
Those Who Serve The Lord
Those Who Serve the Lord is a podcast of Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics, dedicated to forming whole lives for God’s whole mission through God’s whole church—what we call missioholism.
Are you tired of all the division, media hype, and shallow answers? Do you long for clarity, renewal, and hope in an increasingly disorienting cultural landscape?
Are you burdened for your church, your family, or your calling, and wondering why the strategies that once brought growth and fruitfulness now seem to fall flat?
Are you yearning for fresh vision, deeper passion, and renewed purpose?
There is a way forward.
In a world fractured by half-truths and half-lived faith, Those Who Serve the Lord calls pastors, leaders, and everyday believers to embody the new humanity of the new creation—mind, heart, body, and soul—for the renewal of all things.
Get ready for theologically rich, culturally grounded conversations that are both profound and practical—never dry, never detached.
Join Travis Michael Fleming—pastor, public theologian, and cultural apologist—as he walks alongside you to help you live out your calling. Because your faith matters, your work is not in vain, and the Lord is with you every step of the way.
Latest episodes

Jun 7, 2024 • 49min
#241 | Cultural Sanctification with Stephen O. Presley, Pt. 2
We are in a time where the cultural topography is shifting. The message hasn't changed, but our position in the culture has. Is there an example we can look to to find inspiration? Stephen O. Presley believes so. Drawing upon the first three centuries of Christianity, Stephen takes us on a journey into the mind of the early church of the first few centuries, showing us that their time is not so different from our own. While they employed a dynamic apologetic, we need to learn from their posture in the face of persecution. It's one of the most engaging and insightful conversations we have ever had on Apollos Watered. He serves as the Senior Fellow for Religion and Public Life at the Center for Religion Culture and Democracy (an initiative of First Liberty Institute) and Associate Professor of Church History at Southern Seminary. Stephen O. Presley earned his undergraduate degree at Baylor University, a Th.M. from Dallas Theological Seminary, and a Ph.D. from the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. He is married to Haley and they have four children and reside in McKinney, TX. Learn more about Stephen and get the book.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!Takeaways: The Christian life has often been perceived as fragmented, lacking integration among its various aspects. A vital component of engaging with contemporary culture involves fostering a local Christian community rooted in trust and love. Addressing the challenges faced in a postmodern world necessitates a holistic approach to Christian living, not solely reliant on political or charity actions. The early church serves as a model for living integrated lives, emphasizing the importance of a shared narrative in the face of cultural opposition. Hope is an essential theological virtue that must permeate our lives, guiding us through challenges and affirming Christ's reign. Cultural sanctification entails a dynamic interplay between indigenizing faith within cultures while maintaining its distinctiveness and relevance.

May 31, 2024 • 51min
#240 | Cultural Sanctification with Stephen O. Presley, Pt. 1
What should be our posture to the quickly changing, chaotic world around us? We all know about the early church in the book of Acts, but what about after that? What was the church's approach to the world around it in the second and third centuries? Can we learn anything from them? Stephen O. Presley believes that our time is not so similar from theirs and we can learn a great deal from how they interacted with the world. He serves as the Senior Fellow for Religion and Public Life at the Center for Religion Culture and Democracy (an initiative of First Liberty Institute) and Associate Professor of Church History at Southern Seminary. Stephen O. Presley earned his undergraduate degree at Baylor University, Th.M. from Dallas Theological Seminary, and Ph.D. from the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. He is married to Haley and they have four children and reside in McKinney, TX. Travis and Stephen talk about his new book, Cultural Sanctification, and how there is really nothing new under the sun. This was one of the best and most invigorating conversations ever had on Apollos Watered and it will help you in your calling to engage the world for Jesus.Learn more about Stephen and get the book.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

May 25, 2024 • 1h 12min
#239 | The State of the Bible: A Deep Dive into America's Faith Crisis with John Plake
John Plake, of the American Bible Society is back to present us with the State of the Bible report for 2024. Stats tell stories, the question is, what story are the stats telling us right now? What is the state of Bible reading in America? What does that tell us? What does it mean for our churches? What does it mean for the different ethnic groups? What about different generations? There is some bad, but there is some hope as John shares with us what the data reveals about where God is working.Informative, challenging, and enriching, this is a conversation that will help you think through what God is doing, what He is calling us to do, and how we can join the opportunities He has created for us. Check out the American Bible Society.Download the State of the Bible Report.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help support the ministry of Apollos Watered and transform your world today!

May 17, 2024 • 44min
#238 | Contextualization in the New Testament with Dean Flemming, Pt. 2
Is the book Acts about the Holy Spirit? The apostles? Spiritual gifts? Or the interaction with cultures? What is the purpose of the church? What does it mean to be a follower of Jesus in a pluralistic society? How do we build a bridge to communicate the gospel and then confront the new culture with the gospel message? Is there a "pure" gospel? What does it mean when every theology is a contextual theology? Join Travis as he continues his discussion with Dean Flemming, as they discuss the need to contextualize the gospel so that our audience understands it, and is challenged by it. Today's guest is Dr. Dean Flemming. Dean Flemming (Ph.D., University of Aberdeen) is an award-winning author, Bible teacher, and seminar speaker. He is Professor Emeritus of New Testament and Mission at MidAmerica Nazarene University and teaches New Testament at the Missional Training Center in Phoenix, AZ. He served for 24 years as a theological educator in the Philippines and Germany and has taught in many global settings.Dean is the author of six books, including Contextualization in the New Testament, which won a Christianity Today book award, and a commentary on Philippians that received the Smith-Wynkoop book award. He writes especially on the connection between the New Testament and mission. An ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene, Dean has pastored churches in Ohio and Japan. He is active in his local church, which includes teaching an adult Bible class.Today, he joins Apollos Watered to discuss his book, Contextualization in the New Testament, and how the early church contextualized the message of Jesus to its audience and we must do the same thing as well. This conversation will help you to identify what contextualization is, why and how it was done in the early church, and how it might help you communicate the Gospel effectively today to those in your world. Learn more about Dean Flemming.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Join God in what He is doing in and through Apollos Watered by becoming one of our patrons today!

May 10, 2024 • 47min
#237 | Contextualization in the New Testament with Dean Flemming, Pt. 1
"Just be biblical!" "Preach the Word!" are phrases we hear from well-meaning Christians who want to see lives transformed. Rarely, however, do we think about exactly how we are supposed to do it. What do we mean by "be biblical"? Does that mean act like those in the first century? And what exactly are we preaching? Christ crucified for sure, but what stories, illustrations, and metaphors do we employ to build a bridge that help our listeners understand what the cross really means? It sounds complicated, but it's actually not as hard as we think. You have probably heard the phrase, "Know your audience!" That's what we are talking about. Communicating to your audience in a way that they understand. As Christians, we call this process, "contextualization." How do we go about communicating the gospel to those from different backgrounds than us that enables us to communicate in a way that they understand without compromising what the Gospel calls for. Today's guest is Dr. Dean Flemming. Dean Flemming (Ph.D., University of Aberdeen) is an award-winning author, Bible teacher, and seminar speaker. He is Professor Emeritus of New Testament and Mission at MidAmerica Nazarene University and teaches New Testament at the Missional Training Center in Phoenix, AZ. He served for 24 years as a theological educator in the Philippines and Germany and has taught in many global settings.Dean is the author of six books, including Contextualization in the New Testament, which won a Christianity Today book award, and a commentary on Philippians that received the Smith-Wynkoop book award. He writes especially on the connection between the New Testament and mission. An ordained minister in the Church of the Nazarene, Dean has pastored churches in Ohio and Japan. He is active in his local church, which includes teaching an adult Bible class.Today, he joins Apollos Watered to discuss his book, Contextualization in the New Testament, and how the early church contextualized the message of Jesus to its audience and we must do the same thing as well. This conversation will help you to identify what contextualization is, why and how it was done in the early church, and how it might help you communicate the Gospel effectively today to those in your world. Learn more about Dean Flemming.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Join God in what He is doing in and through Apollos Watered by becoming one of our patrons today!

May 3, 2024 • 1h 10min
#236 | Can We Actually Be Political Disciples? with Vincent Bacote
"Christians should not be talking about politics!" is what I heard when I was a young Christian. Is that true? How can Christians be engaged in politics in a biblically faithful way? What does it mean to be a political disciple? Should we as Christians stay out of politics? These are questions that we all must wrestle with if we are to have an effective witness in the world. Join Travis and Dr. Vincent Bacote as they discuss what it means to be a political disciple in a polarized world. Dr. Vincent Bacote is a Professor of Theology and the Director of the Center for Applied Christian Ethics at Wheaton College in Wheaton, IL.He is the author of Reckoning with Race and Performing the Good News: In Search of a Better Evangelical Theology (2020), The Political Disciple: A Theology of Public Life (2015), The Spirit in Public Theology: Appropriating the Legacy of Abraham Kuyper (2005), and has contributed to books including On Kuyper (2013), Aliens in the Promised Land (2013), Keep Your Head Up (2012) and Prophetic Evangelicals (2012).He is a regular columnist for Comment Magazine and contributes to other magazines, including Books and Culture, Christianity Today, Think Christian and re:generation quarterly, and journals such as Christian Scholars Review, Urban Mission and the Journal for Christian Theological Research. He is a member of the Evangelical Theological Society and the Society of Christian Ethics.He resides in the Chicago area with his family. Travis and Vincent discuss what it means to be political, why the church needs to have a robust political theology (how God wants us to go about politics that is biblically faithful), common grace, and how our political theology has changed over time, as well as the very purpose of government. Vincent also discusses some other theologians and how they have shaped how we see politics today, names like Abraham Kuyper, John Howard Yoder, and Stanley Hauerwas. While they may be unfamiliar, they have affected how we view and even engage the political process today. Vincent also gives Travis some lessons on Jazz. Learn more about Vincent.Get Vincent's book The Political Disciple. One of the books referred to is Contours of the Kuyperian Tradition by Craig Bartholomew and Bruce Riley Ashford. Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

Apr 26, 2024 • 57min
#235 | What Are Christians For? with Jake Meador, Pt. 2
Travis and Jake continue their conversation discussing his book, "What Are Christians For?" Surprisingly, there is a great deal of confusion as to what the role of Christians should be in society. Is it only to be disciples who make disciples? Is it to glorify God and enjoy Him forever? What about in our public life? What role does our Christian faith play in the political sphere? Our vocation? Does it have any effect on the environment? The answer may surprise you. Jake is the editor-in-chief of Mere Orthodoxy, an online periodical seeking to be a voice of sanity in the midst of craziness. His writing has appeared in First Things, Books & Culture, Christianity Today, Commonweal, Front Porch Republic, National Review and Fare Forward. He is the author of two books, In Search of the Common Good: Christian Fidelity in a Fractured World and What are Christians for?: Life Together at the End of the World. Travis and Jake discuss Lincoln, Nebraska, Tanzania, Wendell Berry, N.T. Wright, Herman Bavinck, Francis Schaeffer, Elisabeth Elliot, and what our role as Christians is to be in the world. Episodes referred to in this episode: Listen to #234 | What Are Christians For? with Jake Meador, Pt. 1Learn more about Jake. Check out Mere Orthodoxy.Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!

Apr 19, 2024 • 57min
#234 | What Are Christians For? with Jake Meador, Pt. 1
What Are Christians For? Is it only to be disciples who make disciples? Is it to glorify God and enjoy Him forever? What about in our public life? What role does our Christian faith play in the political sphere? Our vocation? Does it have any effect on the environment? The answer is an unequivocal, yes! Jake Meador is today's guest on Apollos Watered, discussing his book, What Are Christians For? Jake is the editor-in-chief of Mere Orthodoxy, an online periodical seeking to be a voice of sanity in the midst of craziness. His writing has appeared in First Things, Books & Culture, Christianity Today, Commonweal, Front Porch Republic, National Review and Fare Forward. He is the author of two books, In Search of the Common Good: Christian Fidelity in a Fractured World and What are Christians for?: Life Together at the End of the World. Travis and Jake discuss Lincoln, Nebraska, Tanzania, Wendell Berry, N.T. Wright, Herman Bavinck, Francis Schaeffer, Elisabeth Elliot, and what our role as Christians is to be in the world. Learn more about Jake. Check out Mere Orthodoxy.Sign up for the class, "God's Greatness | Your Mission" here! Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!Takeaways: The complexity of modern life necessitates a robust Christian faith capable of addressing myriad challenges. Many individuals are deconstructing their faith due to a lack of comprehensive teaching on Christian life and purpose. Christians are called not only to make disciples but also to engage meaningfully with cultural and societal issues. The conversation explores the broader implications of what it means to be a Christian in a fragmented world. The book 'What are Christians for?' challenges readers to reevaluate their understanding of Christian identity and mission. Understanding the historical context of Christianity can illuminate contemporary issues and inform a holistic approach to faith.

Apr 12, 2024 • 1h 9min
#233 | Why Evangelical Theology Needs the Global Church with Stephen Pardue
What do you need in your relationship with God? I am sure you can think of many things. One thing that has helped so many Christians and churches is developing a relationship with global Christians, and in doing so, you find your vision of God expands, your relationship with God deepens, and your zeal for ministry exponentially increases. Today's guest, Stephen Pardue, takes us on a journey into the global church and how global theology increases our view of God, helps us to join with what God is already doing, and fulfills His mission with our neighbors who are different from us. Stephen T. Pardue (PhD, Wheaton College) directs the ThM/PhD in theological studies and church history at the Asia Graduate School of Theology and teaches theology at the International Graduate School of Leadership in Manila, Philippines. He is the author of Why Evangelical Theology Needs the Global Church and the coeditor of 10 books, including Majority World Theology and Asian Christian Theology. He and his wife, Teri, have four children and belong to Union Church of Manila.Sign up for the class, "God's Greatness | Your Mission" here! Sign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!A couple of the episodes referenced in today's episode: #150 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 1 | Kevin Vanhoozer#151 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 2 | Kevin Vanhoozer

Apr 5, 2024 • 41min
#232 | Jesus and the Powers: Understanding Our Political Witness with N.T. Wright, Pt. 2
In this second part of our conversation, Travis and Tom discuss our political witness, premillennial dispensationalism, bad theology, Christian nationalism, and how the gospel is bigger than we often realize. While the gospel encapsulates our personal salvation, there is much more involved than just that, but the redemption of all creation. Understanding Tom means understanding not only what he is saying, but what he is responding to. Without that as a backdrop, you miss his point. Listen in and hear not only what he says, but what he is responding to, and as if often the case, it's the abuses in mind. N.T. Wright (Tom) is currently Research Professor Emeritus of New Testament and Early Christianity at St Mary’s College in the University of St Andrews and Senior Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford. He has authored or co-authored over 90 books, and today he joins Apollos Watered to discuss his newest book, "Jesus and the Powers: Christian Political Witness in an Age of Totalitarian Terror and Dysfunctional Democracies."Other episodes referred to in this episode:#150 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 1 | Kevin Vanhoozer#151 | Scriptural Illiteracy & Secular Imagination, Pt. 2 | Kevin Vanhoozer#226 | The Church Between Temple & Mosque | Dan StrangeSign up for the Apollos Watered newsletter.Help water-thirsty souls by partnering with Apollos Watered!Takeaways: N.T. Wright emphasizes that the problem with sin is not merely personal failure, but failing to fulfill God's creational purposes in the world. The concept of being human in a biblical sense includes being agents of God's restorative work in creation, not just focusing on individual salvation. Politics from a theological perspective requires Christians to view political engagement as part of their mission to embody God's kingdom on earth. Wright critiques Western individualism in Christianity, advocating for a corporate understanding of faith and community that reflects our shared identity in Christ. The church's political witness must challenge both external powers and internal inconsistencies, holding leaders accountable to God's standards. Wright argues that genuine political engagement should reflect the values of the kingdom of God, prioritizing love and justice for all people.