Next Level Agents: The Kevin & Fred Show - Interviews with the best and brightest minds in the real estate industry

In an industry that celebrates making rain, GCI, units and volume, it’s really easy to lose sight of why we got into real estate in the first place. Most of us got into this for our families and for freedom to spend time with them. Unfortunately, somewhere along the way, we forget and find ourselves working too much, prioritizing the next meeting,  appointment and commission check.  It’s only when we have a smack-in-the-face moment that we realize that we’re running our businesses all wrong, and that we have to refocus on the original goal. A lot of what we hear from the stage doesn’t share this truth, and what the road to refocusing on what matters looks like.  The great thing about this business is you can build it, find out you built it all wrong, burn it all down, start over and build it right. You can regain the vision and start doing it in alignment with what matters to you. It’s certainly not an easy thing to do, but following through on it is worth it. It gives us a business that puts pressure on the things that really move the needle and nothing else. Shonna Ruble shares her own path through this process, from realizing it was built wrong to building it right in a new city and becoming the top team there.  Smacked in the faceWhat led Shonna Ruble into real estate was making sure her children could get what they needed, after her son needed a $700 nebulizer she couldn’t afford. Again, her children are the reason she ultimately decided to build a business and stop working all the time. Sometimes, we get so lost in rain making we forget what matters, but a slap in the face moment got Shonna to refocus.  Prioritizing what mattersIt’s crazy how much real estate you can do when you’re sitting in your car while your kid is at dance or swim class. Shonna learned how to work while her kids were doing something so that she could be there for them. Then after time with her family in the evening, she’d go back to the office. That level of focus is what allowed her business to grow.  Great people, not-so-great systems We can have really amazing people on our teams, but if we don’t have systems, everything falls apart if those people aren’t there anymore. It’s so important to take the time to document what has made you successful because that’s what will keep you going through staff changes. From how we do client events to how we celebrate birthdays on the team, you need to have everything written down.  Focus on profit Leading with profit is something we’re not taught enough in our business. We get caught up in the numbers, awards, units, GCI and volume, not net worth statements, bank accounts and profitability and it gets us in trouble. Shonna learned how to make focus the priority and it gave her staying power while everyone’s business tanked.  Put pressure on the things that matter most A lot of team leaders think you get a new agent ready by teaching them the CRM. The truth is, we have to put pressure on things that move the needle. The onboarding doesn’t end when they sign a contract, it ends when they get their first deal. We have to get them into production and get them to understand the importance of being prospecting-based. That’s what gets them paid and gets them into a deal.  Even if we have the best recruiting system, it’s impossible to predict who will be great in the long-run. Even the people who interview well can end up just being all talk and nothing more. No matter how detailed your process is, you can never really tell or predict who will be successful. That means we have to open the door for more people, let people prove who they are by their actions, and then also keep the back door open so that the wrong ones get out the door quicker.For more information, connect with Shonna on LinkedIn or find her on Facebook.  CTA ​​Please leave us a review at https://ratethispodcast.com/nla

Real estate and mortgage are businesses where we can earn more by doubling down on the thing we know (production) or force growth through other people. Agents and LOs often choose the former, so they take steps away from buying back their time, experiencing freedom and making room for other opportunities.  Though doing more production pays us in the present, forcing growth through other people ultimately pays a much higher dividend. The sooner we take that step, the better off our lives will be.  Greg Whitmire has grown through other people and dialed in his schedule so much that he’s able to be CEO of 2 successful businesses - a mortgage company and a title one. That’s a lot of moving parts, but Greg manages it effectively.  It takes a lot of discipline and effective self-management to run and grow 2 businesses, have a great family life and do everything else you aspire to do. Greg shares his incredible approach to life and business and how he’s able to work 2 high level jobs simultaneously.  Quotes  It’s just easier to get someone to buy into a system when they don't have other systems they are used to. -Greg Whitmire Boredom is the devil for me. I have to keep myself structured, if not I’m all over the place. -Greg Whitmire  Key Points   Outlasting winter in real estateAs far as seasons go, this is definitely winter in mortgage, title and real estate. For those who are able to grow - even marginally, are the ones who will benefit when things swing the other way again. They’ll get all the deals by default because there’ll be no one else left. During the winter of 2008 and 2009, it felt like it would last forever, but it ended. You don’t even need to be growing right now to benefit in the end - even staying stagnant is as good as growing if everyone else is shrinking.  Don’t knock a newbie Sometimes hiring a new agent or LO and training them is better than teaching an old dog new tricks. It’s just easier to get someone to buy into a system when they don’t have other systems they are used to. Schools are always spitting out new agents and LOs. Everyone started as a new agent, all of the greats were brand new at one time, so don’t overlook brand new folks just because you think they lack experience.  Whether it’s the agents on our teams or the clients we help, it can be hard to empathize when people are struggling to live up to their potential. It’s frustrating to see someone not do what they need to be who we know they can become. To overcome this: we have to not hold people accountable to what we think they’re capable of, but rather what they’re own goals are.  An entrepreneur who is too tightly scheduled can’t transform In order to do what needs to get done, it’s important for us to have deliberate time blocks and schedules, but there’s a caveat. Sometimes we can have so many boundaries,it keeps us from what we want so it’s necessary to loosen up and give some leeway. Even the most dialed in calendar needs some white space  https://www.summerlinfinancial.com/ CTA ​​Please leave us a review at https://ratethispodcast.com/nla 

In real estate, whoever controls the leads, controls the business - they call the shots. The rise of online lead sites like Zillow Flex means another way to generate leads, but also another entity making a claim on our earnings. The fact that a marketing company can come in and do something we can be equipped to do says a lot.  Our understanding of online leads and what the process of generating them needs to be corrected. Generating leads and taking them from the top to the bottom of the funnel is something we’re all capable of with the right tools.  If we want to future proof our businesses beyond next month’s and next year’s deals, learning to leverage tech and generate our own leads is a must. It’s how we stay relevant in the consumer’s mind, and how we defend ourselves getting disrupted out of business. If not, we’re doomed to basically become Zilow’s showing assistants.  For Syed Mohsin, teaching agents how to become their own Zillow is his mission. He shares how technology became such a driving force in his business, and why that’s key to our survival and continued success.  The biggest brokerages and teams who are doing big numbers are leveraging technology, online lead gen and automation. -Syed Mohsin The company that spends the most amount of money to acquire clients will always win. -Syed Mohsin Key Points   How tech became Syed’s superpowerNew real estate agents are taught to generate business from the people who already know, like and trust them. When Syed dropped out of college a lot of people who already knew him didn’t like or trust him. That meant he had to learn to generate business from people he didn’t know, and that’s how tech became such a huge factor in his business.  Real estate agents have online leads all wrongWe think a lead we bought from Zillow was generated just yesterday, but they attract and nurture it for months before handing it to an agent. That would be no different if we generated the lead ourselves and nurtured it until they were ready to sell. The problem with agents is we think if a lead isn’t ready to do a deal right this second, the system isn’t working. The life cycle of a real estate lead is long, and the people who make money are the ones who are willing to play the long game.  Work the whole funnel In real estate, we’re either taught to work top of the funnel leads or bottom of the funnel leads, but not both. We actually have to learn the art of generating a lead and moving it from the top of the funnel right down to the bottom when they are ready to sell.  The best way to approach online leadsIf you’re going to generate business through lead aggregators, you better not be transactional about it. Once you’ve done the deal, you have to put that person in your database. If not, you won’t be able to get repeat and referral business, and you’ll never get off the hamster wheel of buying leads.  The fight to stay relevant in the eyes of the consumerA lot of consumers don’t think real estate agents add as much value as technology does. In fact, technology has left a lot of them feeling like agents aren’t necessary anymore. Not only are tech companies making a claim on our commissions, they have the pieces in place to make us look obsolete in the eyes of the consumer.  CTA ​​Please leave us a review at https://ratethispodcast.com/nla

“Our past determines our present and our future” - that’s what most of us have been taught and what we believe. What if this concept is entirely wrong? What if our future determines our present and our present determines our past? We frame time based on our past, but it’s much more powerful to frame time based on our future, that’s what the people who achieve impossible goals and unreasonable success do.  10Xing is a whole lot easier than 2Xing. When we’re operating in the 2X version of ourselves, we’re just doing more of what we’ve already been doing. When we 10X or set the intention to 10X, we unlock more growth and put ourselves in conditions that will completely transform our lives.  How do we master our past, and learn how to operate much more powerfully in the present? How do we set a 10X goal and how does this propel us further than a 2X goal?  Renowned organizational psychologist and author of many books, including “10x Is Easier Than 2x”, Dr. Benjamin Hardy talks about the concepts of the book and how we can apply them to master time.   Key Points   Understanding the trilogy “The Gap and The Gain” teaches you how to have mastery over your past. “10x is Easier” teaches us how to have mastery over our present and future. We’re all in the present moment, but everyone is having a very different experience because of our past and our future. Everything happening in the present is based on how we’re filtering our past and future. These books teach you how to operate so powerfully in the present because of what they teach you about how to handle your past and your future.  A more masterful approach to the past We assume that the past actually comes before the present but that’s not the only way to look at time. We say who we are in the present is because of the past. We can look at this completely differently, rather than having the past cause the present, we actually have the present cause the meaning of the past. The past is a skill - if you’re not very skilled with the past, you’re not going to grow very much and you’re not going to gain a lot from your experiences.  Squeeze meaning out of small increments of time In this present moment, we’re not who we were even 24 hours ago, we’re already different. The more juice we can squeeze out of a small amount of time, the more empowered we’ll be in the present and future. Recognizing the difference between our present self and past self and appreciating that difference is powerful. It also gives us the opportunity to turn our past into more of an asset rather than a liability. Even our biggest traumas or failures can be turned into our biggest gains and they can be things that pay us in the present and future. For a lot of people, their past is a liability, meaning it’s draining their present and future and they are blaming their limited present and future on the past. On the other hand, we can turn the past into something valuable that helps us instead of hindering us.  Why it’s easier to achieve impossible goals Impossible goals are easier because they force you out of your current assumptions. If something is possible, you believe you know how to do it. If we change the goal and make it truly impossible, that means we don’t know how to do it. That’s actually the best place to start because we’re no longer operating from our past. If it’s impossible, then we really can’t access it from our past. We can’t go about it in a similar way to get to the goal. If we look at our goals, chances are we’ll discover that we’re dogmatic about how we’ll go about achieving them. Setting an impossible goal forces you out of your current fixed mindset of how you have to do it.   CTA ​​Please leave us a review at https://ratethispodcast.com/nla

In real estate, there’s 2 governing philosophies. Earn more by selling more or buy back time and treat it as a business. In simpler terms - microwave money vs. crockpot money. You’re either cheating by taking more listings or seeking ways to earn money without being at the kitchen table. If you’re the one actively doing the work everyday, you’ll never get to buy your time back and pursue other opportunities outside of selling homes.  Unsurprisingly, most brokerages want us doing the former, but like athletes, many of us are starting to wake up to how valuable our brands are. Brokerages have known this for ages - why do you think they are willing to pay top producers to stay?  Maybe, just maybe, we’re more valuable than our caps. Maybe we have intrinsic value through our relationships and reputations, and that’s something we can leverage. How do we really leverage our influence? How do we actually treat this as a business? Chris Bowers joins me to talk about the thing most agents are starting to realize that brokerages have known it for ages.  Quotes  There are no business issues, there’s personal issues that lead into your business. -Chris Bowers  We committed to not let our income be dependent on sitting in someone’s living room. -Kevin Kauffman   If you keep an open mind, there’s people that can teach you something everywhere. -Kevin Kauffman   Once something changes your life, you feel like you’ve got to go out and stream it. -Chris Bowers   When you align incentives with human behavior, you get the things you want more of. -Kevin Kauffman   Influence is a currency, there’s nothing wrong with that as long as you have good intentions. -Chris Bowers  Key Points   A real estate rude awakeningWhen you listen into a lot of real estate conversations, you discover how very few of us actually treat this thing as a business. Most people cheat growth by taking more listings, instead of building a machine that we can step out of and still make money from. We were willing to make less money in order to build that machine and it has afforded us an enormous amount of free time and opportunities outside of real estate sales.  The value of our influence For athletes, there was a moment when it clicked that they are a brand, and that the influence they yield is something worth paying a lot of money for. That’s when they started getting into bigger business deals. In real estate, the same awakening is taking place. Agents realize they have influence and that influence is valuable. Brokerages have known it for ages, but it’s starting to really hit agents like a ton of bricks. Influence is a currency, there’s nothing wrong with that as long as you have good intentions.   Crockpot money vs. microwave moneyThere’s 2 modes in real estate - crockpot money and microwave money. In microwave money mode, we’re thinking of the next deal and commission check that will help us pay our bills. In crockpot money, we’re thinking of those long-term slow burn ways to make money. Now don’t get us wrong, the microwave mode is important, we need it to get going, but we can’t stay there forever. The problem with this industry is people don’t make the switch, they get trapped into next month’s deals forever, no matter how much money they make and they never plug into crockpot mode.   I couldn’t get over not wanting to swipe my friends’ credit cards The thing about eXp is that it’s like picking a board of directors for our business without swiping your friends’ credit cards every month. We’re incentivized to be each other’s go to guys - whether we need 30 seconds or 40 minutes. We get to have high level advisors in our businesses for free, and because of how it’s structured, we all benefit from that.   Follow @chrisbowers_realestate on Instagram and listen to agentXcel on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.   CTA ​​Please leave us a review at https://ratethispodcast.com/nla

Whether we know it or not - all human beings have an internal thermostat, a certain level of abundance, joy or success we’re calibrated to. If we’re not careful, that level can make us blow up our lives and self-sabotage when we get everything we’ve always wanted.  Call it your comfort zone, your average or your upper limit problem, this internal temperature gauge runs our lives, and often runs us into the ground if we don’t do something about it. Our comfort zones are wrapped up in our identity, and anytime we have to assume a new identity, our brains can fight us and ratchet us down to the standard they are used to.  It’s how we can lose all the weight and then start eating junk food, or how we can achieve a financial goal and then make a bad decision with money. Without fixing this problem, we’re doomed to create unnecessary drama in our lives, constantly sabotage ourselves, taking 2 steps forward and 5 steps back.  How do we become aware of our own upper limit and start to raise the temperature? Real estate leader, entrepreneur, coach, speaker and Head of Industry at PLACE, Vija Williams talks about how a season of intense personal growth helped her break through her upper limit problem and become 100 times lighter emotionally.  Key Points   How to identify an upper limit problem A sure sign of having an upper limit problem is sabotaging yourself when you’ve succeeded at something or got what you want. You hit your weight loss target and immediately binge on junk food. You make money and then go and spend a ton of money unnecessarily. In real estate, it’s having a really great listing appointment but procrastinating and failing to follow up. All these are signs that we’re trying to ratchet our lives back down to an underlying identity.  Crossover self-sabotage Upper limit problems don’t always manifest in the same place. Instead of sabotaging your weight loss results by eating a bunch of junk food, you could lose weight and then go and needlessly spend a bunch of money. You can actually cross-sabotage ourselves without even knowing it by blowing your life up in a completely different area.  Intense Clusters of Growth Personal growth can happen gradually over time, but sometimes we go through intense clusters of personal growth that concentrate the learning and also concentrate the results. Often we’ll feel that we’re gaining momentum, and no one sees it, and that’s the hardest part of the journey. If you’re still going through the process, and it seems like no one’s seeing it, keep going. If you keep your eye on the prize, the change in you will become very obvious on the surface.  The right question, not the right answer Asking ourselves questions is one of the most powerful awareness we have. When we’re aware enough of what’s going on in our lives, we can ask ourselves high quality questions that move the needle. In coaching, a session should end with the right focusing question, not the answer. Then someone sits down and unpeels the layers to get to the right thing for them.  Sneaky ways your upper limit problem creeps up on us Another sneaky way an upper limit problem presents itself is avoiding taking risks to create or maintain stability. It’s having all the money to buy an investment property and just not being able to pull the trigger. It might also manifest in an inability to celebrate big wins, or having an unquenchable, undisciplined pursuit of more.   For more information, follow @viavija on Instagram. You can also send an email to vija@place.com.  CTA ​​Please leave us a review at https://ratethispodcast.com/nla

From an average home to an ultra-luxury mansion, there are 5 buckets of listings agents can go after. For many of us, the idea of breaking into the luxury niche is intimidating as hell. Agents will wait years to take a higher price point listing, or worse - talk themselves out of opportunities because they don’t think they can go for high net worth sellers. Breaking into luxury is a lot easier than we think. You don’t have to live in a fancy zip code to become an authority in that niche. You don’t have to live in a mansion, drive a Maserati or even be with a luxury brokerage.  We tend to overthink the luxury niche, but there’s a lot of opportunities for the taking right in front of us. Ultimately, overthinking keeps us on the bench and away from the best opportunities.  How do we actually define a luxury property - is it anything that’s a $1 million up? What steps can we take to go after luxury? Real estate agent, leader and luxury specialist, Michael La Fido shares how to break through the mindset barriers to selling luxury real estate.  Quotes  Generalists get paid, specialists get wealthy. -Michael LaFido There’s no easy button to break into luxury, but when agents continue to grow their knowledge, their confidence will grow. -Michael LaFido Key Points   How to succeed from day 1It’s hard enough to get started and successful in real estate, even when you’re full time from the jump. What really stands out about Michael is that he started part-time and did really well. Because he had the base income from his day job, he could put extra money towards coaching and marketing, which gave him a huge advantage.  Defining luxury Many people think a luxury property is anything from $1 million up, but markets are so vastly different that what’s considered luxury won’t be the same. Luxury isn’t just in the big pockets and big cities - it’s all over the US. Michael’s definition of luxury is a home that’s 3x the average sale price, and then there’s uber-luxury which is a home that’s 10x the average sales price.  How to get your first luxury listing In luxury listings, trust counts a lot more than experience. For upper price points sellers, their decisions will often be based on a referral. Getting more luxury listings is as simple as getting into that circle of trust and building solid relationships.  Guest Info Michael LaFido is a real estate consultant and top-producing Realtor with over twenty years of experience in the real estate industry. Michael’s marketing has been the featured cover story in Crain’s Chicago Business and highlighted in Forbes and FOX News Chicago Business Hour. He is also the author of the books “Luxury Listing Specialist”, “Outside The Box”, and “Marketing Luxury”.Michael has created the nationally recognized luxury designation for real estate agents which is known as Luxury Listing Specialist (LUXE). This designation establishes an in-depth and detailed set of standards for agents that represent luxury homes and is currently offered for Continuing Education (CE) for real estate agents in Texas and Georgia. The training is based on the same principles Michael outlines in his book, “Luxury Listing Specialist” that he teaches to agents across the world. For more information, head to https://luxurylistingspecialist.com/ and buy Michael’s books here.  CTA ​​Please leave us a review at https://ratethispodcast.com/nla

We’re all equipped with natural strengths, abilities and things that come easy to us. Those things are powerful clues to our calling. Unfortunately, when we go through the journey of unearthing that calling, imposter syndrome walks right beside it. There’s that voice that says, “you’re not worthy of this, so don’t even try,” and more often than not, we buy into it because of a story that’s been living in our brains for a long time.  In our moments of greatest revelation, our old stories and patterns come out. That’s how we can experience the clarity of knowing what we’re meant to do, at the same time as the imposter syndrome that we have no right to do that thing. If we don’t do something about it, we’re ultimately giving ourselves an excuse not to fulfill our dreams.  What blocks us from our next level isn’t tactics and strategies - we know what we need to do. The problem is the stories we tell ourselves, the mindset patterns that block us from our next level. Even incredible coaches and leaders go through the journey of discovering these stories and overcoming them. Peak Performance Coach, Kamille Rose Taylor shares her own journey to finding her calling and what blocks us from our next level.  Quotes  Don’t underestimate what comes easy to you because oftentimes, what comes easy to you may be the very strength someone else is looking for. -Kamille Rose Taylor There is something for you in this world based on the very unique set of skills you have, you don’t just have to fit into the marketplace. -Kamille Rose Taylor If you learn to harness the power of your focus, you win. -Kamille Rose Taylor Success is 10-20% strategy and tactics and 80-90% the psychology of the individual. -Kamille Rose Taylor The reality is, even people that are doing great aren’t doing great everywhere. -Kevin Kauffman  In your moments of greatest stress or revelation, your old stories and patterns come out. -Kamille Rose Taylor  Key Points   Ask yourself better questionsThe question “what’s wrong with me” is really dangerous. Think of your brain as a Google search engine - it will just follow your prompt and provide the result you requested. Asking what’s wrong with us is an inefficient way to get to the solution. Instead, we have to learn to make better prompts and ask our brains higher quality questions.  Uncovering the story The beliefs we have and stories we tell ourselves have a lot of power. When we have an underlying story that makes us feel unworthy, it’s going to come to the surface when we discover what our true calling is. If we’re going to answer the call God has for our lives, we have to find out what that story is so that we can change it. Stop comparing down, start comparing up Comparison is one of the biggest barriers to our next level, especially when we compare up instead of comparing down. When we compare down, we look at what other people have done, and we disparage and belittle ourselves. When we compare up, we look at what other people have done and get inspired and use that to see what’s possible for ourselves.  There’s no peak performance when you’re distractedThere are so many distractions, so many shiny objects especially in real estate. We could spend all our time analyzing things, and that keeps us from our next level. The environment we’re in is no longer the information age - we’re way past that. We’re in the attention age, where we’re going to drown in information without even looking for it. It becomes more critical to focus our time and energy on what truly moves the needle.  Focus in 2 easy steps There are two key aspects of focus - clarity and simplicity. First, we need to have a hyper-clear, high definition vision of what we want, then we have to seek simplicity which is ultimately the elimination of what isn’t necessary.  CTA ​​Please leave us a review at https://ratethispodcast.com/nla

In today’s episode, I’m really pumped to finally have my friend and business partner, Bob Sophiea on the show. I’m really happy to have him in the hot seat, pepper him with questions and find out how he thinks about business. One thing I really like about Bob is that he uses his deep awareness to constantly work on the next level. He’s never been afraid to tinker and change things for the sake of getting better. He truly gets what it takes to build a successful sales business, and today we discuss how he rebuilt this business after a down year, and why we need to see growth differently in this market.    Bob Sophiea is the founder and CEO of New Home Collective which was established in 2014 with a mission to revolutionize the real estate industry. Since its inception, Bob has sold close to 2,000 homes and garnered over 800 5-star Google reviews, cementing his reputation as a trusted real estate expert. Clients and professionals alike choose to work with Bob for a variety of reasons, including his expertise, social media presence, and innovative approach to the market. As a skilled negotiator, he ensures the best outcomes for his clients, while his commitment to transparency and communication fosters strong relationships. Punctuality, collaboration, continuous learning, and self-awareness also contribute to Bob's success. Under Bob's leadership, New Home Collective continues to redefine the home buying and selling experience, providing exceptional results through dedication, innovation, and client satisfaction. For more information, visit https://www.nhcnow.com/ Follow @nhcnow and @rpsophiea on Instagram.   In this market, it’s not surprising that some of the most productive and capable teams have seen a decline. For many people in real estate, this can easily be seen as failure.  But the truth is: in a bad market, staying stagnant while everyone backslides or quits is actually a win. Part of our businesses getting better in a down market is other people quitting and our ability to outlast them. This is why it’s important that we adopt adaptive persistence. We have to be nimble - we can’t be married to one way of doing things, but we also have to be stubbornly committed to continue down the road, even if it zigzags a lot. Even moving forward in mere inches is massive growth when we’re in a shift, and that mindset is what allows us to take market share while everyone surrenders.    CTA   ​​Please leave us a review at https://ratethispodcast.com/nla  

In today’s episode, Chris Bowers returns for the third time. The last time he was on the show, it was when the market was starting to look different from the highs we saw in 2020/2021. As someone who constantly challenges himself to “break his business model” to make it bigger and better, Chris is going to share some of the changes he’s made in his life and business over the last 18 months. He shares how the showing agent model has transformed his team, what “stacking wins” means to him and why working more hours shouldn’t be our default answer when we want to earn more money.    Chris Bowers is a Realtor, Investor and owner of the Bowers Team, and the host of The agentXcel podcast. Chris has been in real estate for over 16 years, but he has been an entrepreneur since his teens. Today, Chris and his wife run a successful team selling over 140 units with half of those being Chris’ personal production. He has also built a solid rental portfolio that continues to grow to this day.    Ask most business owners what they need to do to earn more money, the default answer is: work more hours. That’s the lazy answer. Some of the most massively successful people actually work a lot less. They don’t cheat by working more hours, they extract more juice out of their few working hours and let leverage do a lot of the heavy lifting.    Once we take “work more hours” off the table, we’re one step closer to breaking down some barriers to a true way to grow. We’re able to break our business models so that we can build bigger and better. We’ll also learn how to be more productive within a tighter number of working hours. That leaves room for hobbies and other pursuits because our sometimes creativity ruins the simplicity of this business.    Follow @chrisbowers_realestate on Instagram and listen to agentXcel on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.   CTA   ​​Please leave us a review at https://ratethispodcast.com/nla