Real Talk, Whole Life

(0:40) Welcome Welcome back to the Paleo View listeners! Episode 368! Not 369, even though episode 368 was already recorded, but with a tech glitch Stacy and Sarah hope you enjoy the benefit of them already practicing this show one time through Special thank you to this week's sponsor, Joovv A speaker reached out with a question about his Joovv: Lorenzo has the Quad Joovvand there is a little bit of a gap between where his Joovvpieces connect. Should he stand still or move side to side for max benefits? Sarah shared details on the design of the Quad Joovvand the way it is designed to be full-body Sarah has this model as well and what she does is move a little left to right Ideally, you should be standing about one to two inches away Sarah does 10 minutes facing her Joovvand 10 minutes with her back to it Stacy does a little bit longer with her back to the Joovvas she finds that it helps with her injury and joint pain Stacy and Sarah both love their Joovvsand you can learn all about them by visiting this link: https://joovv.com/paleoview Sarah shared information on a recent study that Joovvshared on how it impacts sleep hygiene Sarah uses her Joovvbefore bed for these reasons, and it is a natural part of her evening routine Stacy uses her Joovv first thing in the morning Stacy is looking forward to being a student on this week's podcast recording, as she knows nothing about varicose veins Sarah is bringing both personal experience and science to this week's episode (15:05) Q & A From Christine:  Before I get to my question, I want to thank you for all that you do, Sarah and Stacy. I especially love your podcasts! I will admit, I am digging into your podcast archives, so don't judge me. I listen to them while I log core at work, enabling me to be doubly nerdy! As a fellow scientist, I appreciate your no-none-sense approach to tackling questions and information with science. Even my husband (who is a chemist) loves how informative and science-based your podcasts are! Ahem, I curate select episodes for him, as it has helped him immensely in understanding AIP and profoundly improved our marriage. The information and advice you provide, has empowered me to ask the right questions and find the right medical providers. Prior to finding your websites and podcasts, I sought medical treatment from a primary care physician. I remember the last time I saw him: I was sitting in his office, feeling horrible after eating lunch, asking him to test me for Celiac Disease. I started explaining my symptoms, then he proceeded to tell me that I didn't have Celiac Disease because I didn't have diarrhea (sorry Stacy). When I explained that another symptom, infertility, was an issue, as my husband and I had been trying to conceive for 4 years without any success whatsoever; he told me, "Sometimes, it's just not in God's plans." I swallowed my tears and persisted. Finally, he conceded after I told him that my family has a history of Celiac Disease. The two of you have made me feel empowered enough so that I moved on from that physician and found the right one for me. I feel like I can intelligently speak to my provider and be my own advocate. I am so deeply grateful. Now for my question... I have been making leaps and bounds on AIP over the last couple of months, after being treated for SIBO and supplementing my meals with HCl. I noticed for the first time in my life that my skin became soft and my nails also soft and lustrous... but, what really surprised me the most was that my varicose veins have almost disappeared. I've had them on both of my calves for about 15 years and thought that I was stuck with them for life. I was so self-conscious of them, that I rarely wore shorts or shorter dresses in public, or if I did, I wore tights or pantyhose. This has led me to wonder... What causes varicose veins? How are they autoimmune-related? Are they specific to certain autoimmune diseases? What can I do (from a diet standpoint) to keep promoting the elimination of the varicose veins? I love that AIP has opened so many doors to good health for me and so many others. AIP has helped me feel confident and beautiful again...something I thought never possible. I am so deeply grateful for what you have given me. Stacy wants to pause to say how mad she is at that doctor and how proud she is of Christine She is so proud that Christine was empowered and is giving her long-distance fist bumps Sarah is sending all the high fives Stacy wants to be friends with Christine Varicose veins affect about 24% of Americans and there are estimates that upwards of 40% of adults will get them at some point in their lives Unless you are one of these adults, you don't typically hear about varicose veins in the national health conversations This is because they are considered relatively benign Varicose veins are a vein where the walls have gotten weak and essentially collapsed on itself Because it collapsed it gets twisty It creates spots where blood can either backflow or pool Veins have valves in them that stop blood from flowing backward in between heartbeats Because of the weakening of the wall in the vein, the vein will kind of expand This then pulls the valves apart and the valves end up failing which is how you get this backflow or blood pooling Most of the time they are asymptomatic They have this characteristic dark blue or purple appearance and they can bulge out They don't often feel like anything - they are typically just there They can be very uncomfortable They can ache, feel heavy, cause muscle cramps, itchy, burning, throbbing sensation, the skin around them can be irritated Overall they are benign, but there is this extreme symptom version of them When people start feeling these symptoms, this is typically when they will get varicose veins treated Having varicose veins does slightly increase the risk of blood clotting It is called thrombophlebitis These are big problems and require immediate medical intervention It is a small fraction of the people with varicose veins that have this complication Causes of varicose veins It is not super well understood There is a fair amount of research being done of them, but it is from the angle of how to treat varicose veins There are little bits and pieces to the puzzle that have been figured out: The weakening of the vein wall might be due to changes in collagen or elastin There is some kind of chronic inflammation type part of the recipe for making varicose veins There are other possible scenarios: Ex: the blood clot coming first that then causes the varicose vein Physical trauma can also cause them There is also a familial link However, no genes have been identified, but it does tend to run in families Other risk factors are: age being a woman being obese sitting or standing for too long having high blood pressure pregnancy Sarah first developed varicose veins during her pregnancy It all boils down to things that are more likely to make the vein varicose (26:01) The Role That Diet & Lifestyle Plays There is no known link between varicose veins and autoimmune disease There are a couple of autoimmune diseases that affect connective tissue, which has an increased risk of varicose veins But they are not linked to autoimmune disease in general It is such a high-frequency condition that it is really hard to make a link to other chronic diseases The statistics show that basically varicose veins are its own vascular disease Inflammation may be part of it, but there is no autoimmune component to it It is interesting to Stacy that varicose veins do have an inflammation component to it, and that going to an autoimmune protocol reduces inflammation Sarah noted that the autoimmune protocol is designed to help the immune system regulate itself It means that it's applicable in more than just autoimmune disease conditions There are some diet links, but the science is still very preliminary The best understood dietary link with varicose veins is dietary fiber Sarah shared more on these studies and the reasoning behind their findings A squatty potty would be a great way to help with this scenario However, if you are following an AIP you are already getting a high fiber intake from your vegetable consumption The other nutrients linked to varicose veins: Vitamin D deficiency Supplementation seems to help them Folate deficiency Flavinoids in general Plant extracts have also been tested in clinical trials and have been linked to reducing varicose veins There are other nutrient deficiencies links that have been found, but it isn't known if supplementation helps in these scenarios Not getting enough protein Vitamin C Omega 3's Zinc It doesn't surprise Sarah that the autoimmune protocol would benefit varicose veins Or at least make them shrink There are going to be times where the damage is enough that there is no amount of good diet and awesome flavinoids that are going to reverse that From a stopping the progression perspective and from helping veins that still have enough structure to return to normal, that makes a lot of sense The other link to the autoimmune protocol that makes sense for varicose veins is to add in exercise There are a lot of studies showing that the more active you are the lower your risk for varicose veins There have been a few intervention studies that have taken people with really bad varicose veins and put them on some kind of exercise regimen It seems like exercises that are specifically geared at increasing leg muscle strength are particularly helpful Sarah explained the explanation behind this link in greater detail Stacy asked Sarah is collagen supplementation could help with varicose veins Sarah tried to be as thorough as possible in her research, and couldn't find a study where collagen supplementation was actually tested From an intellectual perspective, it makes sense to Sarah that supplementing with collagen and making sure that you are hitting all those other nutrients that are really important for collagen formation will help However, she can't point to a scientific study that says that is the case, or how much to take If varicose veins are the only thing you are dealing with, you probably don't need to go full board AIP You can look at the nutrient density of your diet Address things like long periods of sedentary time There is very little data comparing the different types of medical interventions for varicose veins They are all thought to be good for a while, but the chances of another vein blowing are really high The treatments are not treating the root cause Compression stockings can help varicose veins but are working to simply keep things where they are Veins can still continue to varicose if you have a lot of these other risk factors If your legs are starting to ache your doctors will tell you to eat more fiber Sarah's translation to that is to focus on the nutrient density of your diet by increasing your vegetable intake She would also suggest exercise and compression stalkings This will help some people, but will not be sufficient for others The medical treatments that are available right now are surgery, laser therapy, and Sclerotherapy There are a lot of options for treatment Sarah recommends doing your research about all the available options However, Christine is a wonderful testament to the power of diet and lifestyle Sarah definitely recommends trying some tweaks to diet and lifestyle and compression stalkings first (47:04) Closing Thoughts Stacy learned a lot today and thanked Sarah for her research Thank you, Christine, for your wonderful question! Please feel free to submit YOUR questions through the forms on Stacy and Sarah's websites A special thank you again to this week's sponsor, Joovv Check out this awesome resource by visiting this link here: https://joovv.com/paleoview If you enjoyed the show and know someone who can benefit from it, leave reviews and share with those you know Leave comments on social media as well to help Stacy and Sarah broaden their reach to get this information to as many people as possible who are looking for healthy living resources Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(0:40) Welcome Hey listeners - welcome back to The Paleo View! Stacy is just going to jump right in because this week's topic has been something she has been ranting about for a few weeks now Sarah looked into it after Stacy brought it up, and also agreed that a show needed to be done on this topic When Sarah started to do the research on it she too got fired up Stacy wants to give a little preface and introduction to those listeners that might not know what Sarah and Stacy are talking about or who might come to it from a different perspective Stacy is going to talk on her own about her personal experience Sarah has also dealt with the struggle with weight her whole life The perspective that both Stacy and Sarah have, and what Stacy wants to focus on, is that Stacy's weight loss journey was never about calories in - calories out There were emotional issues and there were health issues Today Stacy and Sarah are going to talk about weight loss for children The message that Stacy wants to share is that the foundation that we set for our kids at a young age is what is the foundation for their lifetime Stacy's concern is that when we introduce something like a weight loss program for kids, not only are we dealing with all the science that Sarah is going to cover on why this can be detrimental to their health But from Stacy's perspective, this was the start of an emotional relationship with food that went the opposite of a good direction Stacy did end up getting therapy for bulimia and binge eating disorder as a teenager She went on diets on and off so much Diets were a part of her family culture Stacy doesn't feel like they knew better back then People encouraged family members to go on diets because they were thinking about their health Now there is a much better understanding of health at any size, and there is more to health than just your weight There is an insane amount of diet culture pervasiveness To add to this blew Stacy's mind We now know that asking children to diet creates this yo-yo roller coaster for them It strips away the confidence or perceived support that they might have from focusing on positive healthy activities vs. counting calories When this weight loss program for kids came out, Stacy got so angry She wanted to hug every single one of these children and tell them that they are wonderful just as they are We need emotional support for these kids and teaching them good habits Focusing on and praising the things that are really good in their life And doing it with them Stacy shared on her experience with being obese and why she is so passionate about this topic Sarah noted that kids are more emotionally vulnerable Teaching our kids that they are doing something wrong around the culture of weight significantly impacts their emotional health Sarah was a robust kid, but she wasn't overweight until her early teens It became a self-fulfilling prophecy There were many external influences that led to Sarah developing a binge eating disorder and eventually reaching a morbidly obese weight In part, because she had an underlying health issue that was driving her weight gain and this went undiagnosed for something like 30 years It felt to Sarah like nothing worked and it didn't matter what she did The things that Sarah was doing were the popular diets at the time As Sarah digs into the data, she thinks that this weight loss program is not just everything wrong in supporting healthy habits in kids But it goes so much beyond that because we have this culture now where 91% of American woman have dissatisfaction with their bodies This is what we are doing to ourselves, and then teaching our kids We are teaching them that there is something wrong with them and that they have to fix themselves Diets themselves can be physiologically harmful It is not just the psychological effects Sarah thinks that this is a symptom of a cultural phenomenon that is corrosive We put these underweight body types on this pedestal of being the height of beauty When what is healthy is actually heavier than this We then shame everybody else We shame people if they are not underweight This was eyeopening to make Sarah think about how she talks to herself and how she treats herself Sarah wants to emphasize that the fixation in our community on weight instead of health is wrong Sarah wants every one of The Paleo View listeners to look at your actions and self-talk and really think about it as objectively as you can How can we together as a community move forward to address every aspect of this What are we teaching our children about how to navigate healthy choices in life based on how we talk to ourselves Stacy encourages you, the next time you talk to yourself - if you were saying that to your child, mother, or best friend would you say it the same way that you talk to yourself? You can both accept yourself and love yourself and respect yourself as you are today AND make healthier habits and changes However, the guilt and shame associated with the negative self-talk and mindset is so pervasive that it causes self-destructive habits when you don't achieve perfection It begets this negative cycle telling yourself that you are a worse person when you don't achieve an appearance Stacy has challenged herself over the last year to no longer acknowledge people's bodies If she comments on appearance, she makes it about how happy someone looks or how healthy they look Words that don't associate with emptiness This has been a habit she has had to shape As Stacy and Sarah jump into the rest of the show, Stacy encourages you to think positively about the changes you can make in the future and feel good about it This is the kind of thought process that will help you achieve your goal If you get caught up in reflecting back and thinking negatively, you will get sucked up in a black hole (19:50) The Research on Diets Longterm Effects Sarah wants to go through some data to reinforce the importance of taking some time and revisiting these periods of self-reflection when it comes to how each one of us in contributing to diet culture It has been known in the medical literature for about 20 years that going on a diet as an adolescent dramatically increases the risk of developing an eating disorder This was all launched by this well-done study from 1999 where they looked at 2,000 teenagers and did a whole pile of medical analysis They looked at: Lifestyle factors Surveys to look at mental health Starting weight Activity levels Gender They discovered that the single biggest predictor of an eating disorder (looking at just anorexia and bulimia): In the kids who were on a severe diet, they were 18x more likely to develop an eating disorder In the kids who were on a moderate diet, they were 5x more likely to develop an eating disorder Things that didn't affect the chances of developing an eating disorder: How active the kids were What their starting BMI was There have been a variety of follow up studies that have confirmed these results They have added binge eating disorder and obesity There was a 2016 studypublished in the American Academy of Pediatrics that was like a review paper showing that dieting (defined as caloric restriction with the goal of weight loss) was not only a risk factor for developing eating disorders but it doubled the risk of obesity Often the diets that these kids and teens are going on are not nutrient-dense It is not just calorically restricting, it is nutrient restricting Even on some of the more forward-thinking diet plans that have unlimited vegetables, are not actually teaching people how to eat enough nutrients We are seeing that the psychological damage is almost certainly from that cycle of body shame, the stigma that is associated with it, and the anxiety, stress, and depression Sarah now talks a lot about healthy weight loss in her workshop and educational resources She has an online course that is very much about health goal setting and addressing habits to normalize weight in a healthy way It ditches this mentality of losing a certain amount of weight for a life event One of the reasons that weight-loss maintenance is so challenging (especially the higher the caloric restriction), your hunger hormones increase Your metabolism decreases, and your hunger increases Most of these diets are not rich enough in protein to maintain lean muscle mass It is essentially a recipe for weight gain Unless you approach this in the right way, which is: Healthy habit development Eat more vegetables Get more sleep Live an active lifestyle Manage your stress Make sure you are eating enough protein These habits will allow you to normalize weight and keep it off It is very much about healthy choices and not necessarily a particular goal What is happening in these kids the diets that they are going on is setting them up to fail and to yo-yo They are very goal-driven with an emphasis on, 'the faster the better' They are not focused on a nutrient-rich approach Losing weight is inflammatory and increases oxidative stress Weight loss is a process that requires an education The problem with these weight loss centers is that they said you up to yo-yo There is this assumption that if you don't lose weight fast enough you won't stick to it But if your approach is not making you healthier, it is hard to stick to This process magnifies shame You end up in both a physiological and psychological cycle The physiological cycle is changing body composition in a way that is increasing the risk of health problems with every cycle The psychological cycle is a cycle of shame and failure and reward It magnifies the shame when you cannot stick to this thing that you physiologically set yourself up to not be able to follow Sarah feels strongly about not distilling diet or lifestyle choices to yes's and no's - the things to do and the things to not do Not to put this stigma on no foods And to not express things so simplistically that you cannot understand the why behind the choice Kids do not understand things like muscle weighing more than fat or how hormones and metabolism play into things So think about the impact to a child who is being publically weighed When we introduce these ideas to kids they see it more simplistically The more that we can learn the lingo, the science and the information (the why and the how), so that we can help our children understand it, the more we can combat diet culture within our households and communities Nutrient deficiencies are one of the strongest links to chronic disease risks It turns out when you eat a nutrient-rich diet it supports the reduced risk of disease, which is really the thing that matters Not if you fit into those jeans or look good in a bikini We have trained ourselves to not look for the visual cues of health Thick, shiny hair Glowing skin A giant smile Energy Muscle Sarah says that body composition, as opposed to your weight on the scale, is very important It is far more important how much muscle we have, as opposed to fat This paper that looked at diet and risk for eating disorders showed that exercise did not increase the risk of eating disorders So just being active is a super healthy lifestyle choice that improves our health in a number of ways If we can separate activity away from weight loss goals and diet mentality, it is a super healthy thing to do Metrics of health, we can also look at inflammatory markers in the blood, lipid panels, mood, energy levels These are far more important things for us to evaluate both in ourselves and in our kids Are our kids getting enough sleep? Are they active? Do they have energy throughout the day? People can be underweight, overweight, and average weight and have tons of health issues (42:28) The Impact Beyond the Scale For Stacy, she never saw anybody who looked like her in her early life Healthy at any size wasn't an actual thing It didn't make her feel good to not see anyone who looked like her in pop culture Which only further enforced this idea that she needed to be thin to fit the ideal Thin was healthy and that was the marker of health Stacy was taught to work towards Now there is so much more information than there use to be Stacy has such hope that the next generation will have this information and will go back to the way that their grandparents lived Not just eating whole, nutrient-dense, low-inflammatory foods, but also using less plastic and all the other things that go into health If where we are going is putting children on weight loss programs and not talking about the things that really matter and helping them understand the emotional and physical impacts of nutrient and caloric restriction, then we are doomed Stacy says we have to be change agents One of the things that Sarah finds really interesting is what it is doing to our epigenetics to go on these weight loss programs There is data from the last 10-15 years showing that under-nutrition is linked to a dramatic list of negative health consequences that transcends generations One of the most interesting studies is the Dutch health study that looked at times of famine and how those impacted the health of the people depending on how they were and the health of their children, and now their grandchildren The kids who were the same age as those who these weight loss programs are targeting (8 to 17) were a particularly sensitive group Women who were between 10 and 17 at the start of the famine had later in their life a 38% increased risk of coronary heart disease It does damage our body to have severe caloric restriction It increases our risk of some cancer, type-2 diabetes, obesity, immune suppression, mental health disorders, and more The children of these women are shorter The study is now showing the increased rate of diseases through turning on these adaptations genes so your body is trying to survive a time of famine and this is turning some genes off and some genes on And they are seeing that this is inherited We need to fix this for our children's generation We can actually point to genetic changes as a result of dieting that can then be passed on to their children that is then going to increase their risk of chronic disease This is the opposite of health While Sarah was talking, Stacy had a moment of guilt thinking about her history, but then she snapped herself out of it and reminded herself to not go into backward thinking She is instead thinking about all the things that she is doing now to benefit her boys so that they can have a better future (51:25) Closing Thoughts What are the positive things we can do to not just address how we talk to ourselves, but really help our kids develop those healthy habits that will support a healthy weight (whatever that is for them) and lifelong health? The first one that Stacy wants to mention is that we have to live and lead by example And genuinely believe it Think about your wording and mentality around habits Build fun into healthy habits Bring your kids into the kitchen to cook with you Sarah points out the importance of gathering for family meals This bonding translates to other healthy habits Focus on higher vegetable consumption Creating healthy sleep habits Outside play When we focus on these things as the healthy habits that we work on as a family, we are setting the stage for naturally achieving a healthy weight We are also naturally achieving health Remember, healthy and thin does not mean the same thing These two things can go together, but they don't always If you are going to choose one or the other, Sarah highly recommends choosing healthy Stacy thinks this will provide structure for an easy way to talk to children about healthy and habits Stacy shared on how Matt and Stacy worked together to collaboratively work on their healthy habits and their health groove She shared insight into how we approach conversations and our word choices can make a huge difference Sarah shared on how her mental health plays a role on her physical health She has to be really mindful about self-destructive, self-talk Also to let go of judgment and guilt Stacy challenges herself to only focus on the things she really likes about herself to shift that negative mindset Every time she thinks negatively about herself, she then comes up with two things she likes about herself This was an activity they did with the kids while traveling this summer as well We all deserve to focus on the good things and to be complimented and to compliment others The more we do it to others, the more natural it will be to do it to yourself Sarah wants to reiterate that there is no part of this conversation that is helped by blame, guilt, or remorse This is about moving forward and embracing these health journies as a family-focused on healthy habits and the bonding that comes out of these experiences Stacy sent all her love to the audience Please share this episode with your community and those who you think would benefit from this information Please also leave a review, which helps others see this show in their podcast feeds Please also share it on your social media channels to help get this information to others Thank you so much for your support! Help others find these shows in a way that can help heal themselves and potentially heal their families Stacy would love to hear from at least one parent how this episode shifted their thoughts and actions around how to help their family Thanks again for listening - Stacy and Sarah will be back next week! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(0:40) Welcome Welcome back to The Paleo View listeners! This week Stacy and Sarah are talking about seafood All the seafood and all the things people are concerned about when it comes to seafood And whether or not these concerns are legitimate Stacy and Sarah did discuss this topic on a previous episode (here), but it was time to revisit the discussion Eating seafood is a common talking point on this show since it is so nutrient-dense, anti-inflammatory and healing Before the hosts dive into the topic, they want to take a moment to thank this week's sponsor, Butcher Box They have a special seafood promo that is being offered to The Paleo View listeners and this discount is not being offered anywhere else Butcher Box is starting to move into the realm of seafood Sarah thinks that they have the best salmon she has ever had You can always add salmon to your standard meat subscription However, they now seasonally sell scallops The Paleo View listeners can visit this linkbefore 9/5 to redeem free bacon and free scallops No code is needed After 9/5, The Paleo View listeners will receive $15 off and a free pack of bacon (7:10) Q & A Sarah is going to break down Alana's question and take it step by step to look at every pollutant/processing chemical that might be introduced to fish There are dyes added to some low-quality fish to make it look redder There are times when farmed-fish are fed feed that contain dyes to change the color If dyes are added after the fish are processed, that is going to be added to the label Things that are not going to be on the label: Mercury It irreversibly binds to selenium based proteins and enzymes in our bodies so that those proteins can't do their job It impacts 3 different systems the most: thyroid hormone productions liver detoxification protecting the brain against oxidative damage Seafood is one of our best food sources of selenium and the mercury that the fish are exposed to actually binds with selenium based proteins in their bodies Once it binds with the fish's selenium it can't bind with our selenium When we are consuming that fish, almost all of the time, we are consuming more selenium than we are getting exposed to mercury Even fairy contaminated fish and top predators will have more selenium than mercury So that selenium that we are ingesting in fish is actually still helping to protect us from mercury exposure The surveys that have been done now show that with the exception of a few top predators in fairly polluted waters there is typically much more selenium than mercury in all ocean fish And probably with 97% of lake fish, you are getting more selenium than mercury If you are eating these top predator fish, don't eat them that often Examples: mako shark, pilot whale Your body can still detoxify some of this mercury You can handle a little bit of exposure if you are eating a healthy diet and have a healthy lifestyle A little bit here and there is not a big deal Swordfish is probably fine if it comes from non-polluted waters And again is something you shouldn't eat every day Fish and shellfish are some of our best sources of zinc On average 73% of Americans never meet the RDA of zinc Zinc is supposed to be the second most abundant mineral in the human body It is phenomenally important for a whole host of functions within the human body We are getting really interesting nutrients from fish that are hard to get from other sources Fish protein is the best protein for the gut microbiome There have been studies that actually show that consuming fish protein can make up for high sugar diets The omega-3's are really important for every system in our body Our neurological system, immune system, gut bacteria The omega-3's from seafood are the long-chain that our body can use directly without having to convert them The kind from flax or chia have to be converted before our bodies can use them Fish has all of these amazing things so as we go through the less than ideal things, the cons are outweighed by the pros Alana asked about other heavy metals as well (lead and cadmium) There have been some environmental impact studies that have looked at heavy metal in farmed fish The study found that the levels in the fish are still extremely low and below the World Health Organization's guidelines In places where there are more environmental protections you are going to end up with basically levels of heavy metals that are far below any level that we would want to worry about The other heavy metals are a moot point Fish has been demonized as a source, while it's actually much much richer in nutrients that will help us detoxify It is also much lower than other foods, and yet it gets all the blame Stacy finds it interesting how pervasive mainstream media can be when it comes to creating cultural assumptions Sarah shared information on MTHFR gene variance and MTHFR enzyme function (28:41) More on Contaminants in Fish Cesium isotopes from Fukushima There have been levels detected in fish caught off the California coast Fukushima was the second-worst nuclear disaster ever after Chernobyl, and there is a lot of fear around the aftermath from this event This is an ongoing challenge There is a small amount of cesium-134 and cesium-137 in the ocean thanks to Fukushima What is important to understand is that there are radioactive isotopes in nature all over the place We are exposed to them on a daily basis If you live somewhere with high radon levels you are exposed to more Our body is fairly resilient to these low levels of exposure The amount of cesium isotopes in the most contaminated fish's flesh is even 2,000 times lower than the threshold for health effects So as it pertains to eating fish from the Pacific ocean; no we should not be concerned For more on this, check out this blog postfrom Sarah The equation is: If you consumed 12 ounces (which is a very large portion) of contaminated bluefin tuna every day for an entire year, the cumulative dose of radiation that you would consume from all of that tuna would equate to 12% of the radiation dose from a one-way cross country flight from LA to New York Stacy appreciates that analogy - it is so helpful Sarah and Stacy had a sidebar discussion about personality types Gretchen Rubin's 4 tendencies personality categories Enneagram Sarah shared a story about her experience playing with her kids at the playground recently Concerns around BPA in canned fish packaging Sarah wrote a blog postabout BPA and its' impact as an endocrine disruptor This has been confirmed Sarah shared more on the links between BPA exposure and various medical conditions Our dominant BPA exposure is through our plastic use, not through BPA lined cans It is added as a coating inside a can to stop acidic liquids from corroding the aluminum You can reduce your exposure by: Not heating your food in the can Not letting your canned goods sit in a hot car for a long amount of time Be careful when you are removing food from the can so that you are not scraping the edge coating into your food The BPA alternatives for canned good linings have been minimally tested for safety Many of them have also been shown to be endocrine disruptors There are a lot of unanswered questions around these alternatives The benefits of fish still outweigh the potential harm of BPA exposure If you are making efforts to reduce BPA exposure from other places (plastic food storage, plastic water bottles, plastic wrap) Where you can, mix it up with some fresh and frozen But overall Sarah thinks that again the benefits of eating canned fish outweigh the risks Stacy shared her experience with canned goods and why she doesn't worry about the canned goods they consume How they balance the quality of foods they consume Don't let perfection be the enemy of good If you are unable to afford or find canned goods that are BPA free, don't lose sleep over it Antibiotic use in farmed fish While wild-caught is the best, avoiding fish because wild-caught is not monetarily accessible is probably doing more harm than consuming farmed fish Ask the worker at your fish counter where the fish comes from and they are grown In most Western countries, there are regulations on how much antibiotics can be used and how long they have to be discontinued before fish can be harvested Antibiotic residues are linked with all kinds of problems, so if there isn't a washout period then yes the antibiotic residues can cause health problems Where we see this is in developing nations where the practices are not as tightly regulated and they don't have a vet administering the antibiotics Or using the right dosage and/or are failing to follow directions Don't eat farmed fish when traveling to developing countries Stacy shared on her food evaluation approach Looking for sustainable practices If you don't have access to sustainability sourced seafood, remember to check out Butcher Box They are offering an amazing deal to new subscribers Find out more here: https://www.butcherbox.com/thepaleoview/ (57:37) Closing Thoughts Thank you for joining Stacy and Sarah on this seafood-rich episode! Stacy and Sarah will be back again next week Don't forget to leave a review A listener touched base to share this feedback: "Hi Stacy, I just wanted to tell you that I am listening to the beginning of the last Paleo View podcast where you are giving an update on the little girl who has alopecia. Thank you so much for giving that update! I remember that show. I remember balling my eyes out. I have alopecia too and it got pretty bad towards the end of a really stressful job I had about a year and a half ago. AIP has definitely helped, so has less stress. I too am moving away from super strict AIP because after five months I can tolerate pretty much everything now. Not gluten - I will be gluten-free for life. That is crazy to me. Two weeks into AIP, I broke down and had rice and had a horrible reaction. Eczema being the easiest way to tell I was having a reaction. I never imagined healing to the point of reintroducing so many foods, but it has happened. Thanks for sharing the update! Alopecia can be hard to talk about and there is not that much info out there. So thank you for getting the word out!" Stacy reminds listeners that no matter where you are at in your healing journey, know that the time will come when you can reintroduce foods It takes some people more time than others to heal Sarah loves reading comments like this And seeing the different ways that Stacy and Sarah are able to communicate with people and provide resources She loves to see the different ways the information resonates Thank you, listeners, for being here! Thank you again to Butcher Boxfor supporting this episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(0:40) Welcome Welcome back to The Paleo View listeners! Stacy is home and is so excited to jump into this week's very science-y topic! Snuggling her pets and sleeping in her own bed, Stacy is so happy Stacy also shared an update on a family that she visited with while in Texas Their daughter has alopecia and her hair is starting to grow back after following an AIP approach and working with her family to heal her body Sarah shared her feelings on how significant this is and what this specific case shows us about the autoimmune protocol This week's show sponsor is Just Thrive probiotics Both Stacy and Sarah's family uses this product Get 15% off with code PALEOVIEW15 Visit: https://thriveprobiotic.com/thepaleoview (11:13) The Study that Sparked the Discussion Recently, ahuman study was publishedlooking at how long-term adherence to a Paleo diet affects the gut microbiota and TMAO Mainstream news picked it up the day it was published Using headlines like, "Study linking Paleo diet to increased heart disease risk strengthens diet industry concerns" There are a few physician-focused websites that publish news to keep doctors up to date on the medical literature The headline was, "Paleo diet increases the risk for heart disease" Sarah's inbox and The Paleo View's inbox was flooded with questions It is common in these situations for mainstream media to pick up on any anti-fad diet study The standard response from our community is to find some reason why this study is irrelevant TMAO is often linked with red meat consumption It is thought to be one of the mechanisms behind the link between increased cancer risk and increased cardiovascular disease risk and high red meat consumption The reason why Sarah wants to dedicate an entire episode to this study is that it was very well done It has some results that we need to pay attention to Sarah doesn't see this study as a nail in the coffin on the Paleo diet Instead, Sarah sees this as a very serious warning about a very particular type of implementation of Paleo We need to make sure we are incorporating all the key principles of Paleo, instead of combining Paleo with other dietary approaches This study shows us that there are problems with the longterm implementation of a low carb Paleo diet Really what it is telling us is that root vegetables and fruit are awesome The study was performed in Australia and they took people who self-reported following the Paleo diet for over a year The controls were following the national dietary recommendations of Australia These are similar to the recommendations made by the USDA/MyPlate Within the Paleo group, they further divided them into two subgroups The people who followed Paleo very strictly were called strict Paleo The other group was called pseudo-Paleo These people were consuming about one serving of grains or dairy per day In the real world, most of us who have been following Paleo for a longtime fall closer to that pseudo-Paleo group Strict Paleo is often the challenge Paleo group or is utilized by those who are using it for therapeutic purposes They had these people do a three-day weighed diet record Measure and record everything they were eating They then did urine tests to measure nitrogen and the Goldberg cut point If those urine tests didn't match the dietary records they were eliminated from the study They eliminated anybody who had been on antibiotics, cholesterol medication, blood pressure-lowering medication, previously diagnosed with cardiovascular disease, anyone with any kind of GI disorder, or anyone who has had surgery on their GI tract They were eliminating anyone who would predictively be an outlier They then did a series of measurements (TMAO, blood work, stool analysis) The two measurements that turned out to be different between the Paleo and pseudo-Paleo group was the amount of TMAO in their blood and what was happening in their gut microbiome Sarah explained more about why TMAO was a focal point in this study Studies that pool all of these studies together show that if you have higher TMAO in your blood you have a higher risk of cardiovascular disease 23% increased risk And 55% increased risk of all-cause mortality Which is a general marker of health and longevity The interesting thing that Sarah notes, is that there has also been a lot of research that fails to show a causal link The majority of the science from the last few years makes this picture of TMAO as an indicator or a symptom as opposed to the direct link between high red meat consumption and heart disease How we get TMAO: Some we absorb directly from food Most of the TMAO is made by our gut bacteria when they metabolize choline, lecithin, and carnitine So it is a multi-step process Sarah shared more on this process and how TMAO is created Researchers have discovered over the last few years that how much TMAO is in your bloodstream is far more correlated to your gut microbiome than to how much carnitine you ingest There are certain bacteria that have been shown to be TMA producers There is now this really interesting picture being painted with all the scientific literature showing that TMAO is potentially, rather than a causal link between red meat consumption and cardiovascular disease and cancer, that it's an indicator of a gut microbiome that is conducive to disease development As we start to look at TMAO it is probably less related to red meat consumption, so much as a dysbiosis in the gut One of the best pieces of evidence for this is that fish is really really high in TMAO People will get 300x more TMAO in their blood after eating fish than after eating beef, even if they have a microbiome that produces TMAO And fish is uniformly beneficial and reduces the risk of heart disease Sarah has seen in relation to this new scientific study is arguments that say, "TMAO probably doesn't cause heart disease, therefore Paleo causing high TMAO is nothing we need to worry about" This isn't something Sarah agrees with High TMAO, especially when it is not timed with TMAO rich foods, generally is an indicator of something going wrong with our gut bacteria that needs to be paid attention to The way that this study was designed to measure high TMAO food consumption is not taking into account seafood, which is something worth paying attention to (27:40) Testosterone Deficiency What is happening in this particular new study looking at strict Paleo and pseudo-Paleo adherence is not that TMAO is going up because the Paleo people are eating more fish But rather that the TMAO is going up as a result of a shift in the gut microbiome The study also took a deeper look into the gut microbiome They found overall big trends However, the study did find that two particular genres of probiotic bacteria were really low in the Paleo and pseudo-Paleo groups Bifidobacteria Roseburia bacteria This is something really important to pay attention to Bifidobacteria are some of our main vitamin producers They are important for inhibiting pathogen colonization in the gut They help to modulate our immune responses They modulate the gut barrier They can reduce inflammation They can improve glucose intolerance Low bifidobacteria is associated with a ton of different health problems We get bifidobacteria from fermented dairy and sauerkraut They love starch loving bacteria, especially fermented starch There is a little less known about roseburia bacteria and fewer species We do know that they are very important for maintaining gut barrier health So if you have low roseburia you have a leakier gut They are very important immune regulators, especially at reducing inflammation Low roseburia is also associated with many health conditions: Cardiovascular disease Autoimmune disease IBS Neurological disease Allergies Asthma They are really important members of a healthy gut microbiome The levels of this bacteria were tanked in the study Another genus had taken their place, called Hungatella This strain isn't as well studied as bifidobacteria or roseburia But hungatella are TMAO producers They are absolutely associated with TMAO And this is probably why given that these people following Paleo were also consuming more red meat than the controls So they were consuming the precursors at the same time as they were shifting their gut bacteria towards a TMAO producing bacteria type Their gut bacteria was making more TMAO We don't super understand if high hungatella might be linked with disease but we do know that the low roseburia and low bifidobacteria is potentially a problem As this study looks at high TMAO and all these different measurements of what these people are eating and we have this shift in the gut bacteria We have all of this really fascinating correlation analysis to try to understand what aspect it was of the study diet that was actually causing these shifts While TMAO itself was mostly aligned with red meat consumption, the shift in the gut microbiome that was driving TMAO production was actually most closely related to total carb consumption as well as resistant starch consumption In the control group, those people were mostly eating grains as their carb source In the Paleo and pseudo-Paleo group, they were mostly eating non-starchy vegetables Hardly any roots and tubers Hardly any fruit So both groups were only consuming 90ish grams of carbs a day, but getting quite a bit of fiber They were consuming 6 to 7 servings of vegetables a day As you dig into the details of what they were eating, they were not eating as much resistance starch This indicates that this particular implementation of Paleo in this particular study is a low carb  Paleo template Less than 100 grams of carbs a day Close to 30 grams of fiber This is where the change in the gut microbiome is really predictable Both roseburia and bifidobacteria thrive in starchy conditions and are very sensitive to the types of carbohydrates we consume Out gut bacteria have an amazing ability to digest carbohydrates Sarah shared more on this process If we don't feed our bifidobacteria the right type of food it can't survive This is why this is such a sensitive species There is this whole other fascinating to Sarah link with TMAO and what is happening in a low carb diet and the gut bacteria This whole other life form is called Archaea These are normal residents of the gut They are the main methane producers These particular methane-producing Archaea use compounds like TMAO and TMA to produce methane The diet factor that most strongly correlates with Archaea in the gut is carbohydrate consumption We know that Archaea are fruit and starch lovers Sarah dug deeper into the picture being painted by the results from this study All of the things that would fix this gut microbiome and reduce TMAO production is to eat starchy roots and tubers and fruit When you dig into these details this study makes a very strong case for high starchy vegetable consumption not being sufficient to support the gut microbiome It is not enough to get fiber from non-starchy vegetables We need the type of fiber that is in fruit and resistance starch in root vegetables that is going to support a healthy gut microbiome that is going to reduce the risk of disease This study very cleverly used TMAO as a marker of those gut microbiome changes It is the mainstream media that is then making the leap to it actually impacting cardiovascular disease risk Stacy said that it is shocking to see another study supporting this idea that vegetables are good for you Sarah is really starting to see the evidence accumulate for problems associated with long-term low carb approaches We need a diversity of fruits and vegetables and need to not be afraid of the carbohydrates in starchy vegetables Even if you can't do nightshades there are plenty of wonderful options We need to not be fruit-phobic The science is mounting up that we actually do best with moderate carbs, moderate fat, moderate protein These approaches that are driving macronutrient extremes and even macronutrient imbalance have problems associated with them Why have these diets lasted so long as weight loss approaches? It is because it is a set of rules that result in ditching hyper-palatable foods and trick you into reducing your caloric intake When we can formulate a much healthier option that embraces whole food sources of carbohydrates without demonizing them It this uphill battle against the amount of misinformation that is out there on the internet that needs to be fixed Sarah's call to action (besides everyone going home and eating a sweet potato) is to contribute to this conversation of avoiding carb phobia The manufactured food carbohydrates are clearly bad, but we don't need to lump these super nutrient-dense roots, tubers, starchy vegetables and fruit and demonize them with cupcakes Stacy shared her thoughts on how we as humans are drawn to very dogmatic ideals The truth of the matter is that not all carbs are the same (49:42) Closing Thoughts If you found this show fascinating, go back and check out the insulin showfor more on gut health and overall human health It will help to make a lot of sense of the study Stacy shared examples of cases when kids are put on extreme diets and does it make sense to put kids into these dogmatic bubbles? If you answered no, then why does it make sense to put yourself into these bubbles? Is it just purely weight loss, or are you really thinking about health? Studies like this always make Stacy go back to the mentality of, just focus on health Colorful, rainbow foods exist for a reason There is so much science to support why it is healthy for you Stacy reminds people that none of us are perfect Making healthy choices every day is something we need to be mindful of, and that is hard It can be overwhelming, but there are things you can do to make it easier on yourself and to be excited Take your kids with you to the grocery store and let them pick out vegetables and fruits that they love When you get home from the store cut them up and have them on hand in the fridge We as adults can do this to This is the kind of thing where it is easy to get frustrated and overwhelmed with mixed messages  and not sure what to do and to feel like you can't win And this isn't the case If good quality gluten-free oats agree with you and your family, enjoy them Add some antioxidant-rich fruits, mix in some yogurt if that agrees with you because these things are feeding your gut in a good way It is about balance, and if we just relaxed into real food a little bit it would come easier and more natural to us Sarah agrees with Stacy Gluten-free oats are a gut microbiome superfood These won't agree with everyone  There are a list of foods that we define as not being Paleo, but they are great for the gut microbiome and when prepared correctly are nutrient-dense whole foods Sarah identifies with the label Paleo, but she thinks of Paleo as a diet that looks to Paleoanthropology in terms of understanding human biology and then confirms with contemporary studies with a biological systems approach It has a rooted in science approach This study is a really good illustration of the importance of taking this really thorough broad look at what foods do for us and don't do for us And also understanding that one of the biggest problems that we have run into over the last 50 years is this idea that we have to just make a list of yes foods and no foods We define all of these diets by what you cut out, not based on what you eat When people are troubleshooting they cut out more It isn't what you don't eat that makes a diet healthy, it is what you actually put in your face that makes your diet something that supports your body or not Sarah thinks it is important for this community to stop with the memes, the soundbites, and the lists and the rules Start embracing a broader education around health topics that help us really understand what is in foods that help our bodies and what is in foods that may potentially undermine our health We need to start looking at the gray and not just the black and white so that we can start making informed choices Look at universal truths as opposed to arbitrary rules Dig in and understand If you want to help your gut health, be sure to check out Stacy and Sarah's favorite probiotic 15% off with code PALEOVIEW15 Visit: https://thriveprobiotic.com/thepaleoview Stacy feels a difference when she remembers to take her probiotic every day Thank you Sarah for taking the time to do all of this research Thanks for listening everyone! We will be back next week! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(0:40) Welcome Welcome back to The Paleo View everyone! This is the last week that Stacy will be coming to you from a location other than Virginia Matt and Stacy have been on the road for 61 days They are heading back to Virginia the day after this show was recorded Stacy is looking forward to being back home and snuggling her pets Stacy is looking forward to discussing this week's topic, as Sarah and Stacy have been wanting to cover this topic for a while now This week's episode will include information on hormones and body parts, so if you typically listen to this show with little ears around you may want to be careful, depending on your comfort level Sarah noted that this week's episode is about men's health, which is a really fun topic for the hosts The discussion will focus on men's hormonal and reproductive health If you aren't yet ready to discuss these topics with your little one, be sure to listen to this show without your little people around Stacy is looking forward to sharing this discussion with her three teenage boys This episode is sponsored by EverlyWell This is an awesome sponsor for this episode since Stacy and Sarah will be talking about testosterone EverlyWellis an at-home lab testing company that offers a variety of tests, ranging from food sensitivity to metabolism, to a thyroid test, vitamin D, testosterone and general men’s health The tests are private, simple and all processed through certified labs All you have to do is head to EverlyWell, choose your tests, and they’ll be shipped directly to your doorstep Then, once you complete your sample collection and send it back into EverlyWell’scertified labs, they will process your sample and send you your results via EverlyWell’ssecure online platform within just 5 days EverlyWelltakes all of the guesswork out of lab testing and puts the power into your hands to complete a range of important health tests all from home To check out EverlyWellvisit: https://everlywell.com/thepaleoview You can get 15% off with the code 'ThePaleoView' For Stacy, while this week's topic doesn't particularly pertain to her, she is looking forward to applying this week's information to the men in her life (6:52) Q & A This week's episode is inspired by a question from John John writes: "Hi ladies! I know if I say nice things, there's a better chance my question will be answered. Fortunately, that's easy to do. As a researcher myself I love that the Paleo View emphasizes facts over dogma. I know when you answer a question, I will learn something, and that is about the highest compliment I can give a podcast. I love that the two of you are interesting to listen to, and I have been a regular listener since (about) episode 20 (the early shows were good too!!). As one of your '6 male listeners', my question involves men's health. While there have been a number of shows dedicated to women's health, I have often wondered if there would be any link between a Paleo diet (or other dietary factors) and testosterone and/or erectile dysfunction. There's also a pretty substantial supplement business that claims to raise testosterone; any truth in these claims? I know there's the basic 'eat a healthy diet and exercise' but I thought maybe you could bring a more scientific approach to the question. I also feel that many women who have husbands/boyfriends dealing with these issues would be interested in understanding whether/how Paleo might help. Thanks!!" Stacy noted that testosterone is not just a male hormone She isn't sure what all this hormone effects and is looking forward to Sarah diving in on this Sarah wants to take John's question and focus in on: The role that testosterone has on men's health The things that cause testosterone deficiency What this looks like What diet and lifestyle factors might be involved What supplements will help raise testosterone levels Testosterone as the predominantly male sex hormone has a major role in development and puberty It also has a fundamental role in health The crossover with women's health happens as testosterone regulates muscle size/strength, the general turnover of muscle tissue, bone growth and strength, sex drive, sperm production, it impacts mood, cognition, attention, memory, spatial awareness, behavior, negotiation abilities It regulates libido in women as well Sarah shared details from a study that was done on the correlation between testosterone levels and men's negotiation tactics and skills Overall testosterone has a pretty big impact on psychology and physiology Low testosterone can be seen in lack of motivation, lack of healthy competitive nature Stacy thinks about the way healthy competition can be a really good thing Sarah noted that in the male body you really only see testosterone excess in the context of a bodybuilder or a professional athlete doping with testosterone It is not a common physiological occurrence that the male body will make extra testosterone In women, we see testosterone excess in PCOS This condition is hallmarked by elevated testosterone levels Women have so little in our bodies compared to men that we have this room for excess With men, this is not the case The health challenge with testosterone for men is low levels Testosterone generally decreases with age, starting in middle age We see this at a rate of 1 to 2% a year This is considered part of normal aging It is not as dramatic as menopause since it is a gradual decline There are some symptoms that echo menopause though when a man's testosterone is low Symptoms of testosterone deficiency: Hot flashes Reduced body and facial hair Loss of muscle mass Low libido Erectile dysfunction Impotence Small testicles Reduced sperm count Infertility It can lead men to form breast tissue Irritability Depression Low concentration Osteoporosis As is the case with all hormones there is a spectrum A small deficiency in this hormone is going to cause an amount of these symptoms that might be easily dismissed We typically see this in something so minor that we brush it off It is not until it is a really big problem that we ask the question - what is going on With a lot of these symptoms, you might not even tie them with testosterone levels unless you have a really good functional medicine specialist or you go and do the men's health panel from EverlyWell  The problems with elevated testosterone levels we classically associated with bodybuilders We see: Really bad acne Liver damage An increase in heart attack risk Weight gain Aggressive behavior Irritability Impaired judgment Delusions The dominant studies of this are on athletes who dope Stacy noted that she feels there is a stigma around low testosterone levels and the idea of doping or supplementing to raise these levels She reminded listeners that Stacy and Sarah are not judging men for what they might need to do for their health Sarah noted the difference between doping and hormone replacement Doping specifically refers to taking excess You are not trying to achieve normal levels You are trying to achieve high levels for the sake of performance If your levels are low, hormone replacement may be the best treatment This is a conversation to have with your doctor The best treatment may be to take exogenous testosterone This is the exact same thing that an athlete would take The difference is the philosophy behind it If you are taking it as a hormone replacement your goal is to reach normal levels and to regulate your levels As opposed to an athlete who is taking it to increase performance, and their cost-benefit analysis is very different in the context of testosterone excess (23:08) Testosterone Deficiency Beyond the symptoms associated with testosterone deficiency, the health risks include some other bigger risk factors Deficiency increases your risk of: Metabolic syndrome Cardiovascular disease and mortality Inflammation It is worthwhile doing some investigating and really trying to dig a little deeper in terms of measuring testosterone levels and potentially either addressing diet and lifestyle factors and/or testosterone hormone replacement in order to bring levels up to normal in order to reduce those other risk factors Stacy asked how one would know about normal levels Sarah noted that the "normal" range for testosterone levels is huge There is not really a good indicator if one should be at the higher or lower end of the range in order to have optimal whatever it is It is typically diagnosed based on the combination of the actual number and the symptom checklist This is why working with a functional integrative medical practitioner can be very helpful Again, EverlyWellhas a straight testosterone test that is quite inexpensive and also a Men's Health Panel that includes testosterone, DHA, estradiol, and cortisol There are no studies that look at named diets and men's sexual health There is still a lot of information about the role that micronutrients, lifestyle factors and broader dietary factors that can help influence how we implement a Paleo diet to best support testosterone regulation Exercise is one of the best things that both men and women can do to support testosterone levels Specifically resistance training Endurance training does tend to lower testosterone when combined with calorie restriction Sleep is one of the biggest lifestyle influences on testosterone Sarah shared the findings from studies done in an institution When participants were only getting 5 hours of sleep a night, they saw a 15% decrease in testosterone This is basically the same levels as what is seen in a 65-year-old man Testosterone levels seem to be closely tied to the amount of REM sleep we get each night Stress levels are also an important factor to consider when looking for ways to impact testosterone levels Chronic stress is linked to low testosterone As far as diet, there is not much data out there in terms of big dietary trends The relation with diet and testosterone is much more micronutrient focused Deficiency in a few nutrients can cause low testosterone Vitamin A Vitamin D Zinc Magnesium Vitamin K Supplementation in all of these nutrients can restore your levels Through liver, you can get vitamin A Testing your vitamin D levels will be best to see how to reach sufficiency Check out this podcast episodefor more information Omega 3 fats help to support testosterone metabolism If you supplement men with these nutrients it doesn't cause testosterone excess It is only related to deficiency in these nutrients driving low testosterone Once you have enough, the system can help regulate itself Chronic alcohol consumption can also cause low testosterone and antioxidants in general If you are not getting enough nutrients from your diet, magnifies the reduction in testosterone There is not a good link between testosterone and BMI But there are some interesting studies that show that losing weight can boost testosterone levels Sarah recommends looking at your intake of the micronutrients mentioned above, evaluating sleep and other lifestyle habits, and see if there is an obvious place where you can make some changes that are likely to help regulate testosterone If testosterone is really low, you are going to want to go right to a functional medicine specialist and look at testosterone replacement therapy Supplements Sarah looked into and recommends based on how safe the supplements are: Get a professional opinion before taking supplements to address a deficiency DHEA Creatine D-aspartic acid Fenugreek Ginger Ashwagandha Stacy wants to reiterate that before you make a smoothie with all the things, that testing your hormone levels and knowing where you are is so impactful While you could do this a variety of ways, Sarah and Stacy both use and recommend EverlyWell You or a loved one can test your hormone levels for under $50 using the code 'thepaleoview' Once you know where your levels are, then you can work with a functional medicine professional to look at your hormone levels and develop an action plan on how to handle Sarah emphasized how important it is to make decisions based on data when we are talking about hormone levels (59:04) Closing Thoughts Thank you so much for tuning in listeners! We hope you found this show helpful There are a number of other topics related to both female and male hormones and health that Stacy and Sarah are hoping to cover in upcoming episodes If you liked this episode, be sure to leave a review on iTunes and share it with people you love Thank you again so much for being here! Stacy looks forward to joining the show from Virginia Sarah thanks EverlyWellfor sponsoring this episode As a reminder, get 15% off with the code 'thepaleoview' at this link Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(0:41) Welcome Welcome back listeners to episode 363 of The Paleo View! Stacy is joining in from Austin, Texas will solid WiFi Also known as rant quality WiFi After taking a peek at the show outline, Stacy is feeling pretty excited about this week's episode Sarah had a great camping trip, but they were rained out the second night What started as scattered thunderstorms quickly evolved into strong storms with a wind advisory and severe weather water This was going to last 12 hours So they decided to have dinner, pack up and head home at 9:00 p.m. After traveling so late, Sarah had to spend an entire day resting up to offset the lack of sleep from the night before The time that they did have to camp was wonderful They hiked up to a mountain, down to a waterfall and they savored their time together in full-on nature mode Stacy is grateful that she has never had to experience a major storm while camping Matt, Stacy and the boys are excited to explore Austin and to eat at some of their favorite spots They went from cool temperatures at their last stop in Santa Fe to warm temperatures in Texas Before Santa Fe, they were able to visit the Petrified Forest and it was an incredible experience Listeners, add this spot to your bucket list of places to visit This week Stacy and Sarah will be talking about fad diets The question that kicked this all off Stacy received from a friend and had to do with phytonutrients in vegetables as being problematic This friend follows a ketogenic diet Phytonutrients in vegetables are one of the 'why' points that people in the ketogenic community mention when defending their dietary choices (14:06) Phytonutrients Sarah finds this 'why' point to be interesting It is looking at things like phytates and oxalates as being somehow problematic when it comes to mineral and nutrient absorption This isn't true, they don't stop you from absorbing nutrients and they don't leach nutrients or minerals from your body You have bacteria in your gut that actually processes oxalates and phytates and liberate the minerals that are bound Having a healthy gut microbiome is key for being able to absorb the minerals that are bound with phytic acid and oxalic acid There are plenty of other nutrients in even the highest phytate and highest oxalate vegetables that will be absorbed without our gut bacteria there to help So you can't say that you have poor gut health, so it is better for you to avoid these high phytate and oxalate vegetables The way that you grow those bacteria that help to break those down is by eating those foods High oxalate foods include organic radishes, turnips, spinach, and arugula We eat these foods raw and organic, and then we will expose our gut to basically nurture the colony There is no science that would point to any kind of risk associated with eating these vegetables This myth has been busted so many times, and yet it keeps coming back There is a lot of confusion around Phyto versus anti Phytonutrients and antinutrients are not the same things There is a huge body of scientific  literature showing us that a high phytonutrient diet is one of the most important aspects of reducing cancer risks and cardiovascular disease risk Most phytonutrients are incredibly potent antioxidants They are anti-aging They are anti-inflammatory They stop DNA from mutating They can protect against depression and dementia The range of phytonutrients and their effects is spectacular We know that there are two things in vegetables that are responsible for all of the benefits that come with a high vegetable consumption diet One is fiber because fiber regulates our digestive system and feeds our gut microbiome And the second is phytonutrients because of the huge range of benefits that phytonutrients have Sure there is a very very tiny percent of phytonutrients that in isolation could have a negative effect However, they are packaged in this package with so very many more positive effects Vegetables are really really really important Stacy is reminded that this is an exercise in being an educated consumer of information Evaluate the sources of your information Know where these sources are getting their information and look into those sources yourself Sarah and Stacy strive when preparing The Paleo View to provide listeners with the base knowledge to evaluate whether or not something makes sense Sarah has been working to educate people on how to evaluate science and how to value science This podcast should be a place where listeners can ask questions when the information they are seeing is too confusing and to give you the base knowledge that you need to see something in all of the scientific research (29:53) Q & A Jackie says, "what do you think of the Paleo Green diet, Keto Green diet, or the Pegan diet? I have heard Dr. Hyman and Dr. Perlmutter talk about them as it relates to keeping the microbiome healthy by getting tons of low-carb veggies & prebiotic fiber in the diet. This is a few different variations of recognizing limitations within keto Stacy and Sarah have talked about the problems with a keto diet in two previous podcast episodes (hereand here) There were two papers published in 2019 on the ketogenic diet that showed very undesirable shifts in the gut microbiome Sarah has written blog posts on this research, which you can find using the links below: https://www.thepaleomom.com/how-ketogenic-diet-wreaks-havoc-on-your-gut/ https://www.thepaleomom.com/adverse-reactions-to-ketogenic-diets-caution-advised/ https://www.thepaleomom.com/the-case-for-more-carbs/ https://www.thepaleomom.com/how-many-carbs-should-you-eat/ https://www.thepaleomom.com/importance-of-vegetables/ https://www.thepaleomom.com/the-amazing-world-of-plant-phytochemicals/ Sarah has been talking about this for five or six years now, that her deep concern about keto is that it simply doesn't provide enough fiber It's so low carb that it is extremely difficult to get sufficient fiber to support a healthy gut microbiome It is also low fiber diversity Yes, there is a therapeutic benefit to incorporate a ketogenic diet when treating a neurological and neurodegenerative disease People in these situations are taking on a keto diet under medical supervision When we discuss people using a keto diet to support weight loss, this is a different conversation What is happening now that this research is out showing that keto has all these problems: 1) Some people are dismissing every paper that shows that keto might not be great 2) Other people are looking at the information and trying to figure out how to get the benefits of keto while mitigating the detriments Dr. Anna Cabeca is one of the leaders of the Green Keto movement This dietary approach basically combines keto with the alkaline diet The alkaline diet is rich in veggies, low meat, which has also been well busted in the scientific literature The idea is that by eating a lot of vegetables that it is healthy for the kidneys because  the kidneys control the Ph of the body and the phytonutrients in vegetables provide the raw materials for the kidneys to effectively do their job However, there is no scientific evidence supporting the low-meat part of this diet High meat consumption is not strenuous on the kidneys Dr. Cabeca has combined that philosophy of consuming tons of vegetables (especially green vegetables to keep the carbs low) and has basically created a more plant-focused version of keto She recommends using supplements to maintain ketosis on this plan The thought process in this is overall good because you are getting a larger diversity of vegetables and you are getting a lot of fiber However, there are still other concerns that Sarah has about why this dietary approach is not ideal There are things that keto triggers in a low insulin environment We do need to make some insulin because it is important for thyroid health, muscle and bone health, hormone health, and memory There are a lot of things that this super hormone does in the body Low carb diets have this fundamental flaw of not providing us with nutrient sufficiency and missing out on some nutrients that our body really needs It's an interesting thought to try to get the best of keto, but the best of keto is not great There have been a couple of studies that have shown that when you lose weight on a ketogenic diet that you lose more muscle per pound of fat than you do when you are just counting calories It is a fad diet that doesn't live up to its promises Even though Green Keto is a really good thought, it's still not enough Stacy feels that any lifestyle or diet that requires the purchasing of anything to add to your diet means you are missing something If you are being told you need supplements or you need this thing to test your ketones, it means that it's not complete in an of itself It also means that it is not sustainable longterm Both Stacy and Sarah choose to take supplements because they aren't getting all that they need of certain nutrients (like vitamin D) from diet alone But Stacy and Sarah are not here to tell people that they need to take certain supplements because it is missing from the lifestyle they advocate Stacy pointed out the way in which fad diets tend to get hung up in labels She loves the way Sarah describes the way she eats as a low-inflammatory, high nutrient-dense diet It is super important for people to understand This description is a nuance that doesn't sell well as a fad diet book However, it does really help health as it relates to a longterm lifestyle for people to figure out individually what works for them (44:20) The Pegan Diet Jackie also asked about the Pegan Diet which is the terminology spearheaded by Dr. Hyman Dr. Hyman saw limitations in both a vegan and Paleo approach He wanted to take the best of both and combined them into a Pegan approach It's plant-based Paleo, but not in the way that Stacy and Sarah talk about it Sarah wants to preface this part of the conversation about what Pegan is by talking a little bit about what her upcoming book, The Gut Microbiome is all about It is not available for preorder just yet, but she is working really hard on it This will not be a Paleo book She is going through the gut microbiome research and writing about what the research says There is no branded diet in it whatsoever She is building the principles of a healthy diet from the ground up based on our microbiome health When you build this diet from the ground up it looks like a very veggie-rich Paleo diet with that Mediterranean, olive oil type, healthy fat focus Moderate fat Moderate protein High vegetable consumption, including fruit and root vegetables So it is moderate carbohydrate There is room for non-Paleo foods that actually may be very beneficial for us This includes lentils, chickpeas, split peas, gluten-free oats, rice, and A2 dairy This book has no diet dogma behind it and simply reflects the research Dr. Hyman's recommendations include: No sugar Nothing that has pesticides, hormones or GMOs Nothing that is refined or manufactured High vegetable consumption Not too much fruit Healthy fats Limiting or avoiding dairy (goat or sheep instead of cow) Always organic and grass-fed 4 to 6 oz. serving of meat per meal He has a strong focus on food quality Recommends avoiding all gluten Gluten-free whole grains sparingly Lentils are the best Only eat starchy beans every once in a while Functional medicine is also another point that he highly recommends Sarah thinks that this is the best of the trademarked version of a plant-based diet combined with Paleo This might potentially still be a little carb phobic However, it does increase Phyto content consumption Overall Sarah thinks that there is a lot of confusion within the Paleo community, which is why she wrote the Paleo Approach As new research emerges, there are no prominent figures within the community who shares on these findings This means that there are people within the community who are not highly informed individuals who are making recommendations that are not based on scientific evidence There are still people who are following a very high meat consumption version of Paleo There is still a high level of people who follow Paleo as a meme instead of a way of life Stacy and Sarah's approach is to try to correct the record about what Paleo is so that people coming into the community understand the importance of vegetables, eating snout to tail, nutrient density, seafood, toxin concerns, etc. They are trying to create an evidence-led robust scientific foundation for Paleo to stand on So that people coming into the community are not adopting a fad version of Paleo where they are just eating a ton of meat and bacon and dark chocolate Where people instead are eating a low-inflammatory, nutrient-density diet Dr. Hyman has looked at those communication challenges within the Paleo community and has decided to rebrand and create a new thing with a new name that can fall under his umbrella It's a different solution to the challenges that Paleo has right now as it grows and absorbs different alternative health communities and the different priorities that different health communities bring to the Paleo community The Pegan approach is interesting to Sarah because it's basically giving up Paleo has become this unmanageable giant thing, and its a ship now that is getting really hard to steer Let's just create a new thing and rebrand In general, Sarah thinks that Pegan is standard Paleo with room for self-experimentation This generally seems like a thing about branding Sarah just isn't sure what she thinks about that She sees the Paleo community as this really amazing group of people who are really invested in their health and she doesn't want to just jump ship on that to simply have a different framework to say the exact same thing She would rather stay rooted and embedded in this community and help to continue to provide that scientific foundation for her choices and call out where influences from other alternative health communities come into Paleo are misled or nuanced Sarah wants to make sure that this community is really well informed and understands why one food is great, why one food isn't, and all the world of gray in between where foods can have pros and cons and might work for you and might not To be able to approach Paleo in not just a balanced way, or a science-led way, but in a non-dogmatic, non-rule based way Stacy says that it makes so much sense to live in a non-dogmatic way, but use principles This is consistent with what Stacy and Sarah have been talking about on the show for years If you look at the way the Paleo community has gone with Chris Kresser's Paleo Code, Rob Wolff's Wired to Eat, and The Perfect Health Diet, you can find countless resources that show the ways in which the Paleo template has evolved as science has evolved Stacy thinks that it is a lot more difficult for people to wrap their mind around the idea of these are guiding rules about food But they are guiding, and they are not hard and fast You will have to figure out what works for you For Stacy personally, she thinks about food and asks is this nourishing me? Or is it not? And there is the additional factor of, is this detrimental to my health? Stacy and Sarah both shared how they personalize based on the years of experimentation they have done Stacy is baffled that we are still trying to put labels and rules around what everyone can or can't eat She feels like we are all individual people who come from different genetic backgrounds And because of these differences, we tolerate different foods differently It's as simple as getting back to basics Eating real food that supports health The more that we really have this mantra with ourselves, "is it helping me get healthier?" And if it's not, is it harming my health? Am I using it in a way that develops social or emotional development for myself It's not just a vacuum (1:08:37) Closing Thoughts Sarah has to share one really exciting thing before they wrap up with is week's show Next week is The Paleo View's seven-year anniversary! Stacy feels that seven years is a very long time And yet it is interesting, that here they are revisiting the principles that brought them here, to begin with It changed both Stacy's and Sarah's lives in terms of their energy, their health, their weight loss, and so much more The science is still pointing to the guiding principles that got us there, to begin with Sarah finds it amazing that even after recording for seven years, they are not running out of topics to discuss Which is a testament to how important it is to approach diet and lifestyle as an education rather than a sound bite Sarah is so grateful for not just this platform, but The Paleo View listeners Stacy shared on the level of deep connection that she feels towards this community of listeners Stacy would love to meet listeners at her final events Be sure to check out the details here Thank you so much listeners for being here for seven years For showing up at events or each week to download and be with Stacy and Sarah They adore you and hope to share something clever to celebrate the monumental milestone Thank you again so much listeners - Stacy and Sarah will be back again next week! 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(0:41) Hellos & Happenings Hello, listeners from sunny Arizona! Stacy is loving everything about the southwest, except the internet connection Matt and Stacy were in Sedona when this episode was recorded This stop along their trip has been a great rest and restore spot This week will just be a check-in show since Stacy is having some trouble with the internet reliability There is a topic on the docket for episode 363 that both Stacy and Sarah are super passionate about and incredibly excited to discuss and share with listeners They don't want to record this epic discussion with the chance of the internet going out mid recording Sarah is about to head to the mountains for a family camping trip Sarah's mom is in town and will be joining them for a trip to the mountains They will be escaping the heat, internet connection, and cell service Sarah and Stacy chatted about screen time limits Sarah's husband suggested that she give the time limit features a try but Sarah passed Stacy tried them for a little while when she was still working She set the bedtime feature which was helpful Sarah does use the 'do not disturb' feature on her phone to set boundaries on her time Stacy reminded listeners that if you have been busy working all summer, that simply turning your phone off is a great way to create time to recharge You can even set up your 'do not disturb' feature so that certain people (spouse, kids, etc.) can still reach you via phone call Stacy thinks that having those occasional breaks from your internet is really special Let it be known, Stacy does not like sand. Matt, Stacy and the kids rode ATVs in the desert and had a blast disconnecting and being in the moment Disconnecting is such a great and truly easy way to reconnect with those you love and to fully live in the moment Ask yourself what you need and what really matters and make more time for these things and people Sarah gives talks at business conferences and shares on work-life balance Sarah shares the research on how much you can get done when you take breaks for movement, manage stress, and get enough sleep The very information she shares is a great reminder to Sarah on how and why to take digital media detoxes The mountains are very restorative to Sarah for many reasons, but especially because of the digital downtime the getaway provides Matt and Stacy's boy's first interaction with a cactus Sarah is going to be an American citizen in a week!! She passed her test Sarah worked so hard to pass this test and ultimately over-prepared for it On July 29 she will take her oath By the end of that ceremony, she will have her documentation showing she is an American citizen Sarah's husband will have his ceremony on his birthday Sarah shared on why this is such a meaningful moment in her life America's naturalization process is really unique and special Stacy doesn't think there is much more she can add to Sarah's amazing cherry on top of this check-in show Have a wonderful week! Next week Stacy and Sarah will be back with an amazing episode! Thank you, listeners and huge congratulations to Sarah again! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(0:41) Welcome Welcome back to The Paleo View everyone! Stacy is still on the road, and as mentioned last week, is going to talk about how life on the road is going Please welcome this week's special guest, Matt, the other half of Real Everything Matt and Stacy are on day 31 of a 68-day cross-country road trip Recording this week's episode from their Las Vegas hotel This week Matt and Stacy plan to share travel tips from their experience How to eat real food How to plan accordingly What to research during the planning process The lessons Matt and Stacy have learned (3:24) Where to Begin First and foremost, decide on an overall plan Part of Matt and Stacy's plan included how they were going to get to where they wanted to go They initially planned to do an RV trip, but traveling via RV wasn't a fit for them for many reasons Specifically, it is really hard to explore cities with an RV Traveling via minivan has really worked out well Matt and Stacy also looked at all the locations they wanted to visit and exploring their lodging options along their route Stops with friends they could stay with Airbnb Hotels Sarah asked how Matt and Stacy plotted their route (how many miles they would cover each day, how they tracked the details, etc.) Stacy created a Google Doc that started as a list and then turned that information into a table in Google Docs This is an app that they can track on their phone, and even Cole has been able to follow along with their travels plan Matt and Stacy's parents also have access to the document so they can track along with their travels They have also used Google Maps to plot their plans Matt mentioned that they did try using road trip travel apps, but they didn't add any features that were actually helpful Stacy recommends using a tool, whatever you feel comfortable with, to plan this out At first, the planning was happening in Matt and Stacy's heads Then Stacy was capturing details in her Notes app on her phone And eventually, the notes made their way into a Google Doc From there a formal final table was created They started their planning by asking each family member, what two places in the country do you want to visit? This began the plotting process Stacy also had some business to tend to along their travels, which gave them additional points to plot All of these map points and the dates relevant to those various points provided the structure that the trip needs There has been a bit of zigging and zagging in Matt and Stacy's travels, but it has worked out really well for them Another thing to consider is how long your family can be in the car They try to keep it to four hours or less, but they can do 8 to 10 hour days when needed They tried really hard to map out this trip so that they have 4 to 5 hour days on average, with less than a dozen long days on their travel plans Also, look at where you are going and what you are going to want to do once you are there How much time will you need or want at these spots? Keep in mind that you will not be able to see everything For Matt and Stacy's kids, this trip has been great to provide a glimpse into various locations that they want to revisit and explore further The other thing to consider is how to break your days up For example, if you are bringing a pet you will need to stop more often Matt and Stacy are kind of hardcore and avoid breaks They will tell the kids they are not stopping until they need gas again Factor in all breaks into your travel time One of the best things that Stacy did was find a cooler that plugs into the car chargeroutlet in their minivan It is literally a minifridge that also has an electric plug and wheels so that it rolls like a cooler They plug it into the car and then when they reach their destination for that day, they unplug it and bring it into their stop Matt and Stacy also brought along an electric hot water kettleto make their own coffee, Wild Zorapacks and Pique Tea (18:46) Eating on the Go For the most part, Matt, Stacy and the boys have eaten wraps while in the car They have kept romaine lettuce, lunch meat, high-quality cheese, squeeze bottle mayo, and mustard They have also kept trail mixes in stock in the car, but they lean towards the wraps and baby carrots so that people can get in healthy food while on the road Matt and Stacy set up the minivan with the middle seat missing and this is where the cooler and the snack bin lives The snack bin lid serves as the tabletop so that Cole can make people wraps Know your limitations While you are reducing stress in your life without the typical daily stressors (work, house chores, etc.) you are increasing your stress factors in other ways Less than ideal sleep Sitting down for extended periods of time Tracking the mileage logistics So don't add the stress of eating foods that you know are going to cause irritation Stacy has been very careful to not do the things that she know will irritate her She has avoided nightshades, corn, and low-quality dairy This has made a huge difference and has allowed Stacy to feel great (23:21) The Other Things Everyone is starting to feel a bit homesick, but still appreciating the journey as they reach the halfway mark Santa Monica will be a great break for everyone Stacy is separating from the group for a work event Matt and the boys are going to use this bit of time to relax The other piece Stacy wants to mention about planning and being organized - clear bins For short trips, Matt and Stacy typically use storage items they have around the house like paper bags or grocery tote bags However, for this particular trip, they invested in clear stacking bins that allows them to see what is in which bin They simply open the trunk and can see where everything is at Before they left they measured out the space to see how the bins could fit and how many they could fit Matt and Stacy also purchased a Turtle Topperwhich has been a great investment that has helped with their travels The Turtle Toppercame with matching duffel bags that fit perfectly inside the storage container It is also very compact and hasn't impacted their ability to fit in garages When it came to packing, this trip really forced the family to practice a minimalism mentality Even when out exploring, when the boys want to buy something, Stacy challenges them to think about where the item would fit They packed for all weather types Each family also packed two pairs of walking shoes and one pair of sandals Since you can't get mail, you really need to plan ahead for what all you will need You could potentially use an Amazon locker if you were to time your travels exactly right Other clothing items: Raincoats Hoodies Hats Sunglasses A first aid kitwas also an incredibly important addition to their packing list The snafu that happened with Finn that made Stacy feel like a supermom for packing the ultimate first aid kit Being able to think on your toes, research and adapt are all important pieces that you will need while on the road Matt and Stacy also packed some key supplements (anti-gluten pill, activated charcoal, and probiotics) Stacy asked Sarah to share more on the gluten enzymes she recommends and why There are a few different varieties out there The one Sarah keeps in her purse is Glutenza made my Numedica It's not designed so that someone with celiac disease can eat a baguette, but it's designed to protect you against cross-contamination It is also really good at breaking apart similar proteins in other high allergen foods It is a sophisticated supplement and Sarah keeps a bottle of this in her purse at all times It has been a lifesaver for her Matt and Stacy have been happy to have this supplement on hand while traveling as well Whenever they are in a home with a kitchen, the first thing Matt, Stacy and the boys do is meal plan for the exact amount of time they will be with a kitchen and stock up on food supplies They may pick one special place to eat out at but are otherwise trying to avoid eating out Be sure to do your gluten-free research Read reviews Stacy looks for details that show that they understand what it means to prepare gluten-free recipes (50:28) Closing Thoughts Matt and Stacy need to pack up and get ready to leave Las Vegas They are heading to Joshua Tree National Park next One of the things that Sarah wanted to mention is that many of the products that Matt and Stacy mentioned are actually sponsors of the show and offer exclusive deals to Paleo View listeners Chomps Chomps.com/ThePaleoView Coupon code: THEPALEOVIEW for 20% off and free shipping Wild Zora wildzora.com/thepaleoview Free Shipping and up to 30% off Vital Proteins https://www.vitalproteins.com/thepaleoview Exclusive bundles of Stacy's and Sarah's favorites are available through the link above Pique Tea piquetea.life/thepaleoview 28% off and free shipping Thrive Probiotic https://thriveprobiotic.com/thepaleoview 15% off with code PALEOVIEW15 Stacy and Sarah reach out to sponsors with products that they already use and genuinely love These codes stay open - you can use them all the time Be sure to take advantage of these great deals! Stacy thanked Sarah for sharing details on Glutenza right off the top of her head It was great to catch up again! Sarah and Stacy will be back again next week Special thanks to Matt for joining Stacy and Sarah for this week's show! And thank you to listeners for tuning in! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(0:41) Welcome Welcome back to the Paleo View! On this week's episode, we will be discussing chlorine and the science behind what the exposure to chlorine does and how to detox Sarah noted that this is a complex topic that doesn't have straightforward answers Before we dive in, a big thank you to Joovvfor sponsoring this week's show While Stacy and Sarah will be sharing more information on Joovv as the show goes on, check them out here: https://joovv.com/paleoview (3:25) The Downsides & Upsides It is important to start the discussion of the downsides of chlorination with a discussion of the upsides Chlorination is used across the globe as the number one way to disinfect pools It is an amazing killer of microbes Before chlorination of pools was a normal procedure, really harmful illnesses were transmitted through pools Recreational Water Illnesses include a wide variety of infections, such as gastrointestinal, skin, ear, respiratory, eye, neurologic, andwoundinfections. The most commonly reported RWI isdiarrhea. Diarrheal illnesses are caused by germs such as Crypto Chlorination is an amazing tool for making sure that swimming pools are safe from a micro perspective It does come at a bit of a trade-off though Because chlorine interacts with organic molecules, there is a variety of by-products that are chlorine based molecules that are formed and are potentially problematic monochloramines dichloramines i Trichloramines trihalogenometans (THM) haloacetic acid (HAA) There are other halogens that have been used to disinfect pools, but they all also cause similar by-products There is an obvious solution There is a move to create new filtration systems though One of the things that happen with these chlorine by-products is that they are evaporating off the surface of the water and they are all oxidants The mechanism behind a lot of the issues that they cause are all oxidative damage They are highest in the air just above the surface of the water There is a move to create air filtration systems in public pools, especially where elite athletes train A lot of the research stems from studies on elite swimmers They have typically double the asthma rates of the average population There is this really interesting give and take that has to do with the chloramine The amount of chloramine in the air is very different depending on the pool you are swimming in Most of the science has to do with asthma and other lung issues Elite athletes, in general, have higher rates of asthma and higher rates of lung infections We see this in swimmers, cyclists, triathletes, and long-distance runners Chlorine is not awesome because it is a toxic chemical These low levels of chlorine exposure that we are getting through chlorinated water, assuming the water is treated correctly, are associated with problems So is elite training though Take a moment to recognize that while swimmers have higher rates of asthma, so do a lot of elite athletes That is because this level of training actually suppresses aspects of the immune system and over activates other systems in the body Other athletes that don't step foot anywhere near a pool also have higher rates of asthma But chlorine does seem to be a contributor This is because of the disruption that is happening to the lung barrier Barrier tissues are made up of a type of cell called an epithelial cell These cells have a top and a bottom with different processes happening within both the top and bottom Our skin, lungs, gut barrier and sinuses are made up of epithelial cells All of these tissues have the job of protecting the inside of our body from things happenings outside of our body Lungs and gut are different in the sense that they have to be somewhat permeable So even low levels of toxin exposure in the air above the surface of the pool can potentially disrupt the lung barrier There are some interesting studies showing that it's not just that someone with a predisposition to asthma has asthma made worse by breathing in chloramine, but actually, chloramine is contributing to the development of asthma There are studies showing different sizes of effect The majority of studies are showing that chlorine compounds do contribute to asthma and allergies later in life However, this is not uniform data The magnitude of the effect is very different So there isn't enough data to hone in on a common understanding Where the research is with this is still even just clarifying that the effect exists and understanding the mechanisms The mechanism seems to be the fact that chloramine and these other chlorine by-products are oxidant molecules that cause oxidative damage They cause damage to the lung barrier (15:38) Digging Deeper into the Research What can we do to prevent the negative effects that come with chloramine exposure? There is no science to look at anything like this We can infer that nutrients that are important for lung-barrier function are going to be really important for protecting the lung-barrier against the assault that these chloramine compounds are causing Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Zinc, Vitamin C, Omega-3 fats, and the gut microbiome All of these nutrients are already baked into a Paleo and AIP diet template Sarah inclination out of this is to just be mindful of her barrier tissue nutrients Sarah would also add glycine to the nutrient list even though there is no specific information linking glycine and lungs However, we know that glycine is important for other barriers because it forms connective tissue and there is a lot of connective tissue in the lungs So Sarah would make sure she is adding liver into her mix of foods, checking her vitamin D levels and supplementing accordingly, eating a lot of seafood and vegetables, and making sure she is looking after her stress, sleep, etc. Stacy asked if there is information available on the rate of absorption Sarah didn't see anything with that particular data There were two styles of studies that Sarah found through her research One is done on elite athletes where they are spending hours in the pool every single day and have the highest risk The other studies that are being done on general or pediatric populations are showing a lot more mixed results A lot of this has to do with how much time these study participants are spending in the pool There are some interesting studies where they look at an hour of swimming and looking at mechanisms Chloramine can be absorbed into the skin (25:52) Skin Health Stacy asked if using the dry sauna after swimming is helpful Detoxification, in general, is really helpful Joovvis also really good to help with this We push a lot of toxins out through our skin through sweating The other major concern with chloramine exposure is called chlorine contact dermatitis, which is a form of eczema Chlorine disrupts skin barrier (leaky skin = eczema) When there is a defect in the skin barrier that allows things to cross in that simulates an inflammatory response you get these little patches of inflamed, red, scaly skin There have been some interesting studies that look at an hour in the pool and how that is changing the skin and how it is working as a barrier Sarah shared more on the findings from this study An hour in the pool basically increases the permeability of the skin In the context of other risk factors for eczemathank you are creating this situation where eczemacan form That is why you don't see this happen in everyone, as there are gene mutations linked with eczema Chlorine is basically the barrier disruption that can be that initial event that leads to eczema The study found that the skin returned to normal within 24-hours The chlorine by-products are disrupting the skin barrier in a way that is very recoverable This implies that if we are doing all the other really important skin health things, the impact should be minimal if any at all Give the skin the nutrients it needs to recover quickly There is no data specifically linking an increased risk of chlorine contact dermatitis with vitamin D deficiency  Sarah doesn't think it is a huge leap of logic to go from the nutrients that are important for skin barrier health are going to be important for skin barrier health when that barrier is assaulted by chloramine How to protect your skin against chlorine based eczema Once you have it, don't treat it with histamine creams Its an inflammatory reaction so antiinflammatory creams are going to be the best option If you have a case that needs immediate intervention, go to your doctor However, if it is a minor reaction, it will likely resolve on its own Avoid additional exposure and let it heal If you are someone who regularly gets this skin irritation, you can lube up with vaseline However, this isn't a route that neither Sarah nor Stacy feel comfortable with and shared more on the 'why' There are a ton of post-swimming creams that are marketed that have vitamin C in them Vitamin C is a really important skin nutrient It is a powerful antioxidant Using these products will not be harmful, assuming the other ingredients are also good However, there is zero science on whether or not vitamin C can detoxify chloramine in the skin or reduce chlorine contact dermatitis The ingredients in beauty products are not regulated so it's challenging for the consumer to know what is good and what is not good There is no incentive for companies to collaborate with a researcher to test something Sarah is going to go back that there need to be more regulations on ingredients in personal care products The science is very compelling behind red and infrared wavelengths and the benefits to human physiology in a variety of situations, including skin health benefits There are some really good studies showing that red light therapy in the wavelengths that Joovvprovides in the type of dose-response that Joovvprovides can be beneficial for a variety of skin conditions While we don't have the science to show that Joovvcan help us recover from chlorine specifically we know that it is really good for the skin It can help reduce inflammation For Stacy, the health benefits of regular exercise outweigh what it is that might be happening short-term with the chlorine absorption The benefit of physical exercise is so significant that the minor risk associated with chlorine absorption is outweighed Sarah began the episode with a clear reminder for this very reason Lets remember why we put chlorine in pools before we get freaked out over what chlorine may do to a percentage of us Don't listen to this show and think that you should never swim again because you are worried about the chlorine Use the knowledge of nutrition and how to arm your skin with the nutrients it needs to recover and stay strong Enjoy the benefits of activity Steps to take to mitigate the potential problems associated with chlorine: The nutritional aspects Showering right after you swim Take a look at Joovv To get a hook up with Joovv, you can check it out here: https://joovv.com/paleoview Check out this podcast episodeas well for additional information and the science Stacy shared information on salt-water hot tubs versus chlorine hot tubs (53:05) Closing Thoughts Stacy is off to jet set to who knows where next Don't forget to meet up with Stacy at one of her events, which you can find the details here There will eventually be a podcast where Stacy will share the details on how they pulled the trip together This trip was on Matt and Stacy's bucket list and they are so overwhelmed with gratitude that they get to experience a trip like this with their kids So a huge thank you listeners for your support over the years and for helping to make this happen Thanks again to Joovvfor sponsoring this podcast Don't forget to check out Joovv here: https://joovv.com/paleoview Thank you again for listening! We will be back next week! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(0:41) Welcome Welcome back to The Paleo View! Stacy has no idea what day it is The Toth/McCarry crew is currently in Salt Lake City and will soon be heading on to Denver They have a whole lot of country left to explore, and lots of events on the calendar Stacy shared details on their zigzag travel plans Sarah sent out a warm Happy Canada Day to all the Candian listeners! And a Happy Independence Day to the American listeners! Special thank you to this week's sponsor, Wild Zora They are not just sponsoring this show but are also fueling Stacy's family as they are traveling across the country To check them out visit: wildzora.com/thepaleoview Using that link you can get free shipping and 30% off your order Wild Zora is jerky that has vegetables incorporated Stacy said they are delicious and the texture is perfect (7:15) Macronutrients & Micronutrients On this week's episode, Stacy and Sarah are going to talk about macronutrients While this is a little bit of a tangential discussion from the typical micronutrient nerdiness that this show covers, Stacy wanted to dig into this topic Macronutrients were something that Stacy did use to track when she was on a lifting schedule because she found that it did help with her performance Stacy has noticed that it is common to see foods marketed today towards the keto community These foods tend to be macronutrient heavy in one way or another Recently on Instagram Stacy saw someone sharing a  product with crazy macronutrient ratios It was a fat bomb that just didn't make sense on a macronutrient level What concerns Stacy about people going so focused on macros is when all acknowledgment towards balance is ignored Sarah has seen in gyms how they promote macro tracking At her gym, in particular, they have an 'Eat Your Macros' program In these instances, you see some people who aren't nutrient literate hitting their numbers with unhealthy foods/drinks Being overly focused on macronutrients runs into problems when it is not connected to a food quality conversation and a micronutrient conversation There is also this other part of this conversation that is happening right now where we are seeing these macronutrient extreme diets Examples include: Low/zero carb Keto Low fat Carnivore Sarah wants to take this episode to unpack macronutrients a little bit What is the difference between macros and micros? Macros really just translate to energy Macro means big It is nutrients that we need from food in big quantities Carbohydrates, fat, protein and fiber Micro means small It is nutrients that we need from food in small quantities Vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals, essential amino acids, and essential fatty acids The stuff that we need in big quantities translates into energy There is also some raw material stuff in macronutrients Protein is used to make proteins in our body It's not just making muscle, it is making components of every single cell Fat makes up cell membranes Our brain is about 60% fat Hormones are fat based molecules We use some of these things as building materials and the rest we use as energy to drive chemical reactions Fiber is really about feeding our gut microbiome Even though we need micronutrients in small quantities, it is quite a challenge to get micronutrient sufficiency This is the nutrient density piece that is always be covered on the show As soon as you try to get all the micronutrients that your body needs in adequate quantities from whole foods, you are forced into a Paleo or AIP style diet This means eating seafood, organ meat, a ton of vegetables, fruit, nuts and seeds, fresh herbs This is how you get micronutrient sufficiency (14:27) Our Needs Through the Scientific Lens Sarah is going to come at macronutrient guidelines by looking at basic ideas about human anatomy and physiology One of the ways to do this is by looking at hunter-gather intakes What is the macronutrient range that we see among hunter-gather populations, given that human evolution was often driven by the energy density of our food Sarah dug into these studies that have been completed across the world How foods are used to correct macronutrient imbalances We look at these societies that mimic the diet that we would have had for at least the last few hundred, thousand years of evolution These diets don't have any of the chronic health problems that are associated with industrial, western countries We observe the trends and form a hypothesis regarding the macronutrient levels that are likely ideal AMDR The Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine has set Accepted Macronutrient Distribution Ranges (AMDR) for protein, fat, and carbohydrates based on evidence from interventional trials with support of epidemiological evidence that suggests a role in the prevention or increased risk of chronic diseases and based on ensuring sufficient intake of essential nutrients Levels of too much or too little are associated with some kind of health problem This is completely based on contemporary studies AMDR for fat estimated to be 20 to 35% of total energy for adults AMDR for protein estimated to be 10 to 35% of total energy for adults AMDR for carbohydrates as an estimated 45 to 65 percent of total energy (and below 25 percent from sugars) doesn’t quite align with hunter-gatherer intakes We can take this information and through the lens of our philosophies on understanding science, we can add some interesting additional things on to that We know that higher protein intake is really really important for weight management We know that there are some genes where lower fat is really important 25% of people have one or more copies of the gene where a diet lower in fat is ideal for their bodies We know that with the modern food supply sugars are actually more important to limit than total carbohydrates When we start to add in this extra insight by taking in an even bigger picture view of the scientific evidence, we can come up with a macronutrient intake range that sort of fits modern science and hunter-gather intakes This will give us a pretty good target with a lot of wiggle room for self-experimentation When Sarah looks at all of this data together, here is what she ends up with: 20-35% of our total calories coming from fat 20-35% of our total calories coming from protein 30-60% of our total calories coming from whole food sources of carbohydrates This is what Sarah refers to as balanced macronutrients This doesn't mean that every meal needs to be super regimented The body seems to respond really well to fluctuations in macronutrients Ex: seasonal variability, macro timing throughout the day These macronutrient ranges don't look like any of the diet extremes To learn more about the challenges that arise from extreme diets, check out episodes 140and 305 Fad diets, where the primary goal is weight loss, are not designed to be healthy When we look at macronutrients and we look at them in this way, we are really looking at: What is the range where we are going to be able to maintain health? And these are the ranges that we end up in 30-60% calories from carbohydrates give us a lot of playing room (25:03) The Balancing Act What's curious to Stacy is the idea of this balance of macronutrients If you talk to three different people they would tell you three different things about what the ideal is Stacy does think it is true that it is an individual thing Sarah thinks that what we are learning is that too much or too little of any macronutrient is associated with health problems With micronutrients, we know that there is a range that is considered sufficient for most people Then there are these extra situations where you might need extra of certain micronutrients We also see that kind of variation in macros For example, if you are someone who is very active, that increases your protein requirements Every diet works to help you lose weight, but most of these diets promote both lean muscle mass loss and fat loss Depending on the diet, it can be up to a pound for pound (fat to muscle) loss When you lose muscle, you lower your basal metabolic rate Preserving lean muscle is really important for preserving metabolism If your metabolism tanks than you need lower amounts of calories to keep losing weight If you lose weight too quickly, you increase your hunger hormones, which drives appetite You have this perfect storm of being hungrier than you would normally be Making it harder to maintain your diet One of the ways to get around this is to up your protein intake and to incorporate some weight bearing exercise Aim for a moderate caloric intake so that you are not losing weight too quickly Yes you lose weight more slowly, but it is easier to keep the weight lost off Sarah provided more examples of where people will fall within the ranges based on certain attributes and medical conditions We have within these ranges people who will do better at the low end or at the high end, and there are so many different situations that will determine where you fall We probably are supposed to have seasonal variability as well Sarah recommends playing within these ranges If we are going to take a micronutrient approach and aim to get enough fiber (which is really critical) and enough protein and balance the plant versus animal food so that we achieve micronutrient sufficiency, it almost forces you into those ideal ranges It is incredibly challenging to get enough fiber and not end up with about 40% of your calories from carbohydrates Our dense fiber foods, like 3.5 cups sweet potatoes, has 25 grams of fiber Which would be the USDA fiber allowance for a woman Sarah noted that this probably half of what we actually need This is not a ridiculous amount of sweet potato to eat throughout the whole day, which will give you 150 grams of carbohydrates You can get the same amount of fiber from 24 cups of spinach Which would give you 50 grams of carbohydrates Dense sources of fiber are going to work best for most of us In order to get enough fiber, it is really tough to do without your total carbohydrates ending in the 200 to 300-gram range From a fiber intake perspective, getting enough vegetable matter to get our fiber intake up to where it is supposed to be, that automatically puts us in the higher carbohydrate range If you think about your plate being 3/4 vegetables and using some fat to make things tasty, adding some nuts and seeds, and having quality meats; it is almost impossible to not end up in those balanced macronutrient ranges when you start thinking about micronutrients This is why you need balanced macros You cannot get the micronutrients you need once you start skewing your macronutrients into these extremes You are going to miss out on something There are micronutrients packaged up with our macronutrients that are really important Part of aiming for balanced macronutrients and having a food quality criteria for choosing foods is achieving micronutrient sufficiency Stacy is shocked that it came back around to micronutrients It makes sense that athletes, for example, are turning to products that are targeted to increasing whatever macro they are focused on and not necessarily the micros associated with it Stacy loves the way Sarah framed her explanation That if you think for a minute of just the basic necessity of fiber and the micronutrients you need, and then from there consider the macro piece, you will be in the right headspace It is a struggle overall to achieve balance because there are so many factors that go into it However, when we consider the goal and where we are coming from, we are able to make decisions based on long-term health goals One of the things that Sarah wants to emphasize is that this is a learning curve Sarah will do a 3-day food diary once a quarter She uses the Cronometer app With this data, she is checking in on her fiber, protein, and her micronutrients She lets fat and carbs land where they may because they are going to land in healthy zones if she is getting enough fiber and enough protein Sarah thinks that for most people fiber is where people are most challenged when getting their macronutrients in balance Protein is typically second It takes a few days, maybe a week, of measuring foods and looking at databases for nutrition information to get a sense for where you are at and where you can fine-tune to hit your numbers Find the foods that fill in the gaps for you Figure out what your place looks like Then you can wean off the measuring and logging, and simply execute what you found out about your ideal plate makeup And from there you can check in every once in a while to make sure you are on track Food journaling is a phenomenal tool for weight loss Awareness around what you are eating is really important for the behavioral modification of weight loss However, Stacy noted that for those with a history of disordered eating it can be problematic Be mindful of this when identifying how best to check your macro and micro levels Stacy shared her experience with being respectful of the emotional pieces associated with tracking It doesn't need to be an overwhelming experience if we come from the perspective of what is my intent, what am I trying to achieve, is this food choice the best for me in this moment With that, Stacy suggests eating Wild Zora bars to increase your vegetable intake Sarah loves Wild Zora and it has been a staple in her house for years Zora has a very food quality focus in all of her products She is very micronutrient focused It is both packed with vegetables and high-quality protein The diversity of products that they offer is amazing, especially as a convenience food Wild Zora is a woman-owned, family-run company from Northern Colorado that manufactures meat and veggie bars, dehydrated backpacking meals, soups, and instant teas They have many AIP options available The products are great for packing and leaving in the car Remember, you can go to this site to get free shipping and up to 30% off their products (54:47) Closing Thoughts Thank you to Wild Zora for sponsoring this show! As Sarah noted, health is really about macronutrients and micronutrients Thank you, listeners, for tuning in - Stacy and Sarah will be back next week! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices