

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler
Podmasters
Exploring threats to global stability from Ukraine to China to the Middle East with host Gavin Esler – former BBC News presenter, Washington correspondent and host of Newsnight – plus Ukraine-based war reporter Oz Katerji and independent conflict analyst Emma Beals. This Is Not A Drill dives deep into the dangers, corruption, conflicts, disinformation, rivalries and ruthless realpolitik that are making our world ever more dangerous.Support This Is Not A Drill on Patreon from just £3 per month to get each episode early plus bonus material and exclusive merchandise. From Podmasters, the team behind Oh God, What Now?, Paper Cuts and The Bunker.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Aug 7, 2025 • 35min
Iran vs. Israel and America – What next after the 12 day war?
After the 12 day war, which saw Israel and the US bomb Iran and its nuclear facilities, where next for the Iranian regime?
Questions remain over the Tehran regime’s ability to stay in power after decades of tensions in the region exploded on Iranian soil in June, its strategy of ‘forward defence’ left in ruins following Israel’s attacks on Iranian-aligned militia groups. Will Iran now continue to pursue what’s left of the nuclear programme targeted by US and Israeli strikes, or can a lasting diplomatic solution finally be found?
Gavin Esler talks to Vali Nasr – the Majid Khadduri Professor of International Affairs and Middle East Studies at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies, and the author of Iran’s Grand Strategy – A Political History.
• This episode of This Is Not A Drill is supported by Incogni, the service that keeps your private information safe, protects you from identity theft and keeps your data from being sold. There’s a special offer for This Is Not A Drill listeners – go to https://incogni.com/notadrill to get an exclusive 60% off your annual plan.
• Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this.
Advertisers! Want to reach smart, engaged, influential people with money to spend? (Yes, they do exist). Some 3.5 MILLION people download and watch our podcasts every month – and they love our shows. Why not get YOUR brand in front of our influential listeners with podcast advertising? Contact ads@podmasters.co.uk to find out more
Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jul 31, 2025 • 32min
Why are peace deals so hard to reach?
Why is it so difficult to end wars and what makes peace settlements
so likely to be rejected? These questions echo across the globe in an era of conflict and political division, with attempts to broker peace settlements in Gaza and Ukraine dominating headlines but so far remaining out of reach.
Historian Margaret MacMillan is Professor at the University of Oxford and the author of numerous books on war and peace, including Peacemakers, and joins Gavin Esler to discuss the history and pressing realities of peace negotiations.
• This episode of This Is Not a Drill is supported by Incogni, the service that keeps your private information safe, protects you from identity theft and keeps your data from being sold. There’s a special offer for This Is Not A Drill listeners – go to https://incogni.com/notadrill to get an exclusive 60% off your annual plan.
• Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this.
Buy Peacemakers, through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund This is Not a Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too.
Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jul 24, 2025 • 31min
How Putin stole Russia's future
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, a generation of young Russians hoped for a better future of economic prosperity and personal freedom. Yet three decades later Russia has invaded Ukraine and is isolated from the Western world.
What happened to the dreams of the perestroika generation, and what does Russian society think about Putin’s war and his grip on power?
In the latest episode of This Is Not a Drill, Gavin Esler talks to Russian journalist and writer Irina Borogan, whose book Our Dear Friends in Moscow: The Inside Story of A Broken Generation, co-authored with Andrei Soldatov, tells the story of a group of young Russians torn apart by the political shift in Russia.
Buy Our Dear Friends in Moscow through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll help fund This is Not a Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too.
• Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this.
• This episode of This Is Not A Drill is supported by Incogni, the service that keeps your private information safe, protects you from identity theft and keeps your data from being sold. There’s a special offer for This Is Not A Drill listeners – go to https://incogni.com/notadrill to get an exclusive 60% off your annual plan.
Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

9 snips
Jul 17, 2025 • 27min
Trump’s Putin ultimatum — Can he force an end to the war?
Mark Galeotti, a British historian and expert in Russian security affairs, joins to discuss the shifting dynamics of Trump’s stance on the Ukraine conflict. They dive into Trump's recent support for arming Ukraine and his ultimatum to Putin, weighing its potential effectiveness. The conversation also explores the complexities of sanctions, their limited impact on Russia, and the growing political unrest within the country. With insights into global geopolitics, they evaluate the implications of Trump’s role as a potential mediator in this ongoing crisis.

Jul 10, 2025 • 35min
Appetite for corruption – How Trump is letting kleptocrats destroy the world
In a compelling discussion, Oliver Bullough, a sharp investigative journalist and author, explores how the Trump administration has exacerbated global corruption. He reveals the troubling ties between powerful figures and kleptocrats. Bullough also sheds light on Britain's role in laundering illicit funds and the complexities of U.S. corporate registration that foster opacity. Delving into money laundering techniques like smurfing, he warns of the urgent need for reform in the face of rising corruption and challenges to integrity in financial systems.

Jul 3, 2025 • 47min
Inside the battle for truth – with Bellingcat’s Eliot Higgins
Eliot Higgins, the founder of Bellingcat, dives into the murky waters of misinformation in this enlightening conversation. He explores how political narratives can distort truth and erode trust in democracy. Discussing the delicate differences between misinformation and disinformation, Higgins emphasizes their impact on societal divides. He offers insights into the strategies of state actors, particularly Russia, in manipulating narratives. The dialogue also touches on the vital need for media literacy and rebuilding trust in democratic institutions to combat the rising tide of deceit.

Jun 25, 2025 • 28min
Iran-Israel ceasefire – Will Trump's truce hold?
Julie Norman, a Politics and International Relations professor at UCL, dives into the recent Iran-Israel ceasefire, heavily influenced by Trump's diplomacy. She discusses its immediate violations and the complexities surrounding Iran's nuclear ambitions. The conversation also explores Israel’s political climate and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, emphasizing the unpredictable nature of U.S. involvement. Ultimately, they grapple with whether this fragile truce could lead to genuine peace or remain just a temporary pause in ongoing tensions.

5 snips
Jun 19, 2025 • 27min
Israel-Iran — Will Trump drag America into the conflict?
In a gripping discussion, Paul Salem, a seasoned expert on the Middle East and former president of the Middle East Institute, unpacks the fraught dynamics between Israel and Iran. As tensions escalate, they explore the possibility of U.S. military involvement under Trump, and how his supporters are divided over intervention strategies. Salem also sheds light on the challenges facing Iran's regime amidst internal dissent, and the cautious responses from Arab nations. The conversation is a deep dive into the complexities of geopolitics in this volatile region.

Jun 13, 2025 • 27min
‘Rising Lion’ – What Israel’s onslaught on Iran means
Israel’s unprecedented attack on over 100 targets in Iran – including nuclear facilities, missile sites, and military leadership – has stunned the region. But what does it mean? As Iranian state TV reports the deaths of key regime figures, and nuclear scientists, supreme leader Ali Khamenei promises heavy retaliation for “Operation Rising Lion”. Trump meanwhile warns “it will only get worse” for Iran unless they sign a deal over its nuclear programme.
On this special edition, conflict reporter Oz Katerji is joined by Shashank Joshi, defence editor at The Economist, to look at a potential turning point for the Middle East.
This episode of This Is Not A Drill is supported by Incogni, the service that keeps your private information safe, protects you from identity theft and keeps your data from being sold. There’s a special offer for This Is Not A Drill listeners – go to Incogni.com/notadrill to get an exclusive 60% off your annual plan.
Support us on Patreon to keep This Is Not A Drill producing thought-provoking podcasts like this.
Written and presented by Oz Katerji. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production.
www.podmasters.co.uk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jun 12, 2025 • 25min
Shadow war – Can Britain face down the Russian threat?
Gavin Esler welcomes Sir Richard Shirreff, former NATO Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe and author of 'War with Russia.' They dive into the UK’s strategic defense review, highlighting the urgent need for increased military readiness against the Russian threat. Shirreff argues for a blend of traditional and modern military strategies, emphasizing NATO unity and economic resilience. The conversation also touches on the implications of contemporary nuclear deterrence and the ongoing significance of supporting Ukraine amid rising tensions.