The Starfish and the Church

Alan Hirsch, a leading expert on apostolic leadership, joins Rob Wegner and Brian Johnson for a lively discussion over pizza. They explore the role of apostles as either power-hungry generals or humble gardeners nurturing the church. The trio dives into the dangers of unchecked authority, the need for accountability, and the contrasting styles of apostles Paul and Peter. Hirsch shares personal stories, including a surprising recruitment saga, while advocating for a community-focused approach that prioritizes Jesus' teachings over authoritarian control.

Bonus Conversation: Same Vocabulary, Different SpiritWhat happens when the same fivefold vocabulary is used—but fueled by a radically different spirit?In this episode, Rob Wegner, Brian Johnson, and Alan Hirsch dive into the fork in the road facing the Church today. On one side: the rise of the New Apostolic Reformation, steeped in hierarchy, dominion theology, and Christian nationalism. On the other: the Spirit-distributed, Jesus-shaped model of Ephesians 4 ministry—where power is cruciform and every disciple is activated.This conversation unpacks why fivefold leadership isn’t just a theological side note—it’s a discipleship crisis, a leadership reckoning, and a call to rewild the Church. Same vocabulary. Different spirit. Totally different outcomes.🔗 Read the full companion article and join the conversation at starfishyou.substack.com

Bonus Conversation: The Rise of the Servant Equippers (ft. Lucas Pulley)Episode Description:What kind of leadership helps movements multiply without losing their soul? In this Bonus Conversation from the Hubology series, Rob, Brian, and Lucas Pulley (Tampa Underground) unpack the hidden role of servant equipers—those who quietly cultivate health, support microchurch leaders, and build only the structures the vine actually needs.They explore the power of invisible leadership, the difference between hub teams and governing elders, and why you should never build what you don’t yet need.Whether you’re planting your first microchurch or navigating how to scale a decentralized network, this conversation offers grounded wisdom, practical frameworks, and a whole lot of laughter (and hot pink cast drama).🎧 More conversations, articles, and resources at: https://starfishyou.substack.com#microchurch #disciplemaking #movementleadership #decentralizedchurch #starfishandthespirit

In this bonus episode, Rob and Brian tackle one of the most pivotal questions in movement leadership: When is it time to form a hub team? Drawing from years of experience with the Kansas City Underground, they explore why starting with structure can sabotage multiplication—and how waiting on the Spirit’s timing creates space for healthy, decentralized networks to flourish.You’ll hear stories, biblical insights, and practical frameworks for discerning the right time to equip, coach, and convene through a hub team. Plus, learn about our free Hub Development Cohort and the KC Underground Intensive coming this summer.👂 What You’ll Learn:– Why forming a hub too early can kill a movement– The three core functions of every hub team– How to recognize emerging servant-equipers in your city– The role of extraordinary prayer and fasting in network formation📍 For more: starfishyou.substack.com🌐 Apply for the next Hub Cohort: kcunderground.org

In this Bonus Conversation, we explore the power of contextualization within decentralized movement leadership through a deep dive into two distinct hubs in the Kansas City Underground: Zero Hour, equipping high school students, and Western Edge, serving a broad suburban and rural network.Cory McElvain (Zero Hour) and Brian Johnson (Western Edge) join us to share how they each adapt the core functions of equipping, coaching, and convening for their unique communities. From student-led microchurches to intergenerational discipleship, this conversation offers real-world insight into the beauty and challenge of contextual leadership.🔑 Key Highlights:Contextualization in Action: Compare how a youth-focused hub and a multi-demographic hub live out the same movement principles differently.Equipping Students vs. Families: Learn how training content is adapted—from 4-week essentials to deep dives with seasoned leaders.Real-Time Coaching vs. Long-Form Mentoring: Hear how coaching rhythms flex with life stage and context.Different Models of Convening: Explore how monthly student gatherings contrast with long-term rhythms of adult fellowship and planning.One Movement, Many Expressions: Discover why contextualization isn’t optional—it’s essential in decentralized systems.📖 This conversation builds on the companion article: “No Two Hubs Are the Same.”🎧 Listen now and learn how leaders are innovating with courage and care to multiply disciple-makers in diverse soil.🔗 Read, share, and subscribe for more conversations from the frontlines of missional movement: https://starfishyou.substack.com/

Bonus Conversation: Equipping Gatherings vs. Weekend Services - What's the Difference?In this bonus episode, we explore how equipping gatherings form a radically different culture than weekend services. It’s not about inspiration—it’s about incarnation. From stories of mission to discovery-based training, these gatherings function more like a gym than a theater, equipping ordinary people to live as everyday disciple-makers.🎧 Listen now, and get the companion article, and then dive deeper at starfishyou.substack.com

In this Bonus Conversation, we dive into the heart of equipping—the very lifeblood that powers decentralized disciple-making. As we explore hubs, tools, and training, we uncover the core of equipping at the edge. This isn't about more content; it’s about transforming lives and multiplying Kingdom work through intentional, practical support. Check out the companion article over at https://starfishyou.substack.com/Key Takeaways:🔥 Tools MatterWhen it comes to disciple-making, tools aren't optional—they're essential. In fact, tools are a core part of how we equip ordinary people to live extraordinary lives on mission. From context mapping (apostolic + evangelistic) to lament practices (prophetic + shepherding), tools help activate action, shape culture, and drive transformation.🔥 Equipping Through Action, Not IdeasDiscipleship isn’t learned through content dumps; it’s learned through practice. People act their way into new ways of thinking. Just like plumbers need wrenches, disciple-makers need tools—simple, repeatable tools that lead to action.🔥 Training Huddles: High Support, High ChallengeIn a hub, equipping isn't a passive experience. It's a relational space where everyday people are coached to lead. Training huddles offer high support and high challenge, flipping the classroom dynamic. No gurus here—just facilitators who help midwife what the Spirit is already birthing in the lives of disciple-makers.🔥 Equipping Frameworks: Holistic Tools for GrowthOur equipping isn’t random. It’s based on intentional frameworks that help disciple-makers see their journey—tools, training, and rhythms that go beyond mere theory. The Disciple-Maker Pathway lays out five interconnected phases of growth—prayer, incarnational mission, planting the Gospel, microchurch emergence, and multiplication.🔥 Context is KeyEquipping isn’t one-size-fits-all. It's contextual. The tools we use, the huddles we create, and the frameworks we build are all shaped by the environments we’re in. As we evolve, we listen—what are the gaps? Where are we getting stuck? And how can we adapt?The Bottom Line:Equipping is always evolving. It’s about listening to the Holy Spirit, staying humble, and adapting to the needs of the edge. As we listen, learn, and lean into Jesus, we create space for people to grow and multiply—becoming the hands and feet of Jesus in their everyday places.

In this Bonus Conversation, we launch our new series on Hubology—a made-up word for a very real need in decentralized movements. As disciple-making spreads and microchurches multiply, one essential structure keeps emerging again and again: the Hub Team.So what is a hub? Not a headquarters. Not a hierarchy.A hub is a catalytic team that equips, coaches, and convenes a network of disciple-makers and microchurches within a specific geography or affinity. This isn’t theory—it’s the practical trellis that helps sustain and multiply the wild vine of movement.🔥 Hubs emerge organically.🔥 Minimal hubology = three core functions.🔥 Equipping = tools, not just ideas.🔥 Coaching = presence, not just expertise.🔥 Convening = catalytic connection.🔥 No cookie cutters. Hubs are contextual. TCheck out the companion article and join the conversation over at https://starfishyou.substack.com/

MillarHow do we know if we’re contextualizing the Gospel—or just colonizing with it?What if our good intentions are still laced with cultural superiority?Could cultural humility be the next great frontier for disciple-making movements in the West?In this episode of The Starfish and the Church, I sat down with Dr. Longa and Matt Millar, co-authors of The Church in Context: Harnessing Cultural Humility for Kingdom Advancement (coming soon). Drawing from decades of cross-cultural ministry and leadership across Africa, North America, and beyond, they unpack what it means to move beyond strategies and into postures that reflect the incarnation of Jesus.We explore:The four layers of culture—worldview, beliefs, values, and behaviors—and why we often get stuck judging the fruit while ignoring the root.The framework of cultural intelligence (CQ) and how leaders can grow in motivation, knowledge, strategy, and action.Jesus’ own journey of humility—love, submission, acceptance, and assimilation—as the model for cross-cultural mission.How colonial and crusade-style mission still echo in modern disciple-making—and what repentance looks like today.Why the opposites of cultural humility (selfishness, pride, rejection, and imposition) are still alive in the Western church.Practical steps to cultivate humility: hospitality, exposure, interviews, and learning to see through others' eyes.Join the convesation over at https://starfishyou.substack.com/

In this episode, you get to eavesdrop on a Starfish Accelerator, and hear from Lance Ford, as wee unpack the idea of a system story—the invisible narrative that shapes how we lead and live. Drawing from scripture and missional thought, we explore why real change in the church won’t happen until we rewrite the system story around the Lordship of Jesus.We contrast institutional leadership with Kingdom leadership, and challenge listeners to embrace a story of shared power, servanthood, and Spirit-led movement.👉 Dig deeper with the companion article at ⁠starfishyou.substack.com