

Law and Chaos
Liz Dye
Ignorance of the law is no excuse! That’s true for a traffic stop, and it’s true if you want to participate in whatever’s left of American democracy. If the events since the 2016 election taught us anything, it’s that tuning out is not an option. Legal journalists Liz Dye and Andrew Torrez break down the week’s most important courtroom stories, so you can keep on top of this crazy news cycle. Whether it’s Texas giving two middle fingers to the Supreme Court, or Donald Trump in all the courts at once, we’ve got you covered.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Mar 7, 2025 • 1h 3min
Ep 113 — Hey, DOJ, Some Idiot Is Signing Your Name On Pleadings
Today’s episode is another roundup of how trial judges are playing whack-a-mole with the Trump administration, and how all of it fits in with Trump’s plan to usurp Congress’s power to reshape the country in his image. Plus, we’ve got some crazy stories featuring the Interim US Attorney for DC trying to strongarm Georgetown University, a blast from the past with bigoted Kentucky court clerk Kim Davis, and a subscriber bonus on an obscure Civ Pro rule that Trump plans to use to make terrible losing arguments in court. Links: Ermold v. Davis [Sixth Circuit Opinion, Gay Marriage Clerk Case] https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca6.151496/gov.uscourts.ca6.151496.6015541768.2.pdf AIDS Vaccine Advocacy Coalition v. Department of State (DC docket) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69627654/aids-vaccine-advocacy-coalition-v-united-states-department-of-state/ Harris v. Bessent DC Circuit appeal https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69704122/cathy-harris-v-scott-bessent/ Some asshole is signing your name to stupid letters https://www.loweringthebar.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/browns_letter_1974.pdf Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Mar 4, 2025 • 55min
Ep 112 — The (Judicial) Center Holds
The Supreme Court is still sitting on its (tiny) hands, but trial judges are holding strong against the Trump administration’s assault on the rule of law. We’ll talk about the pushback to Trump’s anti-trans executive orders, his assault on the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and the effort to ensure that the Dear Leader can fire watchdogs at will. Plus subscribers get a deep dive on trial judges attempting to SCOTUS-proof their rulings to protect trans kids. Links: Dellinger v. Bessent [District Court Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69624836/dellinger-v-bessent Dellinger v. Bessent [SCOTUS Docket] https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/24a790.html National Treasury Employees Union v. Vought [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69624423/national-treasury-employees-union-v-vought/ Jones v. Bondi [Docket via Court Listener] https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.277335 Washington v. Trump [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69620657/state-of-washington-v-trump/ PFLAG v. Trump [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69614668/pflag-inc-v-donald-j-trump/ Seila Law v. CFPB [SCOTUS Opinion] https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19-7_new_bq7d.pdf Corporate Transparency Act, 31 USC § 5336 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5336 Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Feb 28, 2025 • 1h 1min
Ep 111 — Let the Sanctions Rain Down
The Trump administration is now openly defying court orders as multiple trial court judges seek to rein in the government’s illegal conduct. Are sanctions the solution? In at least one case, we won’t know until Chief Justice Roberts releases the “administrative hold” he imposed to consider Trump’s latest meritless request for help from the Supreme Court. All of this plus the return of ChatGPT lawyering and a subscriber bonus on the OG Coat Factory Law Firm! Links: Jack Smith 278e disclosure https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25522081-smith-john-l-special-counsels-office-smith-termination-278-2025-2025-01-10/ Talbott v. Trump https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69583866/talbott-v-trump/ Wadsworth v. Walmart (ChatGPT litigation) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67564066/wadsworth-v-walmart-inc/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc Trump’s anti-Covington EO (Patreon bonus) https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/suspension-of-security-clearances-and-evaluation-of-government-contracts/ Doe v. Office of Personnel Management. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69582338/doe-v-office-of-personnel-management/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc AIDS Vaccine Advocacy Coalition v. US Department of State https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69627654/aids-vaccine-advocacy-coalition-v-united-states-department-of-state/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 25, 2025 • 54min
Ep 110 — It’s A TROpallooza
