Today, I discuss three chapters of issues that are tied together by the place-making triumvirate of design, policy and management. First, I revisit the International Downtown Association (IDA) annual conference, and the importance of place management organizations. Very quietly, these types of groups are stepping up to better manage public space in neighborhoods all over the country. It’s a great thing. Second, I dig deeper into the issues facing many schools and getting kids to schools on buses. I ask, is this yet another example of how we seem to be drifting fitfully back toward 1910? What do you think? Is there a solution to the bussing dilemma? Can we afford to keep operating a system just for children? Are there other things you see, that feel like harkening back to a previous era of civilization?Finally, why do our thoughts on economic development in rural areas continue to just be nothing more than warmed-up leftovers from a previous era? Do we have the capacity to critically examine systems that haven’t worked, abandon them and start over? Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

I’ve long said it’s incredibly unfortunate we have such negative caricatures of real estate developers. Perhaps this is a sad legacy of the movie “Caddyshack.” Or, perhaps it’s the relentless wave of cherry-picked stories that dominate our media narratives.All the while, we have people like Diane Botwin, who just go about their lives and days creating wonderful projects, partnerships and good deeds for human beings. Why isn’t she our picture of a developer? In this episode, we trace Diane’s path from musician to attorney to developer. You may even notice she’s managing a construction project in the background during the interview. We also talk a bit about WIRED KC, or Women in Real Estate Development. It’s an incredible story, worthy of a whole episode.Diane is the owner of Botwin Commercial Development in Kansas City. I’m also fortunate to be partnered with her and Andrew Ganahl on an infill development here as a small part of AND Real Estate. We are building ten townhomes and ten apartments in the wonderful Columbus Park neighborhood.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

In the very small world of people working on the concept of pre-approved building plans for infill development, Jennifer Griffin and Jennifer Settle have been pioneers. “The Jennifers,” as a few of us jokingly call them (I’ll have a future episode with “The Matts”) meet with me to discuss their work in South Bend, and their own journeys as entrepreneurs in the world of urban design and architecture.Jen Griffin runs her own firm in Tulsa, OK called J Griffin Design.Jen Settle now works with Opticos Design, in their Chicago office.They both have worked extensively in a volunteer and partnership capacity with the Incremental Development Alliance and Neighborhood Evolution.For more detailed information on the work in South Bend, click here.As a side note, for anyone interested in more discussion on entrepreneurship while being a Mom, check out this episode with Alli Quinlan.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Please take a moment and give this podcast a review on your favorite podcast platform.David Sucher’s 1995 classic, City Comforts is a book I have long recommended to anyone with an interest in cities, design and planning. In a way, the book really hit the cultural mark in that era. It was set in Seattle, which was the locus for 1990s culture, especially musical culture. You could almost pair up the book with the 1990s movie, “Singles,” for a sense of what was happening broadly with the American zeitgeist, and perhaps Douglas Coupland’s novel Microserfs. David’s book was eminently practical, with not a smidge of utopian thinking. It’s written and told by someone who sees problems to be solved at the micro scale, and solutions that can be had. It’s written in a series of very short vignettes. It’s written with an obvious love and care for humans, and for the cities they inhabit. And while it clearly derives from the era, it could be re-published today with very few changes and having similar relevance. In fact, that’s something David and I discuss.Here’s a few links we discuss:David’s “3 Rules for a Walkable Neighborhood”Allowing One Triplex per BlockOn the proposed gondola for Little Cottonwood CanyonFind more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

What exactly do “place management” organizations do, and where can they be most effective? I share my thoughts after leading Midtown KC Now for almost four years, and I see our role. Here’s a tease: I think the role of these sorts of organizations is incredibly important for the success of communities, and I fully expect this role to grow in the future. This is the kind of locally-based, micro-scale work that truly makes a difference.In the intro, I also reference former Charleston, SC Mayor Joe Riley. There’s many clips you can find of Riley on-line, but here’s a short one:I also discuss why I believe we need to have a growth mindset for the urban core of Kansas City. Here’s a few charts that I use to help explain this position:Please take a moment and give this podcast a review on your favorite podcast platform.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Jason Segedy has served in public service in Akron, Ohio for over 25 years. He’s been a leader at an MPO, and also the Planning Director in the city where he was born and raised. It’s safe to say that Jason has a lot of love for his hometown of Akron, Ohio.I began following Jason on social media, mostly Twitter, several years ago. I found him instantly to be one of the most thoughtful, provocative and insightful people on that forum. He’s a big thinker, but also eminently practical and funny. He cares deeply about his place, but he also knows there’s more to life than the simple pursuit of urban planning. In fact, that knowledge and sense of priorities has colored his on-again, off-again relationship with social media. That’s something we discuss in detail.Jason’s also a fabulous long-form writer, and I hope he takes it up again soon. Here’s his Tumblr blog, “Notes from the Underground.” Please take a moment and give this podcast a review on your favorite podcast platform.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Steve Garrett has a delightful podcast called Within the Realm, where he tells short stories of people and places in the world he knows best. He’s also a former City Manager, and a recent devotee to the world of Strong Towns. He joins me to talk about how people like himself and others that aren’t so versed in the world of city-making can find ways to improve their own little corner of the world. We hit on big and small change, successes and failures and the different roles we can all play.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

About a month ago, Strong Towns released this fantastic video on South Bend, Indiana that’s gone a bit viral within the planning and development world. I personally wish it would go viral to an enormous audience. It’s a remarkable story, and they called it, “Can American Cities Save Themselves? This One Thinks So.”One of the protagonists in this story is Mike Keen, a retired professor who lives in South Bend. Mike joins me in this episode to dive deeper into how this all came together, and how he went from someone knowing nothing about business to one of the lead “conductors” in the symphony of small developers doing amazing work in South Bend.This is real, difficult work. South Bend is not a sexy place like Austin, Nashville, or any other booming city. But it’s clearly a place that the people who live there love and care about, and are giving it renewed life. Through partnerships with Incremental Development Alliance, Neighborhood Evolution and with thoughtful local leadership, this community has changed its course. What’s striking to me is that this particular story about South Bend is one that could be told hundreds of times over, for towns and cities of all sizes in the Midwest and Rust Belt. It’s about how people can recreate local economies, take ownership themselves, heal the scars of the past and help people find meaning in their lives. I find it absolutely inspiring.One minor tangent - we talk a little bit about the idea of pre-approved building plans in this episode. Apologies to my friend Jen Griffin, who’s name I botched. But Jen and her friend and colleague Jen Settle have done some pioneering, ground-breaking work on this idea. I’ll explore that more in future podcasts.Key links:The Natural StepFind more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

During the course of this interview, I jokingly called Butch Rigby the George Bailey of Kansas City. But the more I reflect on this, the more true it rings. Butch talks about how he started with nothing, got his hands dirty for years, and slowly but doggedly created a successful development business. And, how he did it almost exclusively by working with small, local businesses. There’s so much to learn here, and if I had the power, I’d have every 20-something that’s looking for something meaningful to do in life to listen to this episode. I wish I could go back in time and make the 20-something version of me listen to it. Butch shares an awful lot of pearls of wisdom, born from deep experience over four decades of work. When you talk with Butch, you also can’t help talking about the movies, since he has such a deep passion for film. But unlike most people who have passions, Butch actually found a way to marry his with another interest - beautiful, old buildings and how to make them viable again. We talk a lot about Film Row in Kansas City in this piece, and here’s a link to some more information on the history.This is about the long, slow and patient process to improving your community and ultimately achieving success. It’s about remaining positive and optimistic in the face of difficulties. And it’s about how to use your creativity, wherever it comes from, as an advantage.Key links:Brookside East, Butch’s primary area of emphasis nowScreenland ArmourFind more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

“People travel thousands of miles to go on outdoor adventures, but you can do all that right here on the Mississippi.”The great river through the middle of the country is so many things to so many people. It’s a transportation lifeline, a natural wonder, a deep connection to the human spirit, and the birthplace of countless cities and towns.Dean Klinkenberg, who happens to be my older brother, has spent all his adult life living along the river, studying it, exploring it, and thinking about how to make it more accessible and healthier for all. He’s written numerous books with the river as the star, and now has his own podcast. All of it can be found from his website - the Mississippi Valley Traveler.What’s even more interesting is how our interests overlap when it comes to thinking about cities, towns, nature and the middle of the country. In this podcast, Dean talks about a possible vision of holistic river management. It sounds an awful lot like how I think about the places humans inhabit - how we’ve applied reductionist, narrow approaches for about a century that haven’t exactly worked out so well. And now, how we need a more holistic approach to life in our places. There’s been some overlap in the world of environmental science to this line of thinking for years, but we too often still think of our rivers as just simplistic navigation channels. Welcome to the podcast my mother has been waiting for. I hope you enjoy it as well.The future is holistic!Key links:Trempealeau National Wildlife RefugePoverty Point World Heritage SiteCahokia MoundsFind more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe