
The Starfish and the Church
The Starfish and the Church podcast is a mix of interviews and storytelling where hosts Rob Wegner and Lance Ford explore a paradigm shift away from modern, hierarchical structures of leadership to a radical Jesus-centered, starfish approach. Like the podcast, check out more at thestarfishandthespirit.com
Latest episodes

Nov 19, 2024 • 52min
Collaborate or Die: The Future of the Church is Networked, Not Hierarchical (Brian Sanders)
Join the the Starfish Substack for free. You'll gain access to you’ll gain access to practical wisdom, articles, tools, assessments and insights that foster your growth as a Starfish Leader"Collaboration is the most needed technology.""No great Kingdom thing happens alone."In this episode of the Starfish and the Church podcast, hosts Lance Ford and Rob Wegner engage with Brian Sanders, a social entrepreneur and founder of the Underground Network. They explore Brian's journey to faith, the importance of collaboration in leadership, and the need for unity within the church. Brian shares insights on the challenges of articulating a unified vision for the church and the transformative power of collaborative efforts. The conversation also touches on the future of microchurches and the shift from hierarchical to networked communities, emphasizing the significance of transcendent goals in fostering collaboration.Look for a fresh Starfish Principles article tomorrow on the Four Keys to Collaboration.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Brian Sanders and His Work03:00 Brian's Journey to Faith and Collaboration06:09 Understanding COHATCH and Its Mission09:12 The Importance of Collaboration in Leadership11:58 The Need for Unity and Collaboration in the Church15:01 Developing Collaborative Skills in Leadership18:12 The Shift from Hierarchical to Collaborative Leadership21:04 The Role of Exhaustion in Leadership Transformation24:09 The Biblical Basis for Collaboration26:52 The Challenge of Articulating a Unified Church Vision29:47 The Power of Transcendent Goals in Collaboration32:52 NASA as a Model for Collaboration35:51 Stories of Hope in Collaborative Communities39:09 The Future of Microchurches and Networked Communities

Nov 14, 2024 • 25min
Hot Takes: The Trump Prophecies - What do we do with prophecy in the modern church?
In this first episode of Hot Takes, hosts Rob Wegner and Lance Ford, along with guest Chris Caputo, delve into the controversial topic of Trump prophecies and their implications within the charismatic church. They explore the nature of prophetic ministry, the importance of community discernment, and the criteria for evaluating prophetic words. The conversation emphasizes the need for accountability, character assessment, and the relational dynamics of prophecy in the New Testament context.

Nov 13, 2024 • 1h 10min
Trump, Harris, the Election, the Church and Unmasking the Powers (...the real deep state!)
Join the the Starfish Substack for free. You'll gain access to you’ll gain access to practical wisdom, articles, tools, assessments and insights that foster your growth as a Starfish Leader
In this conversation, Lance Ford and Rob Wegner interview JR Woodward, the author of 'The Scandal of Leadership: Unmasking the Powers of Domination in the Church.' They discuss the concept of the powers, which include Satan, the demonic, and the principalities and powers. Woodward argues that the Western evangelical church has a weak theology of the powers, which leaves it vulnerable and deceived. He emphasizes the need for a deeper understanding of the powers, as they shape all of reality, including the social and personal. Woodward also explores the metaphor of a whirlpool to illustrate how the powers create a current that pulls people in and influences their behavior. The conversation explores the principalities of public image, institutions, and ideologies. It discusses how public image exists independent of a person and can lead to mental illness. It also examines how institutions seek ultimate allegiance and can become demonic when they exist for their own survival. The conversation delves into the temptations faced by Jesus and how they relate to identity, power, and control. It emphasizes the importance of finding our sense of significance in Christ and engaging the powers through our identity, praxis, and telos. The conversation concludes with a discussion on letting go and embracing self-emptying. In this final part of the conversation, JR Woodward discusses the concept of ideology as idolatry and the dangers of being captive to ideologies. He explains how ideologies have their own account of sin and redemption, as well as their own scapegoats. He emphasizes the need for a proper understanding of the kingdom of God and Jesus' way of bringing it about as the antidote to ideology. The conversation also touches on the powers at play in the current election cycle and the impact on the evangelical church in America.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Excitement for Season Three
02:52 JR Woodward's Story and Journey to Faith
08:02 Leading the V3 Church Planting Movement
13:01 The Scandal of Leadership: Unmasking the Powers of Domination in the Church
16:21 Understanding the Powers: Satan, the Demonic, and the Principalities
22:35 The Whirlpool Effect: How the Powers Influence and Pull People In
23:56 The Image, Institution, and Ideology of the Powers
27:02 The Danger of Institutions
34:45 Engaging the Powers: Temptations and Identity
43:44 Letting Go and Embracing Self-Emptying
46:24 Ideology as Idolatry
49:21 The Antidote to Ideology
57:02 Mimetic Desire and the Scapegoat Mechanism
01:01:42 The Uniqueness of the Bible
01:05:30 Leadership Rooted in Imitating Jesus

Jun 24, 2021 • 42min
Narcissism and Church Leadership: An Interview with Chuck DeGroat
Chuck DeGroat is Professor of Counseling and Christian Spirituality at Western Theological Seminary (Holland, MI) and Co-Founder and Senior Fellow at Newbigin House of Studies, San Francisco. He is passionate about spiritual formation for mission. He’s spent 20+ years in a fluid combination of pastoral ministry, seminary teaching, and clinical counseling. His latest book is "When Narcissism Comes to Church."
https://chuckdegroat.net/

Jun 17, 2021 • 51min
Joshua Johnson Conversation
This episode is an interview done by Joshua Johnson of All Nations in Kansas City. You can check out their podcast: Shifting Culture, here. Joshua interviews Rob about the Starfish and The Spirit concept and how it plays out practically with the Kansas City Underground.

May 27, 2021 • 46min
An Interview with Peyton Jones: Ministry Ninja
Peyton Jones is a seasoned church ministry ninja with over 25 years of experience as a church planter, national public speaker, author, and podcaster.

May 20, 2021 • 42min
The Spider, Spiderfish, Starder, and Spiderfish Continuum with Brian Phipps.
Brian Phipps serves as President of Disciples Made based out of Shawnee, KS. He brings strong leadership and investments in championing the spiritual growth of leaders, and therefore disciples, everywhere.

May 13, 2021 • 47min
Mandy Smith, Author of Unfettered
Originally from Australia, Mandy Smith is a pastor, author and speaker. Mandy loves the opportunity to engage Christian thinkers and leaders through her speaking and writing. She is a regular contributor to Christianity Today and Missio Alliance and the author of The Vulnerable Pastor: How Human Limitations Empower Our Ministry (IVP). Her next book, Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith Beyond the Baggage of Western Culture (Brazos), will release in May, 2021. Mandy and her husband, a New Testament professor, live with their family in a little house where the teapot is always warm. Check out more at thewayistheway.org Check out more about Starfish and the Spirit at https://www.thestarfishandthespirit.com/

May 6, 2021 • 42min
Greg Boyd
Greg Boyd is an internationally recognized theologian, preacher, teacher, apologist and author. Greg has authored or co-authored 22 books and numerous academic articles, including his best-selling and award-winning Letters From a Skeptic and his recent books Crucifixion of the Warrior God and Cross Vision. His apologetic writings and public debates on the historical Jesus and the problem of evil have helped many skeptics embrace faith, and his writings and seminars on spiritual transformation have had a revolutionary, freeing impact on thousands of believers.

Apr 29, 2021 • 50min
Nancy Beach
In this episode, Rob and Lance interview Nancy Beach. Nancy Beach is most known for her groundbreaking ministry to more fully unleash the arts in the local church, and for leading artists with grace, wisdom, and skill. For over 20 years she served as the Programming Director of Willow Creek Community Church in suburban Chicago, building a community of artists who sought to create transformational moments in weekend church services. Nancy also served as a Teaching Pastor, periodically bringing the weekend message. She invested five years as a leadership team member of the Willow Creek Association, an organization that exists to envision and inspire church leaders all over the world. In over 26 countries and on 6 continents, Nancy has shared her passion, teaching at conferences and workshops.