, I, I can’t be in denial about this anymore. [00:09:39] Bryan: Yeah. Well sending you, [00:09:42] Christina: that’s the upside. [00:09:44] Bryan: sending you lots of love and hugs. I know this is so hard. Um, and, but I am so proud of you for doing the things that you need to do to take care of yourself. [00:09:54] Christina: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. No, and it’s hard because I’m, you know, I’m [00:10:00] public and in insofar as like, I obviously do this podcast and I’ve never lied or hidden, you know, like my, my mental health struggles, but it’s not my brand and it’s not the thing that I wanna be known for. And I respect people who do wanna like, make that what they’re known for and really wanna advocate for that. [00:10:15] Christina: I really respect that, but that’s not me. And so it’s always weird when it, you know, when I feel like I’ve reached a place where I’m like, okay, this is actually impeding my life in a way that I now have to, you know, like, uh, talk about it with people both publicly and then also like my colleagues. Which that honestly sucks more than talking about it with strangers listening to your podcast or with your friends over the internet. [00:10:42] Christina: Like that’s, that’s the real shit, you know, because it’s, it’s fine when it’s an abstract. And I think a lot of people who you work with are fine with it as an abstract. You really see how people react and how people really feel when it actually like, could potentially impact them or [00:11:00] when how it’s impacting you is something that they have to, you know, grapple with. [00:11:04] Christina: Like that, that’s, that that’s the real truth, you know? Cause everybody I think thinks, oh yeah, I’m, I’m fine with this sort of thing. And then you’re, maybe you are, and some places really are. And, and some, uh, employers. And employees really, coworkers really are, and some people really aren’t. So that’s, that’s, that’s always the [00:11:22] Brett: until you’re, until you’re confronted with the reality, you might not even know [00:11:27] Christina: Yep. [00:11:27] Brett: how, how you feel about something. So I, I can, I can tie our two together in that way. Um, have you ever heard the Huberman Lab? [00:11:37] Christina: No. [00:11:38] Brett: It’s a podcast with this. Guy, I don’t know if he’s like a neuroscientist or, but he does like extensive research into like medications and talks about like, brain science. [00:11:50] Brett: And the last one is about like eye health, but he, it’s like a solo podcast. It’s just him like sharing research and, and talking. [00:12:00] Uh, occasionally he’ll have guests, but, um, I, I would recommend that, I’m gonna drop that in the show notes. He did a, he did an awesome episode on, uh, ketamine and hallucinogenic treatments, and he did a great one on, um, uh, A D H D medication on like Adderall and Vyvance and, and nons stimulant, uh, treatments and, and how they work and why they work and who they don’t work for. [00:12:27] Brett: Uh, it was really enlightening. Um, but that’s Huberman lab. Um, [00:12:33] Bryan: I’m always really impressed by solo podcasters. Cause like that’s just gotta be like to just mainline your own self talking for like an hour. [00:12:47] Brett: by, what I’m impressed by is successful solo podcasters. People, people, people who are actually as interesting as they think they are when they sit down to record a solo podcast,[00:13:00] [00:13:00] Bryan: Yeah. I mean, [00:13:01] Brett: that’s a fine line right there. [00:13:03] Bryan: It really, really is a fine line. You know that if Elon Musk was a podcaster, he would be [00:13:08] Brett: my God. [00:13:09] Bryan: podcaster. [00:13:09] Brett: Oh, [00:13:10] Christina: Oh, of course he would. Of course he would because, no, it is always interesting and there are some solo podcasters who can do Okay. Just like radio hosts. But yeah, Ilan would totally be a solo podcaster cuz he doesn’t wanna hear anybody else’s thoughts. [00:13:23] Brett: Well, can you imagine Joe Rogan, just by himself just talking his shit for an hour at a time? [00:13:29] Christina: No, no, but, and [00:13:32] Bryan: the world would’ve been better off if he did that, cuz it would’ve ended [00:13:35] Christina: I was gonna say, I was gonna say, the unfortunate thing is, is that Joe Rogan is not a dumb person, which is kind of going back to uh, uh, like a thing we were talking about pre-show about certain people. He’s not a dumb person and he’s actually a very good entertainer and a very good like, live performer and understands that for the medium that he’s doing with podcasting, he needs other people. [00:13:56] Christina: Uh, and, uh, uh, Dave Portnoy, who I also [00:14:00] can’t stand, but also have to kind of respect his skills. He’s the guy from, uh, bar, um, uh, uh, Barstool Schwartz is another thing, like his podcasts are. I, I know why. I completely understand why they’re successful. And he’s also a guy who does solo tos that are compelling. [00:14:18] Christina: I hate that cuz I, I can’t stand the guy. But he’s, but he’s compelling, but he knows he’s compelling in like 92nd doses. You know, [00:14:26] Bryan: Yeah. [00:14:27] Brett: Yeah. Should we take a quick sponsor break? [00:14:30] It’s Not Really a Sponsor [00:14:30] Christina: we should, that’s a great segue. [00:14:32] Bryan: Yeah. [00:14:32] Brett: This episode is brought to you by none other than Mark Zuckerberg, the confident, evil billionaire. If you’re looking for a winner in the cage match, and a billionaire who would rather waste his money on failed virtual reality ventures than Fallek Spa space exploration vehicles, Zuck is your guy. [00:14:50] Brett: Head to Zuckerberg for president.com to save 100% on your subscription to Facebook where your data goes farther than any other service. That’s [00:15:00] zuckerberg mma.com for 100% off of your identity. Thanks, mark. [00:15:06] Bryan: Thanks, mark. We really appreciate it, especially on, you know, this the day three of your new social media project threats. [00:15:17] The Social Media Landscape [00:15:17] Brett: the perfect, perfect lead in to, to one of our topics. Should we talk about, should we talk about the threads specifically, but also the, the, the landscape of social media at, in the, in the, in the death rowes of Twitter. [00:15:35] Christina: yes. Yes, we have to. [00:15:38] Brett: So, Christina, tell us what threads is. [00:15:40] Christina: Okay. So Threads is, is Twitter, um, missing a number of features, but it’s, it’s Twitter except you use Instagram as your login. And it turns out that that’s really all you have to do if you wanna get, uh, I th they, they had 70 million users in two days. Um, and, and to be clear, this is not people who, [00:16:00] like, th this is people who had to manually download the app and then opt to log in. [00:16:04] Christina: So, so this is 70 million signups, like actual things in under two days. They’re gonna hit a hundred million probably within the first week, um, easily. And so it’s one of the most successful, uh, social app launches of all time. But it is essentially Twitter mixing a bunch of features. And again, it’s kind of telling that you can literally do the bare minimum, like all these Twitter clones, Macedon, blue Sky, uh, what’s, what’s the queer one, um, that, that, uh, has been in, in, um, invite only status? [00:16:34] Bryan: Is that spill? [00:16:36] Christina: Yes. Spill, uh, a bunch of other ones, like all, all these things that have tried, uh, post, um, there’s, uh, t2, all these things, like they had to like, go out of their way to really be like, oh, look at all these features and look at this and that. And then like, if you have the network effect, you can literally do the minimum viable product that is real minimal and you can get 70 million plus users [00:17:00] in two days. [00:17:02] Bryan: Yeah, it’s, it’s fascinating. I listened to two podcasts where Adam er was on, um, I think Hard Fork and then [00:17:16] Christina: It’s the bcast. [00:17:17] Bryan: the Vergecast. Yeah. And it, it’s fascinating. Um, I It’s very interesting that, [00:17:24] Christina: Oh, oh. And just for clarification, Atmos runs Instagram, um, at Facebook. Sorry, go on. [00:17:29] Bryan: Yeah. And Adam Aria is a very interesting man because like Adam Aria is the one who’s like, we’re gonna change everything about Instagram. [00:17:35] Bryan: And everybody hated him. And then he is like, no, we’re not. Um, um, so he’s used to, he’s used to like getting out there and saying things that people may not like. But this was one, I think what’s really interesting to me is that they’re trying to create Twitter, but not about news. [00:17:53] Christina: Yeah. Well, I mean, that’s what they say. I, I, I, I wonder how much of that has to do [00:18:00] with a, the EU lawsuit, which is ongoing. So this is interesting. 70 million users, and if you live in Europe, you can’t even sign up unless you use an Apple ID or Google Play account that is not based in the eu. Um, which, look, even if you agree with the EU on this, my personal opinion, this is just the American and me, I think that banning apps from app stores based on their country and whatnot, I think that’s bullshit. [00:18:22] Christina: I think it’s bullshit when China does it. Uh, if the US tries to ban TikTok, I think it’s bullshit. I think it’s bullshit When the EU does it, like honestly, that’s some draconian, like, like level, just like that’s, that’s fucked. But putting that aside, I wonder if this whole statement about saying, oh, we don’t wanna be about news. [00:18:40] Christina: It’s not worth a small amount of money for us, is because of the lawsuits they’re in, where they might have to pay publishers and people per post or whatever. [00:18:48] Bryan: thing too. [00:18:49] Christina: Yeah, the Canada thing. Exactly. So I wonder if it’s not so much that they care or they wanna discourage it, but if they’re just like, we have to very publicly make it clear, cuz like [00:19:00] Twitter famously changed the way that the app was put in the app store, I think in 2016 to be in news category rather than in the social category. [00:19:08] Christina: So like Twitter actively went into that direction. Right. So there, there was like a, a meme a while back where people were like, oh, look at how far blue sky is trended in Twitter’s not even the top five. And I was like, that’s not where Twitter is categorized. Um, but like, um, yeah. So I wonder how much of that is like, legitimate and how much of that is based on like the lawsuits and this is just them saying the right things to try to avoid. [00:19:33] Christina: Uh, the, the, the government’s trying to force them to, to pay for stuff. I don’t know. [00:19:36] Bryan: Yeah. But it’s also weird because like I, yeah, it is interesting because there also are like applying Instagram’s level of like moderation and filtering to it, which like to me again, since. One of, I mean, one of my primary uses for Twitter is porn. Um, like, I’m just not sure how, I [00:20:00] mean, except that there seem to be all these people signing up, but we’ll see how long they stay around. [00:20:04] Bryan: Like is there interest? Like can you have a text-based social network that is sustainable? And, uh, I mean, it doesn’t have to be that big in the scheme of Facebook for it to matter or Instagram for it to matter, but that like people will use and doesn’t get boring if you’re not getting into fights about news or looking at porn. [00:20:25] Christina: Yeah, no, I think that’s a good point, Brett, your thoughts because I I, I, I have many thoughts on this, but I, I don’t wanna dominate this [00:20:33] Brett: No, no. Please, please continue. [00:20:35] Christina: okay. So I totally agree with you, and I think this is this interesting thing. And so I’ve been working on this thesis in my mind basically since this launched. [00:20:42] Christina: And. Even the fact that at like, I’m embarrassed by this, I was like, user like 444,000, which to me is way, way high. Like on any social network, like I feel like I should be way lower on the list. MG Segler who wrote a great post for his, um, blog, um, [00:21:00] 500 words ish, though I think it was more than 500 words. [00:21:02] Christina: He had a really great analysis that has usually with MG stuff is like everything I’ve been saying in group chats, but didn’t actually take the time to write because that’s why he is great. He actually gets the words out. But he was, you know, he’d been in Europe and so he was like overnight, so he’s like user 1 million or something. [00:21:19] Christina: And he was mad about that and, and I [00:21:21] Bryan: 710,000. [00:21:23] Christina: right, and see we’re early adopters and this is the thing, I kind of had this, the epiphany over the last few days. I don’t think threads is for posters. I think it’s for Normies. And that’s interesting. [00:21:35] Bryan: for normies? Yeah. [00:21:36] Christina: I think it is. And, and the thing is, is I, I look as a poster. [00:21:41] Christina: I don’t like that. And I feel alienated and, and I feel wronged and I feel like this isn’t a place for me. But then I have to look at where the social landscape is today, and I have to ask myself and be very honest to say the moment that allowed. Twitter 1.0 to [00:22:00] exist, has that passed? And, and would you even be able to, if you didn’t have, you know, the monopolies of, of scale and whatnot, and you didn’t have the Elon Musk bullshit and whatnot, could you even create like what, what Twitter 1.0 is now? [00:22:12] Christina: Like would the, the landscape that exists now except it, and I don’t think it would. And so there’s a part of me that, even though I’m always going to be skeptical about what the long-term interest in these sorts of things is, because I think Twitter’s a great example of this where, you know, like the number of people who logged up, signed up for Twitter accounts in 2011 and then posted a few times, never came back, is massive. [00:22:36] Christina: Um, I wonder if there is a larger sustainable base of normies and non posters, and if that’s what this is and if this could almost succeed by. Just virtue of, of getting people that would never post to Twitter to begin with. I don’t know. You know what I mean? Like, it’s an interesting thing to think about. [00:22:57] Christina: It’s not for us though. This is not for posters. [00:22:59] Bryan: and what’s [00:23:00] interesting is I was an early Twitter signup person, but I did not really start using Twitter until 2019 in like, there was a period in which I caught like back to back to back bands on Facebook for talking about white people. Um, surprise. Um, and so like I Twitter being much more lax about that stuff. [00:23:31] Bryan: Like I got into Twitter cuz I couldn’t use Facebook, I couldn’t talk to people on Facebook. [00:23:34] Christina: And that, that, that’s a lot of people’s story. Right. I mean, I think that’s the thing is that Twitter has always had that much more for, and this is the irony, both on the right and the left. It’s for all the people who’ve complained about. Twitter’s censorship policies one way or another. It has honestly, for better or worse, been the least resistant of any of the services. [00:23:52] Christina: Like their, their terms of service and their content guidelines early on were basically non-existent. They [00:24:00] were like, you can’t have porn in your header or in your profile photo. And that was basically it, like originally. And you know, Facebook is not like that and, um, but most platforms are not like that. [00:24:11] Christina: But, but, but, but, but there’s, there’s a, a question that I have in my mind, which is, I think that Twitter had an inordinate, and this has always been the case. It had an inordinate amount of influence compared to its relative size and certainly, um, compared to the amount of money that, that it, it made and, and you know, that advertisers were willing to spend on it. [00:24:28] Christina: And I think that was largely because the posters TM that were on it were, you know, news people, media people. And, and there were some celebrities who would get into high profile feuds, but even most of the celebrities left over the years. Right. And then once it became a Donald Trump and an Elon Musk thing, then that became like a thing that kept it in the news. [00:24:46] Christina: But like, I. I don’t know. I, I don’t, I feel like Twitter itself has lost a lot of that relevancy and in that aspect, and I don’t think that’s really the case anymore. Um, for, for a variety of reasons. And [00:25:00] so, a, I don’t think you can ever, I don’t know if you can ever recreate like what Twitter was in that sense, that this is like the, the place where highly influential people are talking. [00:25:09] Christina: I don’t know if you can recreate that and, and have this relatively small service have this outsized amount of attention and influence. But b, I wonder if you were going to do a social posting app. If the normy way as again, like it’s not for us potentially, like if that could actually be successful just because the, the boringness, the sanguineous, the, you know, the brands, the, you know, like Normy, you know, photos, the, the lack of nudes, the lack of, you know, threatening to, to, you know, um, set people on fire, you know, um, would, would be able to, to work because I mean, it works for Instagram, it works for TikTok. [00:25:50] Christina: You know, YouTube is a little more lax, but you know, those, these are all the platforms that thrive and they’re much more Normy based, so I don’t know. [00:25:58] Brett: How does Threads [00:26:00] launch without hashtag support? That’s some Twitter [00:26:03] Bryan: Well, but who? But who? That’s because the normies don’t care about hashtags. [00:26:07] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they say it’s on the roadmap. Here’s my read. They’ve been working on this for a while. I think that they took advantage of the fact that when, when Twitter last week, for the various reasons, you know, turned off its scraping stuff, which also now based on the, the lawsuit that that Musk is threatening, might be tied to what they thought threads was gonna do. [00:26:27] Christina: I think that they pushed up the launch. [00:26:29] Brett: well in the rate limits on Twitter, what, who’s whose brilliant idea was that, I gotta assume, must decided we’re gonna limit how many tweets people can read. That’s just fucking dumb. [00:26:42] Bryan: I, I read that what I read from somebody, and I’ll see if I can find the link, but they were talking to somebody who used to be a Twitter sre and they were talking about how. If, first of all, it’s unlikely that the cover story, [00:27:00] like the, the, oh, we are getting all our data scrapes, so we’re going to block that is the real reason. [00:27:06] Bryan: And, and it’s much more that like things were starting to not work well in a way, and that they needed to throttle the system usage and they, and somebody was saying like, that means that like a lot of things are going wrong. [00:27:21] Christina: Right, right. I, I, I think, I think that’s probably correct. I think part of it was about cover story. I do wonder, especially with how quickly they had the lawsuit, um, threat planned and, and the language that was used there. If they got word that maybe threads was expanding their beta. They started thinking, okay, we know we have a number of former employees working there and we are concerned that threads might be scraping us or some other things. [00:27:48] Christina: Cuz there were a lot of Twitter scraping sites. Um, but I don’t, I don’t think they impacted, I, I don’t know if they impacted performance or anything else. And if that was, you know, kind of his like impulsive, well we must shut down [00:28:00] this, this potential competitor. And instead all he really did was potentially accelerate. [00:28:04] Christina: This is again, all my, uh, unfounded speculation. So do not take any of this as, as anything that is for anything more than that. Is, this is completely unfounded. Basically was like, okay, this is backing and, and threads launch. Cause I have a feeling that Threads wasn’t planned to launch the, the week that it launched. [00:28:24] Christina: I have [00:28:24] Bryan: No, I think they even literally said that that was the case. [00:28:27] Christina: Yeah, I mean, I think they took advantage of, of the moment that, that all this is happening. And, um, that’s, if, if you are the, a sensible, you know, on paper CEO of Twitter who is trying to reassure advertisers and sign them back up and then your real boss, um, cuts off the API or throttles how many posts people can see, doesn’t let people view things logged in, all things that advertisers are going to hate. [00:28:53] Christina: And then the company that literally has the best relationship with advertisers. Advertisers love, [00:29:00] love, love because A, they’ll give you all kinds of data and b, they have just a massive audience and they launched their text thing and they don’t have ads yet, but they’re already talking to brands. Man, wow. [00:29:11] Christina: That, that would make your job as the on-paper CEO really hard, wouldn’t it? Because [00:29:15] Brett: Yeah. [00:29:17] Christina: if you have so much spend to do on, on a text platform, I don’t think you’re gonna spend it on both, you know, [00:29:23] Bryan: Yeah. And this is what, this is what Facebook or Meta is good at, is like the operational excellence of being able to be like, all right, we’re gonna launch this thing early. We’re gonna make it happen. You know? [00:29:38] Christina: And it broke a little bit, but it stayed up. Like there were errors, but it was so impressive to see that number of users coming. And yes, there were errors and it was janky, and I was like, I can’t even drag this because this is literally the best I’ve ever seen. Can you even imagine onboarding 70 million users in two days?[00:30:00] [00:30:00] Christina: Like that’s unreal. [00:30:02] Bryan: about what happened to Blue Sky right after the rate limits happened. So like, I mean, as we, we can expand our conversation into some of these other social networks. There’s the, the, the, the most buzzies before. Threads was Blue Sky, which is ex Twitter, you know, which is, um, was originally spun out of Twitter. [00:30:20] Christina: right. [00:30:20] Bryan: Um, started with money from Jack Dorsey and Twitter I think actually just took a new, uh, 8 million seed round. [00:30:28] Christina: Yep. [00:30:29] Bryan: Um, [00:30:30] Christina: announced the day threads launched. Awful timing. I felt, I felt so bad for them. I felt so bad for them. [00:30:35] Bryan: um, and the reason probably they announced it that day was the two days before that they were getting hammered left and right because everybody was jumping to Blue Sky because of the, because of the rate limits on Twitter. Um, I think, I mean Blue Sky, I think Blue Sky is very weird. [00:30:55] Brett: I agree. [00:30:56] Bryan: It’s like, again, it still feels like Twitter for Normies to some [00:30:59] Brett: I, [00:31:00] I don’t cotton, I, I don’t cotton to it. [00:31:02] Bryan: Twitter for shit posters. [00:31:04] Christina: Yeah. I [00:31:04] Brett: Jake, Jake Tapin. That’s about the only good thing about Blue. [00:31:07] Christina: I, I, I was gonna say Blue Sky is for posters, literally Blue Sky. It’s, it’s like, I feel like Blue Sky and Threads are like the, are opposite size of the same coin. Like one is explicitly for posters, one is explicitly for Normies, and I think that this is what’s sort of frustrating is that Twitter was that happy medium and I don’t know if we can ever have that again. [00:31:27] Bryan: Because like, I like and because Blue Sky really feels like it’s just, there’s a large contingent of people there who are not just posters, but shit posters. Like the, the posters. The joke is the meme. Like, and what I dis for me, I am a, I am an earnest poster, um, al almost to a fault. Um, and [00:31:48] Christina: does not work there. Which, which, which doesn’t work there. [00:31:50] Bryan: not at all worked there, but there were like, there was enough of a dilution on Twitter. [00:31:54] Bryan: On Twitter, you could find everybody. [00:31:57] Christina: Well that, that, that’s the thing. This is what, this is what I [00:32:00] think like makes me saddest about Twitter as inevitable to demise and decline and whatnot. Even if it continues as an ongoing concern, is that for me, for so many years it was my primary social platform because it was the only place where I could be all parts of myself. [00:32:15] Christina: I could be the shit poster, I could be like the, the, the earnest person. I could be the tech person, I could be the pop culture stand. I could be like all those things. And I would have different followers for different reasons and I would be discovered by different people in different groups. And I never felt like I had to stick in one box on Blue Sky. [00:32:33] Christina: I do feel like I have to basically be in shit post mode on Mastodon. I feel like I have to be in more tech earnest mode. I’m still figuring out what I can be on threads. And it’s, it’s weird cuz Instagram has always been more curated, but I’ve never. Invested a ton of time on Instagram. Um, and I mean, I had, I have like 6,000 followers there, which for my standards is like, I know this sounds awful, but, but compared to my other, but compared to my other [00:33:00] accounts, it’s not, but compared to my other accounts, it’s like microscopic. [00:33:04] Christina: And so, but, but here’s what’s interesting. Two, three days on threads. I already have a thousand followers more than I have on Blue Sky, where I was active and actively posting up until [00:33:14] Brett: Well, because everyone, everyone who followed you on, on Instagram automatically becomes a follower. [00:33:21] Christina: Well, not automatically. Like you have to opt in. I I chose [00:33:24] Bryan: and because there is no follow and because there is no following right now. Cause it’s all algorithm. The graph is all algorithmic, like that timeline, there is no following right now. So, and they say that’s on the roadmap, which is fascinating because they’ve been leaning so hard into the algorithmic thing that I would, and actually I think that that’s one of Twitter’s strengths, [00:33:45] Christina: I agree. [00:33:46] Brett: Can I tell my joke? Can I tell my joke? That went really poorly on threads. [00:33:49] Christina: Yes. I [00:33:50] Bryan: so ex Yeah, I saw it. It was so good. [00:33:52] Brett: I, I kicked off my account with a meme that said my friend got mad at me for sniffing his sister’s panties. [00:34:00] I’m not sure if it was because she was still wearing them or because his whole family was present. Either way, it made the rest of the funeral really awkward. [00:34:09] Bryan: Uh, so good. It’s so good. [00:34:12] Brett: It got [00:34:12] Bryan: It’s so good because there, [00:34:14] Brett: two likes. [00:34:15] Bryan: it’s, this is the thing though. That’s because, that’s because Twitter is like, or like, because Instagram, like that’s not the Instagram content. [00:34:23] Christina: no, it’s not. Not even remotely. [00:34:26] Bryan: Yeah, but that’s so good because [00:34:28] Brett: I should note that at the bottom of this meme, there’s a picture of Yahweh, God, and he says, Noah, and the next frame, his eyes are lit up and it says, get the boat. [00:34:39] Bryan: I love that joke because there are three different points where you’re like, holy shit. Holy shit. Holy shit. [00:34:51] Brett: I said, I said the whole thing, straight face to someone, as if I were giving them an update on something that really happened to me last night. And it took, it [00:35:00] took a minute, uh, for them to process that this was a joke. And [00:35:05] Bryan: that’s a tick. That’s a TikTok joke, Brett. [00:35:08] Brett: I’m not onac. [00:35:09] Bryan: that’s, that’s a But you could, that’s a cut. That’s a cut. That’s a cut scene. TikTok joke. would work really well. Um, I saw somebody who did a TikTok where like, and, and maybe I saw again because this is how the world works now, and this is the other, this is my other thesis, which is that Twitter is particularly great for a d h ADHD posters, [00:35:29] Christina: Oh, 100%. [00:35:31] Bryan: uh, because of that thing where we can dip into all of our different interests so easily. [00:35:36] Bryan: Um, and this idea that I have to post to five different social networks, no thank you. Like, absolutely not. do not have the focus to post across multiple, multiple social networks. [00:35:48] Brett: Do you, do you remember? So I have gotten multiple requests, um, on various, uh, networks, mostly on Macedon for, uh, a revival of an [00:36:00] my first app mood blast. Um, I had written, I had written an app, mostly an Apple script actually. I was just getting into Max at the time and I had written an app that would post to. [00:36:13] Brett: Jaiku and Addium and Skype and Twitter and Facebook all at once. And you could use like different codes and stuff. Uh, it had like a command line syntax when you were posting to like determine what went where and, uh, and you could set your, like your chat status at the same time as you like sent out a, a status update. [00:36:36] Brett: And it was in its day. It it was, it was good. It was very popular. Um, it’s how I met like Merlin Mann. It’s how I, it’s how I met. It’s how I got my gig at the unofficial Apple [00:36:49] Christina: I was gonna say, I was gonna say, I’m almost positive that I used mood blaster. [00:36:53] Brett: David Charty, I wrote about like every single update I ever put out to it, like [00:36:57] Bryan: Amazing. [00:36:58] Brett: wrote about it on the blog [00:37:00] and, and people are like, you know, the time the, we’re back to those wild West days [00:37:05] Christina: are, [00:37:07] Brett: where you don’t know what’s gonna win, the, what’s gonna win the battle yet, and everything seems new and fresh. [00:37:13] Christina: yep. Yeah, which is [00:37:14] Bryan: would be great. [00:37:15] Christina: Would, I mean, I wish we could do that. I mean, I think it’s, it’s interesting, um, uh, Matthew, um, uh, Casini, the, the shortcuts guy, uh, was, was writing about, you know, that I think about potentially creating shortcuts so you could crosspost things, which actually is a pretty good, um, rudimentary way to get around some of the a p i challenges, you know, for Twitter and whatnot. [00:37:35] Christina: I will say this is the one aspect of threads that has me sort of excited, and that is that they have said publicly, like their commitment to activity pub, because putting aside the, the drama of all the various instances that won’t federate with it because they’re fucking babies and don’t think about their users and are little bitches, like, I’m sorry, but that’s my opinion. [00:37:54] Christina: Like, if, if, if, I think that should be a user decision, not a, um, admin decision. But I [00:38:00] also find most, most, not all, but most ma on admins to be on power trips because they are like Reddit admins and Wikipedia editors times 10. But, but like if you think about that, if they adopt Activity pub, that then opens up. [00:38:14] Christina: Really interesting possibilities for being able to cross post and maybe customize, like you were saying with um, uh, you know, like your mood, like, um, ice Cubes, which is Amadon app, uh, this weekend introduced like the, the first kind of iteration of their using a Blue sky bridge so you can post to Blue Sky from, from Ice cubes, which is awesome. [00:38:35] Christina: And it doesn’t do everything, but it does a lot of stuff and like, that’s really cool. You know, Manton, who’s been doing micro.blog for like, almost, you know, 10 years now, um, uh, like is, I’m sure that as soon as Instagram or uh, threads, whatever has integration will build that into, you know, micro blog. And I feel like he’s really been on the forefront of the, the, the best options [00:39:00] for all of us of us. [00:39:00] Christina: We try to determine where to go, but yeah, I think if, if you could bring back mood poster, that would be amazing. [00:39:06] Brett: I do appreciate that these new services are, um, putting APIs, uh, forefront in their, in their plans. Like Threads is planning to, uh, be at Activity Pub compatible. Blue Sky has its own, um, a p i its own what framework, I guess, um, that that is easy to work with. Like the, the number of, of integrations is already, there are already numerous ways to post to Blue Sky. [00:39:38] Brett: Um, and that, I mean, that’s what made Twitter in the early [00:39:42] Christina: No, it’s 100% What made [00:39:44] Brett: and I hope that they continue. I hope they don’t pull a Twitter and let third party developers make their app big and then. Fuck them over. Um, although I have no reason to believe that won’t be the case. Uh, once, [00:40:00] once you start making money, once you have the, once you have the footing, why wouldn’t you cut those people out? [00:40:05] Christina: I mean, I think it depends, right? Cuz it’s sort of like, I mean like it took Reddit, you know, 15 years to, to do that. And so you’re right, it might be inevitable, but at the same time, like if you’re using a protocol, unless you wanna rewrite everything you’ve done, which look you could, but that’s a lot of work. [00:40:20] Christina: Um, so. I, I don’t know. I feel like at Proto, which is what, uh, blue Sky uses and, and if, you know, they really do, if, if, if Threads really does come to Activity Pub, which people were already finding activity pub stuff within it before it even launched. So I think that it’s already kind of there. They just haven’t turned on the, the Federation stuff. [00:40:39] Christina: I will say this, this was something that was interesting that, uh, our audience is probably gonna be some of the only people who are interested in this, that I discovered in like the first hour of playing with Threads. It has an export function. I’m sure this is for GDPR reasons. However, it is better than like the Instagram, you know, like request all of your data thing. [00:40:59] Christina: There is a [00:41:00] way for you to export all of your threads from the app. Now it’s weird how it does it, it doesn’t give you a J S O N file. It doesn’t give you whatnot. You have a few different places you can export to, and this is what the weird part is. One is blogger. Okay? Yeah. One is some journal service that I’ve never heard of. [00:41:22] Christina: One is, um, wordpress.com by a Jetpack, and that’s sort of interesting. And then the third one, the fourth one, and this was the one that I tried because I, I thought that it was gonna do it in a way that was different than it did was Google Docs. [00:41:35] Brett: Really so. [00:41:36] Christina: The way that it does it, and I only had like 10 threads at the time, so don’t do this if you have a lot of threads, was that it literally creates a doc for every single post that you’ve made. [00:41:46] Brett: That’s useless. That’s that’s useless. [00:41:49] Christina: useless. But, but here, what was interesting, the media that was embedded in those things is also embedded in the Google Doc. And, and I have to say, like, again, janky as all get out [00:42:00] Blogger is weird. It seemed like [00:42:01] Brett: For sure. [00:42:02] Christina: like, like, like I, I, I don’t know if they found some sort of other open source thing that they just like reused. [00:42:07] Christina: Again, this journaling service that I’ve never heard of. It was a weird ass thing, but I was like, okay, this is here day one. So clearly some of the engineers have been playing with this idea of archiving from the get go, and that that’s even better than Mastodon right now, because Mastodon, to get your data out is kind of a pain in the ass. [00:42:27] Christina: And, and, uh, and, and not a great process at all. And this is like the best of all of them, even though the places you could port it to are weird. [00:42:37] Bryan: Is Blogger just a call out to [00:42:39] Christina: I have no idea. I have no idea. Like, I, I, I, I, I, I assume it’s because they still have an API that they could like point things to because Blogger has been in perpetual maintenance mode. I think that’s probably what it was. I think this is probably something that just the, you know, the engineers are playing with, oh, speaking of engineers, they, they hired Jane Wong. [00:42:57] Christina: Um, that’s [00:43:00] awesome. That’s awesome. [00:43:02] Brett: Who’s that? [00:43:02] Christina: So she is the person who reverse engineered both the Twitter and the Facebook apps for like years and would find all the hidden stuff. But she lived in Hong Kong and had been trying to get out for a while because she’d been public about her dislike for like China, you know, and all the bullshit they’re doing and the protests and stuff. [00:43:18] Christina: And she announced she was moving into the Bay Area a few months ago and we didn’t know why. And then she announced that she was hired to work on um, threads. And I know, I know for a fact Twitter tried to hire her for a long time and I think that it was difficult. I think the Visa issues probably made it really hard. [00:43:33] Christina: So the fact that that meta did the thing and got her out there, that’s honestly, that was one of the, the few encouraging signs I had. I was like, okay, some of the talent you’ve hired to work on this is at least really understanding of the space and really, really good. Even though I’ll obviously miss her, you know, reverse engineering and dissecting all of their app bundles. [00:43:54] Brett: So. [00:43:54] Bryan: Yeah. It’s like I, it’s like I still miss, um, Anand. [00:43:59] Christina: [00:44:00] Yes. Still. [00:44:00] Bryan: So much. [00:44:02] Christina: He was the best. He was the best. And then Brian, too, who like kind of took over him. He, he left like two years later and also was at Apple. But I kind of love that the people, the guy who used to explain, you know, how silicon stuff works to me is l is, you know, assuredly working on apple silicon. [00:44:19] Christina: That’s kind of an amazing glow up. [00:44:21] Bryan: Maybe we can get the real Mac Pro one of these days. [00:44:25] Christina: Oh my God. [00:44:26] The Bear (or Silver Fox) [00:44:26] Brett: So can we talk real quick about the bear before we do a gude? [00:44:31] Bryan: didn’t know you were gonna talk about me, but, okay. [00:44:34] Christina: Ba bump. [00:44:35] Brett: but, um, um, what am I, where do I fit into the gay community? not a dolphin. I’m not a twink. I’m not a, I’m kind of a bear, I guess. I guess I’m a, [00:44:46] Bryan: otter. You’re an [00:44:47] Christina: for bear. [00:44:48] Brett: I’m an otter? I’m, [00:44:50] Bryan: Yeah. I think [00:44:50] Brett: aren’t I too old to be an otter? [00:44:52] Bryan: Uh, no otter’s, not necessarily age. Um, you could also be, I mean, [00:45:00] uh, you could maybe be like a wolf. [00:45:03] Brett: Oh, like a, like a f like a silver fox. [00:45:07] Bryan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, [00:45:09] Christina: Oh. Or he could be like, he’d be like a silver daddy is, or what? What’s the [00:45:12] Bryan: yeah, yeah, yeah. Silver fox. So like, Anderson Cooper is a silver fox, but Anderson Cooper is like a vi, like Anderson Cooper is like, you would be like a silver wolf, I would say, because like Anderson Cooper is too pretty. [00:45:26] Brett: What do you call a fat fox? [00:45:31] Bryan: I don’t know. [00:45:32] Brett: Um, so anyway, uh, the, the latest season of the bear came out on Hulu and I had been anxiously awaiting it cuz it’s honestly some of the best writing. On TV right now, and there is an episode in the middle of the season, uh, that’s a flashback to kind of like, uh, Carmen’s origin story, his family. And like you see like where Mikey, his brother who died, fits into the [00:46:00] family and you meet his mom played by Jamie Lee Curtis, who does a fucking award-winning job of playing a goddamn psycho. [00:46:10] Brett: Um, it was intense. I almost didn’t wanna watch the next episode because it was so stressful getting through that family episode. Have you guys seen, do you know what I’m talking [00:46:22] Christina: Um, I haven’t wa I haven’t watched all of season two. I’m, So, [00:46:25] Christina: I, so I’m not there [00:46:26] Brett: seen the family episode [00:46:27] Christina: Not yet. I think, I think I’m like the one before that. [00:46:29] Brett: be warned. It is stressful. It is. Uh, John Mullaney is in it, uh, which is just outstanding. He plays, he plays this like, There’s a scene where he’s talking to, uh, the FAC brothers and they’re like, if you give us $500, we’re gonna like invest it in, in like trading cards, I think. [00:46:51] Brett: And, and he’s like, yeah, I’m a, I’m an adult male. I can come up with $500 and you know what? I’m gonna give it to you because I’m entertained to see what you, [00:47:00] what you’re going to do with it. And it’s just like a perfect malaney character. I love it. Um, as we’re talking balloons keep flying up around my head and I don’t know what it is I’m saying that makes that happen. [00:47:12] Brett: Um, I wish I could, I wish I could figure out how to do this on cue. [00:47:16] Christina: Yeah. I was gonna say, what, what’s, what’s the deal with that? But I was also kind of like, I, I love it. I [00:47:22] Brett: It’s happened. It ha it happened to me last episode too. Just like balloons and I don’t fucking great. I think I’d say fucking great. And then balloons [00:47:31] Christina: I was gonna say, you, you did something in one of your automations like this is, this is, you know, it’s probably attached to your, your, um, stream deck in some way. Like, you, you’ve done something in your automations. I know it. [00:47:42] Bryan: I love it. I love it so much. Who, yeah, I haven’t watched any of the Bear. [00:47:48] Brett: What you have to, [00:47:50] Bryan: I, I, I, I will add it to my list. I was just rewatching all of the Mission Impossible movies. Um, [00:47:58] Brett: that’s a good time. It’s [00:47:59] Bryan: I, [00:48:00] yeah. There again, considerably better than they have any right to be. [00:48:04] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:48:05] Brett: Sure. [00:48:06] Christina: They’re like the fast and the Furious movies, but like, good, you know what I mean? Like, like, like actually like good acting and yeah. [00:48:13] Bryan: I mean, give, listen. The person that I actually think is one of the best actors in the face and furious movies is Tyrese. [00:48:19] Christina: Oh, you’re not wrong. You’re not wrong. Look, and, and here, here’s the thing. I, I will become a Tyrese, stand for a second. Um, John Singleton. John Singleton, r i p, one of the, our greatest filmmakers. Um, his, uh, 2001 film Baby Boy, which was originally supposed to start Tupac, but, uh, he cast Tyrese instead because Tupac, you know, murdered, um, is, is an amazing film. [00:48:40] Christina: Uh, Taraji, uh, uh, uh, what’s her face? Um, cookie, obviously. Um, I, I, I’m Henson, uh, it is in it. Ving Rames. I can’t think of who plays, um, his mom. It is a fantastic, fantastic portrait of, uh, kind of like, um, um, you know, uh, black, like youth like coming [00:49:00] of age sort of thing. And Tyrese is exceptional in it. [00:49:05] Bryan: Also Ving Rames, my God, who’s in all the Mission Impossible movies I, [00:49:11] Christina: good. He’s so funny. [00:49:13] Bryan: and also that man is beautiful. [00:49:16] Christina: is so beautiful. He is so beautiful. [00:49:19] Bryan: I’m also, I also just started watching Hijack on Apple TV plus, and that’s Idris Alba. [00:49:27] Brett: Nice. [00:49:28] Bryan: Another beautiful man. Um, yeah, I love the, I do love that the Fast and Furious movies got ludicrous and Tyse. [00:49:38] Christina: Same And Ludacris. Also, Ludacris also a good actor. Like, like, like, like, like, you know, like I, I know that like, it’s, it’s a meme cuz it’s a, it’s not a great movie, but it is what it is. But, um, uh, A crash was an Oscar winning film and like Ludacris was fucking in crash. And he was good in it. Yes. And he was good in it. [00:49:57] Christina: And he was good in it. And, [00:50:00] and, uh, he’s, he’s a, Chris is a good actor, like Georgia State represent [00:50:06] Brett: So, [00:50:06] Christina: what. [00:50:07] Brett: speaking of Tupac, did you guys see Dear Mama, [00:50:11] Christina: No. [00:50:11] Bryan: no. [00:50:12] Brett: a documentary, it’s a Tupac documentary. I think it’s on Hulu. And, uh, it was actually, I think, I think it was like a multi-part mini series. And it goes through like his, his like high school years, his upbringing with like the Black Panthers and like kind of his, uh, ification and like his beliefs and his like multiple, like the multiple times he’d almost been killed before he was killed. [00:50:43] Brett: And it was, it was enlightening. I, uh, I was a Tupac fan. I, I, I could probably recite. Quite a few Tupac lyrics from memory. Um, but I was just, you know, another one of those white kids who, who dug gangster [00:51:00] rap, [00:51:00] Christina: I remember, I remember when he was sh I remember when he was shot. Like that was like the biggest news in seventh grade. Like that was like, it was like, it was, [00:51:09] Brett: Kurt Loder had a lot to say about that. [00:51:11] Christina: well it was just nuts because we were all watching that fight. And then Tupac, who like, like it seemed like he was gonna be okay, you know, cuz he was in the hospital for a few days. [00:51:19] Christina: Like we thought he was gonna be okay and then he died. And like, I mean I obviously remember Kurt Cobain and that being like a massive cultural moment, but I think Tupac was like the first one that really hit me because I was finally at an age where I could be like, oh shit, you know, [00:51:35] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. I, I recommend anyone who, anyone who’s curious. Uh, dear Mama. Yeah. All right, let’s, uh, let’s do some gratitude. Um, [00:51:47] GrAPPtitude [00:51:47] Bryan: gratitude. [00:51:48] Brett: Let’s see who wants to kick it off. [00:51:51] Christina: Uh, I’ll start. So the one that I picked is an app that came out, um, I think like at the end of June. So I like missed like its first week [00:52:00] out there, so I apologize Anders, but it’s from Anders Borum who created a working copy and, um, the, uh, his, uh, what’s his Shell app? Um, a shellfish or whatever, a shellfish app. [00:52:11] Christina: So which are, which are two, um, iOS apps that are, are really great. Like Shellfish app is, is a SSH client, but also works with, um, the Files app on, on iOS and working copy is, in my opinion, the best get client, um, available for iOS. Well, he released S3 files, which is, uh, a universal app. It’s $3 a month or it’s $15 as a one-time purchase. [00:52:36] Christina: And it’s an S3 client, um, that will let you access S3 compatible storage. So things like Amazon s3, um, backblaze, b2, CloudFlare, R two, Oracles, whatever, like anything that that uses the S3 spec, which is most services like DigitalOcean, um, has them. Um, and um, it’ll basically let you integrate that inside the files app, uh, [00:53:00] share sheet. [00:53:00] Christina: You can use it with shortcuts and it even works with Finder on Mac. And the way that, that, uh, he’s doing this is that he’s making it like an official, um, uh, like, um, file provider on NACO West, which is really, really interesting. And so you can literally have this, you know, um, in, in your finder and have like, uh, one of these drives always mounted. [00:53:25] Christina: And yes, there have been ways to, to do that for a long time through apps like Transmit and, um, a forklift and others. But this, I think, is actually a really, really smart way. And to my knowledge, I haven’t seen any others that would let you do this as like a file provider in the Files app on, on iOS. Like I’ve always had to use, you know, like a third party kind of things to do that. [00:53:47] Christina: So, um, I, I’ve only been using this for like less than 12 hours, but I’m really impressed. I think Anders is great stuff, so, um, [00:53:55] Brett: very cool. Yeah. Um, one of my jobs right now at Oracle is [00:54:00] to figure out, they have a, their object storage has an s3, a p i, uh, like you can, you can just port from Amazon to Oracle. [00:54:09] Christina: Yeah. And it’s supported. It’s, it, it’s, it’s called out as being [00:54:11] Brett: oh. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Um, I should, I should definitely write about that for Oracle. They would love that. [00:54:18] Brett: Um, yeah. Cool, cool, cool. Cool. Cool, cool. Um, uh, Brian, do you wanna, do you wanna do a pick. [00:54:26] Bryan: Sure. Yeah. Um, I switched my pick as I was thinking. This is, um, I’m gonna call out, uh, an app called SQL Pro Studio. [00:54:34] Christina: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Great app. Great [00:54:36] Bryan: part of set up, it’s made by Kyle Hankinson, who has like a sort of suite of SQL apps that he develops, uh, in independently, and then also has a mud client, which I love because it takes me back to the days of like, uh, tech space adventures. [00:54:57] Bryan: But, um, It’s such a [00:55:00] great, like if you work with databases at all, if you work, um, and like you have to query them, you often get stuck with a lot of like cross-platform Java based apps to manage those databases. And this is a fully featured like straight up, uh, you know, Mac Ask Mac app for SQL database management and I deal with SQL databases all the time at work. [00:55:29] Bryan: And so it’s really, really wonderful and I really, really love it. I used to use his apps before I got, uh, set up and was really thrilled to see them in set up. And he has iOS apps too, so if you need to manage them on iOS, you can do that as well. [00:55:42] Christina: That’s awesome. [00:55:44] Brett: Speaking of setup, they just made their family, they, they, they made some changes to their family plan that actually, for most users, made the family plan cheaper or added more seats to it. Uh, a rare instance of a [00:56:00] company modifying their pricing structure to the benefit of users for once I, [00:56:06] Bryan: amazing. [00:56:07] Christina: really great. [00:56:08] Brett: got, I got one extra seat. [00:56:09] Brett: And, and I actually, everyone in my family who needs setup already has set up. Uh, but no, I have, I have one seat. I’m gonna offer it to Jeff, see if he, uh, if he needs some, some setup. [00:56:20] Christina: Oh yeah, that’s a great idea. That’s a great idea. [00:56:23] Bryan: did you know that Setup has a corporate licensing process set up for teams, um, which is only $10 a user a month? [00:56:36] Brett: huh? [00:56:36] Christina: Oh, that’s cool. I wonder if I could get that through our, our provisioning process. [00:56:40] Bryan: Exactly. That’s what I’m having the conversation at Sonos, because I’m like the number of people who use Max at Sonos, who I know like, and to be able to have all of those apps sort of like, look, we like to rely on set apps verification process instead of having to do all the verification yourself would be great for our security team. [00:56:59] Bryan: Yeah, I [00:57:00] would think we would really love that. [00:57:01] Brett: Very cool. Um, I am going to pick hardware this week. I just got the stream deck pedal. I swore I wasn’t gonna, um, I just, all I really wanted was a cough button. Right. Um, I just wanted to like be able to mute my mic with my foot and, uh, I first tried like this $18 u s b pedal, cuz I thought for if I can do it for $18, great. [00:57:32] Brett: But the, the pedal I bought, you have to, you have to use Windows to configure it. And it has to be set to like one specific keyboard key that it will send. And, and when I plugged it into my powered u s B hub, everything shut down because it took too, it drew too much power. How does a pedal, how does a switch dropped? [00:57:55] Brett: I don’t know. I don’t, I do not understand, but it’s a piece of shit. So I was like, [00:58:00] fine, I’m gonna get the Stream deck pedal. And it has been great and Better. Touch Tool has great support for it, and you can, it has three switches on it and you can make all kinds of different things happen and you can have application specific profiles and yes, I do have, I have a, a cough button and, and it’s great, but I’ve also been playing around a lot with what I can do with, uh, with better touch tool. [00:58:26] Brett: Um, if I come up with any great automations, I’ll share them in the future. But for right now, I’m just gonna say it is a solid piece of hardware from El Gado, um, that. That does exactly what it’s advertised as. It costs like 80 bucks, which for a good piece of hardware isn’t terrible. Um, pretty happy. [00:58:46] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. I be, I, I was looking at that. I have to say, like, I, um, think that, um, whatchamacallit, um, El Gado stuff. Like I, I buy almost everything they make because [00:59:00] when it comes to the streaming gear stuff, they just, they nail it. They nail it. [00:59:04] Brett: Yeah. I have, uh, I have two stream decks and a stream deck plus, and the wave XLR and a key light and the pedal. Um, I’m, I’m in, I’m in Delgado Stan. [00:59:16] Christina: Yeah. Same. I was gonna say, go on. [00:59:19] Bryan: the only thing I don’t like, I have the wave lp, the low profile mics. It’s the low profile mic stand. [00:59:26] Brett: Okay. [00:59:27] Bryan: And it’s a little like, right? Like, like it’s loose. It doesn’t, [00:59:33] Brett: Uh, [00:59:34] Bryan: yeah. The low profile max in is the only thing that I’ve ever, yeah. [00:59:37] Brett: Their stuff’s not perfect, but for the price, it does a great job and they have a great return policy. Um, and repla, their, their customer support is very responsive. So when things do break, I’ve always been able to get a brand new one shipped to me at no charge. [00:59:52] Christina: I was gonna say, didn’t they like really like hook you up, like when one of your stream decks broke, like didn’t [00:59:56] Brett: yeah, two of them. [00:59:57] Christina: two of them? Yeah. Um, I was gonna say, [01:00:00] I’ve been impressed with that cuz I’ve got two key light errors. I have one of their stands, um, uh, that like, uh, that got, I have uh, the green screen, which I haven’t used. [01:00:09] Christina: I have the, the cam link 4k, I have the HD 60 s plus. This was all from the, you know, um, uh, working from home era. Um, [01:00:19] Christina: I, I’ve got the cam league is fantastic. Um, I’ve got the, um, you know, way to utilize your thousand dollar camera as a webcam. Uh, really good. I’ve got [01:00:28] Brett: their H 2 64 stick? [01:00:30] Christina: yes, [01:00:31] Brett: Yeah. [01:00:32] Christina: back in the day. Yeah. [01:00:34] Brett: we needed to offload our H 2 64 encoding. [01:00:37] Christina: Yeah. I mean, should I had like a, remember when they used to do like the I T V. [01:00:42] Brett: No. Oh yeah. I, I still have one of those new inbox. I found it the other [01:00:47] Bryan: what? [01:00:47] Christina: me too, actually. And what’s funny is that like obviously they sold that, that that business off or whatnot and, and they got away from their Mac roots, which is fine. Um, and, and of course Sarah’s owned them for a while, but like I will always love Al Gado, like going back to the Mac [01:01:00] days for the, the H 2 64 stick, the I t v, the itd pro, like those things cuz nobody else at that time was making, um, any of these devices that would work on the Mac and um, and to this, and it’s weird because a lot of the stuff that they make still, you can find people who will do commodity versions and will work on Windows. [01:01:18] Christina: And to your point, like you just n you literally just described it, you know, like with the pedal where people will come up with like a, a cheaper version and if you use Windows or whatever, that’s fine. But if you need that level of polish, there are not any companies that do it. And I was worried when Coursera bought them. [01:01:33] Christina: But they’ve only expanded. They’ve only gotten better. And I think course has actually been very smart about recognizing we have the kind of premium streaming brand in this space. And by premium I mean like for normal people to buy. Not like getting into the professional, oh my God, Brian is showing us their puppy. [01:01:52] Christina: And it is the cutest thing that I’ve ever seen. [01:01:55] Bryan: Yeah, Nathan just opened the door and he didn’t know I was podcasting, and so I just [01:02:00] got like three more of our puppies. This is Dr. Pink. [01:02:05] Christina: Dr. Pink, [01:02:06] Bryan: He’s a tricolor. [01:02:09] Christina: this is so great. [01:02:10] Bryan: Yeah. [01:02:11] Brett: yeah, I would, I would also mention that the stream deck pedal comes with a box of, uh, springs and switches, so you can [01:02:19] Bryan: Oh, nice. [01:02:20] Brett: tension and the, uh, tactility of the pedal. That’s [01:02:25] Bryan: brilliant. That’s really nice. [01:02:27] Christina: really good. [01:02:29] Brett: All right. Well, I think that wraps up, uh, a good, a good episode. Thanks for being here, Brian. [01:02:36] Bryan: Always. You know that. Always be here. [01:02:39] Brett: Thank you too, Christina. It’s always nice to have you. [01:02:41] Christina: Thank you. Thank you. And Brian? Yes. Thank you for joining us. Um, we love having you and, uh, this is a good talk. I’m, I’m glad that, uh, [01:02:48] Bryan: It’s always great to [01:02:49] Christina: got to catch [01:02:49] Bryan: both of you. [01:02:51] Brett: All right, you guys get some sleep. [01:02:53] Christina: Get some sleep. [01:02:55] Bryan: Get some sleep. That was Dr. Pink. [01:02:57] Christina: I.[01:03:00]

