The Art of Product

One of the benefits of having a podcast is being able to interview interesting people. Being a podcast guest is the best gig in the universe. Spew some knowledge, or just ramble. It’s time to celebrate the 100th episode of the Art of Product (AoP) podcast by catching up with previous guests to share updates and what’s next. Thanks for listening! Today’s Topics Include: Julian Shapiro: Running the growth agency, Bell Curve, was not rewarding but stressful; pivoted to Demand Curve to offer training to grow companies and teams Jason Cohen: Busy because of WP Engine’s multiple acquisitions, including buying Flywheel; he describes how acquisition accelerates or de-risks successful strategies Rob Walling: TinySeed continues to thrive and fun to work with ambitious and motivated founders building things; MicroConf moves from Vegas to Minneapolis in April 2020 Paul Jarvis: Re-recording videos and audio for MailChimp course and rebuilding Fathom Rahul Vohra: Superhuman achieved Series B and added employees; working on mental health and wellness by getting a super-sweet and super-dependent puppy Steve Schoger: Recycled redesigned Tuple site at Laracon and now working on Tailwind UI with Adam Wathan Links and resources: AoP Episode 61: Unconventional Growth Tactics with Julian Shapiro Julian Shapiro Demand Curve Bell Curve Y Combinator AoP Episode 69: Sound, Actionable Advice with Jason Cohen  WP Engine Flywheel Jason Cohen - Designing the Ideal Bootstrapped Business SmartBear A Smart Bear Blog AoP Episode 66: TinySeed Updates with Rob Walling  Rob Walling TinySeed Startups for the Rest of Us MicroConf Out of Beta Podcast: The first TinySeed founder retreat  AoP Episode 93: Company of One with Paul Jarvis Paul Jarvis Company of One MailChimp Course Fathom Camtasia AoP Episode 91: Feeling Superhuman with Rahul Vohra Superhuman Headway AoP Episode 70: Refactoring UI: Concept to Launch  Steve Schoger - Refactoring UI: Tuple    Laracon Justin Jackson’s Transistor Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Tuple Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide StaticKit Level Level Retrospective Level Manifesto

There’s no need to ask them who they are, what they do, businesses and products they built because listeners know them through their stories. After a lot of random, but worthwhile conversations, they’re getting good at being podcast co-hosts. How long does it take to listen to all episodes of Ben and Derrick’s Art of Product (AoP) podcast? Who knew it would be binge-worthy? One more down, one to go before they reach Episode 100! Today’s Topics Include: Tuple 1.0: App is available, despite instant self-serve checkout setback Tuple customers are expanding their use, but there’s still room for more users One-time lump sum: Tuple pricing model that makes sense StaticKit Beta: Start small with kernel of a product to keep funnel constrained Marketing Research and Product Risk: StaticKit to stand on its own or grow Drip and Deleted Emails: Save copies to maintain confidence in critical path Negative Churn: Influence users to upgrade pricing for expansion revenue Links and resources: Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Tuple Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide StaticKit Level Level Retrospective Level Manifesto Giant Robots Podcast Steve Schoger Userlist  Adam Wathan on Twitter Tailwind CSS Product Hunt Ray Ozzie WordPress Drip Refactoring Rails

Derrick’s short notice about not co-hosting this episode because of being on a plane, and Ben not knowing or planning what to discuss, who and what’s left? Updates and reports on Tuple and Tailwind. Welcome back Adam Wathan! Today’s Topics Include: Today’s Trend: Advisor/investor/founder journals and reports of accomplishments Serves as a way to stay in touch, build relationships, ask questions, and get feedback Three Tuple Reports Later: Things are still going good Programming meets Business: Gary Bernhardt commits to being future podcast guest Successful Tuple Shipments: Significant use of Webcam feature Pricing Options: Ben expresses concern over free trials or pre-paid plans to capture credit cards and emails Invite-only vs. Public Launch: Continue as is, or open Tuple up to all Tuple Update: Revenue is growing quickly, receiving 70-100 support tickets weekly, and room to add customers Tailwind Update: Adam launched first set of videos for Tailwind CSS course Tailwind Subscription/Price Structure: Yet to be determined Adam’s Prediction: Education and documentation determine open source winner Links and resources: Adam Wathan on Twitter Full Stack Radio Tailwind CSS Refactoring UI by Adam Wathan and Steve Schoger Steve Schoger Tyler Tringas on Twitter Brian Casel Gary Bernhardt on Twitter ExecuteProgram.com David Heinemeier Hansson (DHH) on Twitter Giant Robots Episode 26: Deep into the psyche of Gary Bernhardt Giant Robots Episode 27: Fabulous new mistakes with Joe Ferris Giant Robots Episode 28: Farther, further, faster with David Heinemeier Hansson Node.js React Ruby on Rails Zoom Superhuman Screenhero Slack GitHub Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Tuple Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide StaticKit Level Level Retrospective Level Manifesto

While Ben’s on vacation, Derrick welcomes another podcast host who can commiserate with him about email automation. Jane Portman is a UI/UX expert and consultant who hosts the UI Breakfast Podcast and co-founded Userlist.io. She describes what it takes to create a customer messaging tool. Today’s Topics Include: Product Priorities: Slow, steady, and quality Lifestyle Business: Overall goal is to replace consulting with SaaS recurring revenue Challenges: Limited development time and resources; slow growth rate to adopt mission-critical product To Build, or Not to Build: Avoid feature creep by focusing on what to add or improve Playbook Post: 10 steps to successfully position a product Launch Process: People are waiting for the right time for the right tool for their business Customer Conversations: Pre-product interviews about problem to be solved; followed by product demos to grant access to beta version for feedback Finding Customers: Landing page, updates, stories, sign-ups, mailing list, and more We’re out of Beta! Simple and straight-forward product launch plan and strategy Generic Illustrations: Product design trend that has to end Email Experiences: Educate people on how to ethically use email to serve their business Links and resources: User Onboarding: The Ultimate Guide for SaaS Founders UI Breakfast Podcast Userlist.io UI Breakfast on Twitter Userlist.io on Twitter Behind the Scenes of Our Upcoming Public Launch How We Used April Dunford’s 10-Step Method to Overhaul Positioning at Userlist AoP Episode 91: Feeling Superhuman with Rahul Vohra Product Hunt Hacker News Drip MailChimp Humans of Flat Design on Twitter  Paul Jarvis MicroConf Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Tuple Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide StaticKit Level Level Retrospective Level Manifesto

Is something bugging you? Need to get away from everything? Derrick can’t wait to once again ride rugged waters on Minnesota’s many lakes. Not unlike startups, it isn’t always easy to stay afloat when under pressure. Heeelllloooo! Are you there? Still interested? Ask and you shall receive. Ben shipped a major feature for Tuple. Drumroll please…video support. I’ll Tuple you! Today’s Topics Include: Sensible Deprivation: Some suffering can be good; makes you appreciate things more Get Over It, and Gain Confidence: Design and develop video support prototype Official Launch Date for Tuple: Some time in August; Ben’s still trying to shake the perception he’s charging people for beta product Security Vulnerabilities Happen: Ben’s reaction to recent issues with Zoom and Slack Mistakes Ben Might Make: Free Tuple trial to increase conversion and expansion Derrick’s Building Product: Initial version of StaticKit and form collection component Security ROI: Short-circuiting pushback with strong write-up for SOC 2 and ISO 27001 3+ Tuple team? Someday, Ben wants to hire a part-time designer and developer Links and resources: Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Tuple Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide StaticKit Level Level Retrospective Level Manifesto Outward Bound Zoom Superhuman Slack Adam Watham Steve Schoger Laracon Elm React Jekyll Drip IS0 27001 SOC 2 HackerOne

While Derrick is away, Ben welcomes Don Goodman-Wilson, who was the first hire at Screenhero in 2013. Don shares his version of Screenhero’s incredible journey, its migration to Slack, and Tuple coming to the rescue. Better late than never! Today’s Topics Include: Work Ethic/Culture: Doctorate in philosophy requires logic and dedication Engineering Challenges: Learning low-level C/C++ code in Screenhero product Microsoft Windows and Apple Mac: Harmonizing code bases Web Application Programming: User interface (UI), reliability, latency, quality, and billing Product/Market Fit: Quick growth, adoption, and implementation of Screenhero Pair Programming: Personal and professional sharing and collaboration Second Day at First Expo: Atlassian’s interest, followed by Slack’s acquisition Platform of Choice: Who’s the best partner to work with to achieve Screenhero’s goals? In and Out of the Sandbox: Screenhero’s prone to crashing and uses private APIs Slack destroyed Screenhero: Expectations and compromises created culture clash Heartbreaking, Rational Reality: Removal of remote screen control in Slack calls Maintainerati’s Mission: Understand challenges and offer solutions for maintaining open source software Links and resources: Don Goodman-Wilson  Don Goodman-Wilson on LinkedIn Maintainerati Screenhero Y Combinator Slack The Screenhero Story - The Screenhero Blog Removal of remote screen control in Slack calls Atlassian HipChat WebRTC Redis Python Stripe Ractive.js Ruby-Grape Rack Ruby on Rails Dropbox Google Hangouts Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Maintainerati on Twitter Tuple Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide StaticKit Level Level Retrospective Level Manifesto

Summer is in full swing. Ben spent a fun and productive day talking about work at a Red Sox game. It was an own-your-own business startup moment. Derrick can see clearly now, thanks to SMILE laser eye surgery. But he’s still seeking clarity on whether to make the masses happy, or stick to core concerns to attract specific customers when creating a new product. Today’s Topics Include: Tuple Grows Up: New version of marketing site getting ready to launch Cha Ching: Confirmation of biggest single Tuple invoice sent for payment How much wisdom is there in the crowd? Can you trust it? Remote Control: Tuple customers give up control to use driver/navigator pairing Self-serve Sign-up: Tuple strives for automation, learning, and feedback Time for a Truce: Trash talking, name calling stops for Slack to send customers to Tuple Soon to be released: Derrick’s StaticKit, a modern approach for embedding dynamic forms onto static sites Links and resources: StaticKit Art of Product Podcast Episode 91: Feeling Superhuman with Rahul Vohra Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Tuple Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide Level Level Retrospective Level Manifesto Jekyll Middleman Gatsby Hugo Next React Superhuman Product-Market Fit Survey Drip Steve Schoger Stripe MicroConf Slack Removal of remote screen control in Slack calls Screenhero Netlify Zeit Mailchimp ConvertKit JSON Zapier FormKeep Heroku Ruby on Rails Medium Phoenix

After a QuickTime error eradicated Paul Jarvis’s conversation with Ben and Derrick for an Art of Product episode, he’s back with an update on his recently published book, Company of One. Should Paul strike while the iron is hot? Despite the book’s success and being encouraged to write another one, Paul wants to take a necessary break before proposing a new book idea. Today’s Topics Include: Legally Binding Thumbs-up Emoji: How Paul sold rights for book to be in 13 languages Break between Building: Frustration of figuring things out, replaced with hammock thinking and relaxation Paul’s writing process fills fountain of ideas; ready to do a book on digital privacy Slack Support Group: Help yourself and others Level Failure Leads to Filtering Idea Criteria: Shouldn’t be mission-critical product; require more than a few decision makers; and native apps shouldn’t be a minimum requirement Company of One: Doesn’t necessarily refer to one person, but mindset Balance between technology you know and learning curve for something you don’t Software as a Service (SaaS) Business: Scale up or stay small? Derrick describes Company of One as what he aspires toward, but is open to possibility of co-founders Nothing Lasts Forever: Question growth, not stagnation Seek and scale support, especially when using third-party software Drumroll, Please: Ben announced plans for public launch of Tuple in August 2019 Links and resources: Paul Jarvis Company of One Company of One (Co1) Academy Company of One Podcast Fathom Paul Jarvis on Twitter Paul Jarvis’s WPComplete Plugin Ingenx The Year of Living Biblically by A.J. Jacobs Slack Screenhero Rob Walling Drip Finding My Next Bootstrapped Business Idea DigitalOcean Heroku Ruby on Rails Phoenix Superhuman Hacker News Art of Product Podcast Episode 91: Feeling Superhuman with Rahul Vohra Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Tuple Level Level Retrospective Level Manifesto

The world received amazing news in the form of a great gift: Slack is making a major change in the market—it’s leaving! Ben and Derrick share their thoughts on Slack’s reasonable and rational decision to remove remote control functionality. What happens now? Try Tuple! Just sayin’, actually that’s what Tuple customers are suggesting. Today’s Topics Include: Improve Slack Calls: Reason for removing rarely used remote control feature Kicking marketing machine into gear: Customers’ kind words generated surge in requests for access to Tuple Slack and Screenhero Saga: Complete story of acquisition and pair programming will probably never be told Keep shipping, swinging, and taking shots by increasing luck surface area and learning from previous successes and failures Dear Dvorak user, is it time to switch? Tuple’s shipping international keyboard support Big deals keep coming in for Ben; it’s great to sometimes say, “No” Derrick’s writing cadence continues; flattered by onslaught of positivity from people Product/Founder Fit: Be passionate about product or business before building it Pressure to be Perfect: Don’t sweat the small stuff, just the details Links and resources: Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Just Keep Shipping by Derrick Reimer Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Tuple Tuple’s Pair Programming Guide Level Level Retrospective Slack Removal of remote screen control in Slack calls Screenhero Drip Zoom GitHub The Dvorak Keyboard Adam Watham

Derrick’s feeling “superhuman.” Fortunately, he’s a user and lover of the Superhuman product. Maybe that’s why today’s guest is Rahul Vohra, co-founder and CEO of Superhuman. Today’s Topics Include: Reason for Superhuman still being invite-only is not to increase user demand Sustainable Word-of-Mouth Growth Engine: If you don’t pick the users, you can’t responsibly work on their feedback Purpose of Product and Target Audience: Email is work, and work is email; designed to be meaningful and life changing for high-volume email senders Startup Details: Deliberately think through and consider everything deeply from scratch Don’t turn down money when bootstrapping to find perfect product market/customer fit Knack for knowing what people want, before they know they want something; and helping people realize they want something Without active or spending money on marketing, Superhuman’s waitlist keeps growing Superhuman’s Values: Create delight, be intentional, and remarkable quality Best founders, including Rahul, are unstoppable forces of nature; they leave debris and destruction in their wake Time tracking a day in the life of Rahul: 40% managery; 20% recruiting; 14% fundraising; and 11% product, community engagement, and deep thoughts Superhuman’s pricing is low, but generates high value; big fan of round numbers Business and product metrics: Activation, seat churn, net dollar churn, speed, and reliability rates Objective: Refine entire Superhuman experience to exhibit remarkable levels of quality through three key results - ARR, hiring, and product sentiment Generate roadmap and find balance to maintain lead over market and continue to grow Startup Growth: Pick weekly growth rate; you don’t have to grow faster than you want to Links and resources: Superhuman Rahul Vohra on LinkedIn Rahul Vohra on Twitter Rahul Vohra’s Email Superhuman Product-Market Fit Survey Rahul Vohra on This Week in Startups with Jason McCabe Calacanis Rapportive TechCrunch Product Hunt Hacker News Google Docs GitHub Startup = Growth - Paul Graham Art of Product on Twitter Derrick Reimer Website Derrick Reimer on Twitter Ben Orenstein Website Ben Orenstein on Twitter Level Level Retrospective Level Manifesto Tuple