Disorder

To best Order the Disorder, we love hosting live shows with our partners at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) and showcasing the great range of talent that they have on staff. Jane and Jason were joined for a live recording on May 14 by TOM KEATINGE, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRE FOR FINANCE AND SECURITY AT RUSI. The trio started off tackling Sanctions: the role and use of Western Sanctions before Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022; how the use of sanctions has changed since Russia’s full-scale invasion, particularly on this side of the Atlantic; what does this mean for the rest of the world; and how this expansive use of sanctions is reordering global finance.  And then moved on to the question of Markets…. and how they hold governments to account. Jason genuinely believes that the markets may be our last hope to save American democracy and that they can do what the supreme court and congress are supposed to do but cannot.  Finally, we couldn’t discuss finance and security without mentioning the Donald’s favourite word in the English language that word that he seems not to realize comes directly from Arabic, *Tariffs*.  We tried to unpack what really are tarriffs; how we know they didn’t work with Smoot Hawley; what does Donald Trump think tarriffs are. The main take away of the discussion overall was: The failure of economic tools of coercion such as sanctions and tariffs to achieve their stated aims and the power of 'markets' to reassert order.  It was a well attended live show with over 75 guests in RUSI’s beautiful library… pls come join us for the next one in the Autumn. And more importantly right now! Pls pls join our paid for substack to hear all the beautiful listener questions! Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack and become a paid member to support our work and to listen to the listener questions which are cut from this free episode - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Show Notes Links:  We are trying to grow our YouTube channel. Pls check out this rather racy video and subscribe to the channel, Is Gary Lineker an Anti-Semite? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdi4vVGyCkM  Relevant RUSI sanctions work can be found here: https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/projects/sanctions-and-illicit-finance-monitoring-and-analysis-network-sifmanet  A recent article challenging the Russia maritime sanctions status quo can be found here: https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/tapped-out-it-time-revisit-oil-sanctions-russia  A recent article arguing for action on the Russian central bank assets can be found here: https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-central-bank-assets-ukraine/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

FIRSTLY, PLS COME TO OUR LIVE SHOW. NOW OPEN TO ALL DISORDER LISTENERS Wednesday MAY 14, 17:30 AT RUSI. You can sign up here: https://my.rusi.org/events/disorder-podcast-live-ordering-the-global-financial-disorder.html  NOW TO THIS EPISODE: In Trump’s first 100 days he has disordered almost everything: from freedom of speech on campus to global trade to affairs of war and peace. And yet, despite his threats to abandon Ukraine, and actual denials of provision of certain forms of intelligence and anti-aircraft equipment, the frontlines have largely held. In fact, it now appears that Trump lacks the ability to force Ukraine to make concessions that it doesn’t want to make, namely over Crimea. So, is there more Order and hope to be found in Ukraine than is immediately apparent? To find out, Jason Pack is joined by Mark McNamee. Mark moved to Kyiv in October 2023 in order to start the Ukraine Business News (UBN) Network, with the mission to aid foreign investors in navigating the business environment of Ukraine and drive Ukraine’s economic recovery and reconstruction. He is also host of the podcast "History in the Making: The War in Ukraine”. Mark and Jason discuss: the current state of the ongoing Russo-Ukrainian War, with a particular focus on the resilience of Ukraine's economy, its innovative use of drone technology and how Ukraine could become a global leader in defense technology going forward.  Plus: the implications of the U.S.-Ukraine minerals deal as truly game changing, the role of Europe in supporting Ukraine, and whether Ukraine's potential EU membership can offset lack of potential for it to become a NATO member. And as they look to Order the Disorder, Mark proposes the creation of a European Defense Tech Fund to support Ukraine's recovery and defense capabilities. Producer: George McDonagh Executive Producer: Neil Fearn Subscribe to our Substack and become a paid member to support our work - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Show Notes Links:  Read this new report, just published by international human rights foundation Global Rights Compliance, exposing Russia’s disinformation campaign - https://globalrightscompliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Manufacturing-Impunity.pdf  Read more about the minerals deal https://www.politico.eu/article/us-donald-trump-volodymyr-zelenskyy-ukraine-parliament-minerals-deal-approved/  Ukraine Business News - https://ubn.news UBN Network - https://ubn.network/  Podcast History in the Making: The War in Ukraine - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/history-in-the-making-the-war-in-ukraine/id1752915858 The Ukrainian Action Heroes Rehabilitation Program teaches Ukrainian veterans with PTSD to ski and provides psychological support:  You can support their work with Ukrainian veterans at: www.UkrainianAction.com Arthur Snell in conversation with Romeo Kokriatski: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ukraine-and-america-the-great-betrayal/id1704344656?i=1000706415200 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Emily Ferris, a Senior Research Fellow at RUSI, shares her expertise on Russian domestic politics. She discusses the Kremlin's grip on power and how loyalty shapes political careers. The conversation delves into Russia's role as a disordering force globally, its internal dynamics, and repression of opposition. Emily also explores the implications of a war-focused economy, the demographic shifts within Russia, and Putin's negotiation tactics, leading to important insights about the future of Russia post-Putin.

