Those Who Serve The Lord

It's part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Mark Baker. We are talking about becoming a centered-set church. What is that? Most churches are bounded or fuzzy, but its the churches that are centered that see the greatest transformation. How do we know that? Because that's what we did! The question is: are sinners welcome at your church? Yes, we call people to repentance, but when does that happen? Do you require them to behave before they belong? Believe? What's the order? Do they have to look and sound like everybody else before they are accepted? What are the standards? Who is in and who is out? Is there room for a process? What happens when someone sins? What about the person who is in sin and just starting to come to church and wants to learn? And what about the person who is considered an insider but whose personal life is a complete mess? What do we do? What is more important: believing? behaving? belonging? Which should come first? And what does that matter? Our guide in our journey today is Dr. Mark Baker. Mark is the J.B. Toews Chair Professor of Mission and Theology at Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary and the author of Centered-Set Church: Discipleship and Community Without Judgmentalism (Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic, 2021) Mark helps us to examine what he calls three different approaches to church. Borrowing from the missiologist Paul Hiebert, he helps us to see what is considered a "bounded set," "fuzzy set," and a "centered" set approach to church. This is a conversation about where you live in the everyday-its about how we judge and shame others, and what the best approach is to ensure flexibility with the process while honoring the purity of obedience. You can learn more at Centered-Set Church. Get the first part of the conversation: #200 | Does Your Church Allow For People In Process?, Pt. 1 | Mark BakerSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.God continues to grow our ministry, but He calls people like you to help do it! Support the Ministry of Apollos Watered today!

What does it mean to belong to your church? What are the standards? Who is in and who is out? Is there room for a process? What happens when someone sins? What about the person who is in sin and just starting to come to church and wants to learn? And what about the person who is considered an insider but whose personal life is a complete mess? What do we do? What is more important: believing? behaving? belonging? Which should come first? And what does that matter? Our guide in our journey today is Dr. Mark Baker. Mark is the J.B. Toews Chair Professor of Mission and Theology at Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary and the author of Centered-Set Church: Discipleship and Community Without Judgmentalism (Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic, 2021) Mark helps us to examine what he calls three different approaches to church. Borrowing from the missiologist Paul Hiebert, he helps us to see what is considered a "bounded set," "fuzzy set," and a "centered" set approach to church. This is a conversation about where you live in the everyday-its about how we judge and shame others, and what the best approach is to ensure flexibility with the process while honoring the purity of obedience. You can learn more at Centered-Set Church. Kevin also mentioned some of his favorite episodes:#105 | Prophetic Voices in Chaotic Times | Trevin Wax#117 | Defending Shame, Pt. 1 | Te-Li Lau#118 | Defending Shame, Pt. 2 | Te-Li Lau#126 | You Are Not Your Own Pt. 1 | Alan Noble#127 | You Are Not Your Own, Pt. 2 | Alan Noble#129 | Relax, You're Only Human, Pt. 1 | Kelly Kapic#131 | Relax, You're Only Human, Pt. 2 | Kelly Kapic#164 | The Thrill of Orthodoxy, Pt. 1 | Trevin Wax#165 | The Thrill of Orthodoxy, Pt. 2 | Trevin WaxTravis referred to some of his:#60 | The Magna Carta of Humanity, Pt. 1 | Os Guinness#61 | The Magna Carta of Humanity, Pt. 2 | Os Guinness#166 | Biblical Critical Theory, Pt. 1 | Christopher Watkin#167 | Biblical Critical Theory, Pt. 2 | Christopher Watkin#171 | Transfigure Your Imagination, Pt. 1 | Malcolm Guite#172 | Transfigure Your Imagination, Pt. 2 | Malcolm GuiteSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.God continues to grow our ministry, but He calls people like you to help do it! Support the Ministry of Apollos Watered today! Takeaways: The concept of a centered-set church shifts the focus from rigid boundaries to a relational orientation toward Jesus, fostering inclusivity. In a centered-set framework, individuals are recognized as belonging based on their movement towards the center, rather than strict adherence to rules. The centered-set model encourages deep transformation and discipleship, as it emphasizes personal growth and relational connection over judgmentalism. By prioritizing relationship with Jesus as the center, churches can cultivate a more compassionate and understanding community, moving beyond superficial metrics of membership.

How do you reduce anxiety? What can you do to relax? What does the Scripture say? What does brain science tell us? What about holy noticing and multitasking to do with it? Plenty!Travis welcomes Charles Stone to the show today. Charles has been a pastor for over 40 years serving as a Lead Pastor, Teaching Pastor, Associate Pastor, and Church planter. He has an engineering degree from Georgia Tech, a Master's of Divinity from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and a Doctorate of Ministry from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. His most recent degree is an executive master's in the neuroscience of leadership from The Neuroleadership Institute. He's completing a post-baccalaureate certificate in Therapeutic Models of Mindfulness from Wilfred Laurier University and has completed a graduate certificate in Mind, Brain, and Teaching from Johns Hopkins University. He's currently enrolled in the Ph.D. program at Columbia Biblical Seminary and is researching stress in pastors.He's been professionally trained in these areas by these organizations:Professional coaching through the Professional Christian Coaching Institute (ACC certified under the International Coaching Federation)Strategic Planning through Ministry Advantage (certified)Vision Clarity through the Church Unique Process with Auxano (certified)Conflict Management through PeacemakersBrain-Based Leadership through the Neuroleadership Institute and the Academy of Brain-Based LeadershipLearn more about Charles and get the book.If you want to learn more about neurotheology through these episodes:If you want to learn more about neurotheology check out our previous conversations:#107 | Jim Wilder, God on the Brain, Pt. 1#108 | Jim Wilder, God on the Brain, Pt. 2#109 | Michel Hendricks-Relational Reformation, Pt. 1#110 | Michel Hendricks-Relational Reformation, Pt. 2#120 | Marcus Warner: Our Walk, Wounds, and Warfare, Pt. 1#121 | Marcus Warner: Our Walk, Wounds, and Warfare, Pt. 2#140 | Jim Wilder, Escaping Enemy Mode, Pt. 1#141 | Jim Wilder, Escaping Enemy Mode, Pt. 2#179 | The Joy Switch, Pt. 1 | Chris Coursey#180 | The Joy Switch, Pt. 2 | Chris Coursey#193 | Escaping Enemy Mode in Marriage & Families | Jim Wilder Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.God continues to grow our ministry, but He calls people like you to help do it! Support the Ministry of Apollos Watered today!

Is Christianity in America on the decline? What does Christianity look like around the world in places like Mongolia, Italy, Oceania and the like? What are the biggest challenges facing the global Church today?Today we welcome Dr. Gina Zurlo for the second part of our conversation about Global Christianity. Dr. Zurlo holds a PhD in History and Hermeneutics from Boston University School of Theology (2017). She is the Co-Director of the Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary (South Hamilton, MA) and Visiting Research Fellow at Boston University’s Institute on Culture, Religion and World Affairs. She is an interdisciplinary scholar, crossing between history, sociology, and World Christianity with a particular interest in women’s experiences of Christianity and church life worldwide.Dr. Zurlo is the co-editor of the World Christian Database (Brill) and associate editor of the World Religion Database (Brill). She is one of the authors of the third edition of the World Christian Encyclopedia (Edinburgh University Press, 2019), which covers the history and current status of Christianity in every country of the world down to the denominational level.Travis and Dr. Zurlo discuss her newest book, Christianity Around the World, which is a popular reference work to introduce readers to the state of Christianity in every nation of the world, complete with colorful maps and graphs. They discuss the state of Christianity in America, how it is shifting, and what it means for us today.If you want to hear the first part of this conversation:#197 | What Does the Future of Christianity Look Like? Pt. 1 | Gina ZurloSome other episodes related to this episode or referred to in this episode:#30 | What God Is Doing In The World, Pt. 1 | Todd M. Johnson #32 | What God Is Doing In The World, Pt. 2 | Todd M. Johnson#69 | The Insanity of God, Pt. 1 | Nik Ripken#70 | The Insanity of God, Pt. 2 | Nik Ripken#71 | The Insanity of God, Pt. 3 | Nik Ripken#103 | Reaching the Nations in Your Neighborhood | David Garrison#161 | Inalienable: How Marginalized Kingdom Voices Can Help Save The American Church | Eric Costanzo, Daniel Yang, & Matthew SoerensSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.God continues to grow our ministry, but He calls people like you to help do it! Support the Ministry of Apollos Watered today!

Is Christianity in America on the decline? What does Christianity look like around the world? How many Christians are there in the world? How do sociologists quantify that? Today on Apollos Watered, we welcome Dr. Gina Zurlo to the show.Dr. Gina A. Zurlo holds a PhD in History and Hermeneutics from Boston University School of Theology (2017). She is the Co-Director of the Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary (South Hamilton, MA) and Visiting Research Fellow at Boston University’s Institute on Culture, Religion and World Affairs. She is an interdisciplinary scholar, crossing between history, sociology, and World Christianity with a particular interest in women’s experiences of Christianity and church life worldwide.Dr. Zurlo is the co-editor of the World Christian Database (Brill) and associate editor of the World Religion Database (Brill). She is one of the authors of the third edition of the World Christian Encyclopedia (Edinburgh University Press, 2019), which covers the history and current status of Christianity in every country of the world down to the denominational level.Travis and Dr. Zurlo discuss her newest book, Christianity Around the World, which is a popular reference work to introduce readers to the state of Christianity in every nation of the world, complete with colorful maps and graphs. They discuss the state of Christianity in America, how it is shifting, and what it means for us today.Some other episodes related to this episode:#30 | What God Is Doing In The World, Pt. 1 | Todd M. Johnson #32 | What God Is Doing In The World, Pt. 2 | Todd M. Johnson#103 | Reaching the Nations in Your Neighborhood | David Garrison#161 | Inalienable: How Marginalized Kingdom Voices Can Help Save The American Church | Eric Costanzo, Daniel Yang, & Matthew SoerensSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.God continues to grow our ministry, but He calls people like you to help do it! Support the Ministry of Apollos Watered today!

How does our modern world obsessed with success jive with the New Testament world guided by the GPS of honor, patronage, kinship, and purity? What did grace really mean in the ancient world? Do we have an accurate understanding of grace the way that the audience of the first century understood it? Does grace come freely or with an obligation? If we are to fulfill the mission of God, we need to know how to apply the Scripture to our lives, and in order to do that effectively, it helps to understand the social world of the New Testament. When we do that, our understanding, appreciation, and application of Scriptural truth is expanded and strengthened, and we are able to have the Scripture speak to us in our everyday lives and where we really live. Our guide in our journey for this second conversation on the subject is New Testament and Greek scholar Dr. David DeSilva. Travis and David discuss his book, Honor, Patronage, Kinship, and Purity: Unlocking the New Testament Culture, a book that has become a major influence in understanding the world of the New Testament and how it relates to many of our modern honor-shame cultures (cancel culture is all about honor and shame). It's a conversation that will enlighten, challenge, and encourage you to go deeper in your understanding and appreciation of the Bible and God's plan for you. If you want to listen to the first part of the conversation:#195 | Are We Living For Biblical Honor Or Worldly Success? Pt. 1 | David DeSilvaMore about honor and shame:#15 | Increase Your Vision of God and the World | Jackson Wu#26 | Misreading Scripture With Individualist Eyes | Randy Richards#34 | Rediscovering Hospitality: A Lesson from Eastern Cultures | Jayson Georges#64 | Finding Hope, Shedding Shame, Pt. 1 | Audrey Frank#65 | Finding Hope, Shedding Shame, Pt. 2 | Audrey Frank#117 | Defending Shame, Pt. 1 | Te-Li Lau#118 | Defending Shame, Pt. 2 | Te-Li LauSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.God continues to grow our ministry, but He calls people like you to help do it! Support the Ministry of Apollos Watered today!

We talk about theology, but we live in a social world of status, slights, and social media. How does the world of the New Testament jive with our modern world? What does it mean to live an honorable life according to our modern culture? Can success be a synonym? Is modern success equivalent to NT honor? Or is it something else? In our world, today, is honor or success going to a great school? Making a lot of money? Having a nice house and car? Where do sacrifice and self-denial fit in? How does that fit with how the Bible talks about honor? What did the social world of the New Testament look like? If we are to fulfill the mission of God, we need to know how to apply the Scripture to our lives, and in order to do that effectively, it helps to understand the social world of the New Testament. When we do that, our understanding, appreciation, and application of Scriptural truth is expanded and strengthened, and we are able to have the Scripture speak to us in our everyday lives and where we really live. Our guide in our journey into the social world of the New Testament is New Testament and Greek scholar Dr. David DeSilva. Travis and David discuss his book, Honor, Patronage, Kinship, and Purity: Unlocking the New Testament Culture, a book that has become a major influence in understanding the world of the New Testament and how it relates to many of our modern honor-shame cultures (cancel culture is all about honor and shame). It's a conversation that will enlighten, challenge, and encourage you to go deeper in your understanding and appreciation of the Bible and God's plan for you. Travis referenced a few episodes on today's show:#117 | Defending Shame, Pt. 1 | Te-Li Lau#118 | Defending Shame, Pt. 2 | Te-Li Lau#107: Jim Wilder, God on the Brain, Pt. 1#108: Jim Wilder, God on the Brain, Pt. 2#150 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 1 | Kevin Vanhoozer#151 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 2 | Kevin Vanhoozer#122 | Does God Still Do Biblical Miracles in The Modern World, Pt. 1 | Craig Keener#123 | Does God Still Do Biblical Miracles in The Modern World, Pt. 2 | Craig KeenerTravis also referenced Kent and Barbara Hughes's book, Liberating the Ministry from the Success Syndrome.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.God continues to grow our ministry, but He calls people like you to help do it! Support the Ministry of Apollos Watered today!

Travis interviews Dr. Scott Sunquist, President of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, on how Christian history helps guide us. They discuss the significance of understanding time, the cross, and glory, and the relevance of Christian history in shaping our understanding of the present.

What do you do when you find yourself in enemy mode in your own family? With your spouse? With your kids? Travis welcomes Jim Wilder back to the show to discuss how to escape enemy mode in marriage, and this time, Travis' wife, Melissa, joins him! It's a conversation that helps equip us to recognize when we go into enemy mode in our marriage or with our kids, and how we can find a way out. This isn't a theoretical conversation, but one rooted in the Fleming household whenever one of its members goes into enemy mode, and we are willing to bet that your house is a lot like theirs! Help Apollos Watered to water the world! Learn more about Life Model Works.If you want to learn more about neurotheology check out our previous conversations: #140: Jim Wilder, Escaping Enemy Mode, Pt. 1#141: Jim Wilder, Escaping Enemy Mode, Pt. 2#107: Jim Wilder, God on the Brain, Pt. 1#108: Jim Wilder, God on the Brain, Pt. 2#109: Michel Hendricks-Relational Reformation, Pt. 1#110: Michel Hendricks-Relational Reformation, Pt. 2#120 Marcus Warner: Our Walk, Wounds, and Warfare, Pt. 1#121 Marcus Warner: Our Walk, Wounds, and Warfare, Pt. 2#179 | The Joy Switch, Pt. 1 | Chris Coursey#180 | The Joy Switch, Pt. 2 | Chris CourseyGet Jim's books: Escaping Enemy Mode, The Other Half of Church, Renovated: God, Dallas Willard, and the Church that Transforms, Joy Starts Here: the transformation zone, Joyful Journey: Listening to Immanuel, The Pandora Problem: Facing Narcissism in Leaders and Ourselves, Rare Leadership, Rare Leadership in the Workplace, and The Solution of Choice.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.God continues to grow our ministry, but He calls people like you to help do it! Support the Ministry of Apollos Watered today!

In this second part of our discussion on discipleship in our multicultural world, we discuss suffering, technology, joy, insider movements, and culturally appropriate teaching methods as we delve into his book Discipling in a Multicultural World (Cross, 2019).Ajith serves as Teaching Director of Youth for Christ in Sri Lanka after being National Director for 35 years. His grassroots ministry has been and is primarily with the urban poor. Learn more about Ajith.Listen to the first part: #191 | How Do We Disciples In A Multicultural World? Pt. 1 | Ajith FernandoTips for those wanting to understand shame:#117 | Defending Shame, Pt. 1 | Te-Li Lau#118 | Defending Shame, Pt. 2 | Te-Li LauTips for sharing the Gospel cross-culturally:#115 | Good News In A Diverse World, Pt. 1 | Jay Moon & Bud Simon#116 | Good News In A Diverse World, Pt. 2 | Jay Moon & Bud SimonLearn more about suffering: #147 | Help and Hope in Your Suffering, Pt. 1 | Mark Talbot#148 | Help and Hope in Your Suffering, Pt. 2 | Mark TalbotAnd other episodes referred to in this episode:#170 | Polycentric Missiology: Everyone to Everywhere | Allen YehSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.God continues to grow our ministry, but He calls people like you to help do it! Support the Ministry of Apollos Watered today! Takeaways: The truth is foundational to our faith, yet the methods of understanding it must adapt to the cultural context in which we find ourselves. The communal aspect of discipleship is paramount; we cannot faithfully follow Christ in isolation. Suffering is often marginalized in Western theology, yet it plays a crucial role in the sanctification process of believers. Prayer serves not only as a means of communication with God but also acts as a therapeutic element for the soul, affirming our identity and security in Christ. Culturally appropriate teaching methods are essential; they allow us to engage with the truth of Scripture in a way that resonates with diverse audiences. The concept of insider movements highlights the complexities of faith expression in multicultural contexts, necessitating a nuanced understanding of how believers navigate their cultural identities.