
Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)
The Tom Schimmer Podcast is a show about learning, leadership, and life. Primarily, it’s a podcast that focuses on current topics in K-12 education. Each week, Tom Schimmer (a best-selling education author, keynote speaker, and consultant) will lean on his 30 years of experience to keep listeners informed and entertained on the prevailing stories dominating the conversations about teaching and learning. This podcast also focuses on educational leadership by exploring how leaders can truly engineer a culture of continued professional growth. Occasionally, this podcast will explore the pursuit of success and happiness as it relates to any walk of life. Through a mix of interviews, commentary, current news stories, questions from listeners, and other segments, listeners will be well-equipped to meet the needs of learners regardless of what role they serve.
Latest episodes

Oct 10, 2022 • 1h 5min
Must Be Measurable | John Hattie | The Good Ol’ Test
In this conversation, John Hattie, an expert in Visible Learning research, shares insights into the significance of effect sizes in education. He emphasizes the limitations of standardized testing and advocates for a balanced approach to assessment that incorporates both quantitative and qualitative measures. Hattie discusses the importance of meaningful feedback and its role in enhancing student learning. He also explores the moral responsibilities of educators in fostering personal growth and the necessity of rethinking the role of tests within comprehensive assessment strategies.

Oct 3, 2022 • 1h 1min
Quiet Quitting | John Hattie | Willful Distortion
In Don’t @ Me (2:15), Tom shares his thoughts on the recent social media phenomenon called "Quiet Quitting." Then, Tom is joined by Dr. John Hattie (12:16) for part one of a conversation about the Visible Learning research. Finally, in Assessment Corner (51:11), Tom discusses why it might be time to push back against those who push back at the elimination of punitive grading practices.
Visible Learning Website: www.visible-learning.org
Hattie Foundation Website: www.hattieff.org
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop)
Virtual Workshop (Octo. 4 & 11, 2022)
Register Here
Minneapolis, MN (December 1-2, 2022)
Register Here
Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)
Akron, OH (October 14-15, 2022)
Register Here
Michigan Assessment Consortium
November 2, 2022 (1:00-3:30pm ET)
Register Here
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
Email: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
Twitter: @TomSchimmer
Instagram: @tomschimmerpodcast
TikTok: @tomschimmerpodcast
Facebook: Schimmer Education
Website: www.tomschimmer.com

Sep 26, 2022 • 1h 6min
Can You Be Led? | Connie Hamilton | Fractured Relationship
In Don’t @ Me (2:53), Tom opens by asking us all to consider whether we can set our egos aside and be open to being led. Then, Tom is joined by educator and author Connie Hamilton (9:33) to discuss her book, “Hacking Questions: 11 Answers that Create a Culture of Inquiry in your Classroom.” Finally, in Assessment Corner (47:38), Tom identifies the six most common ways the relationship between the formative and summative assessment paradigms gets fractured, making grading reform more difficult.
Connie on Twitter: @conniehamilton
Connie on Linkedin: Connie Hamilton
Connie's Website: www.conniehamilton.org
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop)
Long Beach, CA (September 21-22, 2022)
Register Here
Virtual Workshop (Octo. 4 & 11, 2022)
Register Here
Minneapolis, MN (December 1-2, 2022)
Register Here
Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)
Akron, OH (October 14-15, 2022)
Register Here
Michigan Assessment Consortium
November 2, 2022 (1:00-3:30pm ET)
Register Here
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
Email: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
Twitter: @TomSchimmer
Instagram: @tomschimmerpodcast
TikTok: @tomschimmerpodcast
Facebook: Schimmer Education
Website: www.tomschimmer.com

Sep 19, 2022 • 1h 9min
Reborn a Critic | Livia Chan | Synthesizing Standards
In Don't @ Me (5:29), Tom declares that in his next life, he wants to return as a critic. Then, Tom is joined by author, speaker, and Teach Better Digital Coordinator Livia Chan (11:16) to discuss the importance of building strong relationships with our students. Finally, in Assessment Corner (55:48), Tom talks about why synthesizing our standards is the only way to authentically cover and assess them.
Livia on Twitter: @LiviaChanL
Livia on Instagram: @liviachanl
Livia on Facebook: Livia Chan
Livia on Linkedin: Livia Chan
Livia's Website: www.livchan.com
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop)
Long Beach, CA (September 21-22, 2022)
Register Here
Virtual Workshop (Octo. 4 & 11, 2022)
Register Here
Minneapolis, MN (December 1-2, 2022)
Register Here
Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)
Akron, OH (October 14-15, 2022)
Register Here
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
Email: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
Twitter: @TomSchimmer
Instagram: @tomschimmerpodcast
TikTok: @tomschimmerpodcast
Facebook: Schimmer Education
Website: www.tomschimmer.com

Sep 12, 2022 • 1h 3min
Answer the Question | Joe Sanfelippo | Jackpot!
In Don't @ Me (2:41), Tom shares his thoughts on why it is so important to answer people's questions, especially in online forums, and why performative pontifications are the highest form of disrespect. Then, Tom is joined by Joe Sanfelippo (8:35) to discuss effective school and district leadership. Finally, in Assessment Corner (51:28), Tom talks about why student investment is the ultimate Jackpot regarding our assessment literacy.
Joe on Twitter: @Joe_Sanfelippo
Joe on Instagram: @joe_sanfelippo
Joe on Linkedin: Joe Sanfelippo
Joe's Website: www.jsanfelippo.com
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop)
Long Beach, CA (September 21-22, 2022)
Register Here
Virtual Workshop (Octo. 4 & 11, 2022)
Register Here
Minneapolis, MN (December 1-2, 2022)
Register Here
Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)
Akron, OH (October 14-15, 2022)
Register Here
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
Email: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
Twitter: @TomSchimmer
Instagram: @tomschimmerpodcast
TikTok: @tomschimmerpodcast
Facebook: Schimmer Education
Website: www.tomschimmer.com

Aug 29, 2022 • 1h 18min
Spoiler Rules | Lindsay Titus | Sustaining Change
In Don't @ Me (3:21), Tom outlines what he believes the societal rules surrounding "no spoilers" should be. Then, Tom is joined by Lindsay Titus (11:19) to discuss how educators can maintain some semblance of balance through the inevitable stress that comes with any school year. Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (51:46), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about how to sustain change efforts in assessment & grading.
Lindsay on Twitter: @ltitus828
Lindsay on Instagram: @lindsaytitusedu
Lindsay's Website: www.defineyouniversity.com
Podcast: Define YOUniversity
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop)
Long Beach, CA (September 21-22, 2022)
Register Here
Minneapolis, MN (December 1-2, 2022)
Register Here
Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)
Akron, OH (October 14-15, 2022)
Register Here
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
Nat on Twitter: @natabasso
EduCrush on Twitter: @educrushpod
EduCrush Podcast: #EduCrush on Apple
Empowerment Ecosystem: Book Here!
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
Email: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
Twitter: @TomSchimmer
Instagram: @tomschimmerpodcast
TikTok: @tomschimmerpodcast
Facebook: Schimmer Education
Website: www.tomschimmer.com

Aug 15, 2022 • 1h 16min
Teaching Still Matters | Lainie Rowell | Leadership Blindspots
In Don't @ Me (2:32), Tom expresses his frustration with those teachers who seem to want to run away from referring to themselves as "teachers." Then, Tom is joined by Lainie Rowell (11:24) to discuss her latest book, "Evolving with Gratitude: Small Practices in Learning Communities That Make a Big Difference with Kids, Peers, and the World." Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (57:11), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about some Leadership Blindspots when it comes to leading the efforts to create a new assessment and grading paradigm in a school.
Lainie on Twitter: @LainieRowell
Lainie on Instagram: @lainierowell
Lainie on Facebook: Lainie Rowell
Lainie on LinkedIn: Lainie Rowell
EWG on Apple Podcasts: EWG Podcast
EWG on Spotify: EWG Podcast
NEW BOOKS BY TOM:
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
"Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop)
Long Beach, CA (September 21-22, 2022)
Register Here
Minneapolis, MN (December 1-2, 2022)
Register Here
Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)
Akron, OH (October 14-15, 2022)
Register Here
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
Nat on Twitter: @natabasso
EduCrush on Twitter: @educrushpod
EduCrush Podcast: #EduCrush on Apple
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
Email: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
Twitter: @TomSchimmer
Instagram: @tomschimmerpodcast
TikTok: @tomschimmerpodcast
Facebook: Schimmer Education
Website: www.tomschimmer.com

Aug 1, 2022 • 1h 22min
We Must Listen | Nathan Wear | Gradeless vs Grade Less
In Don't @ Me (2:36), Tom expresses his concern that if we can't listen to one another and empathize without agreeing, then the divides in our society will further deepen. Then, Tom is joined by Nathan Wear (14:02) to discuss his book, "Making Grades Matter: Standards-Based Grading in a Secondary PLC at Work." Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (52:13), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about whether it's "Gradeless" or "Grade Less."
Nathan on Twitter: @Nathan_Wear
MGM on Twitter: @GradesMatterSBG
NEW BOOK BY TOM:
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop)
Long Beach, CA (September 21-22, 2022)
Register Here
Minneapolis, MN (December 1-2, 2022)
Register Here
Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)
Akron, OH (October 14-15, 2022)
Register Here
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
Nat on Twitter: @natabasso
EduCrush on Twitter: @educrushpod
EduCrush Podcast: #EduCrush on Apple
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
Email: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
Twitter: @TomSchimmer
Instagram: @tomschimmerpodcast
TikTok: @tomschimmerpodcast
Facebook: Schimmer Education
Website: www.tomschimmer.com

Jul 18, 2022 • 1h 6min
Friends like Family | Gholdy Muhammad | Assessing Competencies
In Don't @ Me (2:16), Tom reflects after a camping trip about his core group of friends who are more like family. Then, Tom is joined by Gholdy Muhammad (11:51) to discuss her book, "Cultivating Genius, an Equity Framework for Culturally and Historically Responsive Literacy." Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (46:40), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about how to assess 21st-century competencies.
Gholdy on Twitter: @GholdyM
Gholdy on Instagram: @gholdym
NEW BOOK BY TOM:
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop)
Long Beach, CA (September 21-22, 2022)
Register Here
Minneapolis, MN (December 1-2, 2022)
Register Here
Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)
Akron, OH (October 14-15, 2022)
Register Here
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
Nat on Twitter: @natabasso
EduCrush on Twitter: @educrushpod
EduCrush Podcast: #EduCrush on Apple
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
Email: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
Twitter: @TomSchimmer
Instagram: @tomschimmerpodcast
TikTok: @tomschimmerpodcast
Facebook: Schimmer Education
Website: www.tomschimmer.com

Jul 4, 2022 • 1h 23min
Tales from MTL | Tyrone McNeil | Assessment Analogies
In Don't @ Me (2:53), Tom recounts his trip to Montreal with his son to see their first-ever Formula 1 race. Then, Tom is joined by FNESC President Tyrone McNeil (19:46) to discuss the state of indigenous education. Finally, in "Assess THAT with Tom & Nat" (1:04:56), Tom and special guest Natalie Vardabasso talk about some effective analogies that help clarify some complex assessment topics.
Tyrone on Twitter: @STCTye
Tyrone on LinkedIn: Tyrone McNeil
NEW BOOK BY TOM:
"Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
Annual Conference on Assessment & Grading
Austin, TX (July 18-20, 2022)
Register Here
Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop)
Long Beach, CA (September 21-22, 2022)
Register Here
Minneapolis, MN (December 1-2, 2022)
Register Here
Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)
Akron, OH (October 14-15, 2022)
Register Here
CONNECT WITH NATALIE VARDABASSO
Nat on Twitter: @natabasso
EduCrush on Twitter: @educrushpod
EduCrush Podcast: #EduCrush on Apple
CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER
Email: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
Twitter: @TomSchimmer
Instagram: @tomschimmerpodcast
TikTok: @tomschimmerpodcast
Facebook: Schimmer Education
Website: www.tomschimmer.com
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