The Leadership Podcast

Jay Goldman is a New York Times best-selling author of "The Decoded Company." He is also the CEO and Co-founder of Sensei Labs - focused on technology, design, and the art of leadership. The conversation in this episode covers decision-making, connections, the six values of Sensei culture, and putting customers first. Jay urges leaders to have regular conversations with employees and use data to understand them better. Jay considers empathy to be the most important trait of a leader and he elaborates on its importance.https://bit.ly/TLP-342 Key Takeaways [2:34] Jay has a 13-year-old daughter and a 12-year-old son. For Jay, parenting and leadership are very close; he uses some of the same principles with his children and in his one-on-one work discussions. [3:39] The book, The Decoded Company, was published in 2014. In the years since then, the world has changed a lot. Much of the book is still relevant, but in hindsight, Jay says they should have put more emphasis on culture. It should be a headline item. That has become more true as Jay continues to grow Sensei Labs, which was spun out of Klick to capitalize on the technology they talk about in the book. [5:34] Jay compares a company's culture to a garden. The leader makes sure the garden gets enough sunlight, water, and nutrients, weeds the garden and protects it from pests. Leaders can't directly make the garden grow. They can create all the right conditions for it to grow. If you want certain behaviors, create an environment that encourages those behaviors. It's dangerous to try to fix people. [8:16] There are more small decisions than big decisions. Your physical space in an office has a big impact on culture. It's hard to radically change your office space. Day-to-day moments can have just as big an impact. There are many times more of them than there are of the big decisions. Big decisions need to be followed up with lots of small decisions. [10:52] When COVID-19 hit, Sensei Labs was still within the offices of their parent company, Klick. Klick allowed them to stop paying rent, which was very helpful for a small business. In the summer of 2021, as COVID-19 was letting up, Sensei Labs discussed as a team if they needed to take an office. The Toronto group was missing the moments of connectivity, collaboration, and having lunch together. [12:13] After funding, Sensei Labs had almost doubled in size. International associates had never worked in an office together but they wanted the connection shared by the Toronto group. Sensei Group built an office with collaboration rooms but no private offices, desks for everyone there on a day, and multi-use spaces for large meetings and holiday parties. They are not mandating people back to the office. [15:04] Sensei Labs doesn't say "remote" for people outside the office. Teams pick a day to come in together. They use Teams calls for those who cannot attend that day. They also use Teams calls on cross-team meetings or customer meetings. All meeting rooms are set up for Teams, with good microphones, audio, cameras, and video. Sensei Labs is all hybrid, rather than divided into tiers. [16:21] All "hoteling" desks have a proper monitor and Logitech webcam. There is an events space with a screen that rolls down from the ceiling, a webcam, a projector, and an audio system, so people not present can have the full experience of partaking in the event. There are multiple presenters, some in the building, and some participating by video. All these things help integrate the teams. [17:30] All of that said, you can't replace the in-person experience, or going out for a coffee or lunch together. Jay loves to see a cross-functional group who have carried in lunch and are eating together. Those are collisions, as Steve Jobs called them, where you get an exchange of ideas and connections between different teams that wouldn't otherwise form. Those are hard to recreate on Teams or Slack. [18:50] At Sensei Labs, there is a big emphasis on helping each other in a culture where that's rewarded and recognized. The founders were intentional when they carved Sensei Labs out of Klick to build a culture that was unique to Sensei Labs, built around Enterprise SaaS, customers, and partners. [20:28] As they started, they came up with six values that represent Sensei culture: being Selfless, being Empathetic, being Nimble, being Skilled, being Entrepreneurial, and having Integrity. They built everything they do on the people side of the business around those Sensei values. They have a matrix of every role in the organization with the values, and observable behaviors expected from each role. [21:23] The matrix also shows how to get promoted in terms of what you should be thinking about in observable behaviors for each of the Sensei values for any role. When Sensei Labs does promotions, they evaluate on the Sensei values. The Sensei values are part of their open recognition channel in Teams. Everyone can post recognitions of others and tag them with Sensei values. It's all intentional. [22:32] Over the last year, Sensei Labs has strongly emphasized CARE requests. Sensei President Benji Nadler came up with the acronym CARE, for Customers Are Really Everything, to reorient everyone's thinking about customer requests to make them the highest priority. [24:08] An organization that does not give its people regular feedback about results is doing its people a disservice and will not get the results that it wants. In The Decoded Company, there is the Rule of Five Degrees. If you take a boat across a lake, and you're five degrees off course at the start, it's an easy correction then. But five degrees off course on the other side of the lake could be miles out of the way. [25:05] If an organization gives performance reviews annually, it's already crossed the lake. Regular five-degree course corrections throughout the year could prevent an employee from being miles off course at the performance review. Regular feedback corrects behaviors and bridges the gap between behaviors. [26:18] As a privately-held company, Sensei Labs is free to make long-term decisions. Jay picks values even over performance because, in the end, that will have the biggest impact on the business. Staying true to those values will affect whom they hire. [28:14] Sensei Labs operates as a separate organization from Klick and the Sensei teams do not work on Klick's projects. Sensei is proudly part of the Klick group of companies but there is no need for a tight alignment between the two. There is an overlap in how the two companies express and define their values. Klick has a pyramid of cultural values with the bottom level being their foundational values. [29:00] Jay describes how the layers of the Klick value pyramid match the key inflection points of career advancement. Sensei used the best parts of the Klick values in developing the Sensei Labs values acronym. Sensei looks at the key inflection points of the first time an individual contributor becomes a leader, and the first time a leader becomes a leader of leaders. Those points require different thinking. [30:54] Leadership has a science component. The science of leadership goes back to Taylorism measuring productivity with a stopwatch and optimizing the Ford assembly lines. There's the possible Hawthorne effect of performance rising because it is measured. The science is how you use the data within an organization to optimize it for talent, centricity, and engagement, the premise of Decoded. [31:48] Jay