The Gray Area with Sean Illing cover image

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Latest episodes

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Aug 25, 2022 • 47min

Even Better: Don't call it a budget

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.In the fourth and final episode, host Julia Furlan talks with financial planner Paco de Leon, author and illustrator of Finance for the People, an accessible, real-talk guide to taking control of your finances. They discuss why it can be emotional to talk about money, the difficult historical realities of financial planning usually avoided by most financial advice-givers, and some real, practical steps for how to face your financial fears and take control of your money — right now.Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)Guest: Paco de Leon, author; illustrator; founder, The Hell Yeah GroupReferences:  Finance for the People: Getting a Grip on Your Finances (Penguin Life; 2022) Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Aug 22, 2022 • 52min

The quest for authenticity

Sean Illing talks with Skye Cleary, philosopher and author of the new book How to Be Authentic. The book is an examination of how to live an authentic life through the lens of the life and thought of the great French philosopher Simone de Beauvoir (1908–1986). Sean and Skye discuss what authenticity really means — and how it's often a misused term today, why we should resist performing roles predetermined for us by society, and how to have a truly intimate relationship without surrendering yourself — or your freedom.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, VoxGuest: Skye Cleary (@Skye_Cleary), author, philosopherReferences:  How to Be Authentic: Simone de Beauvoir and the Quest for Fulfillment by Skye Cleary (St. Martin's; 2022) "Existentialism Is a Humanism" by Jean-Paul Sartre (1946) The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir (1949; tr. 2011 by Constance Borde & Sheila Malovany-Chevallier) Aristophanes's speech in Plato's Symposium, 189c–193e The Useless Mouths, play by Simone de Beauvoir (1945) Inseparable by Simone de Beauvoir (tr. Sandra Smith; published for the first time by Ecco; 2021) "Before She Loved Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir loved Zaza" by Leslie Camhi (New York Times; Aug. 27, 2021) After The Second Sex: Conversations with Simone de Beauvoir by Alice Schwarzer (Pantheon; 1984) Memoirs of a Dutiful Daughter by Simone de Beauvoir (1958) Pyrrhus et Cinéas by Simone de Beauvoir (1944)  Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Aug 18, 2022 • 45min

Even Better: Setting your boundaries

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.In the third episode, host Julia Furlan talks with Nedra Glover Tawwab, licensed therapist, relationship expert, and author of the NYT best-seller Set Boundaries, Find Peace. Nedra's focus is on the importance of setting boundaries in your relationships, and she talks about many strategies for doing this that are much more nuanced than simply saying "no" or cutting ties. Julia and Nedra talk about how to get over the fear of disappointing people, the ethics of "ghosting" someone, and how even small changes in our patterns of behavior can lead to better, more fulfilling relationships.Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)Guest: Nedra Glover Tawwab (@NedraTawwab), therapist; authorReferences:  Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by Nedra Glover Tawwab (TarcherPerigee; 2021) Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Aug 15, 2022 • 55min

Your gut instinct is usually wrong

Sean Illing talks with former Google data scientist Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, author of Don't Trust Your Gut. Seth argues that the way we make decisions is wrong, outdated, and based on methods or conventional wisdom that lead us astray from getting what we want. Sean and Seth discuss the idea of using data in place of our own intuition and reason to help us through things like online dating, picking a place to live, and being a better parent. Plus, how can we trust "experience sampling" studies that rely on self-reporting, when — after all — everybody lies?Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, VoxGuest: Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (@SethS_D), authorReferences:  Don't Trust Your Gut: Using Data to Get What You Really Want in Life by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (Dey Street; 2022) Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz (Dey Street; 2018) Moneyball (dir. Bennett Miller, 2011); based on the book Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2004) "Capitalists in the Twenty-First Century" by Matthew Smith et al. (Quarterly Journal of Economics v. 134 (4); 2019) The Mappiness Project, created by George MacKerron and Susanna Mourato "Machine learning uncovers the most robust self-report predictors of relationship quality across 43 longitudinal couples studies" by Samantha Joel et al. (PNAS v. 117 (32); 2020) "Are You Happy While You Work?" by Alex Bryson and George MacKerron (The Economic Journal v. 127 (599); Feb. 2017) "Experienced well-being rises with income, even above $75,000 per year" by Matthew Killingsworth (PNAS v. 118 (4); 2021) "The Amount and Source of Millionaires' Wealth (Moderately) Predicts Their Happiness" by Grand Edward Donnelly et al. (Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin v. 44 (5); May 2018) “When Choice Is Demotivating: Can One Desire Too Much of a Good Thing?” by Sheena S. Iyengar and Mark R. Lepper (J. of Personality and Social Psychology, 79(6); 2000) "The Effects of Exposure to Better Neighborhoods on Children: New EvidenceFfrom the Moving to Opportunity Project" by Raj Chetty et al. (American Economic Review v. 106 (4); 2016) "Education Doesn't Work" by Freddie deBoer (Substack; Apr. 12, 2021) "Predicting political elections from rapid and unreflective face judgments" by Charles C. Ballew and Alexander Todorov (PNAS v. 104 (46); 2007) Dataclysm: Love, Sex, Race, and Identity — What Our Online Lives Tell Us About Our Offline Selves by Christian Rudder (Crown; 2015)  Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Aug 11, 2022 • 53min

Even Better: Workplace equality 2.0

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.In the second episode, host Julia Furlan talks with author and CEO Minda Harts about how to fight for equality in the workplace. Harts’s work has focused on empowering people, particularly women of color, to find their voice and secure a seat at the table. Julia and Minda discuss the failures of "Lean In" to meaningfully address these issues, how to overcome common workplace obstacles and stereotypes, and how to achieve success through enrolling your coworkers and colleagues in the project of creating a truly equitable and respectful workplace.Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)Guest: Minda Harts (@MindaHarts), author; founder and CEO of The MemoReferences:  You Are More Than Magic: The Black and Brown Girls' Guide to Finding Your Voice by Minda Harts  The Memo: What Women of Color Need to Know to Secure a Seat at the Table by Minda Harts Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead by Sheryl Sandberg   Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Erikk GeannikisEditor: Amy DrozdowskaEngineer: Patrick BoydDeputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Aug 8, 2022 • 59min

Why we're still postmodern (whatever that means)

Sean Illing talks with Stuart Jeffries, journalist and author of Everything, All the Time, Everywhere, about why postmodernism is so hard to define, and why — as Jeffries argues — it's still a very active presence in our culture and politics today. They discuss whether our desire should be understood as subversive or as a tool of capitalism, how postmodernism is inextricably linked with neoliberalism, and how to navigate our current culture of ubiquitous consumption and entertainment. What should we watch on TV: Boris Johnson's resignation speech, or the reality show Love Is Blind?Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, VoxGuest: Stuart Jeffries, author; feature writer, The GuardianReferences:  Everything, All the Time, Everywhere: How We Became Postmodern by Stuart Jeffries (Verso; 2021) "The post-truth prophets" by Sean Illing (Vox; Nov. 16, 2019) The Postmodern Condition by Jean-François Lyotard (Univ. of Minnesota Press; 1979, tr. 1984) Simulacra and Simulation by Jean Baudrillard (Univ. of Michigan Press; 1981, tr. 1983) Postmodernism: Style and Subversion, 1970–1990 (exhibition catalog, Victoria and Albert Museum, London, UK; Sept. 24, 2011 – Jan. 15, 2012) "Postmodernism: from the cutting edge to the museum" by Hari Kunzru (The Guardian; Sept. 15, 2011) "You're sayin' a foot massage don't mean nothin', and I'm sayin' it does" by James Wood (Guardian Supplement; Nov. 19, 1994) Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Aug 4, 2022 • 49min

Even Better: Activism when you don't know where to start

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and collectively.In this first episode, host Julia Furlan talks with activist, writer, and organizer Brea Baker. Brea's career has included student activism at Yale University, national organizing for the Women's March, and continues today through action-oriented work on behalf of progressive causes. Brea talks about how her work is informed by radical love, how she confronts obstacles in the movement on both personal and organizational scales, and how we can push back against despair and dread, and come into our power — no matter where we're at.Host: Julia Furlan (@juliastmi)Guests: Brea Baker (@Brea_Baker), activist; writer; Chief Equity Officer, Inspire JusticeReferences:  "bell hooks Taught Us To Both Practice and Preach Radical Love" by Brea Baker (Elle; Dec. 20, 2021) The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander (New Press; 2010) "Yale Announces a New Center for Race Studies. A Yale Senior Asks, Now What?" by Brea Baker (Elle; Feb. 23, 2016) "Why I Became an Abolitionist" by Brea Baker (Harper's Bazaar; Dec. 10, 2020) We Do This 'Til We Free Us: Abolitionist Organizing and Transforming Justice by Mariame Kaba (Haymarket; 2021) Even Better is here to offer deeply sourced, actionable advice for helping you live a better life. Follow Even Better at vox.com/even-better.Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Aug 1, 2022 • 1h 6min

