

8th Layer Insights
Perry Carpenter | N2K Networks
Get ready for a deep dive into what cybersecurity professionals often refer to as the "8th Layer" of security: HUMANS. Welcome to 8th Layer Insights (8Li). This podcast is a multidisciplinary exploration into how the complexities of human nature affect security and risk. Author, security researcher, and behavior science enthusiast Perry Carpenter taps experts for their insights and illumination. Topics include cybersecurity, psychology, behavior science, communication, leadership, and more.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Nov 29, 2024 • 50min
The FAIK Files | Consciousness, Scams, & Death Threats
Note: We're posting Perry's new show, "The FAIK Files", to this feed through the end of the year. This will give you a chance to get a feel for the new show and subscribe to the new feed if you want to keep following in 2025. Happy FAIKs-giving everyone! Welcome to the newly renovated and relaunched FAIK Files podcast. On this week's episode, Perry & Mason cover Anthropic's recent hiring of an employee focused on AI well-being, an AI grandmother from hell (for scammers), and Google's Gemini chatbot allegedly tells a user what it really thinks of them. Welcome back to the show that keeps you informed on all things artificial intelligence and natural nonsense. Want to leave us a voicemail? Here's the magic link to do just that: https://sayhi.chat/FAIKYou can also join our Discord server here: https://discord.gg/cThqEnMhJz*** NOTES AND REFERENCES ***AI Wellbeing:
Anthropic has hired an 'AI welfare' researcher:https://www.transformernews.ai/p/anthropic-ai-welfare-researcher
It’s time to take AI welfare seriously: https://www.transformernews.ai/p/ai-welfare-paper
Taking AI Welfare Seriously: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2411.00986
The problem of sycophancy in AI:
Suckup software: How sycophancy threatens the future of AI: https://www.freethink.com/robots-ai/ai-sycophancy
Towards Understanding Sycophancy in Language Models:https://arxiv.org/pdf/2310.13548
AI Interpretability:
Mapping the Mind of a Large Language Model: https://www.anthropic.com/news/mapping-mind-language-model
Lex Fridman podcast interview with Dario Amodei, Amanda Askell, & Chris Olah: https://youtu.be/ugvHCXCOmm4
Deceptive and self-serving tendencies in AI systems:
Sycophancy to subterfuge: Investigating reward tampering in language models: https://www.anthropic.com/research/reward-tampering
OpenAI o1 System Card: https://openai.com/index/openai-o1-system-card/
Announcing our updated Responsible Scaling Policy: https://www.anthropic.com/news/announcing-our-updated-responsible-scaling-policy
AI Grandmother from Hell (for scammers):
Phone network employs AI "grandmother" to waste scammers' time with meandering conversations: https://www.techspot.com/news/105571-phone-network-employs-ai-grandmother-waste-scammers-time.html
YouTube video of Daisy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV_SdCfZ-0s
AI Dumpster Fire of the Week (Gemini tells an end user what it really thinks about him):
Article: https://people.com/ai-chatbot-alarms-user-with-unsettling-message-human-please-die-8746112
Gemini interaction: https://gemini.google.com/share/6d141b742a13
*** THE BOILERPLATE ***About The FAIK Files: The FAIK Files is an offshoot project from Perry Carpenter's most recent book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions.
Get the Book: FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions (Amazon Associates link)
Check out the website for more info: https://thisbookisfaik.com
Check out Perry & Mason's other show, the Digital Folklore Podcast:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-folklore/id1657374458
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2v1BelkrbSRSkHEP4cYffj?si=u4XTTY4pR4qEqh5zMNSVQA
Other: https://digitalfolklore.fm
Want to connect with us? Here's how:Connect with Perry:
Perry on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/perrycarpenter
Perry on X: https://x.com/perrycarpenter
Perry on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/perrycarpenter.bsky.social
Connect with Mason:
Mason on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mason-amadeus-a853a7242/
Mason on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/pregnantsonic.com
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Oct 7, 2024 • 32min
FAIK Miniseries (sneak peek) | Chapter 3: The Mindset and Tools of a Digital Manipulator
This is Part Three of a ten-part miniseries exploring Perry Carpenter's latest book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions. Each episode kicks off with a dramatized reading of the "Whispers from the Static" vignette that opens the chapter, followed by an in-depth conversation with Perry Carpenter and Mason Amadeus, where they unpack the chapter's themes and real-world implications.Get the Book (Amazon Associate Link): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated DeceptionsCheck out the website for more info: https://thisbookisfaik.comVoice credits for the opening "Whispers from the Static": Kayla Temshiv This is the last episode we are publishing in this feed. If you enjoy The FAIK Files, be sure to follow the show's feed so you don't miss out on future episodes.Links to the show:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-faik-files-decoding-ai-deception/id1771521321
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7CGEktxUQAbgwQaWB922Ip?si=9-NazIazRgKCDXudoGwAdQ
All others: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2409237
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Sep 30, 2024 • 30min
FAIK Miniseries (sneak peek) | Chapter 2: New Frontiers of Deception: AI and Synthetic Media
This is Part Two of a ten-part miniseries exploring Perry Carpenter's latest book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions. Each episode kicks off with a dramatized reading of the "Whispers from the Static" vignette that opens the chapter, followed by an in-depth conversation with Perry Carpenter and Mason Amadeus, where they unpack the chapter's themes and real-world implications. Get the Book (Amazon Associate Link): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated DeceptionsCheck out the website for more info: https://thisbookisfaik.comWe'll be posting episodes 1 through 3 on this feed. If you enjoy The FAIK Files, be sure to follow the show's feed so you don't miss out on future episodes.Links to the show:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-faik-files-decoding-ai-deception/id1771521321
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7CGEktxUQAbgwQaWB922Ip?si=9-NazIazRgKCDXudoGwAdQ
All others: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2409237
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Sep 30, 2024 • 32min
FAIK Miniseries (sneak peek) | Chapter 1: The Eternal Battle for the Mind
This is Part One of a ten-part miniseries exploring Perry Carpenter's latest book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions. Each episode kicks off with a dramatized reading of the "Whispers from the Static" vignette that opens the chapter, followed by an in-depth conversation with Perry Carpenter and Mason Amadeus, where they unpack the chapter's themes and real-world implications. Get the Book (Amazon Associate Link): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated DeceptionsCheck out the website for more info: https://thisbookisfaik.comWe'll be posting episodes 1 through 3 on this feed. If you enjoy The FAIK Files, be sure to follow the show's feed so you don't miss out on future episodes.Links to the show:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-faik-files-decoding-ai-deception/id1771521321
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7CGEktxUQAbgwQaWB922Ip?si=9-NazIazRgKCDXudoGwAdQ
All others: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2409237
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Sep 17, 2024 • 57min
Digital Mindhunters
Dr. Bilyana Lilly, an expert in cybersecurity and disinformation, dives into the intersection of AI and misinformation in this engaging discussion. She shares insights from her upcoming book, exploring how AI amplifies disinformation and the challenges of navigating cyber threats. Lilly emphasizes the need for media literacy and community awareness to combat these issues. The conversation also highlights the psychological complexities of adversaries and the role of storytelling in raising awareness about digital deception. A must-listen for anyone intrigued by the digital landscape!

Sep 3, 2024 • 56min
Let's talk Social Engineering
In this episode, Perry catches-up with Stephanie (Snow) & JC Carruthers. They talk about social engineering, the DEFCON Social Engineering Community / Village, and share their favorite (and most embarrassing) social engineering stories. Perry also gives a quick update on his recent exploits entering an AI chatbot into the Social Engineering Village CTF, speaking at the DEFCON AI Village, and the release of his new book, FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions.Guests:
Stephanie (Snow) Carruthers: (LinkedIn) (Twitter)
JC Carruthers: (LinkedIn) (Twitter)
References:
Social Engineering Community website
SE Community twitter page
SE Community John Henry competition (where Perry's AI bot was able to compete!)
[PROVED] Unsuspecting Call Recipients Are Super Vulnerable to AI Vishing
Perry's LinkedIn post talking about the competition results
Perry's Books (Amazon Associate Links)
NEW BOOK (Oct 1, 2024): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions
Book website: https://thisbookisfaik.com
Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors, by Perry Carpenter
The Security Culture Playbook: An Executive Guide To Reducing Risk and Developing Your Human Defense Layer by Perry Carpenter & Kai Roer
Production Credits:Music and Sound Effects by Blue Dot Sessions, Envato Elements, & Storyblocks.Artwork by Chris Machowski @ https://www.RansomWear.net/ and Mia Rune @ https://www.MiaRune.com.8th Layer Insights theme music composed and performed by Marcos Moscat @ https://www.GameMusicTown.com/Want to get in touch with Perry? Here's how:
LinkedIn
Twitter
Instagram
Email: perry [at] 8thLayerMedia [dot] com
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Jul 30, 2024 • 53min
What About Ethics?
On this episode, Perry gets to sit down with Ed Skoudis to discuss the simplicity and complexities of cybersecurity ethics. Ed's new book is The Code of Honor: Embracing Ethics in Cybersecurity. Guest:Ed Skoudis (LinkedIn) (Twitter) (Website)Books and References:
The Code of Honor: Embracing Ethics in Cybersecurity, by Paul J. Maurer and Ed Skoudis
The Mysterious Case of Rudolf Diesel: Genius, Power, and Deception on the Eve of World War I, by Douglas Brunt
The Cybersecurity Code (downloadable): https://www.montreat.edu/cybersecurity-code/
The Code of Honor book page
YouTube Video: Inside SANS Holiday Hack Challenge 2023 | Host: Ed Skoudis | August 29, 2023
Perry's Books (Amazon Associate Links)
NEW BOOK (Oct 1, 2024): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions
Book website: https://thisbookisfaik.com
Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors, by Perry Carpenter
The Security Culture Playbook: An Executive Guide To Reducing Risk and Developing Your Human Defense Layer by Perry Carpenter & Kai Roer
Production Credits:Music and Sound Effects by Blue Dot Sessions, Envato Elements, & Storyblocks.Artwork by Chris Machowski @ https://www.RansomWear.net/ and Mia Rune @ https://www.MiaRune.com.8th Layer Insights theme music composed and performed by Marcos Moscat @ https://www.GameMusicTown.com/Want to get in touch with Perry? Here's how:
LinkedIn
Twitter
Instagram
Email: perry [at] 8thLayerMedia [dot] com
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Jul 9, 2024 • 48min
Can You Really Tell if Something is Written by an AI?
