The Retirement Wisdom Podcast

Will your next phase be your time? If you’re a people-pleaser, or know someone who is, you’ll want to hear from Hailey Magee, author of Stop People Pleasing and Find Your Power. It’s time to set better boundaries, advocate for your needs and priorities and start living the life you’ve imagined. Hailey Magee joins us from Seattle. ______________________ Bio Hailey Magee is a certified coach who helps people around the world break the people-pleasing pattern and master the art of self-advocacy. Holding a credential from the International Coaching Federation and certified by Erickson Coaching International, Hailey has worked with over 500 private clients, helping recovering people-pleasers rediscover not only their power and agency, but their pleasure, joy, and sense of wonder. Her debut book, Stop People Pleasing and Find Your Power, was released by Simon & Schuster in 2024. Hailey’s refreshingly nuanced perspectives on boundary-setting and self-advocacy have captured the attention of millions on social media. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, The Gottman Institute, Business Insider, and Newsweek, and she has facilitated workshops in partnership with WeWork, Women In Music, and a variety of other companies and organizations. Hailey is dedicated to offering her clients clear, research-supported strategies for change. She resides in Seattle, WA. ______________________ For More on Hailey Magee Stop People Pleasing and Find Your Power Website ______________________ Podcast Episodes You May Like The Power of Saying No – Vanessa Patrick, PhD The Joy of Saying No – Natalie Lue Edit Your Life – Elisabeth Sharp McKetta _____________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how The Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one – on your own terms. About Your Podcast Host  Joe Casey is an executive coach who also helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a twenty-six-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking. Today, in addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, which thanks to his guests and loyal listeners, ranks in the top 1 % globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.6 million downloads. Business Insider has recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy. Connect on LinkedIn _______________________ Wise Quotes On People Pleasing “It’s really just the act of putting other people first at our own detriment, chronically. So unlike regular generosity, which can feel really great and benefit our relationships, people pleasing tends to be a chronic pattern of behavior that really negatively affects us over time. And the costs are high. First of all, because we’re always centering other people and putting them first, we become really disconnected from ourselves. So we struggle to access our own dreams, our own desires, our own needs, and that can lead to life feeling kind of hollow and one dimensional. On top of that, our emotional health can suffer because we’re often over committed, burned out, resentful and disconnected.” On Boundaries “I think of these as the growing pains of strengthening a new muscle of learning how to prioritize ourselves. Like with any new workout, there’s some soreness after. But what we can do is we can find some reasons that might make that guilt or selfish feeling feel a little bit worth it. And for me, the best way to flip the script and really become more confident prioritizing yourself is really just to remember that over commitment and lead to resentment in our relationships and really harm them over time. So if you’re over-committed spending too many hours watching your grandkids, you might begin to resent your kids for asking so often. And if you’re over-committed to a certain volunteer organization, you might slowly begin to resent the people at the organization, because you’re so burnt out and taxed from all your giving. So what I like to remind us is that our boundaries, learning how to prioritize ourselves, are not anti-relationship. They’re pro-relationship because they create the distance at which you can really love and appreciate a person or an organization without resenting them. And I say in my book, research actually shows, which I found this so, so reaffirming, that people who practice healthy selfishness, quote unquote, which basically means those who have a healthy respect for their own needs and health, actually report having more positive relationships and more loving attitudes toward others, because they’re not constantly fatigued and burned out. So this really helps us flip the script.” On Fear “…the common thread is there’s fear. I’m doing this because I have to and I’m afraid. And that’s so different from kindness, which is really just, I’m doing this because I want to. I’m doing this because I want to help. And if you’re listening to this and you’re like, I’m still not sure, which one is it? The simplest little question you can ask yourself to discern which one is happening is just ask right now, do my insides match my outsides? Because when we’re being kind, they match our outside, smiling and giving and generosity is matched by an inner sense of just goodwill and contentment. But when we’re people pleasing outside, we’re smiling and happy and giving, but inside we’re shut down or resentful or frustrated or overwhelmed. And so that dissonance is what you want to watch out for.”    

Alison Wood Brooks, an O’Brien Associate Professor at Harvard Business School and expert in conversation science, shares her insights on mastering communication. She discusses her unique experiences as a twin and how they shaped her understanding of human connection. Listeners learn about the 'TALK' framework, which emphasizes the importance of topics, questions, levity, and kindness in conversations. Brooks also delves into effective apologies and navigating conflict, offering strategies for deeper connections and meaningful exchanges.

Can an experimental mindset help you navigate your transition to retirement? Anne-Laure Le Cunff, author of the new book Tiny Experiments, discusses how to become a scientist of your own life and unlock new habits, interests, and behaviors for your next phase of life. Anne-Laure Le Cunff joins us from Austin. ________________ Bio Anne-Laure Le Cunff is the author of Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World.  She’s a neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and writer. A former Google executive, she went back to university to earn a Ph.D. in Psychology & Neuroscience from King’s College London. As the founder of Ness Labs and author of its widely read newsletter, she writes about evidence-based ways for people to make the most of their minds, navigate uncertainty, and practice lifelong learning. Her work has been featured in peer-reviewed academic journals and mainstream publications such as WIRED, Forbes, Rolling Stone, Fortune, Entrepreneur, and more. ________________ For More on Anne-Laure Le Cunff  Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World Ness Labs ___________________ Best Books for Retirement ___________________ Podcast Episodes You May Like Tiny Habits Can Lead to Big Changes – BJ Fogg Design Your Life and Get Unstuck – Dave Evans Growing Old, Staying Rad – Steven Kotler _________________ Get Wisdom Notes Once a month updates on featured conversations and noteworthy articles. What Will Your Next Story Be? Wisdom Notes keeps ideas coming your way once a month to help you create it. ________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how The Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one – on your own terms. About Your Podcast Host  Joe Casey is an executive coach who also helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a twenty-six-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking. Today, in addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, which thanks to his guests and loyal listeners, ranks in the top 1 % globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.6 million downloads. Business Insider has recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy. Connect on LinkedIn ____________________ Wise Quotes On Becoming a Scientist of Your Own Life “An experimental mindset is one where we have both high ambition and high curiosity. This is really embracing the fact that you need both if you want to grow in life. And if you want to achieve more than what you think is currently possible, if you want to achieve more than what is within the realm of your imagination with what you know today, you need hard work, sure, but you need to keep some doors open for exploration, surprises, serendipity, and those kinds of collaborations that we can’t really plan for. And an experimental mindset is really about becoming the scientist of your own life, treating everything, every challenge and uncertainty in general as an opportunity to experiment and to learn something new.” On Reframing Retirement “I think retirement is such an amazing phase in life for experimentation. But unfortunately, because all of a sudden, everything we knew, all of the routines and the ways of working are changed for lots of people overnight, we find ourselves in that liminal space, that space of uncertainty. And so we might tend to have one of those three automatic responses. Because we might experience cynicism, escapism, perfectionism, instead of experimenting. Some of the key benefits of embracing this experimental mindset are really to use this phase to discover new things that you might want to do. To maybe reconnect with things that you were curious about and had to pause or put aside because you focused on your career or on your family or on any other projects. And it’s really considering that time as a time of possibility. All of a sudden, you don’t have someone else deciding what your calendar and schedule is supposed to look like. And you have this newfound freedom, which, yes, comes with a lot of uncertainty. We can also come with a lot of creativity.” On Tiny Experiments So tiny experiments, as I described them in my book, are inspired by the scientific method. But you don’t need a lab, you don’t need equipment. You certainly don’t need to apply for funding. You can just run your own tiny experiments by designing your protocol. And I call this protocol a pact because it’s a commitment to curiosity. The way you design a pact is by choosing an action, something you’re curious about, and committing to performing that action for a certain duration. And again, it’s inspired by the scientific method where when you conduct an experiment, you say, these are the number of trials we’re going to conduct, and this is how we’re going to collect data. And to choose on an action, it always starts with, again, with curiosity. So you can use this magic word, maybe. Maybe if I did that thing, I would feel more creative. Maybe if I did that thing, I would be more productive. Maybe if I did that thing, my garden would look better. Maybe if I did that thing, I would meet new friends. And so you start with maybe and you, that’s basically the hypothesis. That’s your hypothesis. And then you say, okay, what is the thing? So let’s say you kind of want to grow your professional network after you’re retired, you want to meet other people who maybe are retired and working on interesting projects and you want to connect with them. So you say, maybe if every Monday I reach out to someone I admire, someone whose work I enjoy on LinkedIn, I send them a message and I do that for six weeks. So that’s your pact. I will reach out to a new person every Monday for six weeks. That’s your data collection. That’s your pact. And the great thing is again, same as scientific experiments is that you withhold judgment until you’re done. A scientist doesn’t stop the experiment in the middle and say, I don’t quite like what I’m seeing here. Let’s stop. No, they collect the data and then the assess it. So you finish this, you send your six messages on LinkedIn over the next six weeks and at the end of the six weeks, you ask yourself, did that work? Was my hypothesis correct? Did that help me grow my professional network? Did I meet interesting people? And do I want to keep going? And if yes, that could even turn into a habit. Thank you. There’s a completely different definition of success and failure when you design experiments.”

Our guest today notes that “retirement is a little bit like life. It’s likely to be different than you think it’s going to be.” David Horton, MD shares the story of his life wife Dee Dee, and carrying on her mission and legacy. He discusses her book, Layer Upon Layer, which he helped complete. David Horton joins us from Washington State. _____________________ Bio David Horton, a retired oncologist turned book editor, spent his career driven by a deep passion for science and genuine connection with his patients. After completing his residency, he moved to the Pacific Northwest, where he met his wife, DeeDee. Known for his patient-centered approach grounded in respect, empathy, and the art of deep listening, David founded RadiantCare Oncology, building a practice that aligned with his values as both a doctor and a person. David and DeeDee shared 32 years of love, self-growth, and adventure, creating a steadfast partnership. Now retired, David is dedicated to honoring DeeDee’s mission by publishing her book, Layer Upon Layer, to continue her message and legacy _______________________ For More on David Horton, MD Layer Upon Layer book Website ____________________ Best Books on Retirement ____________________ Podcast Episodes You May Like The Well-Lived Life – Dr. Gladys McGarey Ride or Die – Jarie Bolander On My Way Back to You – Sarah Cart _____________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how The Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one – on your own terms. About Your Podcast Host  Joe Casey is an executive coach who also helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a twenty-six-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking. Today, in addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, which thanks to his guests and loyal listeners, ranks in the top 1 % globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.5 million downloads. Business Insider has recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy. Connect on LinkedIn _____________________ Wise Quotes Redefining Yourself in Retirement “Retirement is a little bit like life. It’s likely to be different than you think it’s going to be. I think of retirement as quitting the structured daily routine of your week. Mainly, we’re keeping that because we need work to provide us with financial stability. The beauty of retirement is the opportunity to redefine yourself, realizing you’ve grown so much since you chose a career and started things. And so the first thing is you have to pay attention to the financial aspect early on, if you want the freedom to redefine yourself earlier while you have better health and you have more flexibility to integrate into the world and how it’s changed. And I think that’s so essential now because technology and things has taken over so much. The earlier you get on that, the more significant you can redefine yourself with retirement.” On Layer Upon Layer by Dee Dee Horton “A lot of the things described in Layer Upon Layer are things that Dee Dee either experienced herself or observed in her years of growing up as an athlete, as well as being a teacher and ultimately a coach. And I think one of the things that always bothered her was more the idea that the attention related to sports and being quote unquote successful in our society was a little bit of an easier journey or a lot of an easier journey for the males in our society. And that was always something that I think bothered her. And what also bothered her was whenever she did see in the media stories that were related to female athletes, it wasn’t about the female athletes working hard and striving and giving up things and discipline and all of that, which is the true sporting experience. Instead, it seemed to be the female athlete that was giving up the sport for either the love of a man, or it would be the male coach or the male boyfriend that came in and said, somehow motivated her and turned her into something more as opposed to having done it herself. And so I think she having a love of writing and things like that, she decided to write a book to I guess try to make people pay a little more attention to those issues. Well, interestingly, that was something that she picked very early on. And she loved it.” On Purpose “I do feel like retirement is a chance for people to redefine themselves and recognizing how much we’ve grown from the time we chose our profession and to where we are now. And in many ways, a huge part of my initial decision to retire was because my father had passed young, he was 61, and when I got to be in my early 50s and had a doc examine me where I had a little neurologic thing. And I went to see the neurologist and basically said to me goes, Well, Dave, don’t worry, this is one of two things. It’s either ALS, Lou Gehrig’s disease, which that’s one of the worst, that’s a bad bad when you get or it’s or it’s nothing. And the light went, wait a minute, I could be my dad so easy. So that was my chance to break away from an extremely, extremely intense, busy profession of providing cancer care for a large region in western Washington. I had spent my life, not only taking care of tons of patients, but planning out how to build clinics that it made it easier for patients to get in for treatment. And I said, Wow, this will be my chance to spend more time with Dee Dee and and continue to do more of the things that we could do together. And also free her to explore some things that she wanted to go into because she had been tied down to me being in a fixed location. And that’s the way it started. But it, of course, as we talked about retirement is going to be different, just life is going to be different than you think it’s going to be. For me, I guess what I’ve done is the heartbreak of losing Dee Dee has given me a purpose. I really felt satisfied with the gift that I had left my community, feeling like I’d made my community a better place and made a contribution.”    

A lot will change once you retire and you may need build a new a social circle. Natalie Kerr and Jaime Kurtz join us to share research-backed strategies you can use to build and strengthen meaningful relationships from their new book Our New Social Life: Science-Backed Strategies for Creating Meaningful Connection. Natalie Kerr and Jaime Kurtz join us from Virginia. ______________________ Bios Natalie Kerr, Ph.D., is a social psychologist and award-winning professor at James Madison University, where she studies social connection and loneliness. Her work has been published in journals such as the Journal of Applied Social Psychology, Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology, Personality and Individual Differences, and Social Influence. She is co-author of the book Our New Social Life: Science-Backed Strategies for Creating Meaningful Connection. She also designs community programs for people who want to cultivated deeper connection in their lives. Jaime Kurtz, Ph.D., is a professor of psychology at James Madison University. Her research focuses on strategies for savoring and well-being and has been published in journals such as Psychological Science, the Journal of Positive Psychology, Emotion, and Developmental Psychology. Her work has been published in journals such as Psychological Science and the Journal of Positive Psychology. Most recently, she is the author of The Happy Traveler: Unpacking the Secrets of Better Vacations. She is also the co-author, with Sonja Lyubomirsky, of Positively Happy: Routes to Sustainable Happiness, and she regularly presents seminars on mental health to continuing education health care professionals nationwide. _________________________ For More on Natalie Kerr & Jaime Kurtz Our New Social Life: Science-Backed Strategies for Creating Meaningful Connection _________________________ Podcast Episodes You May Like How to Make New Friends in Retirement – Dr. Marisa G. Franco The Laws of Connection – David Robson The Good Life – Marc Schulz, PhD _________________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how The Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one – on your own terms. ________________________ On Social Connection “So, as humans, we have a fundamental need for social connection. We live happier, healthier, and longer lives when we feel deeply connected to other people. And while we might experience and express this need in different ways, the need for social connection is really universal. It’s so fundamental that we have built-in biological mechanisms to encourage it. When we’re socially isolated, our brain triggers cravings for human contact, in much the same way that it triggers cravings for food after a few hours of not eating. So, we literally crave connection. And that’s why so many of us felt starved for connection during the pandemic. The problem is that in everyday life, many of us simply ignore the craving or we deny it. We treat socializing like an indulgence rather than an essential health behavior, and we fail to prioritize it. We recognize the importance of sleep, exercise, and healthy eating, and we take steps to maintain them. But going out with friends, going to Happy Hour, Trivia Night, these things often take a backseat. Somehow, they feel less important when in reality, they’re just as vital to our health and well-being.  So, we really need to shift our mindset and see social connection as an essential need rather than a want.” On Meaningful Conversations  “But keep in mind that that signal, that inner kind of guidance can go a little awry with a season of extended isolation. So it can become very cyclical. So just be on the lookout for that when you tune in. I love this question because I absolutely hate small talk, and I’m always looking for opportunities to go deeper. Small talk is the norm in everyday conversation. Unfortunately, it just is. And breaking away from that can be a little scary, but there’s some research that suggests that maybe we shouldn’t be as afraid as we are.  Let me tell you about one study real quick. So they had participants engage in both shallow and deep conversations with strangers. And the shallow conversation, they answered questions like, how’s your day going so far? And in the deep conversation condition, they went a little deeper. They disclosed more personal information by answering questions like, if you could undo one mistake you have made in your life, what would it be – and why would you undo it? So pretty deep, especially with a stranger, right? Well, they had people predict how they would feel about the conversations, how much they would enjoy them, and then they reported on their actual experience. And what they found was that people expected to prefer the shallow conversation, but they actually preferred the deeper one. And they felt closer to their deep conversation partner than to the shallow conversation partner. And the deep conversations were not as awkward as they thought they would be. Sure, they were a little bit awkward at first, but not as much as they thought. They liked the deep conversations better.” On Attention “For me, one of the practices that I’ve really tried to put into my life, in addition to going deeper in conversations, is really being aware of where my attention is when I am interacting with people. I’ve just noticed how good it feels to be the focus of someone’s attention, and being able to give that back is a really valuable gift, especially in these times when our attention is so limited, and being pulled in a million different directions. We all know how crummy it feels to be in an interaction, and somebody just picks up their phone and starts looking at their phone, or just looks away, and you can tell they’re not with you. I try my best to really give people my attention, and realize how valuable that is.  It also underscores a point that we make in the book, too, that I think a lot of people think to be liked, and to have a rich social life, you have to be incredibly charismatic, you have to have a great sense of humor, or all these stories to tell. And sure, those things help, but just being with someone, truly with someone, and giving them your attention, even if you’re quiet about it, that can also really boost connection and relationship quality. I’ve been trying to just be more aware of where my attention is, focused. So part of it, just with any habit, really starts with awareness.”

A great retirement takes work – and learning. In her seventh year in retirement, Judith Nadratowski joins us to share her lessons learned so far in her retirement journey – lessons that can help you plan better for yours. _____ Bio Judith Nadratowski is her seventh year of retirement after a 40-year career at Cleary Gottlieb, a top international law firm based in New York where she was most recently Manager, Partnership Resources & Executive Committee Matters. You can read more of Judith’s insights, ideas and reflections on retirement on her blog Retirement Commentaries. ______________________ For More on Judith Nadratowski Judith Nadratowki’s Retirement Commentaries ______________________ Podcast Episodes You May Like Life After Work – Brian Feutz Retirement Rookies – Stephen & Karen Kreider Yoder Strategic Quitting – Julia Keller The Vintage Years – Dr. Francine Toder _______________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how The Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one – on your own terms. _______________________ Mentioned in This Episode Yes Man – Jim Carrey _______________________ Do Your Homework Explore summaries of the Best Books on Retirement ________________________ Wise Quotes On Being a Beginner “…being a beginner and learning to build things from scratch. I really went into my retirement thinking I would just really easily slip into my life. And now I could do all the things I never had the time to do. And that was exactly the reason I chose to retire. I wanted to take advantage of time. I was still in my early 60s and wanted to do new things and things I had done during a very demanding career. And I also wanted to search for a new focus. I knew I needed –  I dread using the purpose word, but that sense of purpose is something that I definitely felt I needed. And I knew that I wanted to search for something that would fill that, that I could really sink into…Retirement life takes some work and it’s not going to just happen and you have to be the catalyst. You have to figure out the gaps and start filling them in…you can really seriously think that you could try something new. So what I meant by being a beginner was I had to shed all of my sense of knowing everything and really strip down to get things that would bubble up, that would be of interest to me and to really that start from scratch. Design from the bottom up. And that wasn’t so easy when you’re used to mastering your job for quite some time.” On the Transition to Retirement “But the hardest thing for me, the challenge really was that my life wasn’t just that change in schedule. But it was [when] I realized how many intangibles my job gave me that I missed. And I wasn’t even able to articulate them at first. But as I started to think more deeply about them, I realized that my job really shaped so many things about me and was always in the background. It was how I saw myself, it was how I even chose to spend my free time. It was based around my job and how much time I would spend and even sometimes how I viewed other people. It was just so much a part of me that I never realized it was so entrenched so that when I started thinking about it, I knew that I was choosing my retirement. I was enthusiastic about it, but I felt lost. I couldn’t really figure out what those things were. And when you, if anyone were to ask me, well, what do you want to do? I couldn’t really come up with good ideas. I was really pretty lost that way. So I guess I would say how I met the challenge was one baby step at a time. I really just regained perspective. I felt that first I was kind of anxious and upset about it, but I just realized how fortunate I am to be in that position. And that helped a lot. It controls your emotions. And then I just took it in baby steps. I knew what I didn’t want to do. So I could start there, even if I didn’t know exactly what I did want to do.” On Saying No “When I stepped into retirement, my default was going to be yes. And that worked. That was good in the beginning, but it’s not necessarily the approach you can follow for a long time. And so what I’ve learned is that saying no isn’t a bad attitude and it isn’t it’s not necessarily that you’re being ungrateful or…being lazy about it. It’s really you saying on track, and for me, especially when I was in more kind of emotional or feeling like if I was unoccupied or a little frustrated and not getting where I wanted to be quick enough, if I had opportunities that really didn’t work or even ones I tried that I knew they weren’t working, I would almost default to yes, because I would think, Well, I don’t know, maybe it’ll be better. But deep down , really, I knew these were not working. So what I’ve learned is that having that kind of mission statement of what your values and goals are – and I mean goals in a very broad way – just what matters, how you want to spend your time – and if you have that as sort of your benchmark, it helps you,. It’s your framework, and it’ll help you make decisions. So saying no is a very positive thing is what I’ve learned.” On a Weekday Mindset “I think they would say it’s flexible within its structure and well-balanced and I think the part they would probably notice the most is that I’d like to keep a Weekday Mindset. I found what worked for me when I retired was I didn’t like that notion of every day is Saturday – that was like Oh my gosh! That was dreadful to me and I needed to put myself back on a weekday schedule. I’m certainly not strict but what I mean is that I use the mindset of the Monday through Friday rhythm and I like that. My work – and I put it in quotes ‘my work’ – which would be like my projects, my writing scheduling, meetings and things like that I do on a weekday schedule. Saturdays and Sundays, the weekends, are my time for leisure and fun activities and even desserts. So it works for me.” On Advice to Friends on Planning for Retirement “I know a friend who has said to me my retirement is just going to be sitting on the beach with a book. That might be what you think, but it really won’t be. I just want them to think about it as a lifetime and so I’d recommend reading to them. Think about why they wanted to retire. It’s not just about taking a vacation or stopping work, but what is beyond that? What does it mean to you? Think about what they think they might miss about their job. There will be some gaps to fill and there’s ways to do it, but you need to know what they are before you can start to do that.  I think also that there are retirement coaches and career coaches who are very helpful and can help you even a year out, I would say even more, but a year out would be a nice time…Even if you don’t know exactly how you’re going to do,  just build some awareness because I think that was something I lacked was that awareness. It’s very important to me and why my blog was born is to build some awareness. And the other thing I would tell them though is not to get too caught up in thinking you have to have all the answers. Because you want to,really be in the time and get to know who you are and what matters to you.”  

What’s the current stage of retirement and aging in the US? And how did we get here? James Chappel discusses his new book Golden Years: How Americans Invented and Reinvented Old Age, the impact of The Gray Panthers and why The Golden Girls is “the most important TV show in the history of American aging.” James Chappel joins us from Durham, North Carolina. ___________________ Bio James Chappel is the Gilhuly Family Associate Professor of History at Duke University and a senior fellow at the Duke Aging Center. He’s the author of the new book Golden Years: How Americans Invented and Reinvented Old Age, a history of aging, health, and disability in the USA from 1920 to the present. It appeared in November 2024 and has been widely reviewed in outlets like The New Yorker and the Los Angeles Times. He received his PhD from Columbia University. At Duke, he works on the intellectual history of modern Europe and the United States, focusing on themes of religion, gender, and the family. He has published two books and published widely in both scholarly and non-scholarly sites (The New York Times, The Nation, and more).. He is currently co-chair of the Prison Engagement Initiative at the Kenan Institute for Ethics, and founded the Duke-in-Prison lecture series. _______________________ For More on James  Chappel Golden Years: How Americans Invented and Reinvented Old Age by James Chappel _______________________ Mentioned in This Podcast Episode The Simpsons clip (2:45) _______________________ Podcast Episodes You May Like The Uncertainty of Retirement in the New Economy – Teresa Ghilarducci Life in Retirement: Expectations & Realities – Catherine Collinson Live Life in Crescendo – Cynthia Covey Haller ______________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how The Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one – on your own terms. __________________________ Wise Quotes On The Gray Panthers “Actually, the 60s was a lot more intergenerational than people remember. There are a lot of older activists. And there also was a lot of old age activism. So what the finally winding back to your question, they’re kind of like the 60s for old people. Obviously the name, right? So the Great Panthers, it’s obviously a play in the Black Panthers. Black Panthers are, among many other things, kind of the more radical wing of the Civil Rights movement, just as the Gray Panthers were the more radical wing of the old age movement. There was a kind of mainstream old age movement, which was in favor of things like Medicare, which was great, you know, they succeeded. The Gray Panthers are more like the talented movement. They are more like less dramatically reoriented American society towards older people. And so they do a lot of amazing things that I think ought to be remembered. And I think that in 2025, what’s most striking about their activism is how, in today’s words, we’d say it’s very intersectional. So they don’t think about old age by itself. They actually think about old age and environmental justice. They think about old age and how to have like a greener society. They’re already doing this in the 1970s. They’re thinking about old age and racial justice. They’re paying a lot of attention to communities of color. They’re paying a lot of attention to nursing home residents. This is that period when the mainstream discussion of the AARP groups like that were paying very little attention to nursing. But the Great Panthers said, no, we have to pay attention to the most needy of us. We need to pay attention to nursing home residents. Let’s empower them. Let’s organize them. Let’s organize nursing home workers to improve their conditions and wages. And so I think that if we’re thinking in the 21st century about a [vision], which maybe not all of your listeners are, but I think it’s an important thing, a kind of more radical transformative vision for old age and old age policy, I think the Gray Panthers are the most interesting kind of recent group for things like that.” On The Golden Girls “A show like Gracesand Frankie, I don’t know what would the viewership numbers are,  probably a couple of hundred thousand people or so, whereas The Golden Girls, this is 30 or 40 million people watching it. I guess a lot of your viewers probably skew older if they might remember that world, but any younger listeners, which, might not know or even remember that once upon a time, a TV show could actually matter, because it’s watched by so many people. And The Golden Girls is one of those shows. So I think the Golden Girls is the most important TV show in the history of American aging. In the early days of TV and film, you do not see that many older people represented. And after World War II, when older people are represented at all, it’s mainly a negative portrayal.  Then the Golden Girls comes on the stage in the 1980s. And it’s a great show. It’s very funny. But what makes it revolutionary is that it’s a show about older women living alone. It’s basically about congregate housing. I can experiment in congregate housing for older women in 1980s Miami. That’s the show. It’s four older people, they aren’t even that old – three of the four characters are in their mid fifties, and one of them is in their mid seventies. And they have like kind of low status jobs, they’re substitute teachers and social workers, things like that. It was kind of interesting is that these are either single or divorced women in low status, low paying jobs. You would think a show like that would be like a depressing show. And that was always seen as like the worst case scenario. Here we have like retired unmarried school teachers, that’s like the neediest population of older women. And their children do not help them. But this is not a sad show. It is a happy show about what old age can be in late 20th century America. And so the show is a comedy. And if you watch the show, they do all kinds of things like they are like, it’s a very sexually liberated show. All four of the women are sexually active, like outside of marriage. They are doing lots of jobs. And so even though they’re, they’re really like in their over the course of the show, they’re kind of in their late 50s, early 60s.” On Retirement “Some of it is financial. Some people need to stay in their job. But a lot of people, including people in my own family, they don’t know what to do without their job. So they stay in their jobs, which has a numerous kind of negative consequences for the firms and also for younger workers, mainly because they don’t know what to do with retirement. And so I think that, I don’t know, a bigger public conversation about what retirement is, I think that we’re overdue for such a conversation.”

Are you thinking big enough about your retirement? You’ll have time for the things you always wanted to do but didn’t have time for in your full-time working years. With a blank canvas to work with, what are the meaningful personal goals you’d like to pursue now? How you start can make the difference. Caroline Adams Miller joins us to discuss her new book Big Goals: The Science of Setting Them, Achieving Them, and Creating Your Best Life  and how you can use a research-backed method to set challenging but attainable goals – and make this year your best year. Caroline Adams Miller joins us from Maryland. ________________________ Bio Caroline Adams Miller is a globally renowned expert in positive psychology, with a special focus on goals and grit. For over 30 years, she has been a trailblazer in advancing these fields, helping individuals and organizations reach their most ambitious goals and improve overall well- being. She was among the first to earn a Master of Applied Positive Psychology (MAPP) from the University of Pennsylvania in 2006, a program pioneered by Dr. Martin Seligman, the founder of positive psychology. Caroline also graduated magna cum laude from Harvard University, laying the groundwork for her future achievements in psychology and personal development. She is a black-belt martial artist and a Masters swimmer. Caroline is the author of nine influential books, including:  My Name is Caroline (Doubleday 1988, Gurze 2000, Cogent 2014), a pioneering recovery memoir that has given hope to countless individuals battling eating disorders. •    Getting Grit (SoundsTrue 2017), which explores the science of perseverance and was recognized as one of the “top ten books that will change your life” in 2017 and one of the “top 25 books that will help you find your purpose” in 2023. •    Creating Your Best Life (Sterling 2009, 2021), a #1-ranked book on goal-setting that combines the science of success with research on happiness and was the first mass-market book to bridge these fields using Locke and Latham’s goal- setting theory. •    Big Goals (Wiley, 2024), which offers an accessible, updated framework for achieving significant goals, incorporating modern research on mindset, grit, artificial intelligence, and resilience. It provides practical strategies for both personal and organizational success, grounded in 15 years of new research in positive psychology. This book is destined to change the way people view goalsetting and has been selected as a must-read for The Next Big Idea Club. Her books have been translated into multiple languages, including German, Korean, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, and Italian, reaching a global audience. Caroline’s impact on positive psychology has earned widespread recognition. Dr. Martin Seligman highlighted her work in Flourish, and Angela Duckworth, a leading researcher on grit, praised Caroline’s profound insights and practical applications of grit research, saying, “No one has thought more than Caroline about how to apply the scientific research on grit and achievement to our own lives!” A sought-after speaker, Caroline has presented at prestigious venues such as Wharton Business School’s Executive Education program and delivered a TEDx talk titled “The Moments That Make Champions,” resonating with audiences worldwide. Her work has been featured in major media outlets like BBC World News, The New York Times, The Washington Post, NBC, NPR, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Fortune, and CNN. She has consulted with high-profile clients, including Morgan Stanley, lululemon, Coldwell Banker, American Bankers Association, Blizzard Entertainment, RE/MAX, Booz Allen, Harvard Law School, The World Bank, and Swisse Wellness, helping them pursue ambitious goals and create environments that foster success and well-being. Caroline’s memoir My Name is Caroline details her personal journey of overcoming bulimia and demonstrates her belief in the power of grit and goal setting. She emphasizes that pursuing hard, meaningful goals is one of the most fulfilling paths in life, leading to deep personal and professional growth. Through her books, speeches, and consulting, Caroline Adams Miller continues to inspire and empower people and organizations around the world to harness grit and positive psychology, achieve their highest potential, and transform their lives. ________________________ For More on Caroline Adams Miller Big Goals: The Science of Setting Them, Achieving Them, and Creating Your Best Life For More on Big Goals Website ________________________ Podcast Episodes You  May Like Retiring: Creating a Life That Works for You – Teresa Amabile How to Begin – Michael Bungay Stanier Living Like You Mean It – Jodi Wellman Think Big – Dr. Grace Lordan __________________________ Wise Quotes On Why Goals Matter “….it’s interesting that when you stop testing yourself, when you stop seeking novelty, when you start to think that taking risks is going to a new restaurant, then you start to die while you’re alive.  And for women in particular, what happens is we’re finding that women are dying more and more in midlife from diseases of despair because they have not reinvented themselves or found a new purpose for themselves because many of them get divorced, their bodies change, their children have moved on, or they’ve been primary caretakers, or even secondary caregivers. For women, it’s a very different phase of life and you need to surround yourself with a tribe of people who want to see the world the way you should be seeing the world.” On Why SMART Goals Aren’t Very… Smart “…there is a real science to it and that SMART goals is not science. In fact, SMART goals qualifies for jargon mishmash syndrome, which means that acronym and those letters mean different things to different people. So it’s lost its power. But many of the definitions of it are attainable or realistic. And if you’ve had any kind of brush with Goal Setting Theory, you know that Locke and Latham said, if you want the best possible outcome with your goals, they have to be challenging and specific. So attainable and realistic goals are what’s called low goals. You do not get best outcomes from that. And unfortunately, in 1982, this dude who was running a workshop came up with it and it’s sticky. And the scary thing is you go into any form of artificial intelligence from Claude to Perplexity and if you ask about goal setting, it shoots back SMART goals. So I’m very aware that this inconsistency between the science and this kind of ‘Zombie Goal Theory’ that should be dead by now, but it’s not.  It’s still alive walking around. I’m very aware that it has caught on to the point where people think it’s real. And I’m up against the tide of people who think it’s real, but it’s time we have access to the research.” On the Heliotropic Effect ” So the Heliotropic Effect…this is Barbara Fredrickson’s wonderful work showing that all living beings, human beings and plants and flowers, all open up and become our best selves when we’re around the warmth of the sun, Helios’s sun. And when we’re around people who shine their warmth of approval, kindness and support on us, that’s when we become our best selves.  That’s when we thrive. And if you don’t know who those people are in your life, it’s important that you know Shelly Gable’s research showing that the one way to tell if someone will have the Heliotropic Effect on you and your goals is if you float a trial balloon, some fake good news or some big dream of yours and you watch how they respond. And if they don’t respond with two things, curiosity and enthusiasm, they have just told you who they are. And the dangerous thing is you’re likely to abandon your goals in the next week. If you share that good news or that dream with somebody else. Shelly Gable, the researcher, said, it’s like hitting the red button on the smoke alarm. You’ll know and just see who has your back.” ____________________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with their own financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how The Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one – on your own terms About Your Podcast Host  Joe Casey is an executive coach who also helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a twenty-six-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking. Today, in addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, which thanks to his guests and loyal listeners, ranks in the top 1 % globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.5 million downloads. Business Insider has recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy. Connect on LinkedIn  

What’s your purpose now? It’s a big question, an important one – and one that many people get stuck on when they retire. Dr. Jordan Grumet believes we need to change how we think about purpose. He rejoins us to discuss his new book The Purpose Code: How to unlock meaning, maximize happiness, and leave a lasting legacy. Jordan Grumet joins us from Illinois. _________________________ Bio Jordan Grumet, born in Evanston, Illinois in 1973, found the spark to become a doctor after a deeply personal event reshaped his life’s trajectory. The unexpected loss of his father, an oncologist, ignited a passion within him to practice medicine and instilled a unique vantage point that later melded seamlessly with his financial expertise. This convergence of roles has spurred him to explore profound notions like wealth, abundance, and financial independence with a thoughtful and critical lens. Completing his studies at the University of Michigan, Jordan earned his medical degree from Northwestern University before embarking on a journey in Internal Medicine in Northbrook, Illinois. Presently, he serves as an associate medical director at Unity Hospice. With a profound understanding of both medicine and finance, Jordan unveiled his thoughts through blogging, specifically focusing on financial independence and wellness. This passion culminated in the launch of the Earn & Invest podcast in 2018. His dedication bore fruit in 2019 when he was honored with the Plutus Award for Best New Personal Finance Podcast, followed by consecutive nominations for Best Personal Finance Podcast of the year in 2020 and 2021. In August 2022, Jordan’s literary pursuit took shape as his book, Taking Stock: A Hospice Doctor’s Advice on Financial Independence, Building Wealth, and Living a Regret-Free Life, was published by Ulysses Press. His second book, The Purpose Code, was published by Harriman House Press. Jordan’s journey intertwines medical insight and financial wisdom, resonating deeply with those seeking a balanced, meaningful life. _________________________ For More on Dr. Jordan Grumet The Purpose Code Website Our first podcast conversation with Jordan Grumet on Taking Stock _______________________ Podcast Episodes You May Like Retiring: Creating a Life That Works for You – Teresa Amabile Living Like You Mean It – Jodi Wellman _______________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how The Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one – on your own terms. __________________________ Wise Quotes On Purpose “The studies show that purpose in life is associated with health, happiness, and longevity, very clearly in tons of studies. On the other hand, I found other studies that show that up to 91% of people get anxious when it comes to purpose at least some point in their life, they feel frustrated and thwarted and depressed. And so the big question is how could it be both? And what I really came to the conclusion is purpose is not one thing but two. And one of those versions of purpose, what I call big P purpose, is more associated with anxiety while the other, what I call little p purpose, is probably more associated with that happiness, longevity, and health. And so I wrote this book to help people pursue that better version of purpose.” On Purpose Anchors “People think purpose is this big thing that either they find, it falls on them from the sky, or they don’t find it.And if they find it, life is great. And if they don’t find it, everything’s miserable. And I often argue that you don’t find purpose, you build purpose.  You have to have these inklings, these beckonings, these interests to start building a life of purpose around. I call those purpose anchors. And so really the first step is to  get in touch with what your purpose anchors are, so that you can then build a life of purpose around them.” On Building Purpose “The first step is to really get in touch with what your purpose anchors are so that you can then build a life of purpose around them. So there are lots of different ways to do this. There are a few that I really love – a big one is regret. So I deal with dying patients all the time, and they talk to me about their regrets. Regret in a dying patient is sad because they don’t have agency to do anything about it. But if you have regrets when you’re much younger, when you’re not on your deathbed, you can actually turn those around into a purpose anchor. For me, writing a book would have been a deathbed regret if I had never done it. And so I knew, Okay, I have to start building a life of purpose around that. That’s one of the easy ways – regrets. Another way is the joys of childhood. Look, almost all of us have things we loved as a child when we did things that were really purposeful, that we didn’t worry about what society says or what we were supposed to do for a living. We just did them because we enjoy them. And then we got older and we tend to drop those things not because we didn’t love them anymore. Usually we just got too busy. So the joys of childhood are a great way to find some purpose anchors. Another great way is what I call the artist subtraction. You can look at your job and get rid of everything you don’t like, what’s left. I did this with being a doctor. Hospice medicine was left when I got rid of everything I didn’t like. And so I knew that was a purpose anchor. And last but not least, I talk about the spaghetti method all the time. Look, throw a bunch of stuff against the wall, see what sticks. That means try things you don’t normally try. Hang out with people you don’t normally hang out with. People will say yes more often and see if you like any of it. ”

What mindset are bringing to this winter season? Kari Leibowitz joins us to discuss her book How to Winter: Harness Your Mindset to Thrive on Cold, Dark, or Difficult Days with interesting and useful ideas on how to make this winter special. Yes, special. Kari Leibowitz joins us from Amsterdam. ____________________ Bio Kari Leibowitz, author of How to Winter, is a health psychologist, speaker, and writer. She received her PhD in Social Psychology from Stanford University, served as a US-Norway Fulbright Scholar, and taught the “Mindsets Matter” Stanford Continuing Studies Course. Leibowitz combines scholarly expertise with practical strategies to help people understand and harness the power of their mindsets and find joy in winter. Her writing on the power of the wintertime mindset has appeared in The Atlantic, The New York Times, and The Washington Post, and many other publications have reported on her work including The Guardian, The Financial Times, BBC, and The Telegraph. She has taught winter workshops to businesses, universities, non-profits, and organizations around the world. ______________________ For More on Kari Leibowitz How to Winter: Harness Your Mindset to Thrive on Cold, Dark, or Difficult Days Website ______________________ Podcast Episodes You May Like Happier Hour – Cassie Holmes, PhD Edit Your Life – Elisabeth Sharp McKetta The Joy Choice – Dr. Michelle Segar _________________________ About The Retirement Wisdom Podcast There are many podcasts on retirement, often hosted by financial advisors with financial motives, that cover the money side of the street. This podcast is different. You’ll get smarter about the investment decisions you’ll make about the most important asset you’ll have in retirement: your time. About Retirement Wisdom I help people who are retiring, but aren’t quite done yet, discover what’s next and build their custom version of their next life. A meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident. Schedule a call today to discuss how The Designing Your Life process created by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans can help you make your life in retirement a great one – on your own terms. About Your Podcast Host  Joe Casey is an executive coach who also helps people design their next life after their primary career and create their version of The Multipurpose Retirement.™ He created his own next chapter after a twenty-six-year career at Merrill Lynch, where he was Senior Vice President and Head of HR for Global Markets & Investment Banking. Today, in addition to his work with clients, Joe hosts The Retirement Wisdom Podcast, which thanks to his guests and loyal listeners, ranks in the top 1 % globally in popularity by Listen Notes, with over 1.5 million downloads. Business Insider has recognized Joe as one of 23 innovative coaches who are making a difference. He’s the author of Win the Retirement Game: How to Outsmart the 9 Forces Trying to Steal Your Joy. Connect on LinkedIn ______________________ Wise Quotes On Slowing Down “…it’s objectively true that winter is the darkest season, it’s the coldest season, it may be the wettest, windiest season, depending on where you live. But I think that there are so many opportunities in the cold and in the darkness. And I think one of the things that we can really appreciate is winter as a time of year when we get to slow down, and when it really can feel good to slow down. So I think a lot of people who struggle with winter are struggling with feeling the effects of the darkness on their energy with feeling more tired, or maybe less motivated or a little bit down. But when we see this not as a problem, but a natural response to a change in our environment, we can really embrace that as winter as a time for being cozy at home for reading that file of books on our nightstand or catching up on our TV shows or artistic pursuits, cooking and baking. So I think part of what we need to do to rehab winter’s PR image is to start appreciating the season for what it is and asking what feels good when it’s dark and cold out and how can we help people embrace and enjoy those activities for this time of year?” On Mindset “So a lot of listeners might be familiar with Carol Dweck’s work on the growth and fixed mindsets about intelligence, whether our intelligence is something sort of set or fixed about us or whether it can grow with effort. And another of my mentors at Stanford, Aliyah Crum, who runs the Stanford Mind and Body Lab, has really expanded on that work to look at mindsets in health and mindsets in performance and mindsets in wellbeing. And, I think it’s really easy to look at mindsets as something magical. I adopted this mindset that winter is wonderful and all of a sudden my life changes and the season changes and everything is sunshine and rainbows. But what I love about Carol’s work and my mentor, Aliyah Crum’s work, and really being a psychologist who studies mindset is that you can unpack of the mechanisms by which mindset influences our health and well-being. So our mindset influences things like our attention, what we notice. So when we make an effort to try to have a more positive mindset about winter, to see winter is full of opportunity, then rather than attending to every time we feel cold or having to shovel our driveway when it snows or how tired we feel when the sun sets earlier, we might attend to different things. We might attend to how beautiful the world looks in the snow or how the cold air can feel crisp and refreshing and sort of wake us up in the morning or you know make us feel more ready to come in and get cozy and get ready for bed at night. We might notice how the darkness is an opportunity to eat dinner by candlelight or have intimate conversations with family or friends. And so when we start thinking about cultivating a more positive wintertime mindset, it changes what we notice, which is then going to change what we’re motivated to do, how we interact with the world around us, which is going to change how we experience the season.” On How to Winter “What are the things that maybe I don’t have time for in other seasons or things that feel good in the darkness or in the cold. I would recommend leaning into those things and prioritizing them because when you have things that you look forward to doing that feel special to the winter they really help you reclaim the season. I think that doing this with just a little bit more intention and with a little bit more of an eye towards trying to embrace and celebrate the season can really change your experience of these winter months. The first step of cultivating one of these more positive mindsets is to just notice your mindset about winter and set that intention to start noticing things a little bit differently and trying to attend to the parts of winter that you find enjoyable.”