explains how leadership is an art, requiring a high degree of empathy. You need to be able to understand the individual members of your team and what drives them. Jay values empathy as the most important trait of leadership. Empathy requires engagement, conversations, and knowing each other. It requires some vulnerable moments that establish psychological safety between you and your team. [34:30] People learned hard skills in school and had to figure out the soft skills for themselves. It dodges the responsibility for teaching the part of leadership that is probably more impactful. Jay explores the mistake technology companies often make in promoting engineers into managerial roles with no EQ or managerial skills. That mistake removes a skilled individual contributor and installs an ineffectual leader. [36:54] Instead, create a pathway that allows skilled engineers to remain in their craft but to become leaders, take on more responsibility, and make more money. Both Sensei Labs and Klick have parallel tracks for people leadership and craft leadership. As individuals advance, their time is leveraged so that an hour of their time creates more than an hour of value for the organization. [39:54] The use of Big Data has changed immensely since Decoded was published. The principle is the same, but if they wrote the book today, their take would be very different. Data is more prevalent in business today. [40:20] Most businesses today spend huge amounts on data to understand their customers. They do not use any of the same resources to understand their people. Jay argues that you will have a higher leverage effect by engaging in your team, creating a virtuous cycle of having the best talent on your teams, more customer happiness, more revenue, and hiring even more skilled team members. [42:03] There is a difference between ambient data and self-reported data. Self-reported data is always biased. Teams constantly use tools and that creates a digital body language about what they are working on and who they're connected with and other factors. That data is available through analysis. Jay calls this data a sixth sense. Have guidelines about using the data, so it's not uncomfortable. [43:35] There has been good research on 16 indicators that somebody may be thinking about quitting their job. If you could look across those 16 relative attributes of an employee, "Jim", you could see changes that indicate that something has changed in "Jim's" life. Measuring a baseline and looking ad deviations can be telling. How do you react if you suspect "Jim" is thinking of leaving? [45:18] If "Jim," is a valued member of your team, and you want to make sure that "Jim" is not a flight risk, this might be an indicator to have a conversation. "Just checking in and making sure that everything's OK. How are you feeling? Can we talk about a career progression or a new project for you to take on?" If you are happy that "Jim" is thinking of leaving, you might start looking at replacements! [46:13] You've got five senses. If you can use data as a sixth sense, to augment those five with an extra set of analytic abilities to help you make better decisions faster, that leads to a better outcome. [47:40] Can this ambient data be hacked? Jay would hope people worked in an environment where they didn't have to prompt the conversation by wearing an interview suit to work. Every organization is a collection of people. Anytime you have a collection of people, you end up with norms and values, whether by design or default. Sometimes you may find shortcuts to get to a desired conversation. [48:38] Mark Raheja taught Jay a management hack in the form of the question, "Is it safe to try?" In most organizations the default is safety. Proposing anything radical means a fight to get to the point of experimenting with it because you are triggering the organization's autoimmune system. But ask people to come up with a reason it's not safe to try it. If they cannot, then go ahead with the experiment. [51:19] After six months in his first job out of school at IBM, Jay asked about promotions. His manager told him everybody gets promoted on their first and second anniversary, and in the third year, promotions are earned by merit. Jay recalls, "I started looking for a job that day. And to me, that is the oldest-school thought pattern around what management looks like." [55:19] Closing quote: Remember, "Leadership is unlocking people's potential to become better." — Bill Bradley Quotable Quotes "Often in a parenting conversation with one of the kids, I'm repeating things that I might have recently said in a one-on-one to someone on my team, and probably more often, in one-on-ones, I find myself repeating things I've said in parenting moments." "It starts to get difficult when you start to say, 'I want behaviors that I don't see and my options are either to replace people or fix people,' and I think that's a dangerous path." "Your physical space in an office environment has a big impact on culture. … It's harder to … radically change the configuration of it. … All those day-to-day moments can have just as big an impact and there are many times more of them than there are of the big decisions." "In many ways, we are the trailblazers who are out ahead, thinking about culture, thinking about people, and thinking about leadership. And then, there are other places where we're happy to take a back seat and one of those places is mandating people back to the office." "We have a matrix of every role in the organization and all of the values … that everyone has access to. So you can look up any role, and any value, and see what the observable behaviors are that we expect out of that role as well as where you might get promoted to." "We have an open recognition channel in Teams. Everyone can post recognitions of each other. They tag them with some of the values. … At our Town Hall a couple of weeks ago, we celebrated the people who've had the most recognition posts for each of the values." "Being selfless is about being there for each other and helping each other out and helping our customers and partners as well. These are both internal and external." "We have the luxury of being able to make long-term decisions when we can and so I would pick values even over performance because, in the end, that is what is going to have the biggest impact on the business. Staying true to those values will affect who you hire." "We have always looked at the key inflection points of the first time an individual contributor becomes a leader and then the first time they become a leader of leaders. Those are two points at which you have to think very differently about … your success." "Your best engineers are at least 10 times as good as your worst engineers." "Anytime you have a collection of people, you end up with norms in that group. You end up with cultural values, whether by design or default." "In most organizations, the default energy is toward 'No" and toward safety. … If you propose something radical and new, in almost every organization, you are going to have to fight a fight to get to the point where you can even experiment with this. … Ask 'Is it safe to try?'" "I do think the tech industry has lots of problems, but it also has lots of great things about it." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Jay Goldman The Decoded Company: Know Your Talent Better Than You Know Your Customers, by Leerom Segal, Aaron Goldstein, Jay Goldman, and Rahaf Harfoush Forbes Technology Council Sensei Labs Klick Microsoft Teams Logitech Software as a Service (SaaS) Benji Nadler Mark Raheja Taylorism (Scientific management) Hawthorne Effect Daniel Pink Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are, by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz Excellent Sheep: The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life, by Bill Dereseiwicz Chat GBT IBM

