Songwriters on Process

Genesis Owusu is the first songwriter to cite Samuel Beckett’s "Waiting for Godot" and Franz Kafka's "The Metamorphosis" as influences. Owusu stops by the podcast to talk about why he's such a huge fan of Beckett and Kafka, what it means to be a "selfish" songwriter, and why he never trusts lyrics that take too long to write.I saw Owusu this summer when he opened for Paramore. What a live show. And his music blows me away; I'm a huge fan. Owusu’s latest album Struggler is out now. 

"If you're writing alone, you're still collaborating," Devendra Banhart says on this episode of the podcast. I love that idea: even in solitary writing, you're always running ideas by yourself. Is it the unconscious against the conscious? Reminds me of the time Matt Nathanson told me that he calls his writing partner "The Assassin."What you can't see in the podcast is that behind Banhart was an entire wall of floor to ceiling books as we talked.  You can't be a good (song)writer unless you read. No exceptions. And I loved our discussion of why poetry is so important. Banhart's latest album Flying Wig is out September 22. 

“Surprising yourself is the only way to stay inspired,” M.C. Taylor of Hiss Golden Messenger says in this episode of the podcast. This is the second time I've interviewed Taylor, and here are three things I love about him: He's still the only songwriter in thirteen years of this site to discuss his love for haiku and how it influences his process.  The thoughtful pause before he responds makes for some incredible answers. Everyone in the Taylor family--MC, wife, and kids--starts their day reading and ends their day reading (not collectively).HGM's latest album Jump for Joy is out now on Merge Records.

Sabrina Teitelbaum (aka Blondshell) wants more joy in her songs. But that can be a problem because happiness is not a productive state for her songwriting process.  "When I'm happy, I don't feel the need to write as much," she told me. No matter her emotional state, though, the key Teitelbaum's fruitful songwriting process is not making it look too much like a process. The more precious she makes the process, the harder it can be to write. "Normalizing it makes me more productive," she says. For example, Teitelbaum often finds herself inspired at inopportune times, like when she's rushing to get somewhere. Yet some awareness of what works is important too, which is why I love the perfect balance in her credo: "Know your process but respect the mystery."Blondshell's self-titled debut album is out now on Partisan Records.  It's really, really good. 

At some point in my interview with Jerry Harrison, guitarist and keyboardist for Talking Heads, I asked him to respond to a quote by the iconic Beat poet Allen Ginsberg. Harrison told me that Ginsberg was a friend. And that is why he is Jerry Harrison. Talking Heads are one of the most influential acts of the past 50 years. Call it new wave, art pop, post punk, whatever: any act with that label can at least partially thank Talking Heads. This conversation centers not just on the writing process--Harrison loves felt tip pens because of the "scraping feeling," by the way--but on literature. We talked extensively about prose and poetry, which should tell you something. Great musical artists are voracious readers.  As for the writing ritual, Harrison said, "The rituals are a way for our minds to accept that we're writing. They create signals of positive reinforcement as a way of saying, 'There are no excuses since I'm in my writing space.'"Talking Heads' Stop Making Sense  is considered one of the greatest concert films, and in September it's being re-released in 4k. The band will reunite for the first time in 21 years for a Q&A with Spike Lee at the Toronto International Film Festival on September 11.ED NOTE: yes, it's "Talking Heads," not "The Talking Heads."

Jenny Owen Youngs had me at "Shitty First Drafts." This is the Anne Lamott essay espousing the idea that the first draft of anything is supposed to be atrocious. Just get it down, dammit. "Almost all good writing begins with terrible first efforts," Lamott writes. The polish comes later. I always assigned this essay to my students when I was a professor. The challenge comes when you're a parent, as Youngs is. (We have four kids,  so I know the feeling.) How do you even find the time to create multiple drafts and feel like you're not wasting your time by intentionally writing a terrible one? As you'll hear, the shitty first draft method is not only a more efficient process, but when your time is no longer your own, you become a much more efficient writer. So a win all around. Youngs's new album Avalanche is fantastic and is out September 22 on Yep Roc Records. 

ED note: I mispronounced Cosentino’s name in the podcast intro: the first “o” should be long (as in snow), but I used a short “o” (as in top). I’m sorry Bethany!If you have plans to meet Bethany Cosentino and she’s late, look outside. There’s a good chance she’s there writing. Cosentino loves to write in her car—when it’s not moving, of course. She gets great ideas just sitting in it.  “I’ll be late to things because I’ve been sitting in my car for too long. I’ll get there early or on time and then just sit there,” she told me on this episode of the podcast.This is my third time interviewing Cosentino (the others were 2010 and 2015). Each has been so enjoyable because her answers were always different and always so expansive. There’s a reason for that: each album embraces a different process.  Cosentino wrote one in front of a TV on mute and another in front of a big window. She wrote a good chunk of her debut solo album Natural Disaster on the floor.

John McCauley and Ian O’Neil of Deer Tick stop by talk about what makes for an effective songwriting process. In no particular order: laundry rooms, a kitchen, a nice rug, running shoes, recumbent bikes, Raymond Carver, and turn signals. Deer Tick’s latest album is Emotional Contracts, out now on ATO Records.

Academy Award nominee Emile Mosseri stops by the podcast to talk about the challenges that come with writing a solo album when all you’ve known is collaboration (his time in The Dig) and film & television composing (like his film score for Minari , for which he received a 2021 Academy Award nomination for Best Original Score). We talk about why he likes to write when he’s not supposed to be writing, why having a child is often good for his process, and why social media is never good  for it. Mosseri’s debut solo album Heaven Hunters is out now on Greedy Heart Records.

Josh Ritter stops by Songwriters on Process to declare that while we like to think he writes with a quill pen, he actually writes almost all of his lyrics on his phone. That's a first: many songwriters tell me they write on a computer, but Ritter eschews even that because he prefers the spontaneity that his phone provides.Ritter's latest album is Spectral Lines, out now.