The Retirement Wisdom Podcast Golden Years – James Chappel
What’s the current stage of retirement and aging in the US? And how did we get here? James Chappel discusses his new book Golden Years: How Americans Invented and Reinvented Old Age, the impact of The Gray Panthers and why The Golden Girls is “the most important TV show in the history of American aging.”
James Chappel joins us from Durham, North Carolina.
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Bio
James Chappel is the Gilhuly Family Associate Professor of History at Duke University and a senior fellow at the Duke Aging Center. He’s the author of the new book Golden Years: How Americans Invented and Reinvented Old Age, a history of aging, health, and disability in the USA from 1920 to the present. It appeared in November 2024 and has been widely reviewed in outlets like The New Yorker and the Los Angeles Times.
He received his PhD from Columbia University. At Duke, he works on the intellectual history of modern Europe and the United States, focusing on themes of religion, gender, and the family. He has published two books and published widely in both scholarly and non-scholarly sites (The New York Times, The Nation, and more).. He is currently co-chair of the Prison Engagement Initiative at the Kenan Institute for Ethics, and founded the Duke-in-Prison lecture series.
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For More on James Chappel
Golden Years: How Americans Invented and Reinvented Old Age by James Chappel
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Mentioned in This Podcast Episode
The Simpsons clip (2:45)
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Podcast Episodes You May Like
The Uncertainty of Retirement in the New Economy – Teresa Ghilarducci
Life in Retirement: Expectations & Realities – Catherine Collinson
Live Life in Crescendo – Cynthia Covey Haller
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Wise Quotes
On The Gray Panthers
“Actually, the 60s was a lot more intergenerational than people remember. There are a lot of older activists. And there also was a lot of old age activism. So what the finally winding back to your question, they’re kind of like the 60s for old people. Obviously the name, right? So the Great Panthers, it’s obviously a play in the Black Panthers. Black Panthers are, among many other things, kind of the more radical wing of the Civil Rights movement, just as the Gray Panthers were the more radical wing of the old age movement. There was a kind of mainstream old age movement, which was in favor of things like Medicare, which was great, you know, they succeeded. The Gray Panthers are more like the talented movement. They are more like less dramatically reoriented American society towards older people. And so they do a lot of amazing things that I think ought to be remembered. And I think that in 2025, what’s most striking about their activism is how, in today’s words, we’d say it’s very intersectional. So they don’t think about old age by itself. They actually think about old age and environmental justice. They think about old age and how to have like a greener society. They’re already doing this in the 1970s. They’re thinking about old age and racial justice. They’re paying a lot of attention to communities of color. They’re paying a lot of attention to nursing home residents. This is that period when the mainstream discussion of the AARP groups like that were paying very little attention to nursing. But the Great Panthers said, no, we have to pay attention to the most needy of us. We need to pay attention to nursing home residents. Let’s empower them. Let’s organize them. Let’s organize nursing home workers to improve their conditions and wages. And so I think that if we’re thinking in the 21st century about a [vision], which maybe not all of your listeners are, but I think it’s an important thing, a kind of more radical transformative vision for old age and old age policy, I think the Gray Panthers are the most interesting kind of recent group for things like that.”
On The Golden Girls
“A show like Gracesand Frankie, I don’t know what would the viewership numbers are, probably a couple of hundred thousand people or so, whereas The Golden Girls, this is 30 or 40 million people watching it. I guess a lot of your viewers probably skew older if they might remember that world, but any younger listeners, which, might not know or even remember that once upon a time, a TV show could actually matter, because it’s watched by so many people. And The Golden Girls is one of those shows. So I think the Golden Girls is the most important TV show in the history of American aging. In the early days of TV and film, you do not see that many older people represented. And after World War II, when older people are represented at all, it’s mainly a negative portrayal. Then the Golden Girls comes on the stage in the 1980s. And it’s a great show. It’s very funny. But what makes it revolutionary is that it’s a show about older women living alone. It’s basically about congregate housing. I can experiment in congregate housing for older women in 1980s Miami. That’s the show. It’s four older people, they aren’t even that old – three of the four characters are in their mid fifties, and one of them is in their mid seventies. And they have like kind of low status jobs, they’re substitute teachers and social workers, things like that. It was kind of interesting is that these are either single or divorced women in low status, low paying jobs. You would think a show like that would be like a depressing show. And that was always seen as like the worst case scenario. Here we have like retired unmarried school teachers, that’s like the neediest population of older women. And their children do not help them. But this is not a sad show. It is a happy show about what old age can be in late 20th century America. And so the show is a comedy. And if you watch the show, they do all kinds of things like they are like, it’s a very sexually liberated show. All four of the women are sexually active, like outside of marriage. They are doing lots of jobs. And so even though they’re, they’re really like in their over the course of the show, they’re kind of in their late 50s, early 60s.”
On Retirement
“Some of it is financial. Some people need to stay in their job. But a lot of people, including people in my own family, they don’t know what to do without their job. So they stay in their jobs, which has a numerous kind of negative consequences for the firms and also for younger workers, mainly because they don’t know what to do with retirement. And so I think that, I don’t know, a bigger public conversation about what retirement is, I think that we’re overdue for such a conversation.”