Songwriters on Process

"All the time in the world is too much pressure."Shana Cleveland of La Luz prefers a good deadline when she writes songs. And with a toddler in the house, her day is nothing but deadlines, which are also known as When Your Child Wakes From Their Nap. If you're an artist like Cleveland, the best time to write is nap time. (We have four kids, so I know the feeling.) She discovered her knack for writing in those precious moments once she became a parent. "I can write just as many songs now in a much shorter period," Cleveland told me. And when she writes, she likes to sit outside in an office chair.Cleveland's new solo album is called Manzanita, out March 10 on Hardly Art Records. It is amazing. Really. And I'm a big fan of La Luz, so this was a lot of fun. 

I first interviewed Sara Watkins of Nickel Creek in 2013, and this latest conversation reminded me why she is one one of my favorite interviews. The thoughtfulness and introspection she brings to this discussion are wonderful.No matter the art you create, this episode is for you. We didn't focus on the practical aspects of the songwriting process nearly as much as we talked about Creativity (with a capital C): why we create and what it does to us when we do. Where does the urge come from? When is the drive the strongest? For Watkins, the ideal place to write from is curiosity. "The end goal is not to write songs. The end goal is to figure out my stuff, how to be me, how to work through stuff," she told me. Nickel Creek's first album in nine years, Celebrants, comes out March 24. 

Philip Selway, Radiohead's drummer, says that his best writing happens when "I'm looking the other way. My songs come along when they choose." But while Selway may prefer to wait for the muse, there are a few things he does to stimulate the songwriting process:Selway likes to write on his drum stool, not a traditional chair. "It grounds me in my wider life," he told me.Selway draws a mind map using a blue pen, a black pen, and a pencil. His lyrics are spread all over the paper with little sense of order. He likes pens and pencils because, he says, "I feel more connected to what's going down on the paper." When the ideas start running dry, Selway switches to one of the other utensils.He finds dance a boon to his creative process. Watching, not doing, that is. "I get profoundly affected by watching interpretive dance," Selways says.Philip Selway's latest solo album Strange Dance (Bella Union) is out February 24.

I love The Beths! So talking to Liz Stokes was a blast. The band's new album Expert in a Dying Field was on almost every 2022 year-end  "best of" list. Listen to Stokes talk about the importance of journaling to her songwriting process, why distance is so important for revision, and the best headspace to write in.  Of course, we talk about why walking around outside is so important to Stokes's process. Again: I love The Beths! 

On this week's episode, I talk to all three members of The Lone Bellow! Zach Williams,  Kanene Pipkin, and Brian Elmquist go deep into their songwriting processes and even learn a few things about each other that they didn't know before! In this episode, we discuss the impact that leaf blowing, linguistics, and literature have on their songwriting process. 

Aly and AJ Michalka have been writing and recording songs together since they were teenagers. It’s  easy to see why: their processes are remarkably in sync.  Listen to the sisters talk about this smooth creative relationship, as well as the important role that both reading and exercise play in their songwriting processes. Book recommendations included in this episode! 

"I'm so much more prolific when I exercise."Tim Burgess of The Charlatans admitted to me during episode 55 of the podcast that "rock stars aren't supposed to exercise, but we all have our secrets, don't we?" Well, the cat's out of the bag. Burgess loves to exercise, and it's an important part of his songwriting process. Many of his song ideas come to him at the gym as he's listening to music and watching whatever is playing on the television there. But physical activity as way to stimulate creativity underscores a bigger theme in his process: "When I'm preoccupied, that's when the ideas come," he told me. His best ideas happen when he's not thinking about writing songs.In this episode, you'll also learn why Burgess needs a white room when he writes (no, it has nothing to do with Cream) and what  Van Gogh painting he saw more than 20 years ago inspired him to write a song that, to this day, he still hasn't been able to finish. 

"When I sit down to write, the house has to be clean. Also, the dogs have to be walked because they need to fuck off and leave me alone," Kathleen Edwards told me. Now in podcast form, my 2020 joint interview with Edwards and Dave Hause! Listen now!

S.G. Goodman was raised a farmer's daughter and studied philosophy in college. This means that not only does she love to ponder, she has time do it during those long days in the field. The product of all the pondering: amazing lyrics.It's not a surprise, then, that Goodman doesn't like to write on tour and doesn't like to be inside at all when she writes. In fact, when she's on tour, she can't wait to get back home, where she can be outside and work with her hands. "Whenever I can, I try to get outside and do some kind of manual labor. That's when I'm the most creative," Goodman told me. In this interview, Goodman also talks about the effect that her diagnosed obsessive-compulsive disorder has on her editing process. It used to mean that finishing songs was almost impossible because she always went back and tweaked over and over. Then one day a friend asked her a simple question: "Have you said everything you want to say?" And that's the litmus test she asks herself at the end of her songwriting process. S.G. Goodman's latest album is called Teeth Marks.

Julian Lage has been hailed as one of the "most prodigious guitarists of his generation," so this was a new one for me: an interview with a songwriter who doesn't write lyrics, only instrumentals. As someone steeped in improvisation, Lage isn't one for specific rituals. And that's why I loved this conversation: it's a deep dive into the abstract elements of creativity as we try to figure out where it all comes from. Lage is on the faculty at The New School, so we talked teaching philosophy too. (I'm a former academic.)Lage's latest album is called A View With a Room, out now on Blue Note Records.