

Ministry Deep Dive
Travis Michael Fleming
Ministry Deep Dive is a podcast from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics. Each episode goes beneath the surface of ministry to explore the challenges, opportunities, and practices shaping today’s leaders. From discipleship and cultural engagement to spiritual formation and public theology, we wrestle with the big questions and everyday realities pastors, missionaries, and Christian leaders face.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Dec 1, 2023 • 45min
#217 | Hope for American Evangelicals with Matthew Bennett, Pt. 1
How do we reach our crazy post-everything world today? Is there anyone we can turn to? Is there a person who can give us clarity? Is there a different perspective that we have to consider? Travis welcomes professor and former missionary, Matthew Bennett, to the show to discuss his book, Hope for American Evangelicals. Using Lesslie Newbigin as a guide, Matthew takes a missionary perspective to help us look at the American evangelical house and what needs to be done to remodel it by removing the rot and enhancing the good. Travis and Matthew discuss evangelicalism, missions, contextualization, multi-ethnic ministry, sexual ethics and so much more. It's a conversation to help you find the connecting points to reach your world with the glorious news of Jesus. Sign up for the Apollos Watered email.Help revitalize the church in this moment! Support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Nov 24, 2023 • 57min
#216 | Makers in a Thinkers World with Amy Howley Pierson
Are you creative? Have you felt your creative gifts weren't desirable or valuable for the gospel and the expansion of God's kingdom? If you have, then this episode is for you! Too often the creatives among us have been relegated to the kids' table of ministry, and in doing so we have lost the ability to tap into the imagination and help people to see who God is. There have been so many creatives that the church has lost simply because there wasn't a value placed upon them. Travis welcomes Amy Howley Pierson to the show to discuss her book, Makers in a Thinker's World: What Brain Science Teaches about the Spiritually Transforming Power of Creativity. Rediscover what it means to be creative, what our brains say about it, and how important it is in our spiritual formation. Learn more about Amy. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help revitalize the church in this moment! Support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Nov 17, 2023 • 50min
#215 | Working from the Inside Out with Jeff Haanen, Pt. 2
Your work matters. God cares a great deal of what you do in the 9 to 5. Whether you are working as a mechanic in a garage, a C-suite executive, or a homemaker, God cares about your work. Listen in as Travis continues his discussion with Jeff Haanen on his book, Working from the Inside Out (IVP, 2023). Jeff is a writer, entrepreneur, and founder of the Denver Institute. It's a conversation about how we follow God in our workplace, how transformation takes place, and how we can walk with God in the space where we spend most of our lives. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: The essence of every missionary encounter is fundamentally rooted in one's personal identity. Our growth in wisdom necessitates an understanding of both God and oneself, as emphasized by Calvin. Transformation occurs not merely through intention but through engaging in consistent spiritual practices. In the complexity of contemporary culture, discerning our environment is crucial for effective Christian witness. The journey of self-discovery is continuous; I remain committed to confronting my past and internal struggles. To truly engage with culture, one must be formed from within, allowing the internal to influence the external actions.

Nov 10, 2023 • 48min
#214 | Working from the Inside Out with Jeff Haanen, Pt. 1
Does your work matter to God? What does that look like? How do we glorify God in the 9 to 5? How much does Sunday influence our Monday? Travis welcomes Jeff Haanen to the show to discuss his book, Working from the Inside Out (IVP, 2023). Jeff is a writer, entrepreneur, and founder of the Denver Institute. It's a conversation about how we follow God in our workplace where we spend most of our lives. It's insightful and it will be transformative for all who seek to do their work for the glory of God. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: The gospel is fundamentally the proclamation of what God has accomplished through Jesus Christ, serving as the ultimate good news for humanity. In our contemporary society, vocation must be understood as our active response to God's call, impacting every facet of our lives, including work and culture. To effectively engage in Christian mission, we must critically analyze the intricacies of daily life and the various contexts in which individuals operate. It is essential for church leaders to comprehend the unique challenges and realities faced by individuals within their respective workplaces. The concept of work is often misconstrued; we must reclaim a robust theology of work that integrates faith into everyday professional practices. Holistic discipleship requires a deep examination of our identity in Christ and how that informs our interactions and behaviors in the secular world.

Nov 4, 2023 • 56min
#213 | How 1776 Made the Post-Christian West with Andrew Wilson
What does 1776 have to do with LGBTQ+? What does it have to do with expressive individualism? What does it have to do with the rise of atheism, agnosticism, and secularism? Plenty. Travis welcomes Andrew Wilson to the show to discuss his book, Remaking the World: How 1776 Created the Post-Christian West. It's a discussion of how we got WEIRDER: Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, Democratic, Ex-Christian, and Romantic. Travis and Andrew discuss how the post-Christian West came to be, what it means for us now, and how we can live effectively. Andrew Wilson (PhD, King’s College London) is the teaching pastor at King’s Church London and a columnist for Christianity Today. He’s the author of several books, including Remaking the World, Incomparable, God of All Things, and Echoes of Exodus. You can follow him on Twitter.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Oct 23, 2023 • 1h 31min
#212 | C.S. Lewis in America with Mark Noll
Why do so many Christians and evangelicals in particular love C.S. Lewis so much? What is it about him that transcends borders of culture and denominational and theological tribes? Today's guest is historian Mark Noll. Mark and Travis talk about C.S. Lewis and his reception by Americans in the early to mid part of the 20th century. Unlike any author before or since, Lewis tapped into the imagination with the truth that people could grab a hold of and understand. Join Travis and Mark as they sift through Lewis' reception by Catholics, Protestants, and the mainstream media. It's a conversation that will stimulate your faith and appreciate God working through him. Mark is one of the leading church historians in the English-speaking world. Recently retired as the Francis A. McAnaney Professor of History at the University of Notre Dame and before that, he served as Professor of History and Theological Studies at Wheaton College. He taught courses on American religious and intellectual history, the Reformation, world Christianity, and Canadian history. Dr. Noll has written and edited numerous books, most recently including Evangelicals: Who They Have Been, Are Now, and Could Be (with George Marsden and David Bebbington, Eerdmans, 2019), In the Beginning Was the Word: The Bible in American Public Life (OUP, 2015), From Every Tribe and Nation: A Historian’s Discovery of the Global Christian Story (Baker Academic, 2014), Jesus Christ and the Life of the Mind (Eerdmans, 2011), and Clouds of Witnesses: Christian Voices from Africa and Asia (co-written with Carolyn Nystrom, IVP, 2011). He has also served on the editorial boards for Books & Culture and Christian History and as co-editor of the Library of Religious Biography for Wm. B. Eerdmans. In 2006 he received the National Endowment for the Humanities medal at the White House. Dr. Noll currently lives in Wheaton, Illinois, with his wife, Maggie.Check out Mark's books.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Sep 22, 2023 • 57min
#211 | Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for American Evangelicalism | Russell Moore
What happens if we co-opt political power for godly means? Or what if we use evil people to do good things? What if we put people in political power whose character is awful? Is that good or bad? Is it so cut and dry? Of course, there have always been evil people in political office, but the issue is not whether there are low-character people in political office, the issue is calling Christians to embrace evil people, glancing over moral issues, in order to get what they believe to be righteous results. In other words, does the end justify the means? What's at stake in all of this? Is it possible that we can win some big battles politically, but lose a greater war for the faith and its credibility? What is really going on in American evangelicalism?Joining Travis on today's show is Dr. Russell Moore, the editor-in-chief of Christianity Today to discuss his new book, "Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America." Travis and Russell discuss the status of evangelicalism in America. Is it really representative of the upside-down kingdom that Jesus is talking about? Or is it a type of Christian atheism or even, dare we say a form of Christian paganism? What does it mean to be patriotic in the midst of this? Is it possible to be patriotic and not a Christian nationalist? What is wrong with Christian nationalism anyway? These are just some of the questions they discuss on today's show as Russell guides us into the landmines of today's American evangelical landscape, helping us to see where the minefields are, but also where there is safe ground as we seek to be biblical faithful Christians, fulling the mission God has for us in this unique cultural moment. Conversations like this are meant to help encourage and equip you in your mission encounter with Western culture. Our Western culture has many great things in it, but also some unique underlying idolatries that many who are within a Western culture often miss. Dr. Moore helps us to see some of these idolatries and how many within American evangelicalism are not living out biblical Christianity, but rather destructive idolatries that are toxic to biblical faith. It's a fascinating and insightful conversation and one that will unmask idolatries you may have in order that you may forsake them and live out of the truth of the Gospel as you go about your missionary encounter with Western culture. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Sep 19, 2023 • 1h 13min
#210 | Living A Spacious Life | Ashley Hales
Do you feel stuck? Are you frustrated that life is not working the way you thought it would? Are you angry with God because others are seemingly finding success and you aren't? Are you frustrated by your limits? What if your limits are not bad things, but good things? Have you ever wondered if your belief that you can do everything is not from God but from the devil? Have you ever wondered if God has given you limits to show something of Himself in your life? Today, we welcome Ashley Hales to the show to discuss her book, A Spacious Life: Trading Hustle and Hurry for the Goodness of Limits. Travis and Ashley discuss the habits of hurry we have cultivated, the need for rest and rhythm, and steps that we can embrace the spacious life God has laid out for us. Learn more about Ashley. Some of the episodes referred to on today's show:#171 | Transfigure Your Imagination, Pt. 1 | Malcolm Guite#172 | Transfigure Your Imagination, Pt. 2 | Malcolm Guite#179 | The Joy Switch, Pt. 1 | Chris Coursey#180 | The Joy Switch, Pt. 2 | Chris Coursey#181 | The Evangelical Imagination, Pt. 1 | Karen Swallow Prior#182 | The Evangelical Imagination, Pt. 2 | Karen Swallow PriorSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

Sep 15, 2023 • 48min
#209 | The Story of God & Idolatry in Western Culture, Pt. 2 | Mike Goheen
Mike Goheen, expert in biblical story and the Kingdom of God, discusses the modern church's cultural irrelevance and idolatry in Western culture. He explores the impact of Christianity on Western culture, the challenges of countering consumerism, and the irrelevance of the church. The podcast also includes recommendations on Newbigin's books and the challenges of following Jesus.

6 snips
Sep 12, 2023 • 53min
#208 | The Story of God & Idolatry in Western Culture, Pt. 1 | Mike Goheen
Mike Goheen, an expert on idolatry in Western culture, discusses the presence of idols and false gods in the West. The podcast explores topics such as the reduction of faith to ideas, the influence of the American dream, and the marginalization of Christians. They also delve into various forms of idolatry in American and Canadian churches, including freedom, consumerism, and technology. The conversation highlights the failure of the Western story and invites listeners to embrace the bigger story that God offers.