The Holy Post

Although the Religious Right is on a winning streak at the Supreme Court, data shows it’s losing in the court of public opinion. Gallop reports more Americans than ever no longer believe in God, and only a minority of Americans share the political and cultural beliefs of conservative evangelicals. The Holy Post crew responds to a Jesuit priest’s article wondering if overturning Roe was worth the costs, and congresswoman Lauren Boebert says the church should be running the government. But which church does she have in mind? Then Skye talks to mother and daughter, Nancy Beach and Samantha Beach Kiley, about their book “Next Sunday: An Honest Dialogue About the Future of the Church.” Nancy pioneered the seeker-driven megachurch movement at Willow Creek, but also experienced its toxicity and collapse. Her daughter, Samantha, is now a pastor seeking to apply the lessons—both positive and negative—from her megachurch upbringing to a new generation. Plus, the New York Supreme Court makes a jumbo ruling. Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks... Angry mobs and the end times - https://www.patreon.com/posts/68708383/ News Segment 0:00 - Intro 2:21 - Christian’s travelogue and other updates 5:45 - Happy the Elephant 14:03 - More SCOTUS rulings 23:27 - Christian Right losing in public opinion 30:38 - Costs of overturning Roe 46:07 - Americans’ belief in God is dropping Sponsor 52:19 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Interview with Nancy Beach and Samantha Beach Kiley “Next Sunday: An Honest Dialogue About the Future of the Church” - https://amzn.to/3nHnA68 Nancy Beach - http://www.nancylbeach.com/ Samantha Beach Kiley - www.samanthabeach.work 56:04 - Relevance and trust 1:03:24 - Beyond content delivery 1:08:02 - Experiencing other traditions 1:10:59 - Blind spots and overcorrecting 1:18:00 - Church leadership culture 1:27:42 - Credits Articles referenced in news segment: “Happy the elephant is not a person, New York’s highest court rules” - https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/happy-the-elephant-is-not-a-person-new-yorks-highest-court-rules “The Christian Right is winning in court while losing in public opinion” (NPR) - https://www.npr.org/2022/07/01/1109141110/the-christian-right-is-winning-cultural-battles-while-public-opinion-disagrees “What has the demise of Roe v. Wade cost the Catholic Church?” by Thomas Reese (Religion News Service) - https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/what-has-demise-roe-v-wade-cost-catholic-church “Poll: Americans’ belief in God is dropping” - https://religionnews.com/2022/06/21/poll-americans-belief-in-god-is-dropping/ Resource mentioned in interview: “The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters” by Priya Parker - https://amzn.to/3akrxui The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Phil and Kaitlyn are finally back from (separate) trips to Europe, but they’re returning to a very different America. The Supreme Court has officially overturned Roe and ended the Constitutional right to abortion. What’s good about the decision? What’s concerning? And why is it increasingly unacceptable to have a nuanced understanding of this issue? Then, a new article by Ronald Brownstein says America’s relative unity in the 20th century was an anomaly, and the country may be heading toward a permanent split. Can the union be saved? Skye then talked to Amy Sherman, the author of our Holy Post Book Club selection, “Agents of Flourishing: Pursuing Shalom in Every Corner of Society.” Sherman says we need a larger, more biblical vision of God’s redemption, and we must recapture what it means for Christ’s people to be a “royal priesthood” in parts of the culture often overlooked by the church. Plus, Phil’s European report includes wild horses, naked Dutch men, and a frustrating lack of Diet Coke.   Patreon Bonus: Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess, Faith & Capitalism 101 - https://www.patreon.com/posts/68383122 News Segment 0:00 - Intro 1:28 - Kaitlyn’s travelogue 6:54 - Phil’s travelogue 20:03 - America after Roe 44:28 - America growing apart Interview with Amy Sherman Amy Sherman - https://sagamoreinstitute.org/bio-amy-sherman/ “Agents of Flourishing” - https://amzn.to/3HZZdtp 57:07 - Amy Sherman intro 59:02 - Jeremiah 29:7 1:05:27 - Royal priesthood 1:10:08 - Community endowments 1:13:24 - Understanding flourishing 1:24:09 - Ethics and Christian influence Other resources referenced in episode: “Roe Is Reversed, and the Right Isn’t Ready” by David French (The Dispatch) - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/roe-is-reversed-and-the-right-isnt “America is Growing Apart, Possibly for Good” by Ronal Brownstein (The Atlantic) - https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/06/red-and-blue-state-divide-is-growing-michael-podhorzer-newsletter/661377/ “No Future Without Forgiveness” by Desmond Tutu - https://amzn.to/3nof6R3 The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the state of Maine cannot exclude private schools from its voucher program simply because they are religious. David French explains the ruling and how it fits into decades of pro-religious liberty wins. Skye Jethani asks how the courts define “religion” and why secular philosophy has an unfair advantage in public schools. Then, the January 6th hearings are revealing how people within Trump’s party and administration thwarted his attempts to reverse the outcome of the election. They’ve testified about his lies and his illegal actions. So why do so many of them say they’ll still vote for him in 2024? French and Jethani discuss how the GOP can move on from Donald Trump, why that’s unlikely, and the challenges facing both parties in the next election. 0:00 - Intro 00:38 - Carson v. Makin and school choice 32:23 - Jan. 6th hearings and future of the GOP 1:06:38 - Credits “Mike Pence and the Christian Conflict on January 6” by David French (The Dispatch) - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/the-profound-christian-conflict-on David French: https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench

A recent article in the Atlantic reveals how the political polarization in the United States is now tearing evangelical churches apart. And Marvin Olasky, the former editor of World Magazine, writes about the dramatic change he witnessed among evangelicals over his long career. Drawing from thousands of letters he received, Olasky concludes, “The Republican party platform has become more important than the gospel for many who identify as evangelicals.” Special guest co-host Drew Dyck joins Phil and Skye to discuss the articles. Then, president of Barna research, David Kinnaman, is back with more stats to unpack. With a record number of pastors thinking seriously about quitting, and political polarization listed among the top reasons, Kinnaman says the church is facing a crisis of discipleship. He believes we need a political theology that’s rooted in the gospel rather than partisanship. But is it too late? Also this week, fear over climate change is making progressives question the morality of having kids. And, South Korean college students are flush with cash. News Segment 0:00 - Intro 4:24 - News of the Butt 9:54 - Climate change and having kids 20:15 - How politics poisoned the evangelical church 30:47 - Evangelical Christianity in the age of Trump Sponsors 57:08 - World Relief worldrelief.org/holypost 59:04 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Barna Brief with David Kinnaman 1:00:14 - Barna Brief intro 1:01:32 - Data on pastors considering quitting 1:04:23 - Reason 1: Stress of job 1:06:20 - Reason 2: Loneliness 1:09:54 - Reason 3: Political division 1:21:05 - Good news in this data? 1:29:42 - Credits Barna Brief links: Barna Group, Faith Leadership in a Divided Culture https://shop.barna.com/products/faith-leadership-in-a-divided-culture Resilient Pastor Cohort (discount code is HOLYPOST15): barna.com/cohort “The Resilient Pastor” by Glenn Packiam - https://amzn.to/3HK2f4R News segment links: “South Korean Toilet Allows Students to Pay With Their Poop” - https://interestingengineering.com/south-korean-toilet-allows-students-to-pay-with-their-poop “Your Kids are Not Doomed” by Ezra Klein (NYT Opinion) -https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/05/opinion/climate-change-should-you-have-kids.html Andrew Walker tweet - https://twitter.com/andrewtwalk/status/1534136018269614081?s=20&t=Hvg_G52SvOYW0k8HIoNQRQ “How Politics Poisoned the Evangelical Church” by Tim Alberta (The Atlantic) - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/06/evangelical-church-pastors-political-radicalization/629631/ “The Sixty Years’ War: Evangelical Christianity in the Age of Trump” by Marvin Olasky (National Review) - https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2022/06/27/the-sixty-years-war-evangelical-christianity-in-the-age-of-trump/ The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Responses to the mass shootings in Buffalo, New York, and Uvalde, Texas, have continued, and there’s renewed hope for policy changes. This week, Jo Saxton joins Phil and Skye as a guest co-host to discuss a series of articles from African-American and global Christian leaders about the need to rethink both America’s gun policies and the American church’s gun culture. Then, BibleProject co-founders, Jon Collins and Tim Mackie, talk with Skye about how their work has shifted from just teaching what’s in the Bible to teaching people how to read the Bible. Their new app and podcast series is designed to help us see the Bible as brilliant literature, and not just a depository of quick answers to life’s problems. Also this week, should we be concerned that more people are having wedding ceremonies to marry themselves? Holy Post merchandise - https://www.holypost.com/shop Getting Schooled by Kaitlyn Schiess: Political Theology 101 - https://www.patreon.com/posts/67787080/ BibleProject Patreon Bonus - https://www.patreon.com/posts/67787175/ News Segment 0:00 - Intro 4:10 - Sologamy?? 13:49 - Guns in the home 20:39 - Guns and cars 26:00 - Global perspective on America’s gun culture 36:12 - Gun violence and the theology of evil 44:52 - Guns and church 54:44 - Holy Post Announcements Interview with Jon Collins and Tim MackieBibleProject: bibleproject.com BibleProject App: https://bibleproject.com/app/ BibleProject Podcast: https://bibleproject.com/podcasts/the-bible-project-podcast/ 57:09 - Jon Collins and Tim Mackie interview intro 1:00:26 - BibleProject shift toward how to read the Bible 1:06:39 - Bible literacy in America 1:19:38 - Literary beauty in the Bible Articles mentioned in news segment: “Sologamy: India woman’s plan to ‘marry herself’ sparks debate” - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-61671032 “Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home”https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/ “What would it mean to treat guns the way we treat cars?” (Vox) - https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23151852/gun-violence-cars-crashes-firearms-deaths-youth “This Love of Guns: It’s Way Beyond Our Understanding” by Matthew Soerens (Christianity Today) - https://www.christianitytoday.com/better-samaritan/2022/june/this-love-of-guns-its-way-beyond-our-understanding.html “What Supporters of Gun Rights Mean When They Talk About ‘Evil’” by Esau McCalley (NYT Opinion) - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/10/opinion/mass-shooting-evil.html “White Churches, It’s Time to Go Pro-Life on Guns” by Charlie Dates (Christianity Today) - https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/june-web-only/uvalde-school-shooting-chicago-go-pro-life-gun-violence.html

Christians who oppose more restrictive gun control policies say we have a God-given constitutional right to self-defense. But is there any evidence to back this claim? With Christian and Kaitlyn both in Europe, Phil and Skye invite Mike Erre from the Voxology podcast to fill the empty co-host chair. Mike looks at the biblical texts cited by gun advocates and says that even if self-defense can be justified, for the Christian it is not a “right.”   Then, Skye talks to Lina AbuJamra about her book, “Fractured Faith: Finding Your Way Back to Faith in an Age of Deconstruction.” Like so many, AbuJamra entered a season of significant doubt not because of anti-Christian messages from the culture, but after experiencing a toxic leadership culture at her church. She shares what restored her faith, the danger of false expectations, and why honesty about our disillusionment is the first step. Also this week—California declares that bees are fish, and scientists accidentally create murder hamsters. What could possibly go wrong?   Holy Post 10th Anniversary Merch: https://www.holypost.com/shop   News Segment: 0:00 - Intro 4:18 - Bees are fish https://gizmodo.com/bees-fish-california-conservation-endangered-specie-1849009597 9:11 - Murder hamsters https://boingboing.net/2022/05/29/scientists-accidentally-made-a-vicious-mutant-attack-hamster.html 14:55 - Re: French Friday episode on gun control French Friday: Debating Gun Control - https://www.holypost.com/post/french-friday-debating-gun-control 19:39 - Constitutional right to self-defense? The Federalist Papers: No 46 - https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed46.asp 27:05 - Biblical right to self-defense? 46:53 - Thoughts and prayers Sponsor 51:28 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Interview with Lina AbuJamra: “Fractured Faith: Finding Your Way Back to God in an Age of Deconstruction” - https://amzn.to/3xqCiEa Living with Power - https://www.livingwithpower.org   52:38 - Lina AbuJamra intro 54:44 - Journey that led to deconstruction 1:02:20 - False expectations 1:08:10 - American evangelical leadership crisis 1:15:23 - Honesty in disillusionment 1:24:56 - Credits Other resources mentioned: Voxology podcast - https://voxologypodcast.com   The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

*Please be aware that this episode deals with sensitive topics, including suicide and child/adolescent mortality.* In the wake of the elementary school massacre in Uvalde, Texas, David French and Skye Jethani spend the whole episode debating what can be done to curb gun deaths in America. While they find some agreement around “Red Flag” laws and making gun owners liable for the misuse of their weapons, French doesn’t support an assault weapons ban or requiring training and evaluation before purchasing a gun. With guns now the leading cause of death for kids and teens in America, Skye says it’s time for Christians to explore all possible solutions, including amending the Constitution, similar to the pro-life movement’s approach to ending abortion. David French says the 2nd Amendment must be protected as a basic human right. Both agree, however, that the status quo is not acceptable. Holy Post episode 423: “Is America’s Gun Culture a Blessing or Curse? with David French” - https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-423-is-america-s-gun-culture-a-blessing-or-curse-with-david-french “Pass and Enforce Red Flag Laws. Now.”- https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/pass-and-enforce-red-flag-laws-now?s=r“ Guns are now the leading cause of death for American children” - https://news.yahoo.com/guns-now-leading-cause-death-190042943.html Advisory Opinions episode: “Mass Shootings and the Law” - https://advisoryopinions.thedispatch.com/p/mass-shootings-and-the-law?s=r#details

The United States has experienced another horrific school shooting, and the country is once again debating guns. Will this time be any different? Phil asks why the U.S. is incapable of passing sensible gun regulations like Australia did 25 years ago, and why do so many evangelicals support America’s gun culture and the 2nd Amendment with religious-like devotion? Skye then interviews Andy Crouch about his new book about the dehumanizing effects of technology. Crouch says we are drawn to tech the same way the ancients were tempted by magic. Both offer the promise of “effortless power,” but it always comes with a cost. And he says we should look to early Christianity for ways to restore dignity and personhood to our culture. Plus, critical listener responses to our recent Roe v Wade episode. News Segment 0:00 - Intro 2:22 - Critical listener responses Holy Post episode 508: No More Roe? & the New Scandal of the Evangelical Mind - https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-508-no-more-roe-the-new-scandal-of-the-evangelical-mind-with-mark-noll 20:58 - Baby formula 22:26 - America’s guns Kaitlyn’s tweet: https://twitter.com/KaitlynSchiess/status/1529517008206942209“ Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted” - https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback Holy Post episode 423: Is America’s Gun Culture a Blessing or Curse? - https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-423-is-america-s-gun-culture-a-blessing-or-curse-with-david-french Interview with Andy Crouch“The Life We’re Looking For: Reclaiming Relationship in a Technological World” - https://amzn.to/3M6EbtH 51:11 - Andy Crouch intro 53:47 - Technology and magic 59:29 - Media and superpowers 1:14:39 - Early Christianity and personhood 1:26:10 - Interview wrap-up 1:28:42 - Credits The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

0:00 - Intro 1:57 - Something Old - Josh’s: About a Boy 5:57 - Something Old - Skye’s: Patton 9:09 - Something New: Operation Mincemeat 10:32 - Josh’s Proposal “I propose Operation Mincemeat is a good example of using fiction to tell a true story.” 16:11 - Skye’s Proposal “This is another one of those movies that proves truth is stranger than fiction and sometimes even more compelling.” 23:04 - Something Borrowed - The True Story Behind Netflix’s Operation Mincemeat & Movies from the Mountaintop 32:12 - Something Blew - Jason’s: The Prestige TV Podcast (Barry Recaps) 34:50 - Something Blew - Josh’s: Home Before Dark 39:48 - Something Blew - Skye’s: The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel & George Carlin’s American Dream 45:59 - Outro Follow The Movie Proposal crew on Twitter: Skye, Josh & Jason Find The Movie Proposal on Facebook

The independent report about the cover-up of sexual abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention has been released, and it’s far worse than anyone expected. What does it mean for the SBC and American evangelicalism in general? And Phil asks if there’s a difference between engaging in godly cultural transformation and fighting a culture war. Was William Wilberforce a culture warrior? And when are we really seeking change, and when are we just virtue signaling? Then, Kaitlyn welcomes Washington Post opinion columnist and editor, Christine Emba, to discuss her new book “Rethinking Sex: A Provocation.” After interviewing dozens of young adults, Emba concludes that evangelical purity culture has problems, but so does the secular message of sex positivity. Instead, she draws from Christian theology and tradition to propose an ethical framework that goes beyond consent alone. Plus, Phil refuses to be concerned about an invasion of aggressive jumping worms. News Segment: 0:00 - Intro 3:07 - Jumping worms https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/jumping-worms-have-made-their-way-to-california-17182377.php 9:36 - SBC Report 32:06 - Culture wars or transformation?Sponsor: 48:32 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Interview with Christine Emba “Rethinking Sex: A Provocation” - https://amzn.to/38gtHdj “Consent is not enough. We need a new sexual ethic.”- https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/17/sex-ethics-rethinking-consent-culture/ 49:41 - Christine Emba intro 52:00 - Book background 54:28 - Misdiagnosing the problem 58:30 - Purity culture versus uncritical sex positivity 1:04:14 - Interviews within book 1:13:35 - Dating app culture 1:24:28 - Willing the good of the other 1:29:12 - Credits Resources mentioned in news segment: “Southern Baptist leaders covered up sex abuse, kept secret database, report says” by Sarah Pulliam Bailey (The Washington Post) - https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/05/22/southern-baptist-sex-abuse-report/ “Southern Baptists Refused to Act on Abuse, Despite Secret List of Pastors” by Kate Shellnutt (Christianity Today) - https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2022/may/southern-baptist-abuse-investigation-sbc-ec-legal-survivors.html “This Is the Southern Baptist Apocalypse” by Russell Moore (Christianity Today) - https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/may-web-only/southern-baptist-abuse-apocalypse-russell-moore.html “The Gift of Pain” by Paul Brand and Philip Yancey - https://amzn.to/3wGWjGa The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.