Real Men Feel with Andy Grant

#RealMenFeel ep 276 Gender Role Socialization | How Men Learn To Be Men Real Men Feel hosts conversations that most men aren't having but that all men can benefit from. Today we explore the ways we learn how to be men. Much of that comes from a life-long socialization process, specifically gender role socialization. My guest Dr. Bill DeFranc is a licensed psychologist who has worked in schools, hospitals, group practices, and college counseling centers and had a parenting consulting business. He was an Instructor at Harvard Medical School and has published research on men's gender role socialization. We discuss the positive and negative outcomes of gender role socialization and why men often hold themselves to a more rigid definition of manliness. Bill shares how his research impacted his being a father and the one thing he wishes more men knew. "If you can't see shades of grey, it's going to be a problem." Dr. Bill DeFranc Listen in to discover the most common issues Dr. DeFranc sees in clients related to men's gender role conflict and the shame it can create. Topics and Questions 0:55 - What is gender role socialization? 1:31 - What are some common ways that men are socialized? 2:43 - Does socialization ever stop? 3:34 - Is it difficult to go against your gender socialization? 5:57 - What are some problematic issues for me? 8:22 - What are some beneficial outcomes of gender role socialization for men? 11:12 - Is age a significant factor in the impact of receiving gender role messages? 12:13 - What is toxic masculinity? 14:14 - What is gender role conflict? 15:08 - What got you interested in this? 17:08 - Did anything surprise you in your research? 18:33 - How did that research affect you as a father? 22:11 - Is it each generation's job to push back at their socialization? 24:30 - Do you have advice for parents raising boys? 28:08 - What issues are you seeing in male clients? 31:05 - Who had the most significant impact on you learning what it means to be a man? 32:54 - Did attending an all-male school give you a more rigid version of masculinity or a more expanded one? 34:55 - What is one thing you wish more men knew? 36:17 - What's the best way to find out more about you? Grab some men's gear at realmenfeel.org/swag. Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

Men are told it isn't good to fear things, but you can't be brave or courageous without first recognizing fear. And I've repeatedly found that great things happen when I walk boldly into my fear and do what I'm afraid of. I put out the call in the private Real Men Feel Facebook group for anyone interested in doing a regular guy chat - that means no agenda, nothing to sell or promote- an average dude who has something to share. I said, "If you are interested but terrified, that's a great sign to say, Yes!" My guest for this Regular Guy Chat is husband, father, brother, retired IT professional, and present-day wellness warrior, Ken MacKeen. We talk about trauma, shame, selfishness, and also the incredible personal growth possible on the other side of fear. Ken shares how childhood abuse and abandonment affected his entire life and what happened when he stopped covering up his feelings with alcohol. Thankfully, he realized that solitude, isolation, and loneliness are not good places to be. Ken shares his "one asshole at a time" rule too. Topics and Questions 1:17 - What made you say yes to being on Real Men Feel? 1:50 - Are there specific fears about being here or is more generalized? 2:59 - What was your life like growing up? 5:03 - Were you conscious of this trauma as a child? 5:43 - At what age did you start drinking? 7:15 - Were your siblings treated differently than you? 9:00 - Do you want relationships with your family? 11:15 - Besides alcohol, how did you deal with the shame? 12:17 - What were the messages you got about your emotions while growing up? 13:00 - How was it being a father? 14:40 - Would you have changed anything if you hadn't received the OUI? 16:14 - What man had the biggest impact on you? Tell me about him. 17:15 - What are you most proud of? 18:18 - Can you take any ownership when your sons are complimented? 21:50 - When something triggers you now, what do you think you are angry about? 23:08 - What are you looking forward to? 24:08 - Is there anything you wish you had learned at a younger age? 27:38 - How do you plan to speak up and share more? Grab some gear at realmenfeel.org/swag Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

At one point in my youth, I left a mental hospital against medical advice because I had tickets to see Motley Crue. I figured if I was alive, I was going to that show. There's a longer tale about how I got home and the reaction of family and friends, but the net result is that I was kicked out of my house. I was homeless. Thankfully, I had neighbors who gave me a couch for a few days while I figured shit out, so I never had to live on the streets, but I thought that might be what happened. Through college and beyond, friends and I sometimes slept in city parks or hotel stairwells while traveling because we were broke. But that had a sense of adventure and playfulness, nothing like actual homelessness.  I share this because I want to talk about homelessness, specifically Youth Homelessness. And I don't just want to talk about it. I'm going to do something about it and let you know how easily you can as well. In the United States, 4.2 million young people will face homelessness this year alone. Kids can end up on the streets because their home isn't safe or they are battling addiction, depression, or any mental health challenge. Living on the streets doesn't help any of it. Homelessness can lead to worse addictions, sex trafficking, and suicide. Covenant House, is a charitable organization that I've donated to for years. They empower young people to overcome homelessness by providing them safe housing, food and clothing, and relentless support.  No one is ever turned away without support of some kind. And their services and programs are available at no cost. https://www.covenanthouse.org Perhaps you are wondering. Why is he talking about Covenant House so much? Because, for the first time, I'm an active participant in their annual fundraiser, the Sleep Out. The Sleep Out happens on November 17 around the world. People give up their beds for one night to raise money to get more kids off the streets for good. Please consider donating to my Sleep Out at https://www.sleepout.org/participant/andygrant By searching for my name, you can also find me on the sleepout.org home page. I'm talking about this because a planned guest had to cancel at the last minute. Today is October 7, and moments ago, I discovered that October 10 is World Homeless Day, so this is very synchronistic. Sleep Out is our chance to shine a light on the youth homelessness crisis and raise critical funds that help Covenant House provide young people with around-the-clock support. The awareness and funds raised translate to things like new sheets, computers, meals, and best-in-class care for youth overcoming homelessness. visit https://www.sleepout.org Donate to me at https://www.sleepout.org/participant/andygrant By searching for my name, you can also find me on the sleepout.org home page. I need your help to smash through my 5K goal. Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | youtube.com/realmenfeel

Real Men Feel ep273 No Lucks Given | Mental Health In The Kitchen Today Real Men Feel ventures into the kitchen to talk with Chef Brother Luck. Brother is an award-winning chef, entrepreneur, and advocate for the pursuit of self-discovery. He is on a mission to prove to others that while our past is forever a part of who we are, it does not determine the people we become. Brother has appeared on Chopped, Beat Bobby Flay, and Top Chef. He also owns two restaurants, Four by Brother Luck, and Lucky Dumpling, located in his home, Colorado Springs. And he has just released his memoir, No Lucks Given. We discuss courage, vulnerability, mentorship, and the freedom of tears. TRIGGER WARNING: We also talk about suicide attempts and the death of Anthony Bordain. Sometimes the bravest thing a man can do is ask for help. Topics and Questions 1:05 - What first got you interested in cooking? 2:54 - Before chefs, was there anyone in your life who told you, "good job"? 3:25 - What told you that you were following the wrong people? 4:05 - Traditionally, women predominantly do cooking, yet most famous chefs are men. Where does that discrepancy comes from? 5:57 - Is it difficult to leap from chef to celebrity chef? 7:05 - Your memoir is titled, No Lucks Given; what does that mean? 8:51 - Was perseverance natural for you? 9:27 - What was your childhood like? 10:11 - Hitting his breaking point? 11:54 - Who is the worst judge of Brother Luck? 12:49 - Is a professional kitchen supportive of mental health? 15:39 - Do you still find time to enjoy cooking? 16:22 - If you're one thing. Be vulnerable. 18:23 - Do you come across 16-year-olds who remind you of yourself? 21:11 - How did Anthony Bourdain's death by suicide affect you? 23:30 - After your attempt, what was your next step? 25:20 - What worked well for you that you would recommend to others? 30:00 - Tell me about your advocacy work for mental health. 30:37 - What's the best way to learn more about you and everything you are up to? 31:13 - What is one thing you wish more men knew? Links Brother Luck -- https://chefbrotherluck.com/ No Lucks Given: Life's hard but there is hope - https://amzn.to/3LVXQxY Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

Real Men Feel reminds you that men are human beings and are entitled to feel and express the full range of emotions. I'm going to emphasize that more today, thanks to an email I received last week. "About 3-4 years ago, I came out as a trans man. I deal with a lot of imposter syndrome when it comes to my identity. Whenever I hear the name of your podcast, it makes me cringe a little because I don't see myself as a "real" man. It makes me feel like this is advice that isn't for me. ...does the advice you give count for trans men as well as cis men?" Nobody has asked me this question, but I have wondered. If you don't know, cis is short for cisgender, which means a person whose gender identity corresponds to their sex assigned at birth. For the first couple of years, I co-hosted Real Men Feel with Appio Hunter, a gay male friend. I thought that would cover more ground, but there was rarely different advice, issues, or topics for gay vs. straight men. I don't recall any episode specifically about trans men, but I have often said that if you consider yourself a man, anything you do is, by definition, manly. If you see yourself as a man, Real Men do whatever you do. I know guys with ED, others who have been paralyzed below the waist, and others who battled testicular cancer and had one of their balls removed. I don't consider any of them to be less than, or non-men, or people who can no longer listen to this podcast. I talk to so many men dealing with imposter syndrome that I'd say having it is more proof of your manliness, not less. It took me years to be comfortable with the title, even though I named the show. There are so many sayings, memes, etc. about Real Men this, Real Men that... ALL of them pissed me off. So the title is a play on that. But also, the "real" of Real Men Feel means genuine, authentic, and true to yourself. All of that is up to you. No committee, organization, or individual decides whether you are a man or not, except for you. So, is the advice I give only for cis men? From my perspective, no. I would suggest more critical than "is the advice meant for this group or that group," ask, "Do I resonate with this?" If you are a trans man and want to share a bit of your experience on Real Men Feel, I'd be honored to have you. Reach out to me at realmenfeel@gmail.com. Wherever you are discovering the Real Men Feel - I invite you to subscribe, follow, like, share, post a comment, and all that fun stuff. If you want to explore what life might be like for you with more authenticity and vulnerability, book a free Clarify Call with me - visit theandygrant.com/talk Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | youtube.com/realmenfeel

Real Men Feel exists to remind you that men are human beings entitled to feel and express the full range of emotions. I look forward to the day when a man can cry in public, and people notice and say to themselves, "Now, that's a man." Not sarcastically, not ironically, but because they recognize that publicly expressing emotions could be the bravest, most courageous thing a man can do. Recently I got an email and the title was The Laws for Manhood. I rolled my eyes and marked it to follow. Anytime someone makes a list of any rules, laws, or vows that all men must follow in order to be men... I want to puke. I had the time to go back and read that article earlier today. There are rules and laws that society teaches us that are meant to create a better community. Some rules are passed down from parents and schools intended to make us behave and be quiet. There are unconscious rules often tied to our gender and social roles; Those sorts of things we pick up as kids that our parents model in their actions or words.  Any unconscious rule can get you into trouble. Since it is unconscious, you don't realize you are abiding by it and don't realize where it came from to begin with.  The oldest rules I could think of our the 10 Commandments. I don't know anybody who's never broken some of those. Back to the original email, I got. It linked to an article called What Are Your 10 Laws of Manhood? That's a little better than the email - at least it's "your laws" not saying this is a must for all mankind. That all reminded me of some rules I do agree with. Friend and frequent guest of this show, Jed Diamond, wrote a book called 12 Rules of Good Men. Rule #1: Join a Men's Group. Rule #2: Break Free From the Man Box. Rule #3: Accept the Gift of Maleness. Rule #4: Embrace Your Billion Year Male History. Rule #5: Recognize Your Anger and Fear of Women. Rule #6: Learn the Secrets of Real, Lasting, Love. Rule #7: Undergo Meaningful Rites of Passage. Rule #8: Celebrate Your True Warrior Spirit and Learn Why Male Duel and Females Duet. Rule #9: Understand and Heal Your Adverse Childhood Experiences. Rule #10: Heal Your Father Wound and Become the Father You Were Meant to Be. Rule #11: Treat the Irritable Male Syndrome and Male-Type Depression. Rule #12: Find Your Mission in Life and Do Your Part to Save Humanity. I believe the best rules to live by are ones you've proven from your own experience. They can undoubtedly originate from someone else, but if any rule, law, guideline, or vow about being a man doesn't bring more joy to your life - I strongly suggest questioning it. If you have a rule to live by that you think works great, share it. Wherever you are listening to this, post a comment or email me at realmenfeel@gmail.com. Links See what other guys think https://www.quora.com/What-are-your-10-laws-of-manhood Jed Diamond's The 12 Rules for Good Men https://amzn.to/3BgofS4 Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | youtube.com/realmenfeel

Real Men Feel is about reminding men that they are human and entitled to feel and express the full range of emotions. Some of those emotions can you have feeling like absolute shit, but that never means that you are shit. If you've read any of my books, seen me speak live, listened to many Real Men Feel episodes, perhaps heard me as a guest on other shows, or even know me as an actual, physical, human being, you are aware that I don't hide the fact that I've tried to end my life multiple times. September 10 is World Suicide Prevention Day, and I don't make a big thing about this day because, frankly, it pisses me off. Every day should be suicide prevention day for all of us. But I get that plenty of people still experience a stigma around any discussions of mental health or suicide. And I have long believed that one of the best ways to prevent suicide is to talk about it. So I shall. Men account for three-quarters of deaths by suicide in many countries. While the pathway to suicide for each individual is unique, some common risk factors have been shown to contribute to the higher suicide rate among men. These risk factors include using more lethal means, reduced help-seeking, harmful substance use, social disconnection, conformity to some masculine norms, and stressful life events such as unemployment and relationship breakdown. The theme for World Suicide Prevention Day this year is "Creating hope through action." My talking to you right now is an action. You listening right now is an action. You checking with a dear friend and asking how they are? is an action. Working with a therapist, a coach, or a men's group is a positive action you might take. By the way, those are all things I've been doing this summer. I invite you to show support for those struggling with suicidal attempts or ideation and to remember loved ones who died of suicide. Links Check out the ManKind Project - https://mankindproject.org/ Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

This episode could be titled Real Men Fear. Today's guest is Dr. Avrum Weiss, a psychotherapist, an award-winning author, and teacher. His decade-long work on understanding men's internal lives culminated with his recently published bestseller "Hidden in Plain Sight: How Men's Fears of Women Shape Their Intimate Relationships." Avrum is a regular contributor to the Psychology Today website and offers workshops nationally about psychotherapy with men and helping men and women understand each other. He practices psychotherapy online from his home on an island in Midcoast Maine, specializing in psychotherapy groups for men and psychotherapy consultation. We discuss the hierarchy of fears men have of women, the repercussions of those fears, and what men can do about them. Listen in to learn about men's unacknowledged dependencies on their partners and the underlying issue of gender role conflict. Did you know loneliness is as significant a health risk for men as smoking? Let's do something about that. Topics and Questions 1:21 Starting with the premise that men are human. 1:50 Is there a particular fear that men have of women, or are there lots of them? 3:49 Have men long been afraid of women, or is this a modern age problem? 4:55 Fear of conflict with women 5:38 Are men fearful of being controlled and of conflict from anyone, or is something different regarding women? 7:00 Are you afraid of women? 10:27 Does saying men are fearful of anything make you anti-man? 12:17 What do you say to a bitter man who says all women are narcissists who use men and throw them away? 15:24 What are some repercussions of men afraid of women? 16:48 Can men change or overcome these fears? 22:41 - what women are taught about men by their moms 23:49 Who was "Hidden in Plain Sight: How Men's Fears of Women Shape Their Intimate Relationships" written for? 25:36 What did your dad teach you about women? 29:26 Growing up and growing old. 31:17 What is the best way for people to learn more about your work? 33:21 Is there one thing you wish more men knew? Links Avrum Weiss PhD -- https://www.avrumweissphd.com/ Hidden in Plain Sight: How Men's Fears of Women Shape Their Intimate Relationships -- On Amazon Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

Real Men Feel #268 Not Allowed to Die | Paws For Patrick My guest, Dan Maigler, shares his journey from politics to lobbying, to counseling, always knowing he wanted to help people. The kids that Dan works with reminded me of myself a lot. Some of the things they express resonated deeply with me. Fair Warning: This is an open conversation on suicidal thoughts and attempts. If you are in crisis, call or chat 988 right now. Dan is the mental health director for Paws for Patrick, a non-profit organization that connects young people with mental health issues to emotional support animals. He is also a school social worker, a therapist in private practice, and the host of the podcast Not Allowed to Die, where he explores the dilemmas he sees clients facing in his work. We discuss topics such as contracting for safety, assessing the risk of depressed clients, and being manipulative to keep people alive. Our conversation also touches on the difference between wanting to die and wanting the pain to stop. Paws For Patrick matters because no therapist can be there at 3 in the morning, but your dog or cat can be. Topics and Questions 1:18 What age range of kids do you work with as a school social worker? 1:59 What got you interested in mental health work? 3:11 Did you meet politicians out to help people, but they got jaded? 4:23 You have a podcast called, Not Allowed to Die, which is one of my all-time favorite titles -- tell me the significance of that name. 6:28 Have you had kids that couldn't make that commitment? That they aren't allowed to die? 8:16 So glad kids today can openly discuss suicidal thoughts. 9:55 Do you ever talk to teens on Not Allowed to Die? 10:31 What prompted you to start the podcast? 12:13 Do you worry about your family's mental health history impacting your two sons? 15:50 What is contracting for safety? 18:06 Andy's experiences with promising to live. 19:30 Why Dan wants you to stay alive. 21:09 Parasuicide attempts. An attempt that would not be lethal. 23:11 The diminishing of people's feelings, especially men. 27:15 What does life promise us? 28:24 What is Paws for Patrick? 31:27 Dan, what's the best way to find out more about you, Not Allowed to Die and Paws for Patrick? 32:40 Is there one thing you wish more men knew? Links Paws for Patrick -- pawsforpatrick.org Not Allowed to Die Podcast -- On Apple Podcasts Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel

Real Men Feel #267 8/19/22 Receiving Praise | Being Worthy Men One of the goals of this podcast, my books, and my coaching... is to be inspiring. But whenever someone tells me I'm inspiring, I'll try to deflect it. Some of that is humility, but at times I can also notice strong resistance, an outright rejection of the praise. I might even want to argue about it. -- which is ridiculous. This sort of experience showed up big time in my first guest appearance in about a year when I was on the In The Blood Podcast with AC Fischer and Jason Moore recently. In the actual show, AC surprised me by saying that I was "a personal inspiration" to him. He went on to say, "Thank you so much for showing that it's okay for us to have emotions, that it doesn't detract from our masculinity, telling us that it's okay to cry, it's okay to experience the full realm of emotions. It's just okay to be us. I don't know if you really grasp how big of a thing it is that you're doing for your fellow man, Andy. I need you to know right now that you are one of my personal heroes, and I am so thrilled to have you with us today." I'm not trying to toot my own horn here. This isn't a "look at me!" show! Real Men Feel is about having conversations most men aren't having but that we can all benefit from. Even if it's me talking to you without being with you. If we can't fully accept our worthiness as men... if we can't own our "maleness," to quote Jed Diamond - receiving any praise is very uncomfortable. It makes us feel like a fraud or that we have imposter syndrome. You have value and worth simply in being. So be you. You're the best you the world could possibly have. Let's Talk - visit theandygrant.com/talk Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast: Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @andy_grant Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info! Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related! YouTube | Real Men Feel