The Supreme Court's power grab

Sean Illing talks with Harvard Law professor Nikolas Bowie about the U.S. Supreme Court's recently-concluded term, which produced landmark opinions restricting the power of the EPA, expanding gun rights, and overturning Roe v. Wade. They discuss how the conservative court's arguments are structured and why they are in fact quite radical, what "legal liberalism" is and whether it has just been decisively repudiated, and whether there are any reforms that could stop the conservative majority from reshaping American jurisprudence.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, VoxGuest: Nikolas Bowie (@nikobowie), Louis D. Brandeis Professor of Law, Harvard Law SchoolReferences:  Presidential Commission on the Supreme Court, Public Meeting, Panel 1 (C-SPAN; June 30) "How the Supreme Court dominates our democracy" by Niko Bowie (Washington Post; July 16, 2021) A Twitter thread on the repudiation of legal liberalism, by @nikobowie Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health (SCOTUS; June 24) 42 U.S. Code §1983 - Civil action for deprivation of rights 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (1868) New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen (SCOTUS; June 23) Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey (SCOTUS; June 29, 1992) Private Government: How Employers Rule Our Lives (and Why We Don't Talk about It) by Elizabeth Anderson (Princeton; 2017) "A new Supreme Court case is the biggest threat to US democracy since January 6" by Ian Millhiser (Vox; June 30) Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Jul 28, 2022 • 1h 6min

How middlemen took over the economy

Vox's Emily Stewart talks with Kathryn Judge, professor at Columbia Law School and author of the new book Direct: The Rise of Middleman Economy and the Power of Going to the Source. They discuss how middlemen — which include real estate agents, stock brokers, but also Amazon and Walmart — came to assume such an outsized role in our economy, the pros and cons of middlemen in different market contexts, why Prof. Judge sees a fundamental difference between Etsy and Amazon, and how we consumers can change how we decide what to buy in order to help push the economy in a radically different direction.Host: Emily Stewart (@EmilyStewartM), senior correspondent, VoxGuests: Kathryn Judge (@ProfKateJudge), Harvey J. Goldschmid Professor of Law, Columbia University; authorReferences:  Direct: The Rise of the Middleman Economy and the Power of Going to the Source by Kathryn Judge (Harper Business; 2022) "So Much for Cutting Out the Middleman" by Kathryn Judge (The Atlantic; June 9) "What Is Web3?" by Thomas Stackpole (Harvard Business Review; May 10) "The awful American consumer" by Emily Stewart (Vox; Apr. 7) Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Jul 25, 2022 • 56min

The necessity — and danger — of free speech

Sean Illing talks with Washington Post media columnist Margaret Sullivan about his new book The Paradox of Democracy, which he co-authored with media studies professor Zac Gershberg. Sean and Margaret discuss the relationship between free expression and democratic society, talk about whether or not the January 6th hearings are doing anything at all politically, and discuss some potential ways to bolster democratic values in the media ecology of the present.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, VoxGuest: Margaret Sullivan (@Sulliview), media columnist, Washington PostReferences:  The Paradox of Democracy: Free Speech, Open Media, and Perilous Persuasion by Zac Gershberg and Sean Illing (Chicago; 2022) Ghosting the News: Local Journalism and the Crisis of American Democracy by Margaret Sullivan (Columbia Global Reports; 2020) "Four reasons the Jan. 6 hearings have conquered the news cycle" by Margaret Sullivan (Washington Post; July 22) Understanding Media by Marshall McLuhan (1964) Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman (1985) Newsroom Confidential: Lessons (and Worries) from an Ink-Stained Life by Margaret Sullivan (St. Martin's; Oct. 2022) Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Editor: Amy Drozdowska Engineer: Patrick Boyd Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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