

Law and Chaos
Liz Dye
Ignorance of the law is no excuse! That’s true for a traffic stop, and it’s true if you want to participate in whatever’s left of American democracy. If the events since the 2016 election taught us anything, it’s that tuning out is not an option. Legal journalists Liz Dye and Andrew Torrez break down the week’s most important courtroom stories, so you can keep on top of this crazy news cycle. Whether it’s Texas giving two middle fingers to the Supreme Court, or Donald Trump in all the courts at once, we’ve got you covered.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 18, 2025 • 59min
Ep 108 — Trump Demands Immunity From Rules of Civil Procedure
We follow up on the Thursday Night Massacre, as Acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove finally got someone to file the paperwork to dismiss the case against New York Mayor Eric Adams. And we do a deep dive into Dellinger v. Bessent, as the Trump administration asks the Supreme Court to remind everyone that the laws don’t actually apply to Donald Trump. All of that and DOCKET ALERTS! Links: Courts Stand Up For Trans Rights and the Rule of Law https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/courts-stand-up-for-trans-rights Bove Feb. 10 letter to Sassoon (SDNY) ordering dropping of Adams prosecution https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/76308bc134b67d36/4cc46c59-full.pdf Hagen Scotten resignation letter https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/0b16892a-b4a3-4511-9eab-44ff6f69a97f.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_4 US v. Adams docket https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.628916/ Nick Akerman amicus https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.628916/gov.uscourts.nysd.628916.124.0.pdf Henry Cuellar criminal docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/68499933/united-states-v-cuellar/ Dellinger v. Bessent district court docket https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.277297/ Dellinger v. Bessent (DC Circuit docket) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cadc.41741/gov.uscourts.cadc.41741.01208711227.0.pdf Dellinger v. Bessent (SCOTUS petition) ***REPLACE S3 LINK WHEN SCOTUS LINK IS AVAILABLE*** https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/25536866/bessent-v-dellinger-vacatur-app-final.pdf Seila Law v. CFPB (2020) https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19-7_n6io.pdf AIDS VACCINE ADVOCACY COALITION v. UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69627654/aids-vaccine-advocacy-coalition-v-united-states-department-of-state/ Talbott v. Trump https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69583866/talbott-v-trump/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 14, 2025 • 55min
Ep 107 — Thursday Night Massacre
Trump’s personal lawyers are turning the DOJ into a protection racket, dropping bribery charges against NYC Mayor Eric Adams after he agreed to violate the City’s immigration laws. But they can’t find any lawyer in the Justice Department to implement their corrupt decree. At least seven prosecutors have been fired or quit. But will anyone in America notice? Links: Sassoon resignation letter https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/24535586a908999e/3801d435-full.pdf Bove response letter to Sassoon https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/7c71f04757006735/05b1f604-full.pdf Dellinger v. Bessent docket (Office of Special Counsel) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.277297/ US v. Eric Adams [Docket via Court Listener] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69197933/united-states-v-adams/ Bove Letter Ordering Adams Dismissal [via NYT] https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/76308bc134b67d36/4cc46c59-full.pdf After Meeting With Trump’s Border Czar, Adams Opens Rikers to ICE Agents https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/13/nyregion/adams-ice-rikers-homan.html How the Justice Dept. Helped Sink Its Own Case Against Eric Adams https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/13/nyregion/adams-lawyers-justice-department-dismissal.html Grand Vizier Musk Is A Problem For The Justice Department https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/grand-vizier-musk-is-a-problem-for Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 11, 2025 • 59min
Ep 106 — The Musk Parasite Multiplies
Donald Trump got bored during the Super Bowl, and now apparently pennies are illegal. Also, as everything Trump torches the entire executive branch, trial judges aim their garden hoses at the flames to save what they can. Today we’ll talk about as many cases as we can cram into an hour. Come for the DOGE take over of Treasury, stay for the Project 2025 shutdown of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Links: ABA STATEMENT on the Rule of Law https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2025/02/aba-supports-the-rule-of-law/ When You’ve Lost Clarence Thomas https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/when-youve-lost-clarence-thomas New York v. Trump (state Treasury challenge) docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69623558/state-of-new-york-v-donald-j-trump/ CNN: Trump stopping penny production https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-doge-usaid-news-02-09-25#cm6yd9c61001m3b6no8ip8cc3 Coinage clause annotated https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C5-1/ALDE_00001066/ Coinage Act of 1792 https://www.usmint.gov/learn/history/historical-documents/coinage-act-of-april-2-1792 31 U.S.C. § 5112 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5112 12 U.S.C. § 5481 et seq. (creating CFPB) https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/12/chapter-53/subchapter-V Sen. Warren Initial Report on the CFPB https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/2011/07/Report_BuildingTheCfpb1.pdf Seila Law, LLC v. CFPB https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=14557349188638541514 NTEU V. VOUGHT I docket (CFPB data) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.277286/ NTEU V. VOUGHT II docket (CFPB dismantling) https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.277287/ CFPB v. CFSA https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-448_o7jp.pdf Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 7, 2025 • 56min
Ep 105 — The Week Everyone Sued The Trump Administration
Donald Trump’s blitzkrieg of executive orders is running into a million lawsuits. And Elon Musk’s inability to keep his mouth shut isn’t helping. We’ll discuss the avalanche of lawsuits by labor unions, non-profits, FBI agents, and anonymous federal employees, along with the judiciary’s response. Links: 44 USC § 3501 Note https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/44/3501 Musk associates sought to use critical Treasury payment system to shut down USAID spending, emails show https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/06/politics/elon-musk-treasury-department-payment-system/index.html US v. Illinois docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69616357/united-states-v-state-of-illinois/ FBI Agents Association v. DOJ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69609596/federal-bureau-of-investigation-agents-association-v-department-of-justice/ AFL-CIO v. Department of Labor docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69613359/afl-cio-v-department-of-labor/ Nat’l Council of Nonprofits v. OMB (“Nonprofits Case”) docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69583571/national-council-of-nonprofits-v-office-of-management-and-budget/ ALLIANCE FOR RETIRED AMERICANS v. BESSENT (challenge to Treasury/BFS) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69607077/alliance-for-retired-americans-v-bessent/ Doe v. OPM docket (challenge to Musk server spoofing OPM email) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69582338/doe-v-office-of-personnel-management New Hampshire Indonesian Community Support v. Trump (challenge to birthright EO) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69560542/new-hampshire-indonesian-community-support-v-trump/ The Three-Headed Chimera of Trumpian Destruction [Gift Link] https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-three-headed-chimera-of-trumpian-destruction/sharetoken/09cb444c-9355-4852-be93-f505cbbd1418 Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Feb 4, 2025 • 1h 6min
Ep 104 — Muskrats Invade Federal Agencies
Elon Musk has invaded Washington. He has set loose a pack of feral teenage code monkeys with a god complex inside every federal agency, promising to do for Washington what he did for Twitter. What could possibly go wrong? Oh, and Musk also has a plan to “rightsize” the government by waving unenforceable contracts at federal employees to induce them into resigning. There’s a Fork in the Road all right, but this one is perhaps best not taken. Links: Nat’l Counsel of Nonprofits v. OMB (“Nonprofits Case”) docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69583571/national-council-of-nonprofits-v-office-of-management-and-budget/ Elon Musk Wants to Get Operational Control of the Treasury’s Payment System. This Could Not Possibly Be More Dangerous by https://www.crisesnotes.com/elon-musk-wants-to-get-operational-control-of-the-treasurys-payment-system-this-could-not-possibly-be-more-dangerous/ Office of Personnel Management “Fork in the Road” https://www.opm.gov/fork OPM Guidance on Schedule Policy/Career (formerly Schedule F) https://chcoc.gov/sites/default/files/OPM%20Memorandum%20re%20Schedule%20Policy%20Career%20Guidance%2001-27-25%20FINAL.pdf American Federation of Gov’t Employees v. Trump docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69588089/american-federation-of-government-employees-afl-cio-v-trump/ VSIP 5 U.S.C. § 3521 et seq. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/part-III/subpart-B/chapter-35/subchapter-II Truman EO 9830 https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/executive-order-9830-amending-the-civil-service-rules-and-providing-for-federal-personnel Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Jan 31, 2025 • 56min
Ep 103 — Trump Executive Orders Wind Up In All The Courts
Trump issued dozens of imperial edicts — oh, sorry, executive orders. Many of them are wildly illegal, mostly are deeply cruel, and all are being challenged in court. We’ll discuss the pending injunctions on his birthright citizenship order and the “pause” on government spending so that he can redline the federal budget and delete all the “woke.” Links: Trump v. Meta docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/61568745/trump-v-meta-platforms-inc/ American Federation of Government Employees, AFL-CIO v. Trump docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69588089/american-federation-of-government-employees-afl-cio-v-trump/ OMB M-25-13 https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/deb7af80-48b6-4b8a-8bfa-3d84fd7c3ec8.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_2 OMB CLARIFICATION MEMO https://ngma.memberclicks.net/assets/docs/White%20House%20OMB%20Clarification%20Memo.pdf Nat’l Counsel of Nonprofits v. OMB (“Nonprofits Case”) docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69583571/national-council-of-nonprofits-v-office-of-management-and-budget/ State of New York v. Trump (“States Case”) docket https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69585994/state-of-new-york-v-trump/ OPM Guidance on Schedule F https://www.chcoc.gov/content/guidance-implementing-president-trump%E2%80%99s-executive-order-titled-restoring-accountability Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Jan 28, 2025 • 1h 5min
Ep 102 — Trump Steals The Budget (Ft. Bobby Kogan)
Everyone knows that Congress has the power of the purse. What this administration presupposes is … maybe they don’t??? We’ll talk about Trump’s decision to steal budgeting power from Congress in violation of both the Constitution and the Impoundment Control Act with Office of Management and Budget Alum Bobby Kogan. Links: Bobby Kogan https://www.americanprogress.org/people/bobby-kogan/ Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends v. Department of Homeland Security https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69580474/philadelphia-yearly-meeting-of-the-religious-society-of-friends-v/ Trump Energy impoundment EO https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/unleashing-american-energy/ Trump EO pausing foreign aid for 90 days: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/reevaluating-and-realigning-united-states-foreign-aid/ Trump OMB “Clarification” https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/2025/01/omb-memo-m-25-11/ Kendall v. US ex Rel. Stokes, 37 U.S. 524 (1838) https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/37/524/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Jan 24, 2025 • 59min
Ep 101 — Executive Orders: Birthright Citizenship and Disappearing Trans People From Public Life
We’re breaking down two of the vilest executive orders Trump signed on his first day in office. First up, he’s attacking trans people every way he can, and the crueler, the better. How does this interact with the Supreme Court’s holding in Bostock? And Trump ignored 125 years of precedent to declare birthright citizenship illegal. One federal judge has already said NFW. Subscribers get a discussion of the latest Alex Jones bankruptcy negotiations. Links: Skrmetti: It was THAT Bad https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/skrmetti-it-was-that-bad?utm_source=publication-search Trump EO - DEFENDING WOMEN FROM GENDER IDEOLOGY EXTREMISM AND RESTORING BIOLOGICAL TRUTH TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/ Foley & Lardner instructions to clients re: Trump’s EOs https://www.foley.com/insights/publications/2025/01/president-trumps-rescission-executive-order/ Trump EO on birthright citizenship https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-the-meaning-and-value-of-american-citizenship/ Coughenour TRO https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.343943/gov.uscourts.wawd.343943.43.0_1.pdf Baldoni/Lively docket https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.635145 Alex Jones docket (for Patreon bonus) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66583024/alexander-e-jones/ Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod Contributing Artist: Liz Dye; Andrew Torrez Album artist: Liz Dye; Andrew Torrez Album: Law and Chaos Genre: Government; Politics Publisher: Res Ipsa Media LLC

Jan 21, 2025 • 53min
Ep 100 — Immigration Under Trump (ft. Dan Kowalski)
Trump has vowed to deport millions of undocumented immigrants and close the border. Today’s guest, Dan Kowalski, practiced immigration law for 38 years and writes extensively on the subject. We’ll break down what to expect and how to fight back. Links: Involuntary Departure, by Dan Kowalski https://dankowalski.substack.com/ American Council on Education: Immigration-Related Campus Concerns https://www.acenet.edu/Documents/Issue-Brief-Immigration-Related-Campus-Concerns-2025.pdf Against the Wall https://heliotropebooks.com/books/against-the-wall-my-journey-from-border-patrol-agent-to-immigration-rights-activist/ NYT Debate on Birthright Citizenship https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/08/24/should-birthright-citizenship-be-abolished/eliminating-birthright-citizenship-would-be-a-bureacratic-and-costly-change-of-law Is Birthright Citizenship Good for America https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/2012/1/cj32n1-10.pdf Myths and Facts about Birthright Citizenship https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/Birthright%20Citizenship%20091509.pdf IPTP Will Track Trump 2.0 https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/insights/legal/immigration/b/outsidenews/posts/iptp-will-track-trump-2-0 Justice Action Center: Tracking Extremist Challenges to Immigrant Inclusive Policies https://litigationtracker.justiceactioncenter.org/ Us and Them: The Science of Identity https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/U/bo5812106.html Understanding INA Section 212(f): The President’s Authority to Suspend the Entry of Migrants https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/understanding-ina-section-212f-president-authority-suspend-entry-migrants Show Links: https://www.lawandchaospod.com/ BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod Threads: @LawAndChaosPod Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Jan 17, 2025 • 1h 5min
Ep 99 — Half A Special Counsel Report Is Like Half A Democracy
The discussion dives into the explosive findings of the Special Counsel Report, revealing alarming presidential conduct. Rudy Giuliani's legal woes are scrutinized, especially in light of a recent settlement. TikTok's surveillance concerns bring forth debates on free speech versus national security. The hosts explore profound implications around Trump’s alleged election interference and how key figures attempted to manipulate the Justice Department. The legal complexities of the January 6 events and the Insurrection Act are dissected, raising serious questions about accountability in today's political landscape.