For a special edition of the podcast, we hear a conversation between Jason and Andrew Keen on his KeenOn podcast. They discuss: is the American Dream Dead? Can you truly reinvent yourself in the US compared to Europe? And is there still hope for America going forward?    Producer: George McDonagh  Executive Producer: Neil Fearn    Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/    Show Notes Links:  To get tickets to our RUSI event on 14th May visit: https://my.rusi.org/events/disorder-podcast-live-ordering-the-global-financial-disorder.html     Get the KeenOn podcast at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/keen-on-america/id1448694012   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join an engaging discussion on Trump's real ambitions and the geopolitical chaos he stirs. The conversation dives into the clash between US and European political methods. It questions the role of legal accountability and public discourse in democracy. Thoughts on the fringes of extremism and its roots in economic distress are explored. Moreover, the evolving landscape of loyalty oaths and alliances is analyzed, raising concerns about the future of international relations. Tune in for listener-driven insights and intriguing political debates!

As Trump’s trade war heats up and his anti-NATO rhetoric continues, America’s allies are having to face a new reality: the global superpower can no longer be relied upon. As core allies like the EU, UK and Canada recalibrate, what does that mean for America? And what does that mean for America’s traditional European allies who rely on the U.S. for their defence?  To discuss the future of NATO and Five Eyes, Jason is joined by longtime friend of the Pod, Kori Schake. She has lived her entire professional life advocating for the Transatlantic Alliance and American global leadership. She started her career as NATO desk officer at DoD under GHW Bush and is now Director of Foreign and Defense Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI).  Kori and Jason look at what might happen if America further withdraws from the world and abandons its traditional allies; what happens next in Ukraine; if Trump has a real peace plan; and how his cabinet members are acting like a megaphone rather than as genuine advisors. The duo look at scary scenerios: like what happens if the US tried to kick Canada out of the Five Eyes Intelligence sharing partnership and why Trump’s allies drive his policy choices towards the extremes.  Producer: George McDonagh Executive Producer: Neil Fearn  Pls Subscribe to our Substack and become a paid member to support us as we try to support NATO and Five Eyes - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/  Show Notes Links: Hear Kori previously on Episode 6 NATO: A Model for Ordering the Disorder? - https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/9472a8b7d262dd9fb0cd9827e8947964   Read Kori’s piece in The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2025/02/intelligence-agencies-weakened/681711/   Check out her views on Signalgate: https://www.aei.org/foreign-and-defense-policy/the-wrong-signals-the-proper-role-of-a-defense-secretary/   And hear her on AEI’s ‘What the Hell’ Podcast talking US Defence policy: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/wth-a-european-supreme-allied-commander-of-nato/id1467993804?i=1000701043889   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The podcast dives deep into the diverging paths of the US and Europe on key issues like democracy, tariffs, and misinformation. Personal anecdotes bring the political landscape in Washington DC to life while examining trust in government. They discuss the potential rise of civil disobedience in the US and the influence of non-experts on policy. The intriguing contrasts in judicial accountability, particularly highlighted by the Le Pen case, add depth to the conversation. Can new leaders like Keir Starmer bring order to the ongoing global disorder?

Frank Vogl, a former foreign correspondent and co-founder of Transparency International, joins to discuss the rampant corruption during Trump's second term. He delves into the intersection of cryptocurrency and political malfeasance, exposing how Trump’s circle exploits crypto for personal gain. Vogl also highlights the dismantling of anti-corruption mechanisms, the rise of populism, and the troubling parallels with authoritarian regimes. He stresses the urgent need for grassroots movements and a global framework to combat transnational corruption.

In this discussion, Jamie MacColl, a Research Fellow in Cyber and Tech at RUSI, delves into the urgent threat of ransomware, particularly from hostile states like Russia. He highlights alarming incidents, such as attacks on critical infrastructure and the chaotic implications for society. Jamie reveals the evolving landscape of cybercrime, the motivations behind cybercriminals, and the gaping gaps in our defense strategies. The conversation emphasizes the need for innovative approaches and greater accountability to combat this growing menace effectively.

Join Sir Bill Browder, a renowned investor and author known for his work on corruption, and Stephanie Baker, an award-winning journalist and expert on the economic war against Russia. They engage in a spirited discussion about the potential role of sanctions and the West's response to Putin's aggression. The conversation dives into whether frozen Russian assets could support Ukraine's defense and examines the complexities of U.S. foreign policy and European leadership dynamics. Listener questions bring intriguing insights into the future of the conflict and the effectiveness of sanctions.