The Just Security Podcast

In the two years since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine began, the fighting has caused widespread horror and devastation. Over 10,000 civilians have been killed and more than half a million people injured. Still millions of others are internally displaced, seeking refuge abroad, or are in dire need of humanitarian assistance. The idea of war – and how to prevent it – was a central concern when 51 nations came together to form the United Nations over seven decades ago. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine poses deep challenges to the international rules-based order and raises complex questions of international law, not only for Ukraine, but for nations around the world.In partnership with the Ukrainian Association of International Law, which worked with other stakeholders such as the Ukrainian Bar Association, the American Society of International Law helped to convene a gathering of international lawyers in Lviv, Ukraine in December 2023. Lviv was home to three giants in the field of international law: Hersch Lauterpacht, Rafael Lemkin, and Louis Sohn. Lauterpacht developed the concept of crimes against humanity, Lemkin pioneered the term “genocide,” and pushed for the adoption of the U.N. Genocide Convention, and Sohn played a pivotal role in helping to conceptualize article 51 of the U.N. Charter on the right of self-defense. Many of those who gathered in Lviv are now sharing their reflections on the meeting in a Just Security symposium. Joining the show to discuss the symposium are four of its editors, Kateryna Busol, Olga Butkevych, Rebecca Hamilton, and Gregory Shaffer.  Kateryna is a Ukrainian lawyer and an Associate Professor at the National University of Kyiv-Mohyla Academy. Olga is President of the Ukrainian Association of International Law and Chaired Professor of Law at Kyiv’s National University of Taras Shevchenko. Rebecca is an Executive Editor at Just Security and a Professor of Law at American University, Washington College of Law. Greg is the Scott K Ginsburg Professor of International Law at Georgetown University Law Center and the President of the American Society of International Law. Show Notes:  Kateryna Busol (@KaterynaBusol)Olga ButkevychRebecca Hamilton (@bechamilton)Gregory Shaffer (@gregorycshaffer) Paras Shah (@pshah518) Just Security’s symposium “International Law in the Face of Russia’s Aggression in Ukraine: The View from Lviv” Patryk I. Labuda’s (@PILabuda) Just Security article “Accountability for Russian Imperialism in the ‘Global East’”Just Security’s International Law coverageJust Security’s Russia-Ukraine War coverageMusic: “Broken” by David Bullard from Uppbeat: https://uppbe

On March 6, 2024, Just Security and the Reiss Center on Law and Security at NYU School of Law co-hosted an all-star panel of experts to discuss the issue of government “jawboning” – a practice of informal government efforts to persuade, or strong-arm, private platforms to change their content-moderation practices. Many aspects of jawboning remain unsettled but could come to a head later this month when the Supreme Court hears arguments in a case called Murthy v. Missouri on March 18. Murthy poses several questions that defy easy answer, driving at the heart of how we wish to construct and regulate what some consider to be the modern public square.The expert panel consists of Jameel Jaffer, the Executive Director of the Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia University and an Executive Editor at Just Security; Kathryn Ruemmler, the Chief Legal Officer and General Counsel of Goldman Sachs and former White House Counsel to President Barack Obama; and Colin Stretch, the Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary of Etsy and the former General Counsel of Facebook (now Meta). Just Security’s Co-Editor-in-Chief, Ryan Goodman, moderated the discussion. This NYU Law Forum was sponsored by the law firm Latham & Watkins. Show Notes: Jameel Jaffer (@JameelJaffer) Kathryn RuemmlerColin StretchRyan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) Reiss Center on Law and Security at NYU School of LawJust Security’s First Amendment coverageJust Security’s Content Moderation coverageMusic: “Broken” by David Bullard from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/david-bullard/broken (License code: OSC7K3LCPSGXISVI)

On February 27, 2024, Just Security hosted a live event for the launch of Professor Barbara McQuade’s new book, Attack from Within: How Disinformation is Sabotaging America. Barbara is an Editor at Just Security and a Professor from Practice at the University of Michigan Law School. She joined NYU Professor of History and Italian Studies Ruth Ben-Ghiat for a conversation about the book followed by questions from the audience. Just Security’s Co-Editor-in-Chief, Ryan Goodman, introduced Barbara and Ruth. This event was co-sponsored with the NYU Institute for Public Knowledge and the American Constitution Society.  Show Notes: Barbara McQuade (@BarbMcQuade)Ruth Ben-Ghiat (@ruthbenghiat)Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) NYU Institute for Public KnowledgeAmerican Constitution SocietyJust Security excerpt of Barbara’s book, Attack from Within: How Disinformation is Sabotaging America published by Seven Stories PressJust Security’s Disinformation coverageJust Security’s Rule of Law coverageMusic: “Broken” by David Bullard from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/david-bullard/broken (License code: OSC7K3LCPSGXISVI)

On Feb. 29, 2024, Just Security welcomed the Director of National Intelligence, Avril Haines, to NYU School of Law for an event in celebration of Just Security’s 10th anniversary year.Just Security’s Co-Editors-in-Chief, Tess Bridgeman and Ryan Goodman, introduced Director Haines who delivered remarks regarding strategic declassification, the role of law, and transparency in the intelligence community. Director Haines then joined NYU School of Law Dean Troy McKenzie for a question and answer fireside chat. Show Notes: Avril HainesTroy McKenzieTess Bridgeman (@bridgewriter)Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) Just SecurityReiss Center on Law and Security at NYU School of LawMusic: “Broken” by David Bullard from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/david-bullard/broken (License code: OSC7K3LCPSGXISVI)

Late one evening in January 2013, a group of men carrying Kalashnikov rifles approached another man. Their faces were hidden behind balaclavas and they smelled of alcohol. It was the height of the Syrian civil war, and the group of men were supporters of President Bashar al-Assad’s regime. They arrested the man and handed him over to Syrian Air Force intelligence officials who detained and tortured him. A Dutch court recently convicted one of those masked men involved in the arrest, known in court papers as Mustafa A., of war crimes and crimes against humanity.  The verdict is the first time that a Dutch court has convicted a defendant who supported Assad’s regime during the civil war, and it is the latest example of how courts across Europe are playing an active role in holding perpetrators of atrocity crimes to account. Joining the show to discuss the case and its implications are Fritz Streiff and Hope Rikkelman. Fritz and Hope work with The Nuhanovic Foundation, a nonprofit organization which helps to secure justice and reparations for civilian victims of war and conflict. The Foundation played an active role in this case. Show Notes: Fritz Streiff (@fritz_streiff) Hope Rikkelman (@HRikkelman) Paras Shah (@pshah518) Fritz and Hope’s Just Security article on the Syria war crimes prosecutionJust Security’s atrocities coverageJust Security’s Syria coverageJust Security’s universal jurisdiction coverageMusic: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)Music: “Broken” by David Bullard from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/david-bullard/broken (License code: OSC7K3LCPSGXISVI)

Vladimir Kara-Murza is one of Russia’s most famous political prisoners. He is a longtime opposition leader and prominent guest columnist for The Washington Post who was poisoned twice in incidents that are widely attributed to the Kremlin. And yet, like another famous opposition leader currently imprisoned in Russia, Alexei Navalny, Vladimir Kara-Murza was determined to return to his homeland to continue his human rights work after recovering from attempts on his life. In April 2022, Russian authorities arrested him and charged him with “high treason.” He was eventually sentenced to 25 years in prison. In late January, Vladimir’s wife, Evgenia, reported that he had been moved from his prison and that his whereabouts were unknown. Though he has now resurfaced at a new prison in Siberia, Vladimir is being held in the strictest form of isolation and his situation remains dire. In Russia and other repressive countries, the situation is also dire for the lawyers trying to defend those political prisoners. The lawyers often face threats to their lives or threats of prosecution themselves simply for doing their jobs. Joining the show to discuss Vladimir Kara-Murza’s case, and the broader risks facing political prisoners and lawyers in Russia, are Vladimir’s wife, Evgenia Kara-Murza, and his lawyer for more than 10 years, Vadim Prokhorov. Evgenia is Advocacy Director of the Free Russia Foundation and has tirelessly advocated for the rights of her husband and other political prisoners in Russia, and Vadim has represented a range of Kremlin critics who’ve been targeted by the regime, including opposition politicians and anti-corruption campaigners. He was forced to flee Russia last April, just days before Vladimir’s sentence was handed down, because the prosecutor and the judge in the case threatened to prosecute him, too.Show Notes: Evgenia Kara-Murza (@ekaramurza)Vadim ProkhorovVladimir Kara-Murza (@vkaramurza)Viola Gienger (@ViolaGienger)Paras Shah (@pshah518) Free Russia FoundationThe American Bar Association’s Justice Defenders ProgramVadim’s Just Security article “A Lawyer for Political Prisoners on Why He Fled Russia”Just Security’s Russia coverageJust Security’s Rule of Law coverageMusic: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)Music: “Caravan” by “Arend” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/arend/caravan (License code: QVHYMGIQGD5TGMEP)

From products like ChatGPT to resource allocation and cancer diagnoses, artificial intelligence will impact nearly every part of our lives. We know the potential benefits of AI are enormous, but so are the risks, including chemical and bioweapons attacks, more effective disinformation campaigns, AI-enabled cyber-attacks, and lethal autonomous weapons systems. Policymakers have taken steps to address these risks, but industry and civil society leaders are warning that these efforts still fall short. Last year saw a flurry of efforts to regulate AI. In October, the Biden administration issued an executive order to encourage “responsible” AI development, in November, the U.K. hosted the world’s first global AI Safety Summit to explore how best to mitigate some of the greatest risks facing humanity, and in December European Union policymakers passed a deal imposing new transparency requirements on AI systems. Are efforts to regulate AI working? What else needs to be done? That’s the focus of our show today. It’s clear we are at an inflection point in AI governance – where innovation is outpacing regulation. But while States face a common problem in regulating AI, approaches differ and prospects for global cooperation appear limited. There is no better expert to navigate this terrain than Robert Trager, Senior Research Fellow at Oxford University’s Blavatnik School of Government, Co-Director of the Oxford Martin AI Governance Initiative, and International Governance Lead at the Centre for the Governance of AI. Show Notes: Robert Trager (@RobertTrager) Brianna Rosen (@rosen_br)Paras Shah (@pshah518) Just Security’s Symposium on AI Governance: Power, Justice, and the Limits of the LawJust Security’s Artificial Intelligence coverageJust Security’s Autonomous Weapons Systems coverageMusic: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)Music: “Broken” by David Bullard from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/david-bullard/broken (License code: OSC7K3LCPSGXISVI)

On Friday, January 26, the International Court of Justice issued its Opinion granting provisional measures in South Africa’s genocide case against Israel.  At this early stage of the proceedings, the Court did not determine whether Israel’s conduct amounts to genocide – that potential determination is left for what is known as the “merits” phase of the case, which will likely occur years from now. Instead, today the Court held that Israel’s actions to minimize harm to civilians did not sufficiently remove the risk of irreparable harm and ordered Israel to take specific actions including refraining from acts under the Genocide Convention, preventing and punishing incitement to genocide and taking effective measures to allow for the provision of humanitarian assistance, among others. Joining the show to discuss the Court’s Opinion and its implications are law professors Adil Haque, Oona Hathaway, and Yuval Shany. They have each written extensively about the case and its potential impact, including on Just Security. Show Notes: Adil Ahmad Haque (@AdHaque110)Oona A. Hathaway (@oonahathaway) Yuval Shany (@yuvalshany1) Paras Shah (@pshah518) Just Security’s South Africa v. Israel coverage  Just Security’s Israel-Hamas war coverageMusic: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)Music: “The World Between Us” by Cory Alstad from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/cory-alstad/the-wound-between-us (License code: GMVY1M06I3QWDKJJ)

This week, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders used a little-known, decades-old law to force the Senate to vote on whether to request an investigation of potential human rights abuses by Israel in its war against Hamas. The obscure process that Sanders used is known as Section 502B of the Foreign Assistance Act. The law allows Congress to request a mandatory human rights report from the State Department on a specified country. And if the State Department does not provide a report within 30 days of the request, U.S. security assistance to the target country stops. While the resolution ultimately failed on January 16, it shows that Section 502B has the potential to become a powerful tool for forcing public discussion about alleged human rights and the United States’ role in facilitating them. Joining the show to unpack how Section 502B works, along with its history and new efforts to use it, is John Chappell. John is an Advocacy & Legal Fellow at the Center for Civilians in Conflict (CIVIC). He’s an expert on Section 502B. Show Notes: John Ramming Chappell (@jwrchappell) Paras Shah (@pshah518) John’s Just Security article on Senator Sanders’ Section 502B resolution Just Security’s arms sales coverageJust Security’s Congressional oversight coverageJust Security’s Israel-Hamas War coverageMusic: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)Music: “Broken” by David Bullard from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/david-bullard/broken (License code: OSC7K3LCPSGXISVI)

This year’s version of the U.N. climate meeting, or COP, concluded last week in the United Arab Emirates. Nearly 200 nations from around the world agreed to a historic deal to transition away from fossil fuels in a “just, orderly and equitable manner” and leaders pledged $700 million in funds to address the loss and damage from climate change. But as with any global agreement, now comes the hard part of turning words on paper into reality as countries decide how to implement their new commitments. Joining the show to discuss the developments at COP28 and what comes next is Mark Nevitt. Mark is a professor at Emory Law School and an expert on climate change.Show Notes: Paras Shah (@pshah518) Mark P. Nevitt (@MarkNevitt) Mark’s Just Security article “Assessing COP 28: The New Global Climate Deal in Dubai” Just Security’s COP28 coverageJust Security’s climate change coverageMusic: “The Parade” by “Hey Pluto!” from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/hey-pluto/the-parade (License code: 36B6ODD7Y6ODZ3BX)Music: “Breathing Water (Solo Piano)” by Cedric Vermue from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/cedric-vermue/breathing-water-solo-piano (License code: MH0XYFEO1YABWIMJ)