Jeremy Foster is the Chief Financial Officer of Austin-based Talroo.com, the data-driven job and hiring advertising platform that helps businesses reach the candidates they need to build their essential workforce. Jeremy shares insights into the key indicators of business valuation: 1) The necessity of leaders knowing the language of finance; and 2) The differences between startups, growth companies, and mature companies. He covers why alignment of the stakeholders is important for a company's successful scaling, and when to use blitzscaling, if at all. He explains analytics and shares examples from his past and present work, in an educational overview of the interplay between finance, data and decision-making. https://bit.ly/TLP-341 Key Takeaways [2:14] Jeremy started in marketing and then ended up leading operations and retail banking for a 15-branch community bank in New Mexico and West Texas. His background was not in accounting or finance. That changes how Jeremy tends to approach the numbers. [2:41] Jeremy explains how he evaluates a business by looking at three numbers: the lifetime value of the customers, the customer acquisition cost, and the total addressable market. Marketing is a key component of each of those numbers. [4:36] Jeremy has worked with startups and scaling businesses. He's seen a broad spread of financial knowledge within company leadership. Sometimes an executive team has problems because of their different levels of understanding. Do you understand GAAP and income statements? What are revenue, gross profit, and EBITDA; the basic terminology. Some executive teams don't know these terms. [5:33] The next big question is which financial statement is the most important to look at, the cash flow or the P&L statement? It depends on whether you are a startup or an established company. There's a transition the executive team needs to make from a stage of perpetually raising capital to a stage of starting to generate capital and focus on unit economics, and understanding sound investments. [7:51] Super-mature businesses are balance-sheet-driven. These are companies like banks, oil, and gas, that have balance sheet sensitivities they need to pay attention to. [8:06] Get an executive team all on the same page with a basic background in finances and then focus that alignment in education first on whichever financial statement is the most important to the business, according to what stage your business is in. [9:27] There's an element of leadership that's getting people to follow you and there's an element of knowing what the right direction to go is. The math of business is useful in helping you figure out what the right direction is. [9:45] The first step in identifying the right direction can be self-study. Sometimes it's about understanding the terminology. Sometimes, it's about looking at your business and thinking about what's most important for your business. The easiest way to do that is to rely on the ability to identify a bottleneck. What's the most immediate limitation on the business? Is it sales, product, or capital? [10:58] The first thing is to recognize the most immediate pain point in your business. Decompose it. Understand what the most important numbers are in that pain point. You don't have to understand all the numbers in the business at once. You can learn over time. Start by figuring out what's most important. [11:59] Jeremy explains scaling and growth. A scaling business differs from a startup in that as the business gets bigger, it juggles an increasing number of variables. Part of becoming a scaling business is looking in advance. If you want 100 new customers how much staff do you need to onboard new and maintain existing customers? Look for limitations and plan to remove them before you hit them. [14:06] Past guest Margaret Heffernan identified planning for limitations as adaptability. Jeremy notes that the amount of flexibility you have is contingent upon your availability of capital. Blitzscaling has its drawbacks. If you hire too much staff, then when the capital is drained, you will have massive layoffs and you may lay off the wrong people if you don't know the metrics. That puts you in a death cycle. [15:44] Growth can be self-financed or it can come at the cost of additional capital. Blitzscaling is valid in winner-take-all markets. An example of this is Netflix. Their model is streaming video, so they had to grab as many customers as possible before others captured the market. They had to raise capital through growth and figure out how to make customers sticky. They enabled streaming through Xbox. [16:54] Often, blitzscaling is not the right approach, especially if you raise too much capital at too low of a valuation, which may hurt your investors. Prove profitability first and then raise capital at a higher multiple a little bit later. [18:56] Marketing analytics is used by companies like Facebook to choose what ad to show. Talroo uses analytics to identify the right job candidates for employers that are looking to hire essential workers. The analytics calculate the likelihoods that a job seeker will: apply for a job, be a good fit for the job, and be selected by the employer. With the right characteristics, you can start to reach the right people. [19:37] There's a space for analytics in most businesses. With analytics, you will gain a level of additional insight into what your team needs, what your customers need, and what your shareholders need. Understanding where those numbers that matter to you are is where analytics starts. Jeremy gives an example of how his former employer, Kasasa, used analytics and rewards to drive consumer behavior. [22:45] Analytics work best if you know what factors drive your business. It can also help you figure out specifics of what drives your business. Jeremy cites the problems with having too many dashboards or too few dashboards and the benefits of having an appropriate number of dashboards. Analytics will tell you where to go next if you pay attention, but you have to be thoughtful about what you're building. [26:28] When you talk about pricing, ask yourself if you are reaching the combination of the right targets that are willing and able to pay that price and if that is price sufficient for you to make money after you've acquired those customers. And are there enough of them to grow the business well? Jeremy shares some facts about the cost of acquiring customers, their lifetime value, and marketing cycles. [28:20] A business is considered investable or backable by private equity or venture capital if it is going to make three times as much as it cost to pick up that customer. … What sometimes VCs and PE groups don't pay attention to is how fast that cycles. Having multiple cycles in a year multiplies the profit. [29:14] More about pricing: Sometimes getting extra traction on the sales front isn't about charging less, sometimes you can deliver more value. Sometimes all you have to do is take risk away. Jeremy relates a Kasasa case study. When you de-risk a transaction, sales friction goes away. [33:16] As companies scale, they have to broaden their understanding of their stakeholders. What do the customers want? How do you deliver value? It is easier to work with private equity and venture capital if they've seen the metrics. To be a partner, they can't operate blindly; they need transparency. If you skip wage increases, consider the customer churn that will follow as employees leave. [35:53] Jeremy shares some aspects of conversations that were held at Kasasa, post-acquisition. They were discussing how to balance their white-label segment against their branded segment. They needed to understand the concerns of customers moving from one to the other as they navigated early conversations with the private equity group. [37:00] The PE group was focused on long-term growth. They were the right partners. It's important to have the right partners with the same objectives as the company leadership and previous owners who are investing. You want that alignment. If the idea is revenue growth at any cost, everybody better agree on that. If the alignment is to grow profitability x% year over year, everybody needs to be aligned. [39:01] Talroo sees a very high level of demand for essential workers. That's a strong vertical for Talroo. Jeremy doesn't foresee a full-fledged labor recession. There is softening in tech sectors in terms of need for workers, which Jeremy attributes to earlier overhiring of workers by a lot of large businesses. Most of the pressures in the labor economy are still present. There are a lot of people retiring or recently retired. [40:19] One of the biggest problems the U.S. faces over the next decade is a shortage of labor because we've been below our replacement rate. We don't have enough workers. It's important to retain your talent, or partner with Talroo to find new talent! One of the places where analytics gets overlooked a lot is in understanding who your best performers are. Which people is it most important that you retain? [41:41] It's still going to be important to lead well the people that you have. [42:34] Jeremy has been a key part of three major restructurings in the last 13 years. It's awful for everybody involved and it should be awful. If it's not awful, something's wrong with your culture. Restructuring should be a last resort. You can sometimes avoid them by staffing the right people in the right places. Sometimes you get it wrong. [43:45] Part of leading is looking at the metrics to know when to make those decisions. Part of leading is looking at people first when you're making those decisions so that you're making the right choices. Part of leading is knowing that your team members are vital, too. You have to do what you can to provide a soft landing for the people you have to lose. Provide as much transparency as you can upfront. [46:34] Jeremy's last message for listeners: "People look at numbers and people as exclusive and they're not. They should both provide you with insight into the other. So, when you talk about the hard side of leadership and the soft side of leadership, they're both sides. There's a lot to be said for figuring out how to use them to work together, to make you stronger on both sides of that equation." [47:26] Closing quote: Remember, "Academic qualifications are important and so is financial education. They're both important and schools are forgetting one of them." — Robert Kiyosaki Quotable Quotes "When you think about what drives the value of a business, … it boils down to three things: What's the lifetime value of your customers? What's your customer acquisition cost? … and … What's the total addressable market? … [Pay attention to] those three numbers." "You want to figure out how you can build a business that's going to continue to grow without perpetual capital-raising and the perpetual dilution that comes along with it. Sometimes it can take some time for the executive team to make that transition." "If you raise too much capital at too low of a valuation, you might have hurt your investors. You might have to get really big to get the same return for your investors that you would have if you'd proven profitability and then raised at a much higher multiple a little bit later." "When you talk about pricing, … are you reaching … the right targets that are willing and able to pay that price, and is that price sufficient for you to make money after you've acquired those customers? … Are there enough of them to grow the business well?" "A business is considered investable or backable by private equity or venture capital if you're going to make three times as much as it cost you to pick up that customer off of that business. … What sometimes VCs and PE groups don't pay attention to is how fast that cycles." "It is way easier to work with private equity and venture capital if they've seen the metrics. … For the most part, venture capitalists and private equity managers are there to make money for their investors but they want to do it in partnership." "One of the biggest problems that the U.S. faces over the next decade is a shortage of labor because we've been below our replacement rate. We don't have enough workers. … It's really important to retain your talent." "You do have to balance the needs of the company against the needs of the employee. But if you can do that, then a lot of times, just operating with compassion, and some transparency and some honesty, can go a long way." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Jeremy Foster Talroo.com E&Y Entrepreneur of the Year for the Southwest Margaret Heffernan Reid Hoffman Kasasa

Mike Evans is the Founder of GrubHub, and the author of "Hangry: A Startup Journey." Mike founded GrubHub in his spare bedroom and grew it into a multi-billion dollar food delivery business that's a household name. After leaving GrubHub, he founded Fixer.com, an on-demand handyperson service focused on social impact, and providing full-time work for well-trained tradespeople. Mike shares what he learned from raising a startup to IPO, biking across America, and writing "Hangry." He believes it is necessary to create a business not just to make a profit, but to be powerful levers for social change. https://bit.ly/TLP-340 Key Takeaways [2:27] Mike loves cycling and getting around places by bike, but not quickly. After the GrubHub experience, he rode his bike across the country. Later, Mike and his wife rode across Austria. They hope to ride across another country soon with their daughter. Mike tells what he likes about electric bikes. [4:41] As GrubHub grew from a few employees to 2,500 employees over 12 years, there were two things that increased his anxiety and made it challenging to live. [5:14] The first challenge was the fact that there are a lot of competing interests: shareholders, employees, diners, and restaurants and it was hard to balance them all. There's no scenario where everybody wins 100%. There are tradeoffs. It was a tightrope walk to do. Mike started seeing the company making different choices as it grew beyond him. That was challenging to see. [6:09] The second challenge was hiring. As a business leader, you either hire your friends, or the people you hire become your friends. Sometimes you have to make decisions that are not the best outcomes for your employee-friends. When you have to let people go that you like, you cannot recover those friendships. They're gone. You can't fire somebody and then go hang out with them. [6:37] It should be hard to fire someone. You can't be good at firing people and be a good leader. It should never