

Ministry Deep Dive
Travis Michael Fleming
Ministry Deep Dive is a podcast from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics. Each episode goes beneath the surface of ministry to explore the challenges, opportunities, and practices shaping today’s leaders. From discipleship and cultural engagement to spiritual formation and public theology, we wrestle with the big questions and everyday realities pastors, missionaries, and Christian leaders face.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
We don’t just talk about church—we talk about the people who lead it and the world that surrounds it. Our approach is missioholistic—a framework we’ve developed to help you faithfully minister in a complex, pluralistic culture that enables you to transform the world.
If you want to grow deeper in your faith, sharpen your leadership, and engage culture with the hope of the gospel, join us for thoughtful conversations that will help you water your world.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jun 3, 2025 • 36min
#255 | From the Archives-Revisiting the Wisdom of C.S. Lewis for Imagination in Ministry
Travis Michael Fleming and Jerry Root engage in a conversation on the intersections of C.S. Lewis's literary imagination and the practice of evangelism. Central to their discussion is the assertion that Lewis's imaginative prowess facilitates the understanding of complex theological concepts, making them accessible to a broader audience. Root explores how Lewis employs narrative and metaphor to penetrate the defenses of skepticism, thus allowing individuals to encounter the divine in compelling and transformative ways. They explore the implications of fostering a Christian imagination within contemporary culture, arguing that such creativity can revitalize evangelistic efforts and deepen one's faith. This conversation serves as an invitation to rediscover the richness of Lewis's work and its relevance in our mission to share the love of God amidst a fractured world.Takeaways: Travis Michael Fleming and Jerry Root explore the transformative power of C.S. Lewis' imagination in evangelism during their insightful discussion. Root emphasizes the importance of engaging the imagination to effectively communicate the gospel message in contemporary culture. The conversation highlights how Lewis' works evoke deep longings within individuals, prompting them to seek spiritual fulfillment and truth. Lewis' ability to transcend denominational boundaries allows him to resonate with a diverse audience across various Christian traditions. Travis shares personal anecdotes about evangelism, illustrating how relational connections can facilitate meaningful conversations about faith. Root discusses the necessity of community in theological exploration, asserting that individual understanding flourishes within a collective context. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyThank you for making a difference!

May 20, 2025 • 46min
#254 | Understanding the Modern Mission Field: Insights on Ministry and Discipleship
Join the Blueprint Cohort – Starting May 28!Are you ready to go deeper in your faith and discover how to live out God's Kingdom in today's world?Sign up for the Blueprint Cohort, a 5-week guided journey through Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World. We’ll meet Wednesdays from 12–1 PM ET, starting May 28 via Zoom.🗓 Meeting Dates:May 28June 4June 11June 18June 25Whether you're a pastor, leader, or simply hungry to grow, this cohort is designed to refresh, equip, and encourage you.👉 Sign-Up Link Here!Spots are limited, so sign up today!The dialogue unfolds with a profound exploration of the contemporary ecclesiastical landscape, particularly through the lens of Apollos Watered and Travis Michael Fleming's literary contribution, Blueprint. The discussion is enriched by Dr. Scott Duncan, a senior pastor who has navigated the complexities of ministry in the culturally rich yet challenging environment of Huntington, West Virginia. Through this engaging conversation, we delve into pressing issues facing church leaders today, such as biblical illiteracy, the necessity for apologetics, and the urgent need for culturally responsive discipleship. Dr. Duncan shares his pastoral experiences, highlighting the disconnect between the church and the surrounding community, where a staggering 70% of individuals do not identify with any Christian faith. This reality serves as a backdrop against which the insights from Blueprint become a critical resource for revitalizing church engagement and fostering spiritual growth. The episode emphasizes the importance of equipping leaders to confront these challenges with clarity and conviction, ultimately fostering a church that is both rooted in the Gospel and responsive to the cultural shifts of our time.Takeaways: Travis Michael Fleming and Scott Duncan underscore the significance of engaging with diverse theological perspectives for the enrichment of understanding in ministry. The podcast highlights the pervasive issue of biblical illiteracy within congregations, necessitating a robust approach to teaching the overarching narrative of Scripture. Scott Duncan emphasizes the importance of fostering community and connection among church members to combat spiritual apathy and enhance collective witness. The discussion reveals the challenges faced by church leaders in modern culture, where traditional values often clash with contemporary secular beliefs. Both speakers advocate for the necessity of equipping church leaders through resources such as Travis's book, Blueprint, to navigate the complexities of faith in today's world. Apollos Watered seeks to empower leaders by refreshing their commitment to the gospel as they engage their communities with clarity and conviction. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyThank you for making a difference!

May 13, 2025 • 40min
#253 | Why You Can’t Follow Jesus Alone: Rediscovering the Power of Christian Community
Join the Blueprint Cohort – Starting May 28!Are you ready to go deeper in your faith and discover how to live out God's Kingdom in today's world?Sign up for the Blueprint Cohort, a 5-week guided journey through Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World. We’ll meet Wednesdays from 12–1 PM ET, starting May 28 via Zoom.🗓 Meeting Dates:May 28June 4June 11June 18June 25Whether you're a pastor, leader, or simply hungry to grow, this cohort is designed to refresh, equip, and encourage you.👉 Sign-Up Link Here!Spots are limited, so sign up today!The podcast episode delves into the intricate dynamics of community within a post-Christian context, highlighting the necessity of belonging and the transformative power of genuine fellowship. Irwyn Ince Jr. articulates a profound understanding of community as a divine reality, drawing upon the concept of perichoresis to illustrate the interplay of unity and diversity within the Trinity. This theological foundation suggests that true community is not merely a human construct but a reflection of God's nature. As the discussion unfolds, it becomes evident that the journey towards authentic community demands vulnerability and a willingness to extend oneself beyond familiar boundaries, particularly for those from minority backgrounds. Along with Ince, Jr., the episode features insights from such leaders as Bishop Claude Alexander, Allen Yeh, Stephen O. Presley, O. Alan Noble, N.T. Wright and Michael Goheen emphasize that the church, as a microcosm of the Kingdom of God, must embody diversity and reconciliation. Ince Jr. poignantly raises critical questions regarding the cost of belonging, urging listeners to consider the sacrifices individuals make in pursuit of genuine community and the importance of creating spaces where all voices are heard and valued. The overarching message underscores the call for maturity within the church, advocating for a collective journey that embraces discomfort as a catalyst for growth and unity, ultimately reflecting the beauty of the Gospel in a fractured world.Takeaways: The need for community and belonging is essential for every individual, transcending mere desire to become a fundamental requirement. The concept of perichoresis, representing the divine dance within the Trinity, serves as a foundational principle for understanding authentic community. True community is not merely a human construct but rather a reflection of God's divine nature, emphasizing unity amidst diversity. Engaging with diverse perspectives within the church enriches our understanding of God and enhances our communal worship experience. The journey towards authentic community necessitates maturity, which often entails discomfort and personal growth in faith. To fully embody the Gospel, the church must embrace its missional identity, engaging with the world in love, justice, and faithfulness. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyThank you for making a difference!

May 2, 2025 • 49min
#252 | The Love That Shapes Everything: Rediscovering the Great Commandment
Love God. Love people. Sounds simple, but in many churches today, the Great Commandment has largely been unintentionally overlooked.Today's conversation is about rediscovering the Great Commandment, which calls us to love God with the entirety of our being and to extend that love to our neighbors. But it's not about love in abstract theory, but everyday practice. It's a call to learn the skills of how we love our neighbors (and our enemies).We delve into the profound implications of this commandment and how love must permeate our existence and interactions, shaping our identity as a community of faith. As we navigate the complexities of modern life, it becomes evident that the act of loving others necessitates recognizing their intrinsic value as creations of God, a foundational truth that undergirds our relationships. Throughout our conversation, we grapple with the challenges of maintaining this love amidst distractions and cultural divisions, and we explore the necessity of fostering a communal identity that embodies these principles. By emphasizing love as a transformative force, we aspire to cultivate a community that not only professes but actively practices the essence of the Great Commandment in every facet of life.Takeaways: The Great Commandment emphasizes the necessity of loving God and loving others, which serves as the foundation for all Christian living. True transformation in the church occurs not merely through information but through love that is relational and communal in nature. When we lose our first love, we risk losing our identity as a church, which must be rooted in love and humility. The church should foster a community where joy and love are central, shaping the character of its members and their interactions with the world. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join Travis's Substack, Deep Roots SocietyThank you for making a difference!

Apr 23, 2025 • 54min
#251 | Fixing Our Evangelism: 4 Ways to Reclaim the Great Commission
The primary focus of this podcast episode is the evolving nature of evangelism and discipleship in light of contemporary cultural shifts, as articulated in Travis Michael Fleming's book, "Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World". The discussion emphasizes that traditional methods of evangelism, once effective in a more monocultural context, are now inadequate due to the increasing pluralism brought about by globalization. As we engage with individuals from diverse backgrounds who may not possess a foundational understanding of Christianity, we must reconsider our approach to sharing the gospel. The episode further explores how the Great Commission should be understood as a call to make disciples, fostering a transformative relationship with Christ rather than merely seeking converts. This conversation invites listeners to reflect on their own practices and the necessity of adapting to a changing cultural landscape while remaining rooted in the teachings of Jesus.The episode serves as a profound exploration of the changing landscape of evangelism, spearheaded by Travis Michael Fleming and a cohort of insightful guests. The discourse begins with an acknowledgment of the historical context of evangelism, particularly the reliance on a shared cultural framework that has now eroded due to the effects of globalization and pluralism. Fleming articulately argues that the previous methods of evangelism, which often assumed a common Christian heritage, are increasingly ineffective in a society where individuals may possess little to no familiarity with the Christian faith.As the conversation progresses, the speakers delve into the implications of this cultural shift on the Great Commission, emphasizing that it must be understood not just as a call to make converts but as an imperative to cultivate discipleship. This reflects a broader understanding of the Christian mission—one that prioritizes long-term relational engagement over transient decisions. The speakers highlight that contemporary evangelism must navigate a landscape marked by skepticism and diverse worldviews, necessitating a deeper investment in the lives of individuals and a willingness to engage in meaningful dialogue.Furthermore, the episode underscores the urgency of this conversation against the backdrop of alarming statistics regarding church attendance and spiritual disaffiliation. With millions of individuals distancing themselves from organized religion, Fleming and his guests contend that the church must adapt its approach to evangelism. The discussion culminates in a call to action, urging listeners to embrace a holistic understanding of discipleship that reflects the relational heart of the gospel, thereby transforming the way the church engages with a world in need of hope and connection.Takeaways: The Great Commission encompasses more than mere evangelism; it entails a lifelong journey of discipleship. Cultural shifts necessitate a reevaluation of evangelistic methods to engage diverse worldviews effectively. A relational approach to evangelism fosters deeper connections and understanding of the gospel's implications. The church must prioritize both justification and sanctification in its mission to make true disciples. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis's book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join the Deep Roots Society on Substack—where the watering continues.For Exclusive Bonus Content for Supporters, become a supporter of Apollos Watered to learn more and get access to bonus material like this episode! Thank you for supporting the work of Apollos Watered!

Apr 15, 2025 • 3min
A Holy Week Devotional & Prayer
A holy week devotional and prayer for those going about the Lord's business.

Apr 8, 2025 • 22min
#250 | Navigating the Crisis: A Blueprint for Church Renewal
Travis Michael Fleming embarks on a profound exploration of his book, Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World, addressing the prevailing crisis within evangelicalism. He articulates a sobering assessment of the current state of the church, underlining the alarming statistics that indicate a significant exodus from church attendance, quantified at over 40 million individuals in recent years. Fleming references notable thinkers such as Russell Moore and Trevin Wax, who emphasize that the church is simultaneously experiencing both a crisis and an opportunity for renewal. He postulates that this moment of upheaval necessitates a re-evaluation of traditional practices and beliefs, advocating for a return to foundational principles of faith that transcend mere institutional preservation.Throughout the discussion, Fleming examines the duality of the church's challenges, where leaders grapple with the pressures of maintaining relevance while adhering to scriptural truths. He highlights the urgent need for a reformative approach that acknowledges both the rot within the church and the vibrant expressions of faith emerging from immigrant communities and new congregational forms. The podcast serves not only as an indictment of the current trajectory of evangelicalism but also as a clarion call for a return to spiritual robustness and discipleship, emphasizing that the future of the church hinges upon its ability to engage deeply with Scripture and foster authentic community.As the episode unfolds, Fleming articulates three critical pillars of Kingdom living that will form the basis of the upcoming series: the Great Commandment, the Great Community, and the Great Commission. Each of these components is presented as essential for navigating the complexities of modern faith. He implores listeners to reconsider how these tenets can reshape their lives and churches, ultimately guiding them toward a thriving expression of faith amidst societal turbulence.Takeaways: The podcast addresses the profound crisis currently faced by the church, highlighting that it necessitates not only awareness but a courageous call for reformation and renewal. It is imperative to recognize that many churches are experiencing significant decline, as evidenced by the staggering number of individuals who have distanced themselves from church attendance. The conversation underscores the alarming trend of reduced engagement with Scripture among congregants, indicating a deeper spiritual malnutrition within the church community. The current cultural climate reveals a tug-of-war between institutional preservation and the pursuit of authenticity, with individuals feeling compelled to choose sides. The need for a transformative approach to discipleship and family formation is emphasized, as the future of the church hinges on effectively passing down faith to the next generation. The series aims to explore the foundational pillars of Kingdom Living, encouraging a return to the essence of loving God and one another as a means to rejuvenate the church. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Travis' book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.For Exclusive Bonus Content for Supporters become a supporter of Apollos Watered to learn more and get access to bonus material like this episode! Thank you for supporting the work we’re doing!

Apr 1, 2025 • 33min
#249 | Exploring the Depths of Scripture: The Importance of the Whole Story with Christopher J.H. Wright, Pt. 2
Travis Michael Fleming and Christopher J.H. Wright engage in a profound discourse concerning the implications of Chris' book, "The Great Story and the Great Commission". Central to their conversation is the assertion that the Great Commission must not merely be perceived as a task to be completed, but rather as an enduring invitation to partake in God's ongoing narrative of redemption. They elucidate the daunting reality that a significant portion of the global population remains unaware of the Christian faith, emphasizing the necessity for sustained commitment to evangelism and discipleship. As they navigate the complexities of leadership within ministry and the intersection of tradition and cultural engagement, they invite listeners to reconsider their role in this divine narrative. This episode ultimately serves as a clarion call for faithful participation in the transformative power of the Gospel, urging a holistic understanding of mission that encompasses both proclamation and lived obedience.Takeaways: The Great Commission is not merely a task to be accomplished, but rather an ongoing invitation to participate in God's unfolding story of redemption, emphasizing the importance of viewing ourselves within this grand narrative. In contemplating the Great Commission, it is crucial to recognize that approximately 87% of individuals from major world religions have no personal connection with a Christian, highlighting the vastness of the mission field ahead of us. The dialogue suggests a re-evaluation of our approach to the Great Commission, advocating for a long-term commitment to evangelism and discipleship rather than viewing it as a finite goal to achieve swiftly. Understanding our place within the biblical story helps to ground our identity as Christians, reminding us that we are active participants in God's plan rather than passive observers of the faith. It is essential to integrate the Great Commission with the Great Commandment and the Great Community, creating a holistic understanding of faith that informs how we live, love, and lead in the world today. The conversation stresses the necessity of practical obedience to Christ's teachings, indicating that the Great Commission involves not just evangelism, but also embodying the gospel through our actions and relationships. If you become one of our Watering Partners then you get access to the Chris Wright bonus episode! Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Kevin's perspective.Get Travis' book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.For Exclusive Bonus Content for Supporters become a supporter of Apollos Watered to learn more and get access to bonus material like this episode! Thank you for supporting the work we’re doing!

Mar 25, 2025 • 29min
#248 | Exploring the Depths of Scripture: The Importance of the Whole Story with Christopher J.H. Wright, Pt. 1
In this enlightening episode of "Those Who Serve the Lord," Travis Michael Fleming engages Christopher J.H. Wright in a thought-provoking discussion that centers around the latter's book, The Great Story and the Great Commission. The discourse emphasizes the importance of a coherent understanding of the biblical narrative, which is essential for effective ministry and discipleship. Wright articulates how the biblical story is not merely a historical account but a living narrative that frames the entirety of Christian life and mission. He contends that the Great Commission is fundamentally about shaping disciples who are informed by this grand narrative, rather than merely seeking to convert individuals.The conversation navigates through the complexities of modern ministry, addressing the inherent tensions that arise when engaging with contemporary culture while remaining anchored in biblical truths. Fleming and Wright delve into the detrimental consequences of a fragmented view of Scripture, which often leads to an impoverished understanding of the gospel. They advocate for a return to the biblical story, which is characterized by themes of creation, fall, redemption, and restoration. This dialogue serves as a vital reminder that understanding our role within God's mission is intrinsically linked to our comprehension of the biblical narrative, urging listeners to immerse themselves in the scriptures to enrich their faith and enhance their capacity to serve effectively.Takeaways: The podcast emphasizes the significance of understanding the biblical narrative for effective ministry. Travis Michael Fleming and Christopher J.H. Wright stress that the Great Commission encompasses more than mere conversions; it involves disciple-making. The conversation highlights the dangers of reducing the Bible to isolated moral lessons, which can obscure God's overarching story of redemption. A thorough comprehension of the biblical story shapes our beliefs and influences our actions in leadership and ministry contexts. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Kevin's perspective.Get Travis' book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join the movement of Apollos Watered and help transform leaders and churches today!

Mar 18, 2025 • 53min
#247 | Building Unity Amid Polarization: Calling You Deeper Than Media Headlines with James Davison Hunter, Pt. 2
Travis Michael Fleming engages in a profound dialogue with Dr. James Davison Hunter regarding the pressing themes articulated in Hunter's seminal work, "Democracy & Solidarity: The Roots of America's Political Crisis". Central to their discourse is the assertion that genuine political change is inextricably linked to the deeper structures of culture, which politics alone cannot transform. As they navigate through the complexities of American political culture and its pervasive polarization, they underscore a critical inquiry: why have political solutions often faltered in effecting lasting change? Hunter elucidates the distinction between superficial activism and profound cultural transformation, advocating for a more holistic approach that transcends mere legislative efforts. This conversation invites listeners to contemplate the intricate interplay between faith, culture, and the means by which we pursue meaningful change in our contemporary society.The dialogue between Travis Michael Fleming and Dr. James Davison Hunter serves as a critical reflection on the state of American society and the role of Christianity within it. As Hunter articulates in *Democracy & Solidarity*, the current political crisis is deeply rooted in cultural dynamics that extend far beyond the superficialities of electoral politics. Through their conversation, they dissect the implications of a culture marked by a reluctance to engage in meaningful dialogue and an increasing reliance on coercive power to effect change. Hunter posits that a true understanding of love—one that encompasses care and compassion—must inform the Christian response to societal challenges. This intimate and thought-provoking episode invites listeners to reconsider their approach to cultural engagement, emphasizing the importance of building relationships and fostering understanding at a time when polarization seems to dominate. As they conclude, both Fleming and Hunter highlight the potential for renewal through a recommitment to the foundational principles of the Christian faith, urging believers to navigate the complexities of modern life with grace and integrity.Takeaways: The conversation emphasizes that political solutions often fail to effectuate lasting cultural change, highlighting the need for deeper cultural engagement. Travis and James argue that Christian activism's reliance on political power obscures the importance of love and compassion in societal transformation. The discussion reveals that the current political climate is marked by active nihilism, which hinders a united vision of America that includes diverse voices. An essential point made is that true cultural renewal requires a comprehensive strategy that transcends mere political maneuvering and addresses foundational societal values. Hunter articulates that the church's identity should not be conflated with political power, as this diminishes its theological essence and role in society. The podcast underscores the necessity for Christians to engage in the deep work of culture, which involves listening, dialoguing, and lovingly serving their communities. Keep up with updates from Apollos Watered: The Center for Discipleship & Cultural Apologetics.Get Kevin's perspective.Get Travis' book Blueprint: Kingdom Living in the Modern World.Join the movement of Apollos Watered and help transform leaders and churches today!