The Holy Post

Florida is the latest front in the culture war with a controversial bill to prevent teachers from speaking to children about the existence of same-sex couples or transgender people. But is the bill so vague that it could also prevent schools from acknowledging opposite-sex married couples too? The crew breaks down the intent, and the possible side effects, of Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” law. And, what does Disney’s response to the controversy tell us about where the wider culture is heading? Then, pastor and president of the National Latino Evangelical Coalition (NALEC), Rev. Dr. Gabriel Salguero, joins Skye for a conversation about the growing influence of Latinos within evangelicalism. He says the diverse perspectives of Latino Christians offers the white church a “view from below,” and promises to bring renewal to the American church, but we shouldn’t romanticize the movement either. Plus, an example of Christian Nationalism in the wild, and goats go to church. News Segment 0:00 - Intro 5:21 - Animal News https://www.al.com/news/2022/03/baaaaaaad-goats-break-into-alabama-church-shatter-glass-door.html 7:52 - An example of Christian nationalism https://www.christianpost.com/voices/is-this-our-last-chance.html 19:49 - Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” bill 30:13 - Disney’s response Sponsor 41:03 - Abide abide.co/holypost Interview with Gabriel Salguero National Latino Evangelical Coalition: https://nalec.org Gabriel Salguero: https://twitter.com/PastorsSalguero 42:14 - Interview start 45:36 - Latino evangelical experience in America 50:32 - Shared challenges 53:47 - Future of the church and evangelicalism 1:03:51 - Navigating recent tumultuous times 1:17:27 - Hope for the future Other resources mentioned: “The Dissenters Trying to Save Evangelicalism From Itself” (David Brooks article) - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/opinion/evangelicalism-division-renewal.html

The gang’s all here! Phil, Skye, Christian, & Kaitlyn are all in the studio for the first time ever to record this very special episode of the Holy Post. They retell the show’s origin story dating all the way to Phil’s talkshow dreams in the 1980s, how that accidentally gave rise to VeggieTales, why Skye got roped into the scheme, how Christian went from TV producer to podcast co-host, and how Kaitlyn is leveraging her new Holy Post notoriety. The crew then countdown the Top 10 stories of the last 10 years, and speculate about what the future holds for faith in America. Featuring original songs by Phil, voice messages from the audience, and a mythological Inuit knife, this is an episode for the ages! Holy Post Quiz Show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgIOoK0BpkY Holy Post Patreon (now with book club!): patreon.com/holypost Episode 500 merch: holypost.com/shop Special thanks to: Waylon Klix, creator of brick characters included on episode 500 art card and in the video; Ellie Kleinsasser, creator of episode 500 merch design; and all our Patreon supporters who submitted voice messages! (For time’s sake, we couldn’t include all the voice messages we received, but we loved listening to every one that came in.) 0:00 - Intro song 00:42 - Voice messages: Shelby, Jared, Edgar 02:31 - Holy Post origin story 23:33 - News of the Butt https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X19305371 28:26 - Voice messages: JT, Jere 29:50 - Sponsor - Abide http://abide.co/holypost 31:01 - Announcements 32:47 - Voice messages: Quinn, David 34:23 - 10 stories from 10 years, part 1 “Facts Are Our Friends: Why Sharing Fake News Makes Us Look Stupid and Harms Our Witness” (Ed Stetzer) - https://churchleaders.com/outreach-missions/outreach-missions-articles/299041-facts-friends-sharing-fake-news-makes-us-look-stupid-harms-witness.html 52:20 - Voice messages: Michael, Catherine, Sarah, Ethan 55:21 - Sponsor - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost 56:31 - 10 stories from 10 years, part 2 “Justice” video (Bible Project) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A14THPoc4- “Struggling with Evangelicalism” book (Dan Stringer) - https://amzn.to/3MTixL5 1:15:20 - “Crazy” song 1:17:20 - Looking ahead 1:27:59 - Voice messages: Raphael, Rick, Laura, Denise 1:31:01 - End The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Some Southern Baptists say if Voddie Baucham becomes the next president of the SBC it will be a step toward racial reconciliation. When Phil disagreed in a tweet last weekend, it triggered a social media tsunami. He responds to the controversy. Then, the Holy Post crew discusses Jemar Tisby’s recent article about how the murder of Trayvon Martin ten years ago ended white evangelicalism’s efforts at racial reconciliation. But was the movement flawed from its beginning in the 1990s? Then, Skye has a wide-ranging conversation with author and conservative New York Times columnist David Brooks. They cover recent efforts to rescue evangelicalism from politics, the loss of optimism in the 21st century, our naïveté about democracy, how the world is reacting to the war in Ukraine, and why the church needs to make spiritual formation more challenging not less.   News Segment 0:00 - Intro 01:59 - Pat Robertson 4:48 - Phil’s Twitter tsunami 11:21 - The end of racial reconciliation?   “Trayvon Martin’s Murder and the Death of the Evangelical Racial Reconciliation Movement” - https://jemartisby.substack.com/p/trayvon-martins-murder-and-the-death?utm_source=url&s=r   Sponsor 51:10 - Abide abide.co/holypost   Interview with David Brooks 52:22 - Interview intro 54:06 - “Dissenters” article 58:39 - Social trust and technology 1:03:16 - “The Dark Century” article 1:05:22 - Lost view of humanity 1:13:09 - Reactions to the war in Ukraine 1:18:43 - Institutions and spiritual formation 1:26:02 - End   “The Dissenters Trying to Save Evangelicalism From Itself” - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/opinion/evangelicalism-division-renewal.html   “The Dark Century” - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/17/opinion/liberalism-democracy-russia-ukraine.html   Bonus Patreon segment: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63559614/     David Brooks books mentioned: “The Social Animal” - https://amzn.to/3vYb8E2   “Bobos in Paradise” - https://amzn.to/3pO5AIB   “The Road to Character” - https://amzn.to/378B7yh   The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and the heroic resistance the Russian troops have encountered raises new questions about patriotism. When is love for our country godly, and when does it unknowingly lead to evil? Plus, a new study tries to define Christian nationalism, explain why Black and White Christian nationalists are so different, and advise how to prevent the heresy from spreading in churches. Then, David Kinnaman, President of the Barna Group, is back for another “Barna Brief.” His latest research finds over 70 percent of pastors are very concerned about the spread of Christian nationalism, but most aren’t sure what to do about it. And - why measuring church attendance says almost nothing about a church’s spiritual health or effectiveness at making disciples. News Segment: 0:00 - Intro 4:20 - Ukraine and patriotism February French Friday episode - https://www.holypost.com/post/french-friday-putin-pentecostals-christian-nationalism Interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie- https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-495-the-false-gospel-of-democracy-with-robert-tracy-mckenzie 23:50 - Christian nationalism and race “Christian Nationalism and the January 6, 2021 Insurrection” report - https://bjconline.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Christian_Nationalism_and_the_Jan6_Insurrection-2-9-22.pdf “Theology Cannot Save Us” article - https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/february-web-only/christian-theology-evangelicalism-cannot-save-us.html “Trayvon Martin’s Murder and the Death of the Evangelical Racial Reconciliation Movement” article - https://jemartisby.substack.com/p/trayvon-martins-murder-and-the-death?utm_source=url&s=r Sponsor 47:51 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Barna Brief with David Kinnaman: 49:44 - Interview start 51:40 - Reception to data on pastors 53:59 - Measuring effectiveness of discipleship 1:14:03 - Pastors’ concerns about Christian nationalism 1:23:40 - End To learn more about Barna’s initiatives for supporting pastors, go to Barna.com/ResilientPastor

During the Cold War, conservatives prided themselves for their opposition to the Soviet Union and totalitarianism and blasted those who wavered as “un-American.” In the current crisis in Ukraine, however, we have seen some conservatives defending Putin and Russia. What happened? David French tries to explain why some Republicans and evangelicals foolishly see Putin as a hero and defender of Christendom. Then he discusses his recent article about the rise of Christian Nationalism. Why is it so appealing among independent, Pentecostal churches, how is it spreading beyond those circles, and why are educated, elite Christian leaders reluctant to speak up about it? 0:00 - Intro  3:01 - Crisis in Ukraine“Burning Straw Men by the Bushel”- https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/burning-straw-men-by-the-bushel?utm_source=url Putin’s February 21 address - http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67828“ We’re All Ukrainians Now” - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/were-all-ukrainians-now?utm_source=url 31:13 - Rise of Christian nationalism“The Seeds of Political Violence Are Being Sown in Church” - https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/the-seeds-of-political-violence-are?utm_source=url

Why do black seminarians graduate with a lot more student debt than whites, and what does it mean for churches? A recent Gospel Coalition article by Alisa Childers argues that the word “deconstruction” is universally bad and should not be redeemed. Is she right or is it another example of Christians overreacting to a complicated issue? Then Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn take Childers’ online quiz to determine whether they are progressive Christians. Anglican priest and author Tish Harrison Warren talks to Skye about her controversial New York Times column saying it’s time to end online streaming worship services, and she argues that the pro-choice movement is hypocritical for not making the choice to keep a child easier. Plus, Phil shares his hard won wisdom about what not to post on Twitter. News Segment 0:00 Intro 3:56 - Trucker protests in Canada 6:55 - COVID death rate graph https://twitter.com/philvischer/status/1495044505363492866 14:42 - Black seminarians graduating with more debt https://religionnews.com/2022/02/17/black-seminary-grads-with-debt-higher-than-others-cope-with-money-and-ministry/ Glenn Packiam interview: https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-496-the-embrace-of-tyrants-the-despair-of-pastors 26:43 - Deconstruction https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/redeem-reconstruction/ Interview with Tish Harrison Warren “The Systemic Realities Created by Legal Abortion” article - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/22/opinion/roe-legal-abortion.html “Why Churches Should Drop Their Online Services” article - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/30/opinion/church-online-services-covid.html 49:41 - Guest intro 51:40 - Abortion and a broken system 55:50 - Feminism and abortion 1:00:23 - Online worship services 1:01:42 - Importance of embodied worship 1:06:04 - Technology in community 1:18:25 - Pushback from people unable to attend services 1:29:37 - End Other Links/Resources: https://tishharrisonwarren.com/ “Liturgy of the Ordinary: Sacred Practices in Everyday Life” book - https://amzn.to/3IbFy9l Patreon Bonus Segments: Full abortion conversation with Tish Harrison Warren - https://www.patreon.com/posts/62922779/ Bonus news story - https://www.patreon.com/posts/62922997/ The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

A scary number of Americans now say violence may be necessary to fix the country. A new report looks at what combination of beliefs cause a person to endorse political violence, and why it’s more common on the right. Then, in response to last week’s interview, Phil unpacks how our modern belief in human goodness explains the rise in authoritarianism and populism. And, why are U.S. Christians supporting the “Freedom Convoy” in Canada? A recent study from Barna found more than one-third of pastors have seriously considered leaving ministry in the last year. What’s behind this crisis? Is the problem our culture, church members, how we’ve structured ministry, or is it pastors themselves? Skye talks to Glenn Packiam about his new book, “The Resilient Pastor,” and why it’s time to reexamine our assumptions about the church and its leadership. Plus, scientists create an artificial fish powered by love. News Segment 0:00 - Intro/updates from the crew 4:44 - Valentine’s Day 6:39 - Animal News https://newatlas.com/robotics/biohybrid-fish-human-heart-cells/ 13:08 - Recap: Last week’s interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie https://www.holypost.com/post/episode-495-the-false-gospel-of-democracy-with-robert-tracy-mckenzie 18:08 - Study: Moral divisions and authoritarian leaders https://www.psypost.org/2022/02/study-provides-first-evidence-of-a-causal-link-between-perceived-moral-division-and-support-for-authoritarian-leaders-62479 36:36 - Beliefs leading to endorsement of political violence https://www.psypost.org/2022/02/victimhood-racial-identity-and-conspiracism-interact-with-christian-nationalism-to-lead-to-support-for-violence-62589 David French piece: https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/the-seeds-of-political-violence-are 50:53 - News segment wrap-up Sponsor 53:04 - Faithful Counseling faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Interview with Glenn Packiam“The Resilient Pastor” - https://amzn.to/34WGgbK https://www.barna.com/resilient-pastor/ 54:17 - Interview intro 56:19 - “Pastor” definition and recent Barna stats 1:00:07 - Glenn Packiam’s story/pilgrimage 1:04:02 - Tension in how pastors spend their time 1:13:44 - Authority 1:21:10 - Slowing down 1:28:10 - What’s next? The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Should churches stop live-streaming their services and return to in-person worship? A recent editorial by Tish Harrison Warren has gotten a lot of negative reactions from chronically ill and disabled people who value online worship. What does the debate say about our theology of the church? ABC has suspended Whoopi Goldberg for her comments about race and the Holocaust. Is Judaism a race, a religion, an ethnicity, or something else?   Some Christians are praising Stephen Colbert for talking about how his faith informs his comedy on his talk show, while others are criticizing him for not explicitly sharing the gospel. Who’s right? And David Brooks’ recent NY Times article about the evangelical leaders trying to save their movement makes the Holy Post crew ask—When do we try to fix a ministry and when do we leave it? Then, Skye talks to history professor Robert Tracy McKenzie about his new book “We the Fallen People” about what the Founders really believed about democracy and the virtue of the American people. He explains how Americans lost the Founders’ belief in human depravity and exchanged it for a false gospel that affirms the inherent goodness of people and democracy, and how that explains the challenges we are now experiencing in our politics. News Segment:   0:00 - Intro 4:29 - Should churches stop live-streaming services? Tish Harrison Warren article: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/30/opinion/church-online-services-covid.html Skye’s video, “Why You’re Sick of Church” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TqmTugUfT0 16:52 - Whoopi Goldberg’s comments on race and the Holocaust 26:01 - Stephen Colbert on faith and comedy 36:47 - Institutions - when to fix and when to leave David Brooks article: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/opinion/evangelicalism-division-renewal.html   Interview with Robert Tracy McKenzie: “We the Fallen People: The Founders and the Future of American Democracy” - https://amzn.to/3gvwP5J Patreon Bonus Interview - https://www.patreon.com/posts/62311740/ 56:04 - Interview Start 57:57 - “Democratic gospel” definition 1:02:02 - Founders’ beliefs about democracy and human nature 1:12:46 - “The Great Reversal” 1:20:21 - Jackson and unchecked democracy 1:23:22 - Christianity and partisanship 1:26:03 - Imperial presidency concerns 1:30:08 - End   The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Jerry Falwell Jr. is doing damage control following his profile in Vanity Fair (discussed at length in last month’s French Friday episode). He’s even posted a statement of faith affirming his Christian beliefs. But does that make his behavior better or worse? And how does populism explain his criticism of “religious elites” while enjoying all the benefits of being a religious elite? Is Falwell the victim of nepotism, and should ministry be a family business? Then, a researcher argues that a toxic reaction to the Religious Right can explain a bunch of cultural, political, and religious trends—including the rise of the “nones” and unchecked conspiracy theories. And data suggests Democrats project their moral belief onto their candidates, while Republicans adopt the moral beliefs of their candidates. Then, Skye talks to Dan Kimball about his book and video series, How Not to Read the Bible, about why it’s critical for churches to welcome questions and doubts, and how the biblical ignorance of leaders is driving young people to find answers outside the church. News Segment 0:00 - Intro and updates from the crew 8:22 - Falwell fallout https://twitter.com/JerryFalwellJr/status/1486903286556938241?s=20&t=XaamDWl84N8x0qY4wbtRtwhttps://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/01/inside-jerry-falwell-jr-unlikely-rise-and-precipitous-fall January French Friday episode: https://www.holypost.com/post/french-friday-falwell-the-fruit-of-evangelical-leadership 25:39 - Article: “The backlash against rightwing evangelicals is reshaping American politics and faith” https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/25/the-backlash-against-rightwing-evangelicals-is-reshaping-american-politics-and-faith 44:10 - Study on political candidates and moral beliefs https://www.psypost.org/2022/01/new-study-indicates-republicans-revised-their-moral-beliefs-to-be-more-in-alignment-with-donald-trump-62439 Sponsor 51:40 - Faithful Counseling: faithfulcounseling.com/holypost Interview with Dan Kimball 52:53 - Interview start and intro 55:41 - Personal stories that led to the book/series 1:02:04 - Church as a factor 1:05:02 - Broader culture as a factor 1:15:24 - Personal conversion story 1:21:16 - Exclusivity issue 1:31:19 - End Resources mentioned: hownottoreadthebible.com “How (Not) to Read the Bible: Making Sense of the Anti-women, Anti-science, Pro-violence, Pro-slavery and Other Crazy-Sounding Parts of Scripture” - https://amzn.to/3HmHviQ “How (Not) to Read the Bible” Study Guide plus Streaming Video - https://amzn.to/3ujSIwT The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

He was the president of the largest Christian university and an influential political voice for millions of evangelicals. In a lengthy new Vanity Fair profile, however, Jerry Falwell Jr. now says he has contempt for “organized religion” and “religious elites.” David French and Skye Jethani discuss the shocking claims Falwell makes about Liberty University, how he lived a double life, and what his downfall says about American evangelicalism. Do Falwell and other disgraced leaders represent a bug or a feature of evangelicalism, and are ministries protecting bad or abusive leaders because they’re focused on the wrong fruit? Then, what’s the Electoral Count Act of 1887, and why is reforming it essential to protect American democracy?   0:00 - Start 0:21 - STORY 1: Vanity Fair profile of Jerry Falwell Jr. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/01/inside-jerry-falwell-jr-unlikely-rise-and-precipitous-fall 4:17 - Falwell in context 8:16 - Victim or villain? 13:16 - Broader institutional implications 21:05 - Bug or feature? 27:14 - Measuring the wrong fruit 47:19 - An antidote: Being known 53:22 - STORY 2: Electoral Count Act reform https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/stop-screwing-around-and-reform-the 1:06:33 - End