Science Of Ultra

My guest today is Louise Burke, PhD Dr. Burke is Head of Discipline in Sports Nutrition for the Australian Institute of Sport. She is also Chair in Sports Nutrition, Mary MacKillop Institute for Health Research, Australian Catholic University. She served as Team dietitian for the Australian Olympic team for the past 5 Olympics ( specifically in: 1996, 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012). Her long list of peer-reviewed publications have been cited nearly 4,000 times. She is the author of the books Practical Sports Nutrition and Clinical Sports Nutrition. She is one of the top sports nutrition experts on the planet and she is a world leading expert on today’s topic of fat adaptation in endurance sport training and performance.   How much hype and hyperbole have you heard on the topic of fat adaptation in endurance performance? How often have you wanted the rigorous answers to specific questions on whether the science truly bears out this approach? Within the ultra marathon community, the idea of adapting substrate sources to prefer fat is a very popular topic. The idea is that a higher percentage use of fat will spare glycogen and thereby improve performance in an endurance event. Basically, the intent is to delay running out of internal stores of carbohydrate because it may be challenging to ingest and absorb carbohydrates at a rate that can keep up with use in an ultra marathon.   Today, Dr. Burke helps us understand the history of this topic and cuts straight to the unbiased exploration of the currently available data. Note that this idea has been around for a long time and it’s current popularity is a renaissance of previous waves of enthusiasm. What’s the real skinny on fat adaptation? This episode covers it all, including best practice guidelines for your top performance.   Our wrap-up action items today are the answers to: What are the most common mistakes Dr. Burke sees ultra endurance athletes making with their overall nutrition? And, what should you be doing? What would she say to an ultra endurance athlete interested in training and performing at their best today, regarding fat adapting diets?

My guest today is Michael Joyner, MD. He would need no introduction in the field of exercise physiology. Dr. Joyner is an integrative physiologist, scientist, and evidence-based Anesthesiologist at the Mayo Clinic. His specific areas of expertise include autonomic control of circulation, muscle and skin blood flow, exercise, oxygen transport and metabolic regulation in humans. Additionally, much of his lab’s work in these areas includes the study of aging. This work has been continuously funded by the NIH since the early 1990s. The list of his awards and honors is lengthy; suffice it to say that he has received many of the highest awards in the fields of physiology, medicine, and exercise. Most scientists would feel they had a worthy career with 2 or 3 seminal papers on a subject. My guest today has a list of seminal publications longer than many scientists complete lists. Dr. Joyner published over 350 scientific papers, and many books and book chapters; with many thousands of citations. Simply put, Dr. Joyner is one of the most influential figures in modern exercise science, from molecules & mechanisms to health advocacy. He is also an avid runner.   Later in the interview, you get a glimpse into his knowledge base in the history of running and runners. He rattles off runners and other elite athletes, their ages, and times of performance over many decades. This breadth and depth of knowledge allows him to bring to you amazing insights and many thoughtful ideas….including a haiku!   You can connect with Dr. Joyner at: His website on Human Limits of Performance Twitter: @DrMJoyner His clinical profile at the Mayo Clinic   Dr. Joyner answers many questions, including:   What are the definition(s) of fatigue? How does ‘fatigue’ differ from ‘tired’ and where do they overlap physiologically. What are the causes of fatigue in extreme cases or high intensity: occlusion of blood flow, max sprint, constant effort at ~maximal lactate steady state (fatigue in about an hour or two)? When we talk about VO2max, we generally consider the cardiovascular system - delivery of oxygen-rich blood - as the major limiting factor based on the knowledge that isolated muscle (like in single leg lifts) can consume more oxygen per 100 grams than that same tissue does at whole body VO2max. Is there a role of the cardiovascular system in exhaustion if we maintain fluid and electrolyte homeostasis? Muscle micro-trauma is likely to be a major cause of fatigue in ultras. First, what exactly is the muscle trauma and damage that is occurring during ultra marathons? Second, is this likely to be a major source of fatigue? What is the physiological basis of cardiac drift and does it have a role in fatigue or exhaustion? Fatigue is very complicated when we consider running ultra marathons. What can we say are likely contributors? Are there any factors that might be contributors in higher intensity effort that are not likely to contribute to fatigue in an ultra marathon? What do we know about aging an endurance performance relevant to fatigue? In longer events, we are likely to become relatively depleted of stored glycogen before the end of the race. If our event lasts hours…perhaps many hours…longer, and we can consume and absorb 60-90 g of carbohydrates per hour - will substrate availability contribute to fatigue even if we slow down enough to match energy intake with utilization? In other words, is there anything about being in the depleted state for a long period of time (muscle cells contracting with little internal carbohydrate) that shifts efficiency so as to contribute to fatigue? What do we know about the nature of systemic feedback signals to the brain that may contribute to fatigue/exhaustion in ultras? What do we know about the brain and motivational fatigue in events that require moderate effort for many hours, over night, and some times even multi-day? What role does sleep deprivation play in fatigue/exhaustion?   We develop a list of the expected common or primary predicted sources of fatigue/exhaustion in ultra events.   We wrap up with two action questions. What are the most common misunderstandings for misconceptions about fatigue and exhaustion in ultra endurance performance? What are the 3-4 most important actions we can take to stave off fatigue or exhaustion in an ultra endurance event (what can we do about the most common causes)?

My guest today is Jennifer Pharr Davis. She is an author, speaker, and a National Geographic Adventurer of the Year. Jennifer is among the most well known of American long distance hikers. She holds the record for the women’s FKT for a thru-hike of the Appalachian trail; a record which was the overall outright record for several years and fell by only 3 hrs 12 minutes in the summer of 2015. She has hiked over 12,000 miles on six different continents, including thru-hikes on the Pacific Crest Trail, the Appalachian Trail (three times), the Colorado Trail, the Long Trail in Vermont, the Bibbulmun Track in Australia, and numerous trails in Europe and South America, including the Tour du Mont Blanc, which ultra marathon runners will be familiar with. Connect with Jennifer: 1) On the trail! 2) Facebook: Jennifer Pharr Davis 3) Twitter and Instagram: JenPharrDavis 4) Her company: BlueRidgeHikingCo.com 5) Books: Becoming Odyssa and Called Again: A Story of Love and Triumph She answered many questions on this in depth interview, including: You hiked that AT in 2005, 2008, and the overall record setting year 2011. Your first women’s record of the trail in 2008 was a bit over 57 days; in 2011 you destroyed that record and did the trail in a bit over 46 days. How did that enormous improvement come about? Would you describe the demands of a long-distance thru-hike? Granted that weather can have a big impact, what does a ‘typical’ day look like for a long distance thru hiker? Are you ever running/jogging during a thru-hike or is it all hiking? Tell us about your training for a thru-hike. In your experience, would a 3-4+ week thru-hike be good training for ultra marathons of 100 miles or longer? How do you handle sleep deprivation, or functioning on little sleep, for weeks on end? Tell us about your nutrition for a thru-hike. Tell us about your foot care on a thru-hike. You wrote an article recently for the New York Times for which you explored the topic of sex differences, or lack thereof, in ultra distance events. Tell us about that. Tell us about the psychological demands of a major thru-hike. As an exceptional, experienced, and accomplished ultra-endurance athlete, you have surely had some very dark moments (mentally). Would you take us to back to your darkest experience, tell us that story and how you handled it? We wrapped up with some advice for ultra marathon runners interested in tackling a thru-hike.

My guest today is Patrick Wilson, PhD and RD. He is Assistant Professor of exercise science in the Human Movement Sciences Department at Old Dominion University, in Norfolk, VA, where he also directs the Human Performance Laboratory. He earned a Ph.D. in Kinesiology from the University of Minnesota, where he also received training in the areas of public health and epidemiology. He completed his post-doctoral research training at the Nebraska Athletic Performance Laboratory, specializing in sport nutrition applications for collegiate athletes. And, he is also credentialed as a registered dietitian.    He has authored numerous peer-reviewed publications covering a wide variety of sport nutrition-related topics. He has conducted both laboratory- and field-based research examining the effects of nutrition on endurance exercise performance, including the effects of carbohydrate composition on gastrointestinal distress and performance during prolonged running. His studies have included marathon runners, ultra-endurance runners, and Ironman competitors.   In this episode, we cover all the angles on gastrointestinal (GI) distress as it applies to ultra runners. You learn the major factors that influence GI distress and how to maximize your chances of keeping your GI tract happy.   In the wrap-up, he answers two key questions. 1. What is the biggest mistake athletes make regarding food/drink intake and GI distress? 2. What take-home recommendation would you give for athletes to reduce their chances of developing GI distress in ultra events?

William is a 62 year old British and Scottish international athlete and has set 160 ultra distance running records (from 30 miles on the track to 3100 miles/ 5000 kms on the road) at World, British and Scottish level including age-group records.

Science of Ultra   Episode 13   Carbohydrates for ultra marathon training and racing   My guest today is Asker Jeukendrup, PhD. He is a leading sports nutritionist and exercise physiologist who spent most of his career at the University of Birmingham (UK), where he was a Professor of Exercise Metabolism and Director of Research. He worked the last 4 years for PepsiCo as Global Senior Director of the Gatorade Sports Science Institute Based in Barrington IL (US). He is currently running a consulting business “Mysportscience” and is a visiting professor at Loughborough University. During his career he authored over 200 research papers and book chapters, many of which have helped to change the sports nutrition landscape. He is also the author of 8 books. He is the former editor of the European Journal of Sport Science and Associate editor of the Journal of Sports Sciences. During his career he worked with many elite athletes and teams including several World and Olympic champions. He also practices what he preaches and is competing in Ironman distance triathlons as well as other endurance events. To date he has completed 21 Ironman races including 6 times at the Ironman world Championship in Hawaii.    You can connect with Dr. Jeukendrup: www.mysportscience.com Twitter @jeukendrup   Here are some of the questions Dr. Jeukendrup answers: On a daily basis, what are the carbohydrate needs of an ultra endurance athlete? How many calories can most people digest and absorb per hour when running? What is the fate of consumed carbohydrate relative to stores while exercising? What are the key factors to be considered with respect to the carbohydrates during a long event that may last 24 hrs? Can we predict when relative glycogen depletion might occur in an ultra marathon? What should we consider when we are choosing specific high-carbohydrate foods? What are the key issues to consider relative to the timing of carbohydrate intake prior to, during, and following training workouts? What about timing of carbohydrate consumption for a race event? Is glycemic index of a given food different when running vs at rest? For those who don’t like sweet tastes while exercising or late in races, what are the sources of simple carbs that don’t taste sweet? Are there data, or any good reason to expect, that any aspect of carbohydrate digestion/optimal sources/etc. will change over the course of an ultra marathon? Does carbohydrate physiology change when we go way beyond the better understood distance of marathon?  Is consumption of foods that contain protein, fat, or fiber a concern in light of effects on gastric emptying? When we consume carbohydrate during a run but prior to reaching very low levels of glycogen in muscle and liver, are those calories used more/less/equally to stored muscle glycogen? Can carbohydrate consumption keep us from reaching a muscle and/or liver glycogen depleted state? What is the relation between carbohydrates (type, source, complexity?) and likelihood of GI distress? Tell us about the topic of ‘fat adaptation’ to spare glycogen. From my reading and understanding, there is no good evidence that fat adaptation provides any benefit to endurance performance and it may even impair higher intensity performance (like going uphill) by not ‘sparing’ glycogen but rather by ‘impairing’ glycogen utilization…that apparent sparing may actually be a side effect of impaired utilization. How does caffeine ingestion interact with endogenous and exogenous substrate utilization? GI distress late in a race makes it difficult for some people to retain any calories they might swallow. Tell us about this interesting topic of ‘mouth sensing’ and what it might do for us in that situation.   We wrap up with a couple of focused action items:   1) What are the 2-3 biggest mistakes or misconceptions that you see endurance athletes make regarding carbohydrate and fueling for performance?  2) What advice do you have for runners wanting to dial in their carbohydrate strategies (maximizing calories, best sources for them, etc.) for training and racing?

My guest today is Cody Lind. He's sponsored by Scott and, at age 20, is a rising start in the ultra marathon community. He set five course records and placed second in the U.S. Sky Running Series. We talk about his training, racing, and his perspectives on running. From big weekly mileage to big weekly vertical, Cody trains hard. Learn about his special connection to the Western States 100 mile Endurance Run and what it takes for even a gifted runner to do well in Sky Running in the U.S.

My guest today is Stuart Phillips, Ph.D. He obtained his Ph.D. from the University of Waterloo in Human Physiology. He joined McMaster University in 1999 as an Assistant Professor and is currently a full Professor in the Department of Kinesiology and Medicine. He is also the inaugural Director of the McMaster Centre for Nutrition, Exercise, and Health Research. His research is focused on the impact of nutrition and exercise on human protein turnover, specifically in muscle. He is also interested in how exercise and protein impact body composition, strength, and function in aging. His research is funded by the Canadian Institutes for Health Research, the National Science and Engineering Council of Canada, the US Department of Agriculture, and the Canadian Foundation for Innovation. He has authored more than 190 research papers and several newspaper and magazine articles.   In this episode, we learn:   What are the overall (daily) protein needs of endurance athletes, and will this differ for ultra marathon runners? Does it matter if we get it throughout the day vs mostly at one or two meals? Does our daily average need to be daily or can it average over days?   Is there a protein hunger, per se, that is reliable and will we self regulate sufficiently? What is protein used for in an endurance athlete? How much protein is used for energy /ATP? What do we know, or can we expect about protein needs and use during and following an ultra? Is protein immediately before, during, or immediately after training handled differently? Is it beneficial to consume protein immediately after a training bout? Are there adverse effects of excess protein? Are all proteins equal?   And, as always, we what up with an advice question:   What advice might he give to an ultra marathon runner concerned with their protein intake?

Bruce Gladden, a Professor at Auburn University and a renowned expert on lactate metabolism, dives deep into the complex world of lactate and lactic acid in exercise. He debunks myths about lactic acid causing muscle soreness and fatigue, revealing that soreness stems from micro damage and not from lactate itself. Gladden explains the significance of lactate as a fuel source and clarifies the importance of understanding lactate thresholds for enhancing endurance performance, particularly for ultramarathon training.

My guest today is Luke Nelson. This episode was recorded on location at the Pocatello Running Co. in Pocatello, Idaho, USA. Luke is the race director for the Scout Mountain Ultra Trail race in Pocatello (held in early June each year). He is a Physician Assistant with a full time job. He is the 2012 US Ski Mountaineering Champion. He won El Vaquero Loco seven years in a row and he is a winner of the Big Horn 100. He’s an Ambassador for La Sportive, Patagonia, and Ultraspire. He’s sponsored by First Endurance and Smith.   Luke tells us all about his training, his experiences over the past year, his approach and experience to the mental side of our sport, and what 2016 has in store. He is a phenomenal athlete and an exceptionally kind and generous person, committed to promoting and preserving wild places. You’re going to love this episode.