get easier. You should care a lot about the people you work with. The competing interests, and having to fire friends took a toll on Mike over the course of a decade. [7:53] Contentment is fleeting, especially for entrepreneurs who start from a place where "something is broken in the world and I'm really annoyed by it." Mike doesn't think contentment was ever in the cards for him. An entrepreneur has to see the world with an expectation that it could be better than it currently is, which is not a good recipe for contentment. [9:45] Mike believes it's important to have a personal definition of success that other people or factors don't define. Other people won't necessarily agree with it. Mike tells how he defined success all the way up through GrubHub's IPO. Other people told him the IPO was his success, but that wasn't Mike's definition. Your definition of success gives you a North Star for one aspect of your life, business. [11:11] You also need personal definitions of success for your relationships, family, faith community, and civic community. Then you need to do the hard step of making tradeoffs between them. Work/life balance is elusive because it's impossible to achieve. You have to make tradeoffs. The best you can do is say "I have a clear-eyed picture of what I want from a family perspective," and make choices explicitly. [12:03] If you don't choose explicitly, things happen to you instead of you making choices. That's what causes imbalance, frustration, anger, and disappointment. Your definitions of success change during your journey. As you approach your goals, the goalposts move. It's a destination and a journey. It's not one or the other. As we do hard things, we change, and therefore our goals change. [12:54] Sometimes we fail. If you're not going to be able to accomplish a goal, continuing to have it as a goal is only an exercise in frustration. Be able to say "This isn't working; I'm going to go try doing something else." Whether you succeed or fail, your goals change. Success is a larger concept; it's the accumulation of goals over decades. [13:54] Mike compares how he feels about goals today with what he might have felt at age 24. One of the themes in his book is Think Bigger. Don't set your goals low. When Mike launched GrubHub, he just wanted to pay off his student debt. He missed the opportunity to embed the value of "Do right by restaurants, no matter what," in the DNA of the company. At 24, he only wanted to make money. [14:37] If Mike had struggled at age 24 with the decision about doing right by the restaurants, there might have been a better outcome over the decades. [16:17] Starting GrubHub and taking it through the IPO involved thousands of decisions of Mike letting go. On Day 1, Mike owned 100% of GrubHub with 100% of the responsibility for it. On the day Mike kicked off on his bike ride across the country, he had 0% of the responsibility. He had a few shares in GrubHub for six more months. His hack was to give up first the thing he hated most — scanning menus! [18:14] Mike's first hire, a graphic designer to scan menus, went on to create the brand which ended up in two Super Bowl ads. He started scanning menus but had an opportunity from being in a high-growth startup. He ended up having to delegate. Once you hire your first employee, you get your first investor. Lean in on that and enjoy it! [19:31] Accepting reality is a paradox for an entrepreneur. You have to have enough arrogance to say "The world is broken, it needs to be fixed, and I'm the only person who can do it," and you have to have the humility to listen to your customers and employees about what you're doing right and wrong, and how to adjust. Arrogance and humility do not "play nice" together. Mike doesn't always get it right. [20:28] If you put a document in front of five people, they're all going to start editing it. Don't put a press release in front of anybody but the people who have the responsibility of doing the press release. One way to keep micromanagement from happening, to allow people to delegate, is don't put the work product in front of them before it's done. Don't give people editing access. [20:54] Not micromanaging starts with not being in there to edit things. Trust people to do their work. Tactical things like that help you to let go of the small decisions. [21:33] Mike's book has a humble tone, but the exclamation point at the end is, "I had a fricking IPO, folks!" Mike captures in the book the paradox of arrogance and humility needed to run a startup well. [23:18] Mike had done week-long backpacking trips and liked being out in nature. On one of those trips with his wife, he went to Grand Tetons National Park and camped. He saw people riding in on bikes and setting up tents. It was the TransAmerican Trail cross-country bike tour going through the park. Mike thought biking and carrying a pack on a rack was a way better idea than hiking with a backpack! [24:14] The bike tour sounded like a very accessible adventure. It was accessible because he did it in 90 fifty-mile bike rides, not one 4,500-mile bike ride. His first day was just 25 miles. One thing Mike learned is that it starts with the first mile. The best training for Week Two is Week One. The best training for Week One is to go slow. Don't try to eat up the miles in your first week. [24:54] Anyone physically able can ride 10 miles on a bike. You can do that and you can take lunch and you can do that again. And that can be your whole first day. You build up until you're riding 100 miles in a day. The decision for Mike was just following something he was interested in doing. He quit his job to ride his bike across the country. It was a very clear decision for his life. [26:18] Mike kept a journal of his bike ride, on MikeEvans.com. He used those notes in Hangry to write about his bike trip. The trip reinforced something for Mike: the idea that you don't do it all at once. When he looks back, yes he did a 4,500-mile bike ride. Day to day, he woke up every morning and made the decision to start pedaling a mile. [26:51] Long-haul hikers say, "Don't quit at the end of a long day. Wait till the morning, when you're fresh." A lot of people feel like quitting when they're tired. When you wake up in the morning you see you can do another day. That was true for Mike in business, as well. He kept at it because he had a bigger mission he was trying to accomplish. [28:14] Mike's purposes for his bike trip were to reflect on what he had accomplished, how he did it, and how he felt about it, and to consider what he was going to do next. That led to the creation of Fixer, the on-demand handyperson business. The handypersons are full-time employees, trained from scratch. He wanted to create a business with social benefits built-in: great employment with a path into the trades. [29:11] Mike's first decision for the bike trip was to buy a recumbent bike because he wanted to look at the horizon instead of the ground. He already had a tent. He rented a van and drove it down to Virginia Beach. One thing that helped is that the Adventure Cycling Association publishes TransAmerica Trail bike route maps so he ordered a set of maps and joined their online community to talk about the ride. [31:51] Starting a business is ugly and hard. It's filled with self-doubt and recriminations. To succeed, you have to make tough choices and a lot of people judge you for those choices. Mike also judges GrubHub and where it went after he left from the IPO and how it became a poster child for the gig economy and not great for restaurants. That is frustrating to Mike. [32:21] It felt to Mike that it was important to tell the whole story and how businesses are huge levers for social change, whether you want them to be or not. When Mike was intentional about that at GrubHub, it was beneficial for restaurants. When that intentionality left the business, it was not as good for restaurants. [32:40] Mike's goal with Hangry is to show the idea of changing the world by creating a business. He wanted to make it accessible and he wanted to elevate the importance of being intentional about creating the change you want to see in the world through the business. It's not a thing you can do after the business is done, through charity work. You have to create the business as a lever for social change. [33:21] Hangry is mostly about trying to take what Mike learned and letting other people learn from it and live their lives, whether as an entrepreneur, a business leader, or an executive in a company and do their work in such a way that the communities in which they operate benefit from what they're doing. [34:11] The book is called Hangry, so Mike isn't happy and pleasant the whole time. He's snarky about exclusionism. Silicon Valley is great at drawing circles and saying "You can't come in." Cyclists do it, too! There are lots of groups that draw a circle and say, "You're not allowed inside this circle." Mike says that Silicon Valley is particularly good at excluding anybody who's not a white male. There's a better way. [34:52] Democratizing the startup culture, democratizing the process, and demystifying the hero narrative that people use sometimes, make it more accessible to people. There's an urgency to making our world a better place for our children and grandchildren that sort of raises the bar for what success looks like at a business. It can't just be making money anymore. [36:27] The catalyst for creating Fixer.com was trying to get a handyperson and having to use "the phone app" on his phone. He wondered who uses that anymore! He started looking into it. The work that tradespeople do in the economy right now is typically great. Scheduling, communication, and billing are not done well. They're inaccessible. [37:23] It's hard for people to enter the trades unless they have an uncle or father who shows them how to do things. It continues the bias against women entering the trades. Entry-level handyperson jobs are good-paying jobs. They're also stepping stones to becoming an electrician, a plumber, a roofer, or a mason. It was the same problem he saw with food. You can't order things online and it's annoying. [37:54] He wanted to make handypersons more accessible, but he found there just aren't enough tradespeople. So he figured that by training people from scratch, they would get quality and wrap it in modern packaging. You schedule online and ask for someone to be there at 11:00 a.m. and the handyperson shows up by 11:00 a.m. They're highly trained, and they clean up after the job. [38:45] Mike uses the service himself, even though he's pretty handy. [40:00] Fixer.com has hundreds of applicants for every job position that they open. They target people who are working in food service, grocery, and retail and invite them to have a career instead of a job. Fixer.com pays people while training them. It's easy to get people on board. People in the service field don't have the flexibility to set their hours and schedule, which is hard in this job climate. [40:48] The adoption of working from home as a norm is damaging to people who don't have that flexibility and it creates a two-class society. Seventy-five percent of the people at Fixer.com are tradespeople, not office workers. At some point, they will have 10,000 tradespeople as full-time employees. Mike is concerned about issues of equity and expectations around time. [42:34] Mike explains why he picked a business model that's hard and hard to copy. It is intentional and it makes his company the competition that everyone else worries about. He's building a multi-billion dollar business that will be hard to compete with. [43:51] Mike's listener challenge: "I would love it if everybody would buy the book. … If you want the summary line, it's this idea that businesses affect the communities in which they work, and being intentional about what that impact is, is really, really important." You're going to be juggling competing priorities, but it's still useful even if you're considering a socially beneficial impact for every decision. [45:19] Closing quote: Remember, "Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work." — Daniel Burnham Quotable Quotes "I'm not like one of these fast people who are always racing along the Lake Path in Chicago. Seeing the country; getting places at 10 mph is great. … After the GrubHub experience, I rode my bike across the country." — Mike "Electric bikes are great. They really create access for people who might not otherwise physically be able to do it. And so I think they sort of democratize our bike trails. I'm a big fan of electric bikes." — Mike "It should be hard to fire people, anyway. … You can't be good at firing people and be a good leader. I think those two things are totally mutually exclusive. It should always be hard. It should never get easier. You should care a lot about the people you work with." — Mike "The difference between an entrepreneur and a miserable grump is that the entrepreneur actually does something about it. So, I'm not sure it was ever in the cards for me to be content." — Mike "[An entrepreneur] has to see the world with an expectation that it could be better than it currently is, which is not a good recipe for contentment." — Mike "I think it's really important to have an internal, personal definition of success that's not defined by some external factor." — Mike "Sometimes we fail. If you're not going to be able to accomplish a goal, continuing to have it as a goal is only an exercise in frustration and self-punishment. So being able to say, 'This isn't working, I'm going to go try something else,' is also important." — Mike "People often ask me 'What's the most strategic hire that you can do first?' … Forget that! Hire somebody to do something that's the most annoying thing to you. And then you start to get the benefit of 'I don't have to do every little thing.'" — Mike "Don't put a press release in front of anybody but the people who have the responsibility of doing the press release. One way to keep micromanagement from happening, to allow people to delegate, is don't put the work product in front of them before it's done." — Mike "The tone of the book is humble. I tried to be self-reflective in the book, but the exclamation point at the end is, 'I had a fricking IPO, folks!' which is not a humble thing. I'm kind of bragging." — Mike "Anyone physically able can ride 10 miles on a bike. You can do that and then you take lunch and you can do that again. And that can be your whole first day. And then by the time you hit the Rockies, a 100-mile day is like, 'Oh, yeah, I've been doing this for weeks!'" — Mike "There's an urgency to making our world a better place for our children and grandchildren that sort of raises the bar for what success looks like at a business. It's not just making money anymore. It can't just be that." — Mike "Picking hard business models, that are necessarily hard, to create value for customers is a really good defense against competition. What we're doing is hard and so it's hard to copy. And that's very intentional." — Mike "The thing that really sucks about competition is it's not in your control. But … you can choose to pick a business model where you have to have some grit and some hard work and some thoughtfulness and some talent to make it work. … And then you are the competition." — Mike "Businesses affect the communities in which they work, and being intentional about what that impact is, is really, really important. … it's still useful even if you can't make every decision toward a socially beneficial impact if you're considering it for every decision." — Mike Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Mike Evans MikeEvans.com GrubHub Fixer.com Hangry: A Startup Journey, by Mike Evans Race Across America (RAAM) The Appalachian Trail The Pacific Coast Trail Grand Tetons National Park TransAmerica Trail cross-country bike tour Adventure Cycling Association Blue Ocean Strategy

Mano Watsa is the President and Owner of PGC Basketball, the largest educational basketball camp in the world. PGC Basketball has taught over 125,000 players and coaches how to be leaders on and off the court. Mano brings his sports and business experiences to the podcast with stories and advice on thinking like a coach, communicating, and making a difference in people's lives. Listen to learn how to focus on the thing you can do best. "Part of the beauty of the game is your individual contributions combined with working together as a team … where five players become like a fist, not five individual fingers … and they play together as one." - Mano Watsa https://bit.ly/TLP-339 Key Takeaways [2:51] Mano's journey has been a joy, but anytime you're pursuing a vision, there are all sorts of challenges along the way, as well as opportunities. It's often the challenges that don't surface publicly. Mano has never seen a successful team or individual that has not had to overcome adversity, and he is no different. [4:20] PGC Basketball's founder, Dick DeVenzio, who played college basketball at Duke University and went on to play and teach the game across the world, created the Point Guard College with the point guard in mind. The point guard has to be the coach on the floor. They have to be able to run the show for their team and get their team to work together and play together. They have to "think the game." [5:01] PGC teaches players to be the smartest player on the floor by equipping them with how to think like a coach, how to make good decisions that lead to winning basketball, and how to lead their team. Jan and Jim recall guest Sam Walker's book, The Captain Class, on how the greatest sports teams in history have one thing in common, captains who were the coach on the floor. [6:13] Mano says PGC teaches players not only how to lead by example but to be effective communicators, inspire their teammates, hold teammates accountable, challenge them, and raise the standard for their teammates. Anyone leading a company, team, or family, is the point guard for that company, team, or family. [8:23] Jeremy Lin came to the NY Knicks and started the Linsanity era. Overnight Jeremy Lin was on the cover of nearly every magazine and was a household name as the first Asian-American in the NBA. Suddenly he's scoring 38 points against Kobe Bryant at Madison Square Garden. He had a successful 10-year NBA career. [9:08] Toward the end of Jeremy Lin's NBA career, Mano had the privilege and opportunity to support him in the realm of mindset and his approach. Mano has been inspired by Jeremy Lin's story, his passion, and his commitment to the game, giving back to the game and making a difference in the world. Jeremy Lin is now playing professionally in China. [10:18] John Wooden won 10 national championships at UCLA and was named Coach of the Century. John Wooden epitomized what it means to be a coach and make a difference in the lives of young players. Mano and his business partner at the time, Dena Evans, had the privilege once of spending a remarkable morning with Coach Wooden. They immediately wrote down all they had learned from him. [12:30] Jason Sudeikis revealed that having John Wooden's Pyramid of Success on the wall of Ted Lasso's office is purposeful. [13:30] Five players that work together can be more effective than five talented individuals who don't work together. Individual performers can significantly influence the outcome of the game, but they also depend on the performance of their teammates to determine the outcome of the game. It's a beautiful thing to see players willing to pass up a good shot for themselves for a great shot for a teammate. [15:38] Michael Jordan was the best player in the world. His teammates said they found it difficult to play with him because his standards were so high. He had competitive greatness. He was at his best when it was needed the most. It's helpful on a team to have a player that drives everyone toward winning. You need others who complement that person's nature to make sure everyone gets along. [19:30] Mano helped the Mully Children's Family organization in Kenya build a sports gymnasium. There are over 2,000 children under their care. Mano has been over there with them multiple times and loves their work. When he sees where these kids have come from and their optimism, even with what they lack, it gives Mano a perspective of gratitude and wanting to make a difference in the lives of others. [21:05] Denny Crum, former coach of the University of Louisville, was honored recently. One of his players stated that they never saw him get upset. He never yelled at his players. They called him Cool Hand Luke. He was always encouraging and supportive. He was a teacher to his team. [22:01] PGC founder Dick DeVenzio taught to use a six-to-one ratio of encouragement to constructive criticism. It's a lofty standard. As a coach or leader, it's so easy to see where others may be falling short but people thrive off encouragement. Connect with team members before correcting them. Always make deposits before you make withdrawals. As leaders and parents, think about the "bank account." [24:15] Great coaches don't try to make everything a priority. If you try to make everything a priority, nothing is a priority. You can't be great at everything, on the court or in business. But you can be great and world-class in something. You have to let some things go and focus on others. [25:02] Great coaches don't single players out unnecessarily. This goes for leaders and parents, too. Praise publicly and criticize privately. Good coaches and business leaders do a good job of not embarrassing and humiliating their people. They praise publicly and if they have to give criticism, they do so quietly and privately. [25:43] Great coaches don't hold back when they're wrong. They're willing to admit mistakes. That takes humility and vulnerability, in practice and games. Get beyond your ego. Be willing to admit you don't have it all together. [26:56] At PGC, they follow a commitment-based culture. Part of Mano's commitment statement is that he's a joyful work in progress. Accepting himself as a joyful work in progress allows Mano to admit mistakes and admit that he will always be a work in progress. [27:38] Past guest, Michael Bungay Stanier, told of a Legos bridge-building problem. Most people added pieces to solve the problem but the most expedient solution was to remove a piece. What's on your plate? What are you going to take off your plate? Mano notes that when we say "yes" to something, we say "no" to every other alternative. That helps him to be discerning about what he says "Yes" to. [29:18] Mano decided recently that if it's not a "Hell, yeah!" it's a "No." One of the mistakes Mano made in the early years of growing PGC was wanting to pursue every opportunity. In attempting to pursue every opportunity, they didn't maximize any given opportunity. Mano learned as he grew as a leader to stop good things to focus on a great thing. [31:54] As coaches or business leaders, you can't give all the encouragement that your players or staff need. To fill the gap, PGC introduced celebrations. Every staff meeting, no matter how many meetings are in a day, starts with 60 to 90 seconds of gratitude. It's an opportunity for somebody to acknowledge a thing or project that the team or an individual has done well. People encourage each other. [34:50] Mano frequently tells his staff, "If you're winning at work but losing at home, you're losing." Mano and PGC care about the staff as human beings and want them to win at home. If someone is not winning at home, their work will be compromised because everything bleeds over. When you're at home, shut off work, slow down, and be present with family. [36:04] After reading In Praise of Slowness, Mano stopped college coaching to focus on PGC. He wanted to be present for his family. Another decision he made with his family was to limit the participation of their children in sports and activities. Their highest value was in spending dinner time together as a family and playing together. They prioritized family time over competitive sports. [39:02] Mano's listener challenge: As business leaders, we must ensure that we're doing everything possible to support our employees and teams. One of the ways we can do that is by helping to ensure that they're able to bring their best possible selves to work each day. [39:24] For employees to bring the best version of themselves, they need to feel cared for, supported, and encouraged, and they need to be given space because if we're just driving them hard all the time, we're going to wear them down, especially in this world where many people just don't feel settled. We can create a good environment while pursuing goals and lofty objectives and still helping our people. [41:21] Closing quote: Remember, "Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do." — John Wooden Quotable Quotes "I've never come across a winning team, or anyone who's been highly successful in anything, that hasn't had to overcome significant adversity. And I'm certainly no different than that, in terms of adversities." — Mano "We like to think that a point guard isn't just a position on a basketball court. Somebody leading a company is the point guard of their team. A quarterback is the point guard of their football team. … If you're leading a family, you are the point guard of your family." — Mano "The point guard has to be able to influence behavior in order to get desired outcomes. They have to be able to lead and communicate effectively." — Mano "The beauty of the game [of basketball] is that five players who work together can be more effective and more successful than five talented individuals who don't work together." — Mano "In basketball, it's a small enough team that you can significantly impact the outcome of the game by your individual performance but you can't entirely impact the outcome because you have to be dependent on your teammates." — Mano "Part of the beauty of the game is your individual contributions combined with working together as a team … where five players become like a fist, not five individual fingers … and they play together as one." — Mano "There are so many life lessons that come out of the game when players are willing to put aside their individual agendas for the betterment of the team." — Mano "You need a range of diverse personalities to really make a team as effective as it can be. But to have somebody that drives winning and drives outcomes is really, really valuable." — Mano "People thrive off encouragement. No one has ever received too much appreciation or too much encouragement. And one of the principles that we teach to coaches … is connect before you correct." — Mano "Every good leader … looks for opportunities to celebrate, to acknowledge, to praise, to encourage, and appreciate far more often than they do providing any constructive criticism." — Mano "It actually builds trust when we're willing to be vulnerable when we're willing to demonstrate that level of humility. It's hard because it requires getting beyond ourselves and it requires getting beyond our ego." — Mano "One of the things I've realized, both in business and in my personal life: I just don't have it all together." — Mano "When we say 'yes' to something, we're actually saying 'no' to every other possible alternative." — Mano "If it's not a 'Hell, yeah!' it's a 'no.'" — Mano "What gets scheduled gets done." — Mano Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Mano Watsa PGC Basketball Dick DeVenzio The Captain Class: The Hidden Force That Creates the World's Greatest Teams, by Sam Walker Jeremy Lin NY Knicks John Wooden VIP's Cafe John Wooden's Pyramid of Success Ted Lasso Michael Jordan Documentary The Last Dance on Netflix Michael Jordan Phil Jackson Look: A Practical Guide for Improving Your Observational Skills, by James H. Gilmore The Mully Children's Family Denny Crum and Louisville Basketball Michael Bungay Stanier In Praise of Slowness: Challenging the Cult of Speed, by Carl Honore

Leigh Ann Rodgers is the CEO and Founder of Better Teams, and is driven to positively impact corporate culture and cultivate happy, high-performing teams. She is also the host of Leading Better Teams podcast. In this episode, Leigh Ann shares thoughts on accountability, bonding/connection, and why virtual teams require extra work to build connections. Listen in for how to build strong virtual connections! https://bit.ly/TLP-338 Key Takeaways [1:58] Leigh Ann volunteers three days a week at a local animal sanctuary for farm animals. There are pigs, horses, donkeys, goats, and cats. It's a beautiful little farm tucked into a forest. Leigh Ann feeds them and puts the hay out. It's a peaceful place. Leigh Ann does the afternoon shift. The early morning shift scoops the poop, so Leigh Ann is happy to go in the afternoon. [4:06] If members of a team are not being accountable to each other, the first thing to find out is why they are not. Leigh Ann says most of the time there is fear. It's a risky thing to hold a peer accountable. It may lead to them not liking you, retaliation, or conflict. [4:57] How do we create a culture and create trust where people want to hold each other accountable and want to be held accountable? It would be a culture where team members don't see accountability as a threat but as a way of teaming together to help everyone be the best that they can be. [6:04] One person can influence a team to a degree, depending on their status within the team. [7:17] The leader establishes the culture. The leader can tell the team that it is expected for them to have difficult conversations with each other instead of coming to the leader. It starts with the leader setting the tone and the expectation for open, candid conversation, with good intention, to help each other be their best. That requires real feedback. The leader also needs to reward that behavior. [9:55] If team members are unwilling to hold each other accountable, Leigh Ann loves the ADKