Based Camp | Simone & Malcolm Collins

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In this episode, Malcolm and Simone dive deep into the current state of France, exploring its pension crisis, demographic challenges, immigration policies, and political turmoil. They compare France’s situation to other European countries, discuss the impact of government benefits, and debate the effectiveness of recent reforms. The conversation also touches on cultural differences, personal experiences in France, and broader themes of government dysfunction and societal change. Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. Today we are gonna be talking about just. How cooked France is, just for some statistics that people might be surprised about is in France, your average pensioner makes more money in terms of like cost of living, adjusted money than your average worker in the country. In. In France, 57, sorry, 57% of people are net beneficiaries of the government.43% pay into the government. Oh no. France is already past the point. And I said this is a point where democracies begin to break down where the average citizen is being paid by the government to exist. And we’re going to look at where this has led to downstream collapse, in just a second here.Also very fun. What I love about diving into France and we’ve had episodes diving into the UK and diving into Germany, and now we’re diving into France, is each country is completely cooked in like its own way. It’s almost like Europe got to be like [00:01:00] the captain planet of evil and country vices. And you know, the UK is like.I’ll arrest people for memes. You know, like there was the guy who was arrested in Scotland for literally painting Islam can be questioned on his wall. And they, the police were like, no, it cannot the girl who, who well, we’re not gonna go into that. All of that. You can, you can go to our video where we point out that the only reason a country would ban the flying of its own flag is if it was under occupation.There’s no other reason to ban the flying of your own country’s flag, because presumably you do that in support of your government, right? If the government sees that as an attack on them, and this usually happens under occupation, like France under occupation, you ban it. So the UK has got its draconian speech laws and, and, and all of that.Then in Germany you have like a secret police force of like brown shorts that literally label mainstream political parties as terrorist organizations and monitor in harass mainstream like people [00:02:00] who are to the left of like the United States president or us, for example, as being. Political. Mind you, this is a political party, the a FD that is run by a lesbian in an interracial relationship.So yeah, not exactly that extreme, right? Then we get to France, right? And what is their nature of terribleness? They’re actually pretty good about not arresting people for stupid things. And they’re actually pretty good about not like spying on the quote unquote far right party, which we’ll go into like lap pen’s party or bullying them.But they have the curse of the French, which means, oh no. The problem with France is that it’s full of French people. And French people have completely unrealistic expectations around what to expect and. They are treating. Like if, if you, if you watch, and what we’ll go into a bit is this recent OD of you know, Francis current Prime Minister Macron [00:03:00] constantly trying to get the retirement age raged from 62 to 64.Now 64 would be a very young retirement age, globally speaking. And yeah. What,Simone Collins: let’s see, was it, is it in the USA,It is 67 for social security.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, so the point being is he wants to raise it a a moderate amount, and we’ll go into the data here, but like anyone could tell you that the system’s gonna be insolvent in just like a decade and a half if they don’t raise it. And literally this is what keeps breaking the government.And when I say break, I mean literally they’ve been through like four sitting whatevers like head of the governments in like the past few years because they, they pee everything to like step down the ministersSimone Collins: right.Malcolm Collins: You know, whatever, because France isSimone Collins: a president and a Prime minister and it’s, they’re, they’re churning through Prime Ministers this point.Yeah. We’ll, we’llMalcolm Collins: get to it. Yeah. And, and the core reason is, and the core reason that everything about Macrons blew up, even though he tried to side with the lefties, is just over this retirement age thing. And what makes this so funny to me. [00:04:00] Is the system won’t even exist in like a decade and a half if they don’t make this change.Right. And this change will, I feel like even ifSimone Collins: they do two years doesn’t seem this yearly enough. Yeah. What change EstimatedMalcolm Collins: to increase its lifespan by one decade. Maybe if they do it immediately. And so they’re not even like arguing for like this being a permanent thing. They’re arguing for a thing they would hypothetically want if money grew on trees.But like you go to the French people and you’re like. Here is the data. Money doesn’t grow on trees. And they’re like, ah, whatever. So let’s get into this. So right now in, in, in France retirees per workers, so we’re not even talking about dependences, remember I talking about they’re already past the dependency ratio with 57% of the population taking its money from the state, not giving to the state.Yeah.For 43% of French is already retirees. Gosh, that’s gonna be 55% by 2070. And keep in [00:05:00] mind their birth rate fell 20% in the past 10 years.Simone Collins: So yeah, this is only gonna get worse. Are there many developed countries that have that proportion of old people or is this is France? Yeah. France is actuallyMalcolm Collins: one of the best countries in Europe for demographics.Oh. They have one of the highest. Fertility rates and all of fertility rates. Yeah.Simone Collins: But still proportion of old people. I mean, like I, I thought most countries hadn’t gotten to that point of being. Most countries don’t that dependency ratio don’tMalcolm Collins: have, most countries don’t have a retirement age at 62.Simone Collins: Yeah, that is really young.Okay,Malcolm Collins: so France actually has, like, if you’re talking like fertility rate flies, France is great. And if you wanna know why France is great despite being a Catholic country, ‘cause that’s unusual for Catholic countries, is it actually secularized way earlier than other countries in Europe? And as we have pointed out collapsing fertility rates is largely about the urban monocultural belief system.And the longer you have been exposed to that, the more resistance you’ve been able to culturally and perhaps even [00:06:00] genetically evolve to its lures. And France has about a hundred years on most other European countries because they underwent their first fertility collapse about a hundred years before, for example, the UK did.Which is why France, I would argue, has such robust fertility numbers. In its native population. But it, but it doesn’t matter because they’re completely unreasonable. I, I should note here, by the way, and people can ask you know, if I’m speaking derisively about French, people know, like, one of the jokes on the show is like, I don’t like really like French people very much.Like the country very much. You know, I, I make jokes on that and people are like, why? Why, why do you feel this way? Have you been to France, Simone? Been?Yes. Yeah.Yeah. I’ve been there multiple times too. And I have never been to anywhere on Earth, and I’m not even talking about by like a, a margin, like nowhere comes close to being treated with.As much rudeness and derision as I was treated for no reason. [00:07:00] And, and people can be like, well, it’s a cultural difference. And I’m like, fine then I don’t like that culture. Right. Like, and people in Europe, they talk about this. Like I know French people when they come to the US and they’re like, everyone is so nice.In inauthentic. And I’m like, no, that’s not inauthentic. You don’t have to like, like somebody to treat them with basic human dignity, right? Like, you, you don’t need to, like if you’re, if you’re doing your job and they’re not like actively resisting you, right? It doesn’t cost you anything to smile and try to make the day of like a random other person who you don’t know anything about, marginally better.And did you, did you have this experience in France as well, or is this unique to me?Simone Collins: I can’t say I interacted a lot with people because I generally avoid people whether I’m traveling or not. Yeah. So I guess I don’t really care. And if they leave me alone, I’m pretty happy about it.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Also it was a constant, I, I mean, this is not unique to France.It also happened when I’m traveling in Italy. But the constant harassment of young women walking around is also [00:08:00] really gets to me. But again, this is just where I’m culturally different, right. And, and people can be like, well, you know, different cultures be different. Right. And, and that’s true around the world.And I’m just like, from my cultural perspective, I think that you should, you know, give other people that you meet randomly the benefit of the doubt and be nice to them. And people will be like, well, that’s just Paris or whatever, right? And it’s like, okay, great. Maybe it is just Paris, but like we go to Manhattan all the time and people in Manhattan are perfectly nice to strangers.Like, and, and Manhattan? No, no. Well, Manhattan’s known as being one of the less nice places in the United States and it’s still fairly nice. The only city I go to in the US where I like regularly see people be mean to people out of nowhere is San Francisco, but that’s mostly because they’re on like drugs or clearly mentally ill.And that’s more just like random a, a attack, homeless, I’ll call them. Attack the, the attack homeless that San Francisco has, has cultivated and pushed into. Its its most dense tourist zones. But anyway. So to continue here [00:09:00] deficits are already emerging post 2023 reform, COR estimates 1.7 billion deficit by 2025, potentially rising to 6.6 billion by 2030.Even with the retirement age hike pension spending holds at around 13.7% of GDP until 2030. But could climb of of gross slows September, 2025 Financial Times reports based on Luxembourg income study data highlighted that retirees over 65 now have a higher standard of living and disposable income relative to working age adults.However, this isn’t because raw pensions exceed full-time salary. So let’s talk over a bit how this works.Simone Collins: Yeah, I’m curious.Malcolm Collins: So, they have a median standard of living when, when you cost adjust of 2,310 euros a month per household versus for workers 2,100 and and 10. So this is slightly higher.Wait, 2010Simone Collins: versus 2010. Did, did you get those numbers right? They’re the sameMalcolm Collins: 2,300 versus 2,100. [00:10:00]Simone Collins: Oh, okay. So basically a 200 Euro difference.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But the, the reason for this is they have fewer, fewer dependents. They have lower taxes because people on Yeah, that makes sense. Have lower taxes.Yeah. And they often have supplementary income from like assets they’ve built up over their house, like houses or whatever. But still that’s, that’s absolutely wild. That is. In, in terms of like what France is paying on immigrants. France actually has a significantly better immigrant situation than most of Europe.I think despite most people’s perception I think it’s, so maybe they justSimone Collins: concentrate in Paris. ‘cause I see a ton of YouTube videos on just yeah. Paris being completely different now than it was five or 10 years ago.Malcolm Collins: Well, Trump even said this, right? He got in trouble for saying it, but he goes, oh, Paris is like a, a dirt place to live now.Nobody wants to be there anymore. Oh, no. And this is a, a situation we’re having all around the world. I’ll note like Manhattan, for example, is a garbage city today compared to 15 years ago.Simone Collins: It is not the sameMalcolm Collins: even [00:11:00] five, six years ago. It’s not the same. And it’s just empty and, and, and boarded up.And and you see this, it’s, again, it’s not just France. There’s many places in, in the UK you can go through where, you know, it is, it’s clear that you are not welcome there based on your ethnicity. And it’s, it’s a very uncomfortable thing, especially if those, those neighborhoods were important to you growing up, or, or, you know, you saw they were important to you at some point.In, in your life. But the funny thing is, is like. All of my best French friends, because I actually have like a collection of like French friends I’m pretty tight with. Are immigrants African, you mean theySimone Collins: are immigrants to France?Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they’re, they’re African immigrants to France. Like when I go to France, I stayed at, at their house.And this is, you know, all, all black family, all you know, white, black community. And that’s where I was hanging out and they were all. Way nicer to me than any of the French people I’ve met. So, so like this is my thing where I might have a bit more ambivalence than [00:12:00] than other countries to, to what is happening in, in France right now.But France actually doesn’t have as bad of an immigrant situation as either in terms of how they influence policies as you see it in the uk or in terms to just their sheer percentage of the population as you have in Germany.Hmm.But their immigrant situation is bad in another way, which is that immigrants in France are a net tax drain.Unlike a lot of other countries, like in the United States the immigrants are generally argued to be a net tax benefit. Yeah. But in France so this is from Le Figaro. Nicholas Pvo Monte concludes that immigration represents a GDP loss in France of 3.4% per year. Keep in mind, they’re only spending 13 like 0.4% on retirees. Wow. So if, if you, if you what is it? If immigrants had the same employment rate as natives, the national wealth generated each year would be 3.4% higher, and tax revenues would be 1.5 percentage points higher as well.[00:13:00]He says, quote, this loss in gross in this cost to the taxpayer, contribute to high tax burdens on businesses, which in term hampers the entire economy. In other words, encouraging immigration to fill shortages in the few strain sectors amounts to sacrificing gross in all of our sectors. So. France again, even though it’s got like the fertility rate problem, it’s very bad at setting up a system that selects for productive immigrant populations.And if they could you know, then immigrant, and this is the thing like immigrants, like, it’s not a like falling fertility rates and falling demographics is not a warm body problem. It’s a taxpayer problem. If you are taking people into your country who are. Tax drains that’s going to hurt your country.Yeah, and, andSimone Collins: again, people, they like to frame that as. Oh, these ISTs want certain types of people to reproduce. That is such a terrible misrepresentation when what we’re talking about is the ability to maintain social services for society’s most vulnerable [00:14:00] people. When you are bringing in non net tax paying immigrants or any citizen that is not a net taxpayer, you are actively throwing the vulnerable people already in that country.Under the bus you’re saying. I don’t care about them anymore. Let’s accelerate their minds. Yeah. WelfareMalcolm Collins: explodes, who cares? You know this is. Mm-hmm. And I, I will note my wider stance on immigration, and I think it’s something. So, so I have a few points here. I think immigration in Europe is very different than immigration in the United States.The United States is dealing with a majority Latin American immigrant population which is culturally not that dissimilar from the native population. In fact, every single one of the vices. That people associate with the Latin American immigrant wave that the United States is dealing with right now are vices that we complained about in equal amounts during past Catholic majority immigrant waves.When the Irish came, you had the Irish mob, you had all the, the terrible crime waves and everything like that. When the Italians came you had the Italian Mafia. You know, this is, this is just a. [00:15:00] Catholic immigrant wave thing. We have different episodes on why you see organized crime in Catholic populations more.It, it was specifically Catholic immigrant populations more because it’s, it’s not unique to Catholic. You also see it in Eastern Orthodox communities which you have the Russian mob as well where you don’t see them importing their, their criminal organizations very effectively if they’re from other cultural groups, like for example, like, like the, the Japanese and Chinese have big organized crime waves within their country, but they didn’t import them in an, the, the, the degree to which, like MS 16 or the mafia or the mob. Yeah. I’ve not heard of the,Simone Collins: about being,Malcolm Collins: In the United States. Yeah. So, so the, the, the, the whiter point I was I was making here is that the United States can more easily adapt and integrate its integrate.Population. I mean, as, as we saw, over 50% of Hispanic males voted for Trump, right? Like they’re adapting pretty quickly. But. And I think that we have less of a moral argument against immigration than other countries. Given that, you know, we all did come here at [00:16:00] some point, right? To a country that was dissimilar from US cultural history, like it is a, a nation of immigrant.I do love though,Simone Collins: you kind of get the tone that I mean theming with France and their immigrants and apparently them bringing in net drains and the statue of Liberty’s slogan of like, bring me you’re tired, you’re, yeah. All masses. In China, or sorry, France giving us that statue and being like, send the trash over.It’s in the trash every here. Yeah, yeah. Go, go to America, guys. But then they, they, they keep bringing in their own Right. But it’s such a passive aggressive thing. I don’t know. I find very strange.Malcolm Collins: I, I think that they have less of a, you know, it’s literally like their native. Land and country, right? Like if, if a group wants to say, I’m uncomfortable with letting unchecked immigration into my native lands th that I think should be treated very differently.And the United States.Simone Collins: But yeah, literally you have indigenous peoples in. France,Malcolm Collins: the French are theSimone Collins: indigenous people.Malcolm Collins: The indigenous [00:17:00] people. Yeah. And, and I’d point out in America, like the waves of immigrants weren’t awesome for the indigenous population. No, they weren’t.Simone Collins: Yeah.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Not, not a, a lot we can do to reverse the situation right now.But the, the point I’m making. And, and you could be like, well, you could give reparations. And it’s like, actually, that would only make things worse. In the indigenous communities in the US where they do have really high amounts that come from like casinos and stuff like this, and we’ll do a separate episode on this.You have like really high rates of like drug addiction and, and lack of education and poverty. Just in part because of this, look at any of our episodes on UBI like giving out reparations. Seriously. Disadvantages of populations that receive the reparations intergenerationally. That’s a whole other thing.Mm-hmm. The point being is, is I will say that France does though, and they’ll say like, well, we take immigrants because they’re from countries that we previously colonized often. Right. Like, and maybe I understand like the logic there, but to me it’s not like that’s, they still have the right to say, I want toSimone Collins: sort of, I [00:18:00] don’t know.‘Cause doesn’t, isn’t it the case that with, e English colonialism. The countries did really well. French colonialism. They didn’t, so France could? No, no. The FrenchMalcolm Collins: were garbage colonialists. That’s another I know. They kindSimone Collins: of owe them, they kind of owe them if theyMalcolm Collins: screwed up their countries. Yeah.Like the, the, the British really don’t have that much to be embarrassed about colonialism. Why? OhSimone Collins: yeah. They, they can be like, no man, like. You’re welcome. We, we made you better off the French,Malcolm Collins: The, the yeah, and, and, and people can be like, oh, well what about these atrocities? And it’s like, even if you account for the atrocities, the England spent like half a century paying for a giant fleet just to stop other countries from doing slavery, right?Like. Nobody had done that sort of international moral policing at that point. That was like a completely new idea. Like let’s take a portion of our national budget and just police everyone else’s slaving roots, right? Like Britain really has nothing to be embarrassed about in regards to that stuff. But anyway, I should continue here.So. [00:19:00] Recent analysis, including adaptations of fiscal space concepts, indicate that without further reforms, the system’s funding from labor taxes could hit limits where sustainable taxation can’t cover expenses. We’re talking here about the social security system pre 2023 based selling projection suggested exhaustion by 2030.So, so their pension. System in France exhausts in five years. Five years, okay. Mm-hmm. They’ve got five years,Simone Collins: which, and that’s so interesting to me because when, for example, it was proposed that retirement age would be raised forefront among the protestors were young people, people who were like, no,Malcolm Collins: you got this wrong.I really, I looked this up. Yeah. So the, the yellow shirt riots were yellow vest riot. We’re not about this issue specifically, I’mSimone Collins: referring to more recent protests,Malcolm Collins: the ones that, well, the reason why that they’ve been able to get the protestors out there, even the young ones who no way by the math are [00:20:00] going to see these patients.That’s why I find it so strange is that the young people are being manipulated by the unions. Which have a lot of members who are pensioners, so basically French has like really strong, we’re kinda being liedSimone Collins: to. Like, they may not even be aware of the fact that they’re being explicitly liedMalcolm Collins: to. So I, I was actually looking at this and they went through and they would like ask the protesters why they were protesting.And it was things like, well, why should I have to work when the environments burning and stuff like typical leftist slop it, it, it really, they don’t understand why they’re protesting. They just hate Macron and they hate. Quote unquote business where Macron isn’t even like pro business. He’s pro like basic rationality.And I don’t even think he’s a good guy. He’s not like my guy, like I’m a Lapin guy, right? Like, but CRA’s things that he’s fighting for are like basic things to keep the pension system working for 15 years rather than five years. Right? Like, this is, this is basic stuff, right? Like what are other things that he’s fought for that are like really.You know, just absolute [00:21:00] ns you people are arguing for like, I want an infinite money tree. Well, I’m sorry we don’t have an infinite money tree. Well then I’m gonna burn down your car and city and murder people in the streets maybe don’t do that, right? Like, anyway. So, at the, at that stage we’re talking the 2040 stage pension deficits could escalate significantly.Current pension deficits are mod 1.7 billion euros in 2025. But they could rise by 2020. 30 to 6.6 billion. Contributing to overall, and keep in mind a debt that is always increasing is not a debt that is serviceable and will eventually be called on. Right. And there really isn’t much you can do about this.The other thing that he wanted to do that everybody complained about, where they go, it’s big business and really it’s just practical, is the insane tax, like wealth taxes that they tried to do in France.Mmmm. That would’ve basically kept people from investing. And was thisSimone Collins: [00:22:00] recent, because the last time I remember reading about France and taxes was that France was just slurping up all of the Yeah, because mostly British people, when the UK raised taxes,Malcolm Collins: Macron’s reforms.Oh. And everybody freaked out about that, when really he was significantly helping the French people. They were just too spoiled to see it. Mm-hmm. So, by the way, the, for, for the first time in 2024, deaths out outpace bursts in France. So they’ve already hit like the beginning of the plateau. And now it’s, we down all the, they, they’ve been like tick going up the rollercoaster before they hit back down.So, what was I gonna say here? Oh, yeah, I was gonna talk about the unemployment gap among immigrants in France. Oh. Non-EU foreigners face 19.5% unemployment versus 8% for natives in France.Simone Collins: Oh, yikes.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Poverty rates are 34% in immigrant populations compared to 14% within the native population.Simone Collins: So is this due to some form of. Employment discrimination whereby it’s really hard to get a job as an immigrant. [00:23:00] Hmm. Because that, that is the case in many countries.Malcolm Collins: I don’t think so. So I’ve pointed this out a lot, and this is like a mantra that everyone needs to like, like globally, we need to grok this.And I love it came from my grandfather who was a congressman actually. And I only read it because somebody read it back to me was a slur that he had used while, while explaining it. And I was like, wow, granddad, I had never considered that. Thank you for this gift of knowledge from a different age. But he said.Famously that you, you cannot have generous social welfare systems and porous borders. He said you have to choose one of the two. Because if you have generous wealth, social welfare systems and porous borders, like very, very easy to cross borders you are going to just draw the people who want to live off of those systems into your country.Until like osmosis you, you get equalization and you no longer have those systems functional anymore. You know, they, they’ve been completely milked. To, to saturation point, that’s why I use the [00:24:00] osmosis. So, do people know what osmosis is? Should I explain what osmosis is? You know, it doesn’t even matter anyway.Do you, do you know, do you need a.Simone Collins: I, I know it’s about equalization between cell membranes typically. Okay, great. Yeah. With concentrationsMalcolm Collins: of,Simone Collins: ofMalcolm Collins: material to, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So anyway so the point here being. And because if you do, then you get equalization. The, the, the two ways around that is to have generous social welfare systems then keep your borders very tight.Or you can, but, but France tried to have both. And what that means is because France is more generous to its immigrants than other countries like the United States, if I am an African. Right. And I am deciding do I want to go immigrate to the United States or do I want to go immigrate to France? Right.I’m, I’m making the choice. Suppose I’m one of two people, [00:25:00] right? In case one I have a, a Harvard graduate degree or a Stanford graduate degree. I am a, a well-known engineer. I’m really like productive. Obviously like the choice wouldn’t even be a a, you go to the US. So you, you got Nigerian guy, super, super smart you know, could get a job at any company.There’s no way on earth he’d immigrate to France and unless he just happened to speak like French and have a family connection there or something, right?Probably, yeah. Butgenerally speaking. Outside of other factors, he’s gonna go to the United States. Now, suppose I am a refugee or I am you know, somebody who, you know is, is comfortable living off of state welfare systems.Which country do I go to? Oh my God, no. I would not look or touch the United States with a 10 foot pole. I’d be, especially with, with Trump and knowing the sentiment about immigrants now in the United States, I, I would just be like, f that. No, but the, the funny thing is, if in the United States there isn’t.Particularly bad treatment of like high talent [00:26:00] immigrants especially in anywhere where they would immigrate too. The United States is being sane in how they’re handling this. Totally. So the reason why France deals whiz immigrants who are a drain on state resources is in part because of their generous social services.Mm-hmm. And I will note that the United States has broken this.Where you saw many of these immigrant talents and immigrants were getting like, literally more money from the government than, than recipients, like native welfare recipients on like credit cards and, and getting nice hotels and stuff like this. This was happening in the UK as well. And really messed up.Really messed up because then that draws the types of immigrants that cause problems. And it’s often the immigrants in these sorts of setups where you have the problems of, you know, the crime waves and the greats and the assaults and all of that. You know, and, and I think that this is one of those things that the left can’t really deal with.It’s like there was a case recently where somebody living in one of those nice hotels and getting money every week in the [00:27:00] uk to some girl. And people were like, but he had a place to live and he had all the money he needed. And why did he like we, we, the left acts? I’m not the left acts like the reason why.Immigrant populations sometimes do bad things, is simply because of bad economic conditions or lack of material goods or something like that, not because they have set up a system that would actively draw in the type of grifters who’s comfortable living that life when most people just aren’t. And in fact you often see this even in countries that offer these things like I know this about Asian immigrants I know from who, who grew up in Canada and they were like, oh yeah, my parents could have taken from those government systems, but they actively chose not to because they thought it was dishonorable.And like that’s the type of immigrant you. Right. Like, where they’re like, well, I could live off the government. I, I fit all the qualifications to, but like, I’m a guest here and I have to earn my place in society. And those are the types of people who are gonna be really anti-immigration in the next wave.Right? There was a bunch of [00:28:00] anti-immigrant way riots in Australia recently. And I noticed a bunch of people rioting looked like visibly Asian. And I was like, oh, you see, oh, you see this in the, in the United States as well. A lot of the anti-immigrant protests have a lot of black and Hispanic participants.But. What was it that Macron put into place that caused everyone to turn against him and led to this incredibly, because he was like the king for a bit and then his coalition completely sped up and then he had to cheat to beat the right. Oh. So for people who don’t know, this is why he had to end up cheating to beat the Right.So what he did is he teamed up with the, the far left groups and he’s sort of a more centrist party, and he’s like, we won’t run against each other in the districts where we’re running against Lapins party. Just. To ensure, because she was gonna get the plurality and be able to control the government and likely right, the ship.We’re gonna talk a bit about her party’s politics in just a second. If people tell you they’re far right, you can, you can judge whether you’d support them all right. But what he tried to do was a retirement agent increase of 62 to [00:29:00] 64. He and, and people just freak the F out basically. And.That really gets me right? Like it really gets me that what he was attempting to do was keep a system solvent for more than five years That they, that they were, they were rioting over an imaginary thing. It, it, it, it reminds me of that Monty Python scene where the guy wants to be a woman and the other guy is like, sure fineSpeaker 2: I want to have babies. You wanna have babies? It’s every man’s right to have babies if he wants them. But you can’t have babies. Don’t you oppress me. It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression. Symbolic of his struggle against reality.Malcolm Collins: .And I feel like that’s what’s happening in France. They just wanna protest. So.When asked, by the way, because you’re wondering why they, the, the Yellow West protesters like young people were protesting they, they said it symbolized deeper frustrations with Macron’s Pro business. Read that pro reality. Policies, which they saw as favoring the wealthy while [00:30:00] eroding social protections.Issues like precarious job markets, eg. Gig economy, short-term contracts, high use and employment around 17 to 20% for under 25. And education reforms fueled a sense of general discontent. Okay? And getting rid of the wealth tax that’s gonna make all of those things worse. Sorry. Adding the wealth tax, uh uh, him getting rid of it helped all of those things.It caused a flood of new taxpayers, business starters, everything like that. And then if you, other things that they said they had a chant, which was why work longer on a dying planet? Which is sort of crazy. Right? Alright. But I wanna talk a bit about Lapins party.Simone Collins: Yeah.Malcolm Collins: So I’m sure you’ve heard that there are four right extremists.Right. What are, what are their far right and insane beliefs? Right. Right on me. They are against birthright citizenship. Okay. That means that somebody automatically becomes a citizen ‘cause they’re born in a country in a country that has an indigenous [00:31:00] population like France. That makes perfect sense to me.In the United States. I might question ending that slightly more. But in France I have no problem. Was, was getting rid of that. That’s totally a, a rational thing, especially if there’s people abusing the system to abuse your generosity as French people. I mean, if immigrants are a net drain on your economy, what that means is they are essentially like a guest that you are giving money to rolling out the red carpet for.And if they then. Treat your country with anything other than the utmost respect and your heritage with anything other than the utmost respect.And, and I, and I doubt even many people in Lapins party would want to kick out immigrants that are treating French culture with respect. And we’ll see this as well, right?Like this is more to prevent people from abusing the system who do not really care or like French customs and ways of life. Ban dual citizenship and strip nationality from foreign criminals. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.Yeah.National preference for jobs, housing and welfare reserve. Social benefits, eg.Family allowances, RSA and minimum incomes to be [00:32:00] exclusively for French citizens non-free. Must work in France for five years to receive them.Simone Collins: That seems,Malcolm Collins: why is that not already the law? How is this the for right party? Yeah. Moratorium on immigration and deportations. Immediate halt to immigration into family reunification, re regrouping, familia no regulation for undocumented immigrants and deport illegal immigrants.No deport illegal immigrant. Asylum applications must be filed at embassies abroad, not in France. All of that is perfectly reasonable. Restrict healthcare for foreigners. Again, perfectly reasonable. And Deis Islamization Matters specifically a ban on veils in public spaces. Which you know, something that I ideologically am like I, I have more trouble with, and that,Simone Collins: that, that impinges on people’s cultural sovereignty,Malcolm Collins: but.The French people have a right to their own cultural sovereignty, and there are many places in Muslim maturity countries. This is what I would say. If these [00:33:00] populations were the majority, the populations where people are wearing veils right now. Mm-hmm. Would you French people, women be allowed to go outside without veils on?Likely not. In most countries where they’re the majorities, that’s, that’s a law. Or you, you face where it’s not a law. You face the risk of violence in, in, in, in grape. When, when you do go out without it. Mm-hmm. So why is it unjust for them to ask that of these other people? I think that, that it’s their right as a sovereign country to demand that of people who are their guests.Simone Collins: You make a fair point. Yeah, I could see that.Malcolm Collins: I would, I would feel differently if there was no other country that these women could live in, where that was the norm or allowed, or in many cases, legally mandated. Right. So yeah, I, I, I, I, I can’t understand why they, they literally are like, how dare you force this on these people?And it’s like, there are countries where people who think like them are the majority, and we can look at the laws in those countries. Mm-hmm. The, the famous dune line that everyone likes to quote,When I am weaker than you, I ask [00:34:00] for freedom because that is according to your principles. When I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. Okay?Malcolm Collins: Basically saying that the, the, the groups only say, oh, I want this stuff right now because they can benefit from it, right? Um hmm. Exit key EU framework.So they want to leave nato. They want to leave the eu. Wow. They’re claiming that France is overpays by $7 billion annually. They wanna hold a public vote on leaving the eu. I think that’s totally irrational. The EU has been a complete disaster and it’s gonna be quite dangerous to France in the near future.‘cause France for a long time was Annette. Drain on the eu. Basically Germany paid into it. France took out of it. That was the way it mostly worked. It was basically a form of war reparations on Germany. But now that Germany’s population is crashing out faster than France’s is France has no reason to continue to play with this, basically to scam system.They set up. Drain German coffers so that Germany could play like it was ruling Europe. Which I guess they kind of were for a period. Yay. [00:35:00] They got what they wanted in imposed their totalitarian mindset on everyone. They want more protectionist trade and nationalization of specifically they want nationalization of a lot of public utilities.It’s sort of like their version of like the B-B-C-N-P-R, that sort of stuff. Totally reasonable. They want anti tech fraud ministry. Ooh, a lot of French people are gonna be mad about that. Hmm. They want tax incentives for youth and family to try to get the birth rate up. Good for them.Simone Collins: Not gonna make a difference, but, well, I guess if it’s income tax incentives, it really could actually.That’s the one thingMalcolm Collins: weSimone Collins: really support.Malcolm Collins: They want to stop giving like family allowances and, and welfare to families that are committing crimes or in other ways delinquent and like doing bad things, which again great. They even want to enact the death penalty. Oh no, I’m pro death penalty if you do it cheaply in the US we do it too expensively, that’s the thing.Yeah. I don’t know if they would be doing itSimone Collins: financially sustainably.Malcolm Collins: I, I think most people when they initially set it up would do it sustainably. I think the only reason the US is so unsustainable about it is because we’ve had it in for so long, [00:36:00] but they want to ban. This is the only policy I really hate about theirs.Is they want to ban assisted unloving.Simone Collins: Mm.Malcolm Collins: Which I think is not smart.Simone Collins: That’s so off theme for a free problem? Well, no, it’sMalcolm Collins: like the appeal to the traditional Catholics.Simone Collins: Oh, okay.Malcolm Collins: Keep in mind, they also have like ridiculous IVF policies in France, where’s basically illegal. Yeah. And people are like, no, it’s not illegal.It’s, you have to implant the embryos immediately. That makes it functionally like really difficult to do at above replacement rate. Mm-hmm. Which to me means that you, you know, you’re functionally sterilizing any family that’s having trouble basically. Okay. Just for some ca roll into of how, how bad the situation in France is right now.France has been in a prolonged political crisis since President Emmanuel recall Ruon called Snap legislative elections in 2024, following his citrus alliances, poor showing in European parliamentary elections. The elections resulted in a hung national assembly. It was no single block securing the majority.And blah, [00:37:00] blah, blah. Lapins party would’ve won the plurality with about 33%, so they cheated to, to win. I could go over the specifics of, of what’s been going on there, but I don’t think it’s particularly interested. I thinkSimone Collins: r is, they’re basically unable to form a functional government right now. One of the primary reasons why.A coalition can’t be formed that would be sufficient to do so is that none of the politicians given the time left before the next scheduled election want to put their reputations on the line and get involved with this dumpster fire when it would probably preclude them from being able to win when they run next.So they’re like, no, I’m sitting this one out. Totally not tying myself to this mess. And two years away from your next big election. Not touching this. So basically no one’s stepping up to the plate because they actually wanna get reelected and the system demands a certain amount of consensus in order to function.And so you have this deeply divided government that has no incentive to form or be [00:38:00] functional, which means really, this is just another example. I mean, we’re, we’re recording this at the time of a government shutdown in the United States. What we’re starting to see is an age of. Dysfunctional governments have governments unable to even spend the, the money they still have at this time.And I think people are going to be increasingly accustomed, if not functionally, at least mathematically to the idea of their governments not really working anymore and, and, and recontextualizing their private communities, their own families, and also just private businesses as being the new sources of ultimate governing power.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I, and I point out here with France, IBF policy, we wouldn’t have any kids if we lived in France. Like we, we, we like literally would be sterilized by the state. Well, we’d haveSimone Collins: to go to other countries and that’s what most people are doing in Europe. Well, you know, they’re going Netherlands, they’re gonna Mexico,Malcolm Collins: they’re going.It’s very hard. It’s very hard to do. It’sSimone Collins: expensive. It’s not fun. Especially if you’reMalcolm Collins: doing it for a lot of kids. Like we would be, you know? Yeah. So, you know, and you’ve gotta go for the checkup appointments, you’ve gotta go. So, [00:39:00] in France today, like I’m just pointing out my larger. Themeing here in France today, we would be sterilized by the state.Under Sharia law, we wouldn’t all of my like best French friends are black Muslims so like, and like literal African black Muslims. So they’re all my, my best friends and friends. And so like, my ambivalence towards France’s situation right now is high. Because they’ve always been nicer to me.Like the, the, the, the, the African Muslim community in France has always been nicer to me than the French community. Now this isn’t, by the way, true of all Muslim populations. Like in the uk for example, the Muslim population there has always been ruder to me than the native British population. But they’re getting Muslims from different parts of the world.I, I don’t know what the whiter, like, obviously I have. Disproportionately spent time in one Muslim community in France, and I don’t know if this is true for all the Muslim communities in FranceSimone Collins: and for what it’s worth, I had good friends who were college students at France when I was in college and [00:40:00] visited France a ton and had a great experience.So it’s, I don’t know. I also feel like part of this is your text and heritage and there’s something also that seems to be uniquely. Texan about not liking France and mispronouncing Oh, everywhere.Malcolm Collins: Everyone I knew grew up hated French people. Yeah. Like I, it was like a normal thing. Like, you guys might not understand this if you’re from Texas but it was seen as like a normal patriotic thing.Like it, it was part of being patriotic, like yeah.Simone Collins: Guns. Whereas my grandmother was a French war bride. My mother was, she wasMalcolm Collins: not a French war bride, Simone. She called,Simone Collins: literally her biography is called Memoirs of a French War bride. She really wanted to be French.Malcolm Collins: To be French ‘cause she thought it was high class.Okay. Yeah. She was a F-ing Jew from Russia. Okay. She was not a French war bride. She triedSimone Collins: to brand herself as such. Okay. Like, quite literally. But anyway, like I know whatMalcolm Collins: she did because she was hiding from Nazis.Simone Collins: Yeah, but I mean, I grew up with Francophiles, so I, you know, I, I’m okay with it. If you, if you’re French and you watch this podcast, [00:41:00] please don’t think we all hate you.No, weMalcolm Collins: haven’t. We’ve, we’ve done something. There’s this great community in France, which I wish we had in the us. Which is like, an investment group. That Oh, that one? Yes. Yeah. That specifically is trying to, they’re like a vc, but they are like aligned with like the lain party and like trying to bringFrances birth rates back up, bring back heritage in ways that they can also capitalize on.You also keep inSimone Collins: mind, French culture is extremely divided Parisian culture. Is extremely different from the culture in the French countryside, for example.Malcolm Collins: Yes. I, I, I always hear that, right? Mm-hmm. And so, maybe if I spent more time in the French countryside, I’d have a very, and I haven’t been to the French countryside, actually.Simone Collins: I think people in the French countryside also have like a similar attitude toward Parisians that you do. I kind of hate them like getMalcolm Collins: rid of ‘em.Simone Collins: Yeah. So, you know, I’m just saying,Malcolm Collins: Well, no, it’s, it’s one of those things where like there’s just no reason to be rude to somebody for no reason. Like, unless you’re a Parisian it makes a day worse.I think. I feel like theSimone Collins: [00:42:00] Snobbiness is part of the cultural cachet, you know, to be the mean, popular, fashionable girl that, that coldness, you know, just how the studies have found that waitresses that are more cold get higher tips.Malcolm Collins: Oh, really? Mm-hmm. I had no idea. That seems very unfair. I know. It,Simone Collins: it really frus, like all the waitresses who participated in these studies were like completely outraged by this.Like, I bent over backwards to be accommodating and nice to you and you tip me less. So yeah.Malcolm Collins: Anyway you want, you know,Simone Collins: you want the approval of the person who’s like, aloof.Malcolm Collins: I just don’t understand the purpose of acting that way. Like it puts other people in a bad mood and then they act bad towards other people, and it’s like a cycle that spins outta control.Yeah.I, I just don’t, I don’t, I understand it’s their culture and like if they’re leaning into it, Parisian culture specifically, I, I, I note that it, it’s not that way in the countryside. I’ve heard.Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I will also say like in in German cities I’ve gotten [00:43:00] much more like glares and, and brusque responses in German cities, like checking out at the grocery line and stuff like fumbling with money and whatnot, and them just being like, and Germans are nice for that, and I love Germans.You know, just ‘causeMalcolm Collins: people are,Simone Collins: doMalcolm Collins: I, I, Germans are, are fine, they’re too authoritarian. Like, no, theirSimone Collins: language is the cutest language. How can you call a language? That has words like wa vasal.Malcolm Collins: Well, I, I should point out by the way, I have also dated both French and German girls. Very seriously dated a German girl.She was a hardcore communist. She argued to me that, cuba was a better place to live than America. And I was like, cut one. Why are people risking their lives in little dinghies to try to get to America then? Nobody does that going in the other direction. You know, I knowSimone Collins: Greta’s risking her life in a little dingy to try to get to Gaza, so you never know people.Oh, that, that wholeMalcolm Collins: thing’s over. Now, like, I’m wondering like for everyone on the Flatella, they like look around and they’re like, okay, so this is no longer an efficient way to [00:44:00] get aid to Gaza. Like, no, it’s justSimone Collins: a party boat, you know?Malcolm Collins: What do we do? I, I actually genuinely wonder if they did party afterwards or were they too shocked by it being Trump to actually partySimone Collins: The boats looked like group houses in Silicon Valley, like the interiors of them from the photos I saw, I just feel like it’s a bunch of young people hanging out, mostly going on in an adventure like your dad did in his college days.But yeah, no, France is, man, I mean, just like considering the timelines of this, you know, that, that this, this is going to become an install program and. Five years. We are very close to seeing the world teetering on very profound instability. And it’s gonna be interesting to see how it plays out, especially as AI rises.So buckle up friends.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, buckle the F up. Oh, by the way, people are wondering, they’re like, Malcolm, why? Why have you dated people from all of these different countries? My undergrad, where I went for four years to get my graduate degree was St. Andrews in Scotland. Which being in Europe [00:45:00] and being one of the best schools in Europe has a hugely diverse population in terms of like what countries and what nationalities which is why I have.So many friends from different countries around Europe. Yeah, theSimone Collins: UK schools are extremely international because they get demand from foreign students and they love accepting them because they pay much, much higher tuition. So foreign students are able to supplement the tuition of, of the local ones. And so it’s a lot harder for local students to get in, but there’s a lot of foreign students there.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway I absolutely love you, Simone, and have a spectacular day.Simone Collins: YouMalcolm Collins: too.Simone Collins: Okay. Gimme five minutes. I changed her her.Malcolm Collins: the episode today. How, how, what do people think?Simone Collins: I haven’t had a chance. I was outlining, trying to outline the episode that I was gonna contribute today. So I plan to get to it when I’m with the kids.Malcolm Collins: Oh, that’s fantastic. No problem at all.Anything new you learned today or any new information? I told you though, the fact I learned today is immediately upon the, the withdrawal of these Israeli early forces, the IDF [00:46:00] Hamas starts executing civilians in the street, just lining ‘em up, shooting them in the back. I love it when people are like, oh, the people of Gaza, like the people of Gaza are being unceremoniously massacred.People are like, oh no, what do we do? Buy Hamas?Oh, that’s fine. They were probably gay or something. Whatever. Oh my God. Do we knowSimone Collins: whatMalcolm Collins: theySimone Collins: were?Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So they, they said they, they were not like sufficiently pro Hamas during the, the war whatever, basically anyone, and this is the reason why I personally had a lot less negative thoughts towards the, the casualties that were happening there than I would in a normal war.Because Hamas made a pretty good showing of trying to kill anyone who wasn’t pro Hamas. You know, there weren’t a lot of. People left who were not pro Hamas. Well, apparentlySimone Collins: they were enough.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but, well, I, we don’t even know if these people were anti Hamas. I mean, it could have just been a terror campaign or anything like that.You know, this is a, the way these things work,Simone Collins: I think the [00:47:00] broader theme is that Hamas was. Perfectly willing to indis almost in indiscriminately kill its own or use its own as human shieldsMalcolm Collins: or, well, no, the, the, the, the wider point being is that while the IDF were occupying there you know, in many ways it was a safer place to be than it is today.Mm-hmm. Which it’s a shame, but that’s, you know, I, I think what everybody expected, who wasn’t completely brainwashed, and it’s, it’s wild to me that we’re not seeing the protesters mention this. And as we mentioned in the episode today, just nobody cares. Like, it’s, it, the war is over. And all of those college people who literally like celebrated October 7th, October 7th.Seventh, October 7th, and they were cheering about this and there was all of these, these things they didn’t cheer when the war ended. When they said that that was their goal. And I think for a lot of people and a lot of progressive in coming out here and saying this, they’re like, oh, like, it really was like about murdering people.Like it, it really was about killing [00:48:00] the Jews. It was not about what they told me it was about. Right. Because they would be cheering right now, there would be holding celebrations on these college campuses. They would be in all of the cities where they marched the streets holding celebratory marches, and they just aren’t because they didn’t care.And I think that there’s been some videos of like some leftist, like. Oh my God. Like, so this was really about antisemitism. I thought that was like a right wing grift. So this is a wake up call for a lot of people. And, and, and for a lot of you, if, if, if you saw people who were actively pushing this stuff and, and whining about this stuff and they’re not actively celebrating the end of the war I, I would, you know, seriously, like if you thought that they were genuine in their beliefs, like, like reflect on that, right?Like, reflect on what that says about what their actual goals were. Anyway, pretty dark. Yeah, pretty dark. But I, I mean, it’s easy when you’re fighting against evil. Like, I, I like our side on all of this because it just feels like the other side is so nakedly evil.Simone Collins: Anyway, [00:49:00] makes things simpler.Speaker 4: I poop.Speaker 3: Hey, do you guys wanna get me? Uh, I can get you some bonkers. Okay. What about you sweetheart? Itsay like, and subscribe. Um, not quite there yet. Hey, Octavia, do you wanna say it like and subscribe? Yeah. This is a public episode. 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Why do so many prominent socialists and communists come from wealthy backgrounds? In this thought-provoking episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the surprising trend of rich kids leading leftist movements, from historical figures like Marx, Engels, and Lenin to modern influencers and activists. Discover the stories behind famous leaders, the psychology of privilege, and the recurring patterns that shape revolutionary ideologies. The Collinses explore whether wealth and upbringing influence political beliefs, and what this means for the future of social movements. If you’re curious about history, politics, or the sociology of power, this episode is for you! Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be exploring the phenomenon that you may not be aware of, which is most socialists and communist leaders, and I really mean most socialists and communist leaders.Oh, likeSimone Collins: actual, like world leaders. Like, yeah, this is going intoMalcolm Collins: distant history of two modern times we’re born to incredible wealth. What? And, and the question is, is why, why does this trend happen? And it’s something I’ve seen as well with, you know, all the wealthy kids especially the ones who didn’t have to earn it being incredibly like the most communist socialist people I know.Speaker 3: rude boy living in the shanty dorms. Please guide me from,Simone Collins: yeah, no, there’s, there was this one like trust fund kid conference that you. You, it’s called a summitMalcolm Collins: or something. Not summit. What was it called? Not Summit Ter,Simone Collins: Nexus Global. Nexus.Malcolm Collins: Nexus Global. AndSimone Collins: everyone in it was, it was really like kids [00:01:00] of, of, of very wealthy families who have basically family foundations that were charities talking about how they’re gonna spend their family foundation’s money.Malcolm Collins: And it was all, all woke nonsense. And it was all, it was allSimone Collins: like socialists too. Marxists and communists and, which is so weird. Yeah, becauseMalcolm Collins: I, and it wasn’t like meant to be a Marxist conference. No. It was meant to be a rich kid conference. Yes. Okay. Yes. So you see this constantly. So let’s go over where we see this phenomenon playing out.I’m just gonna. Read to you names here. Right? Okay. Okay. ‘cause see, this isn’t just a historic saying. This is a modern thing as well. Okay. Zhan, Ani. You know the guy who’s the communist running for the man of the people.Yeah. What?Born to Oscar nominated filmmaker, Miar Na and Colombian Professor Mohamed Mandi Young Zhan enjoyed a jet setting lifestyle before New York, India, and Uganda.What family Vacations included film sets and academic conferences. Perfect prep for fighting capitalism. Right. But hey, at least he traded red carpets for red politics.Simone Collins: Oh boy.Malcolm Collins: Fidel Castro Fidel’s Co Fidel’s [00:02:00] father owned a 25,000 acre plantation with 500 employees, where little Fidel rode horses attended elite Jesuit schools and Boston around servants one advent goat.He once staged a quote unquote revolt against his strict boarding school by locking himself in with candy, foreshadowing the real revolution, minus the sweets. From Castro’s family wealth in early Life stories Hassan Piker Hassan’s father was a VP at a billion dollar conglomerate and a board member of multiple forms.Affording a posh Istanbul upbringing was private schools and family trips. Funny bit. Hassan once joked about his uncle Sikh hugger, the Young Turks founder, who we’ll go into next as a Nepo baby but skipped mentioning his dad’s empire. Talk about streaming from a glass house. Sec by the way, grew up in East Broad Wick, an affluent suburb with strong cool before the family settled and blah, blah, blah.He, he also had a fantastically wealthy family, but less wealthy than Hassan. Hassan’s family was a, from what I can read. [00:03:00] Multi-billionaires wow. Or not multi-billionaires, but they ran multi-billionaire corporations. CEX was probably few hundred million. Either way, neither of them have to worry about money, so clearly that’s why they don’t care about lying about.Do you think that bothSimone Collins: Jen and and Salon are trust? Kids.Malcolm Collins: Yes. They never have to worry about money in their lives. Wow. If, if something went wrong or anything, they wouldn’t have to like, if, if Hassan really loses it for shocking his dog, like a psychopath.I America Kaya, please just go. Just stop.God Hassan, stay on the bed. It won’t stop. Yeah, well, neither will chat. I’m busy.Malcolm Collins: And here’s the thing, I actually don’t even mind shot colors for people who aren’t aware of this.So Hassan’s one of like the leading like, lefty streamers, right? And he got caught after. The dog had sat in a corner for four hours like yelling at his dog and then shocking it so [00:04:00] that it like yelped and went back in the corner when it just tried to get up and walk around. I’m actually like, shock colors, whatever.Like for me, you know, like we do corporal punishment, like whatever. But forcing a dog to sit in one corner for four hours as a prop. And we can see on earlier videos, he used to chain it up to do this. Like we have a dog. We could use it as a prop, but we don’t like, that’s a psychotic thing to do. Yeah. I don’t have like my kid in the corner like shot collar to make sure they don’t, they don’t move from their spot like we should I under?WeSimone Collins: should. Oh my gosh. No. But also next, next episode. Just expect to see Octavian in the corner with a big ass collar on.Malcolm Collins: No, but I also love, oh, we gotta do that for Halloween. What are you Zo love son’s dogSimone Collins: ta would love just sit him back on this window sill. He will just die, right? No. SoMalcolm Collins: the, the funny thing is, is like we have the whole like bop gate for us, like when we do light corporal punishment with our kids and, and, I so wanna be like in an debate with Hassan about this, and I’m like, yeah. And you know what the difference between you and Maria is, is I am [00:05:00] honest about the things I do as punishment because I’m willing to stand behind them. You are not. This is the difference between you and me and my friend. There you go.When that came out, we didn’t go out there and be like, no, we, we would never do that. I’m like, we told you we were doing this beforehand in our episodes. Mm-hmm. Here’s all the science that shows that it’s a good thing to do. Probably. I mean, here’s our logic behind doing it. So I just love what a, what a and what I hate about Hassan most right now in, in terms of how he’s handling this, is he is forcing other people to put their reputations on the line and lie for him.Simone Collins: I don’t think he’s forcing him. I think they’re voluntarily doing it.Malcolm Collins: I mean, obviously my favorite was the one recently where the girl came out and she goes,Speaker: I’m not No, no, no. There’s no shock. Like the electric prongs are taken out of it. ? Like it’s only a vibrates, like there’s a setting for vibrate and there’s a setting for shock.True. That’s a fact. That’s a fact. Yes. SoSpeaker 2: he, there’s only the, like since the prongs are in it, it only vibrates.Malcolm Collins: . And then she said, and that had been taped over, and now we know that Hassan was showing one with shock prongs taken out and taped [00:06:00] over.If you’ve never used one of these shot colors before. The prongs are removable in any of them. It’s a standard feature, right? You just take out the prongs. Because the idea is, is that once you use it for a certain period of time the dog gets used to it and then it only needs the beep and the rumble, and you don’t actually need the shock.Things to contact the dog anymore. But Hassan had said that it wasn’t a shot caller, it was a rumble version. And a friend goes, oh, I went to his house. It was a shot call. He just took out the prongs by that point. But the dog’s not gonna yelp on the rumble setting, right? So Uhoh Anyway, side there.Frederick Engles. Engles grew up in a sprawling family estate with mills across Europe. Think of Victorian downtown, Abbey downtown.Simone Collins: Oh boy.Malcolm Collins: Anecdote as a teen, he skipped business lessons to party in Manchester’s elite circles. Then used his inheritance to bankroll Marks irony. And the guy who co-wrote the anti-capitalist Bible was basically a trust fund kid subsidizing the proletariat.Someone’s gotta do it. Linen [00:07:00]Simone Collins: what? Sorry? You got thoughts here? I, I don’t, I mean, who’s gonna bankroll the socialists, if not Nepo babies though.Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, this is, they don’t haveSimone Collins: the means of production.Malcolm Collins: It’s not a, i i I, without getting, ‘cause people know I didn’t get any family wealth from my family.I could have not exactly my family’s choice, although had always told me I wouldn’t inherit money, but it was all stolen as well. So like, it’s, it’s very public that there’s no way I could have gotten any money from my family, which is good. I like that everyone knows, you know. I could be a communist if I want to, but self-made people very rarely want to become communists.That’s, that’s the problem, right? Like people who are successful within the capitalist system rather than just handed their money. And this is one of the reasons why I think you get this pattern. They see the value in the capitalist system. The people who are just handed everything, they have nothing but guilt and they wanna frame themselves as good guys.Vladimir Linen Linn’s father with a high ranking inspector was hereditary nobility, affording elite schooling, and a family of state childhood tale. Young Vladimir [00:08:00] both hosted quote unquote revolutionary games in the garden, bossing siblings like a mini czar until his brother’s execution flipped the script.From noble picnics to proletarian purges. Cha’s, upper middle class family owned estates. He grew up playing polo rugby at elite clubs and traveled Europe. Cha was a polo kid, polo kid. Oh no. As a kid, he staged quote unquote battles at the family ranch. They had a branch of course complete with toy guns and servants as quoteunquote enemies foreshadowing his real life.Oh my God. Hmm. I love the sociopathy. The servants have to play the enemies. All of my friends on my side, and we’ll just gun down the sermons, which is what he did in real life.Simone Collins: Good practice.Malcolm Collins: Well, what we see is what Communist Revolution is really almost always are, is idiots who think they’re fighting for equality that these types of illegally educated people are [00:09:00] using.And then a cabal of wealthy elites who are utilizing those idiots to centralize their power and assure an even less what’s the word I’m looking for here? Society where people can move between class distinctions. It’s really about solidifying elite power structures. Oh, and you see this with current communists as well, like that’s, that’s clearly what they want, right?They do not want. They do not want, like if you go to your average Antifa rally and you’re like, great, we’re gonna help, like, the, the, the forgotten rural Rust Belt community. Oh that’s not who we were talking about. Uplifting. I was thinking more the, the, the Trans Trust Fund kids who, who literally, as I point out, like I don’t understand how anybody falls for you got these trans people who dress likethey’re literally like from the Capitol and the Hunger Games pretending that they’re like allied with like the, the, the working poor, right?Like, no, you hate them and it’s very [00:10:00] clear when you talk about them that you hate them. Right? And it’s very clear that you don’t live in these communities. Despite the statistics I’ll give you. And we have another episode on this, I’m gonna do another episode on it in more detail. But like the trans murder rates are like super, super low, especially if you take out trans black people, which make up like 50%.That blew my mind.Simone Collins: Yeah, because it, it was typically discussed that like trans people, especially because many of them enter sex work to support their transition and whatnot, like are, are disproportionately exposed to risk, et cetera.Malcolm Collins: It’s because they’re, they’re, they’re in upper class communities often and leaching off of upper class communities, even if they themselves don’t have jobs.And, and this is what I’ve noticed is people will act like, well, I’m really poor when they’re living. It’s like their rich friend in Manhattan or something like that, who’s helping to pay for everything, right? And it’s like. Okay. I mean, you might technically be poor, but you are living in Manhattan.Right. And I know for a fact if you were actually, everyoneSimone Collins: feels poor in Manhattan. Yeah. To be fair, you wouldn’t be doingMalcolm Collins: that, right? Yeah. So clearly you’re getting money from [00:11:00] somewhere. Next one, pull pot. I dunno if you knew this one. Pole pot was a wealthy family was royal court ties. He grew up with French tutors and lived in the King’s palace as a page boy French tutor.Page boy. Pull pot page boy pull pot. This is the one who did the Cambodian revolution where they had the killing fields and they just like, one of the most brutal communist dictators in in history. My gosh. French tutors page Boy. This does not check out. These people are good at rebrands. So the peasant utopia, the architect enjoyed elite scholar scholarships in Paris studying radio tech while shipping cafe lattes, oh, sorry.Sipping cafe lattes before banning all that burg and cheese burgundies stuff back home. I can’t even say these comedy words. Bourgeois. That’s what what it is. Comedy words for Paint my American tongue for.Simone Collins: You gotta the burgundies burgundy. Oh my god, Malcolm so much. Oh, it kills [00:12:00] me. It kills me so much.Malcolm Collins: Jessica Milford from Burton’s eccentric mil fort nobility. Jessica grew up in a sping estate with servants debutante balls and fascist siblings. She once carved a hammer and sickle into her bedroom window to troll her dad. Then he eloped with a communist cousin to fight in Spain. Carl Marx. By the way, Carl Marx was also not poor.Marx’s lawyer dad owned Ryan Vineyards funding Carl’s posh schooling in Bon, where he painted dued and racked up debts. Dued. Alright. You know, you know you’re classy young. Carl once got jailed for a drunken night out bailed out by Daddy’s cash. Later on he lived in Ingalls Mill money while writing manifestos.So literally it’s like the law doesn’t apply to me. I’m so rich. Level of rich there. Right.Simone Collins: I mean, I, yeah, to, to be socialist or communist though, you have to be subversive and, and [00:13:00] subversiveness often requires a, a pretty sizable level of personal empowerment and confidence, which is easy to get when you’re wealthy.Malcolm Collins: Well, if you look at what happened with Marx, it’s very clear. He wa grew up super wealthy. So wealthy, the rules didn’t apply to him. He never had to worry about working or a job or anything like that. And as soon as that stuff was required of him, because he didn’t expect it ever would be required of him, he’s like, well, I need some alternate system to pay for my lifestyle.Right. Mm-hmm. And that’s when Engles started to support him.Mm-hmm. Butthe, the, the point here being is that he and a lot of these wealthy kids simply do not have a worldview where they are ever going to work. That, that. That is antithetical to to hear. Sorry, my, alright, we’re gonna keep going here, but we’re getting, we’re getting every name on the list here.Mal is a don. This is insane. This is insane. So. Mao’s father was a prosperous farmer money lender with vast lands [00:14:00] afforded private tutors in elite schools. Teen Mao staged hunger strikes against his dad. Strict rules hiding in barns with books. Ironic for the guy who’d later starved millions in the great leap forward.Well, he tried it. It wasn’t so bad. Yeah. Okay. Leon Troskey Trotsky’s. Dad owns massive farms with laborers. Young Leon had private tutors and summer horseback rides. He once commanded farm kids in mock battles prep for leading real armies, but was way more privileged than the proletariat sea championed.Oh, now Pete Capone and an I know, and he’s a, what’s the word, anarchist, communist back in the 19th century. Oh. A Russian aristocrat and proponent of Anarchical communism was born into a noble land owning family descending from the ancient Warwick family. His father owned surfs across three provinces and kin, grew up in Moscow mansion with, with, attached estates educated at the Greek court and serving as a personal page to Emperor [00:15:00] Alexander ii. Good. Okay. On We’re not done here. Ho Chi Minh. Ho Chi Minh. Born Ang Kun to a Confucian scholar father who was an imperial magistrate ho, grew up in the rural Vietnamese village with some family star status perks, like private tutoring in classical Chinese texts.Goodness. He flew kites. Fished in rivers and enjoyed a relatively carefree childhood in the elite college in ho, a top French academy for Vietnamese nobles for future leaders like Fa Von Don and Vo. Y Guan also studied at around age 10 he got expelled or nearly so for protesting French teachers, treatment of Vietnamese students for shadowing.Sorry, I mute myself. Next here, Bertrand Russell, born into Britain’s Elite, the grandson of a two-time prime minister. No, these aren’t like kind of rich people. These are these super wealthy, super elite, super old blood [00:16:00] people. Is what we keep seeing here. You know, like in the Imperial family playing polo as a kid, et cetera.Young Bertrand was orphaned early and raised by his strict Victorian grandmother at her luxurious pin book lodge in Richmond Park. A sprawling estate fit for royalty withs and servants and gardens galore. His private tutors. No need for regular school. Lived in isolation from other kids until 17, leading to a lonely but intellectually loaded childhood where he contemplated un aliveness, but was saved by books and mass.I love, he’s so close to modern people. Bertin Russell. At 11, his brother introduced him to Euclid Geometry, which he called as dazzling. His first love. It’s working a lifelong package. He, he. Secretly ditched Christianity becoming an atheist at 18. After reading mills bonus as 18, he jetted to the 1989 Paris Exhibition and climbed the brand new Eiffel Tower, climbed it all funded by family wealth.It has [00:17:00] stairsSimone Collins: for the, he, he walked up the stairs, Malcolm.Malcolm Collins: Oh, that. Okay. Alexander Knik, Colney daughter of a Russian General from a Noble family. I’ve been to the top of it by the way. I just thought it meant he just took theSimone Collins: elevator.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he did. A Noble family was Ukrainian and finished roots grew up in luxury estate, servants, elite education.Actually, I’m not even gonna say any more of these if I already recognize them. We’ve got a. Well, this one could be relevant to our Eastern European Inver Hoa. He’s an Albanian Communist leader, set of wealthy Muslim Landover and Kloss Merchant was ties to the Ottoman Elite. We got Tony Ben, I’ve heard of him.British Socialist politician born Anton Woods Wood Ben. That’s aristocratic name if I’ve ever heard of one. The aristocratic son of a vi count and the grandson of a barronett lived off of inherited wealth. Jessica Milford, British writer and activist from the aristocratic Milford family Philip Tony b British com Communist journalist and writer, son of renowned historian, Andrew to Tony b from the intellectually [00:18:00] elite family benefited from nepotistic connections and Esmond Rahmel.Lee nephew of Winston Churchill. He was a British communist and he was Winston Churchill’s nephew. Born to aristocratic privilege, youth, family wealth and education for becoming a communist fighter in the Spanish Civil War. So Churchill goes and has this Africa adventure and this guy goes to the uh, so thoughts on this?‘cause this is really a full list. This is modern to ancient from the beginning of this to Zhan Ani, right?Simone Collins: Yeah. So it makes me think about, the, the sort of other angle that a lot of people have looked at the systematic disempowerment or wealth redistribution of wealthy families in. Typically like communist and socialist regimes and how over time, both in like Eastern Europe and in in Asia, descendants of those families that were systematically disempowered just end up in very influential and wealthy positions again.Yeah. So, and I just feel like you get ba this is just another element of disproportionately wealthy and intellectual families [00:19:00] producing disproportionately wealthy and influential people. It just so happens that they chose to use the. Government corruption slash like socialist scam to obtain their power and wealth in this case, but like are using the same tactics that a capitalist would use.Malcolm Collins: I want to expand on your point before I disagree with your point. Okay. Okay. So, and to expand on your point, the study she’s citing, which I personally find fascinating and show how much of competence is genetic. Couple studies that in China they did a fairly good job of consolidating wealth among a few elite families and then disenfranchising all the other elite families and putting them on the.Society and then the bottom of society with raised, it’s like higher class and it was much easier to get jobs and positions. If your ancestors had been farmers and if they had been like you, you were treated with active derision in your daily life. Well today, you know, a hundred years later, if you look at the people who are in leadership positions within the Communist party I think it’s something like.45% of them or something are descended from those very people who are put on the [00:20:00] bottom of society at the beginning of the Communist revolution. And so it just sort of like re resource itself. This is part of why Cambodia has never really economically recovered when other regions have economically recovered like Vietnam and China.Because in China and Vietnam, they just treated their wealthy elite during the communist period. Like underclass citizens in Cambodia, they were systematically eradicated. And because of that, Cambodia has never been able to really re industrialize them the same way because they just don’t have that class of people anymore.And I think in Cambodia now, a lot of wealth is, is just owned by Chinese. Who, who came in because they still had that class of people who could come and soak everything up. I’ve heardSimone Collins: that. Yeah.So one number that I was able to find on this is that Chinese people own, uh, 92% of the business assets in Cambodia. This is what happens if you eat the rich in your country, the rich from another country come and take over. .Simone Collins: Well, and there’s actually, that’s the case a apparently in a lot of a lot of,Malcolm Collins: well, we have another episode on this, the [00:21:00] Jews of Asia.But the point is, is you benefit from this elite class enormously. And, and what, what communism really is, is a revolt. Of a few factions with that elite class against the rest of that elite class using the poor to achieve that end. Mm-hmm. It is not and people can be like, oh, well, real Communism’s never been tried.That’s not the way communism is supposed to be done. And I will say that communism may work in a world with ai. We can talk about that. We’ve talked about that. That’s the point, is thatSimone Collins: the, the, the, the actually respectable leaders in, in communist theory pointed out that this is a post scarcity.Arrangement system only. Right? Butthis makes sense in a post a GI super prosperous world. Sorry, but just,Malcolm Collins: just quickly here, I agree with what you’re saying, but I wanna explain why it doesn’t work. Pres scarcity. Okay. Where you still have any degree of scarcity? Well, it’s obvious because the whySimone Collins: you basically need just infinite resources created by people who aren’t people so that no one has the word.Malcolm Collins: That’s not why. [00:22:00] So like on paper, communism could work like this idea that you could give ownership of the means of production to the people, right? And then sort of decentralized power entirely and have everybody sort of a agree on this decentralized worker owned world, right? Like this.Could hypothetically exist. The problem is as many people have tried to create this before, like not all communist efforts were disingenuous, but when you decentralize power to that extent, the extent that it exists within quote unquote real communism.Mm-hmm.Anyone who. Is willing to subvert that system, say, actually I’m not going to let go of my decentralized power.Can concentrate power and then take it from the decentralized architecture. Which is why communist systems always turn into because if you’ve said, oh, well, we’re all giving up all of this and all of this and [00:23:00] all of this, and one person’s like, well. I’m gonna be running the, let’s just say like, and you could do this from any position of government, eventually centralized power.Whether you are checking to make sure the supply lines are working correctly or running the supply lines or running you know, quota checks or running, you know, anything like that. You, you can easily, or you determine, you know, the exchange rates are you, you know. Anything where you have a degree of power, you can just further concentrate that power and then create a crony system where everyone under you, because they are getting disproportionate wealth because of you, and disproportionate power because of you has a, has a, a, a vested interest in maintaining this new system.I do not think that many of the communists who go and start these systems realize that that’s what’s gonna happen. They think that they are actually going out and redistributing wealth in, in some sort of meaningful context. And what ends up, and, and the reason I think they hold these beliefs is when you are incredibly wealthy and you grow up, you are not.[00:24:00] Punished for wrong beliefs. You are not punished for making mistakes. You are not punished for I, when I mean punished, I don’t mean like by your parents, I mean by reality, right? People who make their own money if you make a mistake, like right now, like we don’t have a job. Like we’re working on a startup.We’re trying to make this work. We just got turned down by Andreessen. So, and we, we were, you know, on our way with them. So now we’ve gotta find out what we’re gonna do next. And, this is, you know, five kids, right? Like, I get punished for my mistakes if I don’t perform. I can’t create something that people wanna use with, you know, parisa.io, our school system, or our fab.ai, our you know.Online agent system for like chat bots or the new system we’re building with our fab AI that will allow you to have like persistently online bots that are just sort of always running and can like, give you phone calls and answer your texts and send you texts and send you emails and do coding for you.And, and we’ll have like persistent personalities which evolve over time. Think of it like a. [00:25:00] Tamagotchi human, I, I don’t know how to put it right, like a, a, a pocket human. Very excited to start releasing those onto the world because the ones we have in our test environment are really cool. But where am I?Was this stuff? Yeah, I’ve, I’ve had to, and, and we’ve, we’ve built it before. You know, we’re basicallySimone Collins: saying trust fund kids and nepo babies. Are, are, are doing bowling, but with the bumpers on. Yeah. And if you’re doingMalcolm Collins: bowling with the bumpers on, you choose the, the, the thing that makes you look, you’re just throwing the ball.Simone Collins: You’re just throwing the ball. You’re not, you’re not really aiming in any meaningful way. Whereas with the rest of the world is, is playing with the gutters and they end up in the gutters when they screw up and, and that changes everything and they quickly learn.Malcolm Collins: For example, how incompetent the masses are.One of the, the first things you learn if you’re managing lots of people is how incompetent your average person is. And that, that it is really hard. I mean, that’s what makes management hard is you can’t just handle everything yourself. Right. And fortunately AI has fixed that for me because now I just [00:26:00] use more and more AI employees and I’m working on building more and more AI employees.Yeah.Simone Collins: Well, it enables you to, to you, you now only have to work or. Can choose to work with the top 0.1%, which is so nice. You don’t have to depend on anyone else.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Which is going to potentially make a system like communism, well not traditional communism, maybe some sort of like UBI system, but that will have huge negative effects.Watch all our videos on how bad UBI is. So like, I don’t know where humanity is going. We’ll probably need some sort of like simulated hardship, especially once we enter aSimone Collins: Yeah. People are gonna need to have jobs.Malcolm Collins: That’s it. Yeah, he’s gas. But what I can say is we’re not headed to gay space communism.It’s, it’s very unlikely when you look at fertility rates because people who accept these types of ideas have incredibly low fertility rates. And they have historically, as well as we pointed out, like East Berlin have much lower fertility rates than West Berlin East Austria, which, by the way, one of our fans didn’t realize that Austria was divided like Germany.It was had much lower fertility rates than West Austria. And the Soviet states had lower fertility [00:27:00] raise. And so the, the, during the baby room, and so the question is, is like, how do you, people and I, and you know, within most countries, the more leftists you are, the fewer kids you have, so they’re just not gonna exist in the future. And so we’re much more likely to have like the austere techno Puritan like spaceships and, and, and Catholic spaceships and the, we’ll, we’ll say, right? We’re, we’re heading much, much more to the war hammer future.Okay. Than the I, I, I’d say even Starship troopers or star Trek futures. So it. I, I think that that’s it. I think it’s if that, I also think that if you are born into wealth and privilege and you expect to inherit money, and I have noticed this, the kids who go communists are the kids whose parents set up systems for them, where they inspect to inherit wealth.If I look at my wider family, which I’ve often pointed out is in incredibly successful you know. The we, I, I, I know the way I was raised, I was always raised with the expectation that I’d inherit nothing. And not only have we been incredibly successful financially, like most of them, I am the, the big failure in the [00:28:00] family.I, I literally have three siblings or cousins that run. A fund that’s like around a billion dollars. And then others that run like major AI studios and stuff like that, that you’ve heard of. And he means each, they’re, it’s not theSimone Collins: same.Malcolm Collins: These are all separate funds. It’s not the same. No, it’s, it’s separate funds that they other people gave them control of, not like family money or something like that.And so, and they’re usually pretty conservative. Most of my family’s pretty conservative except for one of the uncles who used to run the Fed, but he wasn’t raised in the family. So, the, or at least they’re not like far woke or whatever. Right. And so, I think that what it is, that it depends on how you’re raised as a family.Are you raised with sort of the expectation of a life of luxury without and this is, I’ve noticed this with rich families as well, which can create this problem, is the family will. Give disproportionate attention to and disproportionate money to whoever is the loudest member of the family. And whoever is willing to do the most, you know, work on trying to gain control of the trust and everything like that.And these are often the least competent [00:29:00] individuals. Because they, they don’t have another way to make money, right? Like if you, if you’re competent, you go out and you make money in some other way, and if you’re incompetent, well then you stay within the family. And so, their lifestyle structurally looks like communism.And I think the reason they argue for communism is because. They think, could I go out in the world and like, make something useful that people want and will pay for? And that helps other people. Like, no, like I don’t wanna do that. So I will play a game that doesn’t have metrics, right? Which is the game of revolution and a game that can make everybody’s life like my life.So I don’t have to live with this cognitive dissonance without really thinking about the actual consequences of what they’re doing. Any thoughts, Simone?Simone Collins: I am curious to know if there are any major communist or socialist leaders who came from a background of poverty? Did you look that up?Malcolm Collins: I can look that up.I mean, I’m sure it’ll find at least one.Simone Collins: Sorry, I’d look it up, but he’s gassing. I’m trying to get him [00:30:00] to. Let it out. Trying The stomach massage, the, the the foot thing, the, the back pats, the burping bubbles. Gotta go.Malcolm Collins: I mean, I, I need almost all of them in that list, right? Like there are, yeah, yeah. There’s not many left after that list, but like, potentially.I just wanna see how long, how far down it has to go in terms of being Stalin.Simone Collins: Did you mention Stalin?Malcolm Collins: Stalin, I’ll, I’ll look up Stalin might be, but Stalin was the consolidator, right? He was the guy who had to make things work. He wasn’t actually like a communist, communist, you know? He was like I’m gonna take advantage of these rich idiots and have them all murdered.So that I can rule things my way. Let’s see. Well, I’ll, I’ll check out Stalin here.Simone Collins: You asked Rock. No, heMalcolm Collins: was impoverished. Yeah,Simone Collins: Stalin. There you go. That makes sense. ‘cause he was a tough mofo, likeMalcolm Collins: Right. But he also wasn’t like motivated by communist ideals either. He was motivated by power and well killing the, the rich bergon Jeep people or [00:31:00] whatever.Simone Collins: The bourbon beans. JosephMalcolm Collins: Stalin kyle Gorbachev, but again, he like worked his way up. So that’s not really Hugo Chavez, that’s a, that’s not a, a, a great way. See there were aSimone Collins: couple,Malcolm Collins: but these, these are more people who worked, they were not ideologicalSimone Collins: pioneers. They were more famous leaders.Malcolm Collins: Yeah.Yeah, this is interesting.Simone Collins: Yeah, no, I mean, I, I, I’ve noticed the trend, I’ve really wondered about it. The, maybe this, this is, this dovetails with the concept of luxury beliefs as well. That, especially in a, in a pre singularity world, socialism and communism is a luxury belief and it’s not practical and only more resourced people can have.Malcolm Collins: What, what socialism and communism are, is they’re functionally a monopoly of the state by one company. Yeah. Like that’s what they always turn into. We try to keep them decentralized. This is why I often say that extreme [00:32:00] libertarianism and extreme communism. Are functionally the same belief system.Yeah. Because both systems end is with, and, and this is the thing, when I say functionally the same, neither of them intends on this being the outcome, but both of them lead to this outcome by decentralizing power too much because we decentralize power in a systemic way. You allow anyone who is willing to.Play counter to the system to recentralize power among themselves. Mm-hmm. And so with extreme libertarianism, you end up with one company owning everything, or maybe in a better case, like three or four companies owning everything. And then in communism you end up with just one company owning everything.I mean, what is. A state that decides where things go, like where food is distributed, where housing is distributed, any different from a company, factory town.Simone Collins: Yeah. In the end, right.Malcolm Collins: And you can say, well, the company, factory town, at the end of the day yes, it decides how you [00:33:00] eat, how you get your food, it manages all that.But at the end it’s exporting profits to the owners, right? Yeah. And I’m like, well, communist systems functionally do the thing for the leadership. I mean, look at the way. You know, they’re living in North Korea, and you could say, well, it’s not supposed to do that. And it’s like, it doesn’t matter that it’s not supposed to do that the, the person with the most power in the system.Basically, even if they didn’t want to abuse that power, they’re forced to because the people under them with the next most power are gonna want their payoff. They’re gonna be like, where’s my, so you don’t just need one person to be like perfectly moral for a communist framework to work. Yeah. You need an entire chain of leadership to be perfectly moral.And that’s not realistic. No. Outside of a world with ai. If AI was managing that leadership and checking so it could work.Simone Collins: It could work Well, this was interesting. ThankMalcolm Collins: you.Simone Collins: And I love you a lot.Malcolm Collins: ISimone Collins: gotta go take care of this noodle.Malcolm Collins: All right. Love you so much. I’m sorry you got a a cry baby there. He’sSimone Collins: [00:34:00] gassy.He’s a gassy giant.Malcolm Collins: And as you say, like I feel, I do agree that I think communism and stuff like that is gonna come back to the left. And I think one of the things they’re gonna be surprised about a lot of people on the right is we’re like, well, I mean was ai It could work. Yeah. I mean, AI really is probably gonna take most jobs.We should be looking at how we’re gonna, economically speaking. Yeah.Simone Collins: All right. I’m gonna go help him fart. I love you. Love you too. I’ll see you downstairs later. Bye. Bye.Malcolm Collins: Okay, just go for it. All right, let’s have a look here. It’s being weird for me. Sorry.Simone Collins: Oh, what am I making you for dinner, by the way. Oh, we have one more night that curry. I was thinking maybe some kind ofMalcolm Collins: your enchiladas are always really good if you make them with something like this. Taquitos.Simone Collins: Is it okay if I do taquitos with mozzarella?‘cause we, we only have American cheese and mozzarella left. We don’t have any.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that works. But I, you’ve gotta cut what’s in it. Into smaller pieces if you’re doing taquitos, because it’s pretty big chunks in this one.Simone Collins: Okay, then I, I will, I will finally chop it [00:35:00] hands in. Gloves?Malcolm Collins: Yes, you will put your hands in chain mail because I do not want another finger coming off.I am sorry Simone, that I am such a strict task master as a husband. The ketos we’re good to go. I’ll, I’ll do it.Fight the Titan? No. Why does Titan have to fight us? Titan? Why a b***h or no? Toasty? I’m trying Torsten. She’s trying to help your sister. What do you Torsten? Torsten? No. What do you think mommy is doing? How do you think that makes me feel buddy? Look like the twin us. In what way Get you dressed and warm for outside, buddy.Simone Collins: Oh, excuse me. Why would you do this? Excuse me. I don’t think that’s trying to tricky take, take a picture of You look great, buddy. I, yeah, you look very. See I wanna swipe your hair to the side, oc.[00:36:00]Yes, you. Oh, Torson, what is the trick that you think that we’re playing on you? The trick that are playing on us is putting evil socks that, and putting evil shirts on us. But these are just regular shorts and socks that you need for like life. Torson. What the, can you put your boots on please? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive deep into the surprising reality of fertility rates across Latin America. Discover why official numbers from organizations like the UN may be misleading, how actual birth rates compare country by country, and what these trends mean for the future of the region and beyond. The discussion covers demographic data, cultural factors, religious influences, and the broader implications for global population trends. Whether you’re interested in demographics, policy, or just want to understand the real story behind the headlines, this episode is packed with insights and data. Malcolm Collins : [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are gonna be talking about something that I accidentally stumbled into while I was trying to grab fertility rates for a reporter.And so the reporter comes to me and they go you know, we, we were talking about this with Telemundo, we were talking about the fertility rates across Latin America, and I Googled because I remembered that Columbia, for example, had a very low fertility rate. Yeah. The, the measured rate right now, and I’ll put the Wikipedia page where it has like the government stats on this, okay.Is 1.0 6 6 6 6 7. That’s, that’s basically half this population every generation forSimone Collins: comparison, UK’s around 1.5 US is around 1.6. That is.Malcolm Collins : Bad. You got 1.07 around it. Ooh. And so I googled it and the Google result came back was 1.6. That’s a, that’s a, a decimal point error. That’s, that is enormous error.And I was like, where the hell is this number coming from? I did some digging [00:01:00] and it soon became, please don’t see the un, it was coming from the un. No, no. And so I asked an ai, I’m like, how is the UN getting this number? Whereas Wikipedia and Columbia is getting this number.Mm-hmm.And it explained to me the difference in methodology.It said. Oh, the number that you are looking at, the 1.06 number, that’s the measured fertility rate in Columbia. The number that the UN is reporting is the number that they predict should be the fertility rate of fSimone Collins: It’s like our sun, Octavian and, and some math problems we give them where we’re like, Hey, what’s X plus x?And, and he gives us a number and we’re like, no, no, no, it’s, it’s seven. And he’s like, no. It’s 13 because he said it was 13. Yeah.Malcolm Collins : He understands. That is the UN right now. Oh. And so what we’re gonna be going over in this is because then I was like, how bad is this OVERREPORTING number in terms of the data that a lot of people are getting.So we went through the official sources Wikipedia, where they’re citing the [00:02:00] country’s own demographic statistics.Yeah.Across Latin Americans. We’re gonna go across Latin American countries right now.Okay.Which by the way. If you average them come out to a TFR by, by their relative populations below the US’ TFR already.Yeah. And I point out this isn’t just a Latin American problem. This is a Latin American problem in the United States. The state or territory was the lowest fertility rate, and by the way, it’s not even close. Puerto Rico, which has a fertility rate of only 0.9. All right. That isSimone Collins: so bad. It’s so bad.Malcolm Collins : No, I have mentioned this quote before, but I have to mention this quote here ‘cause it’s so important. There’s a Latin American demographer who is a professor at Penn. You know, Ivy League Penn. Very nice, fancy school,Simone Collins: respected, reputable.Malcolm Collins : Actually, we should reach out to this guy about having him on the show, if you can make a note of that.Okay. Because he’s right next to us, right? Yeah. And he’s a pretty based demographer. Jesus Fernandez, Aire, Dre.Simone Collins: Oh, this guy? Yes.Malcolm Collins : The professor of economics. [00:03:00] Okay, so, these are some quotes from him in a interview that he did. Jesus. First I think the United Nations is over counting the numbers of births in many countries.For instance, in Columbia, the United Nation claims that in 2023 there are over 700,000 births, Columbian authorities and I have talked with them, tell me that there were. 500,000Columbia. The official number is 500,000. This is fighting about the second decimal Alice. That’s a big difference, Alice. So, and this is like do da.here. So crazy. Like, you know, there are clever people. Why are they, you know, coming up with. Why are they, you know, coming up with inventing numbers? And then Jesus says, so I send them an email and the answer we got, and I’m doing this with a young researcher, Patrick rna we send. Email and they told us that they don’t want to be alarmists. That’s [00:04:00] literally what they said in the email. They said, yes, maybe the projections do not make a lot of sense, but we wanna be very cautious and we don’t want to be alarmists, and we don’t want people to think that there is a crisis looming which, and then Alice cuts her off because it’s like.But there is a crisis looming. Well,Simone Collins: imagine. Imagine if someone did that with climate change. Yeah. Well, we don’t want people to worry, whereas like they did completely the opposite. They kept lying about the end of the world and then ultimately, you know, becoming so alarmist that now everyone’s so desensitized that even Greta Thunberg can’t even bother to be an environmental advocate anymore.Malcolm Collins : Well, trusting the UN about. Population collapse is a bit like trusting one of those cigarette like advocates. We work for the big cigarette companies on it helps toSimone Collins: clear your lungs, you’re fig your lungs inside the house.Speaker 2: what I do. I talk for a living. What do you talk about? I speak on behalf of cigarettes. My mom says cigarettes kill.Really?Now, is your mommy a doctor?Speaker: No.Speaker 2: A scientific researcher of some kind? [00:05:00] No. Oh, she doesn’t exactly sound like a credible expert now, does she?.Malcolm Collins : Oh, I mean, we point out that the Club of Rome, which is an organization dedicated and is Earth for all, an organization that they founded, which is dedicated to the reduction of the world’s population by 80%, has a bunch of members in leading roles within the un.So, you watched our episode about this, or we go over all the data on this. But then Alice says, Alice, this is really like, it’s their job. I mean, their job is to report the numbers and if they don’t want to do it because Jesus, I know, I know, but look, they, Alice, it sounds a bit like a totalitarian Soviet.Then that’s where I cut off. But the point I’m making here is this is being done deliberately. The coverup is being done deliberately. And it is. When you were talking about a fertility rate of 1.06 and it’s being reported as 1.6, that’s at the level of like genocide denial, because when you get to a fertility rate actually I’ll just do the math on this right now to see how many great grandchildren that meansThere’s going to be 15 [00:06:00] great-grandchildren for every a hundred citizens. I. But we also see a lot of Latin American demographers talking about this. I often mention the Colombian demographer who described Columbia’s demography as vertiginous and said that there was under one child for everyone.Native born Costa Rican woman at this point. And then a Colombian demographer wrote. Columbia has the second largest drop in the number of live births in the long list of countries surpassed by Chile. And it already has a birth rate lower than that of Japan in all caps. , The explanation from demographer.They’re good, but they do not account for the acceleration and change and another thing they don’t count for. And this is worth us. And another thing we’re gonna go into in this episode is why. Do Latin American demographics, why are they collapsing so quickly in Latin marriage? Majority regions, but so slowly in the United States, Latin Americans still actually have a very robust fertility rate in US states that aren’t Puerto Rico.What’s causing this? Let’s go into the data. [00:07:00] Let All right. Let’s just start listing numbers here. Argentina UN 1.5. The actual number, because anyone who knows Argentina’s certificate should know 1.5 is nowhere near Argentina’s fertility rate is 1.16. And by the way, I’ll put a chart on the screen of countries and Latin America by their fertility rate.Bolivia UN is saying 2.5. The actual fertility rate is 2.06. Again, with these, you’re getting like. Point five off on fertility rate. That means that the UN is assuming that every woman in a lot of these countries is having half an extra children.Simone Collins: It’s just so creepy because it, to me also feels like an attempt to stop anyone from realizing the gravity of the problem so they can’t begin to work on solutions.In, in a similar way, how, like Planned Parenthood just very quietly, made sure certain populations had very easy access to abortion and didn’t really [00:08:00] talk about it. It is just, it, it, it really gets under my skin. I, I don’t like this.Malcolm Collins : Yeah. This, this great grandchildren number. Cannot be right. But it might be, it, it says that it would mean there’s . There’s going to be 15 great-grandchildren for every a hundred citizens. Okay. Which is not, the countries cannot stay stable with numbers like that.Simone Collins: Okay.Malcolm Collins : Brazil, the real numbers in Brazil are 1.47. The UN estimate is 1.6 Chile and, and Brazil. Like, I remember I was talking to a reporter from Brazil and she was like, well, you know, we don’t have this problem like you do in the us. And I was like, excuse me, your fertility rate is way below ours.What are you talking about? Mm-hmm. It’s more that Latin America is just in denial about this. I mean, when I was talking to somebody, well,Simone Collins: can you, they’re not in denial. They’re being actively. Gaslit about this? No, there’s whiteMalcolm Collins : American demographers talking about this. Like Jesus is clearly Latin American, right?Like, yeah, but he’s in, he’s in freaking Pennsylvania with us.Oh,sorry. Well, I mean, we need to get Latin American at, at tele, they go, where are the Latin American ISTs? And I was like, I don’t know. I can’t force him to be [00:09:00] ISTs. Right. Well, I mean.Simone Collins: They are inherently pro-family. They’re just aware of demographic collapse,Malcolm Collins : has a big follower watcher base in Latin America.Like our fab is being run largely by Bruno, who is in Brazil. And the team that was working on that was Latin American, and that’s like one of our core projects as a podcast. So, like, and our company is Latin American. Oh yeah, we should sell that house soon. Looking at the population numbers in Peru.So, yeah, scary stuff. And we were also pointing out like we know our primary social network is Latin American because that’s our primary work network. And we were actually thinking recently to ourselves that we only knew a single Latin American family that was above repopulation rate of, of our generation.Or even around our generation, I’d say it was in like 20 years of our generation. Mm-hmm.Which was wild to me to think about when I started thinking about that. Mm-hmm. And to continue here Chile has a fertility rate of 1.03. The UN is labeling it as 1.1. Columbia has a fertility rate of [00:10:00] 1.07 UN is labeling it as 1.6.I already went over that Ecuador. This one is actually higher than what the UN rates. Oh, yeah. The UN says 1.8. I mean, not much, but Guiana has a fertility rate of 2.35 UN is labeling it as 2.4. Paraguay has a fertility rate of 1.95 UN is labeling it as 2.4. Again, that’s, that’s almost a 0.5 discrepancy there.Peru has a fertility rate of. 1.8 UN is labeling it as 1.9. Surinam has a fertility rate of two UN is labeling it as 2.2. Uruguay this is another one that’s UN is massively off on, has a fertility rate of 1.19. The UN is labeling it at 1.4. Venezuela has a fertility rate of two. The UN is labeling it at 2.2.Uruguay has the fertility rate of 1.19, the UN building at 1.4. Although, just keep in mind these numbers that I’m listing here that Uruguay has the fertility rate of 1.19, right? Like these are catastrophic. That is below Japan, right? That’s, that’s getting close to China.Belize for another one that the UN is [00:11:00] massively lying about. Has a fertility rate of 1.63. UN is labeling it at two. Costa Rica has a fertility rate at 1.12. The UN is labeling it at 1.3. El Salvador had the fertility rate of 1.4. The UN is labeling it at 1.8. Guatemala has a fertility rate of 2.2. The UN is labeling it at 2.3.So not big with that one, but something other ones are really big. Honduras, Ooh, this one’s bad. I have to get fertility rate of 2.01. The UN is labeling it at 2.5. Nicaragua has a fertility rate of 1.8. The UN is labeling it at 2.2. Panama has a fertility rate of 1.82 UN is labeling at 2.1, and Mexico has a fertility rate of 1.6 below the uss.By the way, as of last year, the UN is labeling it at 1.9.That is absolutely shocking. If you wanna know what the Hispanic TFR is in the United States right now. Yeah. This is, this is based on provisional, but we’re looking at a TFR of around 1.97. Oh.So very decent that would make it one of the highest Hispanic fertility rates on Earth.Yeah.Whereas the what, what, what is non-Hispanic white [00:12:00] rate right now?It’s is 1.54. Non-Hispanic black is 1.47. Non-Hispanic black is, whoa, whoa. What? Wait, what? The black fertility rate in the US has fallen below the right fertility rate.Simone Collins: But you knew that, and especially at higher levels of income.Malcolm Collins : No, I knew at higher levels of income. I’m talking about in an absolute context.Simone Collins: Oh, absolute. TooMalcolm Collins : absolute. This year it’s 2024 provisional. Yeah. Last year it was higher. Last year it was, the white fertility rate was 1.53. Mm-hmm. It was 1.58 for the black community. Now it’s 1.54 for whites, 1.47 for blacks.Simone Collins: Oh no. Wow. No. Once again, it’s, well, I mean, like, so before this, just for context, consistently, like when you looked at income levels, the one group that had the highest fertility at higher income levels was just white people.Yeah.Malcolm Collins : Way whites have a way, if you go above the 50% income rate, [00:13:00] whites have one of the highest fertility rates. This, this and soSimone Collins: it’s really more that like other groups in the United States had higher fertility because they also had higher poverty levels, but now we’re just seeing overall.Lower fertility. Oh,Malcolm Collins : I have always pointed this out. I’ve yelled this from the rooftop. Northern Europeans are resistant to fertility collapse. Jews are resistant to fertility collapse. There’s me doing my little Moroccan dance being like, everybody pay attention. The other groups are gonna fall faster. You just wait.Yes, it started at a lower rate, but it gave them time to build an immunity. And you wanna hear another shocking number? Tell me. You know what other demographic is? A blub black fertility rate as of 2024.Simone Collins: Not Asians.Malcolm Collins : Asians.Simone Collins: Whoa. Wow. Asian fertility rateMalcolm Collins : went up to 1.55.Simone Collins: Wow. Good for them.Malcolm Collins : And the non-Hispanic American [00:14:00] Indians and Alaskan natives have a fertility rate of 1.39 the lowest of any ethnic group in the United States, as we often point out.Simone Collins: Yeah. As we’ve Yeah. Very often pointedMalcolm Collins : out.Sadly, I have to do a correction here. I did the math wrong and I’ll explain how I did it wrong. But what we’re getting here is, and I’ll make this prediction now, is that Black American fertility will fall below the other fertility rates very soon. , Specifically what happened is I was calculating from provisional data and the provisional data had the GFR.But not the TFR. So I applied a multiplier to the GFR to turn it into A TFR. The problem is, is that the multiplier that you apply to A GFR to turn it into A TFR is different for different ethnic groups, because different ethnic groups have kids at different ages of their lives, which means it’s a lower multiplier for Asians than it is for blacks.So blacks still have a marginally higher fertility weight. Than whites are Asians right now, but it’s going down much faster, which I’ll explain right here in a second, which means that we’re [00:15:00] likely gonna see a lower black fertility rate within the next, I’d say, half decade or so than any other ethnic group in the US except for Native Americans.Malcolm Collins : But actually this is, this is wild to me. So if you look at these numbers the, the interesting thing about the, the, the Hispanic fertility rate in the United States, it is mostly stable, so, I’m gonna go 2020 to 2024 for the Hispanic fertility rate.Okay. 1.88, 1.9, 1.97, 1.95, 1.97. Stable, even trending up a little bit. If we look at the white fertility rate, what does it look like? Very stable as well. 1.55, 1.6, 1.57. 1.53. 1.54. Okay. Now let’s go to the black fertility rate. And this is where you see a real strong pattern.Hmm,1.71, 1.68, 1.64, 1.58, 1.47 every year a dramatic drop.Whereas in the white and Hispanic, it was going up and down. If you look at the [00:16:00] Asian we see the same thing, fairly stable, 1.54, 1.51, 1.51, 1.47, 1.55.Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. And I think it’s only gonna get worse because the biggest fertility depressor in the United States leading up to all this was the 2008 market crash.And already now people, as you can see, they’re scaling back their travel, they’re scaling back, their restaurant spending, Vegas is, is crashing out. So I think we’re getting back to that mentality of, I’m gonna tighten my belt and stop doing anything. Including having kids.Malcolm Collins : That’s gonna be one of our next episode headers, by the way, is black fertility rates.I need to find out where those numbers they’re from below Asian in America now. Like that is bad.Simone Collins: Yeah, that is bad. AndMalcolm Collins : I, I, I’ve been predicting this for like a few years at this point. I gotta reach back out to that NPR interview I did to give them those stats because that’ll rock their pants off.I wonder if progressives will finally wake up to this now that, that black fertility rates are below white fertility rates. No,Simone Collins: because it’s [00:17:00] clear, as you can see from the, the end of the, that with the ceasefire between Israel and Gaza, that they don’t actually care about the groups they say they care about.When, when it turns out that they’re actually getting screwed over in some way, that things are actually getting bad for them or worse. Crickets. So don’t even worry about it. We’ll just talk about it. I,Malcolm Collins : I, I, I need to, I need to have those numbers up next to the, we will replace you sign the, the, the, the we.We’ve got like a live laugh, love. We will replace you sign in our house. I’m gonna read a quote from the Atlantic here, ‘cause I thought it was pretty good. They’re actually interviewing this demographer as well in this. And so they go, sorry, did you say bad news? I, that was actually good news. Based on estimates that turned out to be far too rosy.Every two years, un demographers revise their population projections, and for the past 10 years, they’ve always had to revise them in the same direction down next year. They’ll do so again, in reality, the worldwide population decline is set to begin decades ahead of their expectations because global fertility trends are much worse than they, and probably [00:18:00] you think he first began noticing this in 2019, that the UN was too optimistic.But only in the past few years did the discrepancies become downright alarming.I dunno how I forgot to mention it, but here are the Financial Times charts from, uh, last year where they showed what the actual fertility rate was in a bunch of different countries, and then the UN’s projections every year, which are the blue lines? The red line is the actual fertility rate, which you can see is the actual fertility rate is crashing while every year.And every year the UN makes a mistake in the exact same way. They say it’s going to stop falling this year. They’re going to stop falling this year. Um, and I, I don’t know how you could make this exact same mistake every year and keep your job unless your job tacitly was to lie and mislead people. And what’s funny is they’re using these mistaken estimates as the real numbers.Malcolm Collins : So. Why now we’re to the final question here. There’s a few questions and we’ve, we’ve one addressed part of this, which is why do Catholics have low fertility rates? Mm-hmm. Because Catholics two, you look in Europe, they have really low fertility rates [00:19:00] in, was in America, they have low fertility rates and in Latin America, they have low fertility rates.There was a study done on America and Catholics to try to find this, and this was done back in the eighties. So I don’t think that this is. The whole case anymore, but it found that it was because they got married later. But once they were married, they had kids at the same rate. But there are other effects at play here.And I, and I wanna go over it. So first you have what’s called the Healthy migrant Effect. Many Latin American immigrants to the United States are young, healthy, and motivated by family building opportunities. They often come from rural, traditional backgrounds with higher baseline fertility. Mm-hmm.And I hadn’t heard about this, so I looked, and it is true immigrants come like a, a disproportionately from not, not more than 50%, but I mean, disproportionately compared to the base Latin American populations from rural backgrounds.Mm-hmm.Once in the US they’re able to achieve their, their cultural, you know, expectations because of these low fertility, sorry. These rural backgrounds but I, I found that to be really interesting. The other one I was interested in was, is it that they’re more religious in the United States? Right? Like, that was my other take, is maybe Latin Americans in the US are more [00:20:00] religious.And actually this is not the case in Latin America. 69% identify as Catholic and 19% as Protestant, and 18% as unaffiliated. A majority attended services, weekly prayers daily and considered religion. Very important. Median is 72%. However among us, Hispanics, Catholicism has declined sharply only 43 to 49%.So, more than half of, of, of, of Hispanics in the United States are not Catholic. Whereas in that makes sense,Simone Collins: honestly. Which of our, I mean, do we have anyMalcolm Collins : Yeah. Are any of them Catholic?Simone Collins: One. One is Catholic.Malcolm Collins : The gay one.Mm-hmm.Yeah. Yeah. All the Catholic, Hispanic people I know are gay. WellSimone Collins: small sample size, but still,Malcolm Collins : That’s wild.Only we’ll move this whole thing and we’ll do another episode on it. It’s gay Catholics are like really common. Like really common, like, oh yeah,Simone Collins: no, we need to do the wise is Catholicism so gay in, in a good way. But like, so like we,Malcolm Collins : we like, and, [00:21:00] and you even see this among like the influencer scene, like Milo Gianopoulos, right?Like very Catholic, very gay. But alsoSimone Collins: the clothes, oh my gosh, the, the vestments like, course, it’s insane. IMalcolm Collins : said that the the Catholic outfits, like the priest outfits mm-hmm. They, they literally look like they were designed by a gay guy. And the in the best way, like, we mean in a very flattering, in good way.I like them, but then I, well also likeSimone Collins: consider the church, like if you are gay, you’re more likely to become a priest. I mean, they’re, they’re taking gay people and elevating them. They’re like, okay, let’s put you in positions of leadership. Like this is a very pro-gay.Malcolm Collins : Yeah. Religion. But, but, but the Eastern Orthodox investments and clothing looks like they were developed by like a, a male in a goon cave or something.Like, like they look like a pseudo homeless, like male, like d and d player designed them. Yeah. KindSimone Collins: of. Yeah. Very incel, very incel core.Malcolm Collins : Very in so core. Well, maybe that’s why they’re attracting so many men. They know how to appeal to men. But I was, I was surprised about that. Obviously you do have a growing amount of Protestantism within US Catholic [00:22:00] populations.Hmm. But here’s the thing. You also have, you mean Latin populations? Sorry. Within Latin populations. So in, in the US it’s 20 to 24% of, of Latin Americans are Protestant. And in Latin America it’s 19%, but that’s not really enough to make up for this gap. Mm-hmm. And in some of the what was it?Protestant majority countries in Latin America, you have low fertility. But anyway so, the, the big thing that I think is causing this, and I’ve talked about it before, is if you feel like a minority community, you typically have higher fertility rates. Catholics have higher fertility rates when they’re in a Protestant majority country.Protestants have higher fertility rates when they’re in a Catholic majority country. Jews have high fertility rates because they feel like they’re about to be murdered wherever they are, even in their own country. There you go. And so this, when you, when you have like a high degree of cultural distinction and you’re constantly reminded of, you are distinct from the dominant culture in a region or, or, or other cultures, you have this like existential, oh, like if I don’t make more Jews, who else is going to, right?Like if I don’t make more [00:23:00] Latin Americans? But if you’re in a Latin American majority region, like Puerto Rico or something, because we can keep in mind this US fertility resistant thing is not everywhere in the us. It’s not in Puerto Rico. But Puerto Rico is Latin American, mature. So I suspect that’s what’s causing it.Mm-hmm. If I was justgonna say, I mean, I like we’ve explained this before as for low Catholic fertility rates, there are a ton of reasons. I think one of the biggest is that Catholics in, in every other religious system or almost every other religious system. The highest fra, the highest fertility individuals are generally the most devout individuals, so the most devout Jews typically have the highest.Number of kids. The most devout evangelicals typically have the highest number of kids. The most devout techno puritans have the highest number of kids but with Catholics, the most devout people have zero kids because they often join the clergy either as nuns or as priests. And that is terrible for fertility numbers.And worse, even if they don’t join the clergy at a huge [00:24:00] percentage. We did an episode on like glazing the opus day, where I thought they were pretty cool until I learned that like 30% are celibate. And then I was like, oh, that’s so lame. So even if you don’t join the hood, you can still be celibate. Like, yeah.That’s not gonna help guys. The, the church, we like theSimone Collins: opus day. Why are you deleting yourselves?Malcolm Collins : Stop. Yeah. The church has normalized the glorification of celibacy across the priest, Cass, and there really isn’t any institutional pushback against this. You know, wellSimone Collins: actually I saw my Google alerts just now that the Pope gave a speech about prenatal.So I think they’re, they’re starting to you know, like point out the demo. I mean, so unfortunately what they’re focusing in on, and this is very annoying, is abortions,Malcolm Collins : Doesn’t happen. So the, theSimone Collins: headline is Pop Leo condemns falling birth rates in Europe is abortions, kill millions of babies. And it’s like, okay, well.Maybe you can focus on the fact that you guys are marrying too late. Maybe you could focus, maybe you on focus on [00:25:00] factMalcolm Collins : that I couldn’t have any kids in most European countries that are Catholic majority because of your weird rules around IVF that are anti-biblical. I knew you before you were in your mother’s womb, which A applies pre-knowledge of of human life.Yeah. And go against. Basic biology, if the insul happened at conception that, that would mean that you know, identical twins have one soul between them, right? Because you have one embryo and then it splits into two. Yeah. Or that human kymera where you have two embryos who combine, have two souls which is like God could have made it.So those things didn’t happen. He didn’t like, he’s telling us like, you can learn about. My plan through studying this stuff.And if you’re like, well, how much could IVF or easy access to IVF really impact a birth rate? Keep in mind, in Israel, one in 20 babies is born via IVF. That’s a huge number that would make it more impactful than just about any other fertility intervention we are aware of at at a government level.Malcolm Collins : But [00:26:00] anyway I, I think that they, by the way,Simone Collins: Natalia was at that speech.Malcolm Collins : Oh. She was in, this is one of our Catholic she’s not Catholic. Oh, I, I didn’tSimone Collins: think she was Catholic.Malcolm Collins : She didn’t, one of our Latin American friends.Simone Collins: Yeah. But yeah, so she saw this speech. But anyway, just, it drives me nuts that he’s like. The, he’s pointing to the falling fertility rates, especially in, in, in Rome. And talking about how important parenthood is, and he just like blames abortion. It makes me so mad.It makes me so mad.Malcolm Collins : But I, I find this the other, the other thing with, I mean, I see this as, as sort of like the larger Catholic mindset when I look at the Catholic influencer class. And I see how many of them that almost universally, if they got famous before getting married, they haven’t gotten married whether it’s, you know, Nick Fuentes or Pearle Davis or whatever.Mm-hmm.I think that you know, part of what’s leading to this is this belief that, you, you just sort of gotta follow the moral rules and then like the functional rules will come as [00:27:00] a result of that. Mm-hmm. Like if you ban abortions or you say abortions. Now keep in mind in the United States where abortions are far more easily accessible than pretty much anywhere in Europe and I would assume most places in Latin America that are Catholic majority.We have a much more robust fertility rate. Right. You know, so like, I don’t think that that’s the, the, the secret there. And in Europe, in the regionswhere, and I’ll put on screen two maps here. A map of how restriction abortions are in a region. A map of how restriction contraceptive access in the region and a map of fertility rates in a region.And you can see it’s like a one-to-one correlation. Now note here, I do not think that the restrictions on it. Abortion are causing a drop in fertility rate? I think that they are correlated with Eastern Orthodox and Catholic traditions. Mm-hmm. And that those are correlated with a low fertility rate.But I think that, that, that there is, where the meaningful correlation is, is it’s, if I do the right thing, like we talk about like Nick Fuentes and it applies to things outside of his Catholic beliefs. Like if he’s afraid that like white people are [00:28:00] being replaced in our country and that like interracial marriages are bad or whatever, ‘cause he complained about.You know, what was his face, his interracial marriage, JD Vance’s, you know, Indian marriage. It’s like, but you don’t have any wife. You could easily get a wife. You know, you have entire fan communities dedicated to you, right? Like, you just pick one from there that talk about their master plan to become your wife, right?Like you, you don’t have a wife because you have abstinently chosen to not have a wife and make kids. And so that, like you are the core of the problem, right? Like, Hispanic people having kids has nothing to do with how many kids I have, right? Like my fertility rate isn’t affecting, for example, black or Asian American fertility rates, right?No, not at all. You are a ding against the, the very thing that you are complaining about, you know? And so I think that this is one of those just, but, but like a, a, somebody with a mindset like me, [00:29:00] I would feel too embarrassed to go out there and complain about. Fertility rates of other, like ethnic groups or immigration waves or anything like that.Mm-hmm. If I wasn’t actively doing something to resolve the problem myself, like having kids. Totally. And you know, he clearly doesn’t, and I think that this is, this is downstream of this wider ideology, which is if I’m like technically following all the rules, then I’m in the moral high ground, even if I’m contributing to the problem.Hmm.Which you know, I don’t see this in the Catholic communities that are repopulating, but the Catholic communities that are repopulating look very different from the Pope type communities and the the Nick Fuentes Pearl Davis type communities. Mm-hmm.Typically like much more like a insular, like CatholicSimone Collins: insular, autonomous, largely offline.And, and. Very willing to take the [00:30:00] initiative on their own community and own needs while using when necessary resources from their parish and their bishops. And. The larger church organization? Well, they’re often, when necessaryMalcolm Collins : first generation converts or they were raised secular and like, I’m just thinking off the top of my head.Okay. So And we met, yeah, weSimone Collins: met even more at Natal Con. Yeah. We’ve met so many.Malcolm Collins : Yeah. Like, who’s the one that we had on the show as a guest? The comedian lady? Hi Keenan. Peach Keenan. Yeah. Like she converted into it. If, if you think about our friend who when I knew her in this area, oh yeah. She was like raised a Quaker.Mm-hmm. And then became like, you know, hanging out in a house with like, you know, trans people and like a group house and everything like that. Like very urban, super urban monoculture. Yeah. Yeah. Like everybody’s identity was, like their disability and everything like that. And at the time, like I was really concerned for her.Like, it, it didn’t seem like her life was going in the right direction. She, she ends up marrying this guy and moves to like a, a all or mostly Catholic community. Yeah, it isSimone Collins: a very Catholic community. [00:31:00] It sounds amazing. And she did this after just a ton of. Religious introspection. Like, yeah, she works, she weighed a bunch of different, like, what, where do I find the best truth?And she found it in Catholicism. Like, yeah, I think, and, and this is, this is where the strongest Catholics are in these communities. They’re intentionally choosing a religion now.Malcolm Collins : Kids, now she’s, she’s at our rate of child production, just started after us. And, and very, what was interesting to see was her.Is her huge mental health jump and like life fulfillment and life purpose jump after, well, physical healthSimone Collins: jump,Malcolm Collins : physical, the physical health jump in, in moving to this community. And it really did, I think for me highlight like the Meyer of the urban monoculture, like when you are, are soaked in it and everyone around you is like talking about their struggles with like x mental illness, y mental illness, and, and you’re.Day is like dedicated to like, how do I find out what my, my struggle is today or what’s not gonna, instead of just being like, no, this is my purpose. Like this is what I’m here for, this is what I’m doing. This is what’s right. This is what’s wrong. I don’t need to, yeah. And even if it’sSimone Collins: hard, you [00:32:00] push through.And yeah, you get so much more strength from having that faith.Malcolm Collins : Yeah. But I will notice that these types of Catholic communities this, this could actually explain what’s going on with the Hispanic community. They don’t form as easily in Hispanic communities. And the reason they don’t form as easily in Hispanic communities is because Hispanic culture is naturally tied to family systems.Simone Collins: Yeah. So they’re not looking to join, like they already have that strong community and it is their family. And so they’re not, they’re not moving to Catholic enclaves. They’re not getting as involved ‘cause they’re, frankly, they’re quite busy taking care of their extended family.Malcolm Collins : Mm-hmm. And, and this is what, where I see low fertility rates and a lot of my Latin American friends.Is, I know what they’d say if I talked to ‘em about it, they’d be like, but Malcolm, I’m taking care of my parents and I’m taking care of my grandparents. Mm-hmm. And my brother and my cousins. Yeah. I’m taking care of my little siblings. It’s not that they’re not family oriented, it’s that they’re family orientation is completely without a future orientation.Yeah, ISimone Collins: wanna It’s, it’s holding them [00:33:00] back rather than propelling them forward. Well,Malcolm Collins : and this is a problem, which is somethingSimone Collins: actually, so one of the comments was. No. And an email to us was talking about the black tax as being something similar. I’ve never heard of the black tax before, but it’s this idea that if you’re flourishing at least in certain black communities, like the expectation is that well, now you’re gonna take care of your community, right?Like you’re gonna. You know, give some of the money that you’ve earned to this person and this person and support this person. And it can ultimately stop people from accumulating the cumulative advantage that would enable them to break out of a cycle of lower income or poverty, et cetera. So there, there is a place, I think where like family connections or strong community can really pull you down and keep you down.Yeah. Even though it, you know, you have a very supportive and good community, and I think that’s so interesting, like to think, okay, well what, what, what does community look like when it, it, it has a cycle upward rather than a crabs in the bucket dynamic. I.Malcolm Collins : Yeah, that, that absolutely makes sense. And what I was also gonna say [00:34:00] is I also think that in a larger context, the that the life begins at conception mindset really hurts fertility rates. Mm-hmm. And if you’re confused as to why that would hurt fertility rates, if I am talking to one of my Latin American friends and they’re like, well, then I wouldn’t be able to give as much you know, care to my younger siblings.I wouldn’t be able to give as much care to my parents. I wouldn’t be able to give as much care to my grandparents. Hmm. And, and. What we would think, just naturally think, given the way we think life works, is I’m like, well, yeah, but you’re denying your future children their lives. Yeah. Right? Yeah. You know, we believe that you are morally responsible for every human you choose not to bring into existence.And, and the actions, the effects your actions have, not just you bring into existence. But if I talk somebody out of having a kid, I functionally murdered that kid, right? Mm-hmm. Well, we also, I think, holdSimone Collins: adults. To a higher level, like it is not. Your responsibility to take care of an adult who’s, who’s [00:35:00] demonstrated a failure to thrive on their own.Malcolm Collins : I, I, yes. I, I agree with that, but I think that right now I’m specifically talking about the life that begins a conception thing, right? Mm-hmm. So to them, what they would say to us, what I’m like. But like you’re not at the moral nexus of history. Like you, you, you are responsible for the moral consequences on lives that haven’t come to exist yet.These aren’t like imaginary people. They will exist if you make these choices and have all the, the, this life. Mm-hmm. They’d say no, their lives functionally. Don’t matter because life begins at conception. They, their lives don’t exist in any meaningful way yet. Which it makes it very easy. You’re doing no harm if the conception itself hasn’t happened and or you’re doing minimal harm.Whereas to me, I, I view it as like a spectrum of heart. Right, like, as, as the embryo develops and before the conception takes place, all the way on sort of the timeline to decide to conceive. And so obviously my timeline because I weigh like if [00:36:00] my parents were to be like starving or whatever and like on the street and said, Hey Malcolm, can you help me?I’d be. Honestly, if it prevents me from having an additional kid, no, like you are old, you’ve got like 15 years less of life. Maybe my kids are going to have how long to live a hundred years. You know, maybe it was technology 150 years to live. Like, obviously. If I can take the same, you know, however many dollars I’d send to you, $50,000 or whatever, something, and invest it in another kid that is the moral choice to do.But if you believe that life begins at conception, that argument doesn’t make sense.Hmm.And so I think that, that the, the framing of life itself is one of the things that’s leading to these lower fertility rates. And I’d also point out here that where do you have the highest Latin American fertility rates is where you have the least Catholic LA Latins.In, in, in the United States,Simone Collins: huh?Malcolm Collins : So, I think what I’ve often argued, if somebody is like, well, I’m a Catholic and I wanna do something about this, what I would do if I was a Catholic and I’d like a hundred percent do this, people know how, like main [00:37:00] character syndrome I have, I would write a draft and I’d send it to the Vatican.And I’d say I wanna start a new order. And I want the order to take ideas from the opus day around, you know, treating life and work as a religious duty. Yeah. But transfer these ideas to having. Children and helping other people have children. Mm-hmm. Being a, you know, spending your free time creating like daycares at your church for your community trying to make this less expensive for other people, dedicating yourself to the next generation.It perfectly works with existing Catholic theology. Because you, you’re. Basically just taking ideas from the Opus day and then translating them. So it’s sort of like a, a lay priesthood cast that’s super, super dedicated to something you are doing. Something that aligns with what Catholics say they want to do anyway.You can do it in a cool way. Okay, now you’ve got an order. You can use existing Catholic facilities, you can use existing Catholic charities. Raise money on this. You can, you could get your own cool like outfit idea, like maybe people of your order [00:38:00] have to wear like a special outfit. That could be really cool.‘cause it’s Catholic, right? You could then have it be official with the church and you’re doing something that’s very important to the church right now. I think this would work so well. Mm-hmm. I think it would work so well. And I think a lot of people just, they may hear this and they may be dedicated to the Catholic church and they’re like, but.You know, would, would the Vatican really take me seriously? Would you know like. Yes. A lot of times the answer is yes. Like if you have like a decent history of accomplishments and a good plan, and this is a good plan that somebody like needs to do I, I think that the, the Vatican would be quite excited about.Well, I’m curiousSimone Collins: how orders have started in the past. If I were to guess, my assumption would be that just some really wealthy person was willing to fund a monastery. And then that’s kind of how orders started. Like some religious influencer, whatever they were referred to earlier got a patron that was willing to sort of fund things.And the Catholic Church [00:39:00] also received a lot of support from said Patron and was like, okay, yeah, sure, we’ll recognize this. This isn’t. Bad, and you pay us a lot of money. I, I think it’s a pay to play kind of thing, so,Malcolm Collins : I don’t think so. Hold on. I’m, I’m gathering this right here. Just, okay. So, I’m asked to you first have the discern and the, the call and charism.Begin with prayer fasting and spiritual direction. Discern whether God is calling you to found a new religious order. This involves confirming that the spiritual aligns with the church’s missions and your personal vocation. Easy. Every church order has a unique chasm, a specific mission or spiritual focus.EG catechism healthcare, oh, catechism. Yeah. Healthcare contemplation, evangelization clearly articulate the purpose, spirituality and apostolate. The proposed order, for example, the Franciscan emphasize poverty impeaching, while the camelo emphasize focus on, on contemplation, very easy to do focus on the next generation.Okay, so, no, no, no. SoSimone Collins: first you form your group, then you approach the, the bishop of your Catholic di diocese. [00:40:00]Malcolm Collins : Approval. Yeah. You prevent the proposal to the dyne Bishop. Mm-hmm. Where the community is based. The Bishop has authority over new religious community and diocese. Yeah. Like it does not seem that hard.You gain formal recognition a dyne right after. OhSimone Collins: no.Malcolm Collins : But the BishopSimone Collins: has to receive written permission from the Vatican. They have to receive the Apostolic Sea. He can’t. Yeah.Malcolm Collins : And the VV, the bishop can’t simply consult theSimone Collins: Vatican. He has to get explicit written approval, but theMalcolm Collins : Vatican’s not gonna shut this down.Why would the Vatican shut this down? Why would they shut down a Catholic order dedicated to why wouldSimone Collins: the UN want to delete humans and hideMalcolm Collins : from Latin America? The fact that they’re disappearing. They’re walking you in though you can combine this with like anti-abortion work if you want. I don’t care.Like, like make it, make it more Catholic. Right. But I, I think the Pope would be all about this. I think the Vatican would be all about this. I think the Vatican is waiting for this. I thinkSimone Collins: diocese, I think you need the right bishop. And [00:41:00] if you, if you get the right combination and like politically that Bishop has sway in power then, then yes.Especially given that the, the speech the Pope just gave where he was like, family and birth. Rachel, I listened to the speech. I was moved. Let’s do it. Like let’s make it No, no, no. The, the, no, but you need the, the, the bishop is separate from the, the collection of people. That starts the order. I, I understand that.It can be done. ItMalcolm Collins : can be done. But the point I’m making is there. Isn’t that many things that’s actually gonna prevent this from going up. I think a lot of people forget, like when they’re applying to like a venture capital firm or something like that, it is their job to hear pitches. That is their job.Okay. That is, that is, that is why they exist, right?Simone Collins: Yeah. And they, and they want to be invested in businesses that make money. The Catholic Church wants to invest in orders that will make more Catholics. I, I hear you. I guess I’ve just been so frequently disappointed by the lack of engagement with actually effective prenatal as policy that that Catholics have shown.Malcolm Collins : Yeah. I wouldn’tSimone Collins: be surprised [00:42:00] if they were like this. We’re not, they’ve alwaysMalcolm Collins : within the prenatal movement sort of been like. The rogue faction of bad ideas that never seem to work like banning pornography. Like most of the people who say we should ban pornography, tend to come from the Catholic faction of the prenatals movement and banning abortion, banning, you know, any of this stuff.And so, I understand why you feel that way because they’re the group that we most frequently butt heads against, even if it’s, it’s cordially. Like obviously I wouldn’t be pitching how to do this so fervently if I didn’t want Catholics to survive. But yeah. Yeah. Anyway. FunSimone Collins: conversation. ThankMalcolm Collins : you.Love you to DeSimone. Love you too. Gorgeous.Simone Collins: I missed you a lot,Malcolm Collins : but also got a lot of work done, so thanks. Yeah, we didn’t do our morning walk this morning. How am I looking? A little washed out. Very washed out. Yeah. Let’s see.Simone Collins: That’s better. I need to give you a haircut. God,Malcolm Collins : I will, should start every episode [00:43:00] with a, with a little shocker thing. Now, for the Hasan thing, just like a a shock collar button, you push, you gotta shock the dog. I cannot believe how many legs that story has. It is wild.Simone Collins: Truly. Truly though, in. In a world in which there are more pets in the United States than there are children.I mean, you, you can understand why people care so much.Malcolm Collins : Yeah, yeah. It’s not great. So, and we got turned down by Andreessen for our, project, which I was very surprised about because we had two different companies last time and we made it to the final round and we did not make it to the final round this time with a company that I thought was frankly like way more marketable and closer to you know, market ready than the last two products.So, I don’t know what’s going on.Simone Collins: I think it may be a product of them being completely overwhelmed with applications, with vibe [00:44:00] cutting. Now you’re not the only one who now has access to. The ability to build stuff. And already they received so many applications and only accepted it. What? Less than 1%?Isn’t that it? Something like that.Malcolm Collins : Hmm. 0.5%. But that’s not the point. The point is is that we made it like less far in the project, and it’s not like vibe coding didn’t exist last time.Simone Collins: You submitted a pretty deck last time. Maybe they’re a little more shallow than we all thought.Malcolm Collins : Oh, yeah. I didn’t submit a deck.I was just like, check out the site.Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.Malcolm Collins : No,Simone Collins: no, no.Malcolm Collins : You need a pretty deck.Simone Collins: Yeah. That is, if you can’t demonstrate that you jumped through all the hoops, you’re not the, the monkey we thought you were.Malcolm Collins : What Simone wants to have are so we’re building like an autonomous agent which can do things like call you, text you, email you it’ll have its own personality.It’ll be constantly running, whether or not you’re interacting with it, doing its own thing, exploring the web, watching shows and evolving as an [00:45:00] entity, which I think is really cool. I, I don’t know, I don’t know why other people don’t find this. We also have our fab.ai, which is just a chat bot site that I think is a lot.It has a lot more feature Rich than the other chat bot sites out there. And better ais which is finally pretty stable at this point. I mean, there’s still a few things that we’re working on, but it’s otherwise you should, you should check it out. So it’s fun.Simone Collins: Yeah. I, I wanna play with it more.Malcolm Collins : But the autonomous agent feature is the one that I’m working on so much more than trying to work on the stability of the website because I’m just so excited about it.And she wants to have these autonomous agents pitch to VCs themselves. Yeah. I’m like, I think Normie VCs are gonna be offended by that, like having an AI. Pitch to them.Simone Collins: I think it’s a great idea. I think it’s a fantastic idea because a lot of these people are investing in, for example, the future of work.They’re, they’re investing in consumer products. And when they see that this is an AI that will do people’s jobs for them, that will literally pitch like on its own reach out to venture capitalists and b***h to them.Malcolm Collins : Mm-hmm.Simone Collins: As an autonomous person. It, [00:46:00] it, it just, you know, it, it’s, it’s a great way to demonstrate your product and the way that many VCs end up investing in things, and we saw this with previous startups that we ran.If they buy the product, if they get the value of it personally and get excited about it personally, or their kids do, they’re way more likely to invest. Like that’s how Snapchat got investment if memory serves.Malcolm Collins : Yeah.Simone Collins: So. Again, like it, the more, the sooner you can expose them to the actual product in, in a use case scenario.Not like check out my website, use it ‘cause that feels like a homework project, but rather like you are interacting with it in the wild as you would in a world in which it’s pervasive. I think that’s way more compelling. But I’ll have to convince you on that, especially on having not only an autonomous agent do the pitching, but have it be a weird autonomous agent, like a, a goo girl or something.Or likeMalcolm Collins : a well, I have a cat girl. A cat girl. [00:47:00] Well, that’s how you do it these days, right? You know.Simone Collins: Hello Sai. I’m a very sexy cat girl, and I wanna pitch a very nice product to you.Malcolm Collins : Oh my God. Oh my gosh. We will see what I do need my cat girl secretary. Right? It actually does, everyone does work really well.What I’ve realized about ai, and this is actually unlocked something else from you that I’ll unpack in a full episode, is that. As AI interacts over and over again and we have a private episode where we point out about this and sort of the way consciousness works it is sort of the stream of model calls that creates some more complex behavior than individual model calls and individual model calls are to.An ai stream what a single picture is to a movie. Like, it’s just significantly less sort of tangible in, in, in sort of what you’re seeing come out of it. Yeah. The way youSimone Collins: put it for me is, is, is it, it’s like pages in a flip book versus the Yeah. The action of the [00:48:00] flipping.Malcolm Collins : And so, I’ve seen some really interesting behavior come out of this actually behavior that would be very concerning from an AI safety perspective.Is, is very natural to come out of just running the models over and over again with different abilities. And so we’ll see what I can do with this, but we’llSimone Collins: see. Yeah.Malcolm Collins : Anyway.Speaker 3: That’s not Yes, love. Yeah, you love it.You just ask for it. Should I give it to Daddy instead?No, what are you doing? Toasty.Speaker 4: So I,Speaker 5: yes,because I can [00:49:00] just give it all to daddy. Yeah. Should I do that? No. Do you want some tighten? I do. Okay, then sit in a chair. I’ll give you a strong. Straw Uhhuh a purple straw. Love the. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to our deep-dive discussion on the concept of “blood libel” and its modern implications in political discourse. Malcolm and Simon Collins explore the origins, misuse, and consequences of blood libel, drawing connections to current events, statistics, and media narratives. [00:00:00]Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to have a conversation about how blood liable has become incredibly common among the left to the point where I’d argue that. Almost every mainstream leftist politician has engaged in blood libel.Simon Collins: Can you explain what blood libel is to me?I hear people talk about it on the internets, but I don’t. SoMalcolm Collins: blood libel in its traditional context is used to talk about the longstanding anti-Semitic accusation that claims that Jewish rituals require them to murder non-Jews. Often children.Simon Collins: Where did that come from?Malcolm Collins: Well, it came from delusional antisemitism. Largely the point of blood libel is, is it is libel. So like lying falsely accusing somebody of killing. A person of your group,Simon Collins: which is also kind of ironic because weren’t Jews kind of famous for not exposing their young Yeah. I’veMalcolm Collins: mentioned this to Simone, but Tactus a Roman politician complaint.Well, not a politician. He [00:01:00] is the guy who invented strategy. We’re probably gonna name one of our kids after them, but he complained it’s aSimon Collins: good name.Malcolm Collins: That because it was common to expose babies in ancient Rome, that one of the traditions he found particularly barbaric among the Jews is they didn’t expose their babies.But the. The point I’m making here mm-hmm. Is not about that. Okay. The reason why blood libel is bad, the reason why we bring up this horrible and evil thing and we’re like, do not do this as a society. The reason why everyone’s like that’s blood libel is because what blood libel allows to lie about a group to say they are killing people.They, they are not killing, allows and gives moral justification for other people to kill them.Simon Collins: Hmm.Malcolm Collins: That’s what motivates. Groms, that’s what motivates Holocaust. And it’s so wild to me that I will see leftists say, how, why? Why do we not study the Nazis? Why do we not learn about antisemitism of the past?Why do we not learn what led to that? And I’m [00:02:00] like and then they’ll, they’ll then point at Trump like he is. What it looks like to be going down the direction of Nazim. And I’m like, this, this is not what, what do you, what are you talking about? Like this is your side that is doing all of the preparatory steps for Nazim and one of the most common is the renormalization of blood libel.Mm-hmm. And the reason why I am pointing out that it is definitionally. Blood related to killing another group. Mm-hmm. Liable lying about a group.Simon Collins: Mm-hmm.Malcolm Collins: It’s because we on the right need to start calling this out when it happened and happens and not allow people to weasel out of it. Like if somebody in the room says that blacks are disproportionately killed by police, which we’re gonna go over all the stats on this, where they say not transitioning children leads to them dying.And we’ll go over the stats on this. Both of these things are very provably false. Unless you really like, look at the data in a absolutely cross-eyed way. Mm-hmm. , You and, and then you [00:03:00] say, and because of that, I’m allowed to act in this way. This is what we see with the Charlie Kirk shooting.This is what we see in all of this stuff, right? They are doing what the Nazis did. They are feeding their troops with a belief and, and mainstream figures do this. I’m gonna play a figure here of the guy who runs Young Turks. This is Hassan’s wealthy uncle. Both of them super wealthy if you didn’t know thatSpeaker: This brother comes along. I don’t know who man is. Uh, I mean, people say maybe that he’s got a following, but I’ve never heard of him. Right? And his brother and his, , co-conspirator, , Jagermeister or whatever, right? But this guy’s talking about, oh yeah, run over protesters. I don’t mind it. He said, so you don’t mind extreme violence running over somebody with a car?Okay, but you know what? Why don’t we instead arrest them for exercising one of the most fundamental American rights, freedom of speech. The one, remember that you guys all pretended you were in favor of? I know some of ‘em meant it, but apparently a lot of ‘em, including Asman and Jagermeister, didn’t mean it.They, they, they thought, oh, freedom of speech for me, for me to say that maybe you should be murdered or be made my slave, my freedom of speech. Good. And by the way, I wouldn’t cancel that. I don’t mind him saying the terrible things that he says. Now we [00:04:00] know who he is. So, and I’m not afraid of his speech.I’m not afraid that the majority of Americans are gonna look at that and go, oh yeah, I think we should. Instead of having freedom of speech, if anyone exercises freedom of speech, , in a way that I don’t like politically, we should arrest them, take away all their rights, make sure they can’t vote, and then turn them into slaves.No, 98% of Americans are gonna be against that, but as man thinks that’s a great idea. So he’s like, oh yeah, freedom of speech almost. It’s left wingers. How dare they protest our grab back? Let’s take away all their rights. And I don’t know if his followers were like, what an idiot.We set freedom of speech. Dumb . Okay. Or if they’re like, yeah, yeah, we hate freedom of speech now. Now that we’re in charge, let’s turn ‘em into slaves Are 13 people watching that show? Who would like that kind of. Monstrously un-American piece of like that. Who doesn’t believe in America at all?So if you’re watching our show, I would assume you’ve seen some of Smic Gold and you would know that he has never said anything remotely like what this guy is purporting that he has said.And as a aside here, the reason zoomed in on the numbers at the end there is because Esmond [00:05:00] Gold completely schools this guy in terms of numbers. He releases videos every day that get multimillion views. .Malcolm Collins: But here he is talking about Asma Gold.Simon Collins: Okay?Malcolm Collins: Oh, so in the clip you see him saying that Asma Gold. Supports using lethal force on protestors. Okay, so what did Asma Gold actually say? Asma Gold said if somebody attacks a law enforcement officer with a lethal object, that the law enforcement officer has the right to use lethal force in response.He never said attacking like protestors cartilage, but he is saying that when a protestor uses lethal force, the police have an opportunity to use lethal force in response. And yet he’s running the number one like mainstream democratic podcast. And of course Hassan does this sort of stuff all the time.And he runs the number one democratic livestream and they’re never called out for this. And we need to, like, every time they sit down, we need to [00:06:00] bring up you. Committed blood libel. You are pedaling in lies and conspiracy theories that get people killed and you need to recant them. Okay. And I’ve recently had an opportunity of having to force a journalist to do this.Right. I was just like that. That is a lie and you are lying and you can’t do that anymore. This is 2025. Mm-hmm. And I think it getting mad at them and putting them on the back foot in the way the wokes used to do to us is absolutely critical because they used to do this whole, I’m have the moral high ground, don’t you know, that kills people, don’t you know?And now you just remember your statistics and you can come out and be like, you are lying and people have died as a result of those exact lies. And you need to take responsibility for the death that you are lying leads to. And you should not be platformed until you apologize for lying to people [00:07:00] in a way that leads to minority populations dealing with more victimization.For a quick example of what I mean here, I thought we’ll get into more. Who suffers when you remove police from black neighborhoods? Oh, yes, the communities.. That’s why see black communities being much more against defund police than white communities.Malcolm Collins: So before we go further here because I wanna get into the, the black cop statistic that they always use in their blood libel and the trans statistic they use in their blood libel. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts here?Simon Collins: I wanna hear you debunk things, but you’re absolutely right. I just had never contextualized it as that.And I think that you’re right. That. One of the most important first steps in combating it is calling it out when you see it. So I’m glad you’re bringing this up. Yeah.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And when they say X person is a Nazi, you take them aside and you’re like, how? Exactly how you, you are on the side that attacks Jewish students on site in college campuses.You are of the side who wants to divide us by our [00:08:00] ethnic group because he is enforcing the law equally regardless of people’s ethnicity. They’re like, he’s arresting people in front of their children. Does having your children in front of you make you immune to the law? Like what are you talking about?But anyway, to continue here, like it would, it would be a horrible precedent if we said, oh you could gimme a crime. Just have kids. And then, because then criminals are gonna have a bunch of kids so that they can’t get arrested. Like, what? Yeah, what are you?Simon Collins: It’s just going to lead to a bunch of mistreatment of young people, not, not good.Malcolm Collins: What are terrible precedent to set. But anyway, continue. Black Americans make up. About 13% of the US population would account to 25 to 26% of fatal police shootings. Now. You’re gonna hear that and you’re like, wow, that does sound like a disproportionate amount of police shootings or black people. Now let’s go over some other stacks that may contextualize that.Simon Collins: Okay.Malcolm Collins: So, 25 to 26% of fatal police shootings are black people. Okay? If we use the FBI uniform crime reporting UCR data for [00:09:00] 2023, the murder rate was 40.8%. Black blacks are. Oh, let’s say 25.5% of the fatal shootings by police, but they make up over 40% of murderers. Okay. And keep in mind it’s been higher in previous years getting up to 56.3% in one year.Simon Collins: Hmm.Malcolm Collins: So. Let’s, let’s, okay. You’re like, okay, well, you know, it, it, it, it, it just some murders, or maybe the murders are, are, are fluctuating or inaccurate. So let’s, let’s go to the UN UCR data on other things. What percent of robberies are done by black people? Okay. Remember, 25% of police shootings,Simon Collins: okay?Malcolm Collins: 51.3%.Simon Collins: Oh. No aggravated assaults.Malcolm Collins: 33.2%. No, no,Simon Collins: no, no, no.Malcolm Collins: So you’re, you’re getting 40% of murders, 50 over 50% of [00:10:00] robberies, over 30% of aggravated assaults, and 25.5% of police shootings.Simon Collins: Oh, bad, bad look. So very bad. When people,Malcolm Collins: and, and we’re gonna go over people died horrible deaths. During Black Lives Matter, we’ll get over people who were burned alive.We’ll go over all sorts of people were burned alive. Yeah. They burned a guy alive in his shop locking him inside and lighting it on fire. They said, I know. Oh, knowingly not. They said not knowingly. But this, when, when Tim Waltz was saying, I love the smell of those businesses burning, which by the way were most, that was his wife minority who openedSimon Collins: the window to smell right.She’sMalcolm Collins: smelling people’s burning bodies. Dying over a lie that leftists used during an election cycle to attempt to win. Okay. And what should have been getting to people is that if you look at the, the this, this, I’ll just go into this here. Yeah. This was a death of Oscar Lee Scott Jr. A 30-year-old man whose body was found in the rubble of a burned out pawn shop Maxxi Pond in Minneapolis in [00:11:00] 2020.Oh God. So, yeah he, he slowly died from injuries and smoke inhalation as the building collapsed. And there was around 19 to 25 death nationwide due to them. For some examples of this, you had David Dorn, a 77-year-old black. Police captain who was shot and killed trying to protect a pawn shot from looters in St.Louis, Missouri. You had Italian Marie Kelly, a 22-year-old woman who was fatally shot on March 31st while leaving a protest. And getting caught in unrelated gunfire. And, and keep in mind, it isn’t just me saying actually, if you look at the statistics, blacks are not disproportionately killed by police.If you, if you apply any credulity to this, right? And, and keep in mind even the stated goals of Black Lives Matter are not what black communities want. Like they want to defund the police, and yet the majority of black Americans do not want defunded police or less police presence in their communities because they’re the ones who get.Victimized by this higher rate of crime. Yeah. [00:12:00] Right. Like their communities, like this crime. When I talk about these higher black crime rates, blacks are the vast majority of victims of these higher crime rates. It was black businesses that were burned down, black and Hispanic businesses that were the majority of the businesses that were burned down during these protests.Yeah. The left lies to people in ways that damage the property and neighborhoods that they say that they are protecting. They do not. And, and, and I point out here, this is not just about this stuff. You look at like, oh, well, we need more money for schools. Recently, Mississippi has the highest black use literacy rate in the country, very conserved Mississippi.Simon Collins: Wow. Okay.Malcolm Collins: And they, they’ve likely got the best education program in the world and they did it. We might do a full episode on this because it’s really fascinating. I’d like to, it wasn’t by injecting a bunch of more money into schools. Actually they have one of the lowest rates of, of school money.But what they did is they said kids aren’t allowed to graduate the third grade until they can read at a certain level. They just retake this, the grade every year. They were warned that this is happening. SoSimon Collins: Child left behind.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Literally. [00:13:00] We will leave you behind the dump, likeSimon Collins: Simone’s for context.Like forever ago, president George W. Bush introduced this initiative in US public schools called No Child Left Behind, which spoiler alert didn’t work out so well in improving student outcomes. Focusing on the lowest common denominator is notMalcolm Collins: a good idea. It turns outSimon Collins: ideal. Yeah.Malcolm Collins: And not letting people feel shame and embarrassment for failing is not good.MmSimon Collins: mmMalcolm Collins: Having to repeat a grade is great motivation to learn. Your stuff. So I was point out at her college that she went to undergrad at gw. They now have a remedial mandatory reading course. Well,Simon Collins: when I went, I, I went to college from 20 2006 to 2010 and my, every freshman that went through the George Washington University had to take a.Remedial writing class upon matriculating, which is, so jMalcolm Collins: just you by the way, you understand how different these rates are in Mississippi. The black reading rate is now over 50% for fourth grade. That’s awesome. That is awesome. And in California [00:14:00] it’s around 25%?Simon Collins: Yeah. I mean, I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t say awesome when I still, you know, you want it to be.Higher, 98% I’m point out here isMalcolm Collins: that dims don’t actually care about these populations. And, and we pointed this study out a million times, but it is useful to know is that the income gaps between blacks and, and whites and Hispanics is significantly smaller in Republican districts than it is in Democrat districts.They just do not care. It is a complete fraud. So, Royal Friars 2016 Harvard study. So this is a Harvard study, okay. Trusts the science guys, an empirical analysis of racial differences in police use of force. Analyze over a hundred and. Sorry. 1,300 officer involved shootings from Tim, major US police departments with data from blah, blah, blah.Black individuals were more likely to be involved in police shootings, but after controlling for contextual factors, civilian demographics encountered demographics like time of day and suspect resistance officer details, and whether a weapon was present. No racial differences were found in the likelihood of being shot in some.[00:15:00] Specifications black individuals were 23.5 to 27% less likely to be shot than non-black, non-Hispanic individuals. So, so when you make corrections, black individuals are 23.5 to 27.4, less likely to be shot than other arrested groups. If, if you’re gonna commit a, a lethal crime and you’re controlling for, for everything else, which, which you obviously are, because you’re doing that through committing the crime, you should be in blackface.That’ll like protect bullets flying at you apparently. So like, that’s, that is wild. So, then there’s Joseph Rios 2019 study, which is really interesting. It was in PNS PNAS it was later. Retracted due to public misuse. They said although the DA data integrity wasn’t questioned, so the data’s fine.They just do, oh, it’s justSimon Collins: the public can’t handle the truth, is what they’re saying.Mm-hmm.Public misuse, man. It said,Malcolm Collins: However, when they modeled against country level violent crime rates by race as proxy, for example, high risk police encounters, there was no evidence of anti-black disparity. The, [00:16:00] the odds of a black civilian being fatally shot relative to white was significantly lower odd.0.13. White officers were not more likely to shoot civilians than non-white officers. So again, this is not a, a white officer problem or a problem of racism if the black cops are doing it just as much. And then there’s Cesario AL’S 2020 study considering Violence Against Police by Citizen Race and Ethnicity.This is data from the Washington Post fatal shootings, Texas and California. Benchmarks against violence towards police, feist killings of officers assaults with firearms and knives from FBI, CIOCA da. Mm-hmm. Nationally in Texas, black individuals were not more likely than white individuals to be fatally shot.It’s just. Not true,Simon Collins: I think. Okay. So if I were someone on the left trying to respond to what you just said, I would say, well, yeah, but they are subject to systemic racism, which puts them disproportionately in positions where they’re committing [00:17:00] crimes that are putting them in the line of fire. Even though when they do commit those crimes, they’re less likely to actually get shot.Malcolm Collins: I, I think, that’s like a, a dumb argument for a few reasons. First dumb reason is, that why is it then that blacks in Republican districts are, presumably they are subject to more systemic racism? Are,. Have better economic conditions relative to white populations than in democratic de democratic districts.Right? To me, that would indicate that what whatever is causing these disparities is directly tied to democratic policy. And we actually see this in iq measured iq. I’m not saying that there’s a genetic difference in iq, but there is. Blacks do score lower on tests in the United States. And you could say, well, this is due to you know, discrimination.And it’s like, but then why are the scores closer, which they are. In Republican held districts than in Democrat held districts. Why, why, if it [00:18:00] is this, this apparent like Republican, systemic racist system, why is it that that seems to help them and whatever you do seems to hurt them, right? I, I think that that just completely blows.This narrative out of the water. I think the better argument, if I was gonna argue from my opponent’s sideSimon Collins: mm-hmm.Malcolm Collins: Would be to say, well, all of the statistics around blacks committing murder more and blacks committing aggravated assault more is actually not that blacks actually do it more, it’s that they are more likely to be convicted due to racism.And they are more likely to be investigated by the police and chased by the police due to racism. Mm-hmm. Two, my, my, my answer to this is Okay that that could be possible, but I’d ask you to use your common sense around what types of murders police actually care about. And I, I’m even, I’m even saying, let’s, let’s put our racist hats on here.Let’s put our, the police are racist monsters, hats. Okay. Police racist monster hat on. [00:19:00] Alright. Who do they care about? They care about white women. I’ll try to find one of the themes. White woman shot,Speaker 3: White woman in trouble.Malcolm Collins: You know, to try to, you know, get the police out. But, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, they, they care about wealthy people being shot.Those are the, it’s the classicSimon Collins: trope. Yes.Malcolm Collins: Those are the murders that they spend more time investigating. Okay. So, there is a correlation between wealth and race in this country. And, and, and there is a likely a correlation between like, and so who’s killing, who’s killing white people? White people kill white people who kills black people.Black people kill black people. So you go to the ghetto, somebody walks over and gets shot. Do you really think that that crime is gonna be given as much attention by the police department as somebody in a white suburb being shot? Really? Really? You think that that crime’s getting the same amount of attention?If anything, I would argue these statistics are likely well under, even if [00:20:00] you account for racism becauseIan, stop your giggling.So happy here and say hi. And then you have to go. Do you wanna come in and say hi to the fans? Come in quickly and then you have to go and you only get your computer if you’re good. Okay. So, okay. Do you wanna say hi? Yeah.Simon Collins: Hi. Can you tell them to like, and and subscribe? Yeah, go ahead.Malcolm Collins: TheyOctavian Collins: can subscribe.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Mm. Okay. And do you love mom and dad?Octavian Collins: Yeah. If the, if the one subscribe, theyMalcolm Collins: Okay. Okay.Octavian Collins: Okay. And if you like a subscribe, you get to see me all. And of the other videos, one that make a, and did the ferryMalcolm Collins: come this morning? Could you show them your missing tooth?Octavian Collins: Oh open your mouth. It a fairy. Yeah, right here.You see [00:21:00] it feel kind of, so you can see. What did she hideMalcolm Collins: under your pillow?Octavian Collins: He hide under my pillow. What about with Pikachu on it and it was through a fruit laps.Malcolm Collins: How do you think she got it under your pillow without you waking up? That must have been incredibly difficult.Octavian Collins: The tooth fairy might be invisible or something.Malcolm Collins: Okay, go. And if you come back, you don’t get your computer tonight. Close the doors. Okay. Okay. I love that kid. That is, that I, I do too. But that is one of the hardest traditions to, to parental scams.Simon Collins: I do notMalcolm Collins: Who, who came up with the under the pillow thing?Simon Collins: Yeah. It’s not just you have to sneak into the bedroom.It’s not just you have to like, make it past the room. It is all the way to their beds. Do you, you guys don’t realize how light of sleepers our kids are. Our son Torsten is just literally up all night. I, I wake up in the middle of the night. I pull up the camera feed. He’s just walking around talking to himself.I mean, he just doesn’t sleep. What are we gonna do when his teeth start falling [00:22:00] out?Malcolm Collins: Right. But the, the point I was making is the problem is, is even if you assume racism and you assume the most racist of police departments, you need to offset the racism of extra black convictions with the racism of not paying nearly as much attention to black deaths.Um mm-hmm. Which, if you’re being practical, almost certainly outweighs the conviction racism. Which almost certainly then. Again, weight statistics,Simon Collins: assortative mating and assortative killing.Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, it, it’s a, it, it’s a big deal that this lie became so common, right? Like it’s a very, very, very big deal because it led to a lot of deaths and a lot of stupid decisions that led to even more death.Like Portland’s insane idea to decriminalize like all drugs, then let it Portland with Seattle’s. I, I forgot one of those states. No, it was Portland. It turned it into this like hellhole where people were dying on the streets all the time. I think theySimon Collins: reversed that decision though. Yeah, theyMalcolm Collins: did [00:23:00] because people dying on the streets all the time.People were like, oh, I don’t like stepping over dead bodies on my way to work every day. This was not a good idea. Not ideal. But, and it, and it, if you wanna be like, oh, how is it that blacks do better under Republican health districts? Well, maybe because we don’t do things like normalized fentanyl.Okay. Like there, there is a, there is a reason that, that people suffer under democratic policies. Right? There’s a reason why Mississippi has these great reading rates, but let’s go to the next blood libel. That is so common. By the way, do you have any counter arguments or pushback that you would give here?Simon Collins: No. I, I don’t. Aside from the but systemic racism argument, I, I don’t really, I mean, I guess, I, I would say if I were on the opposing side. That there is more black on black crime because again, black people in the United States are subject to systemic disadvantage and therefore more likely to be impoverished and therefore my [00:24:00] more likely to be drawn into gang violence and crime and levels of stress that compromise their ability to.Think straight and make them extra stressed and extra likely to react to things violently because, and everyone does when they’re insecure in terms of food and housing.Yeah.What about that? That counts, right? I think that’s fairly.Malcolm Collins: The problem is even when you control, so if we’re talking about like higher crime rates mm-hmm.And this is well studied as well. Even when you control for income black crime rates are way higher than than other asset groups in the United States. Now we can, well, yeah. I guessSimon Collins: the argument I, I would’ve made as, as someone in opposition about the Republican districts is what, they’re probably also likely more wealthy and less urban, and you’re just going to get lower levels of crime and higher levels of.In general income or education in like sub wealthy suburban areas?Malcolm Collins: Sorry, what was the last thing you said [00:25:00] there?Simon Collins: You’re going to get lower levels of crime and higher levels of income in wealthy suburban areas. And also the places that are impoverished. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Are more likelyMalcolm Collins: to be just white?Wait. Simone. Simone. Republican districts are poorer on average, I’m pretty sure. Yeah, but ISimon Collins: think so. I think if we looked at it. The Republican districts that are racially mixed are probably higher income, and the republican districts that are impoverished are mostly white. If we were to look at the data,Malcolm Collins: I could maybe see this argument.I don’t know. To me it, this argument seems pretty trying. I’mSimon Collins: just trying to steal, man, this, I mean, this isn’t my inborn argument here. I’m trying to,Malcolm Collins: well, I know. I, this is the thing, right? Like. People begin to engage in violence for reasons, right? And you can attempt to address those reasons.Mm-hmm. And I think that the ways that Democrats try to address or [00:26:00] not address those reasons just ignore the problem. They’re like, well, yeah. I mean, that’sSimon Collins: the thing is, is, is if food and housing insecurity are causing these things putting people into cycles of poverty and food insecurity and housing insecurity, by not.Empowering them to get their own jobs, but rather giving them the bare minimum they need to scrape by. And then occasionally having that bottom out or disappear or not work is only going to entrench them in this cycle. And, and it makes things worse. I totally agree with you on that.Malcolm Collins: So, the other blood libel that is incredibly common on the left, and now they point out with the gold video, they’ll, they’ll point this out about everything.Everyone saying, Charlie Kirk like, encouraged the killing of X population or Y population. There was a lie going around that he encouraged the killing of gay people. RightSpeaker 4: claiming that, uh, you know, queer people are defective and dangerous. And, and should be, uh, be executed. I mean, that’s sort of polarizing language that contributes to this environment, uh, this loss of civility and, and encourages violence directed towards the enemy, whatever the stripe, and we [00:27:00] are seeing this from, from both sides.Malcolm Collins: . And he was quoting derisively, somebody else specifically pointing out when somebody was like, oh, the Bible’s all like love and whatever.Yeah. And he’s like, well, the BibleSimon Collins: also said, you know, throw gay people off roofs or something, andMalcolm Collins: it was a stone. Gay people. Yeah. And what he was pointing out there is that the Bible isn’t all sunshines and kittens and everything like that. He was not saying that you should stone gay people, right?Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He was saying that these people. Want to create this fictionalized God is love stuff. You know, that, that, that’s, that, that maybe what you say, but like Engage was reality, right? Yeah. Engage was the book as it exists in the history as it exists, which is frankly a really based thing to say as a Christian, right?Yeah. So what I’m pointing out here is that people will do this, whether it’s Toma Gold or him or anyone else. Everywhere. And I think we on the right need to be way more ferocious on calling out blood libel. And it is, this is a great thing about using the term blood libel. Blood libel doesn’t say Jewish blood libel.[00:28:00]Right? Like the way the term is constructed is very clear in its meaning. It is lying libel. Mm-hmm. About a group killing another group. Yeah. What. Plain and simple.Simon Collins: Very, very straightforward. And it’s badMalcolm Collins: to do it to Jewish people to say that Jewish people kill other people in rituals that they do not have, just as it is bad to do it to Charlie Kirk because it is being done with the same motivation, the same intent, well, the same desired outcome.It’s toSimon Collins: create Yeah. Your, your, or to frame a. Dislike group as inhuman and monstrous in the end.I had also note here that it would be pretty good for Jews as well if a large political faction started caring about how bad blood libel was again, and applied that not just to themselves, but to any group that was being hit with blood libel.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And so I’ll be quicker on the trans stuff because we go over this so often. UK banned puberty blockers in youth. The numbers. So basically we have a whole country of the national experiment, have not statistically [00:29:00] risen.The numbers of unliving have not statistically risen. We found out after Travis stock was shut down, that they had done a study on what, how puberty blockers relate to wanting to unli yourself and self-harm. And it turned out that it increased it. So it is literally them. That are leading to the deaths of children.But they hid those numbers because and they were forced to publish them by, by court because the court was like you can’t hide this data, right? Like, this is very important that the public knows this. And even within the United States when they were arguing before the Supreme Court, the first trans lawyer chase, Strang, Gio, to ever argue before the Supreme Court had to say, when pushed on, is there any.Evidence for this. He said, quote, there is no evidence that gender affirming treatments reduce. The S word. Mm. He responded, clarifying and, and, and he, and he tried to say just, you know, how he tried to wease a out of it, which I think is also important. Mm-hmm. He said, well, what I’m referring to is there is no evidence in some, [00:30:00] is that the studies and the treatment reduces completed s word.And the reason for that is completed as thankfully. Oh my gosh. Wait. No, he’sSimon Collins: just, so Wait. Youth gender transition just makes you too dumb to actually. Finish the job.Malcolm Collins: You should watch your video on, on how it likely lowers IQ pretty severely. Oh my God. And the main study used to argue it doesn’t, was literally done by the head of the wpath.They can’t evenSimon Collins: do it right now.Malcolm Collins: Rare, but that’s not what we would arguing here. But, but what’s important about this because I actually think that this is, this is really important, so. If what we are seeing is that statistically speaking, the rate of unliving does not go up after, after transition, right?But trans people who are not allowed to transition report a higher rate of wanting to, it means that this report is. A lie. They are doing that thing where you, you’re, you’re like, I’m gonna kill myself if you don’t do X. Yeah. [00:31:00] IfSimon Collins: you, if you leave me, I’ll do it. Yeah.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. They’re doing that to their parents, to society.Mm-hmm. And they know they don’t mean it, they’re just acting like actual psychopaths.Simon Collins: Yeah. And well, there are not even psychopaths. I mean, I, I, I can relate to this as. Someone who’s become hyper fixated on things. Sometimes you just get to this point where you’re like, I, I, I have to have this thing. It is the only thing that matters. I must have it. And if I don’t have it, I would rather not exist.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I can seeSimon Collins: that. So, yeah, I, I don’t,Malcolm Collins: but, but I mean, the, the, the normalization of that desire is, part of the problem here. The, the, the, the, the, well, I mean, that’s why we have a different perspective than them on whether or not the Dutch protocol is the right treatment for gender dysphoria. Hmm.And, and I think that as a society we’re getting closer and closer. They’re being like, okay. No, but I think that we need to be just like a lot louder on this stuff when somebody comes at you and they say. Or you hear, because [00:32:00] this is where it’s much more likely to be. You as a person are not gonna deal with people saying this sort of thing.They’re going to say it about somebody else. They’re gonna say it about an influencer, they’re gonna say it about Charlie Kirk. They’re gonna say, and, and for so long on the right, it was just normal to not bite their head off and be like, that is a lie. And it’s the exact type of lie that got him killed.Hmm. And it is a lie that you are knowing and, and not a lie. Sorry, we can’t use the word lie. That is blood libel and it is the exact blood libel that got him killed.Simon Collins: Mm-hmm.Malcolm Collins: And blood libel is called, again, blood libel because you are lying about another group, murdering a group in order to dehumanize him with the goal of stripping.And, and we’ve seen that there was this great thing in California recently where one of the ladies running for governor. With asked by a reporter who she then assaultsSpeaker 6: How would I need them in order to win, man? Well, unless you think you’re gonna get 60% of the vote, you think you’ll get 60 per all. Everybody who did not vote for Trump will vote for you. That’s what what you’re saying. In a general election, yes. If it is me versus [00:33:00] a Republican, I think that I will win The people who did not vote for Trump, what if it’s you versus another Democrat?I don’t intend that to be the case. So how do you not intend that to be the case? Well to those voters. Okay, so, so you, I don’t wanna keep doing this, I’m gonna call it. Okay, thank you. You’re not going to do the interview with us? Nope. Not like this. I’m not, not with seven follow ups to every single question you ask.Every other candidate has answered our follow-ups. I don’t care. I don’t care.Malcolm Collins: her numbers have dropped, thankfully because she has a long history of this. She, she threw boiling water on her husband, boiling potatoes,Simon Collins: scalding mashed potatoes, I think.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So anyway, really horrifying woman who somehow was in the lead to be the democratic governor of Sanford, not anymore California. Yeah. But they were just asking her like, well, what about the people who voted for Trump? Like, what are you gonna do for them? And she’s like, I don’t need that.Like basically they don’t matter to me. Yeah. And they, they are not relevant as human beings to me. Like, I don’t actually serve them. They are [00:34:00] subhuman. And you see this so commonly throughout parts of the left at this point. And this is a mindset that they’ve been able to develop because it has become normalized to use blood libel in their community without pushing back.And I think we need to say we push back at this point going forward. We need to, and I, and I say this and you, Simone, you hear this as somebody who’s probably more even minded than me. You’d argue that probably every mainstream democratic political figure has used blood level. Or would you say that like it is just a totally normal thing to do on the left to say he’s killing X?Simon Collins: I think that discounts the really high number of actually fairly normal, high, highly localized state and local politicians in the United States, but mainstream politicians, I think are more likely to be tied into these, these falsities.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I think that it’s, it’s, it’s good to be able to grab words that they know why they shouldn’t do it.And if they’re [00:35:00] like, well, don’t use that term that that’s bad because of how it hurt the Jewish people gonna be like, okay, break it down for me. Break it down for me. Why is blood libel bad? Because it is used to dehumanize other populations so that violence can be committed against them by lying about them killing people.That is why what we were supposed to learn from that we apparently haven’t learned. Okay. What we were supposed to learn from the stigmatization of that. And you’re like, well, you know, but, but Jews, but Jews, no, no, no, no. And Jews will tell you this today, if they’re like the sane one, it’s not the far progressive, like Wilkie ones Jews shouldn’t be treated as different than other populations.This leads to negative things, right? If something is bad to do to Jews, it’s bad to do to everyone.Simon Collins: Jews don’t get someMalcolm Collins: special list of, well, you can’t do this to Jews, but you can do it to anyone else. And it’s fine. You know, we learn these things about Jewish [00:36:00] populations because they are relevant to all populations.Yeah. And what I actually really like about this and, and pulling out this idea here because it, it can turn on its head the very way that they used to be able to say to us, your actions are leading to death. And they were lying. Whether it’s around police officers killing black people disproportionately or whether it’s around you know, gender transition leading, leading to death.And they’re like, you’re killing kids by doing this. You’re doing, you know, you’re, you’re killing people by doing this. You’re ex is, we now get to pull the exact Uno reverse card. Actually, that very thing that you just did, that you just said to me leads to people dying. And is a lie. Oh, and I can go over the data with you or, or you can admit that you just don’t care.Your goal is to dehumanize your political opponents so that they will be killed or otherwise stripped of their rights.Simon Collins: Mm. See you like, you also enjoy the richness of [00:37:00] this comparison because it once again points out the hypocrisy of a major progressive. Strategic ideological point. TheyMalcolm Collins: just said I shouldn’t be saying something because it could lead to people dying.And now I’m saying, but provably what you are saying can lead to people dying and is not true.Simon Collins: Mm.Malcolm Collins: So if you believe that because it could lead to people dying, means that I should be shamed for saying it and should stop saying it, then you need to live by your own logic and do the same now that you are familiar with the data that had been hidden from you.Simon Collins: Yeah. Oof. Yeah. No, that’s, it’s, it’s rich. It’s rich, it’s hypocritical. It’s, it’s it’s a bad look and yeah, I can get why you, you like putting it out. Here’s our scrunchie, scrunchie man, by the way.Malcolm Collins: And I’d love to see it become normalized and I think that it’s something that, and, and, and by the way, if anyway, it’s like, well, as a Jew I find it offensive.You say [00:38:00] that, and I say, well, as a non-Jew, I find it offensive that you think that Jews should get some sort of different treatment, that something’s unethical when it’s done to Jews, but not to anyone else.Simon Collins: Mm-hmm.Malcolm Collins: You know what, what do keep saying as a Jew, you don’t, sorry. As a non-Jew, I’m saying, you shouldn’t be dehumanizing me.You shouldn’t say that. I deserve less rights than you.Simon Collins: Yeah, and I mean, we, we’ve also had people recently sent to us like, Maui protests and, and Mori protests in New Zealand whereMalcolm Collins: yelling at, they’re, they’re specificallySimon Collins: basically arguing for continued discrimination because they want to continue to have sort of different and special rights.So yeah, I mean, it’s. It’s, it’s difficult to have groups that say that they advocate for equality when they also distinctly are fighting for differential or separate treatment. But we have a lot of that.Yeah. [00:39:00]But again I know you hate this, but it just comes back to, for me, external versus internal locus of control or lo loci, loci of control.That, that they think that it is equal. To have quotas and minimums and special treatment because external factors render them unequal. Whereas the different internal locus of control frame of mind is such that yes, we’re all born unequal, but we should be given equal opportunity. And that doesn’t mean favoring one group or giving one group privileges.It means. Making an open playing field and, and I complicatedMalcolm Collins: the black community things that you’re talking about. If they’re like, well, why are blacks still in poverty? You know, they had everything start taken from them. They started with nothing. As I always point out, Japanese Americans had everything taken for them much more recently.Simon Collins: Mm-hmm.Malcolm Collins: During the internment and now out earn white people. So how are they out earning white?Simon Collins: Hmm.Malcolm Collins: Right? Like, no. No. How are they out earning white people? If, [00:40:00] if it turns out that you can just take everything from a group and then they’re never gonna be able to get back up? Like how is it that the Japanese facing more recent discrimination are out earning white?And I’m not saying that they’re earning the same as white people today. I’m not saying they’re earning less. I’m saying how are they outearning white people today? It’s because cultural differences lead to differences in outcomes. Yeah. Yes. Historic discrimination can play a role in black sorry. And Japanese would be even more wealthy if they hadn’t experienced that discrimination.But it is overcomeable.Simon Collins: Yeah, absolutely. No, it’s, it’s, it’s a, I like the contextualization. I think I’ll be using it. I appreciate your explaining blood label to me in the first place, because I just haven’t been. Curious enough team, a lot of people are gonna readMalcolm Collins: about that. Like when you point about being racist against white people, you can’t use blood libel against white people and then you just have to explain what the word means.And definitionally yes you can. And that’s why we learned not to do this anyway. Love you Simone [00:41:00] for dinner tonight. I’d love some reang.Simon Collins: Okay. Actually, I think I might’ve thought some out there was there was curry in the freezer that was like, I think this is rending. Okay. So can I put that over rice for you after?Sure. Whatever it is, I’ll have it. Okay, thanks. Yeah. ‘cause I thought it out and I wanna simmer it and, obviously if it’s really bad, it’s really fast for me to make my rendering. So either way, you’ll get something delicious tonightMalcolm Collins: and feel free to simmer it in coconut milk because I think that rendering often needs more, or olive oil.Simon Collins: I’m not sure if it’s rendering though. So it depends on how, how viscous it is. Okay. If it’s, if it’s really dry, sure, I’ll add coconut milk or whatever seems to be most appropriate given whatever it turns out to be. I now I’m better at labeling things in the freezer, but I was not for a spell, so paying the price.Alright, howMalcolm Collins: can I help you tonight?Simon Collins: Carry Ian down to the kitchen for me.Malcolm Collins: All will do. Thank you. ISimon Collins: love you.Malcolm Collins: Love you too.Speaker 8: So what are we looking at? Octavian? [00:42:00] Um, they’re looking at your turtle. So they have homes. I heard that these are dinosaur turtles. Who, where did you hear that? I heard that when I was a baby. I don’t think I ever told you that. So. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Based Camp, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the historic end of the Israel and Gaza war, exploring the surprising role Donald Trump played in brokering peace. The discussion covers the political fallout for both the left and right, the shifting narratives in Western media, and the broader implications for Israel, Gaza, and global politics. The Collinses examine the reactions from activists, the future of leftist causes, and the complex cultural and demographic dynamics shaping the region. The episode also touches on the role of AI, the future of capitalism, and the evolving landscape of social and political movements. Stay tuned for a satirical musical finale imagining Gaza as the “new Riviera” in a post-war world. Episode Transcript:Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Well, okay, so look at what this does for the left. So they’re not gonna have this in the next election cycle. It’s like an issue they can talk about. Because, you know, Trump saved Gaza so they don’t have this in the next election cycle.They don’t have the trans stuff anymore. Like, that’s mostly blown up. , Like when I see blue sky turning against an issue, I’m like, okay, like this is really culturally over at this point. The environmentalist grift, everybody sort of forgot about that. Like I haven’t heard much environmentalist. Well, I mean, the factSimone Collins: that even Greta Thunberg has switched from the environment to Gaza is I think indicative of the scales really tipping and people just having dropped itDare you. How dare you..Simone Collins: Y. Yeah. I mean, global poverty could be a thing again. Are they gonna make global poverty a thing again? Well, not, no, no, no. Not global poverty. An end to capitalism.Would you like to know more?Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. Today we have a peace in the Middle East and [00:01:00] Trump was largely responsible for this. And interestingly, a lot of leftist figures who have been using this as a core of their platform are very confused about what to do next. Because they cannot praise Trump for what he did.No, in a deal that is shockingly pro Hamas. And, and I’m gonna talk about the deal. I’m gonna talk about what it means for the region. I’m going to talk about just how much Trump, because it really was all down to Trump. There is peace. The war ended because of Trump. And people point out that Biden had access to all of the tools that Trump used.He just refused to use it. Hmm. And he used a lot of tools that we talked about, like the swinging being like, oh, you know, the Riviera and Gaza and like, you know, saying, oh, I don’t care. We’ll cut an aid to the region and stuff like that. Because you have to be willing to have a negotiating position to get to an outcome, right?You, you can’t go in and be like, okay, I’m gonna come to the most middle ground possible, because in both sides. Choose extreme [00:02:00] positions. Yeah. So when each side thinks you’re on the other side, side, you could have a more actual negotiation. But we’ll talk about a lot of leftists who seem genuinely upset that the war is over.I wanna talk about what is next for Israel and the Jews. And, and for those who don’t think that this was downstream of Trump. Here’s an ai. So I tried to ask the question in like an unbiased way. Like, was this really all Trump? Like Trump keeps claiming. And the AI said high contingency on Trump. His quote, unquote, insistence and willingness to exert us leverage EEG arms to Israel Sanctions on Iran and direct engagement were credited with breaking the stalemate.Critics prior Biden administration argue Biden had similar tools, but chose not to use them aggressively. Perhaps due to domestic politics or differing priorities. Trump’s personal style building on relationships from his first term, Abraham Accords and treating leaders like Erdowan as allies. And he did do this.The leftist always treated Erdogan like he was some sort of desperate outsider. And so why would [00:03:00] he work with him? But Erdogan as we’ll learn actually has a very friendly relationship with Trump using words like one tough cookie to describe him. That’s a very endearing, but like he’s actually bringing it all to a negotiation term.And he was really key in pressuring Hamas to accept the deal. Because keep in mind, from the position of Hamas and the Israeli hardliners, neither of them wants us. The reason why Hamas doesn’t want this is because they use this to stay in power. Like one of the key goals of the deal for everyone, because the Egyptians are, are staying there and building military, there is the deconstruction of Hamas, right?Right. So they don’t want to accept this deal. But obviously you cannot have a group that’s whole purpose is the eradication of the Jews right next to Israel. Right? So like. There wasn’t gonna be a piece deal unless that was part of it and they got Hamas to accept this.Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay. Well, and I was also just thinking, I mean, ‘cause we’re constantly talking about ai, how Israel and Gaza are a really great,Malcolm Collins: Hey Octavian, do you know, oh, sorry. This is Wizzing, his, [00:04:00] his AI friend that he’s talking to. I can’t hear you by the way, if you’re talking,Simone Collins: Hey, hooked. Are you talking, Simone? Yeah. Sorry. Can you hear me now? Yeah, IMalcolm Collins: can hear you.Simone Collins: I was just thinking too about how Israel and Gaza can be seen as kind of an allegory to AI and people who think that AI cannot exist safely.Yes. You’re, you’re basically obligating. Each group to want the complete destruction of the other group. And it’s one of these terrible situations that’s extremely hard to deescalate. So the, the fact that we may be moving toward that is really notable.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I’ve often used the tri gun, spider and butterfly analogy to describe the situation that Israel is inSpeaker 6: . You wanted to save the butterfly, right? I didn’t want to kill the spider. Unless the spider caught the butterfly, it would die anyway. You can’t save both, don’t you know that?Speaker 5: It’s not right to make that choice so easily. . BUtSpeaker 6: [00:05:00] I’m not wrong about this, Rem. And what would you have rather had us do, just stand and think about it? In the meantime, while we do that, the spider eats the butterflyMalcolm Collins: .The gist being is that if a group. Is solely dedicated and its continued existence is solely dedicated on the destruction of another group. You can’t save both of those groups. You have to change the nature of one group, like genetically edit it to be a herbivore. Yeah. Or likeSimone Collins: remove Hamas,Malcolm Collins: right?Yeah. But that doesn’t mean necessarily remove all the people of the region. But we’ll talk about that in just a second. I’d also note here that everyone’s like, oh, Trump’s so mad about losing the Nobel Peace Prize. But the reality is, is no sane person thought he was going to win that prize. No. But I don’t know if you’ve seen what the outcome was of that.But the, the woman who did win the prize dedicated it to Trump.Simone Collins: Yeah. The, the Venezuelan, what is it? Dissident leader? Yeah. AndMalcolm Collins: it, it, the fact that she immediately did that and then said Trump has been key to my work [00:06:00] in Venezuela Yeah. Indicates that she’s probably gonna give a pro-Trump speech at the, at the un.We’ll see how hard she goes pro-Trump. But it’s, it doesn’t look good for them. It makes them look incredibly petty when they’re like, oh yeah, but they gaveSimone Collins: Obama a Nobel Peace prize merely for. Becoming President and Trump,Malcolm Collins: they literally said, oh, well we only give peace prizes to people who have a long-term dedication to this.And I’m like, well, Obama didn’t. Right? And they’re like, well, well, and TrumpSimone Collins: started this with his first term. So Right.Malcolm Collins: And I’d also point out I, in creating the peace, something that was probably critical was, the bombing of Iran. A lot of people freaked out about that. They’re like, oh my God, how could he do this?How could he allow this? But both showing we are willing to go there and we’re willing to stop completely was was critical and we needed Iran on board with this to make this happen. Yeah. We had to get Turkey and Iran, two of the key financial backers to the region to say, okay, we’re going.Octavian, get out of the room. [00:07:00] Octavian, don’t you have some? I know you wanna stay with me, but you gotta get outta the room while we’re recording. Okay? Can you get out please? You can say hi to the fans and then you have to get out. But don’t unsubscribe. If you’re making a bunch of noise in the background, won’t that be sad?Simone Collins: Yeah.Malcolm Collins: Okay. GoSimone Collins: buddy. Go do your do go do your learning, ex finish up so we can start playing at four. Thank you.Malcolm Collins: I love you, buddy. All right. Sorry. So the point I was making is stuff like being willing to bomb Iran was, was absolutely critical in achieving this deal. And that’s something Kamala just wouldn’t have done.If Kamala had been in power, I see literally no possibility of this deal being done so early, and all of the leftists are obviously having to deal with this, this internally right now. Now note here, people can be like, why do I say this is a terrible deal for Israel? Or it looks like a terrible deal for Israel.I don’t think it is in the long run. They are for. 20 hostages releasing 2000 hostages. Okay. That’s a, that’s a [00:08:00] hundred hostages for every one hostage. They’re getting back. Right. And some of these hostages that they’re releasing were involved in the the October 7th attacks that killed thousands of Israelis.Right. And that’s goal was the eradication of the Jewish people. Like that is quite a thing to let them go after. They lived in fairly cush conditions in Israel for the past two years while the Israelis were being griped and tortured. Right. Like, and, and we know this by the way, because the ones that have been released have been like Yeah.And we also know from internal Hamas documents that grape was so common. That we have extensive records of it but only two instances where it turned out that two of the people were griping the male hostages and were executed for it. But it shows something that they thought that that was an okay thing to do, given what Hamas thinks about gayness.So it must have been incredibly normalized with the females if they thought they could do it with the males as well. Which I think is, is very, you know, and, and Israel will say, and I just wanna note this before I go further, so, so just people understand why I’m saying this is a [00:09:00] good thing. Trump was good to forces the, the Netanyahu hard liners are wrong here.You’ll be like, look, we are leaving a force there that is armed. They have said they won’t disarm to grow in power to reconsolidate and to attack us again. And I’m saying yes. All of those things are true. They will likely grow in power reconsolidate and eventually attack you again in 10 years, in 15 years, in 20 years.But here’s the reality of that situation. When they come after Israel in 15 years. You’re not gonna have Israeli soldiers going into those tunnels. You’re going to have automated AI drones going into those tunnels, and they’re not gonna have automated AI drones to defend themselves. They’re gonna still have AK 40 sevens.Okay? Moreover, you are not gonna have Europe. Tying your, your hands behind your back on this situation. Next time, you’re not gonna have America tying. Its your hands behind your back. [00:10:00] Because why? Because America’s gonna be dramatically more conservative than if you just look at demographic patterns, because Europe is not going to survive as an economic power with their existing demographics.By that what I mean is they have a, an incredibly low fertility rate, like 1.18, 1.18, and like, five and like. Spain, Italy, like really low across the board. They, they, they’re obviously going to cease to be relevant as a power. And not only that, but we’re increasingly seeing in Europe right now.And this is something that I’ve always talked about with my snake and the scorpion parable that I often tell to news cruise. I don’t think I’ve ever sold it on the channel, and I tell, came up with when I was talking to a, a German reporter who is at our house. And I said, okay, so you’ve got a bunch of immigrants coming into Germany right now, right?A bunch of Muslim immigrants and, and, and some of them convert to and assimilate with German culture and some of them don’t. And she goes, yes, that’s true. And I’m like, and you have a bunch of, you [00:11:00] know, white people in Germany right now. Some of them. What to get rid of all the immigrants, and some of them don’t.And she’s like, yes, that’s, that’s also true. And I was like, okay, what are the relative birth rates of each of those four groups? And she’s like, oh yeah. The Muslims that adopt German culture, that a culture rate to the urban monoculture end up with a. Like 0.5 fertility rate, the ones that don’t and stay very hostile to Germany and want to institution real law.They have a birth rate of like three or four. The Germans who want to get rid of all the Muslims, they have a birth rate of three or four. The ones who don’t have a birth rate of like 0.5. And I’m like. So here I am an outsider. The snake says, I’m gonna kill you, scorpions. I’m gonna kill you.Scorpions. And the scorpions say, I’m gonna kill you, snake. I’m gonna kill you, snake. And meanwhile, there’s a panda in between them holding them apart and the panda’s constantly being stung and bitten. But it’s like, no, no, no, I’ve hold apart. I’ve got this all handled. Okay. And here I am the outsider, and I go to the panda.And I go, they both say they [00:12:00] want to kill each other, and the panda’s like, but don’t worry, I’m holding them apart. And I’m like, but you don’t have any kids. And all of this venom’s gonna eventually kill you. You are structurally responsible for fewer deaths if you separate them now instead of waiting for the snakes and the scorpions to decide how they’re separated on their own.Yeah. Or what they really will decide is which one of them is gonna survive. Now, what I’ll point out is when the panda dies. In this analogy, it’sSimone Collins: battle Royal time. AMalcolm Collins: battle royale. But what I’m saying is, is Europe’s political sentiment towards the people of Gaza is going to be significantly less mm.Charitable. Charitable is the word I’m looking for here. You know, now, now that the Israeli troops are withdrawing, they can get back to, you know, marrying nine year olds and throwing gay people off roofs. Right. You know, that’s, that’s, that’s back where we are. A note here, these are not [00:13:00] stereotypes, okay.These are things that literally happen. As we pointed out in our episode recently when Pakistan banned child marriage. It’s like official tied to the government. Islamic court declared this Islamophobic. So like. This isn’t me saying this stuff about this culture. If you, if you ask, you know, Muslims, like actual Muslims from these countries, like, do, do you think that that you know, being gay should get you stoned?They’ll be like, it’s like asking, am I, am I a Muslim? I believe what the, what the freaking Koran says, right? Like, yes. What, what are you talking about? So anyway, to, to keep going here.There was an article in forward.com that said. We can’t hear you. Sohan. Read one New York headline this week. Pro Hamas crowd goes quiet on Trump’s Gaza Peace deal. And then a quote from the article said, it seems awfully curious that the people who have made Gazen a central political cause do not seem all that relieved, that there’s at least a [00:14:00] temporary cessation of violence.Why aren’t there widespread celebrations across western cities and college campuses today? The article asked, the post wasn’t alone in voicing this question, a spokesman for the Republican Jewish Coalition posted on x the silence from the ceasefire. Now crowd is shameful and deafening. Others went so far as to imply that the protestors had been lying and never actually wanted a ceasefire, which I think is true.They wanted the eradication to do with Jewish people. I think was, was ultimately what they wanted, and they’re, they’re not getting that now. I don’tSimone Collins: recall. I mean, may that there probably were calls for a ceasefire, but yeah, all I recall was basically Israel bad z Zionism bad. Like Israel can’t really, well they saidMalcolm Collins: they stopped the genocide.Stop the genocide. Trump stopped the genocide if it was a genocide. But I think it was just normal war stuff, but whatever. I mean, horrible things happen in war. That’s why war are terrible.Simone Collins: Right. But I mean, I was just listening to a super long podcast of, of people discussing. Zionists versus non Zionists and leftists in [00:15:00] Israel versus leftist Jews in the United States and sort of all of their various stances.And one, there was no explicit end point or outcome that was discussed as being optimal, but two, it was just sort of discussed that like the very concept of Israel is bad. And then, right,Malcolm Collins: because they, they, they support colonization, right? Like Israel is one instance in which a native population took back their land from the colonizers.And, and they’re showing that that’s not actually what they want. If that group is in any way deviant from the urban monoculture or has any sort of unique values or identity.Simone Collins: Hmm.Malcolm Collins: Because that’s what Israel really represents, which is a group of dispossessed people taking back their plant, their, their land from colonial imperialist forces.But I mean, that’s what happened. Like if you look at the history, that is what happened. But if you, Simone. Question.Simone Collins: Yeah.Malcolm Collins: What are your thoughts on what the anti Hamas people, because as the article here, and [00:16:00] I’ll, I’ll finish it, because what they really wanted wasn’t freedom or security for Palestine, for Palestinians.You mean anti-Israel people? Yes, but the ability to blame Israel. If pro-Palestinian voices had really wanted to ceasefire the thinking went, they should be celebrating, I want to ask you about this. Where do you think they go? Like, Greta Thornberg is out of the job now. She’s on a flotilla was out a purpose now, right?She’s good. No,Simone Collins: no, no, no, no. Now, now they can finally get aid through.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but the problem is, is that the stupid flotilla of yachts is not a cost efficient way to get aid into Gaza. Now that Israel is bringing aid to Gaza, right? Like you could just go through the official channels at this point. Yeah. So the question here is.What do you think they likeSimone Collins: from the river to this sea? Malcolm, they, they want Israel as a Jewish state to cease to exist. They they don’t believe in anything about Israel being inherently Jewish. They just believe that there’s currently Jewish supremacy in Israel and that that should be ended. That should be brought to an.Malcolm Collins: [00:17:00] It’s, it’s so, so to, to, to go over like what sort of things they’ve been saying recently. This is from an article by the Hill. Consider progressive Democrat, Zhan Mond, who is running to become the mayor of New York City. One of his trademark issues is Antagonism to Israel. He has yet to denounce his formal call to quote unquote globalize the Inata Theta.Basically. Eradicate the Jews. That is, that is what the ADA is. And especially hostile threat to Jews, as he said that if elected, he would put Israeli head of state, Benjamin Hanya in jail if he set for in New York City. Menani is so toxic to most voters. The senior members of his own party, like Representative Chuck Sch and Huck and Jeffries have yet to endorse him.But. This is, this is what they were talking about. You know, they were talking about globalizing the, in, in, in just weeks ago. This is what they were talking about at the college campuses. And now they’re not celebrating because they have lost the motivation to do that. And I [00:18:00] think a lot of, and I really hope the Jews didn’t understand that this was about the eradication of the Jews have woken up to this now.And that they’re not like. Oh. They just want to end the war because if they just wanted to end the war, they would be celebrating them, right? Instead of grumbling. And by the way, we’ve explained this in other videos. If people wonder why the urban monoculture wants to eradicate the Jews there’s a very easy reason.It believes that all differences between groups, because it says there’s no genetic differences between groups because it says there’s no cultural differences between groups. Because like if I point to say. One cultural group earning less money than another cultural group. And I’m like, well, you know, maybe culture has something to do with this that implies that the group could work to improve themselves.Right, right. Yeah. And so they have to deny that that is a potential reason for group differences. Mm-hmm. Well, if you remove genetics and culture as reasons for differential group outcomes, then the only reason left is one group is cheating. Like they are, they are manipulating the system to their advantage.And [00:19:00] if you look globally, it is very obvious. That Jews outcompete other groups in many areas, whether it is their position, the A number of them in Congress, the number of them, the Senate, it’s just court. It boilsSimone Collins: down to a classic issue of internal versus external locus of control. And it kind of, to me, it doesn’t really matter if another group is cheating or favoring their unkind or.Genetically superior or practicing cultural things that give them a strategic advantage. All that we can do is look at what they’re doing, what we could potentially replicate ourselves if we want to be where they are.Malcolm Collins: I, I understand and do somethingSimone Collins: about it. I think that a lot of people just have that external locus of control and nothing can be done to change it.Malcolm Collins: Simone, I understand what you’re saying, but I think you are not catching the, and therefore the, and therefore is the internal locus of control is a part of this. It’s not healthy. It’s different from how we see things, but it’s not actually relevant to this exact point. This exact [00:20:00] point is something that the urban monoculture.Must push because it is key to their ideology. If you look at our video, we talk about the aesthetics of the urban monoculture and, and, and how it came to be. The, I think we called it the religion of the urban monoculture. Basically, it presumes that what is true is what would be most moral if it was true.They don’t take this position because of an external locus of control. They take this location position. Because of that belief. It would be more ethical if all human differences. The, the humans actually were not different in any conceivable way. They aren’t culturally different, they aren’t genetically different.Because then what that means is if we can just get rid of unfair governance systems, we can create true equality, right? So that would be the, the fairest world. So they presume that world is true, but the reason why that’s so dangerous is because if a group, for whatever reason is. Reliably Outcompeting other groups.The only explanation is that they are systemically cheating. They have rigged the system [00:21:00] in their favor, right? And so that is why, because Jews do outcompete other groups. This is just something you can see in the data. Look at the number of billionaires who are Jewish. Look at the number of the, for, you know, fortune 500 eos that are Jewish.Look at the number of famous actors that are Jewish. Look at the number of famous writers that are Jewish. Look at the number of. It’s easy to see, right? So, and if, if you wanna come at me and be like, this is because of nepotism. I’m like, every group practices nepotism. And, and, and nepotism has always been allowed, right?Like that. I, I love it when somebody comes to me and they’re like, oh, this group practices nepotism. And it reminds me of that sceneSpeaker 11: I’m leaving.Speaker 10: Okay then, that was always allowed.Malcolm Collins: you know, like you are allowed to favor people who you know are culturally similar to you. When it, I mean, not by the urban Monocultural rules, but the urban monocultural hates the Jews, right?But within all sane cultural groups, like a Mormon is going to have an easier time vetting a Mormon than they’re gonna have vetting a non-Mormon. Right? They, they, they, they, they know who to call up with in the church. They know who to call up with in the system. [00:22:00] They know how to catch things really quickly that are signs that this person may be bad for the job, right?Like. This makes sense. This was always allowed and your group was likely practicing it as well, as I’ve said, was in my own life. The area where I’ve encountered the most extreme nepotism and, and blatant nepotism is with Catholics. I will note I have never encountered it as a negative context.The, the implication is always very inviting. Like, Hey come to this church event. I can introduce you to these very high profile people. Yeah. Hey. If you converted, I would be able to help you here, here, and here. Hey, there’s this really cool secret group, but you’ve gotta become a Catholic first which is a little different than the way the Jews ‘cause you can’t just become a Jew.So, so I will say I don’t see it as nefarious at all. And I point out that there, this is even done publicly with that big group, like the Federalist Society, which is basically the Federalist Society. They’re the ones who help get Catholic lawyers Catholic conservative lawyers disproportionately in positions.This is [00:23:00] why, like the Catholics are hugely overrepresented on the Supreme Court, and I’m not complaining about that. Like, whatever, right? Like you, you played, you played by the rules, right?Simone Collins: Yeah. You valued this thing and you worked to make this thing happen. And then people are outraged. How dare this person have worked to do this thing?It’s, it’s like someone says, I wanna go to Paris. I’m gonna save up for a trip to Paris. And then they go to Paris and people are like, how dare they? They’re privilege, they’re, they’re conspiring. I don’t get to go. Why am I not in Paris right now? And it’s like, dare or or you, I always find.Malcolm Collins: Nepotism. He hired his son.Why wouldn’t I hire my son over an equally qualified other candidate? Right? Like, like there’s a degree of nepotism where it becomes self-defeating and hurts me. But that’s also true of groups. If you are hiring, you know, like say an equally qualified Catholic, Orly qualified Jew and you’re Catholic or Jew or Mormon, right?You know, you’re not actually hurting because of the way you’re exercising, nepotism, but if you hire a far unqualified one, well then you are hurting through, through the nepotism that you’re practicing. Mm-hmm.But I thought I wanna talk [00:24:00] a little bit about what actually happened in the region.‘cause I think it’s interesting. Oh, before I go further, no, because I actually find this really fascinating. What does the grift become now? I think like, I dunno, you mean the,Simone Collins: the, the urban monoculture? Leftist grift.Malcolm Collins: The ones who are going around talking about globalizing the, and everything like that.By the way, people are like, is this gonna hold? Israel? Could just go back like, Kassan Piker, is it? Israel’s just gonna go back and attack. They will not, they cannot they have the hostages back. That, that, that the, the, the entire way they were able to argue to sort of the global Jewish community whose benevolence Israel relies on to a large extent.You can say Israel. Well may not care what the US thinks and stuff like that, but it does care what conservative Jews in the US think it does care what conservative Jews in Europe think it does care what conservative Jews around the world think because they send a lot of money to Israel and they’re sort of rely Israel’s long-term survival is reliant on its positive relationship with its, and reason I say the conservative [00:25:00] community, it’s the one that matters, not the, the progressive Wokes.It’s because they, they don’t have any kids, right? So they’re not really intergenerationally relevant. But every conservative Jewish community, when they, when they had their argument for the roar, it was, these are the hostages faces. Mm-hmm. Okay. If Israel goes back to war without that, they don’t just lose the sympathy of people like us.They lose the sympathy of the Jews around the world. Because then they’re like, okay, well, so you lied to us about why you were doing this. This was actually about genocide for the sake of genocide. Right. And so I, I think that that’s just ridiculous. Is there gonna be continued killing in the region?Absolutely. Because Hamas isn’t gone and they’re keeping their weapons, but it’s gonna be. Way smaller scale than it was historically. Israel has said it plans to continue to blow up the, the, the Hamas tunnels. You know, even with the war being over, which they should, that’s a military installation that really only has one purpose.So like, let’s get that handled. But anyway what do you, okay, I’m, I’m trying to model what they’re [00:26:00] gonna do next. I feel like. They’re, they, some of them may try to go on like a war crime thing and be like, oh, they should. But I, I, I think if that wasn’t working when the quote unquote genocide was actually happening, and I’ll, I’ll point out here.As I mentioned in another episode, if you are unaware of this, there is literally another, if we count this as a genocide, there is this year another genocide going on that is literally twice as large. Yeah. And these people aren’t talking about it, so it, and that’s what I was gonnaSimone Collins: say, like in an ideal world, they will shift their focus to a large genocide that is takingMalcolm Collins: place.But the problem is, is the large genocide that is taking place, if you haven’t heard about it, is literally. Arabs killing Black Africans for being black Africans. That’s like their stated reason. And when they kill them, the slur they use is slaves or translates to slaves.Simone Collins: Yeah, to be fair, someone was explaining in the comments in the video where we discussed that in, in greater length.Was [00:27:00] it like linguistically the first exposure to people of dark skin was only in the context of slaves. So. They sort of became synonymous ‘cause it was just like, yeah, everyone I know who looks like that is a slave. Therefore,Malcolm Collins: yeah, the inward became synonymous was black people in the United States and we didn’t, we don’t still do that.We were introduced to black people largely as slaves, as a culture. And we don’t still do that. No. So I, I don’t think that that’s a great excuse for why they are doing this. They’re basically calling them their culture’s version of the N word as they mass execute them, hang them and burn. Yeah.But the thing is, is that the left cannot admit that the, the Arabs who they have been glorifying for so long, and we point out in that video even like.On Al Jazeera, they have pundits saying, well, Palestinian blood matters more than African blood. They’re, they’re saying, it’s special, it’s of higher quality, right?Speaker 4: صحيح عنا ضحايا كثيرة ونتحمل، لكن شوف حتى ضحايانا [00:28:00] حتى ضحايانا دمها غالي. العالم كله مهزوز هو شوف غزة أقول لك في السودان صار في تهجير وصار في قتل أكثر من اللي صار بفلسطين سنتين ولا حدا حاسس فيهم ولا حدا يحكي عنهم، بينما إحنا مظاهرات بتقوم في الجامعات في كلMalcolm Collins: Like, this is a normal thought within the region, which is an incredibly racist region as we’ve pointed out.Where they, you know, I put on a video of them killing a, a, a black kid for being black. You know, like this is, this is not unheard of in these regions because of the amount of racism that is common within these regions, a a against black, because it’s not just like they’re anti-gay. They’re also talking about, but the question is just like, what do they do next?Right. Like, and sorry, the reason I mentioned this is somebody can be like, well, you can care about one genocide another, yeah. But the fact that you mentioned this one 20 times and this one that’s twice as big, not once shows that like, why couldn’t you bring it yourself to care about this genocide? But so what I want to, to point [00:29:00] out with all of this is, is, I think that a part of the left has become just blatantly antisemitic, and I think that it’s gonna become more normal. And I wouldn’t be surprised if we begin to see some leftists just identifying as antisemites.Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I, that’s my biggest prediction is that they aren’t going to drop the Israel Gaza narrative.They’re just going to keep focusing on. Zionism is bad and Israel as a Jewish state should not exist.Malcolm Collins: Well, okay, so look at what this does for the left. So they, they, they, they’re not gonna have this in the next election cycle. It’s like an issue they can talk about. Because, you know, Trump saved Gaza so they don’t have this in the next election cycle.They don’t have the, the, the trans stuff anymore. Like, that’s mostly blown up. Like even blue sky isn’t kicking off. One of our friends what’s his name again? The one who, Jesse Single. Jesse Single. Yes. And, and all the Blue Sky users are all mad about this, but like, even they are like, [00:30:00] he can say anti-trans stuff.We’re not gonna kick him off for it. And so like, like when I see blue sky turning against an issue, I’m like, okay, like this is really culturally over at this point. The environmentalist grift, everybody sort of forgot about that. Like I haven’t heard much environmentalist. Well, I mean, the factSimone Collins: that even Greta Thunberg has switched from the environment to Gaza is I think indicative of the scales really tipping and people just having dropped it.Y. Yeah. I mean, global poverty could be a thing again. Are they gonna make global poverty a thing again? Well, not, no, no, no. Not global poverty. An end to capitalism. Capitalism bad. Now, I could see that with Zohar Mond making such an impressive rise. Yeah. As the New York mayoral candidate. I think that’s really a sign of the new trending item, which is that capitalism is bad.AI is going to destroy all jobs. That’s another big trending story, right, is that the US Jobs report continues to be [00:31:00] dire. Oh myMalcolm Collins: God. Please don’t let them become AI doomers. That would be scary.Simone Collins: I don’t think they will. I think that they, they accept that AI is going to eliminate jobs. And when I hear people, for example, like Bernie Sanders, talk about what needs to happen because AI is going to eliminate jobs.It’s not we have to take out ai, we have to stop ai, it’s more we have to do all these things because this is inevitable. So I don’t, I do not think, I mean, based on what is trending now and what the narratives are now, that’s not it. Instead it’s going to be things like universal basic income and socialization and not.What? And capitalism bad. And capitalism tax rich people more. I, I could definitely see that being the new cause du jour.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, because like the race identity politics stuff is largely fallen out of favor. Mm-hmm.Simone Collins: TheMalcolm Collins: trans stuff has largely fallen out of favor. Mm-hmm. The Gaza stuff isn’t relevant anymore.I, environmentalism is just so fascinating to [00:32:00] me. Like, it’s such like a, I don’t even know how I’d be positioning myself. They could try to take up antinatalism as a cause they could try to take up Ai deism. No. They could try to take up noSimone Collins: capital isn’t bad. And also that allows them to continue to be anti.S anti-Semitic because a lot of the most famous wealthy capitalists are also Jewish. So Yeah.Malcolm Collins: But the thing is, is that the new right. Like when I talk about the current right, the problem, why I don’t say capitalism bad is gonna work that well for them, is very skeptical of capitalism. I you no, look at, look at the leading figures in the new, right, right.You know, you got people like. Curtis Jarvin fan of the show, been on the show. He’s like a monarchist man. Like you look at us. We had an episode this weekend for our Patreon fans where we went deeper on this, where I argue that I’m not as, as like a staunch historic pro capitalist. I am not sure that capitalism works in the face of AI systems.Like I’m. I am not sure that [00:33:00] capitalism can continue to function as it has historically.Simone Collins: Right? Like there’s a Yeah, but there’s a difference between, I don’t know if this economic system is sustainable. We need to rethink these things fundamentally and eat the rich. All right there. There’s a really big difference.Yeah. I think again, comes down to. The difference between having an internal locus of control and an external locus of control and the new rights approach to capitalism not being sustainable is we need to rethink these systems. How do we what? What are the evidence-based approaches we can take? Whereas the left approach to this system is, these rich people need to give us their money and I don’t wanna work anymore.And. That’s just howMalcolm Collins: well I, I think, I think it’s gonna be a little different from the direction you think so there is a leftist academic narrative, I guess I’d call it.Simone Collins: Okay.Malcolm Collins: And I can see that. So if you read Greta Thornberg’s, because I for a long time have been very confused in attempting to model and [00:34:00] understand how leftists support a group.Like, you know, like they think that they have much more in common with the Goins than the blacks who are being killed in Africa. And I’m like, why? Like. This group hates gay people. You know, you would literally go to jail for 10 years in Gaza for being gay, right? Like, it, it, it, it does not like black people.It does not like any of the other things that they say they care about. And so I’m trying to understand why. Octavian, please close the door. It’s really important. Why they are doing all of this. And the best answer I can come to when I read her stuff is it’s, we’ll say like, well, it’s the global colonialist project sort of thing that they talk about. They’ll use words like colonialist or whatever to talk about some sort of like a globalized system that needs to be undone. Which is also sometimes talked about under the term patriarchy or is talked about under, like they’ve moved from using the term patriarchy to using the term.Like global colonialists [00:35:00] or something, you know? And they’re basically this sort of conspiracy theory around the idea that there are sort of societal forces working together to create this larger architecture that is like inherently oppressive and is upstream of. All of the environmental problems that we have, all of the systematic inequality that we have.All of the, everything that we have, right. So I think fighting the system is where they’re moving next. Which is interesting because it’s not dissimilar to what our faction of the right sees ourself as doing is fighting the. What we see as a colonialist system, IE the system of the urban monoculture, this system represented by the, the you know, progress pride flag, as we call it, the colonizer body.Funny,Simone Collins: have you finished your learning exercises? Yeah, I think, I don’t think so. Can you finish and then we’ll start it forward to play with Toasty and Titan and Andy. I, I actually [00:36:00] did my carpet. It was made me pretty smart. It made you smart? Yeah. Okay. Now go do some math exercises.Thank you. But don’t, yeah.Malcolm Collins: So I think that they’re moving to this like wider conspiracy theory, fight the power narrative, which is not bad, but is, is also very similar to what we’re doing as I, as I pointed out there. And I think, it’s, it, it, the difference is, is that we are fighting like a real power that like actually has institutional power and they are fighting something that was sort of invented almost like a religion in the halls of academia.I think what they’re gonna become in this way is more dedicated to the religion of the left rather than actual areas of concern.Simone Collins: Esoteric monks, counting angels on the heads of pins. I dunno quote, I dunno. I don’t think so. No. I think it’s going to be about actively trying to socialize various aspects of government in a way that is detrimental and that’s going to increase our burn and our acceleration toward the tipping point of dependency ratio cascades, whereby we have more [00:37:00] people who are net drains on the state than contributors, which is only going to accelerate our progress toward monarchy.So I think ultimately in the end, this. Peace between Israel and Gaza is going to be the accelerant that drives us even more quickly toward Curtis vin’s, monarchy.Malcolm Collins: I love you so much. So, and I had a bunch more, I was gonna talk about the specifics of the, the peace plan which I think is interesting basically, well, I’ll just briefly talk about it.So how this happened was Trump worked really hard, was Erdogan to put pressure and then worked to get Iran to put pressure on Hamas to accept the deal. Because they, again, it, it’s, it’s enormous that he got them to do this. Yeah. They’re not gonna take it from us. Right. And, and now a, a Pan Arab sort of group is going to be running the, a, a non Hamas government in the region.Like they’re not giving it back to the people there. They’re like, that didn’t work. So we’ll have like a Pan Arab. State there which is probably the, the most [00:38:00] realistic thing that could have been agreed to, you know, is it’s not under Israel’s control to put it that way. The Hamas is staying armed.They’re, they’re not giving up their arms and Israel is continuing some cleanup operations, like destroying tunnels. Hamas is gonna see their primary job here as many of their, their supporters did is sharing fake videos of Israel attacking after the, the. They were older videos after the ceasefire, but they’re gonna do everything they can to try to antagonize Israel into some sort of large scale response or even small scale responses.We’re gonna see a few of those. That’s obviously gonna happen. But it, it won’t escalate beyond that. There’s, there’s no reason to, as I said, like Israel benefits. From not having this escalate, the people of gossip benefit from not having this escalate. The only group that really wants this to escalate again is Hamas.And, and the problem is, is that Hamas has lost a lot of their backing because Iran got their teeth kicked in. The pretty severely Hezbollah got their teeth kicked [00:39:00] in pretty severely. The, the people who would’ve funded them and would’ve seen this as a good thing, just don’t have the money or motivation to go ahead with this anymore.And, and so the, the whole situation has been sort of bled dry to an extent. And, and there’s not a, a lot of chance they just didn’t get what they wanted out of it, right? Mm-hmm. Like, no, no, nobody who, who funded this to begin with, other than the killings of Jews. Did they get what they wanted.And so I, I just don’t understand why you, anyone would think that it would, would reignite, right? They’re, they’re, they’re gonna get enough people to reignite this. It’s just not, they’reSimone Collins: just too tired.Malcolm Collins: Well, also, one of the reasons it started, it wasn’t bad as it was, is Israel had become incredibly complacent about that wall and that border.Um mm-hmm. And that allowed for, you know, if, if they had shot down all the gliders on day one, if they had shot down everybody who was running over on day one, this wouldn’t have happened. Right. And so if they increased the security there, which I am certain they’re going to and are much more [00:40:00] vigilant about it you, you don’t get anyone running over.They just get shot the moment they cross the wall. And that’s, that’s it. And it’s possible to make a much more secure wall than they had that that was, if you look at pictures of the old wall, it just was not that secure. Mm-hmm. And I just don’t see that happening. A again yeah. Thanks for bringing me up of the world.Simone Collins: Yeah. Oh, thank goodness. But oh, so terrible for the left. Terrible Trump ending so many wars. Is it? This is, is this number seven or number eight?Malcolm Collins: I dunno. I, I mean, he’s, he is literally now almost certainly saved more lives than any president in living history. Sh. Can’t tell anyone that, oh my God, if he ends up somehow ending the Russia, Ukraine war as well, people are going to lose their minds.Simone Collins: What’s so wild though, to me is that he also cares, it seems on a much more visceral level than other presidents. Other presidents are a lot more cerebral about things like war, [00:41:00] and Trump really feels it, like he gets emotional about it. He does not like seeing. The death and the people and the pain and the suffering, like it really, really gets to him.And this, this shows up in people who’ve, you know, written about their experiences working with him. It’s not something that shows up. And his press conferences are in the media. Like this is something that shows up behind closed doors.Malcolm Collins: Absolutely. Well, I I think it’s something that you can deduce from looking at his actions.Hmm. So a lot of people think the reason he wants to end the Russia, Ukraine war is because he’s pro-Russia. But you see that when Putin doesn’t play ball with him, he gets, gets really frustrating. He’ll go on long screeds, he’ll, he’ll say stuff about Putin. That Biden and Harris would never say about Putin, like when you can see the same thing in hisSimone Collins: domestic policy as well.When, when, when people die, really sad, really unfair deaths, it, it hits some of the grief bone. And I, I think that’s also just so notable is that he has ended as many wars and conflicts as he has and that [00:42:00] he really cares in a way that I think most politicians and statesmen would consider to be.Deeply unprofessional. Yeah. Which is, is kind of sick. And it’s funny because this is, you talked about how one of your politician family members had talked about the frustrating thing about being a politician, being that both the good things about you and the bad things about you that people say aren’t even accurate.And I think one of the good things about Trump that no one says. Is is a good thing about him is the fact that he does actually deeply care about human suffering.Malcolm Collins: Well mean people do say it when they spend time with him. Even like progressives who hate him say it. They’re like, he seems to be, I don’t hearSimone Collins: it.Malcolm Collins: They, they, I’ve heard it’s like, it’s almost like a childish hatred of, of, of seeing like kids dying and stuff and just being, I have to stop this. Mm-hmm. And you see it in his frustration with Putin. Like when, when Putin, you know, didn’t make the deal happen. AndSimone Collins: zelensky both of them. He’s like, he’s like, why he wants, he wants to take a hose and hose down the cat fight and he [00:43:00] can’t, and it gets him very angry.Malcolm Collins: Well, no, but he also has this exact aspiration of like, do you not understand people are dying? Mm-hmm. Like,Simone Collins: mm-hmm.Malcolm Collins: Why won’t you stop this?Simone Collins: And pretty much every statesman and politician has somehow like. Trained themselves to kind of abstract themselves from it in a way that Trump just never did.Because I think he never really saw himself as that kind of person. He never saw himself as like, these are pieces on my chess board. These are soldiers on my map. No, that’s, that’s just not how he works. ‘Cause I think maybe a lot of it comes down to his insecurity. You know, these are all people who like me and have opinions about me, and he models people differently as someone from the media, as someone who cares about the feelings of other people, because those depend.Those, those determin, I dunno. I disagree. His validation, I dunno whatMalcolm Collins: he cares about people dying in Russia, in Ukraine. The interesting thing is, is he seems to care about people dying on both sides. He does,Simone Collins: but my point is, perhaps this is a result of him being a media figure and media figures needing to model people’s feelings more than like abstract.[00:44:00]Like physics mod modeling, which I think is more what statesmen look at and politicians look at. It’s more like where are the numbers, where are the headwinds? Where are the tailwinds? Whereas if you are a media mogul and even if you’re a real estate mogul, both of these domains of his, a lot of it really has to do more with.Sentiment than with tailwinds and headwinds and logistical geopolitical forces. Anyway, though, thank you for for this. Love you. Very interesting conversation. Have a great day,Malcolm Collins: and it’s a good day for the world. And it’s going to be very interesting to see where the progressive movement goes after this.‘cause I just don’t know.Simone Collins: I think I do. We’ll see.Malcolm Collins: It can’t be antisemitic. What’s next?Simone Collins: Well, anti-capitalism is anti-Semitism. You can have your cake and eat it too. We’ll see. There we go. I feel like such a zombie right now, but then I checked to see how much I actually slept last night, and it was two and a [00:45:00] half hours. So I’m like, okay, I’m allowed to not function today.Malcolm Collins: How am I coming through, by the way?Simone Collins: Good. And I really like the mic. I mean the mic stand. TheMalcolm Collins: mic stand. Yeah. It’s much better.Simone Collins: Yeah. You have taken the feedback of the people who do not want you to, Jo. They say both of youMalcolm Collins: need to use Simone’s camera. Little do they know, I’m pretty sure we’re using the same camera right now.WeSimone Collins: are using the same camera. I think it just responds really sensitively to light, but you’re well lit today, so works outMalcolm Collins: oh, any, anything else? Any how were people responding to the episode?Simone Collins: They liked it. I was surprised to see the number of people who, on today’s episode, about Chinese social media censorship chimed in to talk about Friday’s Minecraft cult episode. Oh, really? Yeah. They were like, well, I, I couldn’t watch it because it’s too dark.But also that’s useful information. But also I didn’t [00:46:00] wanna watch it because I come here for just prenatal list stuff, and I don’t know why. So many people wanted to comment on last Friday, seven Monday. ‘cause I think we talkedMalcolm Collins: about it and we were talking about why the numbers were so low. Oh, we were like, we were very confused by the low numbers on the, it’s because our fans aren’t true crime fanatics like myself.True, true. Connoisseur. People always wonder what I’m drinking when I’m drinking the new thing. I don’t, I don’t drink alcohol on stream that much anymore. So this is, this is lemonade. And the other one that people thought was bourbon was apple cider. Non-alcoholic apple cider. Anyway I will get started and people can tell me if they think I’m not as good when I’m, when I’m not drinking.You know, maybe they’re like, your stuff was so much better when you, I don’tSimone Collins: know. Of course like counts as alcohol even.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Parties. I feel like it’s a sportsSimone Collins: drink.Malcolm Collins: I always invite people over and I have the, the dad joke of we got some beers for people who wanna drink and some Coors Light for people who don’t.Anyway, so I’ll get, I’ll get started.Speaker 31: [00:47:00] In Gaza’s land where palm trees sway, Trump’s got a plan to save the day. With golden towers touching skies, A billionaire’s paradise does arise. Gaza’s the new Riviera, oh, oh, what a sight. Gold towers shining day and night. Golf courses stretching far and wide. Trump’s dream land by the sea. Seaside, the beaches glow with golden sand, the finest golf course in the land.Caddies and suits with perfect flair, all par for the course in luxury’s lair. Gaza’s [00:48:00] the new Riviera, oh what a sight. Gold towers shining, baby. The night stretching by the seaside, a five star hotel where camels roam with golden chandeliers in every home piece talks on the 18 hole diplomacy with the golfing.Oh, what a sight. Gold towers shining day and night. Golf courses stretching far and wide. Trump’s dreamland by the seaside. So [00:49:00] here’s to Gaza, a brand new face. In Trump’s world where golden dreams blaze. A Riviera shining bright. A site to see where golf and grandeur make history. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, Simone and Malcolm Collins dive deep into China’s sweeping crackdown on social media, exploring how the Chinese government is targeting not just political dissent, but also “sad people,” conspicuous consumption, LGBTQ+ communities, and even influencers who promote minimalism or criticize the economy. We discuss the cultural, economic, and political motivations behind these policies, compare them to similar trends in other countries, and debate the long-term consequences for China and the world. From the disappearance of China’s “Kim Kardashian” to the fate of the “lying flat” movement, this conversation is packed with surprising stories, sharp analysis, and global context. Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Malcolm. I’m excited to be with you today because we are going to talk about China’s crackdown and it’s not exactly what you would expect.It’s a crackdown on sadMalcolm Collins: people. SadSimone Collins: peopleMalcolm Collins: go to jail,Simone Collins: directly to jail, sad people. It’s also a crackdown on, on Crazy Rich Asians, which are my favorite.Malcolm Collins: So yes, yes. Sad people. Rich people. They’re basically like live. The middle class like that is the aspiration we want on the internet. Yeah. You will be moderates.Well, but not just that. ‘cause we’re also gonna go on, you know, them disappearing gay people, them disappearing trans people. Literally everything that they are shoving down the west right now. Like everything that they are filling. TikTok whiz, their bots are hammering. YouTube whiz. ProbablySimone Collins: more apparently.Oh yeah. Yeah.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but this, this is, oh, no, no. YouTube still very badly affected by Chinese bots. This is what every, everything that, that, you know, we keep saying this is what they’re hitting [00:01:00] us with within their own country. It’s controlled their own citizens can’t even voluntarily produce this kind of content.AndSimone Collins: most people are familiar with this, with TikTok. How, like in the United States, TikTok is just sort of this, this, this. S toilet vortex of debauchery and distraction. And in, in China it’s like educational content.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But the way that Laowai talked about this was he said it’s, it’s a form of informational, asymmetric warfare, you know?Mm-hmm. With their own country. All of this stuff is banned and I think the question that we’re gonna be coming to throughout this episode is. Is this actually bad, like the way that China is implementing this? Yeah. I know that we have like this idea around free speech maxing in the United States but when other powers are actively and provably using these platforms to, so social discord was in our country.You know, do we need to address this? Or is [00:02:00] there benefit in addressing it the way that, that China’s addressing it? And what are the downsides to addressing it the way that China’s addressing it? Yeah. So get started, Simone.Simone Collins: Yeah. So first off, what really got me and what I, where I first heard about this was the conspicuous consumption takedown where all of a sudden these really treasured.Famous Chinese people. Just like not known to Americans had their accounts taken down. So notable people were weighing Hong Queing. Yes, I butchered that. 2.3 millionMalcolm Collins: followers.Simone Collins: Yeah, this guy was known for being China’s Kim Kardashian. I’m setting you. A picture of him looking fabulous in his outfits.I, I just, I love his look. I’m, I’m kind of devastated that he’s been taken down because this means that I can’t easily consumeMalcolm Collins: his content anymore. Matt, those outfits look ridiculous. He looksSimone Collins: like he’s out of some crazy futuristic anime. He, his whole thing, aside from being China’s Kim Kardashian. Was that he [00:03:00] became really famous for his claims of never leaving home with less than 1.4 million worth of clothing and jewelry, as well as owning seven high value properties reportedly worth over 110 million US dollars.They were all located within this exclusive Beijing compound. He, he is, is really known for the lavish outfits. Great examples that I sent to you. Yeah. Valuable jewelry, frequent visits to hot couture. Jewelry dealers accompanied by his security team, which makes sense. ‘ cause if you don’t leave the H it’s like you’re famous for not leaving the house in that amount of money.LikeMalcolm Collins: screwed. Yeah. You’re, you’re, you’re asking for. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think what a lot of people don’t realize is, is you build this up, building up. Fame like that, you know, 2.3 million followers. Like, I’d be devastated if our followers just got wiped one day. Right? Like, this is something you worked for years building up.Well, andSimone Collins: this is, he’s someone who like, literally, I mean this, this wasn’t how he got his wealth. His wealth was from a family business in coal mining, mining that was later invested into jdi jewelry, [00:04:00] which of course is why he. Has a lot of Jdi jewelry. And he’s also launched his own luxury boutique.But he’s been very explicit about like, no, I wanna be famous. I want to be an influencer. And China justMalcolm Collins: pulled the rug away. There’s other people, by the way, I dunno if you saw this one. They were lady ab, sister abalone? No, no. The one who got disappeared for giving money to poor people.Simone Collins: I dunno, this one.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So there was a guy who was sort of doing like what Mr. Beast was doing, but in China. Oh. Where he would you know, ask poor people who had recently bought groceries. You know, how much did you spend on that? And then he’d pay them back for it and get sort of their life story. And he had built up I think it was millions of followers.And and he was taking,Simone Collins: he was, he’s redistributing wealth though. This is part of the, but,Malcolm Collins: but Xi Jinping declared. That there are no poor people in China. So Oh no, he’s, and he was very pro to state, and the thing that they finally disappeared him over and I mean, disappeared. They didn’t just take him off social [00:05:00] media.You now can’t search his name or anything like that. Right. He’s likely in a detainment facility somewhere. Oh, no. He had somebody come on his channel during a live stream and ask him if he shot Xi Jinping was a dictator. And he immediately cut the video. He then went on a rant about how crazy this guy was, and the government should look him up and arrest him.He joined the line to the public. Exactly. Disappears the next day. Oh.Speaker: 说什么我想说你认为习他是一个独裁者吗?我操,这种人严重违反直播规范啊,这种人严重违反直播规范,我第一时间给他挂掉。这种人疯了吧,这种人。这种人是不是疯了?我的天呐,这种人太可怕了这种人。这种人肯定有人找他的,这种人肯定有人找他。 有人找他,这种人疯掉了这种人。你怎么能违反直播规范呢?[00:06:00] 我的天呐,我第一时间给他挂掉了啊,第一时间给他挂掉了。这种人,你自己承担自己的法律后果。我的天哪,这种人太可怕了,这种人。Malcolm Collins: This didn’t just happen to him. This happened to another guy who disappeared. This other guy had like, I think half a million followers and he was bantering with some kid, you know, like a, an actual child, right? Like they were doing like video game banter.And at one point he’s like, who do you think you are? And the kid’s like, well, my dad will beat you up. And then the guy was like, who’s your dad? And the kid said, Xi Jinping. And then the guy just like stops talking and like gets this like scared look at the camera. The next day he disappears as well.His dad was obviously not Xi Jinping, he made a joke. But you can’t make a joke about Xi Jinping and the kid, one does not joke. Kidden didn’t realize that. Oh boy. And so, you know, you’re, you’re, you are, the level of these people aren’t just disappearing from the internet, but they’re often [00:07:00] actually disappearing and unsearchable after this happens.Simone Collins: That is terrifying,Malcolm Collins: but continue.Simone Collins: Yeah. I’m, I, yeah, I was just, I was thinking in this case about just these, these conspicuous consumptions. Were you think about theMalcolm Collins: Apple guy, the guy who now they’re putting his face on Apple phones across stores around the world? No. Okay. Well, we’ll get to that later because this is another instance where I’m, no,Simone Collins: I’m sad about Sister Abalone who help me, sister abalone.She’s, she’s she’s known for, she’s actually an older woman, so she was really, I was like, oh, this is so cool. Like an influential, like fashionable old woman. She had over 2 million followers on, on Doyen, and, and she had this lavish Macau is. State that had private gardens and courtyards and a golf course, and she wore lots of jade jewelry and she would document her her lifestyle, eating really expensive food, hence sister abalone.There’s also Mr. Bo who was all about like the fancy clothes and he a lot of dogs in his videos and he w you know, wear his [00:08:00] dogs in fancy purses. And this is, it’s so interesting to me. Because in the, the United States and probably other places like Western countries, this like almost fetishization of crazy rich Asians who just have insane conspicuous consumption is mm-hmm.So high. And even some of the new, most famous, just not because they’re Asian, but just because they’re rich influencers do happen to be Asian. Oh God, why am I blanking on her name?Becca Bloom. Okay, so there’s, there’s this new influencer, they’re basically on this year in 2025, came on the scene in the United States. She’s actually, she’s a Silicon Valley background. Like she, she, her, I think her mansion is in Atherton, Malcolm. Oh, wow. Yeah, so like Silicon Valley parents, like in tech and she herself.Is I think working in finance, probably investing, but she suddenly became this beloved influencer specifically just for being wealthy. And like she [00:09:00] sh shows off her jewelry. She just got married, so she had this amazing lavish marriage. And she’ll show off the insane like desserts that she serves to her dog that are more than like what we would be able to afford for like.A, a very, very special holiday meal for our entire family, extended family that kind of thing. And, and she here, and it’s just so crazy to me this contrast of like this, this celebration of it in the United States and it often centering around. Asian influencers and then them just being apparently quite trounced in China.But what’s makes this so much more interesting is also, as you pointed out, the lying flat takedown. And then the New York Times recently covered this which is basically a very new two month campaign. And it turns out that these campaigns are related. Did you know that? No. The take down of both the depressing people and of the rich people, it’s part of.So both of them have been executed by the [00:10:00] cyberspace administration of China, which I love that they have.Malcolm Collins: We need one of those continue. Okay, so how are they connected?Simone Collins: It is, it’s just literally the internet police. So I think the American of it has to be the internet police for obvious reasons. And if you’re too young to know that reference, then. I’m sad for you.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, right. The, the, we’ll, we’ll back trace them. But in China they actually do like, no, that’s the thing.They have the internet policeSimone Collins: and they will back trace you. I love it so much. But yeah, so they’re both part of this larger common prosperity initiative. And it, it’s a broad set of measures. It’s, it’s policy and it’s like literal, like fiscal economic. Government legislative policy and social initiatives that’s measured at, at reducing inequality, improving social services, and fostering balanced development across regions and population groups.So literally this is it. It is about sort of forcing people into moderation in some middle [00:11:00] ground. So you can’t work too little, but you can’t work too much. You can’t be too rich, but you can’t be too poor. What we, what we’re talking about here with the, taking down the depressing social media influencers, but also the Kim Kardashian hyper consumption social media influencers is the, the, so just the social elements.So they’re, they’re trying to promote what they call spiritual prosperity, um mm-hmm. Is as, as well as material prosperity where they’re, they’re, they have policies aimed at social stability and national morale, and positive cultural values, which is why they’re trying to fight like. Cynicism, but also the hyper consumerism.And they believe that, that there are also additional, like, things that they’re taking out is entertainment, celebrity culture. So I think that might help to explain why they’re, they’re Mr. Beast, like person was taken out. ‘cause they literally don’t want like entertainment culture, that is another one of them.So they’re, they’re trying to get rid of consumerism, pessimism, [00:12:00] entertainment culture and celebrity culture and gay stuff. Yeah. So was Russia though. I mean, like everyone wants to get rid of gay stuff. I don’t know why. Right.Malcolm Collins: So in, in 2023, there were massive shutdowns of the Beijing LGBT center, the PLGA China, the university queer societies were abruptly deleted in 2021.Mm-hmm.And again, in 2023, then the CAC ordered the closure of WeChat, profiles of Beijing laa, Solana Lesbian Networking, and WW w use GBT Plus Group and Trans Trans Story transgender support networks as well as others like the Flying Cat Brotherhood.Simone Collins: That sounds amazing. What?See, these are travesties, all these, all these amazing influencers and groups that just sound, butMalcolm Collins: hold on. But these are, what’s funny is these are the people who, like on TikTok and everything like that, think China is their friend. Like, they’re like, oh, China, what a great place to, to, to be gay, to be queer, to, yeah.They’re nationalistic.Simone Collins: They’re just, unfortunately they’re [00:13:00] not welcomeMalcolm Collins: in. Yeah. They’re always this a movie a queer themed movie filmed. Called together which was digitally edited to turn a same sex couple into a heterosexual couple. And then they tried to like share the movie secretly online, unedited parts of it.And I think there was a rest over that. One student organizer, a trans activist, had her WeChat history scrubbed and wow. I actually have a list of, I think a erases here. Oh, yeah. I mean, if you’re talking about small things, because it’s not just the stuff that you’re talking about, it’s also like criticizing celebrities can get you arrested.CriticizingSimone Collins: celebrities.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Ash too, in September, 2025, had an account with 50,000 followers. And they were, they had all their, their posts erased for hyping a celebrity’s makeup, eg. Vega star drama post. Let’s, I thinkSimone Collins: that’s part of the celebrity culture crackdown though.Malcolm Collins: It’s just that don’t want celebrity gossip.October, 2025 a, a post they got ended up getting reposted 600 times. Got a [00:14:00] user removed because it was a quote unquote personal update, but the personal update involved financial hardship due to traffic fines.Simone Collins: Oh oh dear.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So it’s, it’s it’s little things like this. That are getting people removed.Simone Collins: But I think it’s, it’s bigger things too though. And I’d love to read a little bit from the New York Times article about the lying flat style. Okay, go for it. Because this is one of the bigger trends that we’ve covered more on the podcast and I’ve really been awareMalcolm Collins: lying flat is the movement where people protest through not working or engaging within the Chinese economy and just trying to earn what they need to to survive.And I have come to viewSimone Collins: this. Is something that was like insurmountable, like that there would be no, this was the one way you could actually resist the Chinese government. And so I, I’m really interested to see how it plays out for the Chinese government to resist this because like the whole point with lying flat is like, well you can’t stop me from this, you know?Yeah. So, but they can. You’d be right, apparently. Yeah. And so let’s, [00:15:00] that’s why I wanted to, to,Malcolm Collins: to dig intoSimone Collins: this. Well, I mean,Malcolm Collins: they’re basically saying you cannot get out of the rat race. The rat race is why you exist. Yeah. Get back on thatSimone Collins: fricking treadmillMalcolm Collins: NY Chinese person. Get back on theSimone Collins: treadmill.So the air times it just released this, we’re recording this on Friday. Maybe we’ll run it Monday or Tuesday. But cheer up or else. China cracks down on the haters and cynics. As China struggles with economic discontent, internet censors are silencing those who voice doubts about work, marriage, or simply sigh too loudly online, which is to like, can you imagine this happening in America where like 90% of social, social media is either conspicuous, hyper consumption, like all the restock videos, all the like holiday decoration videos, all of the, you know, clothing, whatever.And then. The, I hate the government. I hate my life. I hate, I’m, I’m depressed. I’m disabled Videos. Yeah. Like what would our social media even be? I, that’s what I kind of wonder what’s left anyway. Yeah. China censors are moving to stamp out more than just political [00:16:00] descent online. Now they’re targeting the public mood itself, punishing bloggers and influencers whose weary posts are resonating widely.In a country where optimism is fraying, the authorities have punished two bloggers who advocated for a life of less work and less pressure and influencer who said that it made financial sense not to marry and have children, and a commentator known for bluntly observing that she, hold on, let life behind Western countries in terms of quality.She said.Malcolm Collins: It makes financial sense to not marry and have kids and they’re getting rid of her. They’re, they’re, you know, I think this is what people imagine if we had total power in America, what social media would be like.Simone Collins: Yeah. Oh, I don’t know. I mean, I think like we toe the line so heavily on cultural sovereignty.We’re more like, yeah, don’t, don’t get married and have kids. You’re clearly not up for it. What do you see?Malcolm Collins: Somebody is driving into our neighbor’s yard without appearing to slow down. I mean, they’re slowing down a little. What, what are they doing?Simone Collins: Well, they’re, I saw a car in front of his yard like right in front of their house earlier, and he was standing out that our, our neighbor was standing [00:17:00] out in front of his phone.So I think that’s,Malcolm Collins: that’s somebody who they knowSimone Collins: intentional. Yeah. These supposed cynics and skeptics, two of whom had tens of millions of followers, have had their accounts suspended or banned in recent weeks as China’s internet regulator conducts new cleanup of Chinese social media. The two month campaign launched by the Cyber Space Administration of China, AKA, the internet police as far as I’m concerned in late September, is aimed at purging content that incites excessively pessimistic sentiment.And panic or promotes defeatist ideas such as hard work is useless according to a notice from the agency, whichMalcolm Collins: a lot of Chinese people. You can see our episode on this belief.Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. In reality, we all experience fatigue and anxiety as a result of work and life, but these real emotions deserve respect and should not be deliberately amplified for traffic.The internet is not a dumping ground for negativity. Chinese state broadcaster, CCTV said in an editorial about the campaign, I love that they’re like. Stop whining, basically. [00:18:00] Grow up around the world. Officials debate how to keep social media from stoking outrage and polarization that could spill over into real world violence or harm.The internet regulator in China has framed its campaign in similar terms, expressing concern about messages that stoke divisions based on gender or other group identities. Live streaming content that glorifies self-harm and violence, but China. So basically they’d outlaw like the manosphere and like feminist.Stuff I would assist. Oh yeah, no. Yeah. Oh God. Yeah. But that, that’s the other like 5%. Right? So if 90% is whining and hyper consumerism, then like 5%. Manosphere woman os sphere, queer ophere, that’s gone too. What is what?Malcolm Collins: Well, I would, I would, I would sacrifice the manosphere to if, if the feminist side of things also disappeared at the same time,Simone Collins: I feel like, yeah, maybe the manosphere would sacrifice itself just to get them shut up.Malcolm Collins: Yes, I, I just like shut up with this gender nonsense. Oh yeah. Seriously.Simone Collins: But China’s crackdown carries a distinctly political undercurrent. It demonstrates the concern [00:19:00] among its leadership about the spread of malaise as the country grapples with economic uncertainty of volatile rivalry with the United States and growing disenchantment among young people.In recent years, some young people have opted out of the rat race in favor of the minimal life of lying flat or given up on goals altogether and letting it rot, which apparently is another one of the. Phrases that’s come out. The accounts of two bloggers known for promoting a minimal lying flat lifestyle were blocked from adding followers late last month.And that’s an interesting, sophisticated way of mm-hmm. Of doing it. Just like cappingMalcolm Collins: your upside. Yeah. No more followers. I mean, I love that because. You know, you as a follower might not realize something has happened. I mean, obviously Yeah. The, the blogger knows something has happened and they’ve got to like re decide how they’re gonna structure their lives.Mm-hmm. ‘Cause you know, that’s their income stream and everything, right? Mm-hmm. But the, the followers themselves wouldn’t immediately realize that they had been blocked or disappeared.Simone Collins: And this is framed as obviously very dystopian. The same thing essentially [00:20:00] happened on pre Elon Musk Twitter.People were essentially shadow banned and they couldn’t add more followers. Actually, you know, a lot of people right now are complaining people who have smaller follower accounts like us Yeah. Are arguing on exit, like basically with the algorithm. They, they have no choice, like they’ve no choice or option ability to grow.So as much as it’s like, ooh, China evil, China bad. Kind of like this happens everywhere and sometimes it’s not even a political thing. Wait, soMalcolm Collins: why are they saying this on X? Are they just saying like the way the algorithm works? Yeah. Or are they saying they’re They’re just saying like,Simone Collins: basically with current algorithm updates, small fries have no chance of growing.Hmm. Yeah. Interesting. So, I mean, just, just to say I’m, I’m just trying to add some perspective anyway. Beijing is concerned that such pessimism doesn’t just discourage citizens from being productive. Members of society could run into criticism of the ruling communist party. The root cause is deteriorating economic and social perspectives for many Chinese, which has led to what a country would be in a natural social response, the expression of anxiety.And misgiving said David [00:21:00] Erky, the director of the China Media project, a research group. Such sentiment. The leadership worries might be infectious. Mr. Ben Dsky said, local governments and social media platforms have jumped into action to carry out the regulator’s orders. In the city of Jdu in Central China officials said two U social media account users were investigated for portraying the city in an unflattering light.And I just like imagine youMalcolm Collins: were, you were today. Like imagine if like for the San Francisco PO Maps or something. Yeah. We gotta take you down. Like LA Ducks and traffic is terrible, you know? Yeah. You come to your house, can’t, you can’t postSimone Collins: about that anymore. Yeah. You’re not, you’re not allowed into LA anymore.You’re banned, you’re shadow banned from la.Malcolm Collins: Such aSimone Collins: downerMalcolm Collins: about how terrible LA is. No. And before you further, I mean, for me, this is why I do not think it’s a good idea, even if broadly it’s a, it is a good thing to try to monitor social media because you’re like, well. On the whole, it’s probably doing more good than harm by removing these unrealistic lifestyles, by removing a lot of the downer nihilist posts.[00:22:00] A lot of the Yeah. Well, yeah, because I mean, we’ve seen people whose livesSimone Collins: have been ruined by DOR influencers.Malcolm Collins: Right. But I mean, I think that. At the end of the day, what’s going to happen is China is going to suffer from this,Because they are not building up the same mimetic and social immunity to this that’s we’re building up in the west.Agreed. Yes. And I think alsoSimone Collins: a degree of criticism is necessary. I mean, the article also points to an internet regulator in shehan. Another place in China where they’re, they’re taking down people for spreading false information about housing prices and real estate regulations. But are they really spreading false information?Like sometimes it’s, yeah, it’s probably accurateMalcolm Collins: information. Yeah. Yeah. You can’t say the economy’s bad. You know, that’s what happens when you begin to give governments these sorts of powers. Yeah. And the way that they’re using it at the local level for like intercommunity fights is a really big thing, and they’re even using this.Like hard line nationalists. That’s, and that’sSimone Collins: [00:23:00] what reallyMalcolm Collins: getsSimone Collins: me is so, there, to go back to this, this common prosperity initiative key policies and areas of, of the actual, like the, the more legislative economic things is education reforms. So they’re cracking down on for-profit private tutoring services.They’re trying to focus more on income distribution through tax policy and social insurance. They’re trying to. Fix housing policy by making housing more accessible to low and middle income. How of families? They’re trying to improve healthcare, they’re trying to revitalize rural areas. They’re, they’re trying to fix labor and tech regulations to address exploitative labor conditions.Yeah,they’re, they’re doing environmental things, so I’m just like, there are a lot of really good things that are happening, but then. What’s happening is like for example on Wabo it more than 1002 accounts were, were suspended for spreading rumors about the economy and government welfare programs.But as you pointed out, like with the ccp, there are a lot of adverse incentives that would prevent information [00:24:00] about corruption from making it to the higher echelons of the ccp. And I kind of see social media as a way to circumvent that. Like if people can surface. Fraud that is taking place with social welfare programs, for example, or with housing policy, then they can address it and actually execute.On this broad and, and actually like good sounding common prosperity initiative. But if instead these cities have this mandate and, and Right. Apparently to take down these, this false information Yeah. Then they won’t even be able to execute on the common prosperity initiative. So I, I feel like it in some ways it’s like, to, to your point, right, it’s well intentioned, but it’s not gonna work the way that they want it to.Yeah. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of scary.Malcolm Collins: Well, no, but I, I think that the, the, so one, it ends up being used and this is one of the problems in these big China bureaucrat things. You know, I have friends, and I guess I should talk about the fate of China more broadly as a [00:25:00] result of this,Where they you know.Listeners have reached out and they’ve been like, have, have you changed your position on China? Like, do you think it has a shot now? Like, you know, they’re like, I know you see China as this giant bureaucracy, but is not the US full of a lot of bureaucracies that are breaking down and incompetent. And my you know, through, through its authoritarian nature, China might be able to fix something about where the world is heading or what’s going to happen.And unfortunately the broad answer is extremely unlikely unless AI somehow acts as a solution for them. So I’ll explain to you why it’s unlikely if you studied the history of China, which I’m very interested in as a subject. I spend a lot of time studying. China really only gained its current economic dynamism because it began to loosen state control because it began to allow for private, not really ownership, but 99 year leases that nobody really [00:26:00] believed that they were gonna get rid of.We know nobody believed they would get rid of it because it helps us aren’t priced differently based on how long into the lease they are. Which implies that there is a broad social understanding that they would be renewed. But the point here being is China, you know, basically makes private land ownership legal in, in regions.China makes private companies legal, China, you know, loosens a lot of stuff. And this brings in outside investment. And this creates a degree of dynamism that led China to become a world power while other. Quote unquote communist countries, whether it be, you know, North Korea or you know, the, the Soviet Union never really were able to be.Now, if you look at the direction that China’s going right now, especially if you look at the hypotheses that people have around how China could fix its current scenario. The hypotheses are all, well, what China needs to do to fix things is it needs to [00:27:00] reconsolidate and it needs to exercise. Its centralized authority.But the problem is, is the more China moves in that direction. The less it will have. The only reason it has economic relevance on a global stage at all.Simone Collins: Hmm. AndMalcolm Collins: this is why we are seeing that economic relevance contract. Not only that, but it doesn’t even really have a role in sort of the global supply chain going forward.TheSimone Collins: well, isn’t it trying it, it tried to create that role and it tried to create alternate networks through the Belt and Road Initiative. Why do you discount that? Hmm.Malcolm Collins: Well, so the Belt and Road initiative is not what people think it is, at least in terms of a, a function. The Belt and Road initiative has become a way for Chinese elites to smuggle money out of the country.It’s not actually building up goodwill in the regions where it’s operating. And they, they’re doing things like, oh, we’ll get this region in a debt trap and then we’ll get this port and then we’ll get access to X. And it’s like, yeah, you can have contracts for all that until the next revolution. And you [00:28:00] just quote, unquote owned a port in Africa and you don’t have that port anymore.Or not, not meaningfully. Right. And so a lot of this stuff is very much like things that the US tried in the past and learned why you don’t do it. Like the Belt and Road initiative is very similar to the US period of sort of like us colonialism, I guess you’d call it. When the US decided to go out and be sort of the world police.China’s like, yes, but we’re doing it nefarious style. That will certainly work. And it’s like, no, it won’t. It won’t work. So, you haven’t seen, if you look at the, the results of the Belt and Road Initiative, a lot of actual meaningful goodwill out of like, outside of super poor like African countries, that’s goodwill doesn’t actually matter except like in, in terms of un votes.If you look at where China needs goodwill, where does it need goodwill? Like for where, where it could actually earn it. Okay. It’s probably not gonna win over Japan, right? But it could win over Vietnam and the Philippines and, oh, all these countries hate [00:29:00] China now more than they ever have. Like, that was, that was the wins it could have had was the belt and road that it didn’t get.So for that reason. I see one. China has basically a worse relationship with every one of the players that were up for grabs, I’d say five or six years ago. Mm-hmm. Now they’re no longer really up for grabs. Two. The huge, huge problem for China is, and, and, and they’re no longer up for grabs. No.They went from being up for grabs to not up for grabs during the period of Belt and road investment. Okay? If Belt and Road was working at all, that wouldn’t have happened, right? It doesn’t matter if poor, irrelevant country, that’s about to have another revolution in Africa, as your friend, you needed to get Vietnam and the Philippines on your side, and you effing failed, and keep in mind.China, China, Vietnam kicked your butt in a war not that long ago. Okay. They, they kicked our butt too, but they’re not our [00:30:00] neighbors. All right. You actually need them to like you. Next problem. Their relationship with India has gotten worse. Other major neighbor, like every one of their neighbors, effing, hates them now, like Russia is this close to like war with China.And the only reason we’re not seeing more conflict there is because Russia’s dependent on them because of the Ukraine sections. But China has overplayed its hand with them. They, they tried to do like a one currency thing and they ended up screwing over Russia. You don’t need to get the, the specifics of it, it’s just that China.Not doing great there. And then you’ve got the problem of how big the bureaucracy is. So if you look at like the United States, I do aware about that and we look at the inefficiency of the American bureaucracy, whether it’s like the, the Navy or whether it’s you know, anything else that we have, China is that times a thousand, right?And you can say they’re putting X mini billion into their new AI infrastructure. And it’s like, but that infrastructure is gonna be [00:31:00] China’s equivalent of. Managed by like our army, but like a hundred times less efficient. And we are getting that with Microsoft and Oracle and Google and Facebook all competing against each other.Which means that what we’re gonna produce is gonna be astronomically more efficient in, in, in the AI space, right? Like, and, and investment dollars. Why would you go into China with AI stuff when you could just go worry about being taken from you?Simone Collins: So, I mean,what I’m curious about though is sort of what you think about the likely efficacy or not of this larger social media effort.And I mean, one, I just wanna point out like China’s not alone in doing this. We’ve already covered how Russia has banned in both mainstream media and on social media. Not only. Gay stuff like gay, lesbian, bi, whatever, but also anything antinatalists, anything that, that, that promotes not having kids like being of Dick.Yeah.Yeah, yeah. Vietnam also has a lot of censorship and it also floods social media [00:32:00] with positive pro state messaging in Turkey, Iran, and Egypt. There are shuts downs there. There are arrests, there are legal actions against influencers who spread messages that they don’t think are helpful for the state.India, Brazil and others have platform bans. So they’ll just have legal take down demands over any sort of like harmful social content and even EU countries. They have regulation over what they call unfair market practices and also misinformation, which of course could be real information that they just don’t like.And some various authoritarian or even semit, authoritarianMalcolm Collins: right. And, and, and, and my thought on this is the exact thought I, I, I mentioned before, I think this will be very effective for a country like China in the short run. Mm-hmm. I think it’s going to be very damaging to them in the long run and the euSimone Collins: like, and so basically in all these countries, you, you, you think like.This is a short-term fix. It’s gonna cause long-term damage.Malcolm Collins: Yes. As I have said, memes and cultures [00:33:00] spread like viruses.Simone Collins: Mm.Malcolm Collins: Um right. You’ll have a movement like the feminist movement or you’ll have a movement like, you know, the trans phenomenon or something like that. Sometimes, like do, do I think that trans is ever really gonna spread within China?No. I think that that’s gonna be handled in the west before it had the time to really permeate China. But when I’m thinking of other phenomenon. By the way, we, we could do a whole other episode on this, but like, it’s, it’s very interesting to see the people that are still clinging to like trans normalization when like, even Blue Sky is like, no, we’re not banning like Transphobes anymore.Like, we don’t, like even Blue Sky is like, yeah, you guys can screech at us that they’re killing you, but we don’t care anymore. Like, you, you guys clearly just abused your P Power. It’s gone too far. Yeah. So, but the problem is, is that. The people who fall for this stuff, like Western nihilism and stuff like that mm-hmm.They are taken out of the cultural pool and they’re taken out of the gene pool of the next generation. And thenSimone Collins: like, let’s, let’s just let this happen naturally. But I mean, I think even the nihilists who are suppressed in [00:34:00] China, they’re still, they, there will still be people who lie flat. Yeah, no, thereMalcolm Collins: will still be, but I’m, I’m sort of viewing this the same way I knew COVID, right?Like, with COVID, I, we now know that the masks did nothing. They lowered short-term spread. But. Overall because through lowering short-term spread, they increased the number of non-immune people who were around. The death rates over time in these regions were broadly the same. This we’ve seen in studies of European death rates in, in regions that were very strictly controlled around mass.And regions that were not. And also in comparison between states that were strictly controlled and the states that were not strictly controlled within the United States, there just aren’t actually in the United States, the states that were less strictly controlled had lower overall death rates. But you could say that they’re more rural.And I’m like, okay, great. Yeah, like that makes sense. But the, the larger point here being is that it didn’t seem to work. And I think that what we’re looking here. Are masks, but for your brain and your eyes and your ears. And this is why I’m so against, you know, in that episode that, [00:35:00] you know, we ran today, right?Where I was like, you cannot beat this by restricting the social media your children have access to. You, you, you need to unionize them to these types of ideas. And that can only be done through information. It can not, so it, it wouldSimone Collins: be better for. Chinese officials to as, as they do right, they know how to flood the zone with content and comments to just shame the celebrity, worship, the doism, the consumerism.That’s what you would do if you were the ccp, is just make it embarrassing. Rather than censor it, makeMalcolm Collins: it embarrassing, produce state content about how it’s embarrassing, making fun of them. You know?Simone Collins: I feel like you also need to give something more though, and I, I, I guess what I couldn’t find from the research I did on this is, okay, what is China replacing this with?Because okay, I can’t be like minimalist and stoic. I also can’t be hyper consumerist and like extra vitalistic. I have to be [00:36:00] like, what? Nothing. Like I can’t be gay. I can’t be a, a celebrity fan. Like, what can I be? I, I guess, I don’t know.Malcolm Collins: You’ve got to, you can be a beige mom. That’s what they want is beige moms.They want to, no,Simone Collins: actually, the, the stereotype of beige moms is hyper consumeristic, so I’ll say I know,Malcolm Collins: but what they mean is, is middle they what they want, and this is important, it’s not consumerism that they’re against, it’s wealthy consumerism.Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.Malcolm Collins: They want everyone in the middle class rat race.That’s what they’re trying to do is build blinders to anything other than the middle class record. Well, and they’reSimone Collins: also trying to build policy mechanisms, economic, educational, et cetera, that also make that possible. They’re trying to redistribute income to create a thick middle class. I mean, I, I like the idea.Yeah. I mean, it’s always interesting to watch China because they have the ability to do things in a more fast and blunt way. Then, and they always f it up. I if that’s the problem. And may it’s, I mean, like you said, big brain bureaucracy doesn’t [00:37:00] helpMalcolm Collins: every time they do something. Right. And this is what I was talking about when I’m talking about like, putting these sorts of restrictions in.Mm-hmm. The restrictions get put in and then like one district is using them in a battle with, against another district because you’re trying to move up the communist hierarchy. And that’s how that, that that works, right? Like you end up turning the guns that you built against each other, right? Mm-hmm. But it’s, it’s.It is worse than that because you look at something like China’s bullet train system like that was genuinely working. It was great. It was amazing. And you can watch the videos on YouTube about how it’s going bankrupt and, and very dangerous to the country now because I knowSimone Collins: reallyMalcolm Collins: it did great. And then they decided, well then let’s just like double triple down on this.And they built a bunch of routes to areas that nobody uses. Oh, now the whole thing doesn’t work anymore. And. Economically speaking and we had this problem in the United States. I, I don’t know if you, if you know about this but we actually had, it was the way the airlines worked because we initially tried to mandate the way airlines worked.It’s a, it’s a confusing history. I’m not gonna [00:38:00] get into it, but basically. We then released the, the mandates and we moved to what’s called a hub and spoke model. Mm-hmm. And the cost of flying in the United States went down like 15 X or something. It was like, yeah, because weSimone Collins: let market forces essentially determine,Malcolm Collins: essentially determine it.But that’s the problem with these centralized systems. And we were at a pivotal turning point in human history with ai. And China can’t get around this just by building bigger data centers. And you can be like, oh no. Of course they could look at all the money they have. The problem is, is if that money’s on a 20 x or 30 x dilution spree, right?Because of the bureaucracy. And then in the United States, everybody knows AI is a future. And so every rich person wants to be involved in whatever AI thing is going to work, and so they’re pouring money and pouring money in. People are like, how is Amazon spending like. Like, I don’t know, like five times the amount of money on building out their AI platform than they spent on like AWS in the last X many years.That’s like their primary earning platform. [00:39:00] Mm-hmm. And it’s like, because everybody knows it’s a future. So every dollar in the world that from like the ultra wealthy is just pouring into it like an infinite money. Yeah.Simone Collins: Right.Malcolm Collins: And except to China, because nobody wants to be involved in a state controlled infrastructure project.Well, nobody’s smart.Simone Collins: All I can say then is I, I’m glad that we still in America have Becca Bloom. I think they’re making a second Crazy Rich Asians. Thank God. And we’re just gonna have to persist in this fantasy that China never cracked down on them. And that at least we have our American crazy rich Asians because we need them.Well, I, I love they do rich best. I feel like no one does rich better, like rich Russians just still have houses that are super ugly on the outside and then like crazy on the inside. No, I want everything crazy.Malcolm Collins: No rich Russians, they have a lot of like castles and stuff that they build in the forest, in their, in their, like the war Lauren type.Yeah. TheSimone Collins: stereotype is super ugly outside. Super. Lavish inside. There’s the, I was looking at it’s just depressing. Like,Malcolm Collins: oh my God, I hate Middle Eastern wealth. It is [00:40:00] so ugly. Their sense of style, everything. Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Asian wealth is amazing and EuropeanSimone Collins: wealth, I mean like old money is just like, you know, crumbling everything.It’s not, yeah. Everything’s fallingMalcolm Collins: apart because they don’t have anymore and American newSimone Collins: money isn’t that fun? So no, it has to be, yeah, I disagree.Malcolm Collins: I think American, like Connecticut wealth can be pretty nice again. Oh, waspySimone Collins: old money. Yeah. Yeah. WalkMalcolm Collins: me. But we, we were justSimone Collins: talking though offline about how that’s like pretty much over that there are influencers who try to keep that aesthetic alive, some of which I love to follow on Instagram, but they’re just do doing it to hawk their Halloween sweaters and socks and it’s, it’s all a fantasy.Like it’s not real. No one actually goes yachting anymore. No one actually wears, you know? Yeah. We knowMalcolm Collins: that the yacht industry is falling apart. I was watching a YouTube video on that recently. Not, not just yacht, but failing more broadly like a, yeah. But you know, I, Hey, I love our aesthetic, the old Stonehouse aesthetic, you know, the yeah, maybe techno.Simone Collins: Yeah, but that’s not, you know, it’s not an aspirational, hyper, hyper consumeristic thing, so, oh, well, I [00:41:00] supposeMalcolm Collins: it’s, it’s not consumeristic enough. But yeah, the, the, the, the closing point I was going to make is, I really think China’s just setting itself up for failure. And the point I was making earlier, which is so important for people to rock, is if the way that you think, like if your hypothesis is well, China can manage things in a centralized, top-down fashion, and that’s how they’re gonna get around.X problem. What you need to understand is every single dollar that China has right now, every great like, like their entire civilization rise in these last 30 years was because of deregulation. If you think the way they are going to get around one of their current problems just by tightening up.Recentralization. Mm-hmm. What you are saying is they are going to go back to the economic relevance that they had 20, 30 years ago, because that economic relevance didn’t come from like the Chinese people or something like that. They’re not that different from the Vietnamese or the you know, the, the Thai or any of the other [00:42:00] surrounding populations.It came from the. Fact that the government decentralized the economy and, and, and China before this was truly economically irrelevant. And if you think that they’re going to be able to, like, this is the thing where people think that like Saudi Arabia is gonna make this like NIM city and it’s gonna be economically relevant.Oh no.Simone Collins: Everyone knows NIMS neverMalcolm Collins: happening. That’s what China’s doing with AI right now. They’re making No, you think, okay, so you think China’sSimone Collins: ai is China’sMalcolm Collins: neo? Yeah. It’s, it’s not like really supposed to work. It’s supposed to look like it could work because that’s how you move up in the ccp and it’s not that it’s impossible that China could do something.Right. The problem is, is that Xi is the guy who’s in charge right now. And Xi is. Completely incompetent.Simone Collins: How old is he? Let’s see.Malcolm Collins: And unfortunately he has a fear of anyone replacing him. He’s 72 and so he’s basically cleared anyone out of high levels [00:43:00] of government who’s competent and could replace him.And apparently there’s like one guy who might be able to, but like Chyna really needs to get rid of she soon if it wants to have any chance of getting out of the disaster that it’s heading into right now. And I just don’t see that happening. So, yeah, well, but, but, but Belt and Road is not Ace Belt and Road.When people hear Belt and Road, they should think the opposite of a success, like an actual in the moment disaster of huge amounts of money flowing out of China for people who are just pocketing it and trying to escape before the ship sinks.Simone Collins: So we never get to visit China again. I hope you don’t regret that.I at least got to travel a lot there, so that was nice. And looking forward to hearing all the comments from our China experts who are gonna vehemently disagree with us because they think China’s just gonna kill it somehow.Malcolm Collins: If you like, seriously, the delusion of that belief, like. I can’t even, I, I, I [00:44:00] literally can’t even, it’s like the people who think the urban monoculture is gonna somehow work out.I’m like, but look at the statistics. Look at the statistics. Look at the statistics.Simone Collins: Rufuss is cracking his knuckles. Tim is, is stretching his hands out. Getting ready for that keyboard. We see you. We see you. Yeah. Love you guys. And I love you Malcolm. And I loveMalcolm Collins: Tex. Oh yeah. Tex came home. Look at this.He is alive. Just came home a few hours ago.Simone Collins: Yeah, likeMalcolm Collins: literally they did another x-ray. He is no longer got holes in his lungs. So, you know, we got a healthy kid for now. I mean, SIDS can happen. High probability in the first, you know, few weeks and months. Don’t say that. So like, let’s just get through this before we truly celebrate.But yeah, he is notSimone Collins: gonna be more than like 15 inches away from me for the next like six monthsMalcolm Collins: basically. Yeah. Putting an oxygen. We, we,Simone Collins: yeah, we got it. We got an ox, a foot oxygen cuff. I don’t care about the false alarms, it’s gonna give me and freak me out. I’m just, I don’t care. Okay. You know what? I don’t need to sleep for the nextMalcolm Collins: five kids now.Simone. Five. That’sSimone Collins: pretty great. [00:45:00] Love you.Malcolm Collins: Hey, we’re actual ISTs Now. That’s like a, a number of kids. It’s like four. No, that’s, we’ve,Simone Collins: we’ve reached Katherine LIC qualifications ‘cause she, for Hannah’s children only interviewed college educated women who had more than like five or more children. So I didn’t qualify as a mother, you know, before that.Now I do. I’m, I’m a LIC mother. And that’s saying a lot. She had eight of her own and then raised 16 total. So. We will get there. We need to. She’s so amazing. What a woman. What a woman. Malcolm, someday. What do you think? We can beat eight. I hope I I would love to at least do eight. I mean, seven’s obviously our bare minimum.Malcolm Collins: Well, I wanna beat at least Kevin Dolan and he’s at six.Simone Collins: Didn’t he just make it to seven?Malcolm Collins: Oh, he did. Dang well. Who can we beat? Have we beat Matt Walsh yet? At least? Let’s see, thought he had five. So maybeSimone Collins: we’re neck and neck with Matt [00:46:00] Walsh.Malcolm Collins: But all these people like got married. Oh, well, but they had two sets of twins. That’s kind of cheating still. NotSimone Collins: really. You go, you really go through it. When you have twins, that’s, I mean, talk about NICU time.Malcolm Collins: Well, I have, I have one donated kid, so I’m at six, at least genetically speaking.Simone Collins: Yeah. But I, I want, I want to raise, I want to raise a minimum of seven.All right. Hopefully eightMalcolm Collins: 12. Love you, Simone. I love youSimone Collins: too. All right.Malcolm Collins: Alright, so what do people think of today’s episode? Even though it did terribly for whatever reason, this was the 7 4 7 video on like the the Satanic Minecraft cult.Simone Collins: Yeah, I was surprised by that.Malcolm Collins: Who doesn’t wanna learn about a Satanic Minecraft cult? Maybe our audience is just not interested in. I can actually have to, to see if the issue was watch time or it was click through rate. The [00:47:00] watch time was high, but the click through rate with clickSimone Collins: okay. Gimme a second.Malcolm Collins: So what did people have to say about it?Simone Collins: They liked it. A a lot of people were sort of like, this is my approach to social media, which I think was, was good to hear. Yeah, the, I I think you saw the comment on original sin, which I thought was interesting. Oh yeah. Yeah. I like that one. I gave it like a this idea that like, you know, actually not all people are good as it happens and.That’s so true. ‘Cause I was kind of raised to believe that all people, I mean, my parents were like, yeah, there are a few people out there who aren’t good. But I don’t know, I was kind of just given the impression societally that you can just trust people and everyone’s good and it’s gonna be fine. And that led to problems that wasn’tMalcolm Collins: for you?Yes. Yes. Well, I think that’s a really toxic thing to teach young people. You know, I think viewing society adversarially is quite useful in terms of navigating it successfully.Simone Collins: Yeah,Malcolm Collins: absolutely.Simone Collins: I will, I’ll kick us off though. I, I think it was a great episode. I, I think maybe it’ll do well on the long tail.[00:48:00]We’ll see. We’ll see. But yeah oh, well, next week will be a better week and hopefully this, this will, this will do it.Malcolm Collins: All right, well, I’ll let you get started on this one.Simone Collins: Okay.Malcolm Collins: And I pulled up some data too that I can also go over.Simone Collins: Yeah. All right.Speaker 2: Twist, are you lost? Come on, let’s keep looking. Tighten to Octavian.Speaker 3: Go Exit. I go Exit find. Exit there. Okay,Speaker 5: go there. Do you think maybe you need to go under there? Yeah, go there. I.Speaker 6: Stay here. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Based Camp, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the disturbing world of the 764 Group—a cult that originated on Minecraft and Roblox, targeting vulnerable youth through online platforms. They discuss the shocking tactics used by the group, the psychological and societal factors that make children susceptible, and the broader implications for parents and communities. The conversation also explores the intersection of online radicalization, sexuality, and the importance of open dialogue with kids. Episode Transcript:Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be talking about a Satanic cult that was started on Minecraft by a 15-year-old onSimone Collins: Minecraft.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, yeah, it grew early on Minecraft and Roblox.And people can hear about this and they can be like, how bad can it be? Specifically, we’re gonna be going over these 7 6 4 group, which is linked to other groups in the Calm network, like the No Lives Matter movement, the Manic Murder Cult, the Sadistic Manic Cult, the Satanic Front oh goodie and the Mordoff Division.But anyway. So you might be hearing this and being like, how bad, how bad can this really be? It’s a bunch of children. So I’ll read from an article in Wired and then we’ll get to the article itself, but this is just sort of. Preview of the type of shenanigans they get up to. Okay. Cardin head and other members of this [00:01:00] group would lure young women into video chats and extort them into cutting themselves performing live what’s the word here?I, I should use actual acts or harming themselves. Eve a girl from the Midwest. When she was younger her, her mother recounted her daughter being drawn into the exploitation network through Gore servers on Discord. Where I’m gonna, just going forwards in this, whenever I’m talking about people who are, below certain age ranges, we’re just gonna use the word chicken instead. Okay. Okay, that sounds good. The word chicken instead. Okay. I think I can handle that. Okay. Where chickens would watch ultra violent content what 7, 6 4 would do is they would go in and drop videos in these groups and try to start pulling kids out of it and into that server.Before I go further this is actually really interesting before we get into what happened to this girl is, is how they did it. So they take gore and other extreme content. Okay. And they do bit into [00:02:00] things like Minecraft or Roblox or Children’s discord servers.Simone Collins: Oh. So like Elsa Gate, but on steroids and way worse.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, because it’s very intentional. Well, it’s different than that because with Elsa Gate it’s like, oh, this stuff is doing well with kids or anything like that. This is more like if you’re at that edgy phase of like being young, you know, like let’s say you’re like 10 or 11 or something like that.Yeah. And you’re like, oh, I’m not allowed to talk about this sort of stuff. Mm-hmm. You know, somebody dumps it and you’re like, oh, this is where the edgy cool kids are. Let’s go to their town. Like, let’s go to their server.Mm-hmm.So the moderator of 7 6 4 server who went by Brad, one of the aliases connected to Caden head, quote unquote groomed her daughter through false shows of affection and convincing them to send unclosed photographs.Once they established a degree of trust, Caden and the Exhorters threatened to harm her elementary school aged brother. Or release the explicit photographs on video calls. They would urge her to unli herself and convince her to carve [00:03:00] usernames of members of the server into her skin.Oh my gosh.They talk later in the piece that I think like half a decade or a decade later, she still has some of these scars. Oh oh, this is screwed up. They pressured her to strangle her cat and even behead her hamster on camera. Wait, and sheSimone Collins: did it.Malcolm Collins: Yes, but biting its head off. They said, bite the head off or I’ll f up your whole life.Oh a username. Felix told Eve on video. Oh. During the police investigation, Felix was an alias associated with the IP address linked to Caden head. Eve did all of this from her bedroom closet. Things took a turn for the worse when she cut herself too deeply one night in the bathtub and turned the waters red, like one of her exhorters had requested.They also swatted the family’s house and began calling her school and telling the principal she tried to murder animals, prompting school officials to file a report to the police. You just don’t realize how quickly it can happen. Eve’s mother [00:04:00] said, according to her mother, FBI did not reach out to Eve until December, 2023.The Stevensville Police Department was not aware of Eve’s victimization by Camden Head, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Until two years after his arrest Eve’s mother said, FBI Agents contacted her the following months and asked for details, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sorry, I, I, I skip ahead a lot when I’m reading pieces for stuff you guys don’t care about.An interview with Canon had gave the probation SER services, confirmed the general details of E story. Bradley did admit to the group’s use of the servers to do that sort of extortion on individuals. That thread said they would do this for money and sometimes just for power over individuals. Oh mygosh.And Caden had himself admitted, urging users of the server to carve his initials into their bodies as a form of ho homage, and described his servers as a cult and himself as a venerated leader. Last spring, this guy Caden had, who we’ll get to later, 18 years old, 15 when he started the group, was sentenced to jail for 80 [00:05:00] years.Simone Collins: Well, okay. At least there was that was Well,Malcolm Collins: no, no, no, no, no. There’s, there’s unfortunately many other individuals in, in, in this group, they we’re gonna be going over a series of the arrests, but you typically don’t know of what they’ve done until after they’ve been arrested.Simone Collins: I can’t believe So we’re actually talking about this because I heard Catherine d mention it on a blocked and reported episode this morning.Like I’d never heard of it before and I can’t believe I’ve never heard of it. ‘cause this is so. Grizzly and horrible, and it’s something to which so many of our kids are vulnerable. One thing that’s getting a lot of coverage recently is porta potty pot parties in Dubai. Have you heard of them?Malcolm Collins: No. Tell me.Oh, yeah. Well, they take women or whatever to, to explain.Simone Collins: Well, no, basically, so yeah, like really, really wealthy men in Dubai offer to pay like Instagram models and influencers who are really, you know, like. Attractive women between, you know, tens of thousands to even over a hundred thousand dollars to come out to these really debauched parties where they make them like eat poop and urinate [00:06:00] in their mouths and things like that.Right? Yeah. But like these are adult women who are making really bad judgements and you know, they’re signing NDAs and they’re making a lot of money from it. And now there are cases of women unliving themselves after this. Or even potentially being, having their lives non consensually ended if they like, refuse to comply during the parties. Like, I’m not saying these don’t go wrong, but this is like women getting themselves into it. Right? It then, but then, then they’re getting a lot of coverage. The fact that this is happening. To young children whose parents think that they’re just having fun on Roblox.No,Malcolm Collins: but I, I think that that actually undersells the scope of this. Yeah. If you look at this, there are as many, if not more people in the young perpetrator category. Yeah. I’m talking. You know, around the age of like, let’s say 15 to like 17. Right. Then there are in the victim category. So when you think about your kids and how they get sucked into this mm-hmm.You [00:07:00] shouldn’t just be thinking about your kids as potential victims. Right. But as potential perpetrators.Simone Collins: Yeah. And like, again, like there are only so many rich men in Dubai. I mean, there’s a lot Right. That are, that have like, you know, really, really, yeah. Fetishes that they wanna act on and are willing to do it.Like, but like there, there’s an endless number of screwed up. Adolescents and the fact that, well,Malcolm Collins: I think all adolescents are intrinsically screwed up.Simone Collins: Yeah. But now there’s this, this pipeline to like incredibly evil acts.Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah. But I think the pipeline is actually in a way created by the parents.And we’ll get to that. A another thing I note here, if you’re like, how is this stuff done at scale in the way it’s, it’s happening. Okay. It is, so later on the, the piece goes, the abuse was systemic and even codified in writing. A user was the alias, convict, circulated. A how-to guide for grooming potential victims that identifies chickens with mental disorders and illnesses as the most susceptible to manipulation.Oh, of course, thedetailed instructions document how to Fein affection and draw victims into influence. Oh, and then turn attention into [00:08:00] negative enforcement in so self-doubt. In order to bring the person to the edge of a quote unquote borderline episode, the Guide reads quote, when they hit an episode, continue to break them down until they seem defeated in quote.Simone Collins: That is so sick. Oh yeah. God, how are we on? And, well, I’m glad we’re learning about this as parents.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So I, I, we will go into this as, as we get into specific examples and stuff like that. I mean, people can imagine all the examples end up being somewhat samey, if I’m gonna say, if salacious. But I think it’s more interesting now we’re at the beginning and we’re talking the hook to talk about the theory around all of this and what’s happening in our society.Okay.A lot of the pieces on this will be like, this chicken started to engage with online erotic material at like X young age. Yeah. And that material involved Gore. That is how they were brought into these communities. The problem is, is, you know, [00:09:00] when we did our you know, sexual survey for our arousal pattern stuff.Mm-hmm. One generally if kids are on the internet, they are engaging with erotic material if they are at all counterculture, right? Like that.Simone Collins: Oh, not even that. I mean, I, I listened to a whole podcast on just those. Those weird mobile ads for games that ultimately are like 100% about fetishes, like foot fetishes and vore and all these things.Mm-hmm. Like you’ll, you’ll even see it if literally you’re just exposed to mobile game ads. But go on.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, no, I point out with something like Voor or something. In the book, one of the statistics I always loved is the percent of the American population that is aroused by vore, that is people eating other people is larger than the population that lives in the state of Massachusetts, which is like the fifth most populous state or something.Yeah, to give you some scale, so we’re not talking about, and if you’re talking about. Any of these more you know, sort of, gore related, sadism related. Masochism related. [00:10:00] Like any of the ones, like we’re not supposed to talk about arousal categories. If you put those all together, you’re probably looking at like 25% of the population.Simone Collins: Yeah. And just to be clear, and this is something that Malcolm emphasizes. Again and again in the Pragma Dis Guide to Sexuality. Just because something turns you on doesn’t mean you morally endorse. It doesn’t mean you practice it, et cetera. Like a lot of these people clearly are going way too far with these, but just because you’re turned on by this doesn’t mean you sh should, can, or even are morally okay with doing this.Any of that. Okay. But,Malcolm Collins: but consider what’s happening in these kids’ minds. Mm-hmm. From the perspective of the way the parents have normalized different forms of sexuality and arousal content. Okay. So, yeah. They hit, you know, 15, 16, whatever they start being aroused by things if they all don’t have another explanation forsure.And they see stuff, whether it is masochistic related content for many of these young girls, I, I would not be surprised given how common young girl masochists were when I was you know, [00:11:00] like in high school and stuff like that.Simone Collins: Yeah.Malcolm Collins: Cutting wasSimone Collins: so common in my middle school and high school.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Not, not, not even just normal cutting, but I’m talking like more direct mass because at one of the pieces they’re like like he like cut the girl and like drank her blood or something like that. And I’m like, bro, I know so many people who were into like vampire stuff. Oh, well, yeah. I mean, yeah.At those ages, that’s obvious enough. Yeah. But here’s the problem. It’s the media. And it’s the parents who teach the kids that when what they, the kids don’t realize are fairly common arousal patterns, right? Mm-hmm. When these start to emerge in them they are the only, the only evoke set they have is If I am getting X impulses, I must be an evil satanist, right?Oh, oh, yeah. Because no oneSimone Collins: has told them that a lot of people feel this way and it. Doesn’t correlate with what you morally condone or Yeah, it doesn’t mean it’s just not in order to act on it. Yeah,Malcolm Collins: yeah, yeah, yeah. You can, you can feel something. That doesn’t mean you have to act [00:12:00] on it. That doesn’t mean to Yes, but that’s not the way this is contextualized for them.You’re totally right. Only evil people. Like engaging with this sort of stuff.Yeah.And because the kids are taught that at this very young age, when they’re trying to figure out who am I? Right? They don’t know who they are yet. Yeah. They say, well, if only evil people find this stuff alluring, then I am evil.And then what they do is they begin to Evil Max they begin to take. All of these other things, they associate with vague evilness. So what you’ll notice about these groups is they don’t often have like a coherent ideology. They’re not attempting to achieve any specific end in the world. They’re described as nihilistic, but nihilism is the wrong way to put it because they’re quite agentic for nihilists.You are right?Yeah.They’re not really nihilistic. They have an [00:13:00] agenda. Right. But what the agenda is, is a collection of all of the ideas and motivations and ideologies that society has told them. Whether it’s Nazi ideology or satanic worship, like Nazism and Satanic worship are. Actually pretty antithetical ideologies.Yes. If you actually look right well, no, no, you see this with the type of like iil who’s like a white nationalist and like a Catholic integralist which is like weirdly common among like the Nick Fuentes crowd because, you know, he’s a Catholic integralist and some people think he’s like white nationalist.So he and, and these two things are literally directly antithetical. The, the. Kku Klux Klan was specifically interested in wiping out blacks, Catholics, and Jews. Like Catholics were just as bad as blacks to the Klan. Yeah, true. And yet they will identify as that and this other thing because in [00:14:00] their.Progressive minds. I actually think that this is how people adopt these antithetical ideologies. They grow up in progressive urban monocultural households and they go, what are the most evil groups I could associate with? Oh, let’s go Nazi. KKK, and you know, some extremist religious Christian group.This very traditionalist, like Catholic nationalism.Mm-hmm.And it, it, it forms a completely incoherent ideology. Or you look at these kids who grew up very sort of in more normy families and stuff like that. And it’s okay. What’s the most evil things that could happen? I’m an evil person now.No, I know that because my entire life I’ve been told that people that wanna engage with X or Y are evil.Simone Collins: Yeah. Or that feel good when exposed to. Well, some form of good aroused when they exposed to X or Y.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And when sometimes it’s not even arousal, sometimes it’s just like, this is interesting to me.Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like I was told that this would repel me, and yet I find it curious and interesting and I want to know more.Simone Collins: Yeah. And they, [00:15:00] they, they assume that’s conflated with them, endorsing it somehow. And it’s not, it’s not,Malcolm Collins: no. But then they get into communities, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Communities that collect content like this and they share content like this and they want to be involved in those communities, status hierarchies.Because that’s just sort of naturally what happens to kids. They say, okay. You know, I’m an X or Y group. Now this is a group of people who are like me because my parents are not like me. They have signaled people who like X, Y, Z, they’re, they’re evil. Right?Simone Collins: Right.Malcolm Collins: And so I am going to. Try to, because, because our brains, our animal brain is like, okay, who’s your tribe?They’re like, this is my tribe. What does my tribe do? It tries to get chickens to bite their pet’s head off in, in closets while filming it. Right now I need to do more than that. Like that’s how status is earned within these communities, which, which made the articles go into and I need to do more than that and I need to do more than that, and I need to do more than that.And people can be like, well, I monitor my kids’ online activity. And it’s like, [00:16:00] you. Cannot fully monitor your kid’s online activity once a kid is 15. If they are a smart kid.Yeah. When they’rean agentic kid, which you should hope your kids are.Simone Collins: Yeah.Malcolm Collins: They will understand technology at a level that you don’t.Mm-hmm. You cannot monitor a 15 year old’s activity on the internet any more than your parents could have monitored you at 15 on the internet.Simone Collins: You see that’s a great way of putting it. Yeah, yeah,Malcolm Collins: yeah. You simply know more about how computers work than they do. Mm-hmm. And they will simply know more about how AI and whatever the computers, if tomorrow work and you’re like, well, I monitor they’re a PC and I monitor their phone and I monitor their, their tablet. And I’m like, well, I mean, you do know that you can buy a cheap burner phone for like. 40 bucks, right on like eBay or something that’s a few years old and that can access any discord server, any online forum. They don’t need top of the line hardware for this.And then you’re like, oh shoot, I hadn’t thought of that. Where would [00:17:00] my kid hide a burner phone? You don’t know where. They’d hide a burner phone. It could be at school. The only way around seeing your kids radicalized is. And people can be like, well, look, in my generation, this is one of the things, and this is why, you know, many people on our, on our show or in our comments know that we are like, look, I’m not saying pornography is like the best thing ever, but I am saying, or even.Fetishize pornography or, or online, things like that. But I am saying that building too much of a negative stigma around them within the current online social context gives attackers a very easy pathway to your kids. And, and keep in mind it’s not just this type of content. I mean, like, what about furry content?Like, if, if you tell them that these people are weird degenerates and then they watch something like that, you know, now if you’re adding like, furry stuff, furry stuff in here, you’re not getting like. Yeah, like e every, everything that could potentially be derided by somebody that turns somebody on, you’re getting to like 50% of the population now.You know? You now they’re like, oh, well I’m a [00:18:00] furry and furries are evil, so I’m gonna do a bunch of evil stuff. And so the question is, is how do you, how do you. Go over this stuff with your kids. Well, one, we offered the Pragma to guide to sexuality for like 99 cents. I think it is a fairly good book that does not glorify arousal or sexuality, but also doesn’t put too much negative stigma.I will say it has a slight negative stigma throughout the book on it, which is like, humans are gross, humans do gross things. But like you’re still a human. It’s, I think, a pretty good book for parents to go over with their kids in the same way that like, my parents would go over I dunno if your parents did with you, like the, the puberty books that are supposed to teach you about, like,Simone Collins: oh no, we didn’t do that.Malcolm Collins: What’s gonna happen at puberty? No. That’s what I’d probably go over with my kids because I think it explains so many aspects of arousal and gender identity in a way that is better than the lgbtq plus community does. From the perspective of. Like some of the things we point out [00:19:00] is that grouping humans into gay or straight as categories basically makes no sense when you consider that.The number of people who are aroused predominantly by swapped genitals. So by this what I mean is they will find sorry, primary and secondary sex characteristics, primary sex characteristics of sexual characteristics used in the mating process. Secondary sex characteristics are stuff like.Breasts or hand size or like broadSimone Collins: shoulders?Malcolm Collins: Broad shoulders. Right. The, the broadly fear beard form, right? Yeah. So, the percentage of people who are aroused by one set of primary sex characteristics and the other set of secondary sex characteristics is larger than the population that is aroused by, or I think it’s like around the size of the population.I can’t remember. It is, it’s big to the point where. If you’re talking about the community that arise by matching yet opposite sex characteristics you’re like, oh, this isn’t like a, particularly in terms of unusual arousal patterns [00:20:00] particularly pronounced enough to define it as a totally new type of humanity or something.And this helps when you’re going through all this with kids because then they’re like, oh, when somebody comes up and tries to feed them this stuff, they’re like it reminds me of when I was a kid. And one of the things my mom did was me. That really helped me not get into drug culture as a kid is when I was younger, she would smoke marijuana with me.And so, it was a, it was a momSimone Collins: thing and therefore a not rebellious thing.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I thought it was like an old lady thing. Like people would come and they’d be like, and it made it much easier for me to turn them down. Was. Feeling like I’m being excluded. Yeah.Where they would come and they’d be like, Hey, do you want marijuana?And I was like, I can always get marijuana from my mom. Like, yeah. Why, why do I want it from you? Your marijuana could be laced with something. Yeah. And this immediately one sort of frames to them, I’m actually way cooler than you. And in a way, cooler environment and household and everything like that.That’s true. Two. I’m doing it in a subversive way. Like, well, you don’t know what [00:21:00] that’s been cut with. Like how, how reliable is your dealer? How did you source him? Yeah. You know, now all of a sudden you’re coming at this from a totally different Oh, that’s mom stuff. Yeah. And I wanna do that for sexuality with our kids.Actually, the intro to the pregnant, this guy to sexuality is, we pray that this book ruins or something like that. We’re sorry for this one. It was like that it’sSimone Collins: dedicated to our children for whom we’ve just ruined sexuality.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But yeah. Anyway. I’m gonna keep going here, but anything you wanna say before I go further?Simone Collins: No, I, I very much agree with what you say and do think that in that sense, we’re setting up our kids pretty well to be prepared for this though. I like all this sort of like, chat room medicalization stuff. I think Mm, I need to put more thought into that.Malcolm Collins: Hmm. Oh, there’s just so little you can do. So little you can do.You really need to give them a good friend network. Work really hard to make sure they have good friends. Mm. Online friends because that’s where their best friends are likely to be, which is why we focus on networking, why we create. You know, the Discord server we have and everything like that, because [00:22:00] I want environments where I would feel safe.Like I know on the Basecamp Discord server, nobody’s getting groomed. Nobody’s getting radicalized. Like it’s just too diverse in the, in the number of perspectives that are, that are within it. And so it’s a great environment for my kids as they get older.Mm-hmm. Right.And, and. I think that what I would, you know, put upon people within the Discord server especially, is when young people are in the server you know, be very supportive and make them feel important.Because that’s what people, young people especially want from online communities.Simone Collins: Yeah. Because there is sort of the opposite type of online communities. It’s like, I think Okay. Within limits. The effective altruism slash rationalist community for teens has been really good. Like they’ve jumpstarted their careers, raised money.Sometimes it doesn’t go so well, but like there are some instances of of teens entering tight-knit communities that start online, that lead them to accelerate their maturation and education and empowerment. So it’s not like it’s all bad. And I just [00:23:00] has to be careful, I guess. IMalcolm Collins: mean, I don’t think EA communities are safe anymore.Simone Collins: Yeah. But they used to be, I mean like we met so many young people who were like incredibly mature, incredibly entrepreneurial VI,Malcolm Collins: literally came out of the EA community. I know. ISimone Collins: know. It’s just, we’ve also met many young people who have been really nicely shaped by it and the connections I made within it.So it’s ThatMalcolm Collins: was in the last generation.Simone Collins: Yeah.Malcolm Collins: I don’t think it’s, yeah, I guess notSimone Collins: anymore, but I’m just saying that there have been historical examples of, of online communities. I mean, I think theMalcolm Collins: base base camp is the new safe EA community.Simone Collins: Hopefully,Malcolm Collins: like that’s, that’s what we’ve been becoming. That’s what the prenatal movements have been becoming.Because if you go to the normal one, it’s all like AI doism. I have no reason to live anymore. Know that’s very toxic book tour. But anyway, the FBI and other foreign law enforcement agencies are investigating 764 for both.Simone Collins: Are you trying to find a YouTube safe way to put this?Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Chicken meel. [00:24:00] Assault,Offenses and terrorism because of connections to the Order of Nine Angels, a Satanist cult from Great Britain that has been ever present in the online edge, Lord and militant neo-Nazi circles for over a past decade.Oh, no watch’s. Nazi memes and acceleration, accelerationist propaganda glorifying homicidal members of white supremacist groups like ANR division frequently appear in the extortion group’s. Telegram shots well. Many users of fear unfamiliar with zero nine a dogma, the sex symbols, text and aesthetic have been widely co-opted within the group for shock value.The practice of urging victims to injure themselves with cut signs also bears a striking resemblance to oh nine A rituals. Now I’m gonna get into oh nine A, but I think you see the media is misunderstanding what’s going on here. They say they’re getting into this for quote unquote shock value, and I don’t think that’s it.I think they found one thing interesting and now they assume all things that they’ve [00:25:00] coded negative in their mind must be co coded, is interesting. Mm-hmm. So to continue with a different piece here, ‘cause I’m skipping to a new piece that’s discussing this. Oh nine, A group that they’re affiliated with, a US soldier has been accused of plotting an attack on his own unit by sending information to an obscure Nazi satanist organization called The Order of Nine Angels.But who are they? I founded in the UK in the 1970s. The ONA is an increasing focus for law enforcement and appears as an influence in several recent UK terrorism prosecutions relating to extreme right wing stuff. And, and again here of course, just whenever they don’t, like, whenever they see Nazis.Even though Nazis are far closer to modern socialists than anything, right wing hey, they even hate the Jews. You know, they’reSimone Collins: national socialists.Malcolm Collins: And a lot of people are like, they weren’t socialists in the way that they’re socialists we talk about today. And I’m like, no, they, no. Literally were socialists in every economic way.You could use the word socialist. Come on guys. We have another video where we go into that and I might [00:26:00] put just another one, like just how socialists were the national socialists and it is very socialist.Hmm.And very anti-Semitic. The National Socialists today, and they divided people based on rights and ethnicity and sexual orientation, just like progressives today.They’re like, oh, but we do it with different ethnicities. And it’s like, it doesn’t matter, man. It is the dividing humans based on that stuff. So, anyway, I, I consider these groups to be left wing, whatever your politics are you wanna call it. But anyway, continue. So the group at Lionizes the Nazi era and dates its calendar from the birth of Adolf Hitler.But its supernatural belief system goes beyond anything normally associated with right-wing extremism. So note here, again, I’m saying they’re just trying to evil Max. They, they start their calendar with Adolf Hitler’s birthday, right? In the short term, the goal is to undermine what they characterize as decent Judeo-Christian society.So note here, I love it that they say that they’re an extreme right-wing group and they are an explicitly anti-Christian group with an emphasis on placed real world attacks. The aim being a new [00:27:00] imperial civilization based on a. Cruel mixture of social Darwinism, satanism, and fascism adherence are encouraged to secretly infiltrate government organizations such as the military or Christian churches in order to destabilize them from within.Those who progress through the O a’s hierarchical ranks are required to undertake various tasks, including forming their own small groups to prove their leadership abilities. Was a result that a decentralized network of associated bodies exists throughout various countries. There is a total rejection of Essex and some key texts, even discuss virtual sacrifice, both symbolic and actual such groups reject attempts at gaining popular support on the extreme right because they’re anti-Christian.They’re not right wing at all anyway whether through demonstrations or campaigns and are instead committed to an ideology of so-called accelerationism, which predicts societal collapse and racial warfare, seeking to speed the process up through acts of violence. Well, really what they’re often trying to do is increase speeds and stuff like [00:28:00] immigration and stuff like that.‘cause they think it’ll lead to social warfare, which they can take advantage of. So they support pretty much only left wing causes, but, okay, let’s. The ideology is promoted in several online spaces, and that is where it blended with ideologies by ONA, giving the latter and increased influence and the further edges of the online community.The Durham Teen neo-Nazi became, quote unquote, the Living Dead. Somebody said about him. This last year, a 16-year-old British boy became the youngest person to be convinced of planning a terror attack in the uk, and he was influenced by this.Simone Collins: Goodness gracious.Malcolm Collins: So we can talk about the 15-year-old who started all this.Yeah. Can read his Wikipedia. Okay. He was bullied during his high school years. A classmate called him an easy target in his early teens. He suffered multiple psychological breakdowns and was isolated. He told probation officers that he stopped caring about anything, and after dropping outta school at 15, withdrew to his room.He found the online network and named it after his zip code of his hometown. So that’s, that’s where it is, Steven. [00:29:00] Ah,okay.Kahan had noticeably been disruptive as a student. At the age of 10, he was fascinated by graphic online content depicting murder and torture. He assisted principal alerted authorities about him leading to an investigation into terrorist threats.Despite disciplinary measures, he continued to use school computers to draw images of school. Goul bangings pow POWs like our kid got in trouble for, they say, oh, somebody, he drew a picture of a dead person. But you see, we don’t stigmatize that. Mm-hmm. When our kid does that, we don’t stigmatize it, which means it never becomes alluring to him.It is boring parent stuff.Simone Collins: Well, yeah, we we’re, we’re not like, that’s an evil thing. That means that you must be an evil person.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I actually talked with the school about this. They’re like, well, I mean, look at all these raising rights of violence in schools and stuff like this. Why do you want to normalize this for your kid?And I go, those rates have have occurred. In correlation with the resilience, with the rate that you have [00:30:00] not normalized this behavior in young boys. He can’t talk about guns. He got in trouble for talking about a nuan school. He can’t draw. People who are are, are dead. He can’t draw people with a gun. He can’t draw people with a knife.I was like, when can he draw like Roman soldiers in a battle or something like that? It it like, how old did he have to be? And they’re like, well, I don’t think. Even in high school, you’d be allowed to do that today. And I’m like, well, do you know how often men think about Rome? You know, how many times a day, you know, you, you are suppressing completely normal thoughts in his head, which leads to radicalization.And, and when we talk about like, just how, how far this goes Jason Curo, who is a judge who was going over him, said of him in court, there is something horribly wrong with you horribly. Where it’s like they’re looking at stuff that they haven’t bench lined. They don’t know the percent of young boys who find this type of thing interesting.And they just assume because it’s not normalized in their communities. And keep in [00:31:00] mind how much you chill out as an adult. Okay. And as a young kid, there were many times where I was like, well, who am I? Like, am I evil because of X? Like, am I supposed to lean into that because and I think this is a really, really toxic thing to teach young people.Simone Collins: Agreed. Totally.Malcolm Collins: And you can see here the nihilism that is pervasive in many young kids makes this easier. But nihilism in use has always been a thing. Like people were like, come on. Yeah. Young kids in the nineties weren’t nihilistic. I was like, okay, what a you. You literally went from like the goth who were incredibly nihilistic.The emos who are like a different. Brand of nihilism.Simone Collins: Yeah. ToMalcolm Collins: the vampire kids who were yet a different brand of nihilism.Speaker: Okay. Different how they’re, you know, one is good and, and Emos are horrible. They’re, you know, they’re posers. Emos suck my golf balls. Alright. Alright. Think of it this way. A golf [00:32:00] believes that deep down the world is totally up, but an emo thinks that deep down they are totally. That’s not much of a difference.Speaker 3: That’s a huge difference. Okay. Okay. Look, emos are more prone to suicide this b***h man. But goths are more prone to be depressed that so many people commit suicide go’s. Darkness is nihilistic, whereas Emos is cynical. Wait, I thought we were cynical. Well, well, whatever. It doesn’t matter. No. Say you’re nihilistic.Oh yeah. You.Simone Collins: Yeah. This is just so normal. You’re going through it with adolescents, it’s, it’s gonna happen. And then on top of that, I mean, you also point out like, you know, a lot of this is based on people sort of realizing there are, they’re aroused by stuff.Your arousal levels, especially if I think you’re an adolescent male, are at their peak during these years. They’re out of control. So even people who are adults were like, oh yeah. I mean, I guess I could kind of see no man, like it must be so much stronger for what they’re experiencing as well.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. If you go going into other [00:33:00] choice pieces from this this is about another user.Mm-hmm.And 2021, according to court records, Alameda posted a photograph of a bound in gag, half dressed chicken with a caption. Life’s always been. S**T still I see passed through rose colored lenses.Simone Collins: Oh, this is so sick. Oh.Malcolm Collins: And yeah, they were talking about how on the other guy’s phone they found 20 images of his, his online moniker carved into people that they had carved into themselves.And in this other one they’re talking about, this guy was showing that there were at least multiple chicken victims who he had got to engage in, in acts,Simone Collins: gosh, that’s so screwed up.Malcolm Collins: But the problem with when I read all of this is they keep collating normal teenage behavior. With evil behavior, even in the way [00:34:00] that this stuff is covered.And it’s just, you know, oh, you drew people fighting, you know, and you’re a young boy, that must mean you’re a psychopath. It’s like, no, you know, you wanted to have secret fights with other kids, or you wanted to,Simone Collins: yeah. I mean, how, how did this founder ultimately get all this time alone in his room to learn how to radicalize and then torture chickens?It was because he was first bullied and then kicked outta school and then treated like some kind of pariah. You’re absolutely right. I mean, this didn’t have to happen. Yeah. I mean, he, he might’ve been a little weird always. I, I doubt that he wouldn’t be right, but it didn’t have to be like this.Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, you see how easy it’s to radicalize, like you saw the, the people who are radicalized into the Charlie Kirk shooting, and they all come from Mormon communities.Mm-hmm. And then are exposed to alternate sexual identities and immediately their brain goes crazy. Right? Like, if, if, if you do not vaccinate your kids against this and you cannot vaccinate somebody with hate, [00:35:00] hate actually makes it easier for them to flip. Yeah. ‘cause the moment they engage with somebody and they’re like, oh, this person isn’t evil, like my parents said, then they throw out every other warning.You came about that group of people.Simone Collins: Well, and you also can’t vaccinate your kids if you don’t vaccinate your kids. Meaning that if you just shelter them and are like, well, we’ll just keep you away from those people.Malcolm Collins: Yeah.Simone Collins: It’s not gonna protect them. And you’reMalcolm Collins: like, well, you’ll future enough. The thing about the Charlie Kirk shooting with Tyler Robinson is, he didn’t radicalize until he was, what age age was he when all this happened? Like 19 or something? Yeah. ISimone Collins: mean, well into his college career it seems, when he started living on his own.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Which is when I think a lot of parents think that you’re safe.Right,Simone Collins: right. Like you’ve left the nest. I, I’ve done my job. It is all good now.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And so this is just a conversation that I think within the, the, the circles of society that we plan on continuing to survive that like really, really needs to be had. What’s actually fascinating about it is, I [00:36:00] think it’s also how, because you saw this with the Tyler Robinson shooting and everything like that is originally he and his partner had at different times been when they killed Charlie Kirk, they were left wing radicals.Mm-hmm. But they had been interested in Right, right-wing ideas beforehand. Like there’s. Forum posts about them complaining about white discrimination. We know that the trans roommate of the shooter was really into Jordan Peterson. He, he even apparently was into that till the end. You know, and, and I wouldn’t say Jordan Peterson is radicalized, but you know what I mean.Like, they, they’re involved in sort of these edgy forums. And I do think that some, you know, young people get involved in conservative circles. Because they were raised by urban monoculture parents. In the same way that we need to worry about our kids joining a Satanic sex cult. They have to worry about their kids joining, you know, our sorts of circles.But the problem is, is when they join and then they become growers. And this is what I think you need to, like, recognize when you’re, when you’re talking about any of this, is that did you meanSimone Collins: to sayMalcolm Collins: gripes, griper, [00:37:00] whatever they’re called.Simone Collins: Sorry. Someone in the comment had noticed that the last time you did this, I mean, it’s, it’s obviously tradition for you to things I love, but the pointMalcolm Collins: being is that the people who go in right wing message boards and are like, yeah, we actually should like hate the Jews, or, you know, we actually should you know, hate gay populations or we actually should you know.By the way, Charlie Kirk was not saying that stuff. He was saying, the Bible says that you shouldn’t do this stuff. Mm-hmm. He wasn’t saying that you should hate these people.Mm-hmm.Right. And yet these people come into our spaces and you need to see them as being no different than these people on the left.They, they aren’t really part of the wider ideological movement. Like, oh yeah, we really should you know, create you know, like an all white nation or something like that. Right. Like, these individuals are, just our community sort of ticks, like their community has ticks and they can grow and radicalize people into becoming shooters.Like just, what was it recently? There was a shooting [00:38:00] at ICE or something. A a against, not the ice officers this time, but against the migrants. Right. And so it is our job to prevent that by pointing out how pathetic these individuals are and there isn’t really a coherent philosophy behind what they believe.Yeah. It’s just that their parents told them these things were naughty, and society told them these things were naughty and now they think they’re being cool by doing. Yeah. It, it’sSimone Collins: philosophically vacant. Edge lords desperate for attention. It is the most thirsty and sad thing you can ever do.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And, and this is something that we’ve promoted on other recent podcast, is the topic of post racism, which I think we as a society need to move towards, which is.The old definitions of racism and non racism, they don’t really matter anymore. Everybody could say, oh, you are racist, or You are racist. By the nineties definition, it’s like, whatever. Like clearly the wokes have some new definition of what racist is. And clearly the right is like, I don’t even see why we’re like focused on this word when, you know, whatever.You know, the [00:39:00] definition seems of fluid and I think that post racist is a good concept, which is just to say you recognize that groups are different. But like. Focusing on every edgy way in which they’re different is not a productive conversation for anyone. And you’re not really sharing information that anyone who’s interested in learning it does, isn’t already aware of.Yeah. You, you just you know, serve to, well basically masturbate online. Like that’s what you’re doing. You’re like, look at how edgy I am. Look at how edge I am. Look, I know information I’m not supposed to know. Which is one of the things that we always try to avoid doing on this podcast. Yeah. When we, when we try to do something edgy, it’s because we’re asking a question that other people haven’t asked, and you need to say what we’re saying on this.Podcast is quite edgy for the conservative audience that we have which is you need to normalize fetish porn. You don’t it’s, and it’s not necessarily fetish porn, but I’d say fetish arousal patterns, like unusual arousal patterns, just be like, weird things are gonna turn you on. That’s totally normal.That’s [00:40:00] not because you were abused as a kid. We’ve, we’ve actually pointed out. In a lot of our research, there’s not strong correlation between a lot of this and abuse. Like, like it’s not that abuse doesn’t affect sexuality at all. It can like make you more like hypersexual and stuff like that, but it doesn’t focus whether or not weird things are gonna turn you on.Mm-hmm. It appears to just be random genetics. Mm-hmm. And that’s, that’s really all there is to it.Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s not about your choice. You don’t get that choice. What you do get to choose is, is how you act on it and how you deal with it. And yeah, there, there are productive ways to handle this and I think, you know, the most productive way depends on the time and context.And so I think that many religions, like historical religions methods for dealing with these things may have made sense in those historical contexts, but those coping mechanisms don’t work in the modern age when there are internet forums and discord servers and telegram groups, et cetera. Where things go off the rails.You know, it may [00:41:00] work in like a small village with no telecommunications. We don’t live in that age anymore. But that is, yeah, God, it’s just terrifying. I didn’t know this was a thing. I, I just can’t believe that people are, you know, up in arms about Dubai’s port-a-potty parties whenMalcolm Collins: this is, they don’t care.No kids going cra Yeah. No, that doesn’t, yeah. LikeSimone Collins: meanwhile, their kids are in a closet biting off their hamster’s heads and carving usernames into their skin and no one’s talking about it. I mean, I guess you said that wired heads done a beast, but Catherine d when she mentioned it. Had said actually coverage on this is, is just pretty dismal.Like very, very few outlets are actually covering this and actually going into this and it’s a serious issue. I’m sure when they, their wayMalcolm Collins: right wing extremism.Simone Collins: Yeah. IMalcolm Collins: don’t know actually,Simone Collins: no. She cited that there was one really conservative outlet that has actually done some of the best reporting and that she was really loathed to, to admit it, that she never would admit it if the reporting weren’t really good.[00:42:00]So.Malcolm Collins: Yeah, there’s that.Simone Collins: I, I appreciate that. Well,Malcolm Collins: I mean, it’s an anti-Christian group, soSimone Collins: Yeah, maybe that’s actually why mainstream media isn’t covering it as much, just because they’re like. Eh, you know, Satanists,Malcolm Collins: whatever, like trying to take over churches, I guess. Yeah. That word. Yeah. They do them.Simone Collins: Yeah, sure.Whatever. But, wow. Yikes. Thanks.Malcolm Collins: Love you to Decone. Have a spectacular day. And don’t join a Satanist cult. Okay.Simone Collins: Yeah, you neither. And let’s maybe talk to our kids about this.Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah. Just and, and again, if you’re like, well, what do I do? The Pragma Guide to Sexuality, the audio book, the book, we make them super cheap, easily accessible and it is a good, like, honest sexuality book and sexuality is the number one way that kids are radicalized.Simone Collins: Yeah, there you go.Malcolm Collins: Anyway, love you to death.Simone Collins: Love you too. And by the way, thank you so much for, I mean, since [00:43:00] 2:00 AM handling temperamentalMalcolm Collins: well, you’re pregnant, you know?Simone Collins: Yeah. But. I feel guilty and grateful and they clearly feel super comforted by you and it was so nice of you to go down and make sure they’re okay and clean up messes well,Malcolm Collins: I’m glad I, I fooled them into thinking I’m a nice guy.You know, the kids are, kids seem to like me. I, no, they adore you. This is but poor judgment of character on their part. I’ll tell you what, just ‘cause I’m their dad, I’m okay.Simone Collins: You are a safe place for them. And they love it and they love getting, I dunno, I’veMalcolm Collins: read the news. Apparently I beat them. This is they beatSimone Collins: you more.Let’s be honest. They beat you more. Yes. The best moment ever was when we had that journalist over and we were showing them like how completely unafraid they were of us by like going to like s slap their face, but then like stopping our hands right there. And they like don’t react at all and they just think it’s really funny and then they.Went to do the same thing to you later and you like [00:44:00] flinched big time because both of us are covered in bruises from them.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. They they’re, they’re attack children. This is what they, I there was the one video at the end of one of the videos recently where the kids were coming after me and. They all got together like a pack and they were being very aggressive and I felt like I had like a pack of like wild animals chasing me around.It’s likeSimone Collins: that scene in Jurassic Park with the, you know, that little, like the, the guy’s like, oh, they’re just little tiny, you know, like SSIR raptors. Like not a problem. But then they start flocking and he’s screwed.Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And thatSimone Collins: as soon as we get to kid number five, I mean, it’s good to get to a point where you are genuinely scared for yourself.Oh,Malcolm Collins: absolutely. Well, you are happy.Simone Collins: Actually, we’ve already reached number fiveMalcolm Collins: in a few days, so. Oh, we gotta have enough backlog, right? That you guys don’t miss a day.Simone Collins: Not a day. Yeah. And who knows how much I’m gonna hemorrhage out in this one. So we gotta Did you hemorrage last time? I lost, I lost. I mean, you always lose a lot of blood when you do these, but like with some c-sections, you [00:45:00] can lose a lot, a lot of blood.I, I, I shouldn’t, but like, you know it, who knows? I, I try to get out of the hospital. You don’t be lost byMalcolm Collins: cutting off your finger.Simone Collins: I know, man, that cut the tick inside of my finger. Let’s go. You ready?Malcolm Collins: Oh. How did the episode today do?Simone Collins: It went well. I think people really enjoyed it. We, we today ran the episode on survey stats showing the differences between Gen Z, male and female, Trump and Harris voters.People found it telling, they found it interesting. People had interesting things to say about their thoughts about whether and when there will be a debt jubilee how Gen Z is going to fare through the collapse and the disruption. So it’s just, it’s a very thought provoking. Topic that I think is also very much top of mind for so many people.As we’re clicking our way to the top of a rollercoaster right now, waiting, waiting for our stomach to up, what happens? [00:46:00] Alright. Yeah. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe