

Disorder
Jason Pack & Evergreen Podcasts
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Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world’s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We’re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder.
The Disorder podcast, in partnership with RUSI, teases out the key principles that connect seemingly disparate challenges: from Climate Change to Tax Havens, to Unregulated Cyberspace, to the Wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Libya. Jason Pack, Associate Fellow at RUSI, and returning cohosts, discuss with world-leading experts, senior diplomats and cultural icons, the fundamental principles lurking behind today’s global issues.
At the conclusion of each episode, they will proposing inventive, win-win solutions to the globe’s most pressing challenges aka, ‘Ordering the Disorder’.
Website: https://disordershow.com/
Gone are the days of coherent international coordination. Rather than working together to solve pressing crises, many of the world’s most powerful states are actively making those crises worse. The result? We’re living through a novel historical era: The Global Enduring Disorder.
The Disorder podcast, in partnership with RUSI, teases out the key principles that connect seemingly disparate challenges: from Climate Change to Tax Havens, to Unregulated Cyberspace, to the Wars in Ukraine, Syria, and Libya. Jason Pack, Associate Fellow at RUSI, and returning cohosts, discuss with world-leading experts, senior diplomats and cultural icons, the fundamental principles lurking behind today’s global issues.
At the conclusion of each episode, they will proposing inventive, win-win solutions to the globe’s most pressing challenges aka, ‘Ordering the Disorder’.
Website: https://disordershow.com/
Episodes
Mentioned books

14 snips
May 6, 2025 • 53min
Ep116. Do Russia's Domestic Politics make it a Disorderer?
Emily Ferris, a Senior Research Fellow at RUSI, shares her expertise on Russian domestic politics. She discusses the Kremlin's grip on power and how loyalty shapes political careers. The conversation delves into Russia's role as a disordering force globally, its internal dynamics, and repression of opposition. Emily also explores the implications of a war-focused economy, the demographic shifts within Russia, and Putin's negotiation tactics, leading to important insights about the future of Russia post-Putin.

May 1, 2025 • 45min
Ep115. Is the American Dream Dead?
For a special edition of the podcast, we hear a conversation between Jason and Andrew Keen on his KeenOn podcast.
They discuss: is the American Dream Dead? Can you truly reinvent yourself in the US compared to Europe? And is there still hope for America going forward?
Producer: George McDonagh
Executive Producer: Neil Fearn
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Show Notes Links:
To get tickets to our RUSI event on 14th May visit: https://my.rusi.org/events/disorder-podcast-live-ordering-the-global-financial-disorder.html
Get the KeenOn podcast at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/keen-on-america/id1448694012 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Apr 29, 2025 • 58min
Ep114. Trump’s True Goals and Trench Warfare in the Courts
Join an engaging discussion on Trump's real ambitions and the geopolitical chaos he stirs. The conversation dives into the clash between US and European political methods. It questions the role of legal accountability and public discourse in democracy. Thoughts on the fringes of extremism and its roots in economic distress are explored. Moreover, the evolving landscape of loyalty oaths and alliances is analyzed, raising concerns about the future of international relations. Tune in for listener-driven insights and intriguing political debates!

20 snips
Apr 22, 2025 • 39min
Ep113. What’s America Without Allies? With Kori Schake
As Trump’s trade war heats up and his anti-NATO rhetoric continues, America’s allies are having to face a new reality: the global superpower can no longer be relied upon. As core allies like the EU, UK and Canada recalibrate, what does that mean for America? And what does that mean for America’s traditional European allies who rely on the U.S. for their defence? To discuss the future of NATO and Five Eyes, Jason is joined by longtime friend of the Pod, Kori Schake. She has lived her entire professional life advocating for the Transatlantic Alliance and American global leadership. She started her career as NATO desk officer at DoD under GHW Bush and is now Director of Foreign and Defense Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). Kori and Jason look at what might happen if America further withdraws from the world and abandons its traditional allies; what happens next in Ukraine; if Trump has a real peace plan; and how his cabinet members are acting like a megaphone rather than as genuine advisors. The duo look at scary scenerios: like what happens if the US tried to kick Canada out of the Five Eyes Intelligence sharing partnership and why Trump’s allies drive his policy choices towards the extremes. Producer: George McDonagh Executive Producer: Neil Fearn Pls Subscribe to our Substack and become a paid member to support us as we try to support NATO and Five Eyes - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Show Notes Links: Hear Kori previously on Episode 6 NATO: A Model for Ordering the Disorder? - https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/9472a8b7d262dd9fb0cd9827e8947964 Read Kori’s piece in The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2025/02/intelligence-agencies-weakened/681711/ Check out her views on Signalgate: https://www.aei.org/foreign-and-defense-policy/the-wrong-signals-the-proper-role-of-a-defense-secretary/ And hear her on AEI’s ‘What the Hell’ Podcast talking US Defence policy: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/wth-a-european-supreme-allied-commander-of-nato/id1467993804?i=1000701043889 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Apr 15, 2025 • 1h 2min
Ep112. Tariffs and The Divergence of US and Europe
The podcast dives deep into the diverging paths of the US and Europe on key issues like democracy, tariffs, and misinformation. Personal anecdotes bring the political landscape in Washington DC to life while examining trust in government. They discuss the potential rise of civil disobedience in the US and the influence of non-experts on policy. The intriguing contrasts in judicial accountability, particularly highlighted by the Le Pen case, add depth to the conversation. Can new leaders like Keir Starmer bring order to the ongoing global disorder?

Apr 7, 2025 • 1h 3min
Ep111. Crypto Corruption: Trump 2.0 with Frank Vogl
Frank Vogl, a former foreign correspondent and co-founder of Transparency International, joins to discuss the rampant corruption during Trump's second term. He delves into the intersection of cryptocurrency and political malfeasance, exposing how Trump’s circle exploits crypto for personal gain. Vogl also highlights the dismantling of anti-corruption mechanisms, the rise of populism, and the troubling parallels with authoritarian regimes. He stresses the urgent need for grassroots movements and a global framework to combat transnational corruption.

Apr 1, 2025 • 44min
Ep110. Ransomware in our age of Disorder with RUSI’s Jamie MacColl
In this discussion, Jamie MacColl, a Research Fellow in Cyber and Tech at RUSI, delves into the urgent threat of ransomware, particularly from hostile states like Russia. He highlights alarming incidents, such as attacks on critical infrastructure and the chaotic implications for society. Jamie reveals the evolving landscape of cybercrime, the motivations behind cybercriminals, and the gaping gaps in our defense strategies. The conversation emphasizes the need for innovative approaches and greater accountability to combat this growing menace effectively.

32 snips
Mar 27, 2025 • 1h 12min
Ep109. Sir Bill Browder, Stephanie Baker, and Jason LIVE from the Frontline Club
Join Sir Bill Browder, a renowned investor and author known for his work on corruption, and Stephanie Baker, an award-winning journalist and expert on the economic war against Russia. They engage in a spirited discussion about the potential role of sanctions and the West's response to Putin's aggression. The conversation dives into whether frozen Russian assets could support Ukraine's defense and examines the complexities of U.S. foreign policy and European leadership dynamics. Listener questions bring intriguing insights into the future of the conflict and the effectiveness of sanctions.

8 snips
Mar 25, 2025 • 52min
Ep108. (Part 2) How to Combat Extreme Ideas with Julia Ebner
In this engaging conversation, Julia Ebner, an expert on extremist infiltration and author of "Going Mainstream," dives deep into the rise of extreme ideas in mainstream discourse. She explores the Overton Window's role in shifting political narratives and the profound impact of conspiracy theories on public health and policy. Julia shares insights from her undercover work in online subcultures like the incel community, revealing how loneliness fuels extremism. She emphasizes the necessity of defending expertise and proposes innovative solutions to combat the spread of misinformation.

14 snips
Mar 18, 2025 • 45min
Ep107. (Part 1) The Hidden Logic of Extremist Conspiracy Theories with Julia Ebner
In this engaging discussion, Julia Ebner, an award-winning author and expert on extremist infiltration, unpacks the rise of conspiracy theories in modern politics. She delves into the psychological factors that attract individuals to extremist ideologies, especially during the Trump era. The conversation highlights how these conspiracy narratives unite diverse groups and funnel collective grievances. Ebner also explores the transformation of extremist rhetoric and the strategic use of myths to mask radical intentions, making it challenging to counter these beliefs in today's society.