The Holy Post

Despite the uproar over the leaked Supreme Court decision overturning Roe, it turns out 80 percent of Americans have a nuanced view of the issue. Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss responses to last week’s show and ask why are we nuanced about some moral issues and absolutist about others. Then, conservative Christians are attacking Tim Keller for his winsome, non-partisan approach to Christianity. They say winsomeness may have worked in the past, but now the culture war is so dangerous that we need a more aggressive and offensive approach. Are they right? Skye interviews Eboo Patel, the founder and president of Interfaith America, about his new book “We Need to Build: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy.” Patel, a Muslim-American, talks about the transformative role Christianity had on his calling, why interfaith cooperation is essential, and what concerns him about the current culture of activism in America. Plus, scientists discover the Mariah Carey of jellyfish. “Christian Asks” Patreon Bonus: https://www.patreon.com/posts/66555715/ News Segment 0:00 - Intro and updates Christian’s documentary - https://thegirlwhoworefreedom.com 3:29 - News of the Butt https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bloody-belly-comb-jelly-pooping_n_625e59f1e4b066ecde16f302 10:03 - Responses to last week’s show 17:03 - Nuance versus absolutism 28:55 - Tim Keller and the war on winsomeness55:26 - Holy Post Patreon http://patreon.com/holypost Interview with Eboo Patel“We Need to Build: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy” - https://amzn.to/3MquyqO Interfaith America - https://www.interfaithamerica.org57:30 - Eboo Patel - intro 59:20 - Background and calling 1:14:13 - Culture of activism in America 1:26:45 - Interfaith cooperation1:31:49 - CreditsResources and articles mentioned in news segment: ProGrace: prograce.orgHoly Post Episode 254: Rethinking Our Response to Abortion with Angie Weszely - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLa-rjvjAtk“America’s Abortion Quandry,” Pew Research Center - https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/05/06/americas-abortion-quandary/“Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid” by Jonathan Haidt - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/Tim Keller Twitter thread - https://mobile.twitter.com/timkellernyc/status/1520107742110834699James Wood, “How I Evolved on Tim Keller” - https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2022/05/how-i-evolved-on-tim-kellerSamuel D. James, “Is it Time to Move Past Tim Keller?” - https://samueldjames.substack.com/p/is-it-time-to-move-past-tim-keller?s=rDavid French, “A Critique of Tim Keller Reveals the Moral Devolution of the New Christian Right” https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/a-critique-of-tim-keller-reveals?s=rRod Dreher, “Tim Keller & Myxomatosis Christians” - https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/tim-keller-david-french-myxomatosis-christians/ The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

The leak of a draft ruling by the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v Wade has the entire country talking. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the overreactions from both the Left and Right, speculate about what a post-Roe America might look like, examine the complicated history of abortion including why many evangelicals originally supported Roe but then dramatically flipped on the issue, and share their hopes for what comes next. Then, acclaimed historian Mark Noll talks about the 30th anniversary of his influential book, “The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind.” In the early 1990s, Noll celebrated the strength of the evangelical church, but he warned about a dangerous shortage of evangelical scholars. Today, he fears the opposite. While evangelical scholarship has never been stronger, Noll is deeply concerned about an anti-intellectual church taken with conspiracy theories and partisan politics. Patreon Bonus segment: https://www.patreon.com/posts/66264481/ News Segment 0:00 - Intro 2:31 - Supreme Court leak - initial reactions 8:49 - Changing views on abortion within evangelical Christianity 19:29 - Overreactions on both sides 33:48 - Upsides 42:55 - Downsides 47:32 - “The Southernization of the Pro-Life Movement” Resources mentioned: Advisory Opinions podcast - “Making Sense of the Supreme Court Leak” Part 1: https://advisoryopinions.thedispatch.com/p/making-sense-of-the-supreme-court?s=r Part 2: https://advisoryopinions.thedispatch.com/p/making-sense-of-the-supreme-court-8db?s=r “If Roe is Overturned, Where Should the Pro-Life Movement Go Next?” by Tish Harrison Warren - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/08/opinion/abortion-roe-dobbs-pro-life.html “Apocalypse Now: How the Left and Right Get Danger Wrong” by Michael Wear - https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/april-web-only/political-apocalypse-christianity-right-left-evangelicals.html “This Really Is a Different Pro-Life Movement” by Daniel K. Williams - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/south-abortion-pro-life-protestants-catholics/629779/ Sponsor 57:22 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Interview with Mark Noll “The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind” - https://www.eerdmans.com/Products/8204/the-scandal-of-the-evangelical-mind.aspx 58:32 - Mark Noll intro 59:33 - Updated version - why now? 1:02:19 - Christian higher education “We the Fallen People” by Robert Tracy McKenzie - https://amzn.to/3M7oHGO 1:08:50 - Fundamentalism and fear 1:15:33 - Evolution and CRT 1:26:08 - Christian curiosity 1:30:19 - Credits The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

In the 1980s, Frank Peretti’s best-selling novels about the spiritual war between angels and demons captivated evangelicals, but they also fostered a belief that anything out of step with conservative white Christianity was downright satanic. The podcast crew discuss their own experiences with Peretti’s books and how they’ve shaped today’s culture war—including a congresswoman’s recent statement that Catholics helping immigrants is proof the church is run by Satan. Then, Beth Allison Barr is back one year after the release of her provocative book “The Making of Biblical Womanhood,” to discuss what she’s learned from her critics as well as from her fans. And she offers pastoral advice for those struggling in patriarchal Christian communities. Plus, a family finds a tasty time capsule in their bathroom wall, and the underappreciated charms of Dubuque, Iowa. Patreon Bonus: https://www.patreon.com/posts/65967806/ News Segment 0:00 - Intro 2:24 - Dubuque travelogues 8:10 - Tasty time capsule https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/illinois-family-finds-bag-preserved-mcdonalds-food-half-century-ago-ho-rcna26252 16:49 - Fantasy novels and satanic conspiracies https://religionnews.com/2022/04/28/marjorie-taylor-greene-feuds-with-conservatives-catholics-over-satan-remarks-border-bishops-satan/https://www.vox.com/culture/23033782/frank-peretti-this-present-darkness-piercing-the-darkness-cultural-influence-moral-panic 46:56 - Patreon bonus plug https://www.patreon.com/posts/65967806/ Interview with Beth Allison Barr “The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth” book - https://amzn.to/3KNm8s0Postscript to book - http://cdn.bakerpublishinggroup.com/processed/book-resources/files/The_Making_of_Biblical_Womanhood_-_Postscript_Chapter.pdf?1650389860 47:53 - Intro 48:31 - Journey with book 55:39 - History and theology 58:58 - Untangling cultural elements in scripture 1:03:29 - Hindsight and reflection on critiques 1:12:46 - Role of social media 1:15:59 - Three FAQs https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2022/03/ideas-about-women-matter-a-resource-list-for-women-in-church-history/ 1:22:17 - Hope? 1:25:09 - Credits The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

The Supreme Court is hearing arguments in a case about a public high school football coach who prays on the field. Is he violating the First Amendment because he’s a state-funded employee engaging in religious activity on the job? Or, is his religious expression protected by the First Amendment? David French explains the court’s history on public school teachers and free speech, why he thinks the coach is likely to win, and why religious liberty protections have never been stronger. Then, French talks about his first encounter with Critical Race Theory as a law student at Harvard 30 years ago. Skye asks, if CRT has been around for so long, why is it only now being seen as a threat to both America and Christianity? French explains how the definition of CRT has changed, how it’s been leveraged by media voices on the political right since 2020, and why the issue of race may be leading to a new schism in the American church. 00:00 - Intro 00:45 - Football Prayer “Why We Fight About Football Prayers” - https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/april-web-only/scouts-football-prayers-kennedy-bremerton-first-amendment.html 31:07 - CRT hysteria “How the Fight Over Critical Race Theory Became a Religious War” - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/how-the-fight-over-critical-race?s=r “Racial Compromise and Complicity at Grove City College” - https://jemartisby.substack.com/p/racial-compromise-and-complicity?r=dfab0&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web 1:04:05 - Credits

The battle between Governor DeSantis and Disney is heating up in Florida. The culture war may be good for politicians, but why is it bad for Christians? Then, a former White House spokesperson says if Christians want to win the culture war they need to have more babies. Kaitlyn and Skye explain why that strategy contradicts the New Testament. Phil looks at Grove City College’s anti-CRT statement and why the school’s attack on Jemar Tisby amounts to revisionist history. Then, Kaitlyn talks with Rachel Anderson from the Center for Public Justice about her advocacy for paid family leave, why the policy is proven to reduce abortions, and how it fits with Christian theology and ethics. Plus, Phil is building a big beautiful wall. News Segment0:00 - Intro 6:15 - DeSantis vs. Disney 25:36 - Christian babies and culture wars https://www.salon.com/2022/03/30/kayleigh-mcenany-wants-more-christian-babies-its-an-overt-call-out-to-paranoia/ 38:07 - Grove City College and Jemar Tisby https://jemartisby.substack.com/p/racial-compromise-and-complicity?utm_medium=ios&s=r Sponsor 47:57 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Interview with Rachel Anderson Center for Public Justice: https://www.cpjustice.org Families Valued Policy Resources: https://www.familiesvalued.org/resources-policy 49:08 - Interview intro 53:28 - Paid family leave policies overview 1:01:51 - Theological framework for paid family leave 1:04:25 - Defining family and its purpose 1:07:43 - Difficulties in implementing paid family leave policy in US 1:11:12 - Citizenship as a collective activity 1:16:22 - Resources

In a lengthy article in The Atlantic, social psychologist Jonathan Haidt explains how social media has made our entire society more stupid in the last decade, and compares the disunity it’s causing to the Tower of Babel. Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss the article and what can be done to reverse the trends. Then, pastor Albert Tate talks about his new book, “How We Love Matters: A Call to Practice Relentless Racial Reconciliation.” By sharing personal stories, Tate says we must learn to live with being offended, commit to community, and love anyway. Plus, teenage gorillas are getting too much screen time. News Segment 0:00 - Intro and updates 3:03 - Fasting from whiteness https://religionnews.com/2022/04/08/chicago-area-pastor-says-his-church-is-fasting-from-whiteness-and-getting-pushback-during-lent/ 6:16 - Gorillas, teens, and screen time 13:35 - Stupid social media “Why the Past 10 Years of American Live Have Been Uniquely Stupid” by Jonathan Haidt - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/ Holy Post episode 495 with Robert Tracy McKenzie- https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-495-the-false-gospel-of-democracy-with-robert-tracy-mckenzie Unbelievable? The Conference - https://www.unbelievable.live Interview with Albert Tate Albert Tate - https://alberttate.com “How We Love Matters: A Call to Practice Relentless Racial Reconciliation” - https://amzn.to/36s6e86 47:51 - Interview intro 49:42 - Committing to community 53:48 - Loving while offended 1:00:07 - When to stay and when to leave 1:04:29 - Generational trauma/injustice and generational privilege 1:18:09 - Hope for the American church 1:24:48 - Credits The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Conservative political rallies and protests are increasingly using Christian worship music. How is this different than the role of faith in the Civil Rights movement, and why should Christians on all sides be cautious about attaching God’s name to their activism? Then, new data says Trump’s presidency dramatically altered attitudes about race and prejudice in America. And Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn respond to listener questions about last week’s episode on Disney and LGBTQ representation. Then, author and editor Drew Dyck is back for another round of media recommendations. This installment of “Dyck’s Picks” includes a book on deconstruction, some Easter-themed poetry, and a TV drama with something to say to the church about ethics and the culture war. Plus, beware of un-Lucky Charms. News Segment: 0:00 - Intro With God Daily: http://withgoddaily.com 5:22 - News of the Butt https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-investigates-lucky-charms-stomach-illness-reports-rcna23483 8:10 - Listener responses to last week’s episode https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-503-woke-disney-teens-in-crisis-racial-reconciliation-with-derwin-gray 20:25 - Political worship rallies https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/06/us/christian-right-wing-politics.html 37:43 - Trump’s racial topography Sponsor: 48:05 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Dyck’s Picks with Drew Dyck: 49:16 - Interview intro 51:31 - Pick 1: “Fractured Faith” by Lina AbuJamra https://amzn.to/3xndQDN 1:1:15 - Pick 2: Yellowstone (TV series) 1:13:20 - Pick 3: “Bower Lodge” by Paul J. Pastor https://amzn.to/3JNmyOB 1:19:23 - Final story: “With” by Skye Jethani https://amzn.to/3uAFdZB 1:24:14 - Credits The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

The feud between Florida’s governor and Disney is getting hotter with new leaked footage of a Disney executive speaking about the company’s goals for LGBTQ representation. What are both the Right and Left getting wrong in the debate, and why should we see sexual orientation and gender identity as different from race? Also, new studies show an alarming rise in mental health disorders among teens, but there’s some good news for those involved in religious communities. Plus, Derwin Gray is back to talk about his new book, “How to Heal our Racial Divide.” He shares how his church is taking the call for racial reconciliation “from the seats to the streets,” and why so many church leaders remain afraid to talk about race. News Segment 0:00 - Intro and updates 3:30 - Disney controversy update 26:43 - Teen mental health https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/03/31/student-mental-health-decline-cdc/ 31:34 - Religion, college, and mental health https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/15/opinion/religion-school-success.html https://neurosciencenews.com/religious-accountability-wellbeing-20126/ Interview with Derwin Gray “How to Heal Our Racial Divide” - https://amzn.to/3JaWnkn Derwin Gray - derwinlgray.com 45:44 - Intro 47:18 - Book overview 49:01 - Multiethnic churches and resistance from leaders 1:01:13 - Christian responsibility in fixing unjust systems 1:09:09 - Police 1:17:11 - Importance of mourning 1:26:24 - Credits Other resources mentioned: Holy Post episode 458: “The Gospel Demands Multiethnic Churches” - https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-458-the-gospel-demands-multiethnic-churches Derwin Gray’s IG live with former CMPD Chief, Kerr Putney: https://www.instagram.com/tv/CAxrK4hJzLj/ The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases

The conservative (and maybe Christian?) satire site Babylon Bee has had their Twitter account suspended for giving a trans woman their “Man of the Year” award. Babylon Bee says they’re being punished for speaking the truth, but are they just being mean? And an essay in the Washington Post by Christine Emba says our sexual ethic of consent alone isn’t working. Has she uncovered evidence that our secular culture is more receptive to Christian sexual ethics than we thought? Then Kaitlyn Schiess talks with author, poet, and English profess Daniel Bowman Jr. about his book, “On the Spectrum: Autism, Faith, & the Gifts of Neurodiversity.” Bowman, who is on the spectrum himself, dispels myths about autism and offers helpful ideas about how we can love those in our families and communities who are neurodiverse. Plus, an update from the Animal News desk. Holy Post Patreon (now with book club!) - https://www.patreon.com/holypost News Segment 0:00 - Intro 2:54 - Animal News https://relevantmagazine.com/culture/no-more-monkey-business-publix-will-stop-selling-coconut-milk-collected-from-enslaved-monkeys/ 10:41 - Babylon Bee 19:39 - Sexual ethics https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/17/sex-ethics-rethinking-consent-culture/ Sponsor 49:24 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Interview with Daniel Bowman Jr. https://www.danielbowmanjr.com “On the Spectrum: Autism, Faith, & the Gifts of Neurodiversity” - https://amzn.to/3qJnpZC 50:33 - Interview intro and book overview 54:38 - Loving neighbor 58:32 - Neurodiversity and Own Voices 1:02:56 - Culture making “Culture Making” by Andy Crouch - https://amzn.to/3JXvQII 1:07:33 - Autism and the church 1:14:55 - Bad Christian stories 1:19:10 - Loving people across space 1:22:29 - End The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Before recently winning the NCAA women’s 500-yard freestyle swimming championship, Lia Thomas competed in the sport as a man. Should that matter? David French talks with Skye Jethani about the complexities of transgender rights, and why we need a more nuanced understanding of what “equal protection” means in the law. Then, French says the real divisions in our culture and politics aren’t primarily between Republicans and Democrats, or between conservatives and progressives, but between a traditional understanding of liberalism and the dangers of illiberalism. 0:00 - Intro 0:48 - Trans athletes “What Do We Do When People Are Equal, But Not Alike?” (David French article) - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/what-do-we-do-when-people-are-equal?s=r 34:28 - Liberalism and illiberalism 1:02:45 - EndHoly Post Patreon (now with book club!) - patreon.com/holypost