Erin Dawson joins Brett and Christina to discuss how to spend drink tickets, the origins of hashish, Titan implosions, and picks for grAPPtitude. Sponsor Factor gives you fresh, never frozen meals, ready to eat in two minutes. Save 50% on your first box with code overtired50 at factormeals.com/overtired50. Show Links Titan implosion Reality Launchbar Launchbar Gallery on GitHub and GitHub repo Service Station iA Presenter Deckset Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Den of Iniquity [00:00:00] Christina: [00:00:02] Christina: You’re listening to Overtired, a podcast about people who are tired. And, uh, d h d. I’m Christina Warren. Um, right now, this is a great, uh, episode for, uh, for, for you to join us for, because Mr. Brett Terpstra is very tired. He has not slept. Um, uh, Jeff Severance Gunzel is in Africa, so he’s, I don’t [00:00:26] Brett: Prob probably not sleeping. [00:00:28] Christina: probably not sleeping. [00:00:30] Christina: And, and our guest, Aaron Dawson, you are, you are hungover, which I think is like very related to tired in many cases. [00:00:38] Christina: So, um, I’m like the only one, I guess who, who’s not that tired, but, [00:00:45] Brett: That’s unusual. [00:00:46] Christina: It is unusual. Um, so anyway, th this is our show. Welcome to Overtired to everyone. [00:00:51] Brett: You do seem perky. [00:00:52] Christina: Yeah. [00:00:53] Brett: Yeah, I like, I like perky. Christina. [00:00:56] Christina: Perky. Christina is a, is definitely better than like, bitchy, like, [00:01:00] you know, like tired, hangry Christina. For sure. [00:01:04] Brett: Yeah. So Erin, why are you hungover? [00:01:07] How to spend 6 drink tickets [00:01:07] Erin: Oh, I thought you’d never ask. I, um, I have a one person medal band called Genital Shame, and I, it’s not o always only me. I toured US and Canada with a full band, like less than a month ago, uh, for which I took off work and it was great. And so I played like to a backing track, uh, and afterwards, um, so I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the Paris of southwest pa. Everyone knows that. And so I traveled to Morgantown where I went to college, uh, Morgantown, West Virginia. Um, and so afterwards, cuz you get drink tickets, right? Uh, Brett, you’ve played live shows. [00:01:54] Erin: I don’t know about you Christina, but one of the great things about playing live is you get drink tickets. And so [00:02:00] that’s step zero, um, to my, my fate. Uh, and [00:02:06] Brett: drink tickets did you get? [00:02:09] Erin: so you get six one qualifies. [00:02:13] Christina: That’s a lot. That’s [00:02:14] Brett: That’s so [00:02:15] Erin: generous. So one. [00:02:17] Christina: these are like full pores. Like they weren’t like watering your shit down. [00:02:22] Erin: No, no, absolutely not. One gets you a P B R or similar, two gets you pretty much everything else. For me, it’s a Nette and Coke. That’s, that’s my drink. [00:02:33] Brett: What’s Fornet? [00:02:35] Christina: That’s, [00:02:35] Erin: It’s a, [00:02:36] Christina: that’s like a whiskey. [00:02:38] Brett: Okay. [00:02:39] Erin: it’s not a French drink, it’s an Italian liquor. Um. [00:02:43] Christina: Oh yeah, I’ve had Fernet. Yeah, that’s, it comes in like a special kind of bottle or whatever. [00:02:47] Erin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And after the show, uh, went and saw drag, um, [00:02:54] Brett: sure. [00:02:54] Erin: a drag show. So, you know, gay bars. Gay bars are great because the drinks are really [00:03:00] bad and they’re really overpriced, but they’re really cold. Like I’m looking for a, [00:03:06] Brett: You’re really selling it. [00:03:08] Erin: yeah. Um, but drag [00:03:11] Brett: have no other reason to go to a drag bar, show up for these overpriced but very cold drinks. [00:03:18] Erin: And I love the smell of bleach, which I feel like most, most gay bars feature and my absolutely not researched. Uh, take on that is probably due to like after the, during and after the AIDS crisis, um, gay bars get this, um, reputation as a sort of den of not just inequity, but also for like, like disease Yes. [00:03:47] Erin: Virus. And so if you make the senses, if the first impression is like, oh, clean, then you’re more likely to feel comfortable. That’s, I have never heard anyone say that. I do not know if that is true. [00:04:00] Um, but I love it. [00:04:00] Christina: maybe. I mean, that is great. I was gonna say, I. I, because when I would think of like the d inequity with like the, the virus, I would think of, um, bathhouses, which incidentally there was one, like I can see it from my apartment. And, uh, that, that’s, [00:04:15] Erin: steam rising from, [00:04:16] Christina: Yeah. Basically, well, it, it, it is called steam works and, and no, but I, I can like lit, I can, I can literally see it from my, uh, from, from my apartment. [00:04:24] Christina: Um, so that’s what I always think, um, is, uh, is that, but yeah, I think you might make a good point, and I have a feeling bathhouses too is like [00:04:32] Erin: mm-hmm. [00:04:32] Christina: cleanliness would be the, the first thing that you would wanna do in, in a place that feels like it’s quasi legal as a concept. Just being honest, like even putting the whole, like, you know, spreading the disease thing aside, it does feel weird that there’s a place that you pay a cover and can basically just like fuck random people, like in quasi public. [00:04:57] Christina: I mean, I love it too. I’m just surprised that we [00:05:00] were, we were a country found up of Puritan. I, I am surprised that this is like a thing that has ever been legal in this country. That’s all. Like, I’m not, I’m not against it. I’m just saying that, that seem, that seems like a very European thing. Doesn’t seem like a Super American thing. [00:05:14] Erin: Totally true. Speaking of cleanliness, the hotel I stayed in last night, I’ve never seen this before. This hotel was a little fancy. They had the TV remote in a plastic bag, [00:05:25] Christina: Oh, yeah, [00:05:26] Erin: makes me feel, I don’t watch hotel TV usually. Really? Um, but that makes me feel good, keeping up with the illusion of no one has ever stayed here. [00:05:35] Erin: You are the first person to do that. We just got this out of the Amazon, a three box or whatever. It’s for you, [00:05:43] Christina: Yeah. [00:05:44] Brett: change the plastic bag? Because if you don’t change the plastic bag, then it’s the same as having a dirty remote. [00:05:53] Christina: I don’t know. This was, that was the covid thing that they started doing. [00:05:57] Brett: Okay. [00:05:59] Erin: The idea to me [00:06:00] is the plastic bag tells you that someone has removed the remote, wiped it down with one of those things you get when you eat wings [00:06:07] Christina: Yep. [00:06:08] Erin: does. In fact, it wipes. I guess they’re called [00:06:10] Brett: Towelette. [00:06:11] Christina: A moist towelette. [00:06:12] Erin: a very moist, but not too moist because it’s an electronic device. Yeah. And then you put it back in the bag. [00:06:20] Erin: But you’re saying maybe they just replace the bag and they don’t worry about disinfect. I don’t know. [00:06:26] Brett: Wait, so what? To use it, you pull it out from the bag. [00:06:31] Erin: Correct. [00:06:32] Brett: So you are seeing the bag as like a, A safety tab? Like a pro? Yes. Like something that was replaced be that indicates that it had been cleaned. [00:06:44] Erin: It’s telling you a story. [00:06:46] Brett: my head you are using the pla, the remote through a plastic bag. [00:06:51] Christina: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That’s not how it works. [00:06:54] Erin: I would [00:06:54] Christina: could, but [00:06:55] Erin: to be extra safe. [00:06:57] Christina: no, cuz I’ve seen these. No, cuz the, the way [00:07:00] it’s designed is basically to, it was a covid thing and it’s like, cuz I never, I mean, it’s possible. People did it before Covid. I never saw it before. [00:07:07] Christina: Covid. And so I think the idea is to show that they have been. To, to Erin’s Point took like the, the disinfectant towelette, like, I’m not even gonna say the one that you use for wings. I’m gonna say like, the one that, like, it’s not a makeup wipe, but it’s the one that has like some antiseptic on it. Like, it’s basically like isopropyl alcohol, like on a little pad. [00:07:26] Christina: Like it’s, it’s the one that would come in the bag to clean your camera lens, right? Like, like it’s one of those things. And so they would use that, they would wipe over the remote and then they would have a plastic bag, which I’m sure is probably a one-time use thing that they would put it in, put tape on it, and then put it on the um, uh, you know, armoire or whatever. [00:07:47] Christina: So that when people come in, they’re like, oh, we’ve actually gone through the steps and cleaned this room. And for me, what would make me feel better about the cleanliness wouldn’t even be the fact that like the, you know, remote is in the bag, [00:08:00] but if they went through all those steps, because if you went through all those steps, then to me it’s much more likely that you actually did like, Dust and vacuum and change the sheets and that I’m not sleeping on someone else’s like, you know, bodily fluids [00:08:14] Brett: Yeah. Okay. Okay, so you got, you got six drink tickets and apparently it costs two tickets to get something other than shitty beer. So you start with a A something in Coke. [00:08:30] Christina: for nut and coke. [00:08:32] Brett: Yes. And, and then what happens? [00:08:35] Erin: The best usage of six drink tickets to me is two cocktails. Although I learned recently a Fernet and Coke doesn’t even qualify as a cocktail, cuz a cocktail requires three things. To be a cocktail. Much like in music, you need three notes to make a chord. Anything else is just an interval. [00:09:00] You need, um, a spirit, you need a citrus component and you need a bass. [00:09:06] Erin: Anything else is just a mixed drink. [00:09:08] Christina: I was gonna say I did, I, I, I didn’t know the exact like thing, but I would’ve described what you got. Not as a cocktail, but as a mixed drink. [00:09:16] Erin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:09:17] Christina: yeah. [00:09:18] Erin: And then to me, I feel like this might say a lot about a person, like how would you spend six drink tickets? What is the biggest bang for the buck for me? And this is how I would do it, and how I did do it two mixed drinks, or two cocktails, two PBRs, [00:09:34] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:09:35] Brett: Sure. [00:09:36] Erin: right. And then to the gay bar where I get. [00:09:39] Brett: front load. Front load with the cocktails. Chase with the P B R and then head to the gay bar. [00:09:47] Erin: And this was my error, right? Because I mixed liquor, beer with liquor. And now I’m sicker because I went to the gay bar. You don’t really drink beer at a gay bar. [00:09:57] Christina: No, no, no, no. You drink cocktails. I was gonna [00:10:00] say, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, that’s when, that’s when you’re drinking, you’re, you’re really overpriced cosmopolitans or vodka cranberries or whatever, and the screwdriver. Yeah. Which are great. Or you know, whatever, uh, something to receive. For me, it’s usually like a, a cranberry component. [00:10:16] Christina: And, um, and you find out that they, they cost $15 and then at that point, you’re so drunk, you don’t care and you order five more. Um, not that that’s ever happened to me at gay bars before. Um, and then that’s completely happened to me. Um, and, uh, and you’re just like, but I don’t care. I’m, [00:10:33] Erin: And what’s more, [00:10:34] Christina: drinks. [00:10:35] Christina: Yeah, [00:10:36] Erin: And what’s more, they had like the, um, scantily clad women with the little trays with shots on them. The shots are $5. They taste like an icicle. Oh, really? [00:10:49] Brett: bar there, scantily clad women at the gay bar. [00:10:53] Christina: Sure. Girl. [00:10:54] Erin: Oh, yes. [00:10:55] Brett: I must have grown up in a different era. [00:10:59] Erin: It’s a [00:11:00] very diverse. [00:11:00] Christina: I was gonna say at this point, gay bars are a lot more diverse. I, I, but, but, and, and, uh, yeah, I used to be a shooter girl. Actually, that’s the only type [00:11:09] Brett: What does that [00:11:10] Christina: that, that is those girls who sell the shots. Because how, what, how that works is that you pay $3 for the shots and then you can sell them for whatever you can sell them for. [00:11:18] Christina: So it’s a game of arbitrage. So depending on, on like how hot you look and how good you are selling things, depends on how much you [00:11:25] Brett: and how drunk the customers are. [00:11:27] Christina: yes. Um, but, but you have to sell, but you have to buy the entire tray upfront. So like, I have to pay 50 bucks or whatever upfront, and then I have to make, and then whatever profit I make, I keep, but yeah. [00:11:42] Christina: So. [00:11:43] Brett: idea that is. I had no idea. This is, this is all news to me. My drink at gay bars, actually my drink at First Avenue too, like I loved, I knew a girl who was a bartender at [00:12:00] First Avenue and she gave me my drinks for free. And what I would always order was a triple tequila sunrise, [00:12:09] Christina: Oh my God. I can’t drink a tequila at all, but, but, uh, [00:12:13] Brett: but a tequila sunrise is like peach. I don’t even remember what else in a tequila sunrise. But it’s very fruity. It’s very fruity. So, [00:12:23] Christina: yes, it is. Yeah, I, the, the, I do remember that. I just, I can’t, I, I cannot drink any tequila at all. Even the smell of it, I’m just like, Nope. [00:12:32] Erin: Going back to the shooter girl arbitrage thing, like it seems like the difficulty in that for me would be when to move on from engaging with a customer. Because you wanna have a reputation of someone who’s flirty, which is like half the battle, I would assume, but it’s in your best interest to keep those interactions brief. [00:12:54] Erin: So yeah, it’s very diplomatic. Probably kind of. [00:12:57] Christina: No, it is, it’s a diplomatic thing. Thank you so [00:13:00] much. Here you go. You know, move on to the next person and then maybe if they, if they wanna buy more, if they wanna engage, fine. Like if sometimes, like if somebody buys a whole tray, which will happen sometimes it’ll be like, I’ll give you a hundred bucks. [00:13:11] Christina: You know, so they’re gonna pay double or whatever. Okay. You know, st stand around and talk for a few minutes and then give them the tray and then you’d be like, I’ve gotta go get more, you know, when I’ll see you, see you in a little bit. And then like, Not, you know, um, so yeah, it, there, you’re right, there is like that level to it. [00:13:28] Christina: But, but it totally depends. And yes, there will be people who will buy the whole tray, you know, for, for them and their, and their, their boys or for themselves or whatever. And you’re just like, Hey, I’m not the one who has to, you know, check any of that. That’s not on me. Um, yeah. Yeah. That was the only [00:13:45] Brett: At what age should you do this? [00:13:48] Christina: like 20 to 22. [00:13:50] Brett: Okay. [00:13:51] Christina: It was like a, it was like a, not a super frequent thing. It would be like a, an occasional kind of, um, [00:13:57] Brett: But it’s the kind of job you can just walk [00:14:00] in and be like, I’m your, I’m your shock girl for the night. [00:14:04] Christina: So my, my older sister worked in, um, uh, bars and stuff and, and she was actually a very good bartender. See, this is what I loved about it. I didn’t have to be a bartender. I just had to like look hot and be flirty and, and be good at arbitrage, which that is actually what I’m, I’m good at. Like, I was good at the sales part. [00:14:20] Christina: Um, and, and she needed somebody to help out, basically. One of her girlfriends like probably got too drunk or something, and so she was like, literally like at her last end. And so she was like, I will call my baby sister. And I was like, I need some cash. It’s the same way that I was a booth babe once, um, which was an awful experience, but [00:14:40] Brett: you say I need some cash or I need some hash. [00:14:43] Christina: cash. [00:14:43] Christina: Cash, um, I, yeah, I, I, yeah, I was gonna say, I, I don’t, I didn’t do, I didn’t do drugs or anything then. Um, and uh, yeah, but that was the exact same way that I was a booth, uh, a booth babe once was because, um, one of Kelly’s friends. Bitched out. And uh, so I had to do a thing for a [00:15:00] pharmaceutical company and I was like, the money was not worth it. [00:15:04] Christina: And it was a lot of money. It was like, not like what the booth PAs at CES and things like that would be paid, like the pharmaceutical reps paid a lot more, but I was like, not, not into this. So I think usually you’d have to show up and probably like for to be, you do have to have a liquor license, um, to, uh, to, to be a shooter girl. [00:15:24] Christina: But like it’s a one page form. Like it takes no time. Like it’s literally nothing. But you don’t have to mix any drinks. You’re literally just buying shots and then selling them for a higher price unless it’s a really slow night or something’s fucked. And then you could potentially have to sell them like lower. [00:15:41] Christina: And that’s why, that’s why you’re nice to the guys who like will buy the full trays. And it is always guys who buy the full trays, like girls don’t. I mean, they will buy stuff, but they won’t, they, they won’t spend that type of money. [00:15:52] Brett: All right. Side, side, side anecdote. I was at c e s one year and I was at a Nikon booth [00:16:00] and there were half dressed women on like a runway of sorts, and one of them stops and goes, Brett, I, it turns out, turns out I had a cousin who was a booth aid. Anyway, all right, back to the story. I feel like we haven’t reached the, [00:16:23] Christina: The [00:16:23] Brett: far. So far. We’re at a couple cocktails and a couple PBRs, which for me that’s, I’m, I wake up the next morning, I’m fine. So where do we go from here? [00:16:34] Erin: I think the, [00:16:38] Erin: the real fatal error that I made was staying up until three 30. That, I mean, it’s, it’s that easy or that simple, right? Um, and, and was like my college town or like going to grad school and everything. And so like I [00:16:52] Brett: been to grad school, what degree do you have? [00:16:56] Erin: Rhetoric, basically English. [00:16:59] Brett: [00:17:00] English. You have a [00:17:01] Erin: Professional. I have a ma Yeah. I studied music for, uh, undergrad and I, here’s, here’s the, the program, right? English colon professional writing and editing. p w e. But I wanna say something real quick about hash, about which I know nothing. I, [00:17:20] Brett: This is such an D H D conversation. [00:17:24] Erin: well, I wanted to say it earlier, but you [00:17:26] Christina: No, no, no. Please, please interject. [00:17:28] Erin: your cousin. Um, this is the stupidest thing I’m about to say. Um, I wanna get a rumor started that hash got that name as a drug because it gives you a similar dopamine rush as eating hash browns, [00:17:44] Christina: Huh? I, you know what? I, I could believe that, I could [00:17:48] Erin: cuz hash browns give me a lot of dopamine. Anyways, so, Went [00:17:53] Christina: love a hash brown. If, if, if hash were more like hash browns, I’d be more into hash. I’m not gonna [00:17:58] Erin: this is what I’m saying. [00:18:00] What do you call people who are addicted to hash [00:18:03] Brett: why Google? Why is it called hash? [00:18:08] Erin: But to close the loop on this, on this night out, I, I went to like the college pizza place and got some slices and then went to bed way too late. And that’s, you know, [00:18:19] Christina: And, and now that’s when you like, discover that like you’re, you’re not actually 25 anymore. And then, [00:18:25] Erin: Oh dear. Yeah, that is true. [00:18:28] Christina: Yeah, that, that used to happen with me when I would go out with my interns and, and I would be like, I did it a few times and I was like still able to completely hang and they were all like 10 years younger than me and I was like, fuck yeah, I’m so cool. [00:18:40] Christina: And then like there was like one night when it, it, it did not at all. Like I think, I think I puked in the cab, so I had to pay like the $70, like, like cleanup fee, which, you know, whatever. Like not the first time that somebody’s ever puked in a New York City cab. Like, probably not in the first time, but, but might not, you know, that day exactly. [00:18:59] Christina: I was gonna be like, I [00:19:00] was like, you you, you pay the fee, you’re fine. Whatever. Um, and uh, better a cab than an Uber. Cuz those, those fuckers are stingy from what I understand. But um, you know, and so it was one of those scenarios and then I was just like, So hungover the next day. And I was like, oh, wow. You were, you were actually not 22 anymore. [00:19:17] Christina: Um, which was very depressing for me to have to come to that realization. But yeah, the, the late night going to the pizza place. Now, did that help with your hangover? Cuz For me, it usually does, depending on what time I stopped drinking. Like, depending on when I stopped drinking. If I get food in my system, that usually does help with the hangover. [00:19:35] Erin: did. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. [00:19:38] Christina: good girl. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m proud of you for that because [00:19:41] Erin: you. Thank you. [00:19:42] Christina: there’s [00:19:42] Erin: easy to forget to eat [00:19:44] Christina: it is, it is now. [00:19:47] Erin: will do this again. [00:19:48] Christina: Yeah. Now I have like a very strict rule that I learned again from the, uh, older sister who, um, was like a, a bad, well no, actually these were very good life lessons, but like, she taught me [00:20:00] because I, um, especially back then, like. [00:20:03] Christina: Didn’t weigh a whole lot. And so even though I had like a pretty high tolerance, like there’s a certain point when you’re like, you’re just gonna throw up. Cuz it’s just a, it’s just a body weight issue. And so I would have a thing, like if I puked like before 12, then it’s like a puke and rally. Like you continue to drink and you continue to go. [00:20:22] Christina: But if it’s like after 12, 12 30, then it’s like you’ve gotta call it a night. Otherwise you’re gonna have like the hangover from hell the next day. [00:20:29] Erin: What rhymes with 12 beer? Beer before. Liquor never. Sicker. Puke. Be before 12. Wake up. [00:20:38] Christina: Well [00:20:40] Erin: S n l, what’d you say? [00:20:42] Brett: elf. [00:20:43] Christina: Wake of elf. [00:20:44] Erin: Pick up an elf. [00:20:45] Christina: Wake of an elf. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. No, but that, that was, uh, I, I was, I was reminding my, my sister, um, about that a few months ago about the, the puke and rally and she was like, I did not teach you that. I’m like, yes, you did. And she was like, yes, I [00:21:00] did. [00:21:00] Erin: Yeah. [00:21:02] Brett: Puke before 12 into darkness. You delve. [00:21:07] Erin: Whoa. [00:21:10] Brett: So, [00:21:10] Erin: wait because wait. Puking four 12 is good. [00:21:13] Christina: Yes. That’s [00:21:13] Brett: Oh, puke before 12 into health. You, I don’t know. Fuck. [00:21:19] Christina: puke after 12 into darkness. [00:21:21] Erin: D. [00:21:21] Christina: See, that would be good. [00:21:23] Brett: Okay, so I hate to interrupt this story. We gotta do a sponsor break. 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They offer 100% of their delivery emissions to your door source. 100% of renewable energy for their production sites and offices and features sustainably sourced seafood in their meals. [00:24:31] Brett: Head to Factor meals.com/ Overtired 50 and use the code Overtired 50 to get 50% off your first box. That’s code Overtired fifty@factormeals.com slash Overtired 50 to get 50% off your first box. [00:24:52] Hash Browns [00:24:52] Brett: Yeah, I feel like, I feel like I, I got through that. Were you worried? Were you worried about me? [00:24:58] Christina: That was a little bit, but no, I [00:25:00] think, I think you nailed it. And, uh, thank you Factor [00:25:02] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. We, we, we, we appreciate sponsorships are lean right now, [00:25:09] Christina: sponsorships are real lean right now. See, we, we need, if we need, like, honestly, like if, if the sponsors were just willing to offer us drink tickets, like I’d be get some pvs, you know, two mixed drinks. Uh, but I do have to say, I think that you did like nail like the, the balance of how to get the most bang for your buck, like getting like two, two beers. [00:25:30] Christina: Um, or like in my case, I would try to see like, would they, well, I guess this is the question. Would they give you a white claw? Like could you get a white claw in, in, in exchange for P B R. [00:25:40] Erin: I think so. I think [00:25:41] Christina: Okay. Cuz that’s what I would do. I would do, I would do like two white claws, um, or, or another sorts of like, you know, like alcoholic seltzer and, and then, um, uh, two mixed drinks or, or cocktails [00:25:54] Erin: That is a, that’s a great way to divvy it up, just to close the loop on addictive [00:26:00] substances and otherwise, why is it called hash? Did you figure that out? Brett? [00:26:04] Brett: I did not. I looked up, I, I googled I duck dot, go. Uh, Why is it called hash? And I got a bunch of stuff about hashtags and then one about about why like breakfast. Breakfast is called hash. [00:26:22] Christina: Yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m trying to figure this out right now. Um, to see like the, uh, cuz it. I think that, okay. This is what I think that it is. It’s, it’s technically, it’s hashish and, and it comes from, um, uh, north India, Nepal have a long social tradition in the production of Hashish, um, uh, known as Charo. [00:26:43] Christina: And then the, the term Hashish was used in a pamphlet published in Cairo 1123 Ce, accusing the Zari Muslims of being Hashish eaters. And then that led to some other things. I think that it was just, I think it [00:27:00] just has to be because it’s a, it’s the shorter version. I think it’s, I think that’s boring, but I think that’s what it’s, [00:27:07] Erin: Is that an opioid thing or a a opium flower thing? Like what? I don’t even know what it is. Sorry. This is not what this podcast is it? [00:27:15] Brett: is is weed. That’s, there’s an extraction process that turns it into like a concentrated, uh, Yeah, I don’t know that much about hash, [00:27:27] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say, I’m like, yeah, I was gonna say, I was like looking into this whole thing and, uh, yeah. Okay. I, let me just, actually, let me Google. Why is Hashish [00:27:39] Brett: This is great radio. [00:27:41] Christina: It is great Radio. Um, I did find a short history that we, I we’re gonna link it in the show notes. You can read it. I’m not gonna read it on the air, but you, you, but you, but you can read it in the show notes. [00:27:52] Christina: But there’s a sh there is in fact a short history sponsored by Kinon, so you know it’s gonna be good[00:28:00] [00:28:00] Erin: Where’s everyone on this podcast? Stand on the great hash brown versus home fries debate. I’m kidding. I don’t really wanna talk about that. I mean, obviously [00:28:08] Christina: I’m sorry, I’m, I’m sorry. It’s hash browns and I think that anybody who says home fries, i i, you, you’re kicked out of the table. You’re not allowed to [00:28:14] Brett: fries? What? What does home fries mean? Is this. [00:28:19] Christina: you know, you know, they’re like the, you know, home fries. They’re like little [00:28:21] Brett: I don’t, I’m, I’m from Minnesota and I’ve never heard of home fries. I’ve heard of hot dish. I know what a casserole is. [00:28:29] Christina: no, no. Ho Home fries are like the, like the potato, they’re like the fries that ha still have like the skins on the back and aren’t really fries. They’re like the potato kind of bits things. And then they put them in the skillet. [00:28:40] Erin: You dice a [00:28:41] Brett: people eat them for breakfast [00:28:42] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. [00:28:43] Erin: sure. [00:28:44] Brett: Okay. Yeah. I can’t, I can’t weigh in on this because I’ve only ever had hash browns for breakfast. [00:28:53] Christina: Yeah, I, um, yeah, I definitely, so yeah, it’s more like the diced potato stuff, but they still have the skins on them. We put ’em in a skillet, [00:29:00] usually with like oil and, and some seasoning. I don’t like them, and in fact, when I get them at a breakfast place, I’m usually disappointed. I’m like, do I have, can I have another potato option? [00:29:11] Christina: Because to me it’s my least favorite potato preparation. Um, [00:29:15] Brett: your own hash browns? Have you ever made hash browns? [00:29:18] Christina: No. [00:29:19] Erin: It’s difficult. You have to, um, get a mandoline and treat your potatoes that way, and then get cheese cloth, rinse, uh, squeeze all [00:29:28] Brett: that’s, that’s the tr like you can just use a kitchen towel, but you like put ’em all in there. You roll it up and then you twist it from both ends. That learning, that changed my hash brown game, now I can make good hash browns [00:29:42] Christina: My dad makes good hash browns. My dad also makes home fries because they’re easier to make and I’m like, I don’t want home fries. Um, my dad does make good hash browns though. Um, because he’ll do, um, uh, like what is, what is one of the, what’s the something in hash, like meal? Like there’s some [00:30:00] sort of, um, meat that goes with it. [00:30:04] Brett: a breakfast skillet. [00:30:06] Christina: no, but the, it’s some, it’s called something in hash. Um, um, but uh, [00:30:13] Erin: and mash something’s in hash. [00:30:17] Christina: but because cuz I think he uses some sort of like, uh, even like, I don’t know if like there’s a canned meat in, in involved or, or, or what, but um, But my dad, my dad makes that pretty well, and um, cuz he’s a very good cook. But yeah, I’m not into home fries. I will say this, my favorite of all of them, if I have a real option at a breakfast place, which is rare to get this option, unfortunately, but if I can get like a, a, a ta tater tot, like that’s, I love a tater tot [00:30:48] Erin: To me that is taught food, that is toddler food. And I’m not above eating food below my age class, but breakfast, nah. But I respect,[00:31:00] [00:31:00] Christina: yeah, no, I have the palette of a five-year-old, so it actually completely like, matches me. But like, no, I do, um, I, I’m from the south where like, I’m literally from like the city where, uh, waffle House is, was born Atlanta. And so like, Yeah, like I, I, I love, I love like a, a good like hash brown, like, especially like a scattered, like, like, you know, you, you order your, your hash browns a certain way at Waffle House. [00:31:24] Christina: Um, I was there earlier this month for, uh, for a conference and we were waiting in line to get into a club that was where the official after party for this event was supposed to be. And it was a ridiculous line. And then they were charging a cover even for people who we’d paid like pretty expensive. [00:31:40] Christina: Like the conference tickets were pretty expensive. And we were in line for a while. Some of my friends were already inside, and I was like, how is it? And they’re like, it’s pretty shitty. So I was like, we’re not going into this. And then I was trying to rally some people to go to a strip club, but that wasn’t working out. [00:31:54] Christina: And so long story short, we wound up at Waffle House and it was delightful. And I wasn’t even drunk, which [00:32:00] was the most impressive part, honestly. [00:32:02] Erin: Yeah, my, [00:32:03] Brett: wa Waffle House when your friends won’t go to the strip club. [00:32:06] Christina: Yeah. [00:32:08] Erin: my plan to demean your nominally tech-based podcast with potato discourse and [00:32:16] Christina: Are you, are you [00:32:16] Erin: discourse is working [00:32:18] Christina: No, I, we, we love it. Like look, we, we, we were a Taylor Swift podcast for like four years, so [00:32:24] Erin: Oh dear, [00:32:24] Christina: is fine. [00:32:25] Brett: I, I like that tagline too. Nominally. Nominally. Attack podcast. [00:32:30] Christina: I like, I really like that actually, that’s, I think that, that we need to like, put on the website [00:32:34] Erin: yours. [00:32:36] We should talk about tech [00:32:36] Brett: Um, j can I interject a little bit of tech? [00:32:39] Christina: please [00:32:40] Brett: So, okay. I needed to test my applications on the Beta os, um, and so, This time I was not gonna make the mistake of loading a Beta os on my main machine. So I set [00:33:00] up a partition and I went to download the installer for Sonoma and somehow manage to it. Never asked me what partition to install on, like it never came up. [00:33:19] Christina: Oh God. [00:33:19] Brett: installed it. So now I’m left with a machine that can no longer run. Um, well it, overall it’s pretty good. Obviously all the Rogue Omega apps are not working. Um, I’m doing okay. We’re recording this podcast onset machine. Um, I could, I could install, um, what was the last one? [00:33:45] Christina: Ventura, [00:33:46] Brett: Then I couldn’t solve Ventura on a partition and like boot into it if it were an [00:33:51] Christina: excuse me. It’s an a p f. It’s an p f s volume. Excuse me, A container. Excuse me. It’s an ap f s container. Um, I, I don’t care. I’m, I’m making fun of the [00:34:00] people who, who will, will yell at you about that. [00:34:03] Brett: Fair enough. Um, but yeah, so, so. It turns out marked my, my primary commercial application. The direct version of it will not run as is on Sonoma. And I have been in, uh, a Slack channel with like the best of the best Mac developers. We’re talking Daniel Gel cut. We’re talking Rich Siegel. Like all these people are trying to help me [00:34:35] Christina: best. [00:34:36] Brett: Yeah, we’re trying to debug this problem and we are getting nowhere. And it’s bizarre because the Mac App store version and the set app version of the same app using the same code don’t crash. Uh, it’s just very specific to the paddle version, but compiling it without all of the framework specific to the paddle [00:35:00] version doesn’t make any difference. [00:35:01] Brett: It still crashes every fucking time and I cannot figure it out. So that’s, that’s my tech update. [00:35:08] Christina: Uh, that sucks. I am so sorry. Um, although, I mean, I am glad that at least you’ve like, figured this out this early in the cycle. [00:35:16] Brett: Yeah. [00:35:17] Christina: Like that. That’s the one kind of good news. Um, the bad news is because now they’ve, um, I think like made the betas basically like free for everybody from the get go is that you have more users who are installing this shit. [00:35:32] Christina: And then I, I imagine that especially like some of your user base, you’re getting like support requests for things and, and it’s like, [00:35:38] Brett: Not yet, but it [00:35:39] Christina: it will [00:35:40] Brett: I don’t solve this soon, it will happen. [00:35:42] Christina: Which is annoying to me because I’m like, look, do not expect like people to have stuff supported before it officially comes out. You’ve chosen to install the beta, like, fuck you for expecting anything to work like. [00:35:54] Christina: It’s one of the reasons why I don’t install the betas on my phone anymore, like my primary phone anymore, because a lot of financial [00:36:00] apps aren’t updated until the very end, which makes complete sense, and I completely understand that. But then I’m just kinda like, well, you know, I, I need to use my banking apps. [00:36:08] Christina: Um, or, uh, actually how that switched was when I, when I joined Microsoft, there were some things with our M D M solution, which I used, um, I was forced to use, uh, on, on my phone that like, um, would oftentimes not work in the betas. And I would be like, well, I can either get email on my phone, which is a pseudo requirement, or I can run the latest beta, but I can’t do both. [00:36:33] Christina: Um, so GitHub doesn’t make me install an MDM on my phone, and so I won’t. Um, but, uh, yeah. [00:36:43] Brett: Yeah. Yep. I got a, [00:36:45] Christina: get to figure this out. [00:36:47] Brett: I got a new Apple watch though. I finally, [00:36:50] Christina: you finally got a, got an eight. [00:36:52] Brett: I had a series five and, and, and yeah, it had been working fine, so I hadn’t considered upgrading [00:37:00] it, but then the battery started to go. Um, I was having to charge more than once a day, which was for a watch that’s just untenable. [00:37:09] Brett: So I figured it was time for an upgrade. And I got the current what series A, is that what I have? I don’t even [00:37:16] Christina: Yeah. Series eight. Yeah. So, so, so you, you didn’t get the Ultra or whatever it’s called? [00:37:20] Brett: no. [00:37:20] Christina: No. Yeah. That thing is, that thing is hideous in my opinion. I know some people love it, but I find it ridiculously ugly. [00:37:29] Brett: okay. Yeah, so, [00:37:31] Christina: here’s the thing though. [00:37:32] Brett: but nothing changed. It’s all the same to me. [00:37:35] Christina: No, totally. It just, your battery’s gonna work better and it’ll last longer. Um, which is honestly, I think the best thing about the watch, uh, let me just say about the Apple Watch Ultra. The reason I think that it’s. Ugly is because it’s very clearly a men’s watch. And I think that it is, it’s a men’s watch and, and it doesn’t like work well on people who have small wrist like me, like me, a person who the smallest band is [00:38:00] sometimes borderline too big. [00:38:02] Christina: Um, so like when I wear that thing, some people are like, oh, it kind of looks good oversized on your wrist. I’m like, Hmm, not really. Um, it’s also sort of industrial looking and that’s fine. I just, when I, when I saw them do the rollout last year, I was like, congratulations, you’ve given us a men’s watch. And like you notice that they have like, no women, like photos of, of them on it. [00:38:24] The Titan [00:38:24] Christina: And, uh, and it’s, you know, it’s, it’s kind of a garment sort of thing. So I’m, I’m sure that it has great features for people who care about running and, uh, going underwater. Um, that’s, that’s not me. Speaking of underwater. Okay. Kind of cop thought, but. Because the submersible for the, the Titanic, the, the, the, the, the titan, the, the Ocean Gate submersible, because that thing apparently, like, I guess it, it exploded or, or whatever. [00:38:55] Christina: Um, imploded, sorry, imploded, um, during dissent, [00:39:00] um, because that company was like shady as fuck and they didn’t have any of the basic safety precautions, which they were not required to have by law. And, uh, James Cameron, who kept his mouth shut until it was confirmed that everybody was gone. Um, and then was giving hella interviews, which I think is the correct thing. [00:39:19] Christina: Cause everybody wanted to hear from him because he’s weirdly like the foremost expert on this entire space. Like probably in the world. No, he’s like gone to the Mariana Trench, like he’s, he did 33 drives Titanic. He designed his own submersible, like he’s actually a legit expert on this stuff. But, but he smartly like, waited until, you know, there was, it was. [00:39:39] Christina: Over to comment. Um, but he like pointed out all like the technical flaws they had, but they didn’t have like a black box at all. So, so one of my friends, not gonna name her, Alex Cranz, had like a really macabre thought, which was that the 19 year old [00:40:00] totally had his phone out the whole time. So like the best chance of the black box would be what is, you know, realistically probably his iPhone. [00:40:10] Christina: So she wanted me to text someone at Apple to find out like if the phone like could survive some sort of implosion and it’d be that far down. [00:40:19] Brett: psi. Sure. [00:40:20] Christina: I was, I was like, I don’t think so. I was like, I, but, but I was like, but, but I wanted to pose that question for, for, for, for the pod here. Like, do you think there’s anything left of that phone? [00:40:30] Christina: Do you think that like, if they got it, that they could like, recover anything? I’m just, just throwing it out there. Assuming that they actually, you know, had the ability, which we is completely unlikely to, you know, go through the, the wreckage and and whatnot. Do you think that if they were able to find anything with that phone that they’d be able to pull anything off of it? [00:40:50] Erin: Yes, and I don’t even think they’d have to find any physical artifact of the phone. Let’s say that they were able [00:41:00] to have their own internet connectivity on the Titan. Let’s say if it’s an iCloud, [00:41:07] Christina: Hmm. [00:41:08] Erin: because let’s say you captured a video or something at the beginning or at the end, or at any part. I mean, that’s probably an M O V file somewhere, right? [00:41:20] Brett: Yeah, I, I seriously doubt they had an internet connection at that point. [00:41:24] Christina: Yeah. I was gonna say that that’s the problem is that they wouldn’t have had any connectivity because, [00:41:28] Erin: Why [00:41:29] Brett: even have radio at that point [00:41:31] Christina: Yeah, they didn’t have, [00:41:32] Brett: local source. [00:41:33] Christina: the way they were communicating with, um, like the, the ship up top was through like text messages because that’s the only thing that could get through at like the low [00:41:45] Erin: SMS message, not sms. Right, [00:41:48] Christina: yeah. No, [00:41:50] Erin: but don’t you, you don’t need internet connectivity for that. [00:41:53] Christina: that’s a different, that, that, that’s, that’s wireless. That’s, that’s different. I mean like, yeah, yeah. Like, like you, you, you could, you could just have like the [00:42:00] ability to send SMS and not the ability to access like the broader internet. Um, [00:42:05] Erin: sos so sorry. [00:42:08] Christina: but No, but, but, but, but that, that was sort of an interesting question cuz I was like, huh, like I wonder if, you know, for sort of conditions Apple will test these things in. [00:42:19] Christina: That just made me think of that with the watch cuz they’re like, oh, you can go deep sea diving and whatnot, you know, with, with the watch and all this and that and, and it’s like, okay, well, Is anything on that phone? Because there’s even part of it. [00:42:34] Erin: Yeah. I mean that be, that becomes, um, that would be death pornography for which there is like this weird underground. [00:42:43] Brett: snuff porn. [00:42:44] Erin: Yeah. Yeah. [00:42:45] Christina: Yes, it’s stuff, but yeah, it’s different. But it’s like, it’s like the, um, Timothy Treadwell tape that people like keep claiming that they found, but they haven’t. Okay. So he was the guy in Grizzly Man that the, the Werner Herzog documentary, which is great by the way, about this guy who like, was like [00:43:00] this normy kind of hippie guy who decided that he wanted to live in the woods with bears and like make programming about how like he could basically like be friends with the bears and live amongst them. [00:43:10] Christina: And so of course a bear killed him and his girlfriend, but he was a documentarian in of himself. And so the attack was like caught on video, like not the. Video, but like, on audio. And, and Werner heard it. And, and he even told like the, the guy’s like ex-girlfriend [00:43:28] Erin: listen to [00:43:29] Christina: partner. Yes. [00:43:30] Christina: He was like, [00:43:30] Erin: must never [00:43:31] Christina: Yes, yes. So for years this has been kind of like this like thing that people, like gross people, including myself, I’m not gonna lie that that was the first thing I googled when I saw a grizzly man in 2007. I’m not proud of it, but I am who I am. [00:43:48] Erin: does it exist. [00:43:50] Christina: No, no, [00:43:51] Erin: Right. Cuz he, she destroyed it. Right. [00:43:54] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:43:55] Christina: Or yes, she did. Or he did. And, and, uh, but, but people keep claiming and so you’ll find [00:44:00] like fake, like, you know, videos of, of people claiming to have the Timothy tread [00:44:05] Erin: it’s a rig roll. Ugh. [00:44:06] Christina: basically. Or, or something else. Yeah. [00:44:11] Erin: Yeah. [00:44:11] Christina: That documentary is really good. I kept, I actually, I was thinking of that documentary a lot this whole week. [00:44:15] Christina: I was like, Ooh. Cause I was like, And I know this is dark too, but I was like, okay, somebody’s gonna need to do like the, the mini series or the documentary or the whatever about this whole disaster and this whole thing. You know, like someone needs to do the, into thin air, um, of this. And, um, and I was trying to think, I was like, okay, who do we want directing this? [00:44:36] Christina: And, and we were like, do we want it to be like Michael Bay? You know, Paul Greengrass? Like I, I, I think Peter Berg did a really good job with, um, he’s, uh, with, with one of the, the disaster things. Um, James Cameron has too many avatars to make and, and frankly, better things to do, but I was like, Ooh, I kind of wanna a Werner Herzog like documentary, uh, about [00:45:00] like this whole thing. [00:45:02] Erin: And so we were just talking before the show. I, I just watched that, um, that film reality about reality winner and the whistleblower kind of [00:45:13] Christina: Mm-hmm. [00:45:14] Erin: 2017 thing. Um, so, so one thing that did. I was like, okay, so that’s like six years removed. We have some perspective on it. I don’t know where I was going with that, but where I’m going with this is that there will be, in six years when this mini series comes out, the perspective will have was that maybe billionaires are bad. [00:45:39] Erin: But I mean, that’s the perspective we have now. And it will be a class take in the same way that White Lotus is a class a commentary. In the same way that Triangle of Sadness is a, is a class commentary. There are so many like properties with like, you know, fuck, fuck billionaires and yes. Who can’t get behind that. [00:45:58] Erin: Um, [00:45:59] Christina: No, I, I [00:46:00] agree. Well, yeah. Well, I was gonna say that that was So, go on. Go on. [00:46:05] Erin: it’s just this story. I was fo I had the New York Times like live updates tab open all day. And I found, I found myself maybe like you, Christina, like really attracted, like fatally attracted, um, to the developments here because there are so many, um, there’s so many things tied up here. [00:46:26] Erin: There is class, there is, um, the, the guy who thinks he can be better than the certification of an entire industry. There’s hu Yeah, that’s exactly right. Um, there’s the innocent son, there’s the experienced French guy. Like there’s so much to work with. [00:46:47] Christina: there’s also the entire, like James Cameron kept pointing out when he finally started doing his media interviews, like the parallels between this and the Titanic, and then there’s the appeal of the lore of the Titanic, which obviously is why people pay the money to do these things to [00:47:00] begin with, which continues to endure a hundred and, you know, 10 years after it’s sinking and, and be one of those things that is just, I was fascinated by Titanic from the time I learned about it and, and, um, you know, as a little, little kid and, and that continues. You should read the book if you haven’t read it. Um, I, I’ve, it’s called Into Thin Air. It’s, uh, 1996 about the 1996 Everest disaster. It s preceded every single thing that we’ve seen both here and in kind of, um, extreme mountaineering where it didn’t get any better after his book. Um, and, and in a lot of these other things, because what happened, um, in 96 was this was at the kind of the beginning of the, the so-called kind of, um, like, um, uh, adventure tourism, um, market where rich people would basically pay Sherpa and, and other people to walk them up these, these great peaks and it would pay a lot of money to do it. [00:47:54] Christina: And, um, John Krakauer, who, um, is a journalist and an author, but also a very accomplished, [00:48:00] um, uh, climber himself was offered a spot on one of the, the two big commercial expedition teams. Um, To, to kind of do a profile of things for, for outside magazine and his whole thing. He was like, I’m not just gonna write about this and, and, and do it on base camp. [00:48:16] Christina: If I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna actually climb the mountain. And, and his, his book, which he wrote literally when he came back, and he, he didn’t, he made it up the mountain. He made it back down. He lived, but both of those, um, team leaders from, from those big exhibition teams died along with a, a number of, um, the, the participants and, and some other people were like basically left for dead. [00:48:39] Christina: And, and it, because there, uh, um, like a, basically a hurricane happened on top of Mount Everest and it was a massive avalanche. And it, there, there’s an IMAX film about it. It was, it was a, it was a. Big fucking deal. They tried to rescue the people. It was, it was an awful situation. And because he’s an incredible writer, like he wrote this very, very raw book. [00:48:58] Christina: Um, at first it [00:49:00] started out as an outside magazine piece, and I think they gave him the entire issue. And then he expanded that into a book. And it’s, it’s incredibly raw and, and incredibly, I think, um, uh, it’s very, very pointedly judgmental of the, um, entire like for-profit industry and the fact that people who don’t have the skills or the technique or like the ability are being carried at these mountains. [00:49:25] Christina: And, and he wrote that in 1996, came out at the end of 96, 27 years later, the whole Everest thing has only gotten bigger and worse. And, and, and the commercialization of that mountain has only [00:49:38] Erin: The John Oliver piece on that is so good. [00:49:41] Christina: Yeah, it is. And, and, and so, and then you see it in other areas. And like what’s interesting about the Titanic thing was that all of the science. [00:49:50] Christina: Scientific reasons to go down there have been exhausted. Like they, they took a 3D model, I think last, last year that they went down there. So they literally have like a perfect [00:50:00] like, um, you know, visualization of what everything is in the rec site. And so this was the only tourism outlet left. And then this was a pretty shoddy one. [00:50:09] Christina: They were charging a lot of money, but they weren’t profitable and, and they didn’t follow a lot of the other procedures, the lot of the other submersibles follow for, for tourism things. And then as, as James Cameron and other people were pointing out, like the location of where the wreck is is a really, really difficult location. [00:50:26] Christina: There’s a lot of debris. The weather’s really bad. Like it’s not where you wanna go on these things. And so there are like all these warning signs. But what I fear is that in six years when this mini series and these books and things come out is that you will have another or rich guy who will be convinced that he can go down and see two wrecks, [00:50:49] Erin: And it will be a guy, [00:50:50] Christina: Of course, of course. And, and, and that you will have like another wave of this, like unfortunately, I wish that this would lead to maybe less of these [00:51:00] things, but I think just like into thin air, uh, ironically maybe like led to a much greater like, cultural understanding of the fact that, oh, you mean I can just pay someone to walk me up these, these tall mountains, that more people are going to be aware that Oh yeah, you mean I can just pay someone to, to take me into the depths of the ocean? [00:51:19] Erin: Rich guys want to penetrate, rich guys want to penetrate outer space with their Bezos uh, dick rocket. [00:51:29] Brett: very foic rockets. [00:51:31] Christina: Yep. [00:51:32] Erin: and rich men want to penetrate the sea. Here’s a hash thought, shower thought. Okay. This is a sort of, sort of modern Icarus myth where instead of getting too close to the sun, your wings melting. [00:51:46] Erin: Ah, help me to the ground. We are getting a little too close the other direction and our things are imploding. I don’t know. I’m still working on it, but [00:51:59] Christina: No, I, I [00:52:00] I got where you’re going. No, but I think you, you bring up a great point, the parallels with, with space tourism. What’s interesting there, I think that, that the space tourism is weirdly, I think, a little safer just because the cost of entry is so much higher. Because we did so many, we invested so many billions, or probably close to trillions of dollars in the space race in 40 years, that the only people who can get into that space, like there’s a much higher barrier to entry. [00:52:25] Christina: Like the, the Stockton Rush, the third guy, like he, he was not a, he was rich, but he wasn’t like Bezos. Rich, right? And it was clear because this thing was controlled by like a Logitech game pad and, and was built in a shitty way, right? Like an actual money person who builts a submersible what James Cameron built for his, you know, he, he did not do that. [00:52:46] Christina: And so you had these rich people who just, I think to your point, like they think that they like it all and, and can just kind of in run the whole thing and it’s gonna be fine and don’t, aren’t doing due diligence makes it really [00:53:00] unsafe. Whereas bizarrely, as, as bad as I think, and I think we will have disasters in, in space tourism as we have with all space exploration. [00:53:09] Christina: I, I almost think that like the, the barrier to entry to like even get into that space is so high that like the, the good thing for now at least is that you don’t have as many like hucksters because you, you’d have to have so much money to even get something in the, in the air. You know what I mean? [00:53:29] Erin: Yeah. And the last thing I’ll say about this is the last, I don’t know, the 2010s had a lot of prestige television like this where you’re rooting for a complicated protagonist who is actually in this universe and very clear antagonist. Um, With these kinds of episodes, like, uh, what was the, the, like submarine getting lost in, in Thailand or whatever that was? [00:53:55] Erin: Um, no, that, that’s not actually what I’m talking about. I, this, this [00:54:00] kind of like, there’s something, they’re on the precipice of life and death and you can root for either one kind of fairly, is the same kind of anti I’m rooting for an anti-hero. Uh, what does that say about me? And rooting for the, just desserts of someone who has this much hubris is an, a similarly complicated emotional situation where it’s like, this is such an ugly feeling. [00:54:32] Erin: I like, fuck your video game controller. Who do you think you are? You get this, you deserve this. But it’s like, oh my God, it’s a human life. You monster. [00:54:43] Christina: bunch of human [00:54:44] Erin: So it’s like, I. [00:54:45] Christina: just because they’re rich assholes doesn’t mean they deserve to die. You know, like the, the ones I felt bad for was like the French like explorer and tour guide who probably should have known better, but, you know, wasn’t paid a lot. Um, and, and then, um, like, like the [00:54:58] Erin: by Bill Murray [00:54:59] Brett: Yeah. [00:54:59] Christina: [00:55:00] you know, like, yeah, totally. [00:55:01] Christina: Yeah, you’re right. Totally play, totally be played with Bill Murray and like the 19 year old who’s just going on a thing with his dad and is not thinking anything else. Right? Like, I don’t care about the billionaire, I don’t care about the, the Pakistani, um, businessman. I don’t care about the you, uh, founder, but like the. [00:55:20] Christina: The, the French Explorer and guide and who again, like, you know, was not paid well and, um, the, the, the teenager, I mean, I feel bad for everybody dying. Like we’d all, we’d all had hope, like [00:55:33] Brett: Right. So like, yeah, I’m, I’m more ambivalent towards the billionaire, the millionaires. Um, but like, it’s all human life. And if you were like, they knew the risks and they still brought the kid, they still endangered the life of the tour guide, uh, or whatever you want to the, [00:56:00] the diver. Um, and, and it sucks. [00:56:04] Brett: Like as much as I wanna be like, okay, so billionaires made of a mistake, whatever, it, it is what it is. It is there, there’s human life cost. And that that does, that does weigh on me. [00:56:18] Erin: You know what the worst par part of this is? Is they littered. That’s at the bottom of the, that’s on the earth. That’s metal that’s not supposed to be there. Sorry, [00:56:32] Brett: say the, I would say the same about most of our space exploration. [00:56:36] Christina: Oh [00:56:36] Erin: Oh God. Yet, [00:56:38] grAPPtitude [00:56:38] Brett: Our sky is littered. Um, we should, so Erin, I didn’t give you a heads up about gratitude. Have you listened to enough episodes to know what gratitude is? [00:56:50] Erin: I failed to do that. I’m [00:56:52] Christina: that’s [00:56:52] Brett: So, so you can sit this out. What we do is we pick an app [00:57:00] or a service, or it’s pretty flexible, um, that we’re really into right now. [00:57:08] Brett: Um, usually an indie thing [00:57:12] Christina: Doesn’t have to be, [00:57:12] Brett: uh, it doesn’t have to be, I think fucking last week Jeff picked Google Docs, so, [00:57:20] Erin: I have one. I have one. [00:57:21] Brett: it’s pretty wide open. All right, awesome. Um, Christina, are you prepared for [00:57:27] Christina: I am not, so if you guys wanna go first, I will. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m trying to figure out what I wanna [00:57:34] Brett: All right, well, I will kick it off. I’m picking Launch Bar this week. I can’t remember if I’ve talked about Launch Bar before. Um, it’s [00:57:42] Christina: it again, cuz it’s great. [00:57:43] Brett: it’s a controversial pick because there are so many great launchers, but when I think about what do I use most every day, it’s like text expander and launch bar, and it’s how I get to [00:58:00] everything. [00:58:00] Brett: Um, so it’s a pretty simple pick. And if we’ve covered it before and I’m just forgetting, then we don’t have to go into depth on it. Uh, [00:58:10] Christina: I mean, I think we have, but, but I, but we have, I think, but, but I, it’s worth talking about again because as you mentioned, there are like a ton of them there. There’s Ray Cast, there’s Alfred, obviously Spotlight, there’s some other things. And it’s been interesting. There’s been sort of a resurgence in the last couple of years. [00:58:27] Brett: and Spotlight has picked up, spotlight has picked up so much functionality from its early days. From its from, its um, what was the, what, what did they Sherlock to make Spotlight. What was that called? No, no. There was something on like OS nine. [00:58:49] Christina: Oh, Sherlock. [00:58:51] Brett: I mean, was it Sher? Oh yeah, that’s right. That’s where the term Sherlock [00:58:55] Christina: That’s literally where the term Sherlock [00:58:57] Brett: they, Sherlock. [00:58:58] Brett: Sherlock. [00:58:58] Christina: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, [00:59:00] yeah, [00:59:01] Brett: Right. Watson, Sherlock. Yeah. Um, yeah. But Spotlight has come a long way, and like it has awesome, like serious suggestions, preview capabilities, all of that. But I still, I still default to Launch Bar and I was a quick, I was a Quicksilver guy, uh, when Launch Bar came out and I made the transition because Quicksilver didn’t seem like it had, um, active development going on at that point. [00:59:34] Brett: And it kinda, it, they, they released a new version. What was it like last year [00:59:42] Christina: Yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah, they finally released a new, a new version of a, of Quicksilver. And then, um, but what I was gonna say about, um, a launch bar is that I’ve actually found, like there’s, um, um, a, a guy, um, who I think were mutuals on, on either Blue [01:00:00] Sky or on, um, Macedon, who has like a, a whole GitHub repo of all of his, um, launch bar actions and, um, So, which, which are really good. [01:00:15] Christina: So he’s got things like, um, doing the Jira search, uh, doing action updates, you know, doing things like from from caffeinate, expanding URLs, sharing files, sharing safari links, switching audio, all kinds of stuff. Um, so I’ll, uh, I’ll, I’ll put his, his links, um, in, in the show notes for people who wanna add things cuz my only critique of Launch Bar has been because I like Launch Bar a lot, but my only critique has been that, um, And then there’s another guy, uh, this is a different one. [01:00:48] Christina: Christian Bender was the one I was thinking of. Uh, so the other guy, uh, has, has contributed to his, um, thing, but, but Christian Bender’s who I was actually thinking of, and uh, he also has a website, um, and, uh, [01:01:00] and he’s got like tons and tons and tons of, of, um, launch bar stuff. But my only critique of Launch Bar over the years, cause I’ve always liked it, has been that the community has not been quite as robust as, as like Alfred or, or now Raycast. [01:01:14] Christina: And, and that’s, that’s, that’s made me sad because I think it’s in many ways a superior designed app. [01:01:20] Brett: Yeah. The Alfred community has been outstanding, like the, the number of plugins and extensions people have developed. Um, like people make launch bar extensions, but they don’t have the general, like, they don’t collect the community the way that Alfred does anyway. [01:01:41] Christina: Yeah. All right. I’ve got one, but, but Aaron, if you have a thing you would like to share, um, uh, guest first, please. [01:01:48] Erin: Sure thing. And this can be really quick because I just found out about this app before leaving for my show the other night. Um, and, and so maybe I have too. So [01:02:00] I have keyboard maestro, 15 years late, finally jumping on keyboard maestro. Um, love it so much already. Uh, but the app that came to mind was, again, I have not played with it really, but I’m glad it exists. [01:02:16] Erin: Service station. [01:02:18] Brett: What? [01:02:19] Erin: about this? Yeah. So the, the idea is that, um, you, with Service Station, you get to customize your right click menu based on the type of file you’re clicking. Kind of like a pc. Like a pc when Windows, it’s a little smarter about what kind of files you, you’re working with. So I work, for example, with Logic a lot, and so I can now right click a file and be like, yes, open with Logic, put that at the top of the list. [01:02:50] Erin: Um, and you could do a lot with it. That’s, that’s kind of my draw to it. Again, I haven’t played with it, but I’m really happy it exists. It looks to be [01:03:00] pretty legit. Um, so yeah. Service [01:03:03] Brett: I just, it’s on the Mac app store. I just found this. That is, that is nice. Yes. My, my right click menu is a mess. I might check this out. [01:03:14] Christina: I was gonna say, my right click menu is definitely a mess, so I like this a lot. Um, very cool. Okay. My pick is IA presenter, um, which is very similar to another. So it’s basically a markdown kind of based, um, presentation app from the people who made IA writer. And, um, so if you go to ia.net, it’s, it’s a, it’s a paid app. [01:03:37] Christina: It’s a kind of a subscription right now, actually. You can do it two ways. You can buy it like a one-time thing just for Mac, um, or you can get a subscription, which is a little bit cheaper over time, and they’re, they’re promising and iOS app and, um, but, but it’s Mac only right now and it’s basically, it’s very similar to, um, what was the, um, uh, what was it called, uh, deskmate. [01:03:58] Christina: What was the, the [01:04:00] Markdown, um, presentation app that we used to use Brett. [01:04:03] Brett: oh. Oh. Um, something deck. Um, [01:04:07] Christina: Um, um, DEC Mate, DECA Dset. Dset, [01:04:11] Brett: deck set. That’s it. [01:04:13] Christina: okay. It’s similar to Dset, but I do think that it [01:04:15] Brett: And what’s it called again? [01:04:16] Christina: called IA Presenter, and it’s from the same people who do IA writer. So, um, it is, uh, it’s at ia.net. Um, it’s, it they’ve got like a monthly or, or, or a yearly kind of, uh, subscription. You can also do a one-time purchase. [01:04:33] Christina: Um, but, but like I said, the subscription, um, is going to also include a a, an iOS app, which they promise is, is coming. Um, you can try it out first. I, um, I think I, I’m doing the subscription right now, I believe, but it’s, um, it’s really, really good. It’s basically like a way to. You know, do presentations, um, really beautiful, like looking, you know, kind of text inter um, presentations using [01:05:00] markdown and, um, other tools. [01:05:02] Christina: They’ve got a theming engine and, um, it’s, uh, it’s really, really nice. So that, that’s, that, that’s what I’ve been, uh, doing. I, I’m looking forward to giving a talk using this. I usually have to, um, well it actually varies. Sometimes I have to like, give a, give presentations using a certain theme. But now that, um, the fonts that we use at GitHub are actually open source, like we open sourced our, our branding fonts, um, it makes it easier for me in terms of like packaging stuff that I would wanna do. [01:05:34] Christina: Cuz I could just put the cut the, the, the font file there and I wouldn’t have to like remember like the what Dropbox or, or Google Drive thing it’s on. Like if, if I don’t have it downloaded on a machine, I can just, you know, go to a website and download it. So I think this’ll make it, um, easier for me to recreate some of the, um, I guess, I guess stylistic things that I need to do at, at work using this style so I can, you know, kind of have like a, a set, uh, way of doing [01:06:00] things, um, that still are like brand appropriate, but are easier for my own, um, working, uh, process. [01:06:07] Christina: Uh, but I really like their, their speakers view, which is like more like a teleprompter, and that has like, gives you, you know, like clear like dialogue, um, cues and, and and whatnot, which I really like. So, um, I, yeah, I’ve been playing with this, uh, for a couple weeks now and, um, it’s, it’s fairly new and I, I like it a lot. [01:06:32] Christina: So, uh, I, [01:06:33] Brett: really good. [01:06:34] Christina: so IA presenter, they’ve got a free trial. Um, IA writer was as an athlete. I’ve, I’ve, I haven’t used it in a long time, but I, I have bought it, um, over the years and I’ve really, really liked it. And, and so, um, I very much appreciate their attention to, to detail for design stuff. So Dset is still great. [01:06:52] Christina: Um, it hasn’t been updated in a long time. Um, [01:06:56] Brett: I mean, they put out, [01:07:00] um, bug fixes, but yeah, it’s not, it’s not advancing in any significant [01:07:06] Christina: right. So, so for me, like if I were to invest like net new in one, like I’d probably start here, but [01:07:12] Brett: Yeah, this looks really good. And you can use, I, i writer has this, uh, block, you can include things like images and CSV files or whatever, just by starting a line with a slash and then following it with a path to the asset. Um, [01:07:32] Christina: the exact same way. [01:07:33] Brett: Yep. Yep. And that’s cool that I actually incorporated that into marked, um, like you can include other markdown files or images and if you include like a C S V, it injects it as a markdown table. [01:07:48] Brett: And if you include source code, it injects it as highlighted, uh, like syntax. I code, like I got that from IA writer. They’ve had some, some good innovations. I appreciate that.[01:08:00] [01:08:01] Christina: Yeah, [01:08:03] Brett: All right, well we’re at like a, an hour 10. I think that’s an episode. [01:08:09] Christina: a great episode. [01:08:12] Brett: Good job people. [01:08:13] Christina: Good job. Everybody can get some sleep. Uh, Aaron can, um, continue to soothe her hangover. Brett can hopefully get some sleep because he, he was, he was, uh, up all night and, um, I can hopefully, uh, maybe be productive today, which would be great. [01:08:29] Brett: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Aaron. [01:08:32] Christina: Thank you, [01:08:33] Erin: Happy pride. Thanks for [01:08:34] Christina: pride everyone. [01:08:36] Brett: Happy pride. Get some sleep. [01:08:40] Erin: I.

The gang’s all here to mourn the death of long-time friend of the show, Yeti. Plus, plumbing adventures, musical diversions, VisionPro, Mac Gaming, and some great GrAPPtitude picks. Promo Swap Kewl.fm is a music station that blends your favorite genres in one place. Their lively DJs are true entertainers, who are there to share stories, add personality and ensure your listening experience is nothing short of spectacular. Check them out at kewl.fm. Show Links Yeti Tribute Butthole Surfers at Lollapalooza 1991 David Usher David Usher.- Fast Car Tracy Chapman at Wembley I Used Apple’s Vision Pro and It’s Absolutely Mind-Blowingly Impressive – Raymond Wong Apple’s Secret Weapon to Getting PC Games on Mac github.com/apple/homebrew-apple AI QR Codes Paprika TypingMind and on SetApp and free/official ChatGPT iOS app by OpenAI Google Docs Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.

Christina is off to see Taylor Swift, so Brett and Jeff hold down the fort. Hiking for mental health, Markdown, file management and your weekly Grapptitude. Sponsor Factor gives you fresh, never frozen meals, ready to eat in two minutes. Save 50% on your first box with code overtired50 at factormeals.com/overtired50. Show Links Sugarloaf Oracle DevRel Markdown style guide Bookmark CLI Grapptitude Kaleidoscope Bunch Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript I Am Not a Linter!! [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Jeff: Hello everybody, this is Overtired. I am your host, Jeff Severns gunzel. I’m one of your hosts. Uh, our. Second of three hosts, Christina Warren is in New York, seeing Taylor Swift, which is, I don’t know if there’s a, if there’s a more perfect term than on brand, but if there is, then let’s just, uh, let’s just imagine that I’m saying that word. [00:00:26] Um, and then it, it’s Brett Terpstra, the two of us. Wait, so I, [00:00:29] Brett: I’m the third of three hosts, even though Christina is gone, I’m still in third place. I [00:00:33] Jeff: just, I, you know, I got excited about saying the Taylor Swift thing just to, you know, it’s, it’s not nothing to do with, uh, preference or actual rank or [00:00:43] Brett: hierarchy. [00:00:44] Since you came aboard, there has been significantly less Taylor Swift talk overall, um, which I personally don’t mind. Like it still comes up. Yeah. But, uh, but there have been episodes of this [00:01:00] podcast that have been all about Taylor Swift. Right, right. Longtime listeners will know that there’s a reason that our tagline was Taylor Swift podcast. [00:01:10] Jeff: Yeah. Completely. Yeah, it’d be good. Uh, it’d be a good bit if we just dedicated one of these where it’s you and me to Taylor Swift and we didn’t say anything. We’d have to really work. I think we’d have to do some prep work, but I think we could pull it off [00:01:23] Brett: to, to not say anything about Taylor Swift. No. [00:01:25] Jeff: To only talk about Taylor. [00:01:26] Taylor Swift. Oh. Only talk about Taylor Swift. Only talk about Taylor Swift. Why can’t I say her name? Taylor. [00:01:33] Brett: Shania. Shania. [00:01:35] Jeff: Yes. I was Shania eating it all together. I know they’re very different. So here we are. Here [00:01:40] Brett: we are. Brett. [00:01:41] Mental Health Corner [00:01:41] Brett: Um, how’s your mental health, Jeff? [00:01:44] Jeff: You know, I can talk about something that was just lovely for my overall professional mental health this last week. Um, we’re starting a new project. Uh, it’s a research and evaluation co-op that I’m part of. Um, we’re [00:02:00] starting a new project with a new client and, um, it’s basically many months of designing an evaluation and then hoping maybe we get the contract to do the evaluation. So we’ll see. Okay. Um, it’s, it’s an unusual contract for us anyway. It’s one that is with a, a client that is, um, sort of in the league that we have not previously, um, engaged with. [00:02:22] Uh, and so, um, they do everything in a much more sort of orderly, professional way than most of our clients. Like, we have to use Microsoft Teams, which otherwise I’ve never had to use. Sure. Um, and there are all these other things, like when you submit a budget, there’s a template for it, which is not something we usually have to deal with. [00:02:39] There’s just, there are protocols because this is such a large organization that, um, are unlike anything we’ve dealt with in the past and we’re super adaptable. But like, it’s, it’s very new. So, so we decided we were gonna hire a. A project manager. Um, because in the past how we’ve worked, were like little rogue evaluation groups, you know, two to five of us, [00:03:00] and we just kind of like make do with our combined skills. [00:03:04] But we realized that, um, this might be one where our combined skills and our combined personalities don’t necessarily, um, like meet the bar. And so we’re like, and I’ve always wanted to work with a project manager. I think that’s just like a fantastic idea if it’s the right person. Right. Project managers are like copy factorors sometimes. [00:03:23] They’re so obsessed with their own sort of toolbox that there’s absolute rigidity and no fluidity or flexibility. Like with copy factorors, I’ve, I’ve had experiences. Most of my experiences have been fantastic cause I love to be factored. In any way possible. I just love people saying, no, do it this way, and then giving it a shot. [00:03:43] Right. But if it can’t be like a conversation Yeah. Then it’s really tough. But anyway, um, you know, I’ve had copy factorors who for instance, forget that there is a such thing as voice, right? Yeah. And so, yeah, we can do it all by the book, but then we lose the voice, whether it’s mine or whoever we’re factoring. [00:03:59] [00:04:00] And with project managers, I’ve had the experience where it’s like, okay, guy come in with this tool and you all have to learn this tool. And like, that’s the death of almost all project managers, right? Is when you try to force a tool. I would love to force a whole suite of tools with the teams I work with. [00:04:14] Brett: The, the death is when you force a tool and then change your mind. Yeah, that’s true too. And you’re like, actually now we’re gonna use Asana for everything. [00:04:22] Jeff: Exactly. Asana. Yeah. I’ve been, I’ve been down that road. Not, not, uh, voluntarily, but, um, so anyway, it, we put out, we had to hire this person in like a week, so we had to like, You know, get all the applications, do the interviews. [00:04:35] We did 11 interviews Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And um, what was so awesome about it was I have been working with a very, like limited group of people on a project for like six years. And so it’s always been the same faces, the same work styles. It’s been fantastic, but it’s been a long time and I’ve been excited at the prospect of working with [00:05:00] other people in our co-op and just having a different experience overall. [00:05:04] So we put this out there and because we’re like a social justice base, like systems change, uh, organization, a lot of people that come to us or that we reach out to, to work with us. Get excited because the thing they’re doing doesn’t always mean that they get attached to like social justice type work or change making work. [00:05:25] And um, and so that makes for a really cool relationship cuz it’s people, you’ve, this happened with you right? I remember you saying this, like, you were like, Hey, I’m happy to apply my skills to something about like juvenile justice and like helping kids or whatever. Like, um, so, so we got people like that and, and we just, what was amazing is like almost everybody, even the people that were totally wrong for the job, they were all like, inspiring to me. [00:05:48] They all said something that I was like, oh my God, I’ve never thought about that that way. Um, and, and so it was just, it was lovely to see that there are people out in the world that think differently. There are that think like me, [00:06:00] um, who I, I wouldn’t have otherwise been able to. Connect with. And it made me really hopeful. [00:06:05] Like there were people that aren’t gonna get this job, that were already going to be reaching out to about other work, you know? Um, and so it just felt good. It just felt good to expand and remember, like it’s not just me in my tiny office. Um, and, and I’ve been like that since way before the pandemic. Um, It was cool. [00:06:22] I don’t wanna work in offices with any of these people, but I’m like really excited, um, to, to be kind of learning about, like a way of thinking about work. Um, and I think it’ll solve, they’re just natural conflicts that that come up when you don’t have a project manager. Like somebody will naturally sort of acquire or almost take a little more power than others. [00:06:44] Um, some people who maybe think or talk differently or react differently, um, maybe they take more time to sort of gather their thoughts, end up being, um, you know, sorted below the people that are really quick. Um, and so for me, having a project [00:07:00] manager. Is exciting because I think it can really, like, it can, it can help us to kind of live out our, like our equity goals, which we do a pretty good job of in our organization overall. [00:07:10] Um, we are just kind of a, we’re a diverse organization, not in a forced way at all. Um, but because we’ve just managed to kind of find our people. Um, and so anyway, that just felt good. It felt good. I got excited about work and I’ve been pretty, I’ve been pretty kind of like rote about work for a while. Um, so that just, that feels good. [00:07:31] Um, it was still hard to do all those interviews and get all my other deadlines met, so it caused a little stress too. But that was nice and I’m really excited to working with. I’m really excited to be working with new people. Um, so new spirits [00:07:44] Brett: nice. Now I’m worried that I might be one of those overly rigid copy factorors. [00:07:50] Jeff: Oh, you think so? No, no, no. Copy factoring requires rigidity. I, you, it, you have to be a bit of a fascist. Like there’s no way around that. Like, I want to be [00:08:00] clear, like it’s a little tiny trip wire that you can hit, you know, and you have such a natural sense of voice anyhow. Yeah. That, um, and it’s, but why do you, why do you think that? [00:08:11] Why do you think maybe you, well, [00:08:13] Brett: so in my current job, uh, for a while there I was basically copy factoring and, um, we were using markdown. Via a GitHub workflow for the factoring. And I was very strict about like my, my like markdown syntax and, and using GitHub properly. And like, I’m good with like, I understand voice, like it’s, it’s if something was written, even if it’s not a voice that I think is like perfect. [00:08:52] I, I understand like this author has a voice and, and I can work with it. So I’m mostly, mostly focused on [00:09:00] grammatical and spelling stuff when it came to the actual copy. Yeah. But as far as the tools wedge, I was, I was a bit, a bit strict. [00:09:08] Jeff: But don’t you think that you’re in a context, you’re in a sort of programmer, you know, power user context, aren’t you? [00:09:15] So it feels like you can, you should be able to get away with being strict about that. [00:09:19] Brett: I would think so. Because I, I’ll tell you what I got. I got very frustrated. [00:09:24] Jeff: Did you? I did. What was the thing that was most frustrating? [00:09:28] Brett: Um, just when basic markdown syntax couldn’t be adhered to. Um, I mean like very synt things that, that didn’t work. [00:09:39] Like they were just wrong. And, and I repeatedly would fix them and, and add comments saying, please take care of this in the future. And like I have some niggles like, um, like white space in markdown documents. Like always putting a line break [00:10:00] before a list element? Yes. Or a line break after a headline and things that just make readability of the markdown itself easier. [00:10:07] Even though super important, you can get away with it in a lot of cases. You can get away with not doing it. Like I set up a style guide and I was like, here are the rules. And repeatedly the rules weren’t followed. And then I wrote some custom plugins and created my own syntax for a few things. And, and people never, um, assimilated the information to make them work properly. [00:10:35] So I spent a lot of time correcting liquid, liquid syntax, and it, it, I’m glad I’m past that part of my job. Do [00:10:45] Jeff: you ever just, did you ever scream in a meeting? I am not. No. No. Listen. Not. Did you ever scream in a meeting? Did you ever scream in a meeting? I am not a linter. Uh, I [00:10:54] Brett: did not. Episode title. I did not. I, I would complain to Elle on our nightly [00:11:00] walks. I would tell her how annoyed I was with, you know, an individual or my team in general. [00:11:07] Um, but I always maintained a very diplomatic, uh, persona. In those, yeah. In those proceedings. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I’m, I’m, I’m, I think I would, like, I applied for a managerial position a little while ago, and I don’t have a lot on my resume, um, that is actual management positions. Yeah. But I have fallen into that role enough times that I feel like I could do the job. [00:11:41] Yeah. Uh, whether or not I actually want to is another question, but I feel like I make a good, I’m, I’m good at dealing with people, uh, and ordering people around without ordering people around. You know what I mean? Right. Right. [00:11:57] Jeff: Yeah. Man, I, I, [00:12:00] um, I don’t do a lot of factoring now, but I, I generally am. I generally consider myself a good factoror, not copy factoror. [00:12:07] Um, I really love working with people’s, uh, text. Sure. I love trying to sort of, I love making changes that they like. Sure. I don’t mind it if they don’t like it, but I, I would like to, what I, what I want to be when I’m factoring is someone who like, um, is sensitive enough to the voice that I can take it on for a minute. [00:12:29] Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, not steal it, just take it on for a minute. I remember we used to, in the punk planet magazine days, um, our approach to interviews was we would take the full transcript, And, and I know there are people who are listening who are gonna like slam their fists on the table and you probably work in a newsroom and that’s why I don’t work in newsrooms anymore. [00:12:53] Um, but we would take the entire, um, q and a and we would rewrite our questions if we needed to, cuz [00:13:00] the, the, the absolute priority was readability and what we would hear over and over. I remember this happened with a Micons interview that Dan, our, um, the, the founder of Punk Planet had done. [00:13:11] John Langford was like, I’ve never sounded that articulate or like I, and I actually learned something. I, I interviewed Ian Mackay of Fugazi Sure. Who always seems to give a great interview, right? Like he’s, I don’t know if you used to read interviews with him, but like, if you’re in punk rock, like if you have a punk rock history, you’ve read some Ian Mackay interviews. [00:13:30] Yeah. And you’ve appreciated the kind of nuggets. Well, I, I’m sorry, Ian, I’m sorry. I love you so much, but you were a fucking mess. And there was a point at which he was telling me about a a a a. Game they play on tour where like you look at like, uh, uh, Ford Explorer or something like that, and you just add, um, anal before it’s like anal explorer. [00:13:53] And he went on about this for quite a while. This was an interview about, about digital music streaming and whether or [00:14:00] not discord would ever play ball with iTunes. That’s how long ago it was. Right. And I remember just being like, this is not how I imagined this would go. And so when I factored it, sure enough, like the quotes I pulled out were amazing. [00:14:12] Like, and they were un, they were unfactored. Like when he gets to his point, it’s fantastic. I don’t mean to pick on Ian Mackay. I just feel like for all the years he spent yelling at people from the stage, I can, I can like speak to him directly from, from my stage. Yeah. And I love you and you changed my life and all of that stuff. [00:14:29] But anyway, like that’s how we used to do interviews and like, I, I brought that to factoring in other contexts where it’s like where you actually are a little more allowed to do that, right? Like if it’s someone’s writing, you can kind of move things around. I loved that. I loved it. Yeah. But, um, yeah, [00:14:44] Brett: I, that’s all so, like Systematic, most of the interviews I’ve done in my life were for my old podcast Systematic, and there were plenty of interviews over a few hundred episodes that definitely I [00:15:00] would’ve liked to have. [00:15:02] The, the kind of liberties you can take in text. Yeah, you don’t necessarily have, uh, well, you can if you have the time in audio, but it pretty much, like, I could cut things out, but to like rearrange and like fill in quotes, you know how like in copy factoring you can write what someone said in quotes and then add, you know, in brackets or in between, you can kind of fill in and you can add sick. [00:15:33] Um, right. [00:15:34] Jeff: Yeah, thanks. That’s usually when I’m feeling like an asshole [00:15:40] Brett: or, or a note, an factoror’s note. And, uh, you don’t get that, you don’t have a lot of those liberties in, uh, an audio interview, which, uh, there were definitely cases where I would’ve appreciated that. But [00:15:55] Jeff: anyway, yeah. I love, I actually love, um, factoring audio. [00:15:58] It is so incredibly time [00:16:00] consuming. It’s so fascinating to essentially factor text that you can’t see. Yeah, and it’s also amazing. Um, when I was working in radio, this, this happened a lot when I was producing like three minute stories. It’s like you start to be able to kind of read the wave form, right? [00:16:12] Yeah. Like, it’s not like you, you know the words, but you can kind of, well, you could, some words you can start to recognize like, like, and, um, you know, everyone has their, their tick. But yeah, I find that kind of fascinating. Anyway, how about you? How about you? Let’s, uh, [00:16:24] Brett: that’s all. Um, yeah. Uh, things are going really well on, uh, on my current med regime. [00:16:33] Um, I. Had, we’ve talked about, I believe, uh, some of the problems I had with getting my Vivance and yeah. Um, I had gotten through most of the hoops through which I had to jump, uh, now that my psychiatrist has moved to a private practice, um, but they had a urine drug panel [00:17:00] requirement and, um, I didn’t know exactly what they were testing for, but I’m, I’m 90% drug free, um, except for some that I actually use for mental health. [00:17:12] Right, right. Um, which I’m not at liberty to talk about, but, um, apparently I’ll just say psilocybin doesn’t show up on a 10, 10 panel urine test. Interesting. Uh, so that wasn’t a concern for me and everything else was, Gonna be fine, but it took them like two weeks to get the results to my doctor. Um, so I had this, she went ahead and gave me like two weeks at a time until we had this figured out. [00:17:44] Uh, but now everything is clear. I am, I’m good to go. Uh, future vivance refills should not be nearly as much hassle as I went through to get set up with this new one. Um, so that’s good. [00:18:00] One thing that I have found has been really good for me lately is hiking. Um, we have, so we have this, uh, landmark in our town called Sugarloaf. [00:18:12] It’s a, a sandstone. Butte on top [00:18:16] Jeff: of, is there, are there any bluegrass songs on [00:18:20] Brett: Mountain? Oh, I’m sure. We host the Bluegrass Festival. I’m sure it’s been done. Um, but, uh, um, we, there’s a newish trail that goes up to Sugar Oak and it takes about 30 minutes, um, mostly uphill to hike up the bluff up to Sugarloaf. [00:18:41] Um, and then, uh, yeah, you can like touch the rock and then head back down. So it’s, it’s about an hour round trip and I’ve been trying to do that once a week and it has been, Really good for me. I’m building up cardio, uh, [00:19:00] endurance and it’s helping my mental health and we’re still going for walks in the refuge. [00:19:05] So last week we did Sugarloaf on Sunday and then did the Wisconsin wetlands on Monday, and we saw, uh, a hundred Goslings. It was like, They were probably two weeks old, most of them. Um, so like the trails were just covered with like lines. Like you’d have like the mom in the front and the dad in the back and like six to eight goslings between them. [00:19:34] That’s amazing. And they would like cross the trail and hop in the water and like slowly escape from the invading humans. Um, and we saw swans and it was the, uh, first dragonfly hatch. Oh, nice. So were, yeah, like as you walk down the trail, like just dragonflies popping out of the trail TV outta your way. [00:19:53] And, um, I’m looking forward to the damsel fly hatch. I hope we catch that cause. Ooh, [00:20:00] like the sides of the trails turned blue with all of these dams supplies. Oh my God. Wow. And it’s, yeah, it’s really fun. I have a great time. Uh, so that was a very rewarding, uh, morning in the wetlands and it stuck with me all week and. [00:20:17] It is an experience like that, just getting out and seeing nature. Like even aside from the mental health benefits of exercise, which are, you know, strong and well proven. Uh, but just seeing like natural phenomenon really sticks with me and gives me like a lot of, um, pleasure through, through the whole week afterward. [00:20:43] Uh, so that’s been really good for me. [00:20:45] Jeff: That’s great. And I would say that 95% of our listeners probably have no idea how stunningly beautiful the part of Minnesota you are in is. Yeah, [00:20:56] Brett: it’s stunning. It’s, if you think of Minnesota and you think, [00:21:00] uh, Iowa landscape, you haven’t been to southeast Minnesota, which is just all bluffs and valleys and, and green and so, and rivers and lakes and it’s fantastic. [00:21:15] Yeah. [00:21:15] Jeff: It’s truly incredible. Um, I really should just come down to visit you. Yeah. I, I don’t know why I haven’t done that yet. [00:21:22] Brett: You should. There we, I just found out about a new nine mile trail, uh, that I’m looking forward to checking out, but Nice. So many good. We like the whole singer Trail system is nine miles of bluff trails a lot. [00:21:39] Uh, open to mountain biking, uh, but all open to hiking and it’s, it’s fantastic. I’ll show you around. These mountain [00:21:47] Jeff: bikers are just insane. I don’t understand how they aren’t all dead. I like, I wanna know the mortality rate of, of mountain bikers that used those crazy trails. [00:21:57] Brett: Back in high school. I raced mountain bikes. [00:21:59] [00:22:00] Did you? And yeah. And, and I would race all through Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Dang. And honestly, it was always great to come home because our trail systems are, we have, uh, Long, long uphill climbs with crazy downhill runs. And then most of the larger loops have something called suicide trails. Sounds good. [00:22:27] That’s great. Which like when you get to the peak, instead of taking the rounding, uh, like kind of path down to the bottom, you can go straight down the hill, like straight down. And it is, it is suicidal. And [00:22:41] Jeff: is there, is there some kind of emergency mental health provider at the top of the hill before you go down? [00:22:47] Negative And just a quick, just a quick evaluation before you get [00:22:51] Brett: down there. And they’re often in deep enough that you would have to get a helicopter if you had a serious injury. You’d have to be like airlifted out. [00:23:00] Yeah, it is. It’s very dangerous. Yeah. Um, but you know, at your own risk, I guess. [00:23:07] Jeff: Yeah. [00:23:08] You’re immortal at that point. Um, definitely not at this point. [00:23:14] Brett: Yeah. No. We got our bikes fixed up. Uh, just spent $150 repairing bikes that had sat in storage for too long. Wow. So just yesterday, Elle and I started g getting out for bike rides and uh, it’s, you can go eight miles is too far for me to walk. [00:23:35] I’m not gonna do an eight mile hike. Yeah. Know Me neither. But an eight mile bike ride, that’s a [00:23:39] Jeff: different story. That’s a nice, that’s a nice ride. Yeah. That’s awesome. Um, I, I think we should do a sponsor, but before we do that, um, I wanted to just let everybody know that we are going to a sort of reduced schedule for the summer. [00:23:56] We’re gonna be going every other week, starting today, starting with this [00:24:00] episode, and then in August we’ll be launching season four Yep. Of the Overtired podcast. Maybe we’ll even have a new tagline. [00:24:08] Brett: Yeah, who knows, maybe who, maybe something not Taylor [00:24:11] Jeff: Swift related or maybe we’ll all have Taylor Swift tattoos and, and it’ll feel like Yeah. [00:24:15] You know, let’s just continue to, to, to merge with her. We’ll, we’ll have some [00:24:18] Brett: meetings. We’ll confer. [00:24:19] Sponsor: Factor [00:24:19] Jeff: Yeah, some meetings and confer. Uh, so what do you think? Good time for a sponsor. Yeah. All [00:24:24] Brett: right. Do, so I actually, last time we did this sponsor, you weren’t here and you were the one person that I thought would most appreciate this sponsor based on your feedback from the free samples they sent. [00:24:39] So do you want to do this read? [00:24:41] Jeff: Yes. I wish I still had the, I had saved the boxes of the ones I love the most, but I think I can speak to the quality of them. Um, alright, so our, our sponsor this week is factor, uh, this spring. You need nutritious, convenient, me, not just this spring. You always need nutritious, convenient meals to energize you for warmer active days and keep you [00:25:00] on track reaching your goals. [00:25:03] I find that trying to reach my goals usually means I’m not eating enough, but that’s not, that’s not the read. Uh, so Factor America’s number one, ready to eat meal kit can help you fuel up fast with ready to eat meals delivered straight to your door. You’ll save time, eat well, and tackle everything on your to-do list. [00:25:21] It’s like the productivity, uh, like spin. Isn’t it too busy to cook this spring with factor? Skip the trip to the grocery store and skip the chopping. Prepping and cleaning up too. Factors fresh. Never frozen. Meals are ready in just two minutes, so all you have to do is heat and enjoy. Then get back outside and soak up the warmer weather they offer delicious flavor packed options on the menu each week to fit a variety of lifestyles from keto, keto or keto, keto, keto, not keto. Like the, the, um, great witness in the, in the [00:25:57] Brett: keto [00:26:00] ketosis, [00:26:00] Jeff: in ketosis. High factor. If you’re, if you’re paying attention to this read, I hope you understand this is value added. [00:26:07] Okay. So skip the chopping, the prepping, the cleaning they’ve got, you know, they can meet you where you’re at, from keto to calorie, smart, vegan, and vegetarian and protein plus, uh, prepared by chefs and approved by dieticians. Each meal has all of the ingredients you need to feel satisfied all day long while meeting your goals with 34 plus chef prepared, dietician approved weekly options. There’s always something new to try. Plus, you can round out your meal and replenish your snack supply with an assortment of 45 plus add-ons, including breakfast items like egg bites, smoothies, and more. So you wanna cut back on takeout Get factor instead. [00:26:49] Not only is factor cheaper than takeout, but meals are ready faster than restaurant delivery. In just two minutes with factor. You can rest assured you’re making a sustainable choice. With [00:27:00] Factor, you can rest assured you are making a sustainable choice. They offset 100% of your delivery emissions to your door Source 100% renewable electricity for their production sites and offices and feature sustainably sourced seafood in their meals. [00:27:15] Head to Factor [00:27:16] Marker [00:27:16] Jeff: meals.com/ Overtired 50 and use code Overtired 50 to get 50% off your first box. That’s code Overtired 50. And that’s the number 50, not spelled out@factormeals.com slash Overtired 50 to get 50% off your first box. And, and I’ll just say we got a free box and um, I was truly surprised. Like it w first of all, it was way less packaging than some of the other options I’ve noticed. [00:27:44] Um, but like it tasted fresh and it was flavorful and it had more than just two sort of layers of flavor. Like microwave things often can, yeah, [00:27:55] Brett: yeah. I’ve sub, I’ve subscribed to meal plans cuz like the convenience of [00:28:00] microwave meals can’t be beat. Um, like I appreciate meal kits that let me do some cooking, but that takes half an hour. [00:28:08] Right. And. And part of the convenience of a meal plan is not having to spend so much time on food. So these microwave meals are great, but this is the first time I’ve ever had microwave meals that actually impressed me and didn’t feel like a major compromise. Um, yeah. Yeah. They were, they’re [00:28:27] Jeff: delicious. [00:28:28] And, and like also, it’s pretty rare that you can satisfy all four members of our family and, and Sure. This did and, and, um, yeah, and, and also like, I mean this is, let’s, this is kind of separate from the read here, but just to say like, my spouse and I have often joked and it’s not a joke fucking dinner again. [00:28:46] Like, seriously, this happens every day. Um, so it’s always something easy is always welcome. Anyway, um, so yeah, that’s that, that’s that. Get your box, get your box of food, [00:29:00] 50% off free, [00:29:01] Brett: separate food. Separate from the read. I want to say. I don’t know what factors, um, Employee treatment policy is they’re now owned by HelloFresh, which has done too much union busting for me to accept them as a sponsor. [00:29:21] Um, and I don’t know if Factor is completely separate from that as far as their employee treatment goes. So if it comes to light, that factor is union busting, we will probably cease to have them as a sponsor and issue an apology. Um, but for now, based on the research I’ve done, these guys are okay. [00:29:45] Jeff: Despite making everything Wes and not theys. Yeah. Right. Ours and not theirs. There’s, there’s some pronoun issues Yeah. In this read. All right. Anyway, um, okay. So I have a couple, I was [00:30:00] rolling over cables on my floor. I have a couple of, um, of topics. Uh, I think, um, and I wanted to, I wanted to start with one. [00:30:08] Skills Assessment [00:30:08] Jeff: I, I got to thinking. As I often do, I, I sort of marvel at, at your coia of skills. Um, and as, as we’ve talked about on, on episodes before, the sort of, uh, graciousness of the tools you build, um, they, they, I know that, you know, the ones that I use, which is most of them, um, really helped me with my, my sense of, um, just my sense of control. [00:30:34] Um, I can, I can really just kind of lose a sense of centeredness when I’m working, especially if I’m working on projects with like three different clients in a day. Um, and so brought your tools or even just the philosophy of them helped me a lot. So even if I’ve fallen off of the Terpstra wagon on some tool I used to use all the time, um, The sort of general philosophy [00:31:00] behind it. [00:31:00] It’s just like, let’s, let’s create order, um, where there is chaos, not pretending that the chaos doesn’t exist. That’s actually a quality of your tools that I think is, is undersold. Um, it accepts the chaos, uh, and tries to work on top of it, dance on the chaotic waters, if you will. Um, anyway, I’m, I’m going going so, so far into this bit, I was wondering if you had one skill that you could kind of snap your fingers and then apply to the, the kind of work you’ve always been doing, what would it be? [00:31:34] Huh? [00:31:39] Brett: I. Like skill, like a, like a programming [00:31:43] Jeff: skill. It could be a skill or it could be like all of a sudden you are very good at thinking about and, and applying that thinking to, you know, whatever, thinking about a thing. [00:31:55] Brett: Yeah. Um, a thing that I would like to think more about [00:32:00] would be, um, future, future-proofing code. [00:32:06] Mm-hmm. Um, and I’ve gotten way better at it. Mm-hmm. Um, I’ve gotten way better at writing code that other people can easily, um, manipulate and, and, uh, contribute to. Yeah. [00:32:18] Jeff: Take actually y you’re kind of defining now what, um, future proofing means, but go further into your definition of that. [00:32:24] Brett: Well, so write, yeah. [00:32:26] Writing maintainable code, I guess is how I would phrase that. Um, writing code that. A lot of the stuff that I’ve done has been based on APIs. Uh, take Twitter for example. Um, like a lot of the tools that I wrote around Twitter, suddenly no longer work. Yeah. Um, and writing code in a modular way that it’s easy to say, uh, substitute, uh, activity pub or whatever Blue Skies API is called, um, [00:33:00] to make it as modular as possible so that can easily be transformed when some, when something underlying breaks or, you know, like a a, a coding language like Ruby or Python goes through a major upgrade, um, make it code that’s easy to retrofit. [00:33:21] Into, uh, new requirements. And that’s, so it’s, it’s a talent I’ve, I’ve been developing, but definitely one that I would like to, if I could just snap my fingers and be good at something, that’s what I would like. [00:33:36] Jeff: Okay. So then distinguish for me, I think, you know, we can all intuit what that looks like in terms of comments, you know Yeah. [00:33:43] Which I wanna talk about in a minute. But like, I’m very interested in, in what that means in terms of writing the code itself. Like what, what are the qualities of code? You’ve said modularity is one, right? Yeah, yeah. That is future proof. It [00:33:57] Brett: is, it’s modularity. It’s, um, [00:34:00] like when I first start working on something, I tend to write these long spaghetti scripts, like all in one file. [00:34:09] Uh, not broken up well into functions, um, but by, by breaking it up into smaller methods and functions, um, that aren’t. That are, that can serve as like a single point of failure, uh, means that you can just update one function. And everything else will work, um, by properly reusing code and by, by making every action into a modular piece. [00:34:42] Then when something breaks, like say for example, you have a function that performs an API call. If you, if that API call is in the script itself and, and, uh, repeated multiple times [00:35:00] factoring, if that API changes, factoring becomes a hassle. Whereas if you call out to a single function that makes the API call, um, and maybe takes parameters, that can change what the API call is. [00:35:16] Um, then if something changes in the api, you can just factor that one function and everything continues working. [00:35:24] Jeff: Um, I would. I would imagine too, that taking that approach means that if somebody, let’s say that there’s a brand new language called Zu, uh, in, in 15 years and, and somebody who’s really good at Zul goes to look at your Ruby work and it’s, and it’s, and it’s built exactly the way you’ve just described it. [00:35:43] It must be easier to apply it to your own thing. Because you’re kind of going, oh, I see he’s doing this here and then this. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve [00:35:50] Brett: done some work lately. Trans translating Ruby into type script. And definitely, um, the, the more [00:36:00] modular something is, the easier it is to grok exactly what’s happening in a method and to rewrite it in a new language. [00:36:09] And it would be nearly impossible to convert something that was just one huge function that did everything. Uh, yeah. And you have to convert it like line by line, but you don’t know exactly how things relate to each other. And yeah, the more modular you can make it, the easier it is to translate between languages. [00:36:29] Jeff: Okay. So, so then beyond comments, I’m wondering, so I think a lot about this with, um, We talked about it last week, like when you’re using ai, like how do you denote that, right? And how do you denote it in a way that has the best chance of surviving into the future? But like, even separate than that, I’ve started to realize that, you know, with things moving so fast, like even as metadata, I would like to add a paratitudeh of context, you know? [00:36:55] Um, and or I I was wondering in your case, like, [00:37:00] is it, is it useful to comment, is it useful in the comments to say, Hey, I made this, you know, I made this thing to call this, you know, this particular a p i, this was this version of the p i and it was done in this year. Yeah, yeah, for sure. This month of this year, you know, I mean, work [00:37:18] Brett: that’s usually discernible like a well-written p i has its version number in the rest u r url. [00:37:24] I was gonna ask about that. So it’s, it’s usually pretty easy to discern, um, in cases where that’s not true. Absolutely. Uh, like denoting what version of the API you’re using, like, that’s for me, like comments. You can explain literally everything that happens in a function. And if you use like chat g p t to write your comments for you, it will, it will explain everything the function is doing and it will explain how each parameter is used, which is, I mean, [00:38:00] thorough, but when I’m reading somebody else’s code, I’m usually doing it with enough knowledge to glance at a block of code and understand what it’s doing and how it’s doing it. [00:38:13] Um, and the comments for me should just serve to, um, it should be like one or two lines that denote. Here’s, here’s what I did here. Maybe some comments within the function saying, you know, to do or fix me, or explaining why something is an unexpected way. Um, I really like yard. Um, I don’t know if you’re familiar with yard. [00:38:40] No. What’s [00:38:40] Jeff: yard? Uh, is it, is it uh, part of [00:38:42] Brett: Zu? It’s a documentation syntax use, uh, I think only for Ruby, but, um, it’s a lot like JS Doc or other, I’m sure there are things in Python that are similar, but you can write the comments out and then run. A yard [00:39:00] processing on it and it turns it into documentation. [00:39:03] Oh. Uh, so what you see is the name of the method, a description of what the method does, and then a description of every parameter it takes, and, and then it tells you what it returns, you know, an object or a hash or whatever. [00:39:18] Jeff: I’ve often wondered with comments like, where, I’m sure everyone’s different with this, but where do you draw the line between, okay, I am, I am only going to address people who have a sort of implicit skillset, um, that, that would cause them to be reading this code in the first place. [00:39:33] Like, yeah, that’s, how do you think about that? That’s a [00:39:35] Brett: good question. Like in this age of AI, that we are very suddenly in very suddenly, um, I don’t think it’s necessary to over document anything because any coder, even if they’re fresh to a language, can now ask chat g p t to explain code to them. Yeah, and it will do that. [00:39:58] And you could put that all in the [00:40:00] comments, but I feel like. I don’t know exactly where the line is, but there’s a limit to how much is actually useful when someone could just select a code block and say, explain this to me. [00:40:12] Jeff: Right, right. That’s true. Yeah. I think the only, and this hardly ever happens in comments, but it certainly does happen in comments. [00:40:19] The only, the only thing that you could add is voice. Yeah. Right. Like, which isn’t necessarily that important, but it’s like, well, [00:40:28] Brett: yeah, in code comments, you don’t. Yeah, you don’t have voice. I, I find voice annoying. Yeah, I do. I [00:40:34] Jeff: I do too. When I’m reading code, I don’t, you know. Yeah. But I, but it’s like, uh, you know, if you really zoom in on a silicone chip, there’s usually these little etchings that are like, there’s Pacman, or it’s like something silly that’s way, way deep in there. [00:40:47] Um, that’s fun, but that’s different. That’s an Easter egg. Most people just can’t see that. Yeah. That’s an Easter egg. Exactly. Um, okay, I have another related, like, uh, what if you could question that’s related to [00:41:00] last week. I talked about, um, being so happy to have found a Firefox extension that merges windows. [00:41:06] Um, because I, I spray tabs and windows, uh, indiscriminately into the crowd, um, every day on my monitors. And, and I know with like sublime text, I’ve taken advantage for so long on being able to just merge all the tabs into one window. Um, cuz I, I just like, for whatever reason, like if I’m in a big hurry, it’s just straight to a text factoror, even though I’ve got. [00:41:30] Envy ultra running. That’s where all my texts, you know, that’s where it all lives. But like I just go to sublime text. So anyway, one of the, one of the kind of reasons that that’s important is, you know, for me, we talked last week about how I need something that I can smash and everything goes back into some sort of order, right? [00:41:48] So like, uh, for me it’s being able to merge windows. Um, there are of course all these like more nuanced things. Like I have Hazel working on a ton of desktop folders to make sure that my desktop is never totally [00:42:00] insane. Um, so there’s things like that as well that are kind of running in the background. [00:42:04] But there’s this like thing that happens every day, which is my windows just build up and build up to the point where sometimes I kind of can’t think. Um, and, uh, and I need to reset. I’m curious for you. Mr. Like I’ve, I’ve written a fucking hack for everything. Um, is there something that’s, that’s, that is common to how you use your computer right now, um, that causes chaos, that is as of yet unsolved? [00:42:29] Brett: Hmm. I, so I, like, I, I have a messy desk. Yeah. Like my physical desk is, is always a little bit messy. Uh, it gets cleaned. Maybe every other month I’ll do a full clean on it, but like, I, I thrive with a certain amount of clutter. Yeah. And like right now, looking at my, my desktop, um, computer desktop, I can see, [00:43:00] see 12 different windows across two, two displays, and it doesn’t bother me at all. [00:43:06] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, like using command tab switching and, uh, hiding and minimizing. Like, makes that very manageable for me. Yeah. Um, I do like to use Bunch when I’m switching to a new context that does not require all of the windows I currently have open. I’ll just use Bunch and hide all or quit everything. [00:43:33] Uh, bunch has a command to literally quit every running app. Yeah. Um, right. Every, every running non menu bar or app, the ultimate big red button, you can just put, burn Everything into a bunch file and it will quit everything and open like a new workspace for you. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I don’t, I don’t have any friction in the way I’m working right now. [00:43:59] Um, [00:44:00] I like being able to, like, a lot of times I’ll be working in two apps at once. Um, Or two or two windows at once, and I have keyboard shortcuts that will move windows to left and right sides of the screen. Sure. Or, or like I have a keyboard shortcut when I’m working in sublime or multi markdown composer, I can just hit hyper in my case, hyper mod K, which is the same as hyper down arrow. [00:44:29] Yeah. Um, and it will center, it’ll narrow the window to like, uh, 800 pixel width and center it on the screen full, full height. And like, that’s, that’s how I like to factor text and like keyboard shortcuts that, uh, that move my windows around and arrange everything. And I can pretty much navigate entirely using my keyboard. [00:44:57] And I’m, I’m pretty happy with it. [00:45:00] I don’t, I don’t, I don’t have any problems that are nagging me. [00:45:04] Jeff: Yeah, I’m still in a situation where, partly, again, because I work on different projects with different clients, there’s like different ways of communicating. There are different ways of storing the project data. [00:45:18] Um, one way I, I kind of control all of that right now is my stream deck always has. Like, we use Google Drive a lot, which I do not love, but we use it all the time. And there are things I like about it, but overall I don’t love it. But how else are you gonna do this collaboratively? Right. So I have buttons for like, all of the major folders. [00:45:36] Yeah. Um, that’s mostly because where I have this kind of quality or this, let’s just call it a problem, um, where if I’m in a meeting, um, it’s very difficult for me to navigate things on my computer while I’m in the context of a meeting. I get, um, sort of, I’m almost like rattled if I try it’s kind. I have this problem when I’m driving where if I’m driving alone or with somebody who’s [00:46:00] quiet, I’m fine. [00:46:01] If I’m driving and talking, I’ll miss every single fucking turn. I’ll randomly turn. Right. Like all kinds of things go on. Sure. Um, and [00:46:09] Brett: it’s similar. You’re not a multitasker. Most people aren’t. [00:46:11] Jeff: No, I, and I, I accept that. Right. Like that’s like it’s scientifically supported. Yeah. It’s not, not a thing that is actually what we think it is. [00:46:21] But anyway, um, For me, having these physical buttons on the stream deck so that when I’m in a conversation with somebody, I know I can quickly pull up these folders and then help answer the question. There’s something in me that, um, it definitely lived in me in school where I was constantly terrified of being put on the spot. [00:46:40] Um, whereas I’m really super comfortable sort of in a, in a truly collaborative conversation, but if I think I’m gonna be put on the spot, I’m, I’m like, hot faced from the start. Right? Yeah. So this kind of helps me to just. Pull shit up. I need it so bad. Um, and, and, and likewise the thing that I’ve, I’ve [00:47:00] really, um, not dedicated enough time to, I need information at my hands and so I don’t have enough and say Envy Ultra, um, to be able to really quickly call up information. [00:47:11] And my goal would be to have all of my 8 million notes I’ve made in Sublime, um, that are saved in like project folders to have them all be like well organized notes in NV Ultra so that I can just pull information up quickly. Um, cuz I really pan I panic in context. Like if I’m, and if I’m in the middle of a meeting, I just [00:47:30] Brett: can’t do it. [00:47:30] So, in a similar vein, like the one thing I have on my stream deck that’s, that’s related is I have a button that raises up the zoom. Uh, yes. So I can, I can go off, I can, it’s like a panic button almost. So like, while someone’s talking, I can go check, uh, something on my machine. Yeah. I can look whatever app is necessary to follow up on what’s happening in the meeting. [00:47:59] And then with [00:48:00] one button, I can bring the, uh, now, now obscure zoom window back to the foreground. Yeah. Um, see whatever’s being shared or everything. I, I hate when screen sharing starts and it goes full screen. Yeah. Oh, I hate that that messes with me. So I immediately will always move it back to, uh, a regular window. [00:48:22] And I think [00:48:22] Jeff: you can set it to not do that. Yeah. But I still, I’ve never done it. Yeah. [00:48:26] Brett: I’ve never figured that out either. Um, but with one button, then I can get back and see what people are saying, what’s happening. Uh, and then I have buttons for mute and unmute. Yeah. Um. And start and stop video because I really appreciate at, at Oracle how it’s been normalized to show up for meetings without video. [00:48:50] Oh, that’s wonderful. It is, it is. It’s great. And like if I’m, if I’m in a one-on-one meeting and the person I’m talking to you turns on their [00:49:00] camera, I will also. Mm-hmm. Um, just cuz it feels like it’s a normal, a mutual thing. Yeah. But in most meetings I don’t have a camera on. Um, if things, if a personal question is asked that I feel like deserves a video response, I have a button that’ll turn that on for me. [00:49:19] And that’s a nice idea off later. Um, that’s a nice idea. Um, so have you played around with Hook mark? [00:49:27] Jeff: So, yes, and not since it became, I mean, I played around with it when it was called what hook. And here’s the thing. When I play with a tool like that, I can immediately see that. I am not going to go all the way in, which means I’m gonna have all this fucking croft everywhere, I think. [00:49:45] Sure. I don’t know if there’s literally Croft left behind, but since it became hook mark and it showed up in my setup and I feel like maybe it’s gonna be around, I’ve been meaning to play with it. So tell me, tell me why you [00:49:56] Brett: brought it up. Well, so when you talk about having a [00:50:00] bunch of notes in sublime, like hook mark makes it possible to, uh, organize and search. [00:50:09] Documents in disparate places. Yeah. Um, like I like NV Ultra for all of my notes. Yeah. And it, like the full tech search makes, I’ve never had, I’ve never had to take more than five keystrokes to get to what I’m, what I’m looking for. But yeah, I also have notes in PDF files. I have notes in Quip documents. I have notes in, you know, wherever. [00:50:38] And with hook mark I can correlate, like I’ll have a, I’ll have a project where it has a task paper file in my GitHub repository, and I will just hook Mark. I will hook that, that, uh, test paper file to all of the related [00:51:00] notes, whether it’s a mind map, whether it’s an NV Ultra note, whether it’s a document somewhere else on the system. [00:51:06] And from any of those connected documents, I can then just load up, hook mark, and flip to any other linked document. And it takes a little, there’s some, there’s a level of effort involved. You have to link things that you know you’re going to want to switch between in the future. It’s not like, it’s not like tagging where you can just tag something with a common tag and then be able to find it in finder search or with, uh, Huda spot or whatever. [00:51:40] Um, you have to, you have to create. Very intentional links between items. [00:51:47] Jeff: So I have a question. Well, first question is, is a really important obvious one, which is do the links to these files follow the files through the system? If you move them around? Yes. Yes. And then, okay, I figured. So, [00:51:58] Brett: um, they’re, I think they could [00:52:00] refer to them as sturdy links. [00:52:02] Oh, sturdy. Yeah. Like, you know [00:52:04] Jeff: what? That’s a sturdy link. [00:52:06] Brett: So Mac OS offers this thing called bookmarks, um, not, not to the average user, but every file on the system has a kind of a digital footprint that you can change the name of the file and the bookmark doesn’t change. It represents a file system object. [00:52:27] Um, that doesn’t, it doesn’t matter where it’s located. It doesn’t matter what it’s named. The bookmark will always find it. And I believe that’s what Hook Mark uses to [00:52:36] Jeff: make these. I was, you know, I was gonna ask you what does this look like behind what’s behind the link? Yeah. [00:52:42] Brett: Um, okay. So Hook Mark can also work with, um, any app that offers. [00:52:50] An Apple script or URL handler way to access a deep link. Meaning like, sure, you can open the document, you can open a [00:53:00] pdf, but what if you had a particular note in the PDF you wanted to be able to access? Yeah. Uh, or like a specific paragraph. And so a deep link would take you straight to that paragraph. [00:53:13] Got it. Um, those don’t have file system bookmarks the way they don’t that Okay. The way that a file would, the file itself can, but it’s dependent on the application to be able to read exactly where it wants to go. And like hook mark is compatible with a ton of like PDF viewers. For example, um, I can’t remember. [00:53:37] I don’t do a lot of deep linking in n PDFs, so I don’t remember exactly what apps are compatible with it. But, um, for researchers that that use, uh, PDFs constantly and want, want to get to highlighted notes and stuff, Oakmark integrates with some very specific apps in [00:54:00] ways that aren’t necessarily file, uh, os dependent. [00:54:04] Uh, but they are app dependent. So [00:54:06] Jeff: in the case of deep links, that’s not something that Apple provides any access to. That’s something a, a programmer has to decide to add into their app. Right. Interesting. Um, and okay, so one final question about Hook mark is actually about this bookmark thing you were just talking about. [00:54:25] How can, how can you see those? I mean, how can I, if I wanted to see what that file looks like and where those bookmarks are, what, what, what would be my pathway to seeing it? [00:54:35] Brett: Um, so I published a tool called book. [00:54:40] Jeff: It’s always the answer. I published, I published a tool called, [00:54:45] Brett: yeah, I, it’s called Bookmark. I can’t remember if it’s easily accessible on my blog or not. [00:54:51] I’ll find a link for the show notes. Uh, but, but really like this is accessible through Objective C and Swift. [00:55:00] Uh, it’s not something that is exposed to Yeah, any of the standard interface. Um, [00:55:08] Jeff: it’s not search link. No. That’s what comes up when I search Terpstra. Bookmark. [00:55:13] Brett: Yeah. Um, no, it’s, it’s literally, it’s just a, it’s a compiled program. [00:55:22] Bookmark on my site. Oh, wait, [00:55:31] I’ll see if I can find you a link real quick. factor. [00:55:40] Yeah. No. Oh, bookmark seal out here it is. [00:55:46] Dropping it into, we’ll put it in Slack and you can see what I’m talking about. Awesome. Um, Jeff, [00:55:55] Jeff: that’s me. That’s me. Yeah. [00:55:59] Brett: So [00:56:00] it like this tool I wrote basically uses objective C to expose the bookmark data for a file and it outputs it as a reasonable length. Um, basic 64. Uh, kind of fingerprint. Got it. [00:56:19] And it can read those and write those, so you can use it in scripts to, to follow a, a bookmark for a file instead of hard coding. The path to a file. Yeah. Um, you can record its bookmark and access it again, using that no matter where the file moves to on the system. [00:56:40] Jeff: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Um, even though this was kind of its own deep gratitude, uh, before we get to official gratitude, uh, because it’s getting about that time. [00:56:49] Yeah. I just wanted to say if I could snap my fingers and have any ability, it would be the ability to make space, um, in a professional context [00:57:00] to make space when there’s a new tool. I see. And I really want to play with it enough to be able to think about it, um, to be able to just make that space and not have it interrupt flows that are supposed to end in deadlines. [00:57:13] I, um, was talking to a friend who is, uh, an artist who makes these, um, these things called breathers, Paul Chan. Um, and they’re basically, if you think of the, like wavy hand things at the, at the car lot. Yeah. Uhhuh, um, He kind of figured a way to make these into things that actually elicit other emotions besides just joy. [00:57:34] Sure. Um, and, and whimsy. Um, and, and, and doing that. And if anybody’s in Minnesota, he’s, he’s, he’s got a whole bunch of these at the Walker right now. Um, doing that sometimes just one piece. He spent 89 weeks sewing, breaking down, sewing, breaking down. And an artist can do that when they’re successful and they make money that they can just decide to do that and he’s in that wonderful [00:58:00] place. [00:58:00] Um, but I wish there was a way in, in the manic world of knowledge work to find, uh, time that isn’t just, not, not late at night when you can otherwise be hanging out with your friends or family, but in the, in the, in the course of the day to just make that spaciousness. Cuz boy, I got a long list of how I’d use that. [00:58:19] Which then of course creates its own lack of spaciousness. Sure, sure. It’s all the way down. Um, but. Shall we? Gratitude? Yeah, [00:58:27] Grapptitude [00:58:27] Brett: let’s do it. Do you want Go ahead. Me to go first? Yeah, go ahead. All right. Um, I’m picking Kaleidoscope this week. Um, we may have picked it before, but they just came out with version four. [00:58:40] Um, and the, they had previously implemented a subscription price that, while I thought they deserved it, I didn’t think it was, um, commercially viable. [00:58:57] Jeff: A lot of money. Like 1 25 or something [00:58:59] Brett: like that? [00:59:00] Yeah. Like the yearly costs I paid, it would’ve quickly added up. Um, their new, their new price is $8 a month if you pay yearly. [00:59:11] Um, which. Got it to me for, for what they’re offering is, is a good sustainable deal. Um, and the new version does syntax highlighting of most coding languages. And, uh, it adds this menu bar, let me rewind. Uh, kaleidoscope is a diff program. Mm-hmm. Um, it, it gives you a, a graphical interface to, uh, diffs changes between two versions of a file. [00:59:45] It works great with Git for comparing change sets, for, uh, doing merges. Uh, if you have a merge conflict, I don’t mess around with, uh, raw files or with. Cherry [01:00:00] picking. I just run, uh, Git merge tool and it opens the conflicts for me in Kaleidoscope. And I can just use keyboard shortcuts to navigate through and pick, do I want the original or the modified or like my local version and I merge them, save, hit save, and go back to get and commit the changes and everything works. [01:00:27] Um, it gives you, it’s, it’s a, it’s a great looking app. Uh, [01:00:32] Jeff: so good di it makes Diffs mesmerizing. [01:00:35] Brett: Yeah, for sure. And you can view Diffs as side by side, unified, or, um, Uh, with, I, I don’t know what it’s called, when you, it’s like a map and it has like arrows between or like lines. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Between the two Diffs, um, I don’t know what that’s called, but, uh, the newest version adds a menu bar [01:01:00] item called, uh, kaleidoscope Prism. [01:01:03] And you can use that to diff clipboard objects. You can drag multiple files to it. Um, and it runs even when Kaleidoscope isn’t running. Uh, one, one feature they added was the ability to save a change set to, to save like, uh, a comparison as a new file. Hmm. Allowing direct factoring and I, interesting. I had to email them cuz I’m like, can you explain to me how this works in your workflow? [01:01:37] Like under what circumstances is this? Important. So I’m waiting for an email back from them on that before I write a review for my blog. Oh, nice. Because it seems like a very cool feature that should be important. I just don’t yet understand how it would fit into my workflow. Like what, [01:02:00] what do I do that could be easier if I could save and factor a change, a merge file, I guess they call it. [01:02:08] That’s, [01:02:08] Jeff: but that’s what I do with spaciousness. It’s exactly the kind of shit I would do with spaciousness. [01:02:15] Brett: So anyway, if you’re, if you’re a code, it can also do, um, image comparisons, so you can see exactly what changed between two versions of an image. Um, and folder comparisons, which I find very handy if, like, for my, um, all of my Phish functions. [01:02:35] Yeah. I, I factor locally and then will publish the pertinent ones to GitHub. So I, I use, uh, kaleidoscope’s folder comparison to compare my GitHub folder with my local folder and, and then I can just click on the files that I actually want to show up in the, I have not used [01:02:55] Jeff: it for that. That’s great. [01:02:57] Brett: Yeah. [01:02:57] It’s, it’s cool. So that’s my [01:03:00] pick [01:03:00] Jeff: for the, the, the, if, if we’ve cut your ear at the moment, kaleidoscope, the thing that I would love, and I’m sure it’s a whole thing, or it would be there is, um, audio diffs, uh, just, you know, like a three minute, you know, clip. You’ve got the wave form you’ve factored a little bit. [01:03:16] Show me how it’s different. Show me what I cut out. Show me or or video [01:03:20] Brett: while you’re at it. Like, yeah, I saw, I was watching. Um, a video on it was a reaction to a particular, uh, hardcore, um, creationist, and it showed how they were factoring when they published their version of an interview or a debate, um, how they, where they were factoring. [01:03:47] The video because like this, in this example, the, the debate itself in its full form was like an hour and a half. And what the creationist published was like 20 minutes. That made him look [01:04:00] like he won the debate. Yeah. And they showed, uh, A frame. Like a, like a, what would you call it? A timeline? Yeah. Um, of the two versions with big red blocks. [01:04:12] That’s awesome. Where stuff was factored out. That would be, this was like [01:04:16] Jeff: a, a, this was like a visualization they created. Yeah. It wasn’t necessarily automatically generated. Right. [01:04:21] Brett: Yeah. Got it. Okay. Well, I mean, I don’t know if there’s a tool that does this, like it seems like it would be, there must be a tool, it does this, we’ll, we’ll do our homework. [01:04:30] There must be, it would be such a huge manual process to go through and like figure out exactly where something was factored. But [01:04:37] Jeff: completely, I, I guess the, the last thing I’d say about Kaleidoscope is it’s an app like name Mangler, which I love, which is also beautifully designed where these are things you can do programmatically for the most part. [01:04:48] Yeah. But they make it not just user friendly, but like beautiful. So that even it sounds like from you Brett, like even people who are perfectly capable of doing this without Kaleidoscope choose Kaleidoscope. Yeah. Because it’s [01:05:00] stunning. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it’s very clear, very, very clear. It’s just a wonderful, [01:05:04] Brett: and they’re, they’re free merge and diff tools. [01:05:08] Um, D Delta, I can’t even remember. Like I, I’m out of the game cuz Kaleidoscope. Storm my heart. [01:05:17] Jeff: Um, mine is actually just a way that I’m using bunch, um, this weekend as I’m, when I, as I find little bits of time. So this is related to me talking about things getting chaotic and, and wanting to have a big red button. [01:05:32] Um, one specific way, uh, things got chaotic for me last week is I had an incredibly, uh, overscheduled week that involved, you know, interviewing candidates for this pro project manager job and doing interviews for a project I’m on and all this stuff. And I. I don’t know what happened, but twice this week under different circumstances, one my fault, one not, um, I was scheduled to interview a group of people and I only knew that I was the one on that interview cause I’m [01:06:00] sharing it with a colleague because I got that email from Zoom that said, so and so has joined your zoom room, which is the fucking nightmare if you don’t know what that’s about. [01:06:09] Yeah, for sure. And so I’m, I’m writing a bunch. It happened twice, right? Like, that’s the other thing is like, I feel like it’s really important, like if something happens twice, just try to take 10 minutes and yeah. Automate that shit. So, um, it happened twice and so I’m, what I’m writing is a bunch that really pulls up the script. [01:06:25] The protocol for that particular project, um, gets me in my Zoom room as quickly as possible without video. Um, there was one where I was throwing on a shirt, putting on a button down shirt before I got, just before I got there. Um, but just gets me set up and has everything in front of me. And actually, if that’s the case, I can just pick right up. [01:06:45] It’s not a big deal. Like if it’s, if I only have two seconds prepare prepared, but everything’s in front of me, that’s okay. Yeah. It’s when I start and I’m not prepared that I’m screwed. Yeah. So that’s a, that’s a use for bunch. That’s my gratitude. Thanks Brett. [01:06:58] Brett: You’re welcome. [01:07:00] I haven’t, I haven’t added much to a bunch for a while now. [01:07:03] Jeff: Well, you added enough over the course of like a year. [01:07:07] Brett: That was, that was the result of many manic episodes. Right? Right. Um, but now I’ve been stable for long enough that I’ve, I’ve been able to correct some, uh, some bugs. I’ve done some bug fixing and. Oh, I added support for the Eric browser was like the last Oh, nice. [01:07:28] Jeff: Last update. But, well, given the connection to manic episodes, I hope for absolutely no updates to bunch users out there. If you, if you care about Brett, just, just let ’em know you’re not looking for an update. Don’t tell ’em you are looking for an update. [01:07:43] Brett: My, my psychiatrist and I and my therapist are all in agreement that the occasional, occasional manic episode is productive for me. [01:07:56] Yeah. Um, and that I don’t really wanna [01:08:00] live life with zero manic episodes. Yeah. Um, But like monthly manic episodes is a bit much to handle. Yes. And like constantly, constantly, uh, ping ponging between mania and depression Yeah. That’s, is, uh, is less productive than just being stable. So we’re, we’re finding our balance, [01:08:23] Jeff: but yeah. [01:08:24] Yeah. I’m glad. I’m so glad. That’s really, uh, that’s been a big change of the arc of the time that I’ve been on this podcast and that I’ve known you. [01:08:32] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s definitely a constant, it’s a constant kind of struggle for me to like find a balance. [01:08:40] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I know one way that helps get some sleep. [01:08:45] Get some sleep, Jeff. [01:08:50] [01:09:00]

The gang’s back and ready to chat about Apple Savings Accounts, insecure TLDs, and tab management. Sponsor From Macs, iPhones, iPads, Apple Watches, Apple TV to the ins and outs of Apple shaking things up in tech… you name it, the MacBreak Weekly podcast covers it. Get a new episode of MacBreak Weekly every Tuesday by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like video games but can’t remember the last time you hit the end credits, check out The Short Game podcast. The Short Game podcast. Games that respect your time. shortgame.fm. Show Links Apple Savings Account Google .zip TLD modular bluetooth headphones ground.news Default Folder X 6 Sky.app for macOS FoxyTab. Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript I (Git) Blame You [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, over tired. [00:00:04] Christina: You are listening to Overtired. That’s right. We are back. I’m Christina Warren, joined as always by my friends, Brett Terpstra and Jeff Severns Guntzel. Boys. How are you? It’s been a while. [00:00:15] Brett: It’s good to be back. [00:00:16] Jeffrey: Yeah, good. You’re going to hear birds. Maybe because I refuse to shut my windows for audio quality because it’s Minnesota and it’s warm, and so let’s do [00:00:26] Christina: Absolutely. [00:00:27] Brett: directional mic. It’s working [00:00:29] Jeffrey: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. I also have a cat that has started walking across my keyboard. I, I call him the intern now because he sent an email and deleted another, so [00:00:37] Mental Health Corner: Pets Edition [00:00:37] Brett: You guys want a, a Yeti update? [00:00:39] Christina: How How’s Yeti doing? [00:00:40] Jeffrey: yeah, the old cat. How’s the old cat? [00:00:42] Brett: So like yesterday I took him, he’s getting these shots. I can’t remember what they’re called, but they are supposed to help with like mobility and aging cats and, and they work for ’em. Um, But yesterday when I was in, I mentioned some specific problems he was [00:01:00] having and they were like, oh, this combination of him aging, dropping weight, and then these like basically stool issues, um, could be a really bad sign. [00:01:12] Brett: So we would like you to make an appointment to uh, do some, do, do a consultation, do a full physical, and I paid like $400 for labs. And then we had to go in today and I was literally expecting the worst because like two cats in a row, we took Clovis in because his breast smelled bad. And they were like, oh yeah, it’s oral cancer. [00:01:35] Brett: He has two weeks to live. [00:01:37] Christina: my [00:01:37] Brett: And you know, like this was a shock. And then we took Finnegan in because his meow had changed and we were concerned about like maybe something in his lungs or something. And he’s nine months old and they’re like, He, he’s got two weeks to live. So I have this like, fear of these appointments, but we went in today and they’re like, oh my God. [00:01:58] Brett: Yeah. E even [00:02:00] Yeti’s, uh, kidney illness. Ha the scores have come down. Everything’s looking great. You guys are doing a great job. Uh, we’re gonna, we’re gonna treat a bladder infection and we’re gonna put him on some more meds for his, uh, his runny stool. But yeah, they’re like, you’re doing a great job. This, this cat’s doing great for a 19 year old cat. [00:02:21] Brett: And I was like, oh. So relieved. It [00:02:23] Jeffrey: amazing. [00:02:24] Brett: it was because I was crying last night. I was preparing myself for the end of life, right? And so, like, I kept like, breaking down and I was like crying in front of Elle, just like trying to like deal with my, like, it’s time. We all know it’s time, but it’s mortality and it gets me. [00:02:45] Brett: And then today was such a relief. I have a little more time with my boy. [00:02:49] Christina: Yeah, that’s really good. That’s really good. I know. Yeah. And I know what you mean. Like having like that fear of like going to the doctor and hearing stuff because you’ve, that that’s the only experience you’ve had and like it sets you up. It’s, [00:03:00] you [00:03:00] Brett: Every, every pet I’ve ever had has died of cancer. Like there’s always this late stage cancer discovery and like with, with Emma, like we, we found out she had cancer and had to put her down the same day, like it all [00:03:16] Christina: uh, that’s the worst [00:03:18] Jeffrey: no wonder you’re pre crying going to the vet, you know? [00:03:22] Brett: I’ve had some trauma. Yeah. [00:03:24] Jeffrey: Yeah. Wow. I’m so happy. [00:03:27] Brett: you. Thank you. [00:03:28] Christina: That’s wonderful. [00:03:29] Brett: That might, that might even count as my mental health corner update. [00:03:32] Jeffrey: There you go. You’re, are you stepping out of the corner? I. [00:03:36] Brett: That’s me in the [00:03:37] Jeffrey: Oh no. Oh, [00:03:41] Christina: Uh, [00:03:41] Jeffrey: It’s gonna be stuck in my head. [00:03:43] Brett: I know, right? Have you ever seen the cat version of losing my religion where it’s just photos of cats and it’s like they illustrate like every line, like there’s literally a cat sitting in a corner and then there’s a cat, cat under a light [00:03:56] Christina: no I haven’t. [00:03:57] Brett: that’s me in the spotlight. And then [00:04:00] a cat in front of like a crucifix and it’s, [00:04:03] Christina: really funny. [00:04:04] Brett: it’s amusing. [00:04:05] Jeffrey: So there’s a, there’s a great story from a, a wonderful photographer based in Minneapolis. His name is Alex. So, and he’s this like kind of international photographer. He makes these, he’d uses like large format, um, cameras, and he makes these just stunning portraits. And at a certain point he started being asked to do things for like the New York Times Magazine or other things like that, like kind of big market stuff. [00:04:29] Jeffrey: And, and he was, he was told that Michael Steppe wanted to, um, wanted him to take his photo and, and he was at a point where he was just like not feeling, uh, this whole idea of like applying his art to celebrities. And so the photo he suggested, and ultimately the job was killed because of this, was that they, they meet in New York. [00:04:48] Jeffrey: And that Michael Stipe stand two blocks away and they take this gorgeous, cuz the, the large format camera is like, every detail of what’s in it is beautiful. So it would be a really compelling [00:05:00] photo. But Michael Stipe would be two blocks away, or one block probably. And, uh, so that, that got killed. But anyway, the, the r e m story always reminds you of that. [00:05:09] Jeffrey: I think it’s just a fun story. It’s not even snotty, it’s just like, he was like legitimately that’s just where he was [00:05:14] Brett: I love that idea. I feel like, yeah, if I were gonna have, I would love that picture of me to be like part of something larger and not have it be all about me. I, I would, I would and, and I would think Michael’s sip, like from what I know of him. [00:05:29] Jeffrey: You would think you’d be into it. Yeah. But like I, the, the cool thing, I’ll link this in the show notes, is that he has a photo, I think he was using as reference, which is this photo of a monk in the woods and the monk is just way off. Um, it’s just, it’s just the most amazing portrait. Anyway, I’ll pick up on the theme, which is just that I, I, I have this cat sitting next to me. [00:05:50] Jeffrey: His name is Murphy. He’s totally my best friend and my favorite person. And when he was a kid and he ate my Zoloft, that almost died. Um, and I often think [00:06:00] back to that and I get this like, enormous wave of grief. Uh, even though he’s fine, he is three years past it, it’s fine. But, uh, I, it just. I mean, so here’s like a, another cat related mental health check-in. [00:06:14] Jeffrey: I’ve started, I’ve started having a bed on my desk, like right to my right, which looks out a window. And my two cats, which are, they were they’re siblings. They were found, um, in a barn alone when they were little kittens. And so they, they’re like constantly together, constantly snuggling. So they actually, at this bed is really only big enough for Murphy, who’s the big boy. [00:06:34] Jeffrey: And then my other cat looks like the runt of a raccoon litter. And, and they sit in here and they make a little, like little fur pile and they snuggle while I’m working, like almost all [00:06:43] Jeffrey: day. And so if I’m having meetings that are stressful, I have one hand on this like giant fur pile, you know, and you can kind of feel the purring and feel the, the breathing. [00:06:53] Jeffrey: And [00:06:54] Brett: Our cat, nobody, uh, grew for a year and then just stopped growing. [00:07:00] So now she’s over two years old and still it’s the size of like, maybe even less than a one year old cat. She just, she’s a tiny, she’s a tiny cat. She’s a runt. She’s a runt of a, what’d you say? A raccoon litter [00:07:13] Jeffrey: Yeah, that’s what, that’s what my other cat looks like and acts like. Does that name nobody, did it come from the movie Dead Man, or did it come from [00:07:21] Brett: came from the graveyard book by Neil Gaiman. [00:07:23] Jeffrey: awesome? [00:07:24] Christina: so my, I guess, uh, in my updates, so this is a couple weeks old now, but my, uh, my sister’s dog, boo Bear, who we love, he’s definitely my sister’s first son. He, uh, he’s a poodle. Um, he’s whatever the, not the tiniest one is, which I guess is toy. He’s mini poodle, uh, or miniature poodle, whatever. But, but he, um, and, uh, and his twin brother, uh, P bear are, are not, um, and, and Pbe belongs to my mother-in-law. [00:07:49] Christina: But, um, boo Bear has cataracts or had cataracts, um, And, and it got to the point that like, it was really, really bad and he was basically completely blind and he had surgery last week [00:08:00] and he went through it pretty well. They wanted to add the lenses, but the vet basically said that she didn’t wanna keep him under that long cuz he doesn’t do super well with being under anesthesia. [00:08:10] Christina: So he didn’t have lenses put in, but the cataracts are at least removed. So hopefully he will at least get some of his, you know, vision back. Like, I think he’s gonna be able to see things from across the way, but he’ll still have a hard time with things up close. But I’m hopeful that that will at least improve some of his quality of life. [00:08:26] Christina: Cuz it was really, really sad to see him not like he, he knows he’s been staying with my parents. Um, because my sister’s gone a lot during the day and he knows the layout to most of their house, but like, not all of it, like, he got stuck in like the bathroom in the bedroom that I stay in. It’s, it’s hard seeing, um, seeing animals deteriorate. [00:08:43] Jeffrey: Sure is. [00:08:45] Brett: All right. Well, we have some topics. [00:08:47] Apple Savings [00:08:47] Jeffrey: Well, do you wanna talk about the um, apple savings account? Cause I know you really wanted to hit on that. [00:08:53] Brett: I just feel like everyone needs to know about this. So if you have an Apple card, you can [00:09:00] now, uh, sign up for an Apple savings account also through Goldman Sachs. And it comes with, and I assume this is true for everybody, it comes with like a 4.15 interest rate, and there’s no minimum balance. [00:09:15] Brett: There’s no minimum deposit, there’s no yearly fee. It is a far better savings account than I can get through my local credit union. I moved most of my savings at this point into this Apple savings account, and instead of, instead of your cash back from your Apple card going to an Apple Cash account, it can now go into an Apple savings account, which is earning four plus percent interest. [00:09:42] Christina: I was gonna ask you about this, cuz I’ve been looking at that cuz when they sign, when they uh, you know, introduced it, I, I signed up almost immediately cuz I had um, I think about a thousand dollars in Apple cash for various things. My typical thing is that I get like my, my Apple cash back. And then I usually let it stay in there, just kind of in [00:10:00] perpetuity. [00:10:00] Christina: And then like, you know, once it reaches a high enough balance, I pay for something with it or I, I transferred to my, I transferred to my bank account, is usually what I do. And in this case, I just hadn’t, and, and I was wrong. It wasn’t, um, uh, it wasn’t a thousand dollars, I think it was 500 cuz I transferred $2,000 to my bank account. [00:10:16] Christina: So I, I’d had like, I had like 2,500 in there and then I was like, I was like, I was like, I’m gonna put. Two, two. That was like back in my, in my, um, my checking account, which was probably dumb because what I was gonna ask you is cuz I have been considering like, I think that they let you put in like 20 grand, like on a, on a, a seven day period. [00:10:34] Christina: But like, how hard is it, I guess to get money in and out? Because I wouldn’t be opposed to putting, like with that 4% thing, like you said, that’s better than a credit union. It’s better than I can get with Bank of America and they give me some pretty decent rates because, um, of, of how long I’ve been there. [00:10:49] Christina: But like how, uh, how easy is it to get stuff in and out? Because if that’s the case, like I could see myself putting, you know, like, like 20, $40,000 [00:10:57] Brett: like your, whatever you pay your [00:11:00] Apple card with, uh, it’s automatically connected to the same bank account. Um, putting money in is seconds getting money out. Like, uh, I transferred money out of Apple savings for Yeti Vet Bills, and it took about 24 hours for the money to show up in my bank’s checking account. [00:11:20] Brett: So I wouldn’t say it’s difficult, it’s not instant, but as far as bank transfers go, it’s not two to three days, it’s a day. [00:11:28] Christina: Okay, cool. [00:11:30] Crazy-Ass Google [00:11:30] Brett: As long as we’re covering my quick hit topics. also wanna mention that Google’s tap level, domain zip is a horrible idea. Like right now, if you go to malicious content.zip, they have registered, I think there’s a blog called Malicious Content about, uh, Trojans and viruses and, and, and cybersecurity. [00:11:54] Brett: Um, if you go to malicious-content.zip, Firefox will [00:12:00] download a payload. [00:12:01] Christina: will Chrome and then, and what And, and what’s inside that is A P D F, which is also problematic, right? Because then, which honestly I have to say this is brilliant on the cybersecurity people who put that together because not only is the payload a zip file, which is bad enough, but then what’s inside the zip file as a P D F file. [00:12:17] Christina: So these are two things that have been very, very exploited by, by viruses and macros and all kinds of other things. Like we’re, we’re Mac users, we’re typically more immune to these things. Um, not universally. Definitely people can create macro trojans, but usually not in, in PDFs and stuff, but like, this is, this is how, this is how you get ants as they say. [00:12:37] Christina: Like, if you, do you want ants? This is how you could, ants [00:12:40] Jeffrey: Yeah. A PDF inside a zip file is kind of like the turducken of, um, you know, [00:12:45] Christina: Yeah. Like, like, like, like, like it was a, it was a doc file, not even Doc X, like doc, like, that would be like, like adding like, uh, uh, you know, the next level of, uh, of, of, of turducken ness. Like that would be like adding a, another, another piece of lobster or something.[00:13:00] [00:13:00] Brett: what do you think Google was thinking when they made a.zip domain? [00:13:04] Jeffrey: confusing cuz obviously it’s the first thing you think is like, this is no [00:13:07] Brett: Yeah, yeah. [00:13:08] Jeffrey: super smart. So why did they knock that concern [00:13:12] Jeffrey: down? [00:13:12] Brett: feel like, I feel like somebody would’ve said as a top level domain, this is, this is ill faded. Like they have AI experts, they have ethics experts. [00:13:23] Christina: have massive security teams. What are you talking about? Like they, they, they literally have like one of the best bounty teams where they find other people’s vulnerabilities and report them to them. Like they literally, like Google has some of the most talented, you know, engineers working for them. [00:13:38] Christina: We know that. But they also have very, very smart security people cuz they have to, and it’s so dumb. And the thing is, is like they also bought, uh, dot MOV domains, which is also a problem because QuickTime files. [00:13:49] Brett: like a exe domain. [00:13:51] Christina: It really is. I mean, and, and, and look, I know that there are purists out there. Cause I’ve seen these comments on various things like, well Calm was, was a file extension back in the eighties [00:14:00] and this and that, and I’m gonna be like, okay, fuck off. [00:14:02] Christina: Neck Beard. No one had the web in the eighties, first of all did not exist. The people who had access to those things were like people who worked at universities and institutions or very, very eager hacker kids. And even then they couldn’t afford to buy domains. So it was, to me it’s just not even a comparable situation. [00:14:22] Christina: Like the.zip thing is really bad because there are a lot of people who will have things hard coded in. And, um, I saw some, um, post who basically showed, like, because of some of the, the various, uh, unicode, uh, fuckery things you can still do with domains that, you know, the, uh, ICAN has still refused to address for years, despite being called on it for like literally years and years and years. [00:14:44] Christina: You can make two files look identical, where one would take you to like a GitHub repo. They would have a zip thing and one would look the same. And if you clicked on like, okay, which one of these is legit? And like, if you clicked on one of them, it would like take you to like, there’s nothing here. And if you clicked on another one, it would download a [00:15:00] zip file. [00:15:00] Christina: But one of them is not coming from a GitHub domain. It’s coming like it’s, all of this has been spoofed and, and it’s just like, like, you know, Unicode fuckery, this is really, really bad. But, but because of the, the way the, you know, they, they can, you know, modify this stuff with the.zip stuff. It’s just, to your point, they should know better. [00:15:18] Christina: And, and this isn’t the first time they’ve done stupid shit with their, um, top level domains. Like, do you remember when they bought, they bought.app and then they bought.dev and.dev was, was, um, problematic for a lot of people because, um, [00:15:33] Brett: testing domains. Yeah, I, I [00:15:35] Christina: exactly. Exactly. So, [00:15:36] Brett: of my, all of my local host domains. I had to change, instead of bt.dev to test my local website, I had to change to dev.bt and use an [00:15:48] Christina: Right. [00:15:49] Brett: t l d for all of my extensions. Yeah. [00:15:52] Christina: Exactly. And, and so, so they’ve, they’ve done this before and like there’s a part of me that I’m like, okay, maybe if they had bought it preemptively, because you [00:16:00] know, they, they take on all these top level domains. It’s like, okay, well maybe Google did this is for a good reason and they’re not gonna roll it out to people and, and protect the internet. [00:16:07] Christina: But no, they’re just like, no, well, we’ll we’ll sell ’em to you. Why not? It’s like, [00:16:11] Brett: Oh, [00:16:12] Christina: it’s like, shut up. [00:16:13] Jeffrey: It’s amazing. [00:16:14] Brett: do know. Don’t, don’t be evil. Yeah. [00:16:18] Christina: Yeah. That, that was a long time ago. [00:16:19] Brett: was a long time ago. It seemed so quaint in retrospect. [00:16:22] Christina: It really does. And you know what’s funny is like there are a lot of people I’m most, I’m absolutely including myself in this, who really gave Eric Schmidt a lot of shit when he was c e o and chairman. And I don’t, not saying that that was misguided cuz definitely like the guy is, You know, weird and whatever. [00:16:39] Christina: But if I compare him to like, what happened when he left, and then especially like Sundar, who just seems like the, the perfect combo of like incompetent and like aloof. Eric Schmidt at least had some balls. Like Eric Schmidt to his credit, pulled out of China, full stop. He said, we are making a business decision. [00:16:58] Christina: We will not operate [00:17:00] in China. Period. Full stop. And then it was years after he left when they were like, oh, well this is a really big market. We really, we have to find a way to sort of, you know, operate, but not really operate. They kind of reneged on that. But like, I still, in my opinion, that was one of the most standout standup like business moves I can ever recall any company taking because no other tech company made that decision. [00:17:21] Christina: And that was Eric Schmidt. So like, I’m, I’m sorry, Eric Schmidt. He, cuz he was the one who created Don’t Be Evil. I was like, I, I’m sorry for dogging on you. You, you suck, but you are better than, than our current crop of tech CEOs in re. [00:17:35] Brett: In retrospect. [00:17:36] Jeffrey: You got me thinking on the don’t be evil front. Like it’s not too easy to create a shared definition of what evil meant at the time. Um, but certainly you can, you know, sketch one together and I, I wonder how different our definition of evil used in the sentence Don’t be evil is, has changed between that time and now. [00:17:57] Christina: Oh, that’s a great point. You know what? I bet, I bet in [00:18:00] some ways it’s gotten like things that we would not have considered evil. We do. And I bet in, in some ways that it, it, it’s reversed, right? Because Google, like a lot of those tech companies, and I’m sorry we’re going on a tangent, but like, I’m not talking like the libertarian like party like of Silicon Valley companies that were much more like small l libertarian. [00:18:17] Christina: Like I’m not talking about like, you know, the, the, the people who, who claim those ideals. I’m not talking about like Connor from succession. I’m just talking about people who created the internet archive and the, you know, um, electronic frontal foundation and other kind of, I guess in some ways would kind of like be like liberal, like anarchists, right? [00:18:35] Christina: Like they had like very specific ideas around freedom of speech and around accessibility of things and, and around like stopping, you know, government, um, inter intervention and things. And I think in generally in trying to kind of do the right thing as they define it, right? We feel it this way and we can do it. [00:18:52] Christina: And that’s just not really the ethos. Anymore. Like that was not, I’m not saying that it was, it was absent profit motive, cuz it [00:19:00] absolutely wasn’t. But it wasn’t as tied into kind of the, the, the corporate greed cycle that we’ve had now. And, and so it’s, it, it, I I think in some ways things that they would’ve called evil, um, we now would maybe not feel as strongly about. [00:19:15] Christina: Um, but in some things that they, they would be like, oh, this is fine. We’d be like, oh no, that is straight up evil. [00:19:19] Jeffrey: Google itself. [00:19:20] Christina: That, that’s an interesting topic. I wish somebody would write that. Yeah, well, exactly, [00:19:26] Jeffrey: Yeah. Well also it was, I remember when I first read that, I mean in, in the actual days, uh, days of your, um, I remember thinking, oh, that’s cute. This, it seemed like kind of a cute statement. You know what I mean? Um, it didn’t seem like something that went through like, uh, several large committees cause they didn’t exist at that time. [00:19:44] Christina: exactly. I was gonna say, they, they had so few people. It was, it was genuinely a startup. Right. And um, [00:19:50] Jeffrey: I feel like there should be a Minister of Prophecy at all of these, um, tech companies so that when you’re creating these, these, uh, slogans or promises, someone can be like, um, just a second. We’re [00:20:00] gonna have to speak to the Minister of Prophecy. [00:20:02] Brett: Notably, notably, no one since them has had a similar tagline. [00:20:08] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I mean, the closest was, and it was obviously, um, different. It, it didn’t have like the moral, well, eh, a little bit, but like Facebook’s was like, move fast and break things right. And, and, and then they had to kind of drop that. But like that they are still dogged by that to this day. I think the two of them, I think that that was the lesson. [00:20:26] Christina: Like, I don’t even know if you need a Minister of prophecies now. I think you just look at history and you go, everyone is going to use this slogan that you think is great and applies to your, you know, small, you know, few thousand, few hundred person company. It is going to define who you are when you become a trillion dollar company. [00:20:46] Christina: Uh, and, and people are still going to like, hold it against you or, or a 500, you know, billion dollar company. If your Facebook, like, we’re, they’re gonna, you know, hold it against you in perpetuity forever. This will define you forever. [00:20:58] Brett: I feel like the heat [00:21:00] death of the metaverse is a topic for a whole other show. [00:21:04] Christina: Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. That is whole other show. Imagine if you named your company after the metaverse. [00:21:10] Jeffrey: They meant metadata. [00:21:12] Christina: Hey, good segue. [00:21:13] Jeffrey: Oh yeah, [00:21:14] Jeffrey: that’s true. [00:21:14] Brett: let’s, let’s opt not to talk about Facebook or Elon Musk. Let’s talk about Jeff’s foray into ai. [00:21:23] mundaneGPT [00:21:23] Jeffrey: Now there are two levels to that. One is sort of working chat g p t into my normal, mundane, everyday life, and the other is far more exciting work with the a p I and deeper stranger [00:21:34] Jeffrey: work. [00:21:35] Brett: see what we have time for. [00:21:36] Jeffrey: My idea is that we talk about the sort of, uh, working something like chat g p t into your everyday life and we save this big philosophical AI self-portrait conversation for the next [00:21:48] Brett: Yeah, that works. [00:21:49] Christina: Yeah. [00:21:49] Jeffrey: So I, I distinguish now because I do use chat g p t kind of all the time. I, I pay now so that I can use, so I can add, ask 25 things [00:22:00] of G P T four in every three hours. Um, goes fast. Uh, but anyway, um, so there’s that. And then there’s also sort of forays, thank you, Brett, into using the api, which is more of the topic for next week, but is has become much more interesting and exciting to me. [00:22:19] Jeffrey: And it’s so easy to do. They have such great cookbooks, just to say. OpenAI has great cookbooks for doing all the various things, um, with their api. So anyway, I, um, I think we talked about this before and what, what I was doing at the time was I was experimenting with writing, um, scripts using Chap G p t, [00:22:39] Brett: Scripts meaning automation. [00:22:41] Jeffrey: writing a Python script to parse text and make basic changes. [00:22:45] Jeffrey: And. [00:22:45] Brett: so not like a movie script, which would make you a, a picket line breaker. [00:22:51] Jeffrey: Early on. Yeah, that’s right. Early on, a friend of mine sent me something cause I had said something absurd to him in a text and he, using chat g p t, he turned it into a [00:23:00] Seinfeld kind of vignette where everyone gets a line. Um, anyway, so yeah, no, like writing a Python script to parse text or just whatever I was writing. [00:23:08] Jeffrey: Uh, working with APIs, I would just say, you know, here’s the, you know, I use whatever service I’m using. Like, how would I do this in the da da da api? And it would tell me, and as long as the API hadn’t changed since whatever the date is, that is the cutoff for chat G P T or G p t, um, it would do a good job. [00:23:25] Jeffrey: And I, and it, it kind of helped me with computational thinking because I would, you know, ask it a question. It would write an initial script. We would do a lot of stuff to fix it. But then I’d start over and I’d ask the question informed by. What I had learned in the previous chat. So I was like, the learning ai, right? [00:23:44] Jeffrey: Um, and it would write, you know, it would write, uh, scripts. You put ’em in, you get errors, you put it, you know, give them the error and it’s deciphering errors, which is amazing. So anyway, so that’s that part. But I’ve also just been testing out kind of the various other [00:24:00] exercises of my, my, uh, profession. So I write a lot of records requests, and they’re usually state level records requests, which means that, you know, whatever state you’re requesting in, let’s say you’re requesting emails from the state probation, uh, department or something, right? [00:24:16] Jeffrey: You have to know and cite. Nebraska’s, uh, public records law, which will tell you in which you then assert, you know, here’s how long people have to respond to you. You know, they have to respond to you by this amount of time. They can’t charge you in on this unless this right? And so I’ve got it writing public records requests for me, which was previously something I did using text expander. [00:24:39] Jeffrey: So I just have all that kind of text framing. But what I’ve found is that when I ask chat g p t to write a record request based on where I’m going to send it, it writes a more interesting and more legally thorough. Records request, then I would’ve otherwise written. So that stuff’s been [00:25:00] interesting. And then, um, I’ve just been using it. [00:25:02] Jeffrey: So, uh, on our kind of board of directors at the organization I’m part of. Every time we have a meeting and we have meeting notes, I run it into chat, G p t and ask for a summary as for a couple different kinds of summaries, a bulleted summary, a summary of the most important actions or topics, just to see how it works. [00:25:20] Jeffrey: And it generally works quite well. And then I’ve also been feeding it my raw notes from phone calls or other kinds of meetings or interviews. And my raw notes, meaning like my trashy raw notes, like incomplete sentences, spelling errors, no real clear sense of when I’ve gone from one subject to another. [00:25:39] Jeffrey: And it does a shockingly. Good job of inferring what is absent. Um, and, and kind of summarizing based on that. And then the, the other way I’m, I’m using it right now, and again, none of these, I’m never leaning on it as the main thing. Right? Everything has. My kind of review, careful [00:26:00] review, test it again, review whatever. [00:26:03] Jeffrey: But, uh, here’s what is a concern that’s come up for me. Um, so if I am creating documents that will ultimately be historical documents for my organization, or if I’m doing research on, like, I have all this research on a ancestor of mine fought in World War I, and I have this like bulleted information, and I asked chat, g p t, like summarize this. [00:26:25] Jeffrey: And then I said, now give me like the context, um, for this person’s unit. Now tell me what changed in the Midwest between 1917 and 1918, you know, when he left and came back. And, um, and I’m adding that into the document. And what I fear is that. The fact that this was generated by ai, which I’m noting and the fact that I am well aware that I can’t just depend on this might get lost down the road in, in the years that come, someone looks at this in 50 years and they’ll be like, oh, here’s interesting research on how the Midwest changed [00:27:00] in this period. [00:27:00] Jeffrey: But in fact, it was generated by AI and I didn’t fact check it. I just wanted to do it to see what it would do. And like that actually brings up a big question I have for both of you. Like imagine that. Problem. Imagine it in many domains. Um, one example actually could be if I’m having summaries of meeting notes from chat G p t and it actually isn’t quite perfect, but I either don’t notice cuz I’m moving too fast or, um, or it just gets past me, right? [00:27:29] Jeffrey: That becomes the record, right? Like, because the record, so if there’s one sentence off, it could one day be much more meaningful than that sentence is now. Right? It might mean I might blow by cause I’m like, well it doesn’t matter that it got that wrong. The rest of this stuff is great, right? But then I also think more in the case of being a researcher, being a reporter or whatever else, like if I imagine, you know, my story, uh, folders being in a historical society someday because I donate them just cause I feel like why not have all these Minnesota stories here? [00:27:57] Jeffrey: How do we, how do we, what do we [00:28:00] do short of, I mean, beyond metadata, I guess to say, hey, point at it and be like, Hey, hey, hey. [00:28:08] Christina: So, so that’s interesting. So it’s actually this great topic. I actually had a conversation, um, yesterday. With, um, a designer at Microsoft. Um, so Microsoft Build is next week, and I’m, I’m co-hosting and I was doing some pre-interviews, um, before the show. And this is actually gonna be a session, um, at, at Microsoft Build. [00:28:25] Christina: Um, that was just recently out of the, to the schedule. And then Curtis and I are going to be talking, um, afterwards or, or before, I’m not really sure on the timing, but he, he’s a designer who’s been working on, um, basically thinking about, okay, what is the design language and what are the things that we need to build into these large language models and these interfaces, a, to help people use them? [00:28:46] Christina: And then b, exactly what you were talking about to like, let people know about sometimes these things hallucinate sometimes the things that these things output are incorrect. Like what, what do we put into place there so that people don’t become overly reliant? [00:29:00] On these results. Exactly. To your point. And so I do feel like metadata is definitely part of it. [00:29:05] Christina: Right. I think that’s a big and important part of it. And, and hopefully metadata can persist across file formats and generations and technologies and whatnot because, uh, that, that’s always a concern, you know, that that stuff can get stripped or, or lost or whatnot, and then you lose all context. Um, but I think there’s another part of it too, which is, and I hadn’t, and I have to admit, I hadn’t, I, I think I’d read the blog post that his team put out, um, uh, like a month or two ago about how they were approaching designing, um, for, for lawyers language models. [00:29:34] Christina: But I, I, I hadn’t really, um, it hadn’t really fortified in my mind the same way, which was, okay, what are the design decisions that we need to do to let people know what’s up and what the truth is? And I feel like, you know, Even like in the notes, like in addition to having metadata, like it might need to be something where something is just called out, right? [00:29:55] Christina: Like, might have to be that explicit being like, this is from, this was [00:30:00] generated from AI and has not been fact-checked. Like, but we ha But I think we have to think about everybody who’s designing these systems, how are you informing people and, and ensuring that the correct context is there because it’s so close, so often enough that it is incredibly easy to just become reliant on the results. [00:30:19] Christina: And that’s the same thing that happened with Wikipedia in the early days, right? Like early Wikipedia. Early Wikipedia was garbage. It’s a lot better now than it was, but it was garbage. But we had access now to more information than we’d ever had access to at any previous time. So it was really easy for people to overly rely on it. [00:30:36] Christina: And then I think people went and over-indexed the other way, which was like, you can never cite Wikipedia as a source. And I’m like, okay, maybe not. But you could take some of the sources that they cite, right? Um, and, and I think that, I think that, so I think that might be part of it too, which is I think that we have to do a good job of tagging things. [00:30:53] Christina: I think we have to do a good job of in the products themselves, making clear what’s happening. And then I think there’s another [00:31:00] UI aspect where I think maybe some of these places, when they’re coming up with these claims, they have to add in footnotes as part of the output, [00:31:08] Jeffrey: kind of if you, uh, if you paste a highlight from like Apple Books, you get this long Yeah. Footnote. Mm-hmm. Man, that makes me think of a couple things. One is the importance of text files becomes, uh, relevant all over again because any kind of, I would imagine people watermarking like a Word doc or something like that, all that stuff can be stripped. [00:31:32] Jeffrey: And of course anything can be removed from a text doc, but at least if it’s all kept in good faith, you can find a way to maybe kind of bracket the, the kind of AI stuff. And like you said, to come up with like a standard footnote. Maybe you’re, you’re, you’re including what, you know, what version of the, of the model you’re using and how are you setting up that environment? [00:31:57] Jeffrey: What instructions are you kind of coding in? [00:32:00] That makes me wonder if the best way at the moment to do this, if you can do it faithfully, is to do this work in a Git repo and maybe there’s, there’s a push that’s just, I added the AI [00:32:14] Christina: So you had that [00:32:15] Jeffrey: so that you can click [00:32:17] Brett: audit trail. [00:32:18] Jeffrey: and you can go to the, then you can go to the link just before it to be sure you’re looking at only, you know, I mean, you have to really trust the person who did that, but [00:32:27] Christina: Yeah. [00:32:28] Brett: sure. But the audit trail makes a lot of sense. Like [00:32:32] Christina: I agree. [00:32:32] Brett: we can’t expect. All of the uses of generative AI to be called out. Um, like the web is already flooded with, with generative ai, but for like in a research scenario, having a pull request and a merge history that shows like, this is where it happened and you can like get blame whoever was [00:33:00] responsible for incorporating AI into [00:33:03] Jeffrey: Get, get blame. Should be a command. Get blame. [00:33:05] Brett: it is, [00:33:06] Jeffrey: it is. [00:33:07] Jeffrey: Oh, I didn’t know. Whoa. Is that, is that a deep cut or [00:33:11] Christina: one of, it’s one of the best [00:33:12] Jeffrey: heard of it. [00:33:13] Brett: I mean, it’s, it, it’s, uh, it’s more common than get bisect, which I feel deserves a lot more attention than it gets, but, [00:33:21] Christina: Bisect is great. Yeah. Get but, but, but get blamed that the hub Burnett, I think, [00:33:25] Jeffrey: Is this stuff that, is this stuff that comes up in collaboration and rather than if you were doing a solo repo or Tell me about get [00:33:33] Jeffrey: blame. [00:33:33] Brett: Oh, for sure, for sure. Yeah. Get Blame is all about like figuring out whose commit broke what. [00:33:40] Christina: who did [00:33:40] Christina: what. [00:33:41] Brett: it’s a way to, it’s a way to figure out like where a bug was introduced and absolutely blame the blame, the responsible party. [00:33:50] Jeffrey: Wow. That’s awesome. [00:33:52] Brett: Yeah. So like we, we, oh my God, my cat just walked away with [00:34:00] a long chain in her mouth. [00:34:02] Brett: Um, so, uh, like I, I moved our publishing workflow at Oracle to be all GitHub based. Uh, because we could do everything through poll request, we could comment line by line, and we could go back through any article and see who added what, who edited what. And it was a way better process than like passing around goo uh, word documents with change [00:34:31] Christina: Absolutely. [00:34:32] Brett: um, like it was all in one place, one canonical document with a full change history, and you could see exactly who did what and, and I feel like that’s perfect. [00:34:44] Brett: That’s a perfect way to introduce AI into any kind of textual. Conversation. [00:34:51] Christina: No, I totally agree. And I would go one step further and I would be curious on your take on this, Brett, cause I know you’ve played around with it a little bit, but I feel like this would also be a really useful place for using things like [00:35:00] Jupyter Notebooks. Um, because, because that would be like a great way, I think, to organize things. [00:35:05] Christina: And, um, you could also have code blocks if there, if, if those things are there, and then you get the added benefit of having the tracking aspect too. But no, I fully agree with you, you, Brett. Um, I think I’ve talked about this on this show before, but I’ve, I’ve long had this dream, and I still think this is a great idea, where I’m like, okay, but what if you had like GitHub for office files? [00:35:25] Christina: Like, and people are like, oh, that’s track changes. And I’m like, and I’m like, no, it’s not, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about, I wanna see every line of, every single change, every single commit, everything that happened in the structure of a document, which you technically could do with, with the way that the, the, the XML in, in those, in those structures work. [00:35:42] Christina: And I, I don’t know. Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Like I actually think that that would be a freaking killer product that if, if I, if I were, if I had enough money and enough, um, ability to focus my attention, I would like want to start something and like hire people to build. Cause I do [00:36:00] think that that could be like, if you were going to create like the next killer like collaboration platform, like that would actually be what it would be. [00:36:06] Christina: Is, is, is that it? Cuz it’s not the sharing aspect. It’s not the both people typing at the same time. That’s great. But, but the real thing is that granular focus on who did what and be because cuz that’s the thing that I think that people don’t understand the power about get is, is just how useful it can be when multiple people are, are working on something that you literally have this fantastic view of, of who did what. [00:36:28] Christina: And you can in, in many cases, you know, pick and choose what, what things you want to, to take and what things you don’t. [00:36:34] Jeffrey: Yeah, that’s the key thing cuz like Google Docs does an interesting, I think a pretty good job of this kind of versioning, but it’s not, it’s not great at all and it’s really hard to pick out. The kind of, you know, if you really want to, like, if you’re looking at a get history, you can just, it’s so easy to just be like that [00:36:49] Brett: Yeah. It’s all about history. Like Google, [00:36:52] Jeffrey: diffs, right? Like it’s about histories and seeing the diffs, right? Like that’s, [00:36:56] Christina: Yeah, exactly. Well, that’s what’s so funny. People, people will tell me whenever I, I [00:37:00] comment on this on Twitter cause I do this every six months or so, and I’ve been doing this for years, and people are like, oh, well just do this, just do that. I’m like, that is not what I’m talking about. That is not version history. [00:37:08] Christina: If, if, if tell, tell me you’ve never used version control and really seen what it can do without telling me you’ve never used version control. Right. Because, and, and, and, and that’s not me like even trying to like flex. I’m just saying like, you don’t know until, you know, and I, I, that was one of those revelations for me. [00:37:24] Christina: I was like, I don’t know until, you know, and to your point, Brett, like you’ve essentially built a c m s. You know, using, you know, GitHub as, as your method. Um, I met a guy at GIT Merge last year, um, that the annual kind of like conference for the GI contributors who talked to, like, that is actually what they’re trying to do. [00:37:40] Christina: They’re trying to build a C M S on top of Git, but, you know, kind of abstract the GI part for, for norm’s. But, but that’s what they’re doing. Which I, I was like, he and I had a great conversation. I was like, I fucking love what you’re doing. That’s my dream. [00:37:53] Brett: there was a great Mac app called Draft Control, um, that has since [00:37:59] Christina: You told me about [00:38:00] this. It’s going [00:38:00] Brett: but it used GIT bundles, um, to, to create a change history for any document you were working on. And it would track foreground documents, so whether it was Word or a text editor or you know, text edit, like whatever you were working on, R T F files, docx files, text files, and it would just create, get bundles every time it noticed a change and you could see diffs for the entire history of a document. [00:38:33] Jeffrey: Wow. [00:38:33] Brett: And it was, it was pretty brilliant. And, and it just kind of died at some [00:38:39] Jeffrey: What was it called? [00:38:40] Brett: Draft control. [00:38:42] Christina: I remember this. Now remember you telling me about this and in this Yeah. That was a really, really cool, like genuinely a really great app. I That sucks. I bet it die because the, the developer just couldn’t make enough money off of it. Um, I’m looking it up right now. It looks like it [00:39:00] was in the Mac app store, so that didn’t help. [00:39:01] Christina: And it was only 10 bucks. [00:39:03] Brett: Yeah. [00:39:04] Christina: Um, yeah, that’s, that’s not gonna unfortunately sustain that sort of development. [00:39:09] Brett: To this conversation. I just want to add that while I don’t use, like I have GitHub co-pilot, I have code, um, and I have, there’s a new extension for integrating both of those into Xcode, which is, which is very good, but. Like, I don’t use it for a lot of code generation, but I have found it amazing for documentation. [00:39:34] Brett: Like I can just select a function, I can say document this function and it will add, you know, code appropriate comments before the function explaining literally everything. The function does way more detail than I would ever bother to go into myself and like talk about all the parameters, all the outputs, and explain exactly what the function does. [00:39:57] Brett: And I can do that with a click [00:40:00] and that’s, that’s awesome to me. I love it for that. I did, I, I post dad jokes to, um, to Macedon. I, oh, my social media. Let’s, let’s be honest, [00:40:13] Christina: Yeah. Your dad, I was gonna say you [00:40:14] Christina: do. [00:40:15] Brett: I did the, I, I posted this dad joke that was Panda. Walks up to a bar and says, Hey, can I get a rum and dot, dot dot. [00:40:23] Brett: Coke and the bartender says, of course, but what’s with the big pause? And the panda looks ashamed and says, I was born with them, but they really blew up in my teens. And the bartender says, I’m sorry, that was really rude to me to point it out. And the panda says, that’s okay, man. They’re hard not to notice. [00:40:40] Brett: They hit it off and after last call, they had to hit his place. That was the post. And then someone was like, I couldn’t stand that. It ended there. And I was wondering about the fate of the two G P T comes to the rescue and spoiler alert, I was relieved to hear that they pivoted to online orders and workshops creating bamboo infused [00:41:00] drinks during the pandemic. [00:41:01] Brett: Um, that’s from a Andrea Adrian Nik, but. Like chat g p t as a responder, like I can write a cur, a Kurt terse email in response to something and then I can just real quick run it through [00:41:18] Jeffrey: Yeah. [00:41:18] Brett: p t and say, make this friendly, [00:41:21] Jeffrey: Uh, [00:41:21] Brett: make, make this response friendly, and it will nail it almost every time. [00:41:26] Jeffrey: That’s a good everyday mundane use. I realized that I got a so off topic of like, what, how else do you use it? [00:41:33] Brett: Yeah, [00:41:33] Christina: No, no, I think that’s a great one. What I’m gonna say, um, uh, the waiting list is we’re letting people off the waiting list all the time, but, uh, the waiting list is still really long. But I would be curious when copilot chat comes out, um, to see what your take on that would be, because that I’ve been using. For a couple months now, and it basically puts in, um, a chat window in, in VS code. Um, this is only in VS code right now. Um, because we have the, the Neo Vim [00:42:00] extension, that’s how people have been able to create extensions for things like Xcode and, and other stuff. And, and we’re, we’re obviously hoping to be able to bring some of these other, um, experiences to other things, but it’s, it’s difficult. [00:42:11] Christina: But, uh, the co-pilot chat, basically you can like ask a question. It’s got kind of its own sidebar, kind of get a list of topics, um, where you can explain something. You can say, fix something. Hey, I’m having a problem with this line. Can you fix the bug online? Whatever. And you can interact separately from where your code is, but you can then move stuff back and forth. [00:42:31] Christina: So if I said, you know, write me a, um, you know, write me a code to do this, it’ll create it and then I can put it in my, my document and then I could say, okay, convert it to this. That’s one of my favorite use cases, uh, right now is, is like having it like convert one block of code that’s in one sinex into another. [00:42:48] Brett: yeah. Well, and check G P T can analyze error logs in context and tell you how to fix errors, and that’s outstanding. [00:42:57] Christina: Well, that’s the whole thing, right? I think that’s, that’s what [00:43:00] what, uh, people sometimes miss about when they, when they hear about like these, like things like chat, g b t and, and co-pilot, which uses the same technology and, and some of these other services, is that the ones that are really good are the ones that know the context of what you’re talking about, where you can ask those follow on questions and that’s what makes it different than just auto complete. [00:43:17] Christina: It is fancy, auto complete, but it’s auto complete that has like a history log and, and that understands, and, and even like in the case of like copilot, like if it sees all the files in your project, it can analyze all of those things. So it’s not just looking about like the document you’re in right now and, and that that’s, I don’t know, that’s the stuff that to me just like makes me super happy. [00:43:39] Jeffrey: me, you made me realize, as you said that, that I now go to chat g p t with errors to interpret them before I go to Stack overflow. [00:43:46] Brett: Yeah. [00:43:47] Christina: Yep. [00:43:47] Jeffrey: everybody. I mean, recognizing that it might be [00:43:50] Jeffrey: wrong. [00:43:50] Brett: and chat. G P T four with web browsing is amazing for replacing Stack Overflow. But before we get to gratitude, [00:43:59] Podcast Swap: Mac Break Weekly [00:43:59] Brett: I [00:44:00] want to tell our listeners about a couple of podcasts. First, we wanna talk about Mac Break Weekly for IMAX iPhones, iPads, apple watches, apple tv, uh, and the ins and outs of Apple, shaking up things in tech. [00:44:15] Brett: The Mac Break Weekly podcast covers it. Joanne Lela Port with Jason Snell, Andy ico, and Alex Lindsay on the Mac Break Weekly podcast. They dive into new products, future innovations and everything Apple related. I think you’ve been on the show, right, Christina? [00:44:32] Christina: Oh yeah. I’ve been on, I think I was actually, I think I was actually on the very first [00:44:36] Christina: episode. [00:44:37] Brett: regular contributor, [00:44:38] Christina: Yeah. Is, and, and, and, oh, look, you’re literally talking about like four of like the best like Mac people ever, you know, Andy, Leo, Jason, Alex. Like, they’ve been around forever and they know everything and they all have really good perspectives of different things. [00:44:51] Christina: Like, like Alex, especially during the pandemic stuff, like his experience with doing video production and, and conferencing stuff. Um, especially on your Mac, [00:45:00] really good info. And, uh, you know, Jason, Leo, and, and Andy of like, they’re, they’re heroes. [00:45:06] Brett: is the only one I’m not familiar with, but Andy, Jason, and Leo, I have followed since the early two thousands. So, uh, get it, get a new episode of Mac Break Weekly every Tuesday by subscribing on Apple Podcast, Spotify pockets, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And we also wanna talk about the short game. [00:45:28] Brett: The Short game. The Short game. If you like video games but can’t remember the last time you hit the end credits, check out the Short Game podcast. [00:45:37] Christina: I love [00:45:37] Podcast Swap: The Short Game [00:45:37] Brett: The Short Game is a weekly podcast about games that takes just a few hours to complete from the latest narrative indies to brief, but brilliant classics. [00:45:47] Brett: Every episode starts spoiler free, so you can listen without fear. And with a nine year back catalog, they’ve probably covered your favorites like Under Tail, Hades, Celeste, and [00:46:00] Vampire Survivors, they’re only rule. The Game must be short. The Short Game is hosted by Reagan, Kelly, Shane, Kelly, and Laura Nash. [00:46:10] Brett: And Nate Heininger for time. Poor 30 somethings who prove you can be a parent, a professional, a full-fledged adult, and still love games. You can find them by searching for the short game on any podcast platform or head to short game.fm for all the links and buttons, the short game podcast games that respect your time. [00:46:34] Brett: That’s short Game fm [00:46:38] Christina: Nice. So I, I’m assuming they’re not gonna be talking about the tears of the kingdom. [00:46:43] Brett: I, but everyone else is, so it’s [00:46:46] Jeffrey: I gotta get started. It’s happening in this house. I gotta get started before I [00:46:49] Christina: I was gonna say, are your boys playing it? Cuz I, I I have to, I have to imagine like your, your, your, your sons are all about it. [00:46:55] Jeffrey: Yeah, they’re both playing and loving it and I, I played through, uh, breath of the Wild and [00:47:00] so I really wanna [00:47:00] Christina: Yeah. So fun. [00:47:02] Jeffrey: now. [00:47:03] Brett: All right. Crap, dude. Can I kick it off? Mine will be [00:47:07] Christina: Please do, do it. [00:47:09] Brett: So there’s this service called Ground News. That’s the web address ground news that offers current headlines from, it’s like all sides if you’ve ever seen that. But it offers it from all, all points on the political spectrum and ranks each story based on how many right wing or left wing or centrist, uh, organizations reported on that headline and then ranks each one based on its factuality and says, you know, generally fable or questionable and gives you a way to take the current news stories, which are probably anybody is getting in their bubble. [00:47:52] Brett: So they’re getting their bubble’s idea of this story, and it gives you a chance to kind of break out of your bubble and [00:48:00] see what other sides are saying. I have, I have gotten my my mother into using this. And we have found common ground on articles that normally she would’ve come to me infuriated about. [00:48:13] Brett: Uh, but she’s able to see, oh, there are multiple sides to this problem. And, and you’re able to see like maybe this news article that got you incensed, maybe it’s questionably accurate and be able to see, okay, sure. Uh, my left wing news sources are reporting this in a, in, in one way. In my right wing sources are reporting in another. [00:48:37] Brett: So just for an unbiased take on news, uh, ground news is my pick of the week. [00:48:44] Christina: Uh, very nice. Very nice. I like that a lot. And, and I like they have a browser extension as well. Um, which is, which is rad. I, I’m going next because, um, uh, Jeff’s section is, is hell along, but hella awesome. [00:48:56] Jeffrey: won’t be, I, I have a short version of my section. [00:48:59] Christina: Well [00:49:00] go, no, go as long as you need to. Um, uh, I was gonna pick Sky, which is like a, a wrapper for, for Blue Sky, for for Mac Os that I quite like, and I will have that in the show notes. Um, we haven’t talked about Blue Sky, but we’re gonna talk about that, um, at some point. Uh, it’s pretty awesome if, if, uh, if you’re there. [00:49:14] Christina: Um, uh, all three of us are there. I think I’m probably the most active, but it’s, it’s a fun place. Um, but so, so Sky is, is good. And I also have a GitHub repo in my stars. I have a collection of, of a blue sky goodness, similar to my Mastodon. Collection just of, of cool projects that I run across. But the thing that I’m gonna talk about, because I just saw this on Restless, that he didn’t talk about is default folder X six, because I didn’t even know, I knew that that, um, um, uh, he had been, um, working on it. [00:49:43] Christina: So I, I’m a huge fan of default Folder X. I’ve been using it for, I don’t even know how many years. It’s one of my favorite apps. It’s one of those apps that I love it so much that I do this weird thing where I usually buy it. But then I use the setup version as my installed version. And I do that because I want him [00:50:00] to get it in them, I guess the team to get like the recurring revenue of my usage from setup. [00:50:04] Christina: But I also feel like. I, I need to pay for it. You know, like, it, it’s one of those things I, I really do get that much value out of the app. I feel like I don’t pay enough for it. And so just looking at like the, the, um, like list of like new features that are coming to it, this looks like this is gonna be really, really great. [00:50:25] Christina: Um, and, uh, and then for people who aren’t familiar, default folder X basically makes it really easy for you to have default folder commands. It’s kind of like a window overlay of like the, the, the save as dialogue and, and all Mac apps. Um, you can, um, have, uh, you know, set folders for certain file types or for, for certain locations. [00:50:44] Christina: You can have favorite folders, pens, so that you can easily access them. You can also do things like, one of my favorite features is to have, um, uh, uh, hot keys to go directly to a specific folder that I wanna go to. Anytime I’m in the Finder. I know you could use like a million other apps for that, but I really like. [00:50:59] Christina: [00:51:00] Default folder X. Um, and it’s just, it’s really good. And it looks like, um, one of the, and, and you are the one who put it on here, Brett, so I’ll let you talk about it too. But it looks like one of the big things, a uh, finally you can sync your, your settings between two max. And so I’m not gonna have to like copy my p list files anymore, which is what I’ve been doing over the years. [00:51:20] Christina: That’s really cool. But b, it looks like it’s got kind of like a, um, a launch bar, uh, slash alfred slash like a raycast quick search, which any app that wants to adopt that paradigm. I’m, I’m a big fan of, and, and I’m one of those people who like, I don’t think I can have too many, like, as long as I, you know, know what my, my shortcuts are for it. [00:51:38] Christina: Um, I’m a big fan, so, [00:51:40] Brett: Yeah, everyone should just adopt command shift P. But yeah, the quick search is cool and they just added spotlight, like a fallback. If you use the quick search to go through like all your recent files and favorite files and you don’t find what you’re looking for, it can fall back to a spotlight search. [00:51:58] Brett: So it’s becomes [00:52:00] kind of a universal quick search for files and folders. I would say the one other thing that I love default folder X for is just its basic UI tweaks that it does, like expanding fields, making, making certain inputs bigger, uh, allowing, uh, file tagging on any save dialogue. Like just little, little tricks that it pulls on the ui, uh, that when it’s not present, it’s immediately noticeable to me. [00:52:32] Christina: I was gonna say, it’s one of those rare, rare, like, um, mac like, um, modifications that I actually, uh, really prefer the modifications than what like the default Apple thing is, which is almost never the case to the point that, yeah, to your point, it is literally one of the first apps I ever install on a New Mac because I can’t deal with the, with the normal save dialogue and stuff without it. [00:52:55] Christina: Like, I genuinely can’t. It’s one of those things I’m like, this is, this is not gonna work for me. [00:53:00] Like, I remember that with, with one like beta, like Mac os version. A few years ago there was a problem with, with default folder X and, and it like completely like ruined. The beta for me because I was just like, I can’t, I can’t not have, you know, this, this overlay and have like these expanded fields to your point and, and this other stuff. [00:53:18] Christina: Like, I’m like, this is, this is not good. [00:53:19] Brett: When you, when you pull down the dropdown to like go to parent folders, the, the one UI tweak that I love the most, uh, that default folder X adds is every folder in that list has a, a right arrow and you can go into the subfolders of any of those folders and you can just like navigate to any directory off the, off any point in the parent tree of the current folder. [00:53:46] Brett: And I find that ridiculously useful. [00:53:50] Jeffrey: Awesome. [00:53:51] Christina: Yeah. Especially cuz we all have this situation where you need to put it in a specific file and a specific thing. Because many times like to to to your, like as we were talking about [00:54:00] before with our virgin control and other stuff, like we’re, we’re storing things in different places. We might be having them on various cloud drives or other things. [00:54:06] Christina: And like where Macel West stores, that is often not what you would think and you have to go into a folder of a folder of a folder, you know? So yeah, I totally agree with that. [00:54:16] Brett: All right. Jeff, what you [00:54:17] Jeffrey: Okay, so I, I’m gonna, it’s not what I have in the show notes, everybody, just so you know. Um, but it’s the, it’s, it’s what caused it. Um, okay, so I am, mine is actually this Firefox extension called Foxy tab. And I, I, I, I’m just gonna blow your minds with this one, but the reason I came upon it was I was just looking for a way to merge all of my, um, Firefox windows, uh, when I’m ready to clean up my desktop, and I use an extension for that and, uh, or package for that. [00:54:45] Jeffrey: And sublime text. A lot of lot of apps have it built in Chrome and Safari, have it built in. I’m super glad Firefox didn’t, because once I. Got to Foxy tab, I realized it does all these things I didn’t even think to dream. Um, and so I’m just gonna run [00:55:00] through, uh, some of the like amazing functionalities. [00:55:03] Jeffrey: Okay. So I’m literally, I’ve pulled up the, you know, foxy tab, like dropdown menu to do work on a tab, and it starts with, it could save the tab as P D F, which is awesome. Um, there’s a screenshot option. That’s great. Um, then you can actually, like, there’s a copy option. You can copy the tab title, the tab ip, the tab url, uh, you know, like all of these different, uh, bits of the tab, which is totally awesome. [00:55:29] Jeffrey: And then there’s like a bookmarking thing. Uh, there’s a thing where you can, if you’ve got a million tabs up and you can close just the ones that are already bookmarked, um, which to me is just genius. [00:55:40] Christina: That’s awesome. [00:55:41] Jeffrey: Yeah, cuz between duplicate tabs, which you can also deal with between duplicate tabs and tabs that are bookmarked, like that’s probably 50, 60% of what’s open half the time. [00:55:50] Jeffrey: Um, and then there’s like this whole bit where you can sort your tabs by U R l ascending or descending by title, by last, accessed by [00:56:00] domain, um, which is totally awesome. [00:56:03] Brett: It has a, it has like a close all to the left or [00:56:06] Jeffrey: Yes, exactly. Yep, it does. And then this is huge for me. Pin all pin to the left, pin to the right, and then unpin all unpinned to the left, unpinned to the right. Like I get my pins become just this really, like, really weak way of saving something until later. Um, and so being able to do that is huge. Uh, and then of course the reason I came merge all windows. [00:56:31] Jeffrey: It’s just like an awesome, awesome, awesome, um, extension. So I really like, again, I, I knew these were problems that I needed solved, but I didn’t think to look for the solution [00:56:41] Christina: No, I love it. And, and, sorry, sorry, what’s the, what’s the extension called [00:56:44] Jeffrey: Foxy tab. [00:56:45] Christina: Foxy tab. Okay. That’s, I, I was looking Tabby for some reason, Foxy tab. I wish, now I’m like, jealous that this doesn’t exist for other browsers. Like, this is almost enough of a thing to make me wanna use Firefox [00:56:56] Jeffrey: yeah, [00:56:58] Brett: Does it not exist for, [00:57:00] I suppose it’s Fox? It’s [00:57:01] Jeffrey: yeah. It’s got Fox in it. [00:57:03] Brett: I would recommend, um, I don’t know if you’ve ever looked at it, but I’ve talked about it on the podcast before. War koa. [00:57:10] Christina: Yeah, I have. [00:57:11] Brett: Um, I use War KOA on Firefox and Chrome, and it is just spectacular for managing, uh, tabs in context. So I like open up my general context or I open up my, uh, overtired context and it loads all the tabs that are related to that thing. [00:57:32] Brett: And then when I’m done with that thing, when our podcast is over, I just close the overtired, the context, all those tabs close. But next time we start podcasting, I just click it [00:57:43] Christina: You do it again Yep. Yeah, I use my, my, um, I’ve looked at work before. Um, I’m not opposed to paying. I just don’t know if I would use it enough to pay $7 a month is my thing. [00:57:54] Brett: pay it. I [00:57:55] Christina: Well, no, totally. Which I, which, [00:57:56] Brett: Yeah, [00:57:57] Christina: no, which I, which I totally understand. I’m just saying, I [00:58:00] don’t know. Based on like knowing my own like patterns of usage, like I would have to really get myself in like the zone of being like, this is my primary use case for something and then I think it would totally be worth it. [00:58:11] Christina: What I do that is similar is I’ve been using, um, ar, the ARC browser a lot. [00:58:16] Jeffrey: Yeah. [00:58:16] Brett: Sure. [00:58:17] Christina: And, and that I have set up in a very similar way where I have like certain, you know, tabs for, uh, different personas and different things and different things tagged and, and stuff to go there. But for me, that’s still different than like what, um, Foxy Tab is doing because there are times when I’m not in those contacts and I just wind up having a shitload of tabs where I start a research thing and then I’m like trying to use one tab and organize them all. [00:58:40] Christina: And like using my, my Apple Script things where I get like a markdown, um, uh, list of, of every open tab, like, you know, across browsers. So I have like, um, I have like a, like a Semicolon Links I think is for, uh, for Chrome’s. eLink is Edge, Flinks is Firefox. Slinks is [00:59:00] Safari. And then, um, and I, a links I think is, is Arc. [00:59:03] Christina: So I’ve got like all those things, you know, done. But, but then I, the merge windows stuff, that is the thing, like I, I struggle with all the time where I’m always trying to look up like, what, what is the shortcut? Like what is like the, the extension? Like what is the, the key command to merge windows or to transfer things from one to the other? [00:59:20] Christina: Because sometimes I have like these two giant monitors and I’ll have like, I don’t know, a hundred tabs open across things. I’m like, okay, but, but I need to put them all here. Yeah. [00:59:30] Jeffrey: then being able to prune, cuz like my old, my old like, you know, press to launch was if I needed to close my browser, I just did save all these bookmarks in a folder called inbox. Right. Like, uh, and that’s so imperfect. Um, I what [00:59:46] Jeffrey: I [00:59:46] Brett: ever, did you ever [00:59:47] Jeffrey: No, but you never go back to them. Right? That’s the point. And so what this allows me to do is prune, right? [00:59:51] Jeffrey: And I, that’s what I usually need to do. And like Brett, to the point of, I dunno if I’m saying it [00:59:57] Jeffrey: right, but, um, for me, [01:00:00] like why this is. Is better for me than what Kona is, is that it is a big red button and I need big red buttons. And, and like an example of that too is like I, I use moo, you know, the window management thing for all kinds of stuff, but the most important thing is when I get started for the day, I lay my windows out how I need ’em for whatever I’m doing in the beginning of the day, I take a quick snapshot that is assigned to a keyboard shortcut that I always use the same one, so that throughout the day when things get messy and I need to just reset to the, to this layout, I don’t have a layout that I use every time. [01:00:33] Jeffrey: I just have this like snapshot for what, how I wanted it to be in the morning. Um, it’s another big red button, right? Like I, I would love, I’ve used work, I would love to be a good user of work, but I’m, I find that my disposition is, is, is really like geared towards red buttons. Like slam it with my hand, you know? [01:00:55] Jeffrey: Anyway. Good stuff, [01:00:57] Brett: right. Should we call it [01:00:59] Jeffrey: let’s call it. [01:00:59] Christina: [01:01:00] Let’s call it, [01:01:01] Brett: I, uh, I have to pee so bad right [01:01:03] Jeffrey: Oh, yeah. Well, let’s definitely call it. [01:01:06] Jeffrey: All right. [01:01:06] Brett: Um, you guys get some [01:01:08] Jeffrey: I get some sleep. [01:01:09] Christina: Get some sleep. [01:01:11] Jeffrey: Don’t let the bedbugs bite. [01:01:13] Outro: The.

Christina and Brett talk Tucker Carlson, Don Lemon, Single Drunk Female, the resurgence of RSS, and their favorite apps. Sponsor Factor gives you fresh, never frozen meals, ready to eat in two minutes. Save 50% on your first box with code overtired50 at factormeals.com/overtired50. Check out the latest in iOS on the iOS Today podcast with Mikah Sargent and Rosemary Orchard. Show Links Tucker Carlson out at Fox Don Lemon out at CNN Single Drunk Female Ted Lasso Wrexham got promoted NetNewsWire Shortcat Paletro Fever Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 327 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, you’re listening to Overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here with Christina Warren. Jeff is off this week. Christina, how you doing? [00:00:13] Christina: I’m doing pretty good. I’m doing pretty good. Um, we’re probably gonna talk about it some, but, uh, I, the, the day started off, we’re recording this one on Monday, so we’re recording this a little bit differently than we normally do with some, uh, very big media news happening in the world. Like some, some seismic like earth shattering media news, which doesn’t directly affect me in any way at all. [00:00:33] Christina: Um, but it is very exciting for me as, as a media watcher. So, um, [00:00:39] Brett: so your choice, you want to, do you wanna kick into that before a mental health corner, or should we get mental hor Health corner squared away? [00:00:46] Christina: let’s square away mental health corner and then we can talk about all the, all the media upheavals. [00:00:50] Mental Health Corner [00:00:50] Brett: So how’s your mental health, Christina? [00:00:52] Christina: It’s doing okay. It’s doing okay. Um, I was able to convince my mother that Taylor Swift, uh, is, is not, [00:01:00] um, a, a devil worshiper. [00:01:03] Brett: That’s a win. [00:01:03] Christina: That is a win. And so I’m taking her to the concert, um, this Friday. So I’m flying into Atlanta, and then we’re gonna go to the concert, and then I’m gonna stay in Atlanta for like another week, um, or 10 days I guess, so that I can be there for my nephew’s, um, second birthday, and then I’m, I’m coming back. [00:01:22] Christina: So, [00:01:23] Brett: So what tipped the scale? What, uh, how did you convince your mother that this, the witchcraft accusations were nonsensical? [00:01:31] Christina: well I’d already kind of had a conversation with her and then I kind of let it go. Like I didn’t talk to her for a while and then I, when we were on the phone again, I was like, okay, I wanna bring this up because, you know, like, I, I haven’t done anything yet, but, but it’s, I, I can still get tickets and, and, and I, I wanna do this. [00:01:51] Christina: And she was able to, um, I think that that had dissipated, I think that, that, like, the fear on that, she was like, and you don’t think, and I was like, no, not even [00:02:00] remotely. Her fears were about like, being around all these people and potentially getting covid. And I was like, that’s fair, but you know, you can, you can wear, wear a mask or whatever. [00:02:08] Christina: And I was like, I was, I was like, she was like, well, you know, we could go another time. And like in my mind I’m like, not wanting to say like obvious, which is like, you know, next time she tours, like, you might be in a different place in your life where you might not wanna do this. So I instead, I just kind of appealed. [00:02:22] Christina: I was like, look, this is literally getting heralded. It’s like one of like the best tours of like all time, like this is like, this is like a once in a lifetime sort of event. And I was just like, I, I wanna share this with you, so. [00:02:38] Brett: So, cuz like, despite being 29, your mom’s kind of up there in years, right? [00:02:43] Christina: Right, right. [00:02:44] Brett: So you never know. You never know if she’s gonna be mobile and, and so, okay, side side note, did you know that the current season of Sex in the City, the Stars are older than the first [00:03:00] season stars of, uh, golden Girls? [00:03:03] Christina: Yes. And it fucks me up. [00:03:05] Brett: That’s so weird. [00:03:06] Brett: That’s so weird. [00:03:08] Christina: Well wait, well what it does though, is it kind of like reaffirms like, I mean, you know, they called all the golden girls and you’ve had Pi Arthur and um, um, what’s her face? Um, uh, the woman who played, um, Sophia who had gray hair, but like, they were still like fucking and stuff on the show and, and, and, and we all thought they were old, but I think it was cuz of the title, right? [00:03:32] Christina: Like, if they hadn’t called it that, like, I don’t know. [00:03:36] Brett: that is how they sold it, [00:03:37] Christina: That is how they sold it. Exactly. But, but it’s so funny because now I think, you know, if you’re like, oh, you know, selling a show about women in their fifties, no one would think that they were like golden. Anything. You know what I mean? Like, like that, like that that implies like you’re in your seventies, you know, like whatever. [00:03:53] Christina: But like [00:03:54] Brett: like in my, in my mind, that’s gotten worse, not better, but apparently [00:04:00] like women in their fifties are now viewed as, you know, viable human beings in a way they weren’t [00:04:05] Christina: Oh, 100%. 100%. 100%. And, and you know who I have to weirdly credit this with, and this, this feels weird to say Andy fucking Cohen, because Real Housewives, like that whole franchise has made women like, who are 50 plus, like they are, that is the women who star and like run that world. Like, they like, they like they started in on their forties, but like really it’s when they’re in their fifties and they are getting into drama and they’re getting into relationships, they’re getting into all kinds of other shit and like, They are, you know, that is, that is who runs that franchise, [00:04:39] Brett: my girlfriend is edging up on 50 and as a, like, I, it doesn’t, it, it’s just a number, right. But at the same time it’s 50. Like, I’m gonna be dating a 50 year old and like that’s taken some, I’ve had to come to terms, she’s five years older than me, [00:05:00] and, uh, it’s like, it’s five years. I’m, I’m 45, so like, I’m 44, almost 45, but like five years is very insignificant. [00:05:11] Brett: We’re the same age in, in the grand scheme of things. And I don’t know why it ever bothered me, but I think it’s a societal thing. This like idea of like 50 years old. You’re you’re pasture prime. Yeah. You’re, but she’s not at all. She’s a, she, she does yoga four times a week. And [00:05:31] Christina: she’s probably better, honestly, she probably is better in shape than like women who are [00:05:35] Brett: Mo most thirties. Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:38] Christina: Um, uh, certainly better shape than me. Um, and like, yeah, no, it, it is weird how it is such a societal thing and like, it’s, it’s, [00:05:48] Brett: don’t tell her that. It freaked me out though, because it freaks her out. Like turning 50, freaks her out. Um, and she doesn’t need to know that. It also freaks me out a little. [00:05:58] Christina: No, I mean, yeah. No, [00:06:00] she [00:06:00] Brett: This is just between you and me. [00:06:01] Christina: yeah, and, and, and the internet and, and ho and, and, and, uh, and, and hopefully l doesn’t listen, but if she does, I hope she knows like a, it is just a number. There are plenty of people who are younger who are in worse shape and plenty of people are older. Like you see it all the time. [00:06:15] Christina: Like, again, I, I also have to say, I have to give a little bit of credit to the Kardashians here because their whole like refusal to like, stop being like hot online is doing great things for women in their forties. And like, they’re not gonna stop, like when they turn 50, you know what I mean? Like, like, they’re never like, like, like, like people make fun of Madonna and granted, she’s like done too much shit to her face lately. [00:06:40] Christina: She’s also 65 years old. So like if you think about Madonna in her fifties, Madonna in her fifties was still really fucking hot and like, hadn’t fucked up her face that way, right? So, so there’s, you know, like my whole thing with her now, I’m like, look like you can do whatever the hell you want. You’re [00:07:00] Madonna, you’re the best. [00:07:01] Christina: Um, maybe lay off some of the fillers or like get better surgeons. However, like do whatever you wanna do. You still are amazing and can still kill it. So I, I’m grateful that we didn’t have this in the eighties, but now we have like these examples of like, Viable, like hot people who are, it hasn’t changed the whole thing cuz people still, like, if you’re over 30, people still consider you out to pastor if you’re a woman. [00:07:28] Christina: But, um, and this has never been that, that way for men ever. Um, like, uh, Catherine Zeta Jones and, and, and, um, Sean Connery we’re in a movie together where they played love interests and he was literally twice her age. Um, so like, and then that, that was in 1999. But like now, I think it’s, it is getting to the point where at least we have like better pop culture examples of like, women who are still super fucking hot, [00:07:58] Brett: Because there is [00:08:00] every chance that l will listen to this episode. I would like to say that I have officially dealt with my reservations. Like I’m totally fine with it. Like I, I came to realize I’m gonna be 50 in a few years myself, and I, I don’t, I, I’m not interested in girls half my age. Um, 25 year old girls still have a lot to figure out and I really enjoy, um, age appropriate women. [00:08:28] Brett: And, and, and Elle is, Elle is fucking fine and looking great and I, I, I love her. So, [00:08:37] Christina: you love her and, [00:08:38] Brett: I get through it. [00:08:39] Christina: well, and like, it’s not like you’re trying to have kids, right? Like this is like the one example that men will, will give, where they’ll be like, well, I still wanna have children. And like that, that’s the only biological limiter that like women do, genuinely have. Like, is that you go through menopause or whatever and um, but like if you’re not trying to have kids, [00:09:00] then who cares? [00:09:00] Brett: Yeah. And I, I took care of that problem a few years back, [00:09:05] Christina: Right. So, which is good. I’m glad you took care of that problem because usually it’s us who has to take care of that problem, uh, and on, on every [00:09:11] Brett: so easy for guys to get a mastectomy. It’s [00:09:15] Christina: I know, I know. You, you get a snip, you [00:09:17] Brett: don’t even have to go under for it. [00:09:19] Christina: no, you get a snip, you, you, you get some ice, you get some pain, you get some painkillers if you’re allowed to take those. [00:09:25] Christina: And that’s it. [00:09:26] Brett: yeah. And then it’s, and then it’s done and it’s safe. And a hysterectomy is, holy shit. That is the most invasive procedure I can think of. [00:09:36] Christina: But the number, the number of, of, of women that I know who, and the, these are like women who are like younger than me, who are like, yeah, my boyfriend, my husband, whatever, won’t get a mastectomy and I’m worried about this and that, so I’m gonna have to get my tubes tied. And I’m like, I’m like, holy shit. [00:09:49] Christina: It’s usually, it. It’s, it’s getting your tubes tied rather than a hysterectomy. Um, which, which is less invasive than that, but it’s still not great. [00:09:56] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, dude, seriously, [00:10:00] guys, it’s not that hard. Like it, it takes, you recover for like a week, but like everything was really fine for me after about three days. And, uh, uh, and it can, it can technically be reversed if you ever change your mind. So, and your insurance will cover it and you can, you can opt to be put under, but you can also do it totally awake with a doctor’s visit. [00:10:26] Brett: Just fucking do it. I think guys in their twenties should do it. [00:10:32] Christina: spay and new to your pets spay and new to your men. [00:10:34] Brett: Yeah, totally. We have enough kids in the world. We really do. You don’t, you don’t need many mes running around. Um, so anyway, is that, is that your mental health [00:10:48] Christina: that’s my mental health update. Yeah. [00:10:50] Brett: All right. I, um, I am, I’m doing pretty well. I’m having a super A D H D day today. Um, like I have [00:11:00] a few like high pressure tasks that are due on Wednesday and I am sitting here feeling bored, which is like, To, for me, that’s a sign that my A D H D has taken over. [00:11:15] Brett: When like, I know there’s shit that needs to be done. There are fires burning behind me and I’m like, oh, I’m so bored. What, what could I, what can I do? Um, so I’m working on that. Uh, the microdosing is going well. I have found, um, tolerance to be an issue, uh, where 200 milligrams was. Was really like doing it for me. [00:11:43] Brett: Um, I was feeling like attentive and creative and, and things were going well. Now it takes like 400 and it’s only been a week. Um, it’s not, it, the tolerance builds up fast. So you have to take breaks, you have to, [00:12:00] like, one recommendation I saw said three days on, two days off. And my brain is like, but it’s working. [00:12:07] Brett: Why would I stop? And, um, so I’m trying to like, I’m trying to convince myself that it’s worth taking a couple days off, maybe even a week off, uh, to try to prevent this tolerance from building up. But in general, man, it is, it has totally been the answer for me. I’m very, I’m very excited about microdosing. [00:12:28] Brett: Um, [00:12:29] Christina: That’s awesome. I was talking, I was talking to a friend last night, um, about how she’s been doing, and I didn’t know this, but she’s been doing, um, ketamine therapy for the last two years and it’s really, really helped her. And that’s reinforced my, like, resolve to actually start doing that. [00:12:45] Christina: Sorry, go on. [00:12:46] Brett: Yeah. No, I highly recommend it. Um, I’ve heard from, because I’ve been pretty open and public about it, I’ve heard from, uh, a bunch of people, about half of them sharing their own stories, um, [00:13:00] about, um, like weekend retreats followed by a microdosing schedule and how beneficial that’s been. Um, and then about half of them just saying, I’ve heard so many good things. [00:13:14] Brett: I just wanted to like, get more about your story and, and what’s working for you before I go out and try this. And most of the people who are curious about it have never tripped before in their lives. Like they have no. No foundation for understanding of, uh, psychoactives and, and hallucinogens, um, which I did going into it. [00:13:38] Brett: Um, but, but those people, uh, understandably are, uh, they don’t have a clue. They don’t, they don’t know what it’s like to, to trip, to have your, your mind like open like that. Uh, so honestly, I would recommend [00:14:00] to anyone curious about microdosing that you, that you full dose once and understand like what the drug you’re, you’re looking at can-do. [00:14:11] Brett: And it’s like full potential before you start, like just teasing it with the microdose. Um, but anyway, [00:14:19] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I was gonna say, I’ve never done any sort of hallucinogen, so I would, yeah, my whole thing is like, I’ve like, wanted to go, I’ve wanted to try it, but I’m like, I would need to be in a guided experience. Um, and, and [00:14:33] Brett: Oh, oh, [00:14:34] Christina: by that. [00:14:34] Brett: I recommend the guided experience, like, it is, it is like a hair trigger to have a bad trip. Like you can have a real bad, you can still come out of it with the benefits of like, if you’re working on quitting drinking or changing habits or, or, you know, um, improve, uh, helping depression. Like even a bad trip can help you get there. [00:14:57] Brett: But the nice thing about a retreat is they [00:15:00] really focus on an intention going in and they provide you with a really safe space that, that is more likely to give you a good experience with it. Um, so I do, I do recommend at the very least, having a guide, if not a full retreat. [00:15:19] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, that, that, that’s, that’s what I would do because, um, I just. A, I wouldn’t necessarily know like, am I taking the right amount or like, what, what are you picking up on? What are you not Like, it was just, it, it would be like when I went skydiving, like just go with someone else. [00:15:36] Brett: for sure. [00:15:36] Christina: like be tethered. [00:15:37] Christina: Have someone else tethered to you, like Yeah, [00:15:41] Brett: Yeah. I can’t imagine going skydiving without a guide, at least the first time. [00:15:46] Christina: totally. [00:15:47] Brett: Um, there’re even, there are even studies showing M D M A as a treatment for depression. Um, and honestly, like my experience with [00:16:00] recreational ecstasy, um, like it’s, it’s a blast. Like the drug itself is amazing. The come down is scary. [00:16:09] Christina: right. And my experience with with recreational is that it had no effect on me whatsoever. [00:16:15] Brett: what? Oh, that sucks. I’m so sorry cuz it is so much [00:16:19] Christina: Right. Well, that’s what everybody told me and I tried multiple times. [00:16:24] Brett: Really? So it wasn’t just one bunk batch, you’re just like immune to [00:16:28] Christina: Immune. I’m just immune to it. [00:16:30] Brett: Wow. That sucks. [00:16:31] Christina: like the same thing with cocaine. I’m just immune. [00:16:33] Brett: Oh, that [00:16:34] Christina: It really [00:16:35] Brett: so sorry for you. I, I know drugs are bad. I know, but oh my God, I love drugs. [00:16:44] Christina: Okay. Should we go into, uh, should we go into our next topic before we talk about, uh, and we, we don’t wanna talk about any of our sponsors right now, right after that, [00:16:52] All Tuckered Out [00:16:52] Brett: no, we should give it, we, we need a buffer. So, so let’s talk about this big media news. [00:17:00] Tell us what’s happening in the world of media. [00:17:02] Christina: Well, okay. So again, we’re recording this on a Monday morning and, um, the, the, the top host of both Fox News and CNN n are out. Uh, Tucker Carlson is gone from Fox News. [00:17:15] Brett: Uh, according to the press release, they agreed to part ways, but I really don’t feel like it was voluntary on Tucker’s [00:17:21] Christina: No, no, no. They had to pay out his contract, I’m sure. Uh, this was not a Bill O’Reilly’s situation where they, they’d paid out, you know, over the years, many, many, many millions of dollars on Bill’s behalf because of, of his weird sex pervert stuff. Um, and, uh, and then they fired him finally. This, I’m sure they had to pay out the remainder of Tucker’s contract, which was probably a lot of money. [00:17:45] Christina: But they have agreed to part ways. Um, they’re losing their number one host far and away. I mean, he’s one of the top rated programs on all of cable, let alone cable news. Uh [00:17:57] Brett: the most dangerous program on [00:18:00] Fox. So losing them is, is kind of a net benefit for, for society. But [00:18:05] Christina: this is a, this is a positive, to be clear. Um, I’m already seeing people try to like, Downgrade this be like, oh, well he’ll just go to newsmax. And I’m like, okay, first of all, newsmax doesn’t have Tucker money. Second of all, newsmax doesn’t have Fox reach and the people who watch Fox News don’t know how to use the internet well enough to watch newsmax. [00:18:24] Christina: So it doesn’t matter. Like cuz cuz they don’t have the distribution. It’s like o a n, like who cares? Um, I’m not saying that it’s not a potential problem, but it’s, it’s not the same thing. Um, you know, in a different world where cable television were still relevant, it could be a concern that they might have a decade to catch up and then take over. [00:18:43] Christina: But like in a decade, cable news is not going to exist. So I don’t, you know, again, it’s just like whatever. Um, no, but that’s massive. Um, uh, the, the underlying implication there is that this is because of the Dominion lawsuit. Um, and, uh, dominion and, and Fox, um, settled, [00:19:00] um, over, uh, libel claims and Fox agreed to pay Dominion 737 million, um, which is, uh, Um, less than what they were trying to go for, would’ve gone for in a lawsuit. [00:19:11] Christina: And a lot of people were angry on the internet about that settlement. I, from the get go, I’ve, I’ve said this is going to have a substantial impact on the network and is going to like, cause actual change to happen. And people are like, oh no, it won’t. They’ve just been, they got off easy. No, you don’t lose 25% of your cash and equivalence position in one lawsuit and still have others. [00:19:34] Christina: You have to settle and not have to make substantial changes. Um, especially with the discovery that had come out. Um, and, and Tucker’s discovery, even though he, you know, um, Ebola host, he probably did the, the best job of not directly libeling any company while he was on air. Uh, he certainly, um, was allowing. [00:19:59] Christina: You know, [00:20:00] uh, wasn’t speaking out. I mean, he was speaking out, but he, he also wasn’t speaking out like the, the, the behind the scenes emails were fascinating because it, he made it clear that he can’t stand Trump, that he thinks a lot of the people he works with are idiots. Uh, [00:20:11] Brett: Lindela is insane. [00:20:12] Christina: that, that he, that he thinks their viewership are idiots. [00:20:16] Christina: Um, and, and so there was nothing but disdain for all of those things. Um, but, uh, you know, um, he’s also, uh, would bring on people who would potentially say really crazy things, not push back. So, so he’s gone. I don’t know how Maria, um, uh, Baro still has a job. She needs [00:20:36] Brett: Right. Oh my God. [00:20:38] Christina: She’s the worst, and I’ve always disliked her. [00:20:41] Christina: So, um, like even before she moved to Fox. So [00:20:45] Brett: Yeah, [00:20:45] Christina: personally, I’m like, she’s, she’s awful. [00:20:47] Brett: She’s [00:20:48] Christina: She’s awful. Janine Perro needs to be gone. Like, I don’t know how that those people are still employed. I have a feeling the other shoe will drop with them, but then over on cnn, which is having a hell of a [00:21:00] time under, its his new president, um, ever since Jeff Zucker was, was, was fired under, I’m gonna be honest, I think pretty shitty circumstances. [00:21:09] Christina: I, I, I don’t think it was fireable. Everyone knew, literally everyone knew that he and, and his subordinate, um, who didn’t even really necessarily like whatever. Everyone knew they’d been in a relationship for many, many years. Like I knew, like everyone knew. It seemed to me like a complete and utter like, just, uh, facade to get rid of him in, in that way. [00:21:31] Christina: Um, but, but Chris, like the new guy, he’s been having a hard time. He created this CNN morning show, which has been getting terrible ratings. And it’s hosted by, um, uh, Don Lemon and, um, two other, um, um, p uh, uh, poppy Harlow and, uh, Caitlin, I can’t think of her last name. Uh, and, uh, Don Lemon’s out. Don Lemon has been fired. [00:21:55] Christina: Um, after this morning, um, a couple of months ago, [00:22:00] speaking of, uh, our earlier discussion about like ageism, uh, he made some really shitty comments on the air about Nikki Haley and saying that she didn’t have it anymore cuz she’s 51 and kind of implied that she was too old to run for president and, and shouldn’t be like acting like [00:22:16] Brett: in an era when the two prime primary, uh, contenders are both in their fucking eighties. Yeah. [00:22:24] Christina: Yeah, 100%. When you literally have like men in their seventies, like running for, you know, second terms, like, uh, our, you have a, you know, our president, like, let’s just be completely honest, doesn’t seem to have all of his mental faculties. [00:22:38] Brett: Fair. Fair. [00:22:39] Christina: it, like it’s probably better than Reagan was. [00:22:41] Christina: But we also know that Reagan like had Alzheimer’s, like, while he was in office. So I don’t know if the bar’s super high there to be really honest with you. Um, and, uh, you know, like, you know, it was, it was a shitty thing to say because there’s nothing wrong. Like you can have problems with Nikki Hilly’s, um, politics, but a, i, I think she looks great. [00:22:59] Christina: I [00:23:00] don’t [00:23:00] Brett: Yeah. She does. [00:23:01] Christina: honestly, and, and B, like 51. Is really fucking young for a presidential like candidate. Like, let’s not, like, let’s not even talk about like how old Hillary was when she was running. You know what I mean? Like, like, and I get it. Hillary’s never been hot in her life, so she’s never gonna be part of that conversation, which is sexism for a whole other reason, but whatever. [00:23:21] Christina: It is what it is. She’s never been the hot girl. That’s fine. Um, Nikki Haley, like has, it’s an, is an attractive woman, but it was a shitty statement. And then Variety, I think it was, came out with a really damning expose a few weeks ago detailing his history with women at CNN over the last 17 years as well as with other people. [00:23:42] Christina: And just, he seems like he’s a diva nightmare to work with. I will say I have been on, um, air with Don Lemon at least a dozen times. He was always very nice to me, but I never worked with him. Um, but, but, but I will say like of the hosts that I interacted with a lot on cnn, when I used to go on CNN n a lot, he [00:24:00] was always very kind to me. [00:24:01] Christina: So, You know, um, uh, I can’t speak to the, any of the rest of it, but I also don’t doubt the reporting. Um, and so I, I have a, but my, my, my gut on that is that, um, they are using the Dominion lawsuit again as cover to be able to fire him because they might have had a difficult time firing him otherwise, but now they can say, okay, we could potentially have liability issues because of his tendency to kind of go off on the air. [00:24:32] Christina: And now [00:24:33] Brett: despite belonging to two protected categories. [00:24:37] Christina: precisely, despite Right, be because, well, that, because that’s a difficult thing with, with Don Lemon and, and, and, and it, and it should be to be clear, if, if you are part of two protected categories, it should be harder for people to fire you, in my opinion. Um, but uh, that doesn’t mean that it’s, that it’s impossible, and it doesn’t mean, especially in a business like television, which is. [00:24:56] Christina: All about trust and is all about like brands, you know, integrity [00:25:00] and other things. Like, and also it’s, it’s also about looks, it’s about a lot of really surface things that people don’t like to admit, but like, that’s what, that’s what the business is about. Um, it’s one of the reasons why, like me doing on air stuff, like I, I don’t go on TV anymore, but, you know, I, I hear things like, it’s in my great advantage to look as young as possible. [00:25:21] Christina: Like, [00:25:21] Brett: Sure. [00:25:22] Christina: no, but like genuinely, like I, you know what I mean? Like, I can’t afford to look old or tired or aging. Like you can’t. So, um, in this case, I think that the dominion, this is just trickle down from that because CNN is like, okay, we can now use this as potential. You know, this and all the other things can be like, okay, he’s now, he’s a liability for the network. [00:25:47] Christina: And, and as you mentioned, the Fox shareholder lawsuits, like that’s not even a, a, you know, a question mark thing. And, and, um, the, like, that, that becomes like a, cuz that, that’s a genuine concern. I [00:26:00] think liability now for, for, for these, um, networks, which is honestly, I think the best case scenario from all of this. [00:26:06] Christina: Again, a lot of people in my opinion, and I’ll stop talking about this in a second, we can talk about tv, but a lot of people were really pissy about dominion settling. And I think that that was really misguided on two levels. One, a lot of the discovery already got out and was very damning and that was good. [00:26:23] Christina: Two, even though in this case I totally thought the dominion had a really, really strong case. I personally was really worried about the precedent that would be set. If slash when Dominion was found, um, uh, the Fox was found, you know, um, libelous in that case, because I think that First Amendment protections in this country, especially against the news, are incredibly important. [00:26:50] Christina: And I would hate for something like this. And, and to be clear in this case, I absolutely do believe that Dominion had a point. I think I’m somebody who is very against most libel cases against news [00:27:00] organizations. I think the bar has to be exceedingly high because otherwise you cannot do what we do. And, and if you look at how the libel situation works in, in other countries, they cannot, they do not have the freedoms that we have and, and they’re reporting this not as good as a result. [00:27:14] Christina: It’s just not. Um, but in my opinion, just looking at, at like what the facts were as we saw them, I was like, okay, if there’s ever been a case of libel actually happening, this is an instance. And I was very worried about the precedent that would be set. I. If, you know, the court found in, um, in dominion’s favor because I, it was one of those things where you, you worry could a New York Times versus Sullivan thing could, could something like that be unset and that that would be a disaster for, for, for, for the press and for freedom of the press. [00:27:49] Christina: So I think, sorry, go on. [00:27:50] Brett: No, somatic has said that they won’t settle for less than Dominion, got 737 million. Um, [00:28:00] which means because their, uh, their value, their valuation is lower than Dominions, uh, that the settlement would be like the ratio would be off and it would almost be a benefit to Fox to go to trial. Um, do you think that that is a danger, uh, in the way that Dominion was? [00:28:26] Christina: I don’t think it is in the same way, but I do think it is a danger. I’ll also say, and I’m not a lawyer, but just watching these things, that feels like a bluff to me to be like, we won’t settle for any less. I feel like if somebody comes with a really good offer, especially with the amount of billable hours and things they’ve had, at a certain point, if you don’t take it, it looks really bad. [00:28:45] Christina: Especially because I don’t think, and again, not to say that the case isn’t really strong. But Smart Matic wasn’t the name that you heard all the time. Like I think the reason that it was a slam dunk for Dominion was because most of us had never heard of that company before, and then all of a sudden [00:29:00] we heard it and we heard it in a really negative way. [00:29:02] Christina: Where I think you can draw a direct parallel to there being like immeasurable and demonstrable like impact damages. Like I think you can do it. I don’t know if you can make the same argument Formatic. I don’t. I, I honestly don’t. And so I think that would be a gamble and I think they’d be stupid to not settle for 500 million or 350 million like I think they would be. [00:29:22] Christina: So I think we’ll see. But I do, I do have that concern. Um, but um, I think that so far anyway, this has been the best possible scenario because we don’t have the precedent set to potentially like, Dis, you know, to, to, uh, potentially like, you know, unth thwart no New York Times versus Sullivan. Um, but we also are seeing very real impact on the business, on the news business, uh, which is what you want, right? [00:29:51] Christina: This was a big enough judge, this was a big enough settlement. It’s not like they can just come back from this. It’s 25% of their cash and equivalence is the amount of money they’ve [00:30:00] had to pay. Like they had to finance this in very specific ways to even, you know, be able to pay this off. Like, this is not a small thing. [00:30:07] Christina: I could see Dominion potentially doing like, and not Dominion Smart Medic. Maybe they would get away with their, um, you know, their, their, their stance. Maybe they could wiggle room if it was like maybe a stock in cash thing. Like I could see that as, as being maybe, you know, part of it being like, oh, well, we’ll, we’ll get a certain amount of equity or, or stock grants or something else. [00:30:27] Christina: I, I, I don’t know how that would work, but, um, It really did impact them significantly in the pocket. And now as we’re seeing, it’s having, uh, a very significant impact on, um, on their talent and on their programming. So I think that’s a win for democracy and for like fresh freedoms for all of it. [00:30:48] Brett: Do you wanna hear my amazing segue into our [00:30:51] Christina: Yes, I do. [00:30:52] Sponsor: Factor [00:30:52] Brett: So Dominion really made a meal out of Fox News. [00:30:56] Christina: Woo. Yes. [00:30:57] Brett: And this episode is brought to you by [00:31:00] Factor This spring you need nutri nutritious, convenient meals to energize you for warmer active days and to keep you on track for reaching your goals. Factor. [00:31:11] Brett: America’s number one, ready to eat meal kit can help you fuel up fast. With ready to eat meals delivered straight to your door. You’ll save time, eat well, and tackle everything on your to-do list. Too busy to cook this spring with Factor. Skip the trip to the grocery store and skip the chopping. Prepping, and cleaning up too. [00:31:31] Brett: Factors fresh. Never frozen. Meals are ready in just two minutes, so all you have to do is heat and enjoy and then get back outside and soak up the warmer weather. Uh, factor offers delicious flavor packed options on the menu each week to fit a variety of lifestyles from keto to calorie, smart, vegan, and veggie and protein plus, prepared by chefs and approved by dieticians. [00:31:57] Brett: Each meal has all of the ingredients you need to [00:32:00] feel satisfied all day long while meeting your goals. As part of this sponsorship factor, sent me a week of free, of free meals and I, when they asked for my meal preferences, I had to list that I’m vegetarian, dairy free, so kind of vegan and gluten free. [00:32:20] Brett: And I was like, when I go to most meal kit, uh, uh, services, they will offer all of those things individually. [00:32:30] Christina: Right, but not all together. [00:32:31] Brett: But to combine them, you’re left with very few options. And so I, I punched those in and I got six meals in the, in the mail, um, that, that were delicious. And, uh, and honestly one of their servings lasted me for two meals. [00:32:48] Brett: Uh, so I still haven’t even gone through my week of free meals at this point. And they came with seven smoothies. And the smoothies all have four grams of protein and four grams of fiber in [00:33:00] every bottle. So that’s like a whole lunch for me right there. Um, With 34 plus chef repair, dietician approved weekly options, there’s always something new to try. [00:33:11] Brett: Plus, you can round out your meal and replenish your snack supply with an assortment of 45 plus add-ons, including breakfast items like egg bites, smoothies, and more. With factor. You can rest assured you’re making a sustainable choice. They offer 100% delivery, 100% of their delivery emissions to your door are covered. [00:33:32] Brett: Source 100% renewable electricity for production sites and offices and feature sustainably source seafood in their meals. Head to Factor meals.com/ Overtired 50 and use the code Overtired 50 to get 50% off your first box. That’s code Overtired fifty@factormeals.com slash Overtired 50 [00:34:00] to get 50% off your first box. [00:34:03] Brett: I, uh, I, I’m impressed I that, that week of free meals really, cuz I’ve done, I’ve done Green Chef and I’ve done, uh, HelloFresh and I’ve, I’ve, I’ve done others like the fact that they’re never frozen. They show up [00:34:21] Christina: I was gonna, I was gonna say, this is what appeals to me. Um, I’m, I’m, um, I’m sad now that I didn’t like, fill out the form, that I didn’t like pay attention [00:34:28] Brett: You didn’t do it. [00:34:29] Christina: I didn’t do it. No, but, but because the, this is the thing that appeals to me, like the frozen meals. Like it’s not, it’s not, [00:34:36] Brett: they’re never as good. [00:34:38] Christina: yeah, I’m not, and again, I’m like, I’m not opposed to that, but like, in theory. [00:34:41] Christina: But it’s just, yeah, they’re never as good. And then, I’ll be honest with you, the meal kits, that’s, that’s too much effort. [00:34:47] Brett: That’s paying, that’s paying somebody else to put you to work. [00:34:50] Christina: Exactly. Right. You know, that, that, I mean, you know, that’s, that’s like the blue apron. Like you have like the single egg, like in like the little cute container with all the plastic and stuff. [00:34:58] Christina: And again, that’s fine. But again, like if I’m [00:35:00] ordering these meal plans, it’s because I don’t have like the, the talent to put these things together. Like shopping is not the problem. I could just order food directly from a delivery like grocery store or go to the grocery store myself. It’s, it, it is the putting it all together part that for me is a challenge, um, as with a, a cooking challenge person and an A D H D time management challenge person. [00:35:23] Christina: So I, I like this, that they’re like not frozen, that they’re refrigerated, ready for you to like, you know, heat and, and do, which, which I think is really nice. And it is really great to know that, um, they were able to get you combo meals for all those different dietary concerns. Like that’s actually very impressive because you’re like, I think about you, like, you’re like the nightmare person, like on the airplane, you know what I mean? [00:35:45] Christina: They’re like, okay, let, let, let’s just get him the bland meal. You know what I mean? [00:35:50] Brett: Let’s make that boy a smoothie. Yeah, yeah, totally. Um, yeah, I, uh, I, I like to cook and I’m, I’m a good [00:36:00] cook, but if I have to do half an hour of meal prep anyway. I don’t, I might as well just go to the grocery store as well and get, and get the ingredients that I trust. Um, and, and I, that’s fine and I, I’m happy to do that. [00:36:15] Brett: But having a meal in the fridge that on a night, I’ve had a long day of work and I just want to eat so I can get on with my evening, having something that takes two minutes in the microwave and doesn’t taste like a frozen meal is [00:36:31] Christina: not Because it’s not because it, because it is actually frustrated with player. I really like that. That’s awesome. [00:36:35] Brett: that was a huge value add for that sponsor, Reid, we [00:36:38] Promo Swap: iOS Today [00:36:38] Christina: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re welcome. Factor, uh, this, uh, we are also, we’re doing an episode swap, uh, sponsor swap this week with iOS today. And I love this because this is hosted by my good friend Micah Sergeant. [00:36:51] Christina: Um, and you can, so on this show, we’re obviously, um, iOS users, uh, Mac users, um, but if you wanna get the most from your [00:37:00] iPhone, your iPad, your Apple Watch and your Apple tv, then you wanna join, uh, my pal Micah Sergeant, who is the host of iOS today, along with my other friend, Rosemary Orchard, who I know you know as well, Brett. [00:37:11] Christina: And she’s, she’s fantastic. Every week they highlight, uh, tips and tricks and hidden features inside your iOS devices. Plus they cover the latest news and they try out the best accessories. So you can follow and subscribe to iOS today on Apple Podcasts, Spotify pockets, or wherever you listen to your pocket, uh, to your podcasts. [00:37:29] Christina: Um, Rosemary and Micah are great, and this is one of those podcasts I really do like because even though I consider myself, I’m probably not their target audience, to be honest, cuz I’m such a power user. I still like, learn about things and can get trip, uh, tips and tricks or can just, it’s kinda like gratitude, but a podcast, you know, in, in, in a lot of ways for me. [00:37:49] Christina: Cuz I’m like, oh, okay, I’m, cuz I’m no longer as plugged into the, the, um, iOS release cycle as I used to be, um, a as I was for many, many years. And so I, I like [00:38:00] iOS today a lot, but it’s, it’s a, it’s a really great podcast for anybody who’s doing things, uh, within iOS, wants to keep up with the latest, uh, news or find out about great apps and tips and tricks. [00:38:09] Christina: Good stuff. [00:38:10] Single Drunk Female [00:38:10] Brett: Awesome. All right. So, um, have you been watching the Hulu show? Single, drunk Female? [00:38:20] Christina: Yes. Um, so frequent listeners will know that this was both Brett and I like one of our favorite shows last year, at least. It was one of my favorite shows last year. Um, I think I was the one who discovered it first and I turned you onto it. Cuz I, I wanted your take cuz I thought you would really like it. [00:38:35] Christina: I thought that it, it, it, I still think that the cast is incredible. The, the, uh, star, uh, Sophia, uh, Sophia Delia Black, um, who was on, um, a sitcom I, I loved called the Mick. She’s fantastic. She’s a star and I stand by that. She’s. An absolute star. Um, and, um, the second season is out now. It’s, it airs on Freeform. [00:38:58] Christina: Um, but they put the [00:39:00] whole thing on Hulu. So the entire season is, uh, available on Hulu now. And then they’re airing like two episodes a week on freeform, whereas last year it was like a week by week basis on both. Um, and so I’ve watched, I binged it like in one sitting. Um, I would love your take on, on this season, what you’ve seen of it so far. [00:39:20] Brett: So I, I’m on, I think, I think we just finished episode four. [00:39:26] Christina: Okay. [00:39:27] Brett: And like the, so in the first season she gets sober. Um, in the second season she’s living sober and she’s, she’s navigating the world as a relatively newly sober person. Um, which I, I’ve, I’ve been there, I’ve done that, and I, I relate to all of the struggles she has. [00:39:51] Brett: Like, uh, she’s on a date with a guy and the waiter brings wine, which for most people is just a normal [00:40:00] part of life. But for her is like this, oh shit, what do I do [00:40:03] Christina: Right. It’s like this existential, how do I explain, like what do I [00:40:06] Brett: And, and her reaction is to lie and say she’s on antibiotics but not sick. Like, ah, she’s on like day four of antibiotics and she’s gonna see it through. [00:40:18] Brett: And she has this whole like, just spews out of her, this whole story about how, uh, this time it’s really important to her that she sees her course of antibiotics through and she can’t drink as a result. Um, and she has to go back to him a, a day or two later and be like, okay, so I lied. Here’s the real story. [00:40:37] Brett: And, and he’s totally cool with it, as I knew he would be like, but for her, like this need to, it was, it was, I I deeply related to that, that moment of panic. The thing that, okay, the thing the, the alcoholism and the recovery thing is, is fascinating. One of the things that. [00:41:00] That fascinates me is she’s gorgeous as, as a human being. [00:41:06] Brett: She is gorgeous and they dress her down for her role, uh, to the point where she’s, she’s almost like it would be if it were, uh, one of those movies where they like, take the glasses off the nerd and like she would, she’s ripe for that, the way they dress her down. And, and I, I kind of appreciate that. [00:41:29] Christina: Yeah, they’ve carried Russell on Felicity her, like they had to do the same thing to carry Russell on Felicity. They actually, JJ Abrams even said that when she came in. They were like, oh, we can’t cast you. You’re too pretty. And, and, uh, because for this character, you’re, you’re way too pretty. [00:41:42] Christina: And, and they, they had to like, dress her and, and like hide the prettiness. They even cut her hair after, after the first season. Uh, Ru ruined the show. Um, uh, but, but yes, this is that. I, I find that interesting too. They definitely. But even doing that, like you said, [00:42:00] it’s right for the Yeah, take the glasses off, like, like clean up the hair, you know, do a little makeup and, and she’s great. [00:42:06] Christina: Um, there’s this, and I don’t know if it’s in one of the episodes you saw, but there’s this, this flashback thing with her mom, and she’s like, oh, you know, and you look so beautiful without any makeup on. And she’s like, I’m wearing so much makeup. [00:42:16] Brett: Yeah, I remember that. [00:42:18] Christina: Um, which is great. [00:42:19] Brett: the story of her mother is like, her mother’s not a good person. Um, she’s never presented as a good person, but the episode we just watched her mother. So the fourth step in a 12 step program is when you list out all of your resentments. And hers had apparently taken 50 pages of a notebook and her mother reads it. [00:42:43] Brett: Invades her privacy, reads her fourth step and takes it personally. Like the whole point of the fourth step is to like, get it out, put it down on paper, and then let it go. Like all of all of all of these things that are mostly a product of your [00:43:00] own neurosis, you just put ’em down and you let ’em go and they should never be read. [00:43:05] Brett: Uh, and her mother reads them, holds it against her to the, to the extent that she fucking moves out, uh, which is I think, the only healthy response to that. [00:43:17] Christina: 100%. And, and then between all of this, um, for, um, for real life reasons, uh, I think because, uh, the actress got another show, the woman who had played her sponsor, this is another kind of ongoing thing, is that she has this year sober. Um, what happened at the end of the last season was that her, her estranged best friend, who she’s friends with again, got married to this guy and then immediately decided that she realized she did not wanna get married and, and shows up at, um, um, Sam’s house and, um, they’re kind of reconnecting. [00:43:51] Christina: Um, and, uh, but she had a sponsor who she met, like when she started getting sober and they developed a really strong bond. And her sponsor in the second season [00:44:00] is gone to Maine because she’s pregnant. She, uh, her, uh, she and her wife, um, have decided to have a baby and she’s pregnant and is now no longer able to be Sam’s sponsor. [00:44:09] Christina: And so this is all happening in a place where Sam is not really having like her strong support system. And then the guy that she’d been dating or been building towards dating in the first season, um, and they finally started to date and then he fell off the wagon, um, he’s not really as, as active in her life in the second season. [00:44:30] Christina: So, um, I thought that fourth episode was actually, so I, cause I watched the whole thing. I thought that that was one of the best ones. Um, and, and, and again, yeah, you’re right. The way that they play her mother, who’s played by Ally Sheti is not represented as like a, a great person. She’s, she’s complicated. [00:44:46] Christina: Like she definitely loves her daughter, but also is very judgmental of her daughter and of herself. You know, she’s, she’s, you, you, you can under, you can kind of see in the relationship, and again, it’s not a blame thing because it’s not like the mother caused her to be an [00:45:00] alcoholic. The alcoholism is, is, you know, based on, I, I think something biochemically that, that is within some people’s brains, right? [00:45:06] Christina: Because there’s some people who drink all the time and are, don’t have that propensity and then other [00:45:09] Brett: fact that her, the fact that her mother’s reaction to reading her forcep was to grab a bottle of wine is telling [00:45:16] Christina: It, it, it is, but it’s also, I think, you know, to the point is that you can kind of understand like, Some of the things like, not that would lead her to drink, but that would put her in a position where, like growing up in that environment where like she would maybe start to see alcohol as an escape from the pressures that, that her mom would have on her. [00:45:36] Christina: Um, I will say this, I watched the whole season. I don’t think it’s as good as the first season. Um, I don’t think it’s bad at all, but I don’t, I didn’t like it as much as I liked the first season. And I think it was, and a lot of shows do this, and this is n normally completely fine, but it’s, it’s try to become more of an ensemble show and focus more on some of the lives of some of the other [00:46:00] characters, which I get you need to do that. [00:46:02] Christina: But in my opinion, the strongest part of the show is Sophia Delia Black, like she is, and, and Sam, like I think that that story and that actress is such like she’s the center and the strongest part of that show. And I wonder if they didn’t maybe like, Expand outside of, you know, her a little bit too much. [00:46:25] Christina: Like that was, that’s, that was kinda my only kind of feedback. [00:46:28] Brett: Can I say I love the additional focus on her fat [00:46:32] Christina: Yes. That Lily may Hern. I agree with that. I think she’s the other best part of the show. Like I think she’s great and I would love to see more of her. [00:46:39] Brett: To have a secondary character who is fat, like not, not Hollywood, chubby, like actually fat, who has an active sex life, who has a real personality, who has a depth of character, um, serves both as like a friend, but as her [00:47:00] own individual human being. I think that is great representation for real people. [00:47:06] Christina: who’s hot and who, to my knowledge, the weight thing has never even come up. Like, it’s never even been like she, [00:47:12] Brett: it’s never mentioned. [00:47:13] Christina: never mentioned and it’s never treated as like, oh, how great is it’s, it’s, no, it’s not. And it’s not, it like, like she, uh, the end of the first season, like, she meets this, this doctor or this hot guy, um, at, at a wedding, and he’s really into her and he’s the one who’s like pursuing her. [00:47:28] Christina: And then in the second season, they’re in a relationship. And, and we’re seeing how they’re trying to like, navigate those things together. And she’s the one who’s more ambivalent in some ways, which honestly, like, she’s a beautiful girl. And, and that is how that would really happen. But I really do appreciate that they don’t, um, like make it again this whole like, oh, you know, the, the fat girl is, is is finding a guy, you know, it’s not about [00:47:53] Brett: Lucky her. [00:47:55] Christina: her. You know, we’re gonna give her this shout out. No, it’s not like that at all. It’s not even mentioned. Right. And,[00:48:00] [00:48:00] Brett: Well, and they don’t pre, they don’t present her boyfriend as like a chubby chaser. He doesn’t fetishize her size in any way. He respects her like he’s in love with [00:48:10] Christina: And, and Right. Totally. And the thing is, is that, and the actress who’s very good, um, and, and I, and I think that she’s the second best actress on the show. Um, I, I, you know, she’s, she is very pretty, like, it’s funny, like they do the opposites, what they do with, um, Sophia De Black, like they really accentuate how attractive that actress is. [00:48:27] Christina: And again, I think she is a very pretty girl, but like, they go outta their way to really like do the makeup and the clothing, everything just right. Um, the same way that they have to kind of, um, underplay, um, the, the lead actresses beauty. And, and I think and look, that makes sense because for a show like this, like cuz cuz life is just easier on pretty people. [00:48:48] Christina: And, and it’s, it is and, and it’s just, it’s hard. [00:48:51] Brett: On Skinny White Girls. Sure. [00:48:52] Christina: mean, it’s, it, it look, it, it is. Um, and so it’s, uh, it’s hard to, uh, I [00:49:00] think, um, sell the whole, like, I’m starting over and I’m like hitting all these things, but I look like this. It’s like, well, yes, well, if you look like that, obviously things are going to come easier for you. [00:49:10] Christina: And so I think that they do the right thing in terms of, you know, the way they do her, her clothing and, and, and other styling. Although again, you can just tell she’s still a gorgeous girl. Um, no. So I like that aspect. There are just some other things I think that like, I don’t know. I also do miss the relationship with James, the, um, the guy that she had the friendship slash relationship with in the first season. [00:49:31] Brett: Oh yeah, I forgot. [00:49:33] Christina: yeah, like, like they, they, they, they bring that in a little bit more and they show his journey to recovery in the second season. And I do like watching his, his, um, um, journey. Um, his, his journey and what he does is a little bit different than some other things I. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it’s not that I, I don’t, I, it’s not that I mind like the focus on the other people. [00:49:52] Christina: I think it’s just like, these are 30 minute episodes, so that equivalently means 20 minutes. You’ve only got 10 episodes of content. Like, if this was a [00:50:00] longer show, like if this could be like Ted Lasso style where your episodes can be longer than like 20 minutes. Like if you could have like a 45 minute episode Right. [00:50:08] Christina: And still be considered a half hour and we could get to know these characters more, I think that would, like, that would, that I think would fit this show more. But because they have a, a broadcast deal, they can’t do that. So I, I, I, I feel like they’re really constrained honestly, by like, just the number of, of of minutes they have to tell all the stories. [00:50:28] Brett: I really appreciate shows that, take that challenge though. Like, so my attention span, a half hour show is a 20 minute show is great for my attention span. Um, I, uh, any hour long show drags for me and I start checking, I start checking the, the time remaining, uh, probably at about the 40 minute mark. Um, that said like, as a constraint to tell a story in half hour serial segments, [00:51:00] um, I think is, uh, a writing challenge that some shows really step up to. [00:51:06] Brett: And I feel like, I feel like single, single grown female does a pretty good job of [00:51:09] Christina: I think it does too. It’s just, it’s one of those rare cases. I’m similar to you where I rarely want a show to go longer, but in this case I do. Um, and, and I, and I, I feel like, I think that they, it is a good, no, it. [00:51:22] Brett: means they’re doing it right. [00:51:23] Christina: No, it is a good thing. I think, I don’t know, the, the first season to me was absolutely the best new show on TV last year, in my opinion. [00:51:30] Christina: Um, and I still really liked this season. I didn’t like it as much. I really, really hope that it is able to come back for a third. Um, uh, it’s very clear, the only reason it got a second was because it was very popular on Hulu. I hope that that continues and that they continue to promote it because it can’t be that expensive. [00:51:50] Christina: I think it’s a really important show. We don’t see shows showing up, talking about recovery and, and all the, of its iterations. Um, [00:52:00] uh, the, the, the mother characters play by Allie Sheie. She goes through some, some changes as the, as the season goes on, and I’m not, I’m not trying to spoil anything, but just like set you up for this. [00:52:10] Christina: Like, they also have her starting to, uh, uh, you know, look into attending Al-Anon. Um, [00:52:17] Brett: Yeah. That just happened. And the last one I watched, or it was suggested to [00:52:21] Christina: It was suggested. And, and that I think is honestly a, i I, that is one thing I did appreciate about the broadening of this season is focusing on, okay, it’s not just the person in recovery, it’s all the people in their life as well and what does it do to, to the family members. [00:52:35] Christina: And, um, even though like the, the mother is not a great person, like that I think is a story that is never told. Like I’ve never seen, like it’s always about the person who has the addiction. I’ve never seen any story focusing on like, what is it like for the people left behind? And that’s what I really appreciated about both seasons of this show is that it’s shown like the impact that her addiction has [00:53:00] had, not just on her, but on the other people in her life, her friends, her family, and, and that I think is, um, is incredibly powerful. [00:53:07] Christina: And this is the sort of TV that we need more of. And, and so I hope we get another season of it because I, I do think that I, I mean, I. And I’m not an addict, but I, but I, I live with one and, and I, you know, have friends who are, and like, I, I appreciate very much the way that this is being portrayed in a way that is not judgmental to anyone, but just seems like it to me anyway. [00:53:29] Christina: It rings very true. [00:53:30] Brett: It’s very hopeful. It’s, uh, it, it shows that recovery can happen [00:53:35] Christina: It does. [00:53:35] Brett: and that healing can happen and yeah, no, it’s a great [00:53:39] Christina: It’s a great show. It’s very funny. They have very funny people in it. Um, John Glasser, um, who, uh, uh, is, um, uh, from um, like he was on Delocated and um, uh, a couple of other, um, adult swim shows, um, makes a couple of other appearances as like her former boss, cuz [00:53:58] Brett: Oh dude. [00:54:00] From Parks and Rec. Yeah. [00:54:02] Christina: he, but he, but he was also on that, at that, that, that show on Adult Swim Delocated. [00:54:06] Brett: I never saw [00:54:07] Christina: Okay. Yeah, we played this guy, this family, like the Witness protection program. It was, it was, it was, it was a really bizarre show. It was, it was like the same type of thing as like the children’s hospital sort of shit. [00:54:15] Brett: I, I hate, I, I love him as an actor. I hate his character so much in this show, which is like, obviously the point of his character. But [00:54:26] Christina: Yeah. [00:54:27] Brett: he is so flawed, but like sympathetic like I, I feel for him, but at the same time I’m like, dude, [00:54:35] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Um, no. So yeah, so I definitely, I, I, um, I did, like I said, it was, and I might go back and watch the second time. My opinion might change in the second rewatch. Um, uh, but I, I definitely think people should watch the first season, watch the second season too. We needed to have a third. Um, and I’d like to hear your thoughts as, as you watch the rest of it. [00:54:55] Ted Lasso and Wrexham [00:54:55] Christina: Um, okay. Ted Lasso. I know that we’re like running out of time, but, yep.[00:55:00] [00:55:00] Brett: um, uh, all I have to say about Ted Lasso is, thus far, it’s the best season yet, and Ted Lasso is one of my favorite shows of all times. So, to tr to Trump the first two seasons, uh, it is a feat and, and they’re nailing [00:55:18] Christina: they are nailing it. [00:55:19] Brett: the fucking team hasn’t won a single game yet. [00:55:23] Christina: Yeah, [00:55:24] Brett: watching, you’re watching a show ostensibly about a soccer team that never wins a game. [00:55:29] Christina: totally. And, and, and, and no, and it, and it’s, um, you know, when it, it setting up, like the way they set up the first two seasons was just so good. Uh, and then you wonder like, okay, how are they going to end this out? And I think this is their last season. Like they haven’t officially confirmed that, but that, that feels like this is it for them. [00:55:46] Brett: It does feel like [00:55:47] Christina: And, um, this is I think another like great example Succession, which is my favorite show on tv. Uh, you know, it’s also ending this year after a fourth season. And I really do appreciate. [00:56:00] Like having an arc in mind and then keeping to the arc. Like, it, it sucks for people who love the show cause you’re like, man, you could have done more. [00:56:08] Christina: But I do really appreciate having an arc and then sticking with it. [00:56:11] Brett: the depth of these Ted Lasso characters, like every. Every, even every member of the team at this point, we have some backstory for, we have some connection to, and, and like Jamie Tart and who’s the guy who growls, I always forget his [00:56:30] Christina: Um, um, uh, yeah. Um, um, uh, well, it’s Brett Goldstein, but, um, uh, um, Roy? [00:56:36] Brett: right? Roy Kent. And, and Ted Lasso And Coach Beard. And, uh, what’s the, uh, Higgins, uh, like, and, and Rebecca, like all of these characters like you have this strong connection to, and they can make an episode focus on any one of these characters and I will care. [00:56:57] Christina: No, and that’s the thing. I mean, I have to say, like, this is [00:57:00] really one of those shows. Like I have to, I mean, um, Jasons Jacobs gets a lot of credit for the show as he should because, you know, he’s, he’s obviously the star and he’s done a lot of writing work. But this was a, you know, um, this is a Bill Lawrence, um, show and, um, if you ever watched any of his other shows, um, and I’ve been a big, big, big Bill Lawrence fan, um, basically forever. [00:57:20] Christina: This has the hallmarks of his shows, and I think this is one of his best. So he did Scrubs and he did Clone High, and he did, um, uh, um, actually worked on a, what was it, a, um, spin City and um, you know, has a history of like, uh, he did a, um, a cougar town. Um, and, uh, he’s a, this is I think, um, indicative of a lot of like some of his best writing things. [00:57:45] Christina: He, he’s really great at creating these shows with these like casts that feel like real people and that feel like real people, you know, and that you care about. And, and I think that this is one that like, Is is probably one of the most of any show I’ve seen. Like they’ve, other than like, you know, peaked the [00:58:00] Simpsons and maybe Parks and Recreation, like you really do feel like you know these people and you care about them. [00:58:06] Christina: Um, and, and then it’s just, it, it’s one of those rare shows, like it came out in this time and it wasn’t like written for the pandemic or anything, but it came out in this time when we were all like, didn’t have hope. And, and it was like this one, like, nice thing. And it’s been nice to kind of have this like very, very good show. [00:58:25] Christina: Like where, like the, the, the, the fundamental message of this is hopeful again, like, like single drunk fema. Like the, like the message is hopeful, you know, hope is the whole thing. [00:58:34] Brett: Speaking of hope and soccer, [00:58:37] Christina: Yes. [00:58:38] Brett: reim, uh, what was the, I can’t even remember the name of the show with Rob Mcleany. Was it just called Reim? [00:58:46] Christina: I think it might have just been that. Yeah. [00:58:48] Brett: Uh, the, the, the team that Rob Mcleany and Ryan Reynolds bought, um, Rex Am United, just got promoted from [00:59:00] their fifth tier, uh, league. Uh, they just got promoted. Paul Rudd showed up with Rob and Ryan to see the game, uh, or to see the, the, I I assume it was a game, um, that got them promoted to the next, uh, level. [00:59:21] Brett: And it wasn’t, this wasn’t part of the show. This was just side news. Uh, but amazing story after, after the, the trials and tribulations of the, the TV series. And I just imagined being at a soccer match, uh, a football match with Ryan Reynolds, Rob McEleney and Paul Rudd, and having it go well. Like that would be, that’s like [00:59:53] Christina: amazing. Right? [00:59:55] Brett: moment for me. [00:59:56] Christina: Totally, totally. Well, and I have to say, like, I thought the show was great and, and the [01:00:00] concept is good. And it is funny cuz like, um, you know, Ryan Reynolds, like he sold MIT mobile. Like he’s where everybody was like, he was like, yeah, he needs, needs money for the club. You know, [01:00:07] Brett: Right, right. It’s working out. That’s [01:00:10] Christina: now. [01:00:11] Christina: No, it’s great. Um, no, I, I, I, I love, I love that and I love that they got promoted, like that’s, And again, like it’s, it’s, the, the great thing about like TB is when it can like, make you interested in, in other parts of this, right? Because like, because I don’t give a shit about like soccer, football, whatever. [01:00:26] Christina: Like, I, I, I could care less. It is, it is not my country’s sport. Like in this country we care about women’s soccer a little bit and we care, like during the World Cup, like that’s the only time people in this country ever pay attention to the other football. Like, uh, because like our religion is actual football and I’m sorry, but, but it is the n l is actual [01:00:45] Brett: Absolutely. [01:00:46] Christina: Um, and it, it’s just that, that’s how it goes. So, um, yeah, I think Ted Lasso is great. Um, I, I’ll also say, um, I know that we need to get into our gratitude, but I will just do a shout out. I know that you didn’t like it or when you [01:01:00] tried, it’s just the l like commented, like all the people are terrible and I totally agree, but the final season of succession is some of the best TV I’ve ever seen. [01:01:09] Christina: Um, the third episode. Um, I don’t wanna spoil anything, um, even though at this point most people know what happened, but the third episode is genuinely one of the best episodes of television I’ve seen ever. And if succession sticks the landing, it will look, it’s gonna be a top 10 show regardless. But if it sticks this series finale landing and it’s looking like they will, like, I don’t wanna get too far ahead, but if it does, it’s gonna be like in that like upper tier, like greatest shows of all time list for me. [01:01:42] Brett: In completely other news, part party down. Got a whole [01:01:46] Christina: Yes it did. I love it. [01:01:48] Brett: It was so [01:01:49] Christina: It was so good. I missed Lizzie Kaplan, but I loved [01:01:51] Brett: I know, I, I, I want it, I want more. I hope it’s not done yet. [01:01:57] Christina: It’s so hard for them, right? It’s, it’s, it’s the [01:02:00] arrest development problem. Like, it’s like when you don’t have people under contract. Like, how do you get ’em all back together again? I mean, single drunk female had a similar problem and like, they lost, um, the actress who played, um, the, um, the sponsor because she got another show. [01:02:16] Christina: Like, it, it’s so hard with these streaming, it’s even harder with streaming shows because you don’t necessarily know how they’re gonna be. And so like, you can’t, you can’t sign people to like long contracts the same way. But I hope they’re able to get everybody back together from like some, uh, like just give us a reunion. [01:02:32] Christina: You know, give us like a two hour movie, right? Like, like that. Like that would be great. Like that. That way we can bring Lizzie Kaplan back. We can have the whole gang there. Like, [01:02:41] Brett: I do not know the actor’s name, but he was on, um, Silicon Valley and he plays the sci-fi, the hard sci-fi [01:02:50] Christina: Martin Star. Martin Star, [01:02:52] Brett: Martin Martin Star. [01:02:53] Christina: he was from Freaks and Geeks. He’s great. [01:02:55] Brett: yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. He deserves, he deserves Wibo credit [01:02:59] Christina: [01:03:00] Oh, I totally agree. No, he’s fantastic. And then, um, the, the, the Jimbo, um, I can’t remember his character’s name, but the actor’s name is Kyle something, but he, uh, um, he was on, um, he was on another show created by the creator party down called Veronica Mars, where [01:03:14] Brett: Oh my God. Yeah, that’s right. [01:03:16] Christina: And um, yeah, there are a lot of former Veronica Mars people, uh, in that universe. [01:03:21] Christina: And, um, anyway, I’ve always, I always loved him. He and Jane Lynch’s, um, dynamic together. It was always so great. [01:03:28] Brett: His, his, his band did a song called My Struggle, which is how mind comp is translated, and he talks about, uh, he, he was trying to talk about like being a Hollywood star, but he said like in the lyrics, he’s like, they give you a star and they put you on a train, and it was. Just straight up Nazi lyrics. [01:03:56] Brett: And then he’s wondering why he has a Nazi. It’s so, it’s [01:04:00] just fucking comedy gold. [01:04:01] Christina: So good. [01:04:02] Grapptitude [01:04:02] Brett: Um, should we do some gratitude? [01:04:05] Christina: let’s do some gratitude. [01:04:07] Brett: All right. I have two options that I’m still trying to narrow down. Do you have one you wanna start with? [01:04:15] Christina: Okay. So I’m trying to think, um, I’ve had one that I found the other day and I’m trying to find it now. Oh yeah. It’s called, um, uh, short Cat [01:04:27] Brett: Oh my God, yes. [01:04:29] Christina: I love Short Cat. Uh, short Cat is, uh, find it, it’s a, like a, they describe itself as a, as a universal, um, command palette for your Mac. And it basically lets you, uh, as, look, we’re big fans of the keyboard here at Overtired. [01:04:46] Christina: We’re big fans of, uh, you know, not having to use your mouse. And I like the mouse. And I like my, um, [01:04:51] Brett: I love my track [01:04:52] Christina: I, yeah, I, I was gonna say I love my magic track pad and I have a really nice mouse as well. Not opposed to that, but it is really nice to like, A lot of times, like you’re in the [01:05:00] zone, like being on your, um, uh, keyboard and so short cat indexes the, I’m reading from the website here cuz this is actually a good description. [01:05:08] Christina: Uh, also a plus for them, they have a very good website describing exactly what it does, is that it indexes your, your max user interface and then you can, um, it makes those options available to you in a powerful command pallet. So you can, you know, um, click on buttons, focus on text fields, and do other commands without having to use the mouse. [01:05:26] Christina: Um, and I really, really like it. I think it’s a, it works in your browser, it works with electron apps. Let’s use insertion menus. Um, it, it’s really, really good. Uh, you can, um, it’s, it’s available, uh, through Home Brew. So you just brew, install Short Cat and, um, you could also like download it off their website, uh, short cat.com, uh, dot app. [01:05:48] Christina: And I’m, I’m just a really, really big fan of this. Uh, I think it’s just a, a really, really good app. Um, and, uh, That, that that’s my tip. That, that’s my pick. I, I’ve been using this since [01:06:00] last year. I don’t remember when I discovered it. I guess I discovered it not long after it came out. Um, no, that’s not true. [01:06:04] Christina: It’s [01:06:05] Brett: Oh, it’s been out for a while. [01:06:06] Christina: Okay. It’s been out for a really long time. I didn’t discover it, I guess, until it had kind of been rewritten. So, yes. So last year, this is what it was last year, they, uh, released a first release of a from scratch rewrite. Um, and that came out in, in June of, of 2022. And that was, I think when I started using it. [01:06:23] Christina: And so, uh, but, but it goes all the way back to 2012. Um, so, um, great app [01:06:31] Brett: Yeah, it, it is. I’ve always been fascinated by it. I’ve never gotten into using it. Um, the app that filled my need was called Polero, um, which is available on Set app, and it gives you a command shift. P like you were in, you know, your favorite, i d e command shift P gives you access to anything that shows up in the menu. [01:06:57] Brett: Short Cat is great because it, it reads [01:07:00] all of the accessibility options for an app and, and like you said, can do, it can focus. Fields and, and click buttons that aren’t part of the menu. Uh, Pletcher just gives you, uh, pop-up access to any menu item, uh, which fits most of my needs. And I love it when I, when I can’t remember the shortcut for a menu item, I just hit command shift p in any app and, and I get access to the menu. [01:07:33] Brett: But yeah, shortcut has blown me away with its capabilities. It’s never become like, uh, uh, a muscle memory kind of shortcut for me, [01:07:45] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t use it for everything, but I have it installed and it’s one of those things that like when I’ve needed something, like it’s one of those things that I like to be able to Oh, right, that’s right. I have this here and, and I can use this and, and I do appreciate that it works, you know, with so many different apps types, because some of [01:08:00] these things do have a hard time with the electron apps. [01:08:02] Christina: Um, and, and the fact that it works with them is great because that means that I can do it in one password and in BS code and in other electron apps that like, sorry, I know that a lot of people hate on Electron, but there are a lot of really good electron apps out there. So, um, we’ll put both Platero and, uh, short Cat in the show notes. [01:08:20] Christina: Um, do you, uh, do, do you know which one you wanna pick? Look, Jeff isn’t here, so you could technically pick both. [01:08:26] Brett: Um, do one for Jeff. Um, no, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go with, I’m gonna save this one for, uh, let me make a quick note that this is my next one, but for this week I’m gonna go with Net Newswire. Um, I, so. My site traffic over the last couple years has gone down and it’s gone down by, it’s gone from about 21,000 hits a week to [01:09:00] 8,000, which is significant. [01:09:02] Brett: And I was under the impression that the algorithm was doing me dirty, um, that people just weren’t getting their news the way they used to. And for the first time in a few months, um, I thought I’ll check my, well, actually, for the first time in a year, honestly, um, I thought I’ll check my subscriber stats cuz I use feed press for my r s s feeds, uh, which gives me stats on how many people are subscribed to my r s s feed. [01:09:37] Brett: Turns out my r s s feed had grown by more subscribers than I had lost in traffic. So, so right now I have 35,000 subscribers to my r s s feed. Um, and when I, I got a bunch of new followers on Macedon after my last post, and I was like, [01:10:00] just curious, uh, out of the, you know, multiple dozens of people who just followed me. [01:10:07] Brett: How did you find me? And they’re all, like, I read your blog through rss, RSS R s s, which is amazing. RSS is making a comeback after Google Reader, like, brought it to its knees for a [01:10:21] Christina: than a decade, more than a decade ago. Like Google killed, um, Google Reader, um, 11 years ago [01:10:26] Brett: Yeah. And, and now r s s [01:10:28] Christina: or 10 years ago. Sorry. It happened. It was, it was like, we’re coming up on like the, the 10th anniversary, I think, but [01:10:33] Brett: it’s for real. Back though. Um, I went into my reader stats and by far the most popular r s s. Reader that was giving me stats was Net Newswire. Um, and I personally, that’s what I use. Um, I am a fan of apps like Reed Kit and Reader, but Net Newswire once it was under new [01:11:00] management and I don’t remember who, Brent Simmons, [01:11:03] Christina: Sprint Simmons. Yeah. So, so, so, so he, he created it and then, um, he worked at a company called News Gator who took it over. And, and then, um, also the guy who created the, like the, the Windows version, which was like the Feed Demon, I think it was, was also part of News Gator. And then it kind of went away, and then he was able to buy back, like the name and, and the, the, you know, copyright or whatever. [01:11:27] Christina: And then he re-released it. Um, and it’s completely open source now, which is what’s brilliant. [01:11:32] Brett: Yeah. And it’s not the most full featured r s s app, but it does exactly what it needs to do. And it does it, it does it perfectly [01:11:42] Christina: No, I totally agree. Like I said, I like, I like some of the apps like Reader and Read Kit too. Read Kit has been around for a long time and I think they just recently released a new version and they’ve done some, some good stuff with it and, and, and Reader, um, is, is always had a really nice interface. [01:11:54] Christina: I [01:11:54] Brett: And it’s beautiful. Yeah. [01:11:56] Christina: use Feed Bin as my, um, like syncing service [01:12:00] and um, their web app is actually great. And so in some cases, you know, cuz like, as I’ve said many times, like, as much as I kind of hate this in some cases, like the web one and, and like the, the feed bin website is really good. But I totally agree with you, like Net Newswire is a great app. [01:12:15] Christina: It also is a great iOS app. Um, I primarily use it on Mac. Um, but, um, I, yeah, I totally agree. I think that it’s just, um, the fact that it’s still being kind of developed and, and that I I love that. I love that it’s on GitHub. I love that it’s open source. Like that to me really is, uh, I think like it represents the best of how kind of these indie apps can exist today. [01:12:39] Christina: Because unfortunately, like these are niche things. Like I’m glad that the traffic is coming back and that more people are getting into rss, especially for like your audience. But, but it is, you know, like not, uh, unfortunately, it, it, what sucks with Google reader now being dead for 10 years. I think it, July 1st is I think the cutoff date, but like [01:13:00] Google had announced that like March of 2020 of 2013. [01:13:04] Christina: And, and so we’re coming up in like 10 years without it. Um, is that you have a whole generation of users who don’t even really know, you know what I mean? And so in some cases they’re, they have to rediscover and like relearn, like, oh, You mean there’s this way I can subscribe to all my favorite feeds. [01:13:20] Brett: right. I think it’s time. I think it’s time for people to rediscover rss and like I said, obviously it is happening. Uh, but for anyone who has long depended on social media to surface articles of interest, dude, r s s gives you the ability when you read an article that you’re like, yes, I agree with this author. [01:13:45] Brett: They have provided me with very interesting information and news. You can follow them and you can have in one place all of the feeds that you personally trust and find of [01:14:00] interest. And you can have all of that surface using r s s. And it’s, it stands for really simple syndication, and it literally is, it’s just a way to follow news that you trust and that matters to you. [01:14:14] Brett: And every day you get a new menu of the latest articles, and it is way better than any quote unquote algorithm designed to put content in front of you. [01:14:26] Christina: I agree. The only one I miss from r s s services, I miss Fever. Fever was my [01:14:31] Brett: Oh my God. Yeah. [01:14:32] Christina: fever, was a self-hosted r s s client. And, and I actually moved away from Google Reader to using Fever [01:14:38] Brett: What happened to Sean Inman? Is he still [01:14:41] Christina: I, I don’t know, he, he’d started making games. I know his mom had been sick and, and then he, he’d switched his focus from like software to, to games. [01:14:49] Christina: Um, yeah, I just pulled up his website. Um, [01:14:52] Brett: Because he also did mint analytics, which was fantastic. [01:14:56] Christina: fantastic. And he did a, um, uh, what was it, Quip? Not [01:15:00] Quip, uh uh, quicks Quicks, which was great. And then, um, and he had, uh, he had like, um, what was it? Uh, I think it was like a shortwave or something, which was like a l shortener, shortened, something like that. [01:15:10] Christina: But he, he had a lot of things. Um, and so, uh, yeah, his last blog post was April, 2020. Um, and, and so, um, I, I, I don’t know what he’s up to. I hope he’s doing well because I, because I, he was a genius because his, his shit was like the best, and, and Fever was, was my favorite because what was great about Fever was that it was, it would basically, um, kind of rank, um, articles based on like how many times somebody else had linked to it, like within your feeds. [01:15:45] Christina: And so you kind of had like a, [01:15:46] Brett: Within your, within your chosen feeds, the articles that you wanted to read anyway, it could rank what was hot and what was not. And if you have a hundred feeds, you can’t keep up with those on a [01:16:00] day-to-day basis and fever like surface the content that was most important and it was brilliant. [01:16:05] Christina: It was brilliant. Yeah, I was gonna say it was, it was very similar to like, what, what, uh, what, uh, what was it, uh, um, nimble or whatever, like the, uh, the, um, the, the, the iOS, the kind kind of Twitter thing that a lot of people used to kind of keep track of, like what the top like, um, links shared across their followers were like, it was like that, but it was for rss it was great. [01:16:26] Christina: And, and I used that for a really long time. I had a, um, I had a single site, um, uh, app, um, for Fever back in the day. And, um, like, uh, I, I loved that, but it, um, yeah, I agree. Like rss, I will say this, the only thing I run into sometimes it’s gotten better, fortunately over the last couple of years, but there was a period of time and it’s still not great, where a lot of times, like by default, websites will hide the r s s feed. [01:16:52] Christina: Or if they won’t have an RSS option at all. So if you are creating content, I, I cannot stress enough, like if you have a website, like make sure that you [01:17:00] make the RSS discoverable. Don’t hide that because like, I think even, [01:17:03] Brett: do it. You can do it with meta, you can do it in the meta of your website. You don’t have to have a subscribe button on your main page. You can make it discoverable. It just takes that extra effort to put a link tag in your meta. [01:17:19] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say, cause I think that WordPress by default now, doesn’t like do it the same way that they used to. And so, yeah. And so, you know, um, all of that might go away. I mean, I’m hopeful with Activity Pub that that’s gonna get more people into the idea of rss because they are all interconnected. [01:17:38] Christina: And, and so I hope as more people start, you know, looking at those types of protocols, people will. We can bring RSS back. Um, it was really, you know, the downside of, uh, uh, speaking of feed bin, they’d had a way where you could subscribe to Twitter feeds. Um, and that’s dead now because of the a p i changes. [01:17:57] Christina: Your existing subscriptions still work, but the new [01:18:00] ones won’t happen. Um, there might be some third, uh, party workarounds, but, um, yeah. Uh, but, but yeah, net Newswire is a great app if you’re looking for, for, you know, keeping track of, of all your stuff. So yeah. Great, great pick. [01:18:16] Brett: Alright. Dude, just the two of us pulled off over an hour of an episode. [01:18:22] Christina: love it. [01:18:23] Brett: Who’s that? Jeff Guy Anyway, [01:18:25] Christina: we miss him. We miss you, Jeff. Um, he’ll, he’ll be back for our next one. And, uh, next time I talk to you guys, um, I, I will have to figure out when we’re recording because I will be in Atlanta and I’ll be like on a Taylor Swift hangover. So next time we talk I will be like giving you all the dets on, uh, on, on the Arrows Tour. [01:18:44] Brett: the The what? [01:18:46] Christina: ERAS tour. [01:18:47] Brett: Oh, I thought you said the aero store. [01:18:50] Christina: sorry, sorry. Eras. E r a s tour. Yeah. I’m not, I’m not annunciating that Well, it’s also hard to that, that, that’s a hard thing to say. The Taylor Swift [01:18:58] Brett: Tour the Aris [01:19:00] tour. All right. Well, Christina, great to see you. Great to catch up. Get some [01:19:05] Christina: get some sleep, Brett.

All three hosts are back this week, and the discussion ranges from favorite bookstores to favorite window managers, with a healthy dose of mental health in between. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. The hosts of Techmeme Drive Home read all of the latest tech news so they can keep you up to date on the latest. Tune in every day for a full rundown of tech news with context and analysis. Show Links Drury Lane Bookstore Literati Books (Brett forgot, it’s in Ann Arbor, not Chicago. Chicago was where he went to a really fun sex toy store.) Strand bookstore Powell’s Books Spotlight Infinite Zero (Rollins/Ruben) Stressed out, busy moms say microdosing mushrooms makes life easier and brighter Viticci stage manager CodeRunner CodeRunner on Setapp Find which of your favorite apps are on Setapp SwiftDefaultApps Grammarly Business Moom Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Fire the Stage Manager! [00:00:00] Intro: Tired. So tired, Overtired. [00:00:04] Christina: You are listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren, and I am joined as always by Brett. Uh, by Brett Terpstra. I was gonna say Brett Severns. Guntzel. Uh, would be, which would be funny. Now [00:00:15] Jeffrey: Big news. [00:00:16] Christina: News. Your two favorite podcast host got married? No, uh, by Jeff Severns. Guntzel and Bre Terpstra. [00:00:23] Christina: How are you guys doing? [00:00:24] Brett: So well tired, but good. [00:00:27] Jeffrey: I, uh, I tore my meniscus at, um, at a bookstore, [00:00:35] Brett: What, uh, what, what bookstore [00:00:37] Jeffrey: uh, I [00:00:38] Jeffrey: was [00:00:38] Brett: a bookstore over the Jungle Gym? [00:00:40] Jeffrey: no. Every bookstore I realize is ableist because you can’t get down to that bottom shelf if. You know, if you have any trouble like squatting or bending over or eye problems, whatever. So I was, I was at Dreary Lane Books in Grand Moray, Minnesota, which is right on Lake Superior. [00:00:57] Jeffrey: It’s an amazing, tiny, [00:01:00] independent bookstore. And it is a great example of how good curation can make a small bookstore feel big. And I like to go there. We go there every spring break, uh, to Grand Mare. And I like to go to that bookstore and look at every book, um, just scan every shelf. And I was squatting down to scan the bottom shelf and something July 4th like happened in my left knee and I tipped over. [00:01:26] Christina: Oh no. [00:01:29] Jeffrey: And then a couple days later when I’m home, it swelled up super bad. And I went to, by the way, orthopedic Urgent Care. Right. That’s a thing. And. And that is amazing. And if you go to the rich suburbs, uh, nobody’s there. And so you get right in. So anyway, how am I doing? I’m actually doing good, but my knee hurts and I, I, uh, it’s been pointed out that it’s a, it’s the nerdiest thing ever to tear it at a bookstore. [00:01:55] Christina: Well, [00:01:56] Brett: the show notes, what was the name of that book? [00:01:58] Jeffrey: Uh, Drury [00:02:00] Lane. D r u r y. Like the muffin man. Yep, exactly. [00:02:05] Brett: Yeah, I, I, I figured it’s, I love independent bookstores, so, we’ll, we’ll put ’em in the show notes. Maybe, maybe someone will be like, Hey, I want to go to the place where Jeff, uh, Torres Meniscus, [00:02:16] Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah. [00:02:17] Brett: if you, have you guys ever been to literati in Chicago? [00:02:22] Jeffrey: God, I lived in Chicago, but no, when, how long has it been [00:02:24] Brett: I have no idea. A while, but I don’t know, at least five years, maybe 20 for all I know. But great bookstore, So quick note from the editor. The bookstore I’m talking about here is actually in Ann Arbor, and I visited on the same trip as I went to Chicago and I mix up my locations. But the reason Jeff had never heard of it is because it’s in Michigan. [00:02:47] Christina: no. The one, the ones that I know, and I know Seattle has some, but I’m gonna be honest with you, Seattle’s a city kind of sucks and. [00:02:53] Brett: has, [00:02:54] Christina: Portland has Powells. I, yeah, [00:02:56] Jeffrey: they have [00:02:56] Christina: say, I was gonna say, Portland has Powells and then in New York it’s Strand [00:03:00] and, and that’s just like the best, um, like [00:03:04] Jeffrey: I was just getting into this with someone like Powells is Strand, but better somehow. [00:03:09] Christina: Yeah, agreed. But, but, but it’s one of those things like, like, like the strand was like not far from where I worked. So I might [00:03:16] Jeffrey: Yeah. Amazing. [00:03:17] Mental Health Corner [00:03:17] Christina: I might have told the story before, but I had this, it was like the greatest day ever where, and it didn’t start out that way. Uh, I think this is actually a good segue to Mental health Corner. [00:03:25] Christina: I got off the subway, it was like 8 45 in the morning, which for me was early cuz I never got to work like in time for the 9:00 AM meeting. That was just sort of a known thing that I was gonna either be on the call or I’d be coming in late. Cuz like, I just didn’t, I just was not a morning person. So unless I was on TV at. [00:03:44] Christina: 7:00 AM or 6:00 AM or something. I was not in the office early, get off the subway, and I just like had this overwhelming sense of dread and I was like, I can’t do it today. I can’t do it. I can’t go in, I can’t do it. And so I made up an [00:04:00] excuse because back then, and this was like six years ago, like you quit seven years ago. [00:04:04] Christina: Like you couldn’t say, oh, I’m having a mental, I need a mental health day. [00:04:08] Christina: So, um, I get, I, I make up an excuse, like I was like, oh, I just threw up or something or another. I was like, I’ve gotta go back home. But instead of going back home, I was like, I don’t really wanna go back home. [00:04:20] Christina: I know I can’t do anything else. Like, uh, like I can’t do work today, but I don’t know what else I could do. So I went to the Strand and I walked around and like, as soon as it opened, like I had to wait like a couple minutes and I walked around there for a while. I wound up buying a couple of books and then I found like a 10:00 AM showing of, of, of Spotlight, like, cuz that was in theaters then at, at, at the, at the, uh, Regal In in Union [00:04:43] Jeffrey: Is that the one about the Boston Globe’s coverage of the sex scandals in the church. [00:04:47] Christina: Yes. And it’s a, just a fantastic journalism movie and it’s just a great movie all around. So I see that movie at like 10:00 AM in a fairly empty theater. And keep in mind, I’m, I’m within blocks of my office, so I, at this point I’m like, Hmm, [00:05:00] I got lunch, but I was like, Hmm, you’re gonna have to go home because somebody will see you. [00:05:05] Christina: So then I like went to Prospect Park for the afternoon and then I went home and it was like the greatest day. [00:05:11] Jeffrey: That’s nice. That’s [00:05:13] Christina: like I, I, I played hooky, but it was like it was much needed. And then like, I, I was able to come back to work like the next day and like actually be able to function. So, [00:05:21] Jeffrey: I, in my experience in New York, we lived there for like three or four years. Like those days where you’re like, fuck it, I’m walking around. Like it’s got that sort of Ferris Bueller’s whimsy to it, you know? It’s such cuz you can go anywhere and you can do any kind of thing and it’s so great. Anyway. I love that. [00:05:38] Christina: Anyway, so that, that’s, that, that’s my like bookstore slash mental health Treat yourself story. Go, go, go to a bookstore. Go to the go, go to the movies, go to the park. [00:05:50] Jeffrey: Yes. The. Oh man. So I used to work in warehouses. It’s pretty hard to feel bad about calling in sick to a warehouse. Um, [00:06:00] and I did one day and it was a, it was a music distribution warehouse. It primarily distributed independent labels related to, or adjacent to reco disk, which had like Frank Zappas whole catalog. [00:06:12] Jeffrey: And they had like evidence, which had like sunrise whole catalog. It was just an amazing warehouse and we would get amazing visitors. Henry Rollins came once to talk to us when he, he started this really cool label with Rick Rubin called Infinite Zero back in like 96 or seven. And it was just meant to get stuff back into print that was most important to just the two of them. [00:06:32] Jeffrey: Um, and Henry Rollins, for all the weirdness of that dude came and addressed just the warehouse workers to tell us how much these albums and these CDs mean to him and how grateful he is that we’re helping to get them out into the world. That is classy. [00:06:49] Christina: Yeah, it is. [00:06:51] Jeffrey: And then, and then the other thing that happened was I called in sick one day and I learned at the end of the [00:07:00] day that Bootsy fucking Collins had visited the [00:07:03] Brett: Oh, do you miss [00:07:05] Jeffrey: who was a hero of mine. Going back to when I was a kid, that was my first concert, was Parliament Funkadelic like, and I loved him so much and I was so sad. And I have an autographed CD thanks to my friend Joe, but it doesn’t feel good. just reminds [00:07:22] Jeffrey: me [00:07:23] Christina: weren’t there. [00:07:24] Jeffrey: I wasn’t doing anything wrong. It was a shitty warehouse job. Like I shouldn’t have been punished like that. [00:07:28] Jeffrey: Bootsy Collins. I could have shook his hand. I could have just heard him, you know, talking. Yay. [00:07:33] Brett: then you, you never missed another day again after [00:07:36] Jeffrey: Yeah, no, I got fired about two weeks later. I, I, uh, I was, I was, uh, the first strike was the president of the company came into the warehouse and there was a vending machine right next to the door. And I was on the floor with my arm all the way up the vending machine trying to get a candy bar. [00:07:54] Jeffrey: And he just looks at me and he goes, get out of there. And then a couple weeks after that, I organized a [00:08:00] pallet jack race where we would all just like, you could use ’em like scooters and the corporate meeting offices look down over the warehouse. And at one point I see in that window, like the entire administration leadership looking down on us, just like shaking their heads. [00:08:15] Jeffrey: And so anyway, eventually I got fired, which was the right, right thing for them to do. Um, and, uh, anyhow, call in sick days. [00:08:25] Brett: Sick days. Mental [00:08:26] Jeffrey: I don’t have to do that anymore. [00:08:28] Brett: All right, so speaking of mental health days, um, I, should I start, I. [00:08:35] Jeffrey: Do it. I just wanna point out that Brett is talking to us as his cat is in the foreground, staring at him. [00:08:41] Brett: staring me down. [00:08:43] Christina: and and I’m like, I love your cat so much anyways. All right. Go on. [00:08:46] Jeffrey: What are we talking about, Brett? [00:08:47] Brett: okay, so the, the first update I have is, um, a week of microdosing mushrooms. Um, I wrote a blog post about this, [00:09:00] um, and things were going really well, uh, except l l did not appreciate that I was so publicly putting illegal substance use out on the internet where it could be linked forever. [00:09:14] Brett: And, um, so I, I. Redacted the post. And, uh, I put up like a, Hey, you know, when things are decriminalized, I’ll tell you more about this, but I think it’s okay to talk about here. Maybe you won’t put anything in this show notes, but, um, I, I found the right dosage of the, the current strain of mushrooms I’m getting is about 200 milligrams a day. [00:09:39] Brett: And at that dosage, um, like there’s no, no visuals, uh, y you don’t feel like you’re tripping at all. Like, that’s not the point. Um, but, uh, definite mood elevation, definite attention, um, improvements. And, uh, I feel emotions, a wider range of emotions than I usually [00:10:00] do. I get, I get more excited and more empathetic and, uh, it, it, it was going really well and it wasn’t causing any mania. [00:10:10] Brett: But then I had this snafu where, so I went to the hospital back in December. With cuz my watch told me right, that, that my heart rate was elevated. And then, uh, the doctor at the last time, I got a refill for the first time, she’s like, I can’t give you a refill on Vivance until I hear from your doctor. And my doctor does not respond to messages or emails or calls even. [00:10:42] Brett: Uh, the only way I’ve ever talked to him is to see him in person. Um, so fortunately I had a meeting, uh, an appointment coming up soon and I did, I went to see him after I had been off five for about three days. And he said, there’s no problem. Uh, like it was a [00:11:00] fluke that you were in the hospital. There’s no reason to stop your meds. [00:11:03] Brett: And most cardiac events, uh, aren’t exacerbated by stimulants anyway. Um, So, uh, he, he, he said, sure, go ahead, uh, continue the Vince, I go back to my doctor who as I’ve mentioned before, is moving to another practice. And the in between her denying my refill and me getting approval from the doctor, she had officially left the practice and discharged me as a patient and could no longer fill my prescription. [00:11:32] Brett: And so the only option was to go back to my doctor and ask him to fill it until I can see her again. And like I said, he doesn’t respond to anything, so I didn’t have a lot of hope. Um, I, I sent a message through the portal and I made a phone call and talked to a sympathetic nurse, and a day later he did come through and I got my Viva. [00:11:54] Brett: But when I’m off Vivance for a few days and I take it, boom, manic episode. [00:12:00] So Thursday night I didn’t sleep at all. Um, released a whole new project. It, I love it. It’s great. Um, but. [00:12:09] Jeffrey: I am not caught up on that. [00:12:10] Brett: Yeah, I haven’t written about it yet. You’ll see it soon. Um, but in the, in, I slept last night, uh, pretty well. I think the manic episode was short-lived. [00:12:22] Brett: Um, I don’t seem to be manic today, so it was like a one day cyc cyclo theia kind of event. So that’s where I’m at now. Coming, coming off a manic episode, have my vivance back, um, learning more and more about microdosing and getting really good results from it. To summarize, in summary, [00:12:46] Jeffrey: That’s. Great. I was just talking to my cousin the other night about, uh, his experience microdosing and it’s super frustrating how far ahead of the laws, um, this particular thing is. You know, it’s [00:13:00] like really frustrating cuz it’s technically schedule one. It’s illegal to have, but everybody I know who has tried it and it’s five, six people have only reported for them very positive effects. [00:13:13] Jeffrey: And that’s just, that’s a small sample [00:13:15] Brett: I mean the, the medical community though is very much interested in decriminalizing hallucinogenics so that they can continue what have proven to be very hopeful studies thus far. I think Washington, is it Washington that allows me medical use of mushrooms. [00:13:34] Christina: I think so. I think so. I, I, I don’t know the details, if that sounds right, because most things [00:13:40] Brett: I know there’s at least one state that lifted the ban on [00:13:43] Christina: it might be Colorado, [00:13:44] Brett: and maybe acid, maybe it was Colorado. They were, they were leaders in the weed decriminalization. [00:13:50] Jeffrey: I think it is. In fact, I’m, I’m looking at a Colorado public radio story called Stressed Out. Busy Moms say Microdosing mushrooms makes life easier [00:14:00] and brighter. Um, and it is, yeah, it’s, it’s great. And I just wanna read one of these sentences, mommies, who microdose are among the fastest growing groups of followers send us mommies, who microdose and, and also the photos in this are by my old colleague, Hart Vandenberg, who’s a wonderful photographer and a wonderful man. [00:14:18] Jeffrey: I put it in the show notes. [00:14:20] Christina: here. All right. He here. Here’s where it’s decriminalized. It is decriminalized. And, and this is according to the Wikipedia page, which is the status of psycho, uh, cylo mushrooms. Um, and then they have like possession sale, transport, cultivation, and then the notes. And so the United States just for possession. [00:14:37] Christina: Sorry, let me scroll down to where this is. I really do hate Wikipedia as the, the way they do tables, honestly. Um, in the future, I will use chat g p T for this because I bet it will be in a, in a prettier way. All right. It is illegal, but decriminalized in Seattle, Washington, and Arbor, Michigan. Oakland and Santa Cruz, California, [00:15:00] Summerville and Cambridge, Massachusetts, Oregon. [00:15:02] Christina: So the whole state of Oregon and Washington, DC and it’s legal in Colorado, [00:15:07] Brett: All [00:15:07] Jeffrey: Oh, okay. [00:15:09] Christina: decriminalized in Seattle. Um, but, but it’s interesting that it’s just Seattle. So I’m like, okay, is it just the city of Seattle? Is it like the other, probably is just the city. Um, and, and it’s decriminalized in Ann Arbor because, you know, you gotta, you got, you, you gotta like let the, the, the rich like coy toy folks, um, have access, but also, I mean, honestly makes sense I guess from like a medical [00:15:33] Brett: It’s a, it’s a big, yeah, it’s a big college town with a big medical program, [00:15:38] Christina: right? Yeah. That, that’s what I’m saying. So that, that makes sense. Ok. Oakland and Santa Cruz. Santa Cruz. I can see Oakland feels a little Okay. Um. Because there’s not, it’s not like there are good hospitals in Oakland. There are good hospitals in Palo Alto. Uh, there are good hospitals in San Francisco. I don’t know if there are good hospitals in Oakland. [00:15:56] Christina: Um, [00:15:57] Jeffrey: There’s gotta be good hospitals in Oakland.[00:16:00] [00:16:00] Christina: I, I, I, I don’t think so, but, but I will let [00:16:03] Jeffrey: Fuck you Oakland. [00:16:04] Christina: I will let listeners correct me. Um, what I’m sure is wrong, uh, Summerville and Cambridge, so, you know, Cambridge makes, makes sense. All of Decriminalize, all of Oregon and Washington, DC within Colorado is just like fucking legal dude. We don’t care. [00:16:17] Brett: I, it’s, it’s so weird that it’s by and large, so like city by city, like, is it just that hard to get state legislation passed that the cities, the city’s real, like, we’ll, just within our, with our, within our borders. You’re [00:16:31] Christina: Probably, and, well, I don’t know, like in Washington, in Washington state, I feel like it’s something they could probably get passed, but I don’t know. But I also know the, the, the Seattle City Council, who’s I hate. And I, I think that they’re completely like incompetent and I’m so glad that the piece of shit, um, city councilwoman is not running again. [00:16:55] Christina: Um, sorry, uh, to people who are, are fans of, uh, uh, [00:17:00] Kshama, um, Saan, but she fucking sucks. Um, but [00:17:04] Jeffrey: coming after everybody Oakland, the city council. [00:17:07] Christina: mostly just Seattle. I’ve just been pissed off at Seattle for the last couple of weeks to be totally honest with you. Um, but, uh, but, but my, my city councilwoman is a, she fucking sucks. [00:17:16] Christina: She’s the fucking worst person in the world. Um, she’s like the, she, she, she’s the person who makes all socialists like, look bad because she’s such like a, like a, a, a, she’s so left. She’s like, it goes into just like a, it, it, it goes into parody status and literally like makes everything that we fight for like harder because of assholes like her. [00:17:37] Christina: Um, but, uh, I, I, I can see it having no problem getting past in, in Seattle City Council. I would think they could do it statewide though. Maybe it just takes more time. I don’t know. [00:17:50] Brett: Minnesota still hasn’t legalized weed, but we can have [00:17:53] Jeffrey: We’re close. [00:17:54] Brett: Yeah, [00:17:55] Jeffrey: Yeah, it’s, it’s pretty much, I mean, we have a completely Democratic government at this point, [00:18:00] and so it’s one of those things that’s just gonna kind of slide right through. [00:18:03] Christina: Yeah. I, I read this, this deranged National Review article this week from some, like, I felt very sad for the family, but that was just like, wow, you guys are completely taking this out of like blaming the wrong thing who are going on this anti, like, legalization of marijuana scheme because their schizophrenic daughter who overdosed, it’s very sad. [00:18:23] Christina: They blame her schizophrenia on the fact that she like smoked weed in college. [00:18:27] Brett: huh? [00:18:28] Christina: it’s like, [00:18:29] Brett: Is that legit? [00:18:31] Jeffrey: That’s not what they mean when they say gateway. [00:18:32] Christina: that’s, that, that, that is legit. [00:18:34] Brett: I’m told that my drug use may have caused my bipolar. Um, it, it, there are other members in my, on my mom’s side of the family that had bipolar, um, all of which are dead now. But, um, I was told by both my therapist and my psychiatrist that drug use, uh, in a young brain can lead to [00:19:00] complications such as bipolar disorder. [00:19:02] Christina: I, I think, and I don’t know cause I’m not a doctor, but the studies and the things I’ve read are that if you have something that’s latent that’s already there, it, it’s possible that drug use at a young agent, it depends on the drug and, and, and marijuana. I think that there’s, there’s some dis, you know, there’s some confusion about this. [00:19:19] Christina: I think it would have to be a lot, and I think that it would have to be a very specific circumstance. Could be the thing that could like maybe. Like set someone off, like unlock what’s already there. But I think that it’s like a, a massive reach to be like, this caused it, because as you said, like you’ve got other members in your family, you don’t know whether they did, you know, drugs or, or, or not. [00:19:40] Christina: But it could also even come down to like, well this could be, you know, medications that you’re on. Um, could do things too. I think there’s some people who might be, you could make an argument, are predisposed, um, to cer to developing certain conditions. And maybe like drug use speeds it up, but, [00:19:58] Brett: I had bipolar [00:20:00] symptoms, uh, in high school and I didn’t really get into, I was, I was drinking in high school, but I didn’t really get into like any massive drug use until I was like 16. So my first couple years of high school, I was definitely displaying symptoms of mania and depression, uh, before [00:20:23] Christina: B before. Uh, there’s also, I think, an argument to be made that people who are, uh, you know, potentially, um, having symptoms might be seeking out drugs to [00:20:34] Brett: Oh yeah. Yeah. See, that’s the thing is when I, when I think about like my, my heroin addiction, um, it very much like I sought it out because of my, my mental kind of imbalances, my needs, um, like the need for dopamine and the need for a kick, and the need for a way to numb my feelings. Like it was all very much like my [00:21:00] mental health led to that kind of addiction. [00:21:04] Brett: I don’t think, I don’t think normal, happy people seek out heroin. [00:21:08] Christina: right. No, I, I don’t think, like, yeah, I mean, I, and, and I don’t know who does, I mean, like, I think maybe you’re bored, maybe you know, you don’t know whatnot. Like, because I, I’ve certainly done certain drugs when like had nothing to do with like the state of my mental health, which is like, okay, fuck it. [00:21:23] Brett: I wanted to do something dangerous. I get a real kick out of throwing caution to the wind. And I couldn’t think of anything more dangerous than, than doing hard drugs. [00:21:33] Christina: no, fair enough. [00:21:34] Brett: I get, it was real exciting. It still is. The thought of like, doing drugs is very much appealing to me. Like all of my bad experiences combined don’t make it any less appealing. [00:21:48] Christina: Is, is it that you know that you could die? Is it the risk factor? Like, or, or is it the taboo in it being illegal and dangerous? [00:21:54] Brett: it’s the taboo. And just knowing that it’s gonna feel really good and, and I can forget about [00:22:00] everything else for a little while. Not just problems, but forget about everything else and, and just focus on, on, you know, the drug. But [00:22:10] Jeffrey: Did you, did you watch, um, fear of the Walking Dead? [00:22:14] Christina: I did, I, I watched like the first few years. [00:22:18] Jeffrey: was, so this character Nick played by Frank Delaine, who’s just amazing in this role. Um, [00:22:24] Brett: right? [00:22:24] Christina: Yeah. [00:22:25] Jeffrey: and I, I was just curious if you had seen it, like there are all kinds of stages of his experience that get represented and he, I think he does a really powerful job of representing them. But there is this moment where he’s been almost like willing to be reckless when things are getting dangerous around his family. [00:22:43] Jeffrey: And, and there’s a point where I believe he has to sort of make a decision and, and his family’s, you know, urging him not to, and he makes this point of like, I’ve been close to death so many times, like I’ve died. You know, he’s like, I’m, I’m ready. But he talked about sort of how [00:23:00] he kind of hit at that thing, about the risk of it. [00:23:03] Jeffrey: Um, which is something that like, I don’t think people often understand about heroin addiction or heroin use is that, That sense of like walking up to the ultimate line potentially and not knowing how you’re gonna come out of it, is that, is that, I mean, does that resonate or is that kind of a fair reflection of [00:23:20] Brett: some extent. I just, I’ve never, like, I started thinking about my mortality at a very young age and, um, I think I just kind of accepted that I’m gonna die one way or another. And it wasn’t necessarily a thrill to like seek out death, but it didn’t, it didn’t scare me. So I don’t think, I don’t think that was a reason I did it. [00:23:43] Brett: I don’t think that was where the thrill came from. Um, but a side note, A D H D people, it’s, it’s been theorized that, um, we exist because in an evolutionary capacity, [00:24:00] um, A D H D people are the ones. Notice when things are wrong, fastest, and in situ, in pressure situations, we’re the ones that take control. [00:24:10] Brett: We’re the ones that are like, suddenly come into our own. We’re like, no, I got this. And we’re willing to take risks. We’re willing to do dumb things to like save the day. And like for like early man, and even, even early le even post Ad Man, like that kind of characteristic needed to exist within a community. [00:24:35] Brett: Uh, it’s less so now, now it’s more of a detriment, but like in especially a hunter gathered society, it, it makes a lot of sense. You would want, you would want the ADHD [00:24:45] Christina: you would want the person with, with, with the low impulse control. It’s so interesting cuz my adhd, like, I don’t have like lack of impulse control. Like that’s not one of my, that, that’s like not one of my symptoms. Uh, which is, um, which is interesting. I don’t think [00:25:00] that I’m not, and, and I’m not trying to like make this a across gendered lines because I just don’t know enough. [00:25:04] Christina: But I do wonder if, because there is a, whether it is, uh, genetic or, um, um, if it, if it’s like a, you know, sociological thing, you know, you see the difference a lot of times. Like, uh, and I know this from my mom, like you can observe very clearly little boys who have a D H D in the classroom. Like it’s very, very obvious little girls. [00:25:26] Christina: It’s not. Usually because they don’t have the same lack of impulse control. And I don’t know, like what the reason for that is. I don’t know, again, if it’s like a, you know, a, a genetic thing, like a chromosomal thing or if it’s just like a, a, a conditioning thing [00:25:41] Brett: yeah, no, I, it definitely presents differently in, in females [00:25:45] Christina: 100% like, like because, because the thing is is that I definitely was a lot more, and I wouldn’t say I had impulse control, I was just more like, I don’t give a fuck. Like when I, before I entered elementary school, I was definitely, like, my personality was definitely much more like, [00:26:00] um, outgoing and like, they called me the wild woman and I would like, do you know some things that you might, might strike you as, as, as impulse things. [00:26:09] Christina: But, but then I don’t even know how to like grip that cuz I’m like, okay, if you’re two years old, like, what, what, what does that mean? You know what I mean? Um, but um, I didn’t, I didn’t have any of the symptoms when I was in elementary school. People never would’ve thought that I was adhd, but then looking back at it and I’m like, oh, no, I, I had those things. [00:26:28] Christina: It’s just I was able to cope with it very well, and it was hidden. [00:26:31] Brett: well, yeah, [00:26:32] Christina: I don’t, I, I didn’t get diagnosed until I was, you know, like 15. [00:26:35] Brett: same with autism too. Like girls at a young age become better at masking symptoms than boys do. [00:26:43] Christina: Totally. Although I, I think like for my A D H D, it wasn’t even a masking thing per se. I mean, Like some, there were, there was some masking. I would mask my depression, but like I didn’t feel like I was masking, you know, like I, I remember when I got diagnosed I was like, this is insane. And it was [00:27:00] one of those things that, that I even like blamed. [00:27:02] Christina: It’s funny kind of going back to the topic, like I’ve been on Prozac and Prozac is the thing that seemed to kick off like the most overt a ADHD symptoms I’d ever had where I was no longer able to control if, if they’d been there before, like I would maybe put things off then I would maybe, you know, kind of get into scenarios where I would have to, you know, kind of crunch. [00:27:19] Christina: But I was always able to do it and it was never a problem. And then, Prozac, I was like literally unable to focus on anything. And I, I’ve never, I’ve never felt more like stereotypically ADHD in my life than like, when I was on that drug. And then even going off of it, it didn’t stop. And so there was, you know, like is not, you know, these things are not correlation. [00:27:41] Christina: Whatever correlation’s, not causation, whatever that the phrase is. But there was like a, an instinct where you wanna say, oh, this happened because of this, but like, I, I don’t think that would be an appropriate thing for me to be like, oh, I went on this antidepressant and that’s what caused my A D H D. [00:27:57] Christina: Like, because I can go back and I can [00:28:00] look at, oh no, I had these other latent things. Now did it exacerbate a thing that was already in my mind and maybe have it present itself earlier and were acute. Than it would have otherwise. Sure. Um, but like, I, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say that we need to ban Prozac the same way. [00:28:17] Christina: You know, like, again, I guess awful as I feel for the, the, the individual family whose, you know, daughter, like, went from being seemingly perfect to having schizophrenia and then dying. It’s like, you know, she was, she was schizophrenic. She wasn’t going to be okay if she’d never smoked pot, you know? [00:28:35] Brett: yeah. Yeah. That’s really interesting, uh, that, that Prozac connection though, [00:28:40] Christina: Yeah. [00:28:41] Brett: that’s not a, that’s not a side effect I’ve ever heard [00:28:43] Christina: no, and, and it’s not one that anybody else has ever seen, but it was so acute. It was literally like an overnight thing. Like it was literally a, a like, you, you’re taking this drug and a complete important, a comport, an important component of your personality completely changes. [00:28:58] Brett: Doesn’t Prozac [00:29:00] have like a one month titration period? Like I, I’d be curious like what, what chemical reaction happened? Uh, because like for depression, you don’t even see depression symptoms get better for, I think it’s a month. [00:29:14] Christina: It depends. And, and I’m very sensitive to medication, um, especially in SSRIs, which is why I can’t take traditional SSRIs. And, and we found this out because I went on like 15 or 16 different ones in a, in a small period of [00:29:29] Brett: I know how that goes. Yeah. [00:29:31] Christina: And, and there, there’s another component there, which is my, um, my age was one thing, but my body weight and my bone age was another. [00:29:41] Christina: And this was before a lot of doctors had experienced prescribing these sorts of things, essentially to children. Because when I was 15, my bone age was eight and a half and I weighed like 68 pounds. So, you know, um, how so, so yeah, like, so they’ll, [00:30:00] they’ll scan your, your wrists and stuff and they’ll like compare like the size and like the density and things of your bones. [00:30:06] Christina: And, [00:30:06] Jeffrey: Oh yeah. Bone density is part of it. [00:30:08] Christina: and, and they’ll, they’ll, they’ll age it that way. And, um, I, I was so small and, and like hadn’t gone through, you know, puberty and all those things that, it was one of those things that like having, you know, they were having to look up on, on their, you know, charts and things, okay, how, how do we even dose this? [00:30:24] Christina: How do we even prescribe this? Because the normal dose would be this. How do we give, how, how do we dose this to someone, you know, um, this size. Um, and so which was, which was a challenge. So, um, I don’t know, like it could have been a, but, but it was one of those things where it was within days. It was definitely within a week where I noticed on Prozac it was like an instantaneous. [00:30:48] Christina: Oh, I, I can’t focus, I can’t pay any attention. I remember my mom sitting in the, um, kitchen table with me trying to run flashcards for me to learn my biology, like study for a biology test, and her just [00:31:00] being almost like in shock because her straight A, like type a like child, like, couldn’t focus on her face and couldn’t remember one thing to the next and couldn’t stop fidgeting and couldn’t, you know, have any amount of, of, of, um, like recall. [00:31:18] Jeffrey: Yeah. Wow. Huh. [00:31:22] Christina: So, I don’t know. [00:31:24] Jeffrey: Yeah. Bone d not to like, but, but bone density was something that we had a member of our family who, um, was having just kind of had two weird stress fractures outta nowhere, and bone density is the kind of thing that you have to have the right doctor to even bring it up. I mean, we went to a couple of doctors, nothing came up. [00:31:44] Jeffrey: Then all of a sudden it was like, I think I called my cousin to talk to him about it. He’s like a, he’s a podiatrist, and he’s like, first thing he said, get the bone density checked. No one had done that. It’s so interesting how, how you can, how there can be such a big thing that just gets missed. [00:31:58] Christina: Yeah, no, you’re [00:32:00] right. And, and that’s something like, I always have to like bring that up whenever, um, I have any sort of, you know, like, like break or whatever. Like, I had to mention it when I was hit by the car and like, I broke my wrist, bring it up. I was like, soap, you should know, you know, I had to go on certain things and like, I, you know, my bone is deep age. [00:32:17] Christina: Other stuff I’ve, I’ve less, like, I, I was basically told when I was a child I was like, yeah, you’re gonna have osteopenia, osteoporosis. Like, it’s, it’s not a will you, it is a when will you thing. Like, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s like, you know, um, so, you know, I had to point that out. I was like, might look okay in this thing, but this is not the way it goes. [00:32:37] Christina: Like, even if you, if you meet me in person, like you’ll notice like my bones are still very small. Like I’m, I’m, I’m a small person, but like my bones are like petite in a way that it’s like, you know, I, I appear smaller than I am. [00:32:50] Brett: So you’ve been tw, you’ve been 29 for at least five years now. Do you think your, your bone age [00:32:55] Jeffrey: Oh, good question. Good [00:32:57] Christina: That is a good question. I don’t know. I should get that. I should get [00:33:00] that done. Um, I don’t know because it’s possible that it could go higher, like, you know what I mean? Like, it’s, it’s possible. Like, no, no. Cuz it’s, it’s possible that like, that, that it could, that it could inverse. I don’t know. [00:33:11] Jeffrey: Or could you take your actual age and if your bone age is younger, use that in a little bit of math to be able to really, truly say, [00:33:19] Christina: I mean that’s, I mean, that is sort of like my, my like rationale for, you know, remaining as young as possible, as long as. Is the fact that actually, you know, I’ve got like a five and a half, like six year like deficit between, you know, [00:33:37] Jeffrey: I’m 16 in bone years. [00:33:41] Christina: I’m 29 and boney years. [00:33:44] Jeffrey: That’s great. [00:33:45] Christina: I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you. That was my mental health update. But I didn’t mean to interrupt you Brett, but are [00:33:49] Brett: Oh [00:33:50] Christina: doing okay now? [00:33:51] Brett: Oh yeah, yeah. No, that was a very thorough mental health update for Brett and uh, and Christina’s kind of slid in and overlapped, so, uh, yeah, [00:34:00] I’m good. Jeff, how are you? [00:34:01] Jeffrey: I’m doing, I’m doing good. I, my what’s been on my mind a lot lately, which is certainly a mental health connection, is chronic pain. And, um, and I just wanna shout out to all my chronic pain people out there, um, who, who can only you can know how truly debilitating chronic pain is. It is very hard for the people in your life to hold that, right. [00:34:23] Jeffrey: Like, to hold it constantly in part because you’re not always acting out of chronic pain. Right. Um, but the thing I’ve been thinking about is I, I’ve been making so many doctor appointments to deal with various kinds of chronic pain. I mean, I’m, I’m a really, I’m a big guy. I’m six four. I’m like two 70 thanks to Seroquel medication that makes you gain a lot of weight. [00:34:45] Jeffrey: Um, and I recently like gained weight, sounded so fast because of that medication that my joints were like, ho, ho, not ready. Didn’t warm up for this. And uh, anyway, the chronic pain thing that I just wanna [00:35:00] say, and I wanna say to anybody out there for whom this might be useful, and I understand there are a lot of people with chronic pain for whom this won’t be useful, but that I’ve had some good luck recently by just getting into somebody who I trust to talk to. [00:35:15] Jeffrey: It’s a hard thing to do and I’m definitely leading into our Zoc doc sponsorship, but, um, but I have found some really key relief by finally just going in, which is a thing that’s hard for me to do in. When I went in with my torn meniscus, I’ve actually had some issues with that knee for about a month or two, and he said, what have you done for it? [00:35:37] Jeffrey: And I was like, I’m a Scandinavian. I didn’t do anything, man. I thought about, thought about surviving the next winter, started gathering berries. That’s what I did. Anyway, I mostly am saying that just to like send out like little empathy torpedoes to everybody out there who’s, who’s experiencing chronic pain and, and is frustrated and paralyzed by it sometimes z.[00:36:00] [00:36:00] Brett: I, uh, I, I wrote, I wrote, I put together a new script for us. Christina. It’ll be a cold read for you. [00:36:06] Sponsor: ZocDoc [00:36:06] Christina: All right. This episode is brought to you by Zocdoc. All right, so you’ve been suing about a health problem you have, maybe you’ve torn a, maybe you’ve torn your meniscus. Maybe you’re concerned about like, what is the bone age of, uh, of, of your arm. Uh, maybe you’ve got something else going on. You’re almost resorting to texting your, your group chat to get your friends opinions, which, you know what? [00:36:29] Christina: Depends on your group chat. I’m, I’m gonna be honest about you, uh, with, with you on that, like depends on the group chat. You’re extremely unlikely to find quality medical advice in your group chat, but again, it’s gonna depend, uh, but you can find it from a doctor on Zocdoc. Thousands of medical professionals on Zocdoc are there to help you and they listen like a friend and they give you expert care that you need. [00:36:50] Christina: Zocdoc is the only free app that lets you find and book doctors who are patient reviewed. Take your insurance are available when you need them, and treat [00:37:00] almost every condition under the sun. So no more Dr. Roulette or scouring the internet for questionable reviews. With Zocdoc, you have a trusted guide to connect you to your favorite doctor you haven’t even met yet. [00:37:11] Christina: Millions of people use Zoc Docs free aft to find and book a doctor in their neighborhood who is patient, reviewed and fits their needs and scheduled just. I’m one of them. I’ve been using Zocdoc for more than a decade. Um, it is my go-to place to find a doctor. So go to zoc.com/ Overtired and download the zoc app for free. [00:37:31] Christina: Then find and book a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That’s zoc. DO c.com/ Overtired zoc.com/ Overtired zoc.com/ [00:37:47] Brett: Overtired, [00:37:48] Jeffrey: Oh, we should have harm. We should have harmonized. [00:37:50] Brett: Overtired, I’ll take the high part. No, I can’t do that. Um, so, uh, we are once again telling our listeners about [00:38:00] the Tech meme Ride home as our promo swap. Uh, when, when the New Yorker magazine asked Mark Zuckerberg how he gets his news, he said the one source he definitely follows is Tech Meme. [00:38:10] Podcast Swap: Tech Meme Ride Home [00:38:10] Brett: For four years now, the Tech Meme Ride Home podcast has been Silicon Valley’s favorite tech news source. The podcast has become so successful in fact that it launched a venture fund where the listeners are where the listeners to the show are the LPs and the. The tech meme Ride Home is like T L D R as a service. [00:38:30] Brett: It’s not just the latest headlines from the world of tech, it’s also the context around the latest news of the day. It’s all the top stories, the top posts, and tweets and conversations about those stories as well as behind the scenes analysis. Guests who have come on to lend their experience include Andreessen Horowitz’s, Chris Dixon, and Bloomberg’s Apple Rumor King Mark Germond. [00:38:52] Brett: The folks at Tech Meme are online all day reading everything so they can catch you up. So listen to the one podcast. [00:39:00] Anyone who’s anyone in Silicon Valley listens to every single day. Search your podcast app now for Ride Home and subscribe to the Tech Meme Ride Home podcast. [00:39:12] Jeffrey: Boom, we are sponsored. [00:39:16] Apple BAD!tude [00:39:16] Brett: Should we talk about some max stuff? [00:39:18] Christina: Yes. Let’s, let’s please, we were having, we were starting to get into a really good bitch fest right before we recorded that. I wanna hear from both of you about, so Yes. [00:39:26] Brett: like, I feel like that’s a vital part of the Apple community is just complaining. Um, if, if you don’t complain, things don’t get better. Right? [00:39:34] Christina: that’s exactly true. [00:39:35] Jeffrey: don’t think my complaints help things [00:39:37] Brett: Yeah. Same [00:39:38] Jeffrey: you I think could make some, could make some motion. [00:39:41] Christina: I, I ha I have successfully bitched on Twitter on a couple of occasions and gotten things fixed. Um, uh, like [00:39:48] Brett: on for, for individual teams. Like I can see like the web kit team listening to someone like you, or maybe even me, but Apple as a [00:39:56] Christina: Oh, no, absolutely not. No, no, no. But I’m just saying like, yeah, if you [00:40:00] can get things in front of the right people, um, and to be clear, like in, in like the most recent case, which was a, like a a T B o s instance, it was an issue that had been in a backlog. [00:40:09] Christina: And then, um, the, the, the hornets nest that I kicked up that other people then added onto then like, made it prioritized. And I’m very thankful to the people who, who prioritized it so that I can access my Apple TV library on my Apple tv. [00:40:24] Brett: Yeah, that’s handy. [00:40:25] Christina: It, it’s useful, right? It’s useful to be able to access the, the things you’ve purchased on the device that, that the company makes when you can access it on all the other devices that are not made by that company in their app, but not on their latest and greatest, um, device. [00:40:40] Christina: Yeah. [00:40:41] Brett: Last night, my girl, we were sitting down to, uh, group watch, um, Ted Lasso and my girlfriend’s sister. [00:40:49] Jeffrey: season. [00:40:50] Christina: good. [00:40:50] Brett: it is really good. But my girlfriend’s sister loaded up Apple TV on her Mac, uh, the TV app, and it came up and basically said she had nothing in her [00:41:00] library [00:41:00] Jeffrey: yeah. Well this just happened to us. Yeah, [00:41:02] Brett: we troubleshoot it. [00:41:03] Brett: Trouble shot it for a little while and then I was like, have you tried turning it off and turning it back on? And I rolled my eyes cuz, you know, generic advice, but she rebooted her computer and everything was fine. It worked. It always works. [00:41:20] Christina: what’s interesting on the Apple tv, if you are still running into problems and they’re, they’re clearly have issues, it’s, it’s not, it, it’s clearly an Apple problem. Cause they don’t have this problem with other clients like, it, it is, it is on their own clients. Like if you’re using the, uh, apple TV app on a Firestick or on an LG web OS tv or on [00:41:39] Brett: Wait, you can do that. [00:41:40] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:41:41] Jeffrey: Yeah. [00:41:41] Brett: Oh, wow. [00:41:42] Jeffrey: Yeah. [00:41:42] Christina: they decided they actually wanted people to watch their originals, they realized that they couldn’t rely on people to spend $200 on their, at the time pretty shitty in comparison. Like set top box, [00:41:53] Brett: That’s pretty obvious. [00:41:54] Christina: Right. Like at this point I, I think that the pricing is better and it’s a decent experience, but I would still say [00:42:00] I can get a Fire stick 4k. [00:42:02] Brett: like 40 bucks. [00:42:03] Christina: Yeah, you can get for $25 a couple times a year, like $25. And I’m like, you can’t convince me that this is eight times better because it’s not. Um, it’s not. Um, and uh, so they realized, oh, most people have smart TVs and Rokus and other stuff. So if we actually want people to watch our originals, we have to come out of our bubble and, and make iTunes for windows. [00:42:26] Christina: Um, which, you know, that, that’s a throwback to the iPod. The whole reason the [00:42:30] Jeffrey: Yeah, totally. Totally. [00:42:32] Christina: for Windows period. Um, it, it, it remained a Mac only thing. Apple as a company would not exist the same way that it does today. Anyway, that, that [00:42:41] Jeffrey: You wanna, oh. [00:42:42] Brett: to be fair, I own a stick. I have an Amazon Smart tv, I have a Roku, I have two Rokus and two Apple TVs. And I would by far prefer always to use the Apple tv. [00:42:57] Christina: I don’t disagree. [00:42:58] Brett: partly the, the [00:43:00] Touchpad remote is a big part of that. Uh, and the interface that’s really designed to work well, uh, with like touchpad thumb navigation, um, it’s, it’s, it’s perfect. [00:43:10] Brett: It has its shortcomings for sure, [00:43:13] Christina: and [00:43:13] Brett: I, I don’t see things like the stick beating it out in a lot of the areas. It sucks [00:43:18] Christina: no, I, I don’t, I totally agree with you on that. I’m just saying if you’re trying to convince somebody to buy one of these things, for a lot of people, $200 [00:43:27] Brett: Okay, so, so it’s better, but maybe not $125 [00:43:31] Christina: That, that’s my point. That, that, that, that’s my point. It, it, it’s better, but it’s not eight times better. Like if I can get one for $25 and one is $180, like y that, that, that’s my argument. So they make the apps now for those things, and you can access, what’s great about it, you can access all the original content, but what’s better is you can also access your library content. [00:43:51] Christina: And that to me was what was kind of the game changer. So I travel with, uh, especially when I used to do international travel. I travel with a, a fire tv. [00:44:00] And I was, I would like it because I was like, oh, now I can watch my massive, um, like library of, of content that I’ve bought over the years through [00:44:11] Jeffrey: Yeah, it is massive. I remember, I [00:44:13] Christina: And, and yeah, it’s like, you know, it, it, and it’s massive, but it’s not like that bad. It’s [00:44:18] Jeffrey: it makes sense year over year given the time you’ve been [00:44:21] Christina: Totally. And, and also they have sales and so, but, but it’s also one of those things I’m like, honestly, like, because some people are like, well, maybe you just have too many things in your, in your library and that’s why you can’t access them. [00:44:31] Christina: And I’m like, that’s not an excuse. Um, uh, especially when I buy them from this company. But, um, if you do, if you do run onto that problem, You can use the iTunes store apps on Apple TV where you can then have to go there to your purchases section and it’ll show you your purchases. And then you can play it that way if the TV app for some reason is not working on your Apple tv. [00:44:52] Christina: But, uh, if you’re using a Roku or a Fire Stick or whatever, um, it should work. And if it’s not working on [00:45:00] your Mac, uh, as a l was smart enough to No. Just restart. [00:45:05] Brett: I, um, uh, apple TV was not on our list of things to talk about, but I did wanna mention, uh, on my last trip to Michigan, um, I packed our Apple TV and an H D M I cable, and I was, I was really thankful for it when we got to the Airbnb and they had a big screen TV mounted on the wall and I could just plug in my Apple TV and it felt like being at home, all of my, all of my favorite, all my logins were already set up for Hulu and Netflix and all of the Apple TV apps were available. [00:45:38] Brett: My, I got my Plex server working. I could remotely access, uh, my friends and my home analogy plex and yeah, it was Entertainment Central. [00:45:47] Christina: No, I, if you’re traveling in the US I think that traveling with an Apple TV is fine. My one thing would be if you’re going internationally, maybe not if you’re wanting to use a VPN of any sort or if you’re at a hotel, this is the one thing. If you’re on a [00:46:00] normal, like non captive, I, um, uh, like wifi network, apple tv, traveling with it is great if you’re on a captive network. [00:46:07] Christina: Um, the Apple TV does not like that. And so getting that connected is a pain in the ass. That’s why I like the Firestick. And actually Firestick has now become a little bit on some networks complicated too. So Roku is ironically the best choice. So, which is my least favorite. But if you’re gonna be at a lot of hotels, um, uh, take, take my advice and, and get a Roku or a Fire Stick because the captive network support, that’s what you want. [00:46:32] Christina: Cuz otherwise you’ll have to do like create, try to create like a. You know, a, a a, a separate network connection between like your, your laptop and your, your, uh, um, apple TV in the hotel to like bypass the fact that you can’t log in to their stupid like system, um, [00:46:53] Brett: Hotels have horrible, horrible, what, what are they called? The, you just said it, the name for the networks captive. [00:47:00] They h I hate, I hate hotel wifi. Um, I have a Roku with a Gyroscopic remote. Uh, like you can use it almost like a we, and you can like move stuff around on the screen by Mo. Yeah, it, it, it’s handy. [00:47:14] Brett: But yeah, Roku’s not, not great software [00:47:17] Jeffrey: hated that feature on the, we though, if I’m not lying. [00:47:20] Christina: The, um, the, I think what l the lg, it’s not gyroscopic, but they have like a similar thing, like some people love it, some people don’t, where like you can kind of mo but it is sort of gyroscopic, I guess, where you can kind of move the remote to certain ways and then it’s got like this also, you know, this little cursor thing that you can use. [00:47:34] Christina: And I always have to try to like, [00:47:36] Brett: accelerometer [00:47:37] Christina: That’s what the word is, accelerometer. That’s, that’s correct. Um, and, uh, I, I understand why it’s useful. I also understand why my dad hates the LG remote and, and uses instead like the com. He uses like the Comcast, Comcast, like the Xfinity Box to access all of his apps. [00:47:56] Jeffrey: Also terrible. [00:47:57] Christina: it’s terrible and it’s slow. And I’m like, use the one built into [00:48:00] your very nice television, or use the Apple TV or the Fire Stick cuz I bought you both, um, you know, use, use one of those. But, but, uh, that’s, he doesn’t quite get that. He, he prefers like the, the, the Comcast interface. [00:48:17] Jeffrey: I hate those, uh, those like the, we control, I have a tremor and so it’s just a [00:48:22] Christina: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. [00:48:26] Brett: let’s [00:48:26] Jeffrey: were gonna talk about stage [00:48:28] Brett: Yeah, let, let’s, I don’t think we’ll have to spend long on [00:48:31] Jeffrey: No. [00:48:32] Brett: but [00:48:32] Jeffrey: Can I just say why I brought it up? Like I didn’t, I’ve stopped following, um, the OS updates. I mean, I, I update, but I don’t look for anything special anymore. [00:48:42] Jeffrey: Cause I just, it’s been a [00:48:43] Brett: You don’t read all the release notes? [00:48:45] Jeffrey: I don’t, I used to, I used to as of like two years ago even. But anyway, I was like, what’s this stage manager thing? Like maybe this is cool. And I turned it on and I was like, Immediately, like I was like my grandma with the VCR remote. I was like, I fucking need a [00:49:00] flashlight. [00:49:00] Jeffrey: And what are all these buttons? And it was like, it was like how maybe you would’ve imagined a heads up display in 1975 is how it felt. And I was just, I got out of there so fast. I’ve never rejected something kind of native to the max so quickly, um, or to the os. So anyway, that’s why I brought it up. What the hell? [00:49:21] Brett: And my response was like, I don’t use it. I, I tried it as well. Um, I don’t think I understand. Like on a Mac, on a phone, it makes sense that I would, I would want, you know, one or two apps connected together, split screen on an iPad and, and switch between like, pairs of apps. But on my Mac, I use everything all at once. [00:49:46] Brett: Um, there’s like never a time. I don’t want access to other applications windows. It’s why I have 2 32 inch displays. Um, and, and I don’t like the idea that you can’t easily access another [00:50:00] running app because you have to switch stages. [00:50:03] Jeffrey: That’s what blew my mind. I was like, are you serious? Is there any way out of this help help. [00:50:07] Brett: And I did however, think it was better, uh, in execution than spaces. [00:50:14] Brett: Um, I spaces like great idea and, and like I was, I was using whatever the X Windows version of spaces was way back on Linux in high school. And, and it was cool to see it come to the Mac, but the fact is like, like I said, I have two 30 inch, 2, 2 32 inch displays and I just have everything open and spread out. [00:50:37] Brett: And the idea of like separating into different spaces just doesn’t make sense for my brain. That’s like, I minimize, you know, like I’ll hide all apps and just load up what I need. Uh, but I don’t wanna like flip between, especially once you get more than two, like two spaces. Sure. If you have a set of apps that are less accessed and all go together and belong on a space, [00:51:00] great. [00:51:00] Brett: But you have to flip through more than one space and it’s so confusing. [00:51:04] Christina: I totally agree. And then I’ll forget like that I have an app open in a space. This is what my problem with spaces would be, and it just doesn’t work with my brain. I’m the same way as you. And it like you. In high school, I really liked having separate virtual desktops. That’s what it was called. [00:51:17] Christina: And Linux, I really liked that idea. Um, but for whatever reason, may, maybe it’s the Mackin implementation, maybe my brain and the way I use things is different. Maybe, you know, I wasn’t using multiple monitors when I was using Linux, that’s for sure. Um, and certainly not as big of screens as I have now. But now it’s like I forget that I have it open on a space. [00:51:38] Christina: It’s all open up another instance of an app, you know, on like my main thing, and then forget about it. And then accidentally it’s like swipe over. It’s like, oh, okay, but that’s not where the tab that I wanted was, or that’s not where the document that I wanted was. It’s on this other thing, you know? And so you wind up, at least for me, I wind up recreating spaces that are all identical to one another. [00:51:57] Christina: But with all different things. So it was [00:52:00] just like the worst case scenario. You’re literally not benefiting from anything. Cuz like I understand the point being like, oh, I have this set of tasks for this set of things. [00:52:08] Brett: Right. Context if they, if they neatly fit into different contexts. Sure. But I never have distinct con context, like I’m [00:52:18] Christina: Well and for me, like it would automatically, like if I would say, okay, I’m going, if I had spaces enabled a certain way, and if it’s like, okay, I need to go into this web browser if it automatically took me to that space. [00:52:28] Brett: Oh, okay. So I do have context, like podcasting is a context for me. And the only apps that I ever access while podcasting are Chrome, where we do a recording quip where we have our show notes and my browser. And I could easily, and it would be cool to have a separate browser window with just, with just tabs from the podcast. [00:52:51] Brett: Yeah. [00:52:52] Christina: does that and I love it. [00:52:53] Brett: But I could just open up a new Firefox window in another space, and any tabs I created would be in that [00:53:00] window. So it, that is a case where I could see, but I use bunch for that. I use bunch to literally like quit all the, all my other apps. So I have all the bandwidth possible, um, and just switch into the podcasting context. [00:53:13] Brett: But I could see that with spaces. But speaking a bunch, one of the requests I get very often is how do I open, uh, a particular app on a specific space or, uh, can you interface with stage manager? And the answer to both is no. Like Apple has never provided any kind of accessibility or automation workarounds for dealing with spaces. [00:53:38] Brett: Much like focus modes like you. I focus modes is even worse. Like I should be able to, from an automation perspective, be able to, uh, to access focus modes, uh, without using shortcuts. Like you can do some stuff with shortcuts, but yeah, it’s just, it’s annoying. [00:53:58] Christina: but, but stage [00:54:00] manager, like in some ways is even more egregious than spaces to me. Cuz spaces is one of those things that I can kind of like turn off and kind of like, you know, I forget that it even exists. You know, I, I stopped activating it or, or whatever, you know? And, um, I, I, I don’t like have to feel like I, I deal with it. [00:54:15] Christina: Like you have to deal with it from a support issue, but like, me as a human, like if, if I’d forgotten. I’ve forgotten about it, you know, unless I accidentally click like the plus, you know, button when I, when I’m, um, doing Expose is that the, the mode where you can see all your open windows, because that I do love, like I love Expose. [00:54:30] Christina: Um, but, but unless I accidentally click on like a plus, you know, menu and add another desktop and then when I’m swiping I’m like, God, what did I do? You know, I’m fine. But stage Manager, you know, it was like touted as like this new like better windows management thing, which in my opinion, like Mac os desperately needs like a better like Windows manager. [00:54:50] Christina: And it, like, I, it just does, and, and it, but it was also touted as being this thing that would work really great on the iPad. And then on the iPad it’s even worse than it is on the Mac. And it was so bad on [00:55:00] iPad os that, that uh, uh, Federico Vichi Uni Max stories, who’s like Mr. iPad, like railed against it and they didn’t release it. [00:55:08] Christina: Like they had to hold it back a while until it got better, but it’s still not good. And I’m talking about somebody who has an M two. You know, um, iPad Pro, like, literally like the latest iPad Pro, and it’s like the performance is not good, but then the utility, like, I, I just, I understand what they’re trying to do, but to your point, Brett, like, you’re like, oh wait, so I can’t do this very basic thing that I thought that I would be able to do, you know? [00:55:34] Christina: Uh, it, it’s bad. It’s really bad. [00:55:37] Brett: Did Vichi write about this? Should I find something for the show [00:55:41] Christina: I’ll find it. Um, I’ll find an ad, but yeah. Um, why do you think though, like Windows and I’m sorry, but I’m gonna have to give like, my former employer some credit here, like Windows 11 especially, but also with power toys, like, they’ve now added really good [00:56:00] tiling kind of windows managed support, like into the os like, uh, both into the, you know, Uh, the built-in stuff, um, for, for, for the Snap modes. [00:56:10] Christina: But now with power toys, you can go even further and it is truly like, you know, uh, uh, a Ty window manager, like for Linux or whatever. But, um, at an OS level, I’m very pretty like, and I know that we have third party apps on Mac Os, but like, doesn’t that just seem like this is like low-hanging fruit that Apple could just do to really Im [00:56:31] Brett: Yeah, they could, they could Sherlock Moom, which would be pretty amazing. But I really don’t think if they build it into the os I don’t think it’ll be better than Moom. Um, I love Moom to death and, and better touch tool with, for window snapping and like hot corners where you can like drag a window into a certain area and it will expand to fit, you know, a quarter or a half of your screen. [00:56:54] Brett: Like that kind of stuff. I have no problem using a third party utility for, [00:57:00] um, yeah. [00:57:01] Christina: I don’t have a problem with it. I just, I wonder, like if you, you clearly, they, they recognize that window management is a problem for them to create something like stage manager. Right? And, and, and in spaces before that, like you clearly recognize that it’s a problem. So if you’re gonna create stage manager, which is a mess, why would you not? [00:57:17] Christina: I, I guess in my mind, I just don’t understand the priorities where you see all of the third party things like Moom and whatnot, and you see that that’s a direction that that works and that makes sense. But then create this completely, in my opinion, just like over designed and under, like, both over and Underdesigned like UI paradigm that you’re not even gonna have an p i for like, [00:57:39] Brett: I will, I will say, and I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed this, but on, and I think it started a couple versions ago, but if you have two windows on your Mac desktop and you drag them near each other, the edges will stick. There’s this fine, and you can, I mean, just drag a little bit farther and it’ll go past it. [00:57:57] Brett: But if you lightly drag two windows near each [00:58:00] other, you can easily align them. Um, that’s, that’s a nice touch. It doesn’t go in anywhere near your addressing your concerns, but little, little touches like that. I, I do impress me about the os. [00:58:12] Christina: Yeah, I agree with that. Like that I really do like, like the fact that, like you said, you can get them so that they, you know, they, they, they touch or whatever. And I really do like that, but I just, I, I just look at like, it’s like you’re so close. You know what I mean? [00:58:24] Brett: Yeah, [00:58:25] Christina: Like, and then, and then you give a stage manager, [00:58:29] Jeffrey: That’s what I was thinking. What the fuck is this? [00:58:32] Grapptitude [00:58:32] Brett: your gratitude this week is stage manager. [00:58:34] Christina: ha ha. [00:58:36] Brett: should we, uh, should we do a gratitude? [00:58:38] Christina: should actually, [00:58:39] Brett: Um, I, I will kick it off. My, mine will probably not take long. Um, I’m going with, uh, Microsoft Word this week. [00:58:48] Jeffrey: Yes. [00:58:49] Brett: I’m just kidding. [00:58:50] Christina: I was gonna say that, that doesn’t sound right. [00:58:52] Brett: That doesn’t sound right. Um, no. I’m gonna go with an app called Code Runner. Um, I, I used to know the developer and I’ve forgotten [00:59:00] who it’s by. [00:59:00] Brett: Hold on. Code Runner about Code Runner. Oh, Nick Nikolai Crill. Um, So this is a little app that basically gives you an r e p l a rep for a bunch of different languages, and you can, it’s got a nice editor with, uh, code completion and syntax highlighting and everything. Um, and you can write your code for like Python or Objective C or Swift or Ruby, and you can instantly run it and get console output, um, as you, as you work. [00:59:37] Brett: And for, uh, hammering out an idea, uh, like I love it for JavaScript stuff too, although, uh, VS. Code and Sublime Text, both have pretty good res for JavaScript, um, and, and, uh, accessing the Chrome console. But, um, for, especially for like Python, which I’m not great at and need to test my work often in, [01:00:00] um, the Code Runner is just a, a very well done tool that fits a very specific need. [01:00:09] Jeffrey: Awesome. Yeah, it’s been solid forever. [01:00:12] Brett: It has and it, it, it, it improves, uh, slow more slowly these days. Uh, but it is, it is, uh, it is solid. It has been solid, and it has improved over the years. I don’t think it’s on Setapp, is it? [01:00:27] Christina: Uh, it is [01:00:28] Jeffrey: It is. Yeah. [01:00:29] Brett: there you go. Setup or code runners on setup. [01:00:33] Christina: yeah, so if you are a setup subscriber, which man I love setup. That’s just like [01:00:38] Jeffrey: So good. [01:00:39] Christina: unpaid, just like promoted, like that completely unpromoted, but just completely like genuine, like love [01:00:46] Brett: I recently revised the script I wrote that Will, you can run it and it will tell you what apps are on your system that are also on setup so that you can choose to run the setup version and thereby give part of your setup [01:01:00] subscription to. The developers, uh, as a, as a subscription fee. Um, which only makes sense because set up versions are fully unlocked. [01:01:09] Brett: Uh, and, and there’s no, if, if an app has a subscription model with a pro level, that’s what you get on set app, you get the pro level. Um, but I, I revamped it or I revised it with some corrections that I got from, uh, from users, um, uh, via Macedon. And um, I had a couple of people contact me because they ran it and it told them like 20 of their apps were on setup. [01:01:35] Brett: And they’re like, well, why would I pay for setup if I already own all these apps? But I just want to clarify that this script is to tell you how you could take apps you own and, and give the developers more money. But there are a couple hundred apps on set apps, and this script will not tell you all the apps that you could be using that you don’t already own. [01:01:57] Jeffrey: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, uh, [01:02:00] can I say two things about code? [01:02:01] Brett: Yeah. [01:02:02] Jeffrey: One is as soon as you open it up, if you’ve never used it, go into, they say settings in the, in the top, in the menu bar, but it’s called preferences in the actual preference window. I don’t know what that’s about. Um, but anyway, edit file type associations. [01:02:18] Jeffrey: It’s on the first page at the bottom. And just make sure that everything is unchecked so that you don’t start opening, um, code files in Code Runner I did for the longest time, I didn’t think to look at that and it, I would like, I don’t want this anymore. It’s driving me crazy. [01:02:31] Brett: I kept, I kept forgetting, like I, I had not set yaml. Um, so every time I opened a config file code runner would pop up and I, I rarely want Code Runner to be the default editor for any file type. Like I intentionally open Code Runner. So yeah, di disable all of those file type associations. [01:02:51] Christina: Speaking of that, isn’t there a Mac app that will tell you like what your default apps are or that makes [01:02:59] Brett: There used to [01:03:00] be, uh, it was originally called RC default app. Um, there’s a new version rewritten in Swift, and it might be called Swift Default App. I, I would’ve to look it up. Um, I’ll, if I find it, it’ll be in the show notes, but yes. Um, RC default app was awesome for, uh, doing some very system level adjustments to what, uh, file types are associated, uh, what, uh, bundle IDs are associated and even like protocols, like if you want like a d different handle handler for like mail to or FTP protocols, and you could set all that in there. [01:03:36] Brett: And there is an updated version of it. I’ll have to find it. [01:03:40] Christina: Okay, cool. Yeah, cause I was gonna say, I remember there being like a better version, um, or a better like tool for that. Um, and, and I couldn’t remember what it was because [01:03:49] Brett: So it, it was a, it was a system preferences, pain or like a plugin does system set. Can you even have plugins in the revamp Ventura system [01:04:00] settings? Like all of those apps are gonna have to come up with their own Oh, that sucks. I fucking hate, that’s, that’s what I want to bitch about with Mac Os. Right now, that system setting panel is [01:04:10] Christina: It’s fucking terrible and it’s not like it was good before. [01:04:13] Brett: they changed the name of it. [01:04:14] Brett: So all of my launch, my keyboard launching, like I’m used to typing sp so I had to manually assign SP to open system settings instead of system preferences. I hate that. [01:04:25] Christina: No, I hate it so much. And then it’s like, you know, you have enough muscle and like look to be clear, anything they changed it with, we would’ve had problems with because you get a certain amount of muscle memory and they would change the order of stuff. You’ve between OS versions even when it had the same over overall interface. [01:04:39] Christina: And that would annoy me cuz I was like, I, I don’t know. [01:04:42] Brett: so [01:04:43] Christina: you know what icon is cap? [01:04:44] Brett: there’s a setting and system preferences on previous versions to display. Alphabetically and I, that would be the first thing I always [01:04:51] Christina: Okay. I never [01:04:52] Brett: does move around. Um, and if it’s displayed alphabetically and you get used to it, it’s easy to find stuff. System settings I [01:05:00] could not use without the search. [01:05:01] Christina: No, you have to [01:05:02] Brett: the only way to find what you’re looking [01:05:04] Christina: No, you have to use the search. It’s, it’s good search, but it’s not like, but it seems so weird to me. It’s like, look, spotlight is fantastic and, and, and we love it. Um, and I’m glad it’s there, but I shouldn’t have to use a search thing to find like the settings paint that I want for something. [01:05:23] Christina: Like, to me, that’s just a sign of bad design. [01:05:28] Brett: Oh, the other J side note, I know we’re over time already and you guys haven’t done your gratitude yet, but um, Do you guys use full keyboard access? So in keyboard settings, you can turn on full keyboard access, which means that when a dialogue pops up, you can hit tab to switch between the buttons and then space bar to hit a button. [01:05:51] Brett: Um, and I had it enabled in system preferences, but it wasn’t working. And like it would ac [01:06:00] on some apps, it would work. In some apps it wouldn’t, and I couldn’t figure out why. But then I discovered that in, um, in, uh, keyboard settings, there is a, a shortcuts pain where you can assign system short, uh, keyboard shortcuts for apps and function keys and everything. [01:06:18] Brett: Um, in the, uh, keyboard, pain of the keyboard settings, um, there’s, uh, an option called, uh, turn keyboard access on or off. There was another one that was like, oh, change the way taboo’s focus and you can assign that to a keyboard shortcut. And I hit the keyboard shortcut that was assigned to it, and all of a sudden everything started working again. [01:06:47] Brett: It seems to function independently of the full keyboard access setting, [01:06:52] Jeffrey: Huh? [01:06:53] Brett: just in case anyone else is running into that. [01:06:56] Jeffrey: Yeah. [01:06:57] Christina: Okay. That is interesting. And, and that is, [01:07:00] uh, okay, [01:07:02] Jeffrey: We’re getting into the weeds. Everybody who wants to stay in the weeds, I like it in the [01:07:06] Christina: like in the weeds, uh, do you, do you have your gratitude ready? [01:07:10] Jeffrey: I sure do. Um, my aptitude, so I’m a member, owner of a research and evaluation. Firm that is a collaborative in, based in Minneapolis. We do work all around the world, and there’s about nine of us. Um, it’s all social justice based, uh, social justice based work. [01:07:28] Jeffrey: Um, and uh, anyway, so I have just tried Grammarly for business. We’ve always used Grammarly, like individuals in the organization have used it. But we’ve started to get, like, we’ve started to get like kind of more critical of how we communicate with clients or how we do sort of public facing communication. [01:07:49] Jeffrey: I remember who’s the, uh, journalism critic at nyu who, uh, [01:07:55] Christina: Jay Rosen, [01:07:56] Jeffrey: yeah, I remember Jay Rosen. I think it was him saying, you know, [01:08:00] in journalism you should treat. Thing you do as an editorial product, so your emails an editorial product, like whatever. Right now that really impacted me as a journalist, having heard that and changed me generally. [01:08:13] Jeffrey: Um, and we’re kind of like hitting that point in our work where we want to kind of treat it that way. I’m trying to talk people into treating it that way. So Grammarly for business, like I’ve used Grammarly forever, but Grammarly for Business allows you to basically turn Grammarly into a like Scrivener level, um, feature party. [01:08:32] Jeffrey: And, and it’s just like, it’s amazing. So you can create your own style guide, um, that is just like, it’ll just underline something because you know, like we, we’ve written things, we’re there and there is wrong, right? It’s like it just happens, right? You, you put the wrong there and you’re moving too fast, whatever, like it happens to a couple of our members. [01:08:49] Jeffrey: And so I made a style guy that’s like, Hey, if you’re using the word. E r e or the word there, e i r, you’re just gonna see it underlined. It’s like, Hey, is this the right one? You know? Um, and, uh, and then you’re allowed to, [01:09:00] it allows you to just kind of turn, um, features on. There’s about, there must be a hundred features that are like, if you wanna try to not use, uh, bi, you know, if you wanna use non-binary language or if you wanna like, uh, use your dates this way, or whatever. [01:09:14] Jeffrey: And so anyway, it’s been amazing. And I’m in the process of creating a style guide, which you can do in a CSV file and just upload. Um, their interface is a little clunky, but, uh, if anybody’s out there and has the, the funds or the need and a small business, or, which is what ours is, um, Grammarly for business is amazing. [01:09:33] Christina: Cool. So in Grammarly for business, do like, do they not now upload all of your stuff to their cloud? As for training stuff, like, can you at [01:09:40] Jeffrey: No, they, they do as far as I know. And I don’t know if business I haven’t gotten so far, cause I’m on the seven day trial, that’s a big concern of mine, so I should have said that. I only use it for certain types of things. I use it for emails that aren’t sensitive and, you know, and honestly I use it to teach myself. [01:09:57] Jeffrey: Like, I’m constantly learning. It’s like [01:10:00] it’s wrong a bunch of the time and there’s certain kinds of writing that it’s just totally inappropriate to go into Grammarly for. Um, it’s like working with a really stubborn copy editor where it’s like, hey, we have a voice, right? Like, and we wanna still professor voice, uh, don’t forget that. [01:10:14] Jeffrey: Um, but that’s really important to me. And I’m not sure of the answer. Yet, but I mean, I, I’ve gone so granular as like we’ve had, you know, we’ve had, uh, emails to clients that are just too informal, right? Like we just wanna have a record of just kind of formal clean correspondence. And in case for any reason something goes wrong and they wanna like audit the partnership and they’re like, wow, these guys have just been like writing us and being like, let me know Lmk, or like whatever. [01:10:40] Jeffrey: So anyway, if you wanna be uptight, which I do in this case, Grammarly for [01:10:44] Christina: for business. Um, okay. I’m, I’m, I’m interested in that. Yeah. Cause my, my only concern with Grammarly, cuz I think it’s a great product, but my big concern has always been like, okay, you upload everything that I write and, um, so like for business purposes, like we are absolutely not allowed to use it. [01:10:59] Christina: I [01:11:00] mean, I’m sure some people do, but it is, it is on our blacklist. Um, because, um, uh, the security audits have come back and they’ve been like, Um, and I don’t know if that was the, the, the personal version, the the business thing or whatnot. And, and I’m sure that, uh, we’re not the only, uh, organization and Microsoft was like this too. [01:11:18] Christina: I’m sure that those are not the only organizations that have those sorts of concerns. And I know that certainly a lot of places have those things in place for, for chat, G P T and, and um, and, and even, you know, things like, uh, copilot, which can be, uh, turned off. Um, and, and, and by default on business doesn’t send anything at all back to anything. [01:11:35] Christina: But, but that’s always like my, uh, my only weird thing with, with Grammarly cuz I find it useful is like, oh, I can’t use this for work because everything that you type in is used as their training set. And for, you know, uh, most of my work stuff, it would be completely fine. But there are some things that would be like, eh, you know, don’t, I don’t want that, uh, uh, used in some way. [01:11:59] Jeffrey: [01:12:00] That actually reminds me, like for I, we do some pretty sensitive projects, like on juvenile justice and stuff like that. And, um, we have sort of a, a document security hierarchy where, you know, you, you’ve defined like five levels of security and it makes me think that the most sort of permissive model could be a thing. [01:12:19] Jeffrey: Like in this you can, with this, you can use Grammarly, right? Like with this you absolutely cannot use Grammarly. So I’m gonna add that to the definitions. Once I research the security itself, maybe I’ll just decide to bail, but love it so far [01:12:31] Christina: Good. [01:12:32] Brett: a, I have a quick update. Um, you may remember. You may remember in the past we’ve talked about RC default apps. Um, [01:12:40] Jeffrey: wait, what does that mean? [01:12:43] Brett: the, it was the system preference thing we were just talking about. Um, [01:12:47] Jeffrey: I drifted off [01:12:48] Brett: yeah, no, I [01:12:49] Jeffrey: so I, I was standing in for the listeners like, oh man, this is good, but I don’t know what’s going on. [01:12:53] Brett: Um, it is called swift default Apps, the due Version, and you can use third party. [01:13:00] Pre preference pains in system settings. Uh, they show up way at the bottom of that horrible sidebar in system settings. Uh, but once you install swift default apps, which you can do with brew, um, uh, you get all, all the, all the usual internet, r i schemes, uniform type of Denis, and applications all, all configurable. [01:13:22] Christina: Now, is this the one that has not been updated since 2019? [01:13:24] Brett: Uh, yes, [01:13:26] Christina: Okay. Okay. All right. But it still works. Okay, well then that, that’s all I needed to know cause I, I found that, cuz it was funny, we were both googling for these things at the same time and I, I found that, uh, and I was like, oh, but this has been updated since 2019. [01:13:40] Christina: I wonder if this even works. So that is good to know that you can have also custom preference planes. Um, cuz that I, I was not aware of, um, I thought that had gone the way of the dodo so hap happy that that is not the case. [01:13:51] Jeffrey: I listened this time. [01:13:53] Christina: Um, [01:13:54] Brett: what do you got? [01:13:54] Christina: so mine is actually Moom, um, Honestly, we were talking about that and I was, I was like, [01:14:00] actually, you know, what Moom is is one of my, my favorites. [01:14:03] Christina: I’ve also, I’ve used a number of these different things over the years. I’ve used Mosaic. I’ve used, um, what was one of the other ones called, um, [01:14:12] Jeffrey: Oh [01:14:12] Christina: rectangle or something? [01:14:14] Jeffrey: something always back to Moom. [01:14:16] Brett: Magnet. There was magnet. Yeah. Moom. [01:14:21] Christina: yep. And, and, and, yeah. Magnet, that’s it. And, and so rectangle some of those things. And so I’ve used a lot of these things over the years and uh, and Moom is definitely the best. So, um, big, uh, big fan of that. If you’re somebody who wants kind of a tiling Windows manager experience on the Mac, that is, that is my pick. [01:14:39] Christina: Especially one that’s like pretty and like easy to deal with. I still feel like that should be like a first party feature. Um, and I, not that I want many tricks to be Sherlock. Uh, because I feel, I still feel like Moom could be better, could be like, made to be better than, than whatever they were to do built in. [01:14:57] Christina: But you [01:14:58] Brett: How, like what [01:15:00] more could you ask? Boom. To do for, it’s [01:15:02] Christina: no, no. What I’m [01:15:02] Brett: never talked about this. Are we Sure We haven’t. [01:15:05] Christina: I’m, I, I don’t think we have. [01:15:06] Brett: It’s not on our master [01:15:08] Christina: so no, I, I, we’ve talked about window managers, but I, or like Ty window things, but I don’t think we’ve gotten into this. I don’t think Moom could be any better. What I’m saying is I think that Moom could still be more advanced than what, [01:15:19] Brett: oh, I [01:15:19] Christina: what Apple does. [01:15:20] Christina: That’s what I’m saying. But, but I feel like there should be a basic thing the same way that like the, the default Windows 11 experience is superseded by what is then done by power toys. Um, and, uh, and I, I, I assume there might have been some third party, uh, attempts to, to do things on windows. Nobody is as good as power toys. [01:15:41] Christina: Power toys. It’s just, The tits. Um, but uh, yeah, I still feel, I still, I feel like there’d be a place where like maybe Moom would potentially be like Sherlock, but they, it would go above and beyond whatever Apple would do. I [01:15:55] Brett: Can I tell you, can I tell you my three, three favorite things about Moom? [01:16:00] Um, first of all, keyboard shortcuts. So you can, like, you can say, uh, you, you can draw, you get like a grid of your screen and you can draw in that grid, what like a, a window position, like maybe the left half of your screen or maybe like the upper right corner of your screen. [01:16:16] Brett: And then, uh, you can. [01:16:17] Jeffrey: into thirds. [01:16:19] Brett: you can assign keyboard shortcuts. So whatever the current window is, you hit the keyboard shortcut and it goes to that position on the screen. And I have a bunch of those in muscle memory as I move between windows. Second thing the, uh, it adds so that when you hover over the green icon in the traffic lights, like where the, where you close the window and maximize the window, uh, when you’re running Moom and you hover over that, it brings up a little shortcut panel and it has like this, it looks like a touchscreen on it, and you can draw in, like you click it and then you, you can draw on your screen where you want the window to go. [01:16:57] Brett: It’s very cool. And, oh, what was the [01:17:00] third thing? Um, oh [01:17:01] Jeffrey: that feature I now use more even than my keyboard shortcuts. [01:17:04] Christina: Yeah, same. To be honest. [01:17:06] Brett: And Windows sets, uh, well, I can’t, what do they call ’em in Moom? But you can, like, you can store, once you get a bunch of windows of specific apps in the positions you want them in, um, they’re called snapshots. Uh, you can take a snapshot and it will remember those apps in those positions. So the next time all those apps are running, you can trigger that snapshot and everything will go back to where you want it. [01:17:30] Brett: And I, I, I incorporate that into bunches. So it launches all the apps and then then uses AppleScript to tell Moom to move all the windows. [01:17:40] Jeffrey: The way I use that feature is if I’m working on like a project that requires, you know, a bunch of windows and I’ve got ’em all organized, um, I take a snapshot like that morning of the workspace and then throughout the day, once I sully it with other things that are open and whatever else, I do the keyboard shortcut for it and it just resets to, to where it [01:18:00] needed to be. [01:18:00] Jeffrey: And I can think clearly again. [01:18:02] Brett: Good pick. Christina, we had a lot to say about this. [01:18:05] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, Moom very, very good stuff. It’s, uh, it’s both in the Macapp store and without it, I tend to, I don’t, okay. I know that we’re going long. I don’t buy macapp store versions of apps. If I can buy a non macapp store version, uh, where, where are you two with that? Cuz if anything, I, I like, I go out, I try to avoid the Macapp store version if at all possible. [01:18:27] Jeffrey: Yeah, I’ve, I’ve transitioned to that. I mean, it was a couple years ago, but like, that’s totally how I, how I am. And, and in fact, the last time I used a profile to set up a computer, I was amazed. Cause I used like MAs, which is like, you know, and, uh, I was amazed at how few Mac store apps I had. Um, it looked wrong. [01:18:47] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Brett, [01:18:50] Jeffrey: I, I wish setup was a little easier to interact with, like from the command line or whatever else. But [01:18:56] Christina: Agreed. But, but, but I also understand that that would be like [01:19:00] difficult in, in a lot of regards. Like you could prob you could probably make it work. It is an education. Cause that’s the thing. It’s like you could, there’s a way you could make that work with Ruth, but it would be so much effort that I, that I, that I understand why that’s not like, uh, [01:19:15] Jeffrey: I wouldn’t want him to prioritize it. [01:19:16] Brett: the only, the only reason someone might prefer, uh, the Mac App Store is, uh, for updates, uh, for just having one place where you can go to keep everything up to date. But that’s what Mac Updater does, and, and it does it better. And like Mac Updater could do like your audio plugins and everything. Um, so no, I, I do not. [01:19:39] Brett: If, if something is available off the app store, I will buy it off the app store. That said, um, like NV Ultra will be released on the app store first just because from a monetary perspective, the audience to the, for the app store is far more built in and people, uh, like your average Mac user trust the Mac App [01:20:00] store more than they trust going to a website and putting in their credit card information. [01:20:04] Christina: See, that’s what I was gonna ask. Like, I was gonna say like, is that, I, that’s I guess what my question was, like, is that still the case? Because I, I, I could have seen that argument a number of years ago, but like at this point, a let’s, we’ve all talked about this over the years, but like, let’s be honest, like the quality in the Mac app store is pretty shit. [01:20:23] Christina: And, and it’s full of a lot of like, you know, [01:20:26] Brett: bad. [01:20:27] Christina: it, it’s, it’s like full of like my first app shit or stuff that hasn’t been updated in years. And then some really good things where the developers have to go around their ass to get to their elbow to make sure that it works correctly because of some of the a p i restrictions and other things. [01:20:40] Brett: And like when they, it used to be they would do these like featured on the app store content and they, and they would, they would highlight like an app I’d never heard of, and, and it would be a good find. These days they seem to have like these mainstays and they highlight their own products all the time. [01:20:57] Brett: Um, I can’t remember the last time, like something [01:21:00] like marked. It got highlighted by the App Store. [01:21:03] Christina: Yeah. And [01:21:04] Brett: still help reaching out to indie developers, but it seems less so [01:21:08] Christina: yeah, it seems less so, and I also, those are those things where like, you know, you don’t know, like I wonder how much that even does in terms of bringing people into it. Like right now there’s five ways to customize Word and it’s, you know, tricks about that. And I don’t know who cares about that. [01:21:23] Brett: Last time, last time Mark got featured on the app store, it resulted in about $500 over my usual monthly sales, which is for, for an indie app like Mark, that’s, that’s a sign, that’s a non-trivial amount of money. Um, it does bring in new users, but in general, like the app store is not my, I, I have no growth on the app store. [01:21:44] Brett: It’s impossible to find stuff. [01:21:46] Christina: which I guess that was sort of my thing is like not an it’s, it’s not that it’s non-trivial. I just kind of wonder like, at this point, um, and I know that there have been more of developers who’ve had to leave the Mac App store for various reasons because being there has, has been too much [01:22:00] of a problem, like having to do the work of managing both versions, sandboxing and, and, and, well, it’s not even so much sandboxing, it’s the app store way of sandboxing because, uh, you can still have a sandbox and like secured app, but then what the app store wants you to do goes like another level beyond that. [01:22:16] Christina: Um, so things like kaleidoscope don’t work, um, and uh, and, and things like that. But like, yeah, at this point I, I understand, I guess people doing it, but I wonder how much even modern Mac, like newbie, like Mac users, I, I, I guess there’s like, obviously with iOS it makes sense. That’s the only place you can go in. [01:22:38] Christina: The app store is good, but I. I wonder, I wonder how [01:22:42] Brett: in, so [01:22:43] Christina: right. But I wonder like how much people, you know, on like the, you know, the, the Normies are really actually even going to the app store. Um, I don’t know. [01:22:54] Brett: Set, set up is my largest source of monthly income now. Um, [01:23:00] yeah. Which I mean, like the sales have marked, have declined over time and the only reason set is the largest now setup. Hasn’t grown for a couple years. Uh, my income from it hasn’t. Um, but it states steady and, and it’s monthly recurring income. [01:23:17] Brett: And that’s worthwhile. Uh, kaleidoscope went subscription. [01:23:21] Christina: Yeah, it is. It’s gonna be going subscription, uh, with, uh, with the next version. Um, [01:23:27] Jeffrey: I bought, after I bought my expensive license. [01:23:29] Brett: And, and the subscription is not gonna be cheap. And I talked to, I talked to Florian about it, um, and they put a lot of thought into it, and I kind of get it because Mark, mark has thousands of users that I and I, I make about a grand a month on it. Um, even though like there are, there’s a, a small army of dedicated users that if I went subscription, I could be making a lot more money and I would have a lot more impetus to continue developing it. [01:23:59] Brett: [01:24:00] Um, and, and I’m starting to really see the wisdom of, of the subscription, uh, what do you call it? Uh, method, [01:24:10] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, um, it’s one of those things where like, I instinctively as like a user am annoyed with like the subscription for everything model. I get it. But I also have to like, understand well as an ongoing business concern if you wanna continue updating things and like Kaleidoscope and, and, and for instance, cuz I, I know we both talk to them, but it’s one of those things where this is an application that was always expensive that they took over, that had had three or four previous owners, had not been well maintained in years [01:24:37] Brett: And they fixed it and made a ton of cool improvements, like really [01:24:42] Christina: Really useful stuff. But also like, did you know the thing where they were un unbelievably, I think like, like good to the former owner. Like, you know, to people who had licenses before, like they were really good with support and other stuff, but they took this thing that basically even dead and had to do a rewrite. [01:24:59] Christina: Like I think in a [01:25:00] lot of ways it might have been easier if you had just started from scratch and said, let’s create a diff app that is, has similar features than trying to, to do what they did. And so it was a ton of work. Um, it, it’s an ongoing, you know, price concern. Um, you know, they had the, the Mac app store stuff. [01:25:15] Christina: The only thing, uh, I helped them with cuz they, they like let me know that it was happening. I helped them a little bit with the edit of their blog [01:25:21] Brett: Yeah, I, I did too. sent, they sent it out to all the, all the Mac writers. Um, I, uh, that does bring up one way that the App store is, uh, handy though, is subscriptions. Um, I, I, I used to be very much, I used to hate the subscription for everything idea, and it felt like, I felt like I was just constantly signing up for more and more subscriptions. [01:25:48] Brett: But I’ve gotten used to it. Like I get, I get receipts every month. I can keep track of my expenses. I know how to cancel a subs subscription. Um, most, most places give you a warning before your subs. If it’s a [01:26:00] yearly subs subscription, they’ll let you know in advance before that $99. Comes outta your account. [01:26:06] Brett: The app store makes it easy to see all of my app store-based subscriptions in one place, and I can just literally go down a list and cancel or renew all in one place rather than having to track down, uh, individual subscriptions that I bought outside of the app store. So that is a benefit to subscribing to apps through the app store. [01:26:28] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Um, that, that’s for sure. And that’s honestly what Apple is pushing on people. Like they want everybody to go subscription. Like, uh, particularly, uh, I mean I, I, I’m gonna be honest, I don’t think Apple cares that much about the Mac App Store, but it’s particularly one of those things that they’re trying to push everybody towards on, uh, iOS is, you know, first when in app purchase and now it’s like they want everything to be a subscription. [01:26:50] Christina: Um, cuz like, let’s be honest, that’s where Apple gets their money, uh, which is fine. [01:26:55] Brett: we, we, Fletcher and I both at the time, we started talking about how [01:27:00] we were gonna price NV Ultra. Um, both of us kind of were, we didn’t love the idea of a subscription, but the more we talked about it, the more it, it just made sense as a model. That’s the word I was looking for. A model subscription model. [01:27:14] Brett: Um, and it’s actually like, there are a lot of benefits to it, partly because it’s so compatible with the app store and, um, it’s the only way in the app store you can offer a free trial is if you have subscriptions in, in app purchases. Um, so, but I, I’m, I’m on board. I’ve, I’ve really come around on the subscription thing. [01:27:35] Christina: Yeah. I, I’ve come around on it in the sense that like, for apps that I care about and that I wanna do, where I get annoyed is if it’s an app that I don’t even know. It’s like I’m, it’s like I’m gonna use this twice a year. Like, I don’t wanna, I, I don’t [01:27:46] Brett: you sign up for the one month subscription and then try to remember to [01:27:50] Christina: try to remember to cancel Exactly. Or try to find another alternative or whatnot. [01:27:54] Christina: Right. Like, that’s where I think it’s hard for subscriptions to work. Like I think that if it’s gonna be something that you use ongoingly, I think. [01:28:00] Like on an ongoing concern. I think it makes sense and I don’t have a problem with it where it’s more, I think, problematic and, and maybe not, at least the way subscriptions work now, aren’t well designed for it, is that if it is like a one off utility, like I only use this a handful of times. [01:28:16] Brett: Wouldn’t it be cool if there was like a pay as you go, like a pay, like you wanna launch the app and you just paid 99 cents to launch it because you’re never gonna launch it again, or like, not, not for another six months. I definitely have apps like that, but I’m like, I might not use this again for a year and, and if I subscribe now, I will forget to, to cancel that subscription. [01:28:39] Brett: Yeah. [01:28:40] Jeffrey: Totally. [01:28:42] Brett: Yep. All right. Yep. We should go. [01:28:45] Jeffrey: It was a fun one. I gotta get outta here. [01:28:48] Brett: Yep. [01:28:49] Jeffrey: Get some sleep. You very good people. [01:28:51] Brett: some sleep. [01:28:52] Christina: Get some sleep. [01:28:54] Outro: The.[01:29:00]

Jeff’s gone this week, so Overtired returns to Original Recipe with Christina and Brett talking about Satanic Panics, TV, eating gluten free, and finding the shortest lines on your Disney vacation. Promo Swap The hosts of Techmeme Drive Home read all of the latest tech news so they can keep you up to date on the latest. Tune in every day for a full rundown of tech news with context and analysis. Timestamps [00:01:23] Taylor Swift and Satanism. [00:03:46] Spiritual Warfare. [00:07:25] True crime book adaptations. [00:11:24] Heart rate scare and medication. [00:14:47] Microdosing mushrooms for depression. [00:18:34] Airbnb problems. [00:22:16] Yeti’s welcome home kisses. [00:25:31] The influence of Keith Olbermann. [00:28:54] Road rage and relationships. [00:34:09] Party Down revival successful. [00:36:22] Promo Swap with Tech Meme Ride Home. [00:39:33] Gluten-free dining recommendations. [00:43:22] Disney World wait times app. [00:48:10] Interacting with the audience. Show Links Tailscale Cruel Doubt (book) Cruel Doubt (tv) Microdosing Shrooms Sports Night The Newsroom NewsRadio The Larry Sanders Show Shrinking BEEF Party Down Find me Gluten Free Disney World Lines Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript TV Party (Again) [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, this is Overtired. You knew that, but I’m, I’m just telling you, this is Overtired. And I’m Brett Terpstra. I’m here with Christina Warren. Jeff Severs. Gunzel is out this week. He is simultaneously out of town and sick. Um, like either, either one would be sufficient cause to miss an episode, but he did. [00:00:26] Brett: He had to go for both. He’s an overachiever. [00:00:30] Christina: That sucks. It does look like he is very cozy like that. The photo he sent us from, uh, his cabin, um, uh, near the, the, the lake looks [00:00:39] Brett: Lake Michigan. Yeah. [00:00:40] Christina: Michigan looks great, but um, that [00:00:43] Brett: or some great lake. I actually don’t know where [00:00:46] Christina: I was gonna say, I don’t know what great lake it is, but it’s, it, it looks very lake like. It looks great. So, you know, love that for them, but hate that he’s sick. [00:00:56] Brett: I was, uh, I was just in Chicago, so I’ve, I’ve [00:01:00] seen the Great Lakes this week too. Um, yeah. So let’s, let’s start with the mental health corner. I’ll let you go first. I have some, I have some fun updates, you know, my usual shit. But, uh, where, how are you doing? [00:01:14] Mental Health Corner: Satanic Panic edition [00:01:14] Christina: I’m doing okay. I’m doing okay. I’m in a weird situation where, um, I’m trying to decide if I wanna talk about this or not. I don’t think my mom listens to this podcast. [00:01:26] Brett: I, I explicitly tell my mother not to listen to this podcast. [00:01:30] Christina: Yeah, I’m pretty sure my mom does not listen to this podcast, so I feel like I can. Okay. I need some advice from you on this. All right. My mom saw an Instagram repost of a viral TikTok, saw some other things where people have posted imagery from Taylor Swift’s concerts, like the current one. And she called me very upset, telling me that, um, she’d hoped I hadn’t already bought tickets [00:02:00] for us in Atlanta because, um, she’s concerned that, that Taylor Swift is, is promoting, um, uh, satanism and, uh, and, and, and, and, and, and like witching, like, like Wiccan shit. [00:02:13] Christina: Like, like, like, like that stuff. Because apparently there is like a moment of the show that has some like kind of illusions to. Like, I guess 17th century, 18th century, like witchcraft sort of stuff. And some woman on TikTok, uh, is, is convinced that, that it’s, it’s all a sign and, and talking about all these things. [00:02:38] Christina: And, um, I tried to like convince her otherwise, but I haven’t really talked to her since that happened. And, um, you have more experience with this than I do. [00:02:51] Brett: Yeah. [00:02:52] Christina: How does one convince their parents that someone is not a satanist? [00:02:56] Brett: it depends on how reasonable their parents are [00:02:59] Christina: Okay.[00:03:00] [00:03:00] Brett: as far as I know. Your mom’s a pretty reasonable [00:03:02] Christina: She’s incredibly reasonable. Yeah. But I also like, don’t want her to be uncomfortable, but like, I, I also, this is like, just this is not true. [00:03:09] Brett: right. Well, so like for me, this would involve a whole discussion of the satanic panics that have happened in the eighties and are happening again now. Like there’s this whole resurgence of this, like, uh, ever since that little Naz video. [00:03:25] Christina: Right. [00:03:27] Brett: there’s just this whole, like the media is full of sat satanic images and it’s gonna drive kids to commit suicide and kill each other, and murders and mayhem. [00:03:38] Brett: Um, so that would be where I would start with my parents. He’s just talking about how destructive that was and how none of it has ever turned out to be true. But for my parents, it’s very much like they’re, they live in a world of spiritual warfare. If, if it’s not God giving them challenges, it’s the devil trying to keep them from God and like [00:04:00] literally everything they do in their life. [00:04:02] Brett: Is spiritual warfare. Um, and they just, they, they view the world in those terms. And, and that makes it very difficult to say, well, that’s not Satanic, when literally everything to them is either godly or satanic. There’s no like in between, uh, if you, if you have someone more reasonable, like your mother, um, just talking about maybe. [00:04:24] Brett: How accusations of witchcraft have never worked out well for humanity. Um, [00:04:31] Christina: Yeah, I, I ca I, I kept trying to be like, I was like, I was like, well, I guess maybe this is like Arthur Miller esque. I was like, I, I, you know, because if, if you squint, and the thing is, is that it’s, it’s during this one song, Willow, which she does have a, a video that she did some behind the scenes things in where there is like some like magical elements, mystical elements, and then there is like a, a, a. [00:04:57] Christina: Uh, something witch remix and I’m like, oh my[00:05:00] [00:05:00] Brett: Well, that’s, that’s where, that’s where the Satanic panic in the eighties began was with fantasy role playing games, Dungeons and Dragons, and like, like it’s fantasy. You know, it’s, it’s fantasy, it’s a story. And also be sure to ask like, what harm is being done? Like, who, who is being, like, what is the end result of, say Taylor Swift did openly embrace Wicca, um, and, and proclaimed herself a Wiccan and used all that imagery, like, who’s it hurting, like is wicken or truly destructive force in our like religious world? [00:05:38] Christina: I mean, my mom would probably say yes. She would probably say that this is someone like actively trying to like impart the devil onto people or something. But, but [00:05:48] Brett: a little less reasonable [00:05:50] Christina: I mean, I think that she would like. Intellectually understand, like what’s the harm? But I think that where she would draw the line, she’d be like, but I don’t want to be a [00:05:58] Brett: support it. [00:06:00] Sure, [00:06:00] Christina: Like, like that, that would be the difference, right? Like it’s wouldn’t be like, but so anyway, [00:06:05] Brett: So you, you need to convince her that that’s not actually what’s that? Show her, show her some of the more ludicrous accusations that are [00:06:14] Christina: This [00:06:14] Brett: there right [00:06:15] Christina: okay, this is what I wanted to do. Because like in, in like the, the post that she sent me, I was like, this person has things like tagged MK Ultra. I’m like, mom, I’m like, this is, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, none of this is in any way accurate. I’m like, this, this whole thing is, is, is is ludicrous. [00:06:35] Christina: I. She’s on, uh, Taylor Swift is a Christian. Like, she’s not like, uh, she’s not a Christian artist, but like, she’s like, she’s, that’s how she’s like, defined herself, so I’m not gonna, you know, like question that. Anyway, the whole thing, I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone. I was like, what’s happening here? [00:06:56] Christina: Um, but I, but I appreciate your, the, the, the Satanic [00:07:00] panic thing, I think is, is good grounding because that whole thing was bullshit and. We actually listened to a true crime book about that when I was in high school. Um, that was, uh, that, that had made for tea. Movie was made about it. It was, it was a book called Cruels Out and, um, it, it, uh, I think the guy that, um, Janet Maslin wrote that book about, uh, Joe McGinnis, I think he was the author. [00:07:27] Christina: But, um, Or Janet Malcolm rather. Um, but uh, it’s called, uh, cruels Out and in the ma tv movie. The reason I remember this is because we all listened to this audio book on a, on a trip, and then I found out that like Blithe Dan and Gwyneth Paltrow, before she was Gwyneth Paltrow, like were in this like made for TV movie, like adaptation of it. [00:07:51] Christina: Which, know, in 1998 was like a really funny thing to. [00:07:57] Brett: Sure. Do you want to hear [00:08:00] what my mom came at me with this morning? [00:08:01] Christina: Yes. [00:08:03] Brett: Um, she, she reads poorly sourced articles and takes ’em as truth, and then when the conversation over breakfast on Saturday morning quiets down, she has been in the habit of like doing these. What about. Um, statements and apparently, um, and I don’t, I don’t know how much veracity there is to this, but, uh, she claims that Joe Biden just signed a law that will turn all currency in the US digital and the government will have full access to all of our money. [00:08:36] Brett: And then she follows that, like if everything kind of went silent, cuz I don’t. I haven’t, I haven’t read what she’s talking about. I don’t, like, I can’t, I can’t argue against her sources. My, my usual reply is, what are your sources? But I, I didn’t even have the energy for that. And then she follows it up with, and, you know, the I M F has an agenda to control the world or some shit.[00:09:00] [00:09:00] Brett: Yo man, so everything went silent and we all just sat there in silence for a moment cuz I wasn’t gonna feed her like conspiracy. And, and my dad’s like, well on a lighter note and starts talking about like home improvement or whatever we usually talk about. It was, my mom’s definitely becoming a conspiracy theorist. [00:09:19] Brett: Like she latches onto stuff and gets really angry about it and like wants to talk about it. [00:09:24] Christina: Right. Which, which I, this is like, this is the, this is the one thing where like I, I, yeah. I become like worried about this. Cause I saw what like, Talk radio did to my dad. But my mom, I’ve always thought it was like much more sane and much more reasonable. Um, and look, if she doesn’t wanna go to a concert, if she doesn’t feel like it’s gonna be comfortable or whatever, that’s fine. [00:09:51] Christina: I just like don’t want her to miss out on a good experience because of some insane bitch on TikTok. [00:09:58] Brett: Yeah, and, and some [00:10:00] unfounded fear for sure. [00:10:01] Christina: Exactly. [00:10:03] Brett: All. [00:10:03] Christina: All right, so that’s sort of my mental health update. I’m trying to figure out like how to like, you know, tell someone I love more than anything else. This is, this isn’t true. [00:10:14] Brett: That can be difficult when someone comes up with, when someone comes at you with something that’s so far out of left field, uh, it’s, it gets really hard to like argue. Like, I mean, you could just say that’s ridiculous, [00:10:27] Christina: I mean, I did, [00:10:28] Brett: but that’s ineffective, [00:10:30] Christina: but I also wanna be like, You know, like make her feel comfortable, compassionate. Well, I, yeah, cause I’m compassionate cause it’s like, look, I look, if I had like a deep seated belief and like I thought that I saw something that was like, oh well this shows something that is gonna be supportive of something that I am very much against. [00:10:46] Christina: Cuz again, like her thing would never be like, oh, you can’t go and this is immoral and this shouldn’t exist. It would be like, I don’t wanna be a party to this. Which is a little more reasonable. It’s still not reasonable to, I think, [00:11:00] take cues from anyone who uses the MK Ultra hashtag, but, [00:11:05] Brett: Yeah. All right. [00:11:07] Christina: all right. All right. Let, let, let’s move on to you because I, I wanna hear about your updates, especially cause you’ve got a bunch of things you need to hear about, Yeti, need to hear about, uh, what, uh, what Michigan was like, need to hear about, uh, your, your Adderall shortage. [00:11:19] Brett: yeah. So the mental health update is, is. Relatively short. Um, my, so I think I probably talked about it at the time, but a couple months back I went to the ER because my watch told me that my heart rate had been elevated, like over one 20 bpm for more than 10 minutes, and it wanted me to. [00:11:40] Brett: Like, seek help if needed. Um, so I did, I don’t fuck around with my heart. We have a history of heart disease in my family. I take these things seriously and I went to the er, they ran tests after tests and EKGs and X-rays and I was fine, like ev in my, my blood pressure and my pulse were all fine the whole time I was [00:12:00] in the er. [00:12:00] Brett: And they discharged me after a couple hours and. Uh, maybe follow up with your doctor, see if there’s something else going on. But, so I made a, an appointment a couple months out. That was the soonest I could get in to see my doctor. And then my refill for Vivance came around and my psychiatrist noticed this. [00:12:19] Brett: Heart issue that sent me to the ER on my, on my record with no follow up yet from my doctor and said that she wasn’t comfortable refilling my meds, even though all my test results are on there and she can see them. Um, she’s like, if your doctor approves, he can refill your, your meds, but my doctor will never refill psych meds. [00:12:42] Brett: Like he, he will always defer that to his psychiatrist. So that means fortunately my appointment is on Monday, so I’m only gonna be without Vivance for a few days. Um, and. It sucks because it leads to like suddenly [00:13:00] going off it, uh, the, the dopamine crash leads to depression and then going back on it can trigger mania for me, uh, being bipolar and whatnot. [00:13:10] Brett: Um, so that’s a little sketchy. Hopefully it’s just a, a couple day thing. I really hope this isn’t the start of another like drought. Stimulants. Um, but I did, so a friend I’ve been talking for a while about microdosing and, uh, a buddy of mine, uh, finally got his shroom growing operation up and running. Um, so I got my first like eighth of shrooms and have just been taking like maybe a half inch of stem. [00:13:45] Brett: Or a small cap a day for the past few days. And I don’t trip at all. Like I barely, nothing seems to happen, but it does seem to help my mood. Um, I’m a lot less interested [00:14:00] in things like alcohol, uh, when, when I’m doing this microdosing and I need to, I need to do a little more research and find out what the actual dosage should be and how you tell, like with acid, it’s easier to. [00:14:13] Brett: Have micro dot blotters, but with shrooms, like you never know the potency of the mushroom, so it’s hard to be like, you need exactly, you know, a half inch of stem or whatever. Um, so I’m still trying to figure that out, but it seems to be working, it seems to be doing what I want it to do, where it, it helps my mood, it helps my creativity without triggering mania. [00:14:40] Christina: Okay, that’s all really good. [00:14:42] Brett: And like I’m depressed enough right now that it’s, um, it’s, it’s a little hard to tell that it if it’s working, but I can tell the before and after difference when I take my daily dosage. Um, So I, I think it does elevate my mood a little and maybe a [00:15:00] little stronger dose would help me. But I definitely, especially in a workday, I don’t want to end up tripping. [00:15:06] Brett: Like, I don’t, I don’t need to be in a Zoom meeting with like hallucinations or anything. [00:15:13] Christina: No, [00:15:14] Brett: that would, that would suck. So, so I’m being very careful about it, but I really, I think, I think I’m on the right path. I think this is a good, uh, A good antidepressant, uh, treatment that works with my bipolar. So thus far I give it, I give it one thumbs up and we’ll hope for better results moving forward. [00:15:36] Christina: Yeah, for sure. Um, and, um, and I, I hope. Yeah, I, I, I hope you can like, find some sort of up, like decent way, like you said, to be able to, to microdose this so that it’s, you know, yeah. Not gonna inhibit your work because it sounds like it could be a great thing, but it also feels like this is what’s hard about this sort of stuff. [00:15:56] Christina: Like Ketamine therapy is a similar. Thing [00:16:00] I, although I think guess that’s a little bit different because you can kind of do it in, in, you know, like treatment periods of time and, you know what I mean? Like, and they’re like, okay, this will have these long lasting effects. Whereas like, the microdosing in this way, you have to really think about, okay, how do I get the, um, whatever the therapeutic benefits are. [00:16:19] Christina: Um, but you know, I don’t wanna be baked. [00:16:23] Brett: Yeah, exactly. Yep. It’s a fine line, I think. Um, I’ve never done this small amount of mushrooms before, so I don’t know, like where the cutoff is. I’ve always been like, yeah, I just, I’ll have to eat three and just like see what happens. Um, so this like, just try a little bit, uh, like I don’t, I don’t know where they’ll line is. [00:16:44] Brett: I don’t know where you actually start tripping, but. I may find it if I keep experimenting. [00:16:50] Travels in Michigan [00:16:50] Brett: So anyway, yeah, last week I was in Michigan. Um, I spent three grand, um, on a trip [00:17:00] to Michigan, which is if I were gonna spend three grand on a trip, uh, Michigan is not where I would choose to do it, but I had a good. [00:17:09] Christina: Yeah, tell me about. [00:17:10] Brett: we, uh, we had our first night in Chicago with, uh, Dan, and we saw Erin Dawson in the morning, almost saw, [00:17:19] Christina: How’s she [00:17:20] Brett: oh, she’s great. She’s great. She, she was having fun. Her band is going on tour. Genital shame. That’s why she was in Chicago. Um, to, uh, to rehearse with her, her new lineup. Um, And, and Dan and his, his recent wife Hyundai are, are doing great. [00:17:39] Brett: And Chicago is full of vegan dining and gluten-free dining. And it was, we had some great food, great dinner, great breakfast, got on the road. Um, our Airbnb in Michigan, uh, was. It. It wanted to be nice. [00:18:00] Like you walk in and the first, the first, you just come off the road, right? See your head for the bathroom, and the first thing you discover is like a heated B day with a dryer and everything, and you’re like, okay, this place is gonna be all right. [00:18:13] Brett: But then you go to the sink and you try to get hot water out of it and it won’t come out. It just stays frigid. So we discovered you only get hot water in the kitchen and the bathroom if the dishwasher is running. Um, and, uh, but there was always hot water in the steam shower that it, it was a nice steam shower, big place, big couches, big screen tv, uh, a dock outside that led to a nice lake and like overall, like on the surface, seemed nice, had some problems. [00:18:46] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say this. Okay. I’ve had this experience with a number of Airbnbs, which is one of the reasons why like obviously you get more space and it can be a better option in some cases than a hotel, but sometimes I’m just like, I would rather [00:19:00] get a hotel, if I’m being honest, because it’ll be one of those things where you can tell like, it looks great, the photos look awesome, cuz that’s all they’re doing it for. [00:19:08] Christina: They’re doing it for the photos, they’re slapping it together, swimming for the photos, and then they’re not fixing things like in this case, oh, by the way, if you want hot water, you have to be running the dishwasher. [00:19:18] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And there was a, there was a bunch of stuff. [00:19:21] Christina: which, which, that to me like that, that signifies a pretty significant plumbing problem. [00:19:26] Brett: Yeah, [00:19:27] Christina: There’s something going on with like your, your hookups at that point, and I don’t know what those problems are or how to fix it. I just know that like, that [00:19:35] Brett: yeah. [00:19:36] Christina: my, my, my, my, my engineer like, you know, pattern recognition brain is like, oh, okay, that’s something. [00:19:44] Brett: Yeah. Um, like it was great having a whole house, um, having multiple bedrooms and room to have like L’s family over for movie nights, a whole kitchen. We could cook pizzas in and everything. We, uh, we, we, we made the [00:20:00] crust, we made our gluten-free crust and we baked them and set them on the table on top of parchment paper to cool. [00:20:07] Brett: And the kitchen table was this. Fake wood with cheap paint on it, and it turned white underneath where we put the pizza crust. Even though they were cool enough to hold in your hand and they weren’t steaming or anything and we just set them down, but they left these white circles on the table. So Ella and I compiled this whole list of everything that was wrong with the Airbnb so that if he came at us, For, for payment on that, I would just be like, well, you know, it was a nice state, but it would be a real shame to put all this stuff into a review for you. [00:20:41] Brett: Um, so we’re just kind of sitting on that. We haven’t heard anything. I think it’s fine, [00:20:45] Christina: No, I’m sure it’ll be fine. Usually what they care about are like the, the cleaning fees and like if you were to like, seriously break something like the other stuff, it, it’s unlikely in some of these cases that the, the owner even like, [00:21:00] Sees the place. You know what I [00:21:01] Brett: kind of, that’s kind of what I figured. Um, [00:21:04] Christina: yeah. [00:21:05] Brett: I did, I, I had tail scale set up and, uh, I, I was able to access my home network, my, all my, all my computers, including my sonology, all using tail scale, which is. Like, I’m used to setting up like a whole, uh, like dynamic d n s system and like, and like s SSHing and setting up all the ports and everything. [00:21:30] Brett: And with tail scale, it was just like to sign into my GitHub account and all of my, all of my network and machines were accessible and it was, it was really nice. Um, I appreciated that. And, and then there’s Yeti. The last part of my update, like Yeti was a trooper. Like we had a whole conversation before I left that, you know, asked him to try to stick around till we got back and like, but take care of yourself and you know, if shit [00:22:00] goes down, you have my permission to do what needs to be done. [00:22:03] Brett: And uh, he seemed to take that to heart and. My, our house sitter sent us pictures like every day of like Yeti eating and like sleeping under blankets and like curling up with her. And uh, and I got home and he was in great shape, like climbed on top of me and just kept giving me nose bumps for like, for like 20 minutes. [00:22:26] Brett: He just kept like bumping my nose with his nose, uh, which is his way of like giving kisses cuz he knows how much it annoys me when he starts licking. So he is learned to just bump my nose and it was just constant. Like, he just kept coming back and being like, I’m so glad you’re home. It was very nice. [00:22:43] Christina: Aw. All right. Well, I’m glad he’s doing okay, but that, that, that has to be so nerve-wracking for you. Like every time you even go for groceries, like, oh, you probably get [00:22:53] Brett: will he be? No, we go for groceries. We have to go to the co-op. Um, with all of our dietary [00:23:00] restrictions, grocery delivery isn’t available. Um, yeah, so we started watching Sports Night. Do you remember Sports [00:23:09] TV TV TV [00:23:09] Christina: I do remember Sports Night, Aaron Sorkin’s first show. [00:23:11] Brett: Yeah. And, and it has some, some of Aaron Sorkin’s best dialogue. Um, but it’s got a laugh track and it drives me nuts. [00:23:22] Brett: Like there’s obviously no studio audience. Like this is a canned laugh track. Why did, uh, like I think this was a nineties thing, [00:23:30] Christina: it was, [00:23:32] Brett: Just tell people something’s funny by adding the laugh [00:23:35] Christina: Right. Well, because, I mean, look, this was before they were doing the one, the, the, um, one camera sitcoms, um, and um, like, like a news radio, which is, is similar to sport science some ways, but was actually shot in front of a [00:23:49] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And, and it shows. [00:23:51] Christina: And it does. Right. Um, but, but that was a show where I remember on the commentary tracks for, for that show on, on, when that came out on D B D, [00:24:00] Paul Sims, the, the creator, talking about the fact that that would’ve been, like, had they made it like in the early two thousands, like if they’d made it like eight years later, like after it debuted, like, you know, if they made it five years after it went off the air, it would’ve been a single camera comedy. [00:24:19] Christina: Um, and, uh, but, but you know, when they made it, it wasn’t, and sports night, I think even more so like the second season, they, they definitely like reduced the laugh track more [00:24:29] Brett: I, I’m only on the first season, so I was hoping that would be true. [00:24:32] Christina: It, it, it is. But s sports night was, it’s, it’s such a shame cuz it was on A, B, C and A B. C had, like, they had no idea what they had. [00:24:40] Christina: And, and I, I don’t even wanna say that. Like they fucked up and that it was like this show that was going to be a hit. Cuz I don’t think it would’ve been, I don’t think there’s any scenario where that show ever would’ve been a hit. [00:24:50] Brett: could fly now though. [00:24:52] Christina: Yes, yes. But I mean, in that era, and I mean on that network and I mean in that, [00:24:57] Brett: Yeah, [00:24:58] Christina: Like, [00:25:00] because cuz it came out in, in 98, 99. [00:25:03] Christina: Um, it was, it was like a year before West Wing. And West Wing was 99, I think. Um, 99 or 2000. But, um, it was, uh, a great show. It’s so, it’s funny because I always mentioned sports people and I’m like, yeah, it’s like, it’s, it’s his first show about Keith Alderman. Um, and, and, and, and people are like, huh? And I’m like, I’m like, this is how influential, like, like Keith Orman is. [00:25:31] Christina: It’s like he’s been the, the, the, you know, the, the, the reason for not one, but two A [00:25:36] Brett: the, the Muse. The muse [00:25:38] Christina: Muse. Absolutely. I’m like, like, absolutely. It’s like, you know, the newsroom and, and sports night. Like it’s totally, it, it’s like all, it’s all Keith Warman, but. Uh, no, but, but, but, uh, yeah, the show it, um, September 22nd, 98. [00:25:53] Christina: So, yeah. So when it debuted, like there was just nothing that you could, um, [00:26:00] there’s no way. I don’t think that. Uh, in that sitcom environment, like when News Radio, which was on a network that was better for sitcoms, which was, uh, N B C. Uh, but the, the schedulers hated news Radio was the real thing. Um, the, the, the network president didn’t like it, it did very well when it had a consistent and good time slot, but they, [00:26:20] Brett: so good. [00:26:22] Christina: News radios. News radios, and I think news radio could have worked in the nineties. Sports night. I don’t know, like. I, I feel like it would work now, and I feel like it would’ve worked like five years after it came out. But like, we needed Malcolm in the middle, you know what I mean? Like, like, like, like, like, like we needed that we needed, we needed brick teacher base as the office. [00:26:45] Christina: Like we needed [00:26:46] Brett: I’ve, I’ve gone back, I went back and started watching Malcolm in the Middle again, and it, it’s not like news radio totally held up for me. Like I, I breezed through, I binged like all of that [00:27:00] again, just this year. Um, Malcolm in the middle. It’s been a, it’s been like, uh, I got nothing else to watch. I guess I’ll watch him, Malcolm. [00:27:07] Christina: totally. But it is one of those like, like family sitcoms. My my point being though, like that was the first one like that in Scrubs and Malcolm in the Middle was before Scrubs, but they were [00:27:15] Brett: I had the same experience with Scrubs. Can’t do it. [00:27:18] Christina: Scrubs holds up for me, but I also insist on watching it with the original music, um, [00:27:24] Brett: Oh, I know we’ve talked [00:27:25] Christina: Yeah, we’ve talked about that. But, but Scrub, but, but, but, but, but Scrubs holds up for me. But both of those were like the first, like, you know, there was the, the UK office of course, but I mean like in terms of US tv where you were like, okay, we can play with what a sitcom is format wise, because Larry Sanders. [00:27:42] Christina: Didn’t have a laugh track and, and, um, uh, many of the writers in the Larry Sanders show also worked on News radio and, and then went on to like be people like Joe App Patel. Um, and so, but that was an H B O show, right? And I, I feel like Larry Sanders in many ways is sort of a, like, [00:28:00] if that, that approach had been taken, you know, um, like for, for Sports Night, I think sports, And if SportsLine were, say, on HBO o, that would’ve been one thing, but it wasn’t, it was on abc. [00:28:11] Christina: And so I think you needed like the Malcolm in the middle of the scrubs. Really, the Malcolm in the middle is to be like, okay, we can re, we can have a different thing than the normal, you know, four camera, uh, television sitcom with the laugh track. [00:28:25] Brett: Yes. Can I tell you about another show that I’m sure you haven’t [00:28:29] Christina: No, please do. [00:28:30] Brett: Um, there’s this new Netflix series. Mini-series show. It’s a show, it’s a series. They call it a series, right? It’s like 10 episodes. I don’t think, I don’t think like, based on the ending, I don’t think they planned for a second season. [00:28:44] Brett: I think it’s a thing, but it’s called Beef, uh, with Stephen Ewen and Ellie Wong. [00:28:51] Christina: Okay. Yeah, I, I, I’ve heard of this. I think. [00:28:53] Brett: Yeah, and it’s like these two main characters get into a road rage incident in the first [00:29:00] episode, and it becomes like they, they start getting each other’s like license plates and tracking each other down. And this weird relationship develops as like as the pranks or the revenge intensifies. [00:29:14] Brett: They also develop this kind of like respect for each other and. I won’t give away the ending, but like through the course of it, there’s absolutely a relationship between these two people who on the surface hate each other, want, want to destroy each other’s lives. And, and Ali Wong plays a, a rich woman who just became even richer and, and Stephen plays a. [00:29:38] Brett: Contractor whose business is failing and is scraping by and living in his, in an apartment with his brother. And like the two of them come together in these weird ways. And it is, I binged it over like three days and totally, totally. The ending is totally worth it, like it pays off. So if, if you’re looking for a [00:30:00] short run of a show, um, I found. [00:30:04] Brett: As compelling, if not more compelling than I found Wednesday. And I thought Wednesday was pretty good, but [00:30:09] Christina: Wednesday was okay. I, I like Ali Wong and I like Steve Wynn. [00:30:12] Brett: yeah, Ali Wong is so good in this too, like all of her like kind of, uh, neurosis, but confidence, like confident neurosis, that’s what I would call Ali Wong. Um, and it all comes through really well in this character. She’s in. She plays it excellently. [00:30:29] Christina: Okay. I, I, I, I will, I will give this a watch. I’m looking at this now. This was an A 24 show and apparently there was a bidding war. What’s interesting to me about this is, I guess it is just for movies, but I thought that Apple had some sort of exclusive deal with a 24. And, and clearly that is not the case, but it seeming like this would’ve been, it probably wouldn’t have had a second season either, but like this would’ve been like a good Apple TV thing. [00:30:54] Brett: Are you watching? Um, is it shrinking? Shrinking on Apple [00:31:00] tv? [00:31:00] Christina: am not, [00:31:01] Brett: It is really good. [00:31:03] Christina: are you watching new Ted Lasso? [00:31:05] Brett: Yes, of course. Absolutely. Loving it. Loving it. It’s maybe the best season yet, but, um, shrinking. Uh, I had this funny experience. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a fun, it’s a fun show and it’s about, uh, therapists and, uh, one of them is played by dude, from how I Met Your mother, like the big dude. [00:31:27] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:31:27] Brett: Meeting, forgetting Sarah Marshall [00:31:29] Christina: Jason Siegel. [00:31:30] Brett: Yeah. Thank you. Um, and then the other one, and this is the way l put it, uh, the, the elder therapist on this, in this group is played by the guy who starred next to Chewbacca. That was Elle’s description. Like, not Han Solo, but the guy who played next to Chewbacca and I think Harrison Ford would, would appreciate that, that that was how my girlfriend [00:32:00] knew him [00:32:00] Christina: I mean, I, I don’t know if he would, I, I, I mean that I, I honestly don’t know if he would appreciate that or not. I think that he’d be like, hi, I’m Harrison fucking Ford, [00:32:11] Brett: also, Indiana Jones. [00:32:12] Christina: Jones, [00:32:13] Brett: may, you may be familiar with my work. [00:32:15] Christina: I was gonna say, it’s like you, you there, there’s a bunch of other things. No, but I have seen, I have seen the trailers or the, the ads for this, but I haven’t watched it, but I, I have been [00:32:24] Brett: It’s good. It’s good. [00:32:25] Christina: good. Okay. All right. I’ll watch it. Um, [00:32:28] Brett: to it every week. [00:32:29] Christina: okay. Um, I will see if I have access to, um, all of, uh, um, I’ll see if I have access to all of those on, on the way that I have access to some of the press stuff early. Um, because my, my, my, my problem with this now, and I’ve become one of those people that I hate for certain shows. [00:32:51] Christina: I will absolutely still watch like week by week, you know, but when I’m getting into a new thing, especially like if I’ve missed it when like it. Started, it’s [00:33:00] hard sometimes I’m like, I just wanna binge it, but like if I get into it when it premieres, um, then I’m okay. Um, like, uh, the final season of succession is, is airing right now. [00:33:12] Christina: And so it’s like the best thing that happens on Sundays is, you know, like 6:00 PM uh, Pacific Time. I’m like, all right, I can fire up the H B O Max app. I can watch success. [00:33:24] Brett: What was the, what was the, uh, apple TV show with, uh, [00:33:30] Christina: Adam Scott Severance. [00:33:32] Brett: severance. Um, I, I think that has another season coming. [00:33:36] Christina: it does. [00:33:36] Brett: Yeah. That’s exciting [00:33:38] Christina: because they, uh, the [00:33:39] Brett: Party Party Down is back on right [00:33:41] Christina: is, I No, I was gonna say I [00:33:42] Brett: good. [00:33:43] Christina: No, it is so good. No, I was gonna say though, that’s, that, that’s the unfortunate thing about Party Down is that they couldn’t get Lissie Kaplan because she was doing stuff, but they had to work around Adam’s Scott’s schedule for a severance. [00:33:53] Christina: So like [00:33:55] Brett: yes, I totally miss Lizzie Kaplan. I, the show is not the same [00:34:00] without her, but it is still, it’s still very good. [00:34:03] Christina: Is still very good. and I, and I’m very, and I’m very glad that it, that it’s come back. Also, following up on a thing that I ranted about, Netflix did go ahead and just pay off the money. And now that they, they are the exclusive home of everything, arrested Development. So they took a arrested development off of Hulu, which fine, I don’t care. [00:34:23] Christina: Um, you know, and, uh, but at least seasons four and five are available. Um, so, so it did not expire and leave. They, they paid the money cuz yes, Netflix paid the money. It’s, I’m sure it was a very small amount of money to renegotiate on. And Disney has also made it clear that like they are okay with licensing things to other streamers. [00:34:46] Christina: It’s like they don’t need ownership. It’s like, and you already have part ownership of the last two seasons just. It’s the exclusive home, it’s fine. But, um, that made me think of that cuz I was like, oh, you know, party down. [00:35:00] Is I, I think that it, coming back, I think it’s, I think it’s more successful. Like, I think the episodes are better, uh, than rest of development. [00:35:07] Christina: Um, at least the, the first edit, I think when they reedited season four, rest development, season four was fine. I think the first frame of it is, I, I get what they were trying to do. It didn’t work at all. Um, But, uh, but yeah, no, I, I love Lizzie Kaplan. She’s about to be in. Um, maybe it has started, but, uh, but, but, uh, fatal Attraction. [00:35:31] Christina: Oh, no, no. It starts, um, uh, in, uh, like three weeks. They’re, uh, they’re doing a Fatal Attraction reboot on Paramount Plus, [00:35:38] Brett: All right. I have Paramount Plus. I’ll watch that. [00:35:41] Christina: I mean, s. [00:35:42] Brett: I’ll watch anything. Lizzy [00:35:44] Christina: Me too. B b. But this is like this, this is actually a really good cast. So it’s Lucy Kaplan playing the Alex Forest character. That’s, uh, um, Glen Close’s character and Fatal attraction. Joshua Jackson is playing. Dan, who was the, um, uh, Michael Douglas character and [00:36:00] Amanda, Pete is playing. Um, uh, Beth, who was the, uh, the wife who’s the actress’s name I can’t think of, uh, right now. [00:36:08] Christina: Um, so. I’m, I’m super into this. [00:36:13] Brett: Nice. Yes. All right. Um, should we do some gratitude? [00:36:19] Christina: No. First we need to do a, uh, promo swap. [00:36:22] Brett: Oh my God. Like the whole reason we did the episode this week was cuz we had a pro. Thank you so much. I’m, I’m so glad you’re on the ball. These mushrooms are not helping. [00:36:32] Promo Swap: Techmeme Ride Home [00:36:32] Brett: Um. So this week we are doing a promo swap with the Tech Meme Ride Home. When the New Yorker magazine asked Mark Zuckerberg how he gets his news. [00:36:43] Brett: He said, the one news source he definitely follows is Tech Meme. For four years now, the Tech Meme Ride Home podcast has been Silicon Valley’s favorite tech news source. The podcast has become so successful in fact that it launched a venture fund where the [00:37:00] listeners to the show are the LPs and the fund. [00:37:03] Brett: The tech meme ride home is like T L D R as a service. It’s not just the latest headlines from the world of tech, it’s also the context around the latest news of the day. It’s all the top stories, the top posts and tweets and conversations about those stories as well as the behind the scenes analysis. [00:37:22] Brett: Guests who have come on to lend their expertise include Andreessen Horowitz’s, Chris Dixon, and Bloomberg’s Apple Rumor King Mark Germond. The folks at Tech Meme are online all day reading everything so they can catch you. So listen to the One podcast. Anyone who’s anyone in Silicon Valley listens to you every single day. [00:37:43] Brett: Search your podcast app now for Ride Home and subscribe to the Tech Meme Ride Home podcast just in case Overtired has had not been giving you enough tech lately. [00:37:54] Christina: Yeah. Um, also it’s, it’s great, uh, TLDR podcast and it’s from, uh, Brian McCullough who, um, [00:38:00] is, uh, is involved with it, who, uh, did the internet history podcast, um, and the book, um, how the, how the internet was built or how the web was built or something. Um, Brian’s great. I’ve been on, um, his podcast a number of times, and, and Te Ride Home is a very good, uh, I hate to agree with Mark Zuckerberg on anything but. [00:38:17] Christina: Where I go for like my tech news and up and update and, and the, the Ride Home podcast is really good. [00:38:22] Brett: Yeah, that, that wouldn’t have been the opening line. I’d have gone for like name dropping Mark Zuckerberg as like your opening line for the promo read, but they wrote it. I went with it. [00:38:34] Christina: yeah. Uh, but, but it genuinely is like a website I go to that and Media Gazer, which is like the, the, the media version of Tech Meme. I go to those sites like nonstop. So, [00:38:45] Grapptitude [00:38:45] Brett: All right. So my gratitude, gratitude, um, my gratitude is, uh, an app on my phone that came in so handy on this trip. It’s called Find Me Gluten Free. [00:39:00] Um, or find me GF as it appears on your phone. And it is a comprehensive list of all the, it’s like Yelp, but for gluten-free dining. And it will find you all of the restaurants that either have gluten-free options or a dedicated gluten-free menu, or our dedicated gluten free. [00:39:22] Brett: And you can see reviews, you can read from actual. Like people with celiac disease that absolutely like have to know what’s gluten free. Like I’m, I’m sensitive to gluten. It causes me intestinal problems. Uh, but I will survive. But, but to have like people who can literally die from it. Writing the reviews, uh, gives me a lot of reassurance and it found us some amazing food that, that, like searching gluten free on Yelp did not find. [00:39:55] Brett: Um, so I, I highly recommend. Find me [00:40:00] gluten free. You can pay for like the paid tier seems to be really geared towards Celiac, um, and, and of less interest to me, like just the free version alone. Did everything I needed it to do. Um, Which is not to say I am opposed to paying for it, uh, just none of the perks of the paid version really seemed, uh, of importance to me thus far. [00:40:28] Brett: Um, so, so even if you’re, you’re gluten free and just want a free app to, to explore with, it is, it’s a great choice. [00:40:37] Christina: Fantastic. Fantastic. So, um, that’s really good, I think for people to, like, that’s, that’s a good thing to know, like, It’s good to have these sorts of alternatives to some of, like the, the big mainstays, especially, um, if they’re updated. Well, [00:40:52] Brett: Yeah, and that’s the thing, like there’s a big, there’s a big. Audience, big enough user base that it actually is very [00:41:00] complete and full of reviews. Like even more reviews for most of these restaurants than you would find on like Yelp. And, and I think that’s critical for an app like this is to have enough people, uh, submitting restaurants and reviewing restaurants to actually make it worthwhile. [00:41:16] Brett: And it, it’s pulled that off. [00:41:20] Christina: For sure. So my, um, pick. Um, but no, but I like that it, it, and it, I, like I said, like I think keeping like those communities, like active is the hardest thing, so, you know what I mean? Like, so it’s, I’m glad, glad that you found an app that has like a, a, a, a wide, uh, user base, and that’s really good. On that. On that note, I’m also going to have a um, uh, iPhone app. [00:41:46] Christina: Um, this was one that I used. When I was at Disney World actually, and, but it’s spring break. This might be useful to people if they are going [00:42:00] to like the, the, the Disney parks or, or whatever. Um, it does cost money if you wanna get the, the full benefits, but honestly, it’s worth it. So the whole thing is, is that, um, the, the. [00:42:14] Christina: Like default, like Disney World and like Disneyland app suck, like the Disneyland app from what I understand is better. And my, my past experience with that one has been better. But like the actual like Disney experience app for Disney for, for Walt Disney World and, and all those assorted parks in Orlando is terrible. [00:42:31] Christina: Like for as much money as Disney has, and for as much as you would think that having a good app experience would be something that would be really good for their bottom line in terms of having people spend more money and whatnot, they really. It’s, it’s bizarre to see a company that has like nailed every other aspect of the experience. [00:42:49] Christina: Just has like, the tech is terrible and like, like it’s, it’s both the website and the, the app. It’s just not great. Um, but one of the nice features about the app when [00:43:00] it’s working is that it shows you like what your line time is for various rides. Like, like, like what? Like what, what, what the weight is. [00:43:07] Brett: What is the app called? [00:43:10] Christina: This app is called, uh, Disney World Lines, um, parentheses, TPS from Touring Plans, but this is better than the actual Disney Experience app. [00:43:21] Brett: Yeah, I hear you. I just, I just said I was waiting to add it to the show notes. [00:43:26] Christina: No, I know, but, but I was trying to give some, but I’m trying to give some context to why I’m, I’m recommending this app because, because people would be like, why would I pay for this? When I can get in the Disney Experience app, I can get an update of what the standby line time is. [00:43:38] Brett: Yep. All right. [00:43:40] Christina: that time isn’t accurate. [00:43:41] Christina: Sometimes it is accurate, sometimes it’s way behind. Sometimes it’s, you know, like, uh, an actual line time might be more like 15 minutes and it’ll show 45, or it’ll show two and a half hours and maybe it’ll be like four. So what, um, uh, the, this, uh, this. App from touring plans.com [00:44:00] does, but it’s a, um, it, it’s lines is, is is their app. [00:44:03] Christina: They have a number of different ones. They have one for Disneyland, they have one for Disney World, and then they have their, um, uh, one for, for, um, Orlando. Um, it’s uh, it’s $18 for a one year subscription. And you’re probably only gonna use the app once. So I’m warning you on that. Right. However, similar to your, like a gluten free dining app, this is a crowdsourced thing where you can see the timelines for both attractions and for, for, for dining. [00:44:33] Christina: Um, actually where you can. Speed the various parks and you can say, this is how long you’re expected to wait. And you can get ride suggestions like based on like the crowds and based on trends and past days to figure out like, do I wanna wait in this line or do I wanna, do, I wanna wait in this one? And, and, and what’s the overall park busy level? [00:44:54] Christina: And so it’s really useful to be able to know, hey, [00:45:00] Like, and you can help it out. So like, it has a timer built into the app. So like, you can start the timer, like, I got in line now, and then I stop it when, um, you know, I’m getting off and it’ll let me know like how accurate, you know, like the, the, the posted time was. [00:45:13] Christina: And, and that feeds, feeds the recommendations. [00:45:16] Brett: That’s worth $18. If it saved you, like after what you paid for your, your Disney World Pass, if it can save you from spending four hours and align when you didn’t expect to for something that wasn’t like your primary focus for the day, that’s, that’s $18. Like you’ve saved that much money by like getting in shorter lines and taking more advantage of the park. [00:45:40] Christina: 100%. I completely agree. Um, my point was just that there, I know there are going to be some people who are just like, I’m not paying for this and this [00:45:48] Brett: I’ve al I’ve already paid to go to Tissie World. I’m not gonna pay for [00:45:52] Christina: I’ve already paid to go to Disney. I’ve paid a lot of money to go to Disney. I don’t, I don’t wanna, um, uh, do this. I [00:46:00] get that. [00:46:00] Christina: But this was, this was an app. Just you you’re talking about, um, um, being able to find, you know, uh, recommendations and ti and, you know, things are in food. Maybe think, oh, right. This was actually a really useful app that I, I used while at Disney. [00:46:15] Brett: Yeah, these are good, good travel apps [00:46:17] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. And, and actually, uh, we recommended this one by, uh, by Corey Doctoral. [00:46:22] Christina: So thank you Corey, for the, for the, for the, for the tip. And, um, I appreciate that. And, uh, yeah, so that’s, that’s my pick. [00:46:33] Brett: Nice. All right. Well, we have a, a shorter, shorter episode this week, um, minus Jeff, uh, basically 15 minutes that, uh, That, that that would’ve been Jeff time if he were here. But no, um, instead we, that was a good episode. It was a little me media heavy, maybe. [00:46:56] Christina: No, I think it was good. It [00:46:57] Brett: of [00:46:58] Christina: No, it was a good return. It was, honestly, it [00:47:00] was a good return to form. Like I think this was good. This was like a classic over, uh, this look, again, this was like the, the original recipe, Overtired, the original configuration. We, we miss Jeff and, and we hope that his stomach is feeling better. [00:47:12] Christina: I think Jeff is definitely made the show better, but like, this is like a good throwback like, you know, season two episode of the. [00:47:20] Brett: we got some like Christina dropping knowledge about like nineties tv. Like that’s, that’s nostalgic for me. [00:47:28] Christina: Uh, yeah. [00:47:29] Brett: we just don’t do that enough anymore. [00:47:32] Christina: We don’t, we don’t. No, but I’m, because I’m gonna go back and I’m gonna watch beef now, which, uh, um, which is, which is great. Um, okay. I think I will too. I’m excited about that. Yeah. [00:47:44] Brett: Well, Christina, get some sleep. [00:47:46] Christina: Get some sleep, Brett. [00:48:00]