On this episode, Perry gets to sit down with Jon Gillham. Jon is the founder and CEO of Originality.ai -- an AI content detection platform designed to help website owners, content marketers, writers and publishers hit 'publish' with integrity in the world of generative AI.In this interview, we get the lowdown on how AI content detection works, what it is good at, and where some of the current limits are.Guest:Jon Gillham (LinkedIn) (Twitter) (Website)Books and References:
AI Content Detector Accuracy Review + Open Source Dataset and Research Tool, Originality.ai blog post
Is Using AI Tools the Same as Plagiarizing? A Legal Perspective, Originality.ai blog post
Empirical Study of AI-Generated Text Detection — Results as per An Empirical Study of AI-Generated Text Detection Tools, Originality.ai blog post
A Survey on LLM-Generated Text Detection: Necessity, Methods, and Future Directions
LLM-as-a-Coauthor: The Challenges of Detecting LLM-Human Mixcase
Perry's Books (Amazon Associate Links)
NEW BOOK (Oct 1, 2024): FAIK: A Practical Guide to Living in a World of Deepfakes, Disinformation, and AI-Generated Deceptions
Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors, by Perry Carpenter
The Security Culture Playbook: An Executive Guide To Reducing Risk and Developing Your Human Defense Layer by Perry Carpenter & Kai Roer
Production Credits:Music and Sound Effects by Blue Dot Sessions, Envato Elements, & Storyblocks.Artwork by Chris Machowski @ https://www.RansomWear.net/ and Mia Rune @ https://www.MiaRune.com.8th Layer Insights theme music composed and performed by Marcos Moscat @ https://www.GameMusicTown.com/Want to get in touch with Perry? Here's how:
LinkedIn
Twitter
Instagram
Email: perry [at] 8thLayerMedia [dot] com
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Jun 4, 2024 • 50min
Money Laundering 101: a chat with Investigative Journalist Geoff White
On this episode, Perry gets to sit down with investigative journalist, author, and podcaster, Geoff White. They discuss Geoff's new book, "Rinsed: From Cartels to Crypto: How the Tech Industry Washes Money for the World's Deadliest Crooks", the state of global cybercrime, and (everybody's favorite topic) artificial intelligence. Guest: Geoff White (LinkedIn) (Twitter)Books and References:
Rinsed: From Cartels to Crypto: How the Tech Industry Washes Money for the World's Deadliest Crooks, by Geoff White
RinsedGPT -- Generative AI questions/answers from the book, Rinsed
The Lazarus Heist: Based on the hit podcast, by Geoff White
Crime Dot Com: From Viruses to Vote Rigging, How Hacking Went Global, by Geoff White
The Lazarus Heist podcast (BBC)
YouTube video: Three Key Types of Cybercriminals, by Geoff White
Perry's Books (Amazon Associate Links)
Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors, by Perry Carpenter
The Security Culture Playbook: An Executive Guide To Reducing Risk and Developing Your Human Defense Layer by Perry Carpenter & Kai Roer
Production Credits:Music and Sound Effects by Blue Dot Sessions, Envato Elements, & Storyblocks.Artwork by Chris Machowski @ https://www.RansomWear.net/ and Mia Rune @ https://www.MiaRune.com.8th Layer Insights theme music composed and performed by Marcos Moscat @ https://www.GameMusicTown.com/Want to get in touch with Perry? Here's how:
LinkedIn
Twitter
Instagram
Email: perry [at] 8thLayerMedia [dot] com
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May 7, 2024 • 55min
Communicating Complex Topics with Creativity and Passion
In this episode, Perry sits down with award winning cybersecurity author, George Finney to discuss his recent book, Project Zero Trust. This is a broad discussion that hits on the concepts of Zero Trust, George's approach to writing the book, his passion for storytelling, and much more.
Guest:George Finney (LinkedIn) (Website)Books and References:
Project Zero Trust: A Story about a Strategy for Aligning Security and the Business, by George Finney
Well Aware: Master the Nine Cybersecurity Habits to Protect Your Future, by George Finney
The history and evolution of zero-trust security, TechTarget
Wikipedia: Zero Trust Security Model
Perry's Books (Amazon Associate Links)
Transformational Security Awareness: What Neuroscientists, Storytellers, and Marketers Can Teach Us About Driving Secure Behaviors, by Perry Carpenter
The Security Culture Playbook: An Executive Guide To Reducing Risk and Developing Your Human Defense Layer by Perry Carpenter & Kai Roer
Production Credits:Music and Sound Effects by Blue Dot Sessions, Envato Elements, & Storyblocks.Artwork by Chris Machowski @ https://www.RansomWear.net/ and Mia Rune @ https://www.MiaRune.com.8th Layer Insights theme music composed and performed by Marcos Moscat @ https://www.GameMusicTown.com/Want to get in touch with Perry? Here's how:
LinkedIn
Twitter
Instagram
Email: perry [at] 8thLayerMedia [dot] com
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