The Trump administration has been sued by everyone and their mother, and we’re here to cover it all. From the First Amendment violations to the illegal terminations, we’ve got you covered. Plus, we’ve got an update in the Eric Adams case. Links: AP v. Budowich https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69662918/associated-press-v-budowich Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends v. U.S. Department of Homeland Security https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69580474/philadelphia-yearly-meeting-of-the-religious-society-of-friends-v-us/ Trump Media & Technology Group Corp. v. De Moraes https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69650977/trump-media-technology-group-corp-v-de-moraes/ Mizelle Letter to Judge Srinivasan [via Bloomberg] https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/r0FHd6DtBQwE/v0 Dunne/Pomerantz Feb. 20 amicus https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.628916/gov.uscourts.nysd.628916.135.0_1.pdf US v. Adams criminal docket (SDNY) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69197933/united-states-v-adams/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc In re Flynn, 973 F.3d 74 (DC Cir. 2020) https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3512121653435918827 Bessent v. Dellinger (Supreme Court Shadow docket) order https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a790_6i79.pdf’ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 21, 2025 • 56min
Ep 109 — Trump Demands VIP Pass To SCOTUS
It’s been another wild week as the Trump administration took some time off from breaking all the laws to break the rules of civil procedure. Will the Supreme Court let them get away with it? Links: AIDS VACCINE ADVOCACY COALITION v. UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69627654/aids-vaccine-advocacy-coalition-v-united-states-department-of-state/ Metropolitan Transportation Authority v. Duffy https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.637159 Dellinger v. Bessent Supreme Court docket https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/24a790.html Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 18, 2025 • 59min
Ep 108 — Trump Demands Immunity From Rules of Civil Procedure
We follow up on the Thursday Night Massacre, as Acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove finally got someone to file the paperwork to dismiss the case against New York Mayor Eric Adams. And we do a deep dive into Dellinger v. Bessent, as the Trump administration asks the Supreme Court to remind everyone that the laws don’t actually apply to Donald Trump. All of that and DOCKET ALERTS! Links: Courts Stand Up For Trans Rights and the Rule of Law https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/courts-stand-up-for-trans-rights Bove Feb. 10 letter to Sassoon (SDNY) ordering dropping of Adams prosecution https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/76308bc134b67d36/4cc46c59-full.pdf Hagen Scotten resignation letter https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/0b16892a-b4a3-4511-9eab-44ff6f69a97f.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_4 US v. Adams docket https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.628916/ Nick Akerman amicus https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.628916/gov.uscourts.nysd.628916.124.0.pdf Henry Cuellar criminal docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/68499933/united-states-v-cuellar/ Dellinger v. Bessent district court docket https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.277297/ Dellinger v. Bessent (DC Circuit docket) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cadc.41741/gov.uscourts.cadc.41741.01208711227.0.pdf Dellinger v. Bessent (SCOTUS petition) ***REPLACE S3 LINK WHEN SCOTUS LINK IS AVAILABLE*** https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/25536866/bessent-v-dellinger-vacatur-app-final.pdf Seila Law v. CFPB (2020) https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19-7_n6io.pdf AIDS VACCINE ADVOCACY COALITION v. UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69627654/aids-vaccine-advocacy-coalition-v-united-states-department-of-state/ Talbott v. Trump https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69583866/talbott-v-trump/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 14, 2025 • 55min
Ep 107 — Thursday Night Massacre
Trump’s personal lawyers are turning the DOJ into a protection racket, dropping bribery charges against NYC Mayor Eric Adams after he agreed to violate the City’s immigration laws. But they can’t find any lawyer in the Justice Department to implement their corrupt decree. At least seven prosecutors have been fired or quit. But will anyone in America notice? Links: Sassoon resignation letter https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/24535586a908999e/3801d435-full.pdf Bove response letter to Sassoon https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/7c71f04757006735/05b1f604-full.pdf Dellinger v. Bessent docket (Office of Special Counsel) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.277297/ US v. Eric Adams [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69197933/united-states-v-adams/ Bove Letter Ordering Adams Dismissal [via NYT] https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/76308bc134b67d36/4cc46c59-full.pdf After Meeting With Trump’s Border Czar, Adams Opens Rikers to ICE Agents https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/13/nyregion/adams-ice-rikers-homan.html How the Justice Dept. Helped Sink Its Own Case Against Eric Adams https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/13/nyregion/adams-lawyers-justice-department-dismissal.html Grand Vizier Musk Is A Problem For The Justice Department https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/grand-vizier-musk-is-a-problem-for Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 11, 2025 • 59min
Ep 106 — The Musk Parasite Multiplies
Donald Trump got bored during the Super Bowl, and now apparently pennies are illegal. Also, as everything Trump torches the entire executive branch, trial judges aim their garden hoses at the flames to save what they can. Today we’ll talk about as many cases as we can cram into an hour. Come for the DOGE take over of Treasury, stay for the Project 2025 shutdown of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Links: ABA STATEMENT on the Rule of Law https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2025/02/aba-supports-the-rule-of-law/ When You’ve Lost Clarence Thomas https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/when-youve-lost-clarence-thomas New York v. Trump (state Treasury challenge) docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69623558/state-of-new-york-v-donald-j-trump/ CNN: Trump stopping penny production https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-doge-usaid-news-02-09-25#cm6yd9c61001m3b6no8ip8cc3 Coinage clause annotated https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C5-1/ALDE_00001066/ Coinage Act of 1792 https://www.usmint.gov/learn/history/historical-documents/coinage-act-of-april-2-1792 31 U.S.C. § 5112 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5112 12 U.S.C. § 5481 et seq. (creating CFPB) https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/12/chapter-53/subchapter-V Sen. Warren Initial Report on the CFPB https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/2011/07/Report_BuildingTheCfpb1.pdf Seila Law, LLC v. CFPB https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=14557349188638541514 NTEU V. VOUGHT I docket (CFPB data) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.277286/ NTEU V. VOUGHT II docket (CFPB dismantling) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.277287/ CFPB v. CFSA https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-448_o7jp.pdf Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 7, 2025 • 56min
Ep 105 — The Week Everyone Sued The Trump Administration
Donald Trump’s blitzkrieg of executive orders is running into a million lawsuits. And Elon Musk’s inability to keep his mouth shut isn’t helping. We’ll discuss the avalanche of lawsuits by labor unions, non-profits, FBI agents, and anonymous federal employees, along with the judiciary’s response. Links: 44 USC § 3501 Note https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/44/3501 Musk associates sought to use critical Treasury payment system to shut down USAID spending, emails show https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/06/politics/elon-musk-treasury-department-payment-system/index.html US v. Illinois docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69616357/united-states-v-state-of-illinois/ FBI Agents Association v. DOJ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69609596/federal-bureau-of-investigation-agents-association-v-department-of-justice/ AFL-CIO v. Department of Labor docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69613359/afl-cio-v-department-of-labor/ Nat’l Council of Nonprofits v. OMB (“Nonprofits Case”) docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69583571/national-council-of-nonprofits-v-office-of-management-and-budget/ ALLIANCE FOR RETIRED AMERICANS v. BESSENT (challenge to Treasury/BFS) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69607077/alliance-for-retired-americans-v-bessent/ Doe v. OPM docket (challenge to Musk server spoofing OPM email) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69582338/doe-v-office-of-personnel-management New Hampshire Indonesian Community Support v. Trump (challenge to birthright EO) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69560542/new-hampshire-indonesian-community-support-v-trump/ The Three-Headed Chimera of Trumpian Destruction [Gift Link] https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-three-headed-chimera-of-trumpian-destruction/sharetoken/09cb444c-9355-4852-be93-f505cbbd1418 Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 4, 2025 • 1h 6min
Ep 104 — Muskrats Invade Federal Agencies
Elon Musk has invaded Washington. He has set loose a pack of feral teenage code monkeys with a god complex inside every federal agency, promising to do for Washington what he did for Twitter. What could possibly go wrong? Oh, and Musk also has a plan to “rightsize” the government by waving unenforceable contracts at federal employees to induce them into resigning. There’s a Fork in the Road all right, but this one is perhaps best not taken. Links: Nat’l Counsel of Nonprofits v. OMB (“Nonprofits Case”) docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69583571/national-council-of-nonprofits-v-office-of-management-and-budget/ Elon Musk Wants to Get Operational Control of the Treasury’s Payment System. This Could Not Possibly Be More Dangerous by https://www.crisesnotes.com/elon-musk-wants-to-get-operational-control-of-the-treasurys-payment-system-this-could-not-possibly-be-more-dangerous/ Office of Personnel Management “Fork in the Road” https://www.opm.gov/fork OPM Guidance on Schedule Policy/Career (formerly Schedule F) https://chcoc.gov/sites/default/files/OPM%20Memorandum%20re%20Schedule%20Policy%20Career%20Guidance%2001-27-25%20FINAL.pdf American Federation of Gov’t Employees v. Trump docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69588089/american-federation-of-government-employees-afl-cio-v-trump/ VSIP 5 U.S.C. § 3521 et seq. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/part-III/subpart-B/chapter-35/subchapter-II Truman EO 9830 https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/executive-order-9830-amending-the-civil-service-rules-and-providing-for-federal-personnel Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod