The Art of Product

Ben and Derrick welcome Rob Fitzpatrick, author of The Mom Test: How to talk to customers and learn if your business is a good idea when everyone is lying to you. It’s not your typical non-fiction business book, but short and straight to the point. It should be a mandatory prerequisite for anyone embarking on the startup journey. Derrick’s Level Retrospective describes how Rob’s book had a major impact on his most recent startup experience. People want to be supportive, so it’s difficult to get unbiased feedback during customer validation. Derrick already knew this to be correct, but underestimated the degree to which everyone lies. So, he felt betrayed by early validation efforts proved to be radically different from reality. Today’s Topics Include: Don’t ask anyone if your business is a good idea because everyone is biased Burden of truth should be put on yourself, not your customers Entrepreneur’s Superpower: Getting support before it’s deserved because passion pollutes feedback Founder Fit: Does your business idea merge with your product and lifestyle goals? Founder Centric: Cashflow-positive education and training agency for startups Product-Market Fit: People share their problems via a proposed solution; when customers send feature requests, get to root of the problem Statistical significance of sample size is a trap; reach point of diminishing returns to move forward with product, and focus on number of/hours spent on conversations Entrepreneurs and customers think every problem matters, but they don’t What to do next to pivot in the right direction and niche down Links and resources: The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick Rob Fitzpatrick The Workshop Survival by Rob Fitzpatrick Founder Centric Steve Blank Paul Graham Skype Slack Hacker News Superhuman Product-Market Fit Survey Songkick Spin Selling by Neil Rackham Drip Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Level Retrospective Level Manifesto Tuple

Ben announced a medium-sized step forward for Tuple. A bug where the video portion would freeze at the start of or during a call was replicated and resolved. It was a double bonus: Fixed the bug and made the Tuple app faster. Derrick’s contemplative mode continued as he tried to figure out the future of Level. He retreated to think and disconnect. He sought clarity on what to do and is confident that he has made the best decision. Today’s Topics Include: Dynamic Duos: Problem solving doesn’t require understanding of programming language Fear not! Tuple continues to consistently update dependencies and perform QA Tuple’s dashboard of latest version of call quality rating is highest so far Story of Level: How it started; goals, processes, and mistakes made; and what resources are available or needed to make it sustainable and successful Derrick’s Decision: Not the right path for him to be on, so it’s the end of the road for Level Go big, or stay small? Launch something valuable that you can charge your market for, then you can expand from there Product Market Founder Fit: Is the business the way you want to shape your life? Do No Disturb Derrick: Convinced to cultivate a capability to slow down and carry on Links and resources: Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Tuple Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide Drip Ruby Zoom WebRTC Company of One by Paul Jarvis Rob Walling’s Stairstep Approach to Bootstrapping Superhuman Product Market Fit Survey

Recently, Ben felt gloriously empty and described how nice it was to have nothing going on. In his stomach, that is. He successfully finished a 48-hour fast. It was difficult, but pleasurable. Now, he’s back to craving calories, eating, and work! Derrick had a challenging week with feelings of uncertainty. He invited more people to try Level, but got similar results. He fears that people may not progress with the product. Will people actually make the jump to Level? Today’s Topics Include: April showered Ben with 66 sign ups of paid trials for Tuple Magic Number is 3: Multiple developers mean Tuple will soon ship multiway calls feature Derrick’s going back to customer development roots to proactively learn and listen Tactical errors with validation to confirm assumptions about how to solve Slack problem Derrick’s envyable or dire position? Worst-case scenario and what’s next Startups fail, the struggle is real, and the pivot is time honored for a reason Links and resources: Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Derrick’s Level Manifesto Tuple The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick

Ben boldly admitted to doing a “weird” thing. He started listening to “us.” Not necessarily for quality control, but to spark his memory about topics Derrick and he talked about in previous AoP episodes. As a result, Ben’s become addicted to listening to people building companies podcasts. Unfortunately, there’s just not that many of them. Derrick also admitted to listening regularly to previous AoP episodes. But more so during the early days of the podcast, when he was apprehensive about his own ability on the microphone and wanted to find ways to improve. Today’s Topics Include: Cool Podcast with Cold Open: Hit “Play” and start talking Autophagy: Putting a twist-tie on snack cabinet sucks, but benefits your body and brain Tuple’s most requested feature: Multi-way calls Successful Meta-habit: Surveys serve as way to get feedback on product features Potential strategies for setting a launch date for Tuple Art of Building a Product and Company: Word-of-mouth, referrals, affiliate programs Derrick’s Level Launch: Warm email reminder to whet people’s appetite Mini-funnel Metrics for Level Launch: 500 given access to Level via email 70% open rate for email 182 created user account 41 created a team Onboarding Process for Level: Step 1: Create user account Step 2: Demo account is activated Fork in the Road: Optimize each phase and equip people to make it through funnel to get feedback on Level Derrick’s Top 2 Priorities for Level: Documentation and more manual outreach Derrick gets Ben “Pricing” Orenstein’s advice on who needs Level the most Derrick’s Plan for Level: Repeat, refine, and resend Links and resources: Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Tuple The Art of Product: Episode 78 - Ultraworking with Sebastian Marshall Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide Derrick’s Level Manifesto Drip 113: Justin Jackson - Growing Transistor to $10,000/month GitHub Clearbit

Ben had another good week. He signed up 25 new trials and about five conversions for Tuple. Are you one of the 500 chosen by Derrick to get access to Level? Be sure to check your Inbox on Monday for an email from him to find out. Also, Ben and Derrick welcome Adam Wathan as a co-host for this episode. Adam’s working on getting release 1.0 of Tailwind out the door with awesome documentation. Today’s Topics Include: Happiness vs. Harassment: Tuple’s paid trial process Will people pay for Level? Get free feedback first or make them pay upfront? Demo Option: Click around, view dummy posts to get sense of how Level works Refactoring UI: Could it be a perennial seller? How much should you share about your startup in your tweets? Focus on being best option; don’t brag about your success Trying to sell a theme via Tailwind; adding vs. creating new products Holy Grail of Software Business: Rob Walling’s stairstep approach to recurring revenue Growth rate required to stay alive? Keep product relevant to what market wants SaaS is definitely not all roses! Super Fast Email Services/Features: Snippets, Superhuman, Help Scout, and Shortcuts Links and resources: Adam Wathan on Twitter Refactoring UI by Adam Wathan and Steve Schoger Steve Schoger Stripe Jason Cohen - Designing the Ideal Bootstrapped Business Perennial Seller: The Art of Making and Marketing Work that Lasts MicroConf Tailwind CSS Bootstrap Justin Jackson Playing with Tailwind CSS Justin Jackson’s MegaMaker Club Patreon Rob Walling’s Stairstep Approach to Bootstrapping Upcase by Thoughtbot Paul Jarvis Heroku Dynos Ruby on Rails Elixir Superhuman Help Scout Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Tuple

The hype about Tuple is real! Ben’s been busy adding a bunch of new customers. He’s selling and delivering the dream. Derrick is back after mentally struggling in the midst of moving, which meant a week of zero productivity on Level. Now, he’s in a better place, mentally and literally. Today’s Topics Include: Ludicrous Mode: Full-resolution, uncompressed video stream option added to Tuple Tuple’s lack of scaling challenges due to peer-to-peer connections Tuple’s conversion rate for email list Ben’s “I’m bad at sales” email message and demo video Things to do and features to add in the future for Tuple Tuple achieves semi-milestone of customer renewals Ben’s fear of public availability to post Tuple’s pricing Bandwidth forces AoP podcast back to one episode per week Derrick ships fun and addictive emoji reactions feature in Level Inviting more people to increase Level’s sample size and address skepticism Links and resources: Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Tuple Heroku Dynos Spaceballs Adam Wathan on Twitter Ruby on Rails Action Cable Server Technical Debt - Our Approach to Building Cool Tech Profitably Steve Schoger - Refactoring UI: Tuple    Drip Soapbox from Wistia Superhuman Jason Fried

Who’s the mystery voice that only gets better as you listen to this episode? Actually, you’re probably already familiar with the work of the man behind the microphone. Derrick is busy moving to a new home, so Ben’s co-host is Brian Casel of BootstrappedWeb, ProcessKit, Audience Ops, and Sunrise KPI. Today’s Topics Include: Ben and Brian just got back from MicroConf; it’s an annual gathering of “all our people” Some talks were among their favorites, but others were mediocre and missed the mark Brian’s goal was to meet 5-10 new people doing interesting things, and reconnect and catch up with others he’s known for years Brian is an Art of Product (AoP) podcast listener and wants Ben and Derrick to not hold back, dig in, challenge each other, and ask more questions Are more people listening to Ben and Derrick’s podcast? Fireside metrics reveal that a lot of Tuple or Level customers come from listening to it More bootstrappers need to start a podcast and find friends to share ups and downs What happened when Ben pushed Brian to learn how to code? ProcessKit - best thing Brian’s built on the Web Phenomenon of how programmers love complexity ProcessKit pricing and customer research; Ben’s advice to get people to buy/use it Tuple Update: App is great; Ben’s been emailing list, and people are buying it Links and resources: Brian Casel BootstrappedWeb Podcast ProcessKit Brian Casel on Product Hunt Audience Ops Ops Calendar Big Snow Tiny Conf Sunrise KPI Art of Product Podcast Episode 58 with Brian Casel: Evolving Roles as a Startup Founder MicroConf MicroConf Recap Chris Savage: How an Offer to Sell Wistia Inspired Us to Take On $17M in Debt Jason Fried: Q+A with Jason Fried Patrick Campbell: Pricing Joanna Wiebe: Money Words: Seven of the words and phrases we use most often in high-converting copy Fireside Transistor Castos Blubrry AJAX JavaScript Tailwind CSS Honeybadger React Ruby on Rails Vue.js Stimulus JavaScript Vanilla JavaScript FollowUp.cc Superhuman Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Tuple Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide

Ben and Derrick are back from MicroConf. There were plenty of solid talks and takeaways to help them think, theorize, and hypothesize about moving forward with their products. Also, Ben presented two Starter Edition sessions: Q & A with Rob Walling and Idea to Validation to Launch: The First 365 Days of Tuple. Today’s Topics Include: Ben stuck to plan of not going to many talks; made connections and socialized Growth-adjacent trend of not buying tickets to conference, but hanging out with others Ben crushed it when MCing Starter Edition; being part of conference at organization level MicroConf’s Unofficial Mantra: Charge more; pricing is powerful lever to pull for ROI, and businesses know they should do it, but don’t; if they do, it’s too small Tuple has stabilized, and it’s time to generate revenue; started emailing list Retro on financial situation; nothing to worry about yet, but not feeling rich Links and resources: MicroConf MicroConf Recap Ben Orenstein at MicroConf Honeybadger Wistia Jason Cohen Hiten Shah Chris Gimmer Ruby on Rails Drip Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Tuple

Derrick and Ben have descended upon Las Vegas for MicroConf and an audience hungry for valuable tips on how to successfully start and grow a business. Ben will have two Starter Edition sessions: Q & A with Rob Walling and Idea to Validation to Launch: The First 365 Days of Tuple. Today’s Topics Include: MicroConf Goals: Connect with people, spend quality time with friends; don’t feel guilty or FOMO about not going to all talks Ben’s seeking a designer to replace super-successful Steve Schoger Optimism to Realism: Derrick’s shift in mindset about Level at 2018 vs. 2019 MicroConf Sharing wisdom and giving advice - all of the fun, and none of the hard work Not knowing what makes someone a good fit for Level; let people vote with their dollars Getting more founders into therapy to help their mental health Derrick’s mentor role for TinySeed: The Startup Accelerator Designed for Bootstrappers Tuple’s theme of recurring and expansion charges, but also one churn so far Links and resources: MicroConf Ben Orenstein at MicroConf Rob Walling Steve Schoger Drip Sam Harris Wistia Soapbox TinySeed Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Tuple

Derrick is still traveling. So, Ben’s co-host for this episode is Honeybadger Co-founder Ben Curtis. Honeybadger offers an application health monitoring tool featuring an easy-to-use platform with exception, uptime, and check-in monitoring. Since its creation about seven years ago, Honeybadger’s three founders - Curtis along with Starr Horne and Joshua Wood - cranked out all the work. However, the company added a marketing person a few months ago and recently hired its first developer. Today’s Topics Include: Honeybadger has kept headcount low to optimize profit-per-employee; eventually needed help with marketing and other tasks Downside of contractors is they’re not committed to being around for very long; wanted someone who was dedicated to making Honeybadger more successful Bringing new people in is risky, but Curtis kind of wishes they would’ve done it sooner Documenting processes is essential to transfer knowledge to new team members and discover opportunities for improvement and automation Setting expectations regarding time; Curtis makes conscious choice to only work 20-30 hours per week in Honeybadger’s relaxed and asynchronous office environment Honeybadger took about three years to achieve a stable infrastructure, where things weren’t regularly blowing up and breaking Moment Honeybadger Made It: Able to offer health insurance and living the dream by getting paid well to do exactly what they want to do and exactly how they want to do it What can you afford to pay yourself when starting a business? Establish schedule and roadmap to set goal to pay yourself regularly, even if amount is meager Honeybadger’s biggest costs are for hosting, health insurance, and salaries; company has grown through word-of-mouth, not paid marketing and advertising Gorilla Marketing: Free marketing and fantastic response rate for Honeybadger’s T-shirt giveaway to get customers’ credit card numbers; Burger Bus was also a success Be authentic to create brand recognition; you’re your target audience - what do you like? Honeybadger’s mission is to give developers the best tools, so they can have a better day; customer service is one of the company’s core guiding principles Links and resources: Honeybadger Starting & Sustaining Podcast Episode with Ben Curtis, Co-founder of Honeybadger Notion Twitch Tropical MBA Podcast MicroConf RailsConf Postmark Printfection Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Tuple