Howard Blackson is the Howard Roark to my Peter Keating. He’s the oil to my water. Well, alright, maybe not so much. But we have sparred from time to time over American city grids, and urban design issues that all of about 100 people get really into. Beyond that, he’s a passionate San Diegan, and a very accomplished planner and designer.We finally had a chance to do a podcast together, and soldiered through some rough tech issues. Forgive any bumps.Yes, we talk some about grids, about the US West and the Laws of the Indies. But we spend more time talking about Howard’s intriguing concept of the Next Urbanism, which he outlines in this presentation below.Key links:Howard’s personal websiteJonathan Segal’s website (Architect as Developer)Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Marina Khoury is easily one of the most accomplished people in the world of urban design and planning that you probably don’t know. From Lebanon to Paris to Wisconsin and ultimately to work at DPZ CoDesign, Marina’s career has spanned a remarkable amount of work and experiences. The Miami21 zoning code alone is a heroic effort, worthy of great study for large cities nationwide. We trace Marina’s wide array of work in architecture, urban design and writing codes.Key links:Marina’s LinkedIn profileDPZ WebsiteThe Kentlands Citizens AssemblyMiami 21 zoning codeNew Town St CharlesFind more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Not to be redundant, but Arti Harchekar is a joy to talk with. The author of the unique and fascinating blog, Joyful Urbanist, Arti has moved from planning to design to now the tech world, but always explores her interest in cities, towns and how places make us feel. I knew early on that Arti would do really great things, and it wouldn’t surprise me if one day much more of the world knows her and enjoys her writing.In her writing, Arti likes to talk about our emotional connections to place. She likes to talk about mental health, while openly and bravely describing her own struggles and journey. “Why do we form attachments to these places?” “What if we focus more on how we make people feel?” “Why don’t more planners and designers focus on the human connections?”Arti wisely describes Joy as an intense momentary feeling of happiness. And that happiness is a culmination of these moments of joy.I really, really enjoyed talking with Arti, and hope you enjoy this very different take on the world of cities, planning, design and architecture.A few key links:Her current company – Remix by ViaThis conversation again reminded me of this post by Andy Boneau – ”How New Urbanism saved my life”And I also thought I should share stories of other people living unconventional lives overseas.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

At the CNU31 and Strong Towns National Gathering confabs this year, I heard a lot of language that would put planners and designers in a very small minority outside the walls of the conference center. I get it - it’s a niche audience. It exists to critique American cities and towns, and make them better. A fair amount of what happens is venting. But an awful lot of what I increasingly hear simply condescends towards what normal Americans value and choose in large numbers. We can do better by our cities and towns, without wishing for a revolution (which will never happen) that completely upends our built environment and culture of property ownership. More importantly, if we want to have success in making our places stronger, more walkable, more bike-friendly, etc, we must work within the context we have. By the way, it’s not so bad, so lighten up a little bit.In addition to this short rant, I recap other aspects of the combined conference in Charlotte. And I ask the question, is CNU at an end? All the various offshoots - including NTBA, FBCI, National Charrette Institute, Strong Towns, IncDev, The Urban Guild - all seem to have much more energy.Finally, I give a short version of my session on AI, which I delivered at the conference. Yes, I think AI will have remarkable and yuuuge effects on the built environment and all the professions that work with it. Short version: the 20th century commute-to-the-office economy is over. Buckle up, as I read into my crystal ball.As always, please give me your feedback.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

John Anderson was one of the first people I got to know when I was a young pup architect trying to get involved with New Urbanism. I did my first design charrette with John and others in 1999, in Truckee, CA. We subsequently worked together many times over the years, in both planning and architecture work. I’ve seen John rise to being a minor celebrity in this world, and see him inspire countless others to try your hand in this strange professional (if you can call it that) endeavor.We’ve agreed, disagreed and debated a lot over the years. We continue to do so. But something about our shared Midwestern background has kept us united in looking for practical approaches to better communities and better buildings.John and I cover a lot of ground in this, from his most unusual journey to the work he does, to many hard lessons learned along the way, and how to help younger people get involved with small-scale, incremental development. John was a co-founder of Incremental Development Alliance, and we talk about how that came to be.John is best found on Facebook these days, and especially his fantastic group called Neighborhood Development. We talk a bit about this blog post I wrote years ago, calling for 10,000 new developers. And though we didn’t mention it, here’s John’s own blog.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Ali Quinlan is easily one of the most impressive people I’ve ever talked with, and makes me feel like I’m not doing nearly enough with my time. She’ll almost certainly have the same impact on you.In this second discussion at CNU31, Ali talks about her path becoming an architect, landscape architect, business owner, and developer. And she talks about how to balance it all while being a single Mom of small children. Ali has some incredible insights into managing her priorities and time, as well as the business side of being in the design professions.And a first for me: in this emotional discussion, Ali becomes my first guest to come to tears. Trust me, it’s worth an hour of your time to hear Ali’s story, and what she’s learned.Ali’s company is Flintlock Lab in Fayetteville, Arkansas.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

This is the first of three conversations I recorded at CNU31 in Charlotte in late May/early June. I’ll roll the rest out in coming weeks - each was VERY different, but thoroughly enjoyable. Here’s a tease: I had my first guest cry on-air.Andy Boneau is just a really fun and interesting person to talk with. Part engineer, part planner, part marketing and messaging expert, and now a documentary filmmaker - Andy writes the can’t-miss Substack Urbanism Speakeasy. Andy is funny, self-deprecating, but also profound. If you are someone that thinks at all about issues related to planning, street design and cities, AND cares about messaging, this is a must-listen.Of course, Andy is also another Gen X’er, and it makes me wonder, should I just do a Gen X podcast? Send me your thoughts.Here’s a few other links:Post – New Urbanism Saved My LifeLink to the Seed and Spark funding page for “White Collar Epidemic: Infrastructure is Crumbling our Minds and Bodies”Why We Buy, by Paco UnderhillFind more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Aaron Lubeck doesn’t just have opinions, he’s willing to share them. Honestly. He’s also a guy with a very unusual career path for urban design and planning coaching. Part developer, part historic preservationist, part designer, and now part journalist, Aaron and I cover a lot of ground. How do we find and create more small developers in our community, and actually help them succeed? How can we especially recruit younger people, women and minorities into the field?Aaron has been involved with Incremental Development Alliance from nearly. the beginning, doing trainings and helping recruit. He’s also active with the National Town Builders Association. Because all that isn’t enough, he’s helped to launch a new magazine - yes, an actual magazine, called Southern Urbanism Quarterly.Other Links:Aaron’s LinkedIn pageAllison Ramsey Architects website - house plansFind more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Kevin’s editorial note: I’ve had some questions about making transcripts of these available, for those who’d prefer to read instead of listen to the podcasts. I’m looking into it, especially what AI tools might help. Just know I have exceptionally limited time, and there’s no way I’m going to spend an additional hour or two each week refining a transcript. At this point in my life, it’s just not possible. At any rate, the audio is much more interesting anyway - please give it a listen. If you’re new to podcasts, give them a try. I will definitely be producing more actual written content soon. The first half of this year has simply hit a new threshold for busy-ness in my life. Thanks as always for following, and keep your comments coming.For this week’s episode, I give my observations on how change happens. We seem to have a lot of confusion about this. Some folks think change never happens, and others seem to think it can be made to happen in big, utopian ways immediately. Big societal changes do happen (that should be obvious to anyone over 30), but they take time, leadership, and lots of grass roots effort. Change that sustains itself almost always connects deeply to human nature and human pleasure. I’d hope that would be obvious, but it seems often not to be the case.In my public presentations, I talk frequently about how change has happened in relation to food, cooking and eating. I discuss the groundbreaking efforts of Alice Waters and Julia Child in particular. And then we draw connections to how change has been happening with our cities and towns, going from the post-WWII period up until now. Jane Jacobs is obviously a big figure in this effort (btw, fun cameo of her in the latest season of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel), but let’s not forget the thousands and thousands of others who put in time and effort in complementary ways - all trying to pursue pro-human values about life in cities. Oh by the way, it’s not easy, and you may in fact experience a lot of hatred in the process. Buckle up.This episode comes out just as the Strong Towns National Gathering and CNU 31 in Charlotte is commencing. If you’re there and would like to chat in person, please come find me. I’ll be doing a presentation with Abby Kinney at the Strong Towns gathering related to traffic calming and beautification projects in Kansas City. At CNU 31, I’ll mostly be in the Urban Guild room, as we have two days of very exciting and practical content. Of course, there’s also the session on AI, which may or may not be practical, but should be entertaining. See you there.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

Being a Director of City Planning is glamorous, right? Isn’t that what Seinfeld taught us?Rob Richardson has been a Planning Director in both Kansas City, Kansas (the Unified Government of Wyandotte County) and Raymore, Missouri. He’s also worked as a planner in Independence, Missouri. We discuss the reality of the job in those communities, and the challenges of working in places that aren’t wealthy.While in KCK, Rob advanced numerous efforts including design guidelines for development of narrow lots (of which there are thousands in the older part of the city), a Traditional Neighborhood Development ordinance, a Sidewalk and Trail Plan, a Downtown Plan, and much more. We talk about the successes and failures of all this, and also the remarkable success KCK has had in turning its Land Bank around in recent years while working with smaller builders and developers.Rob is now back in the private sector, leading Richardson Brothers Development. Here’s his LinkedIn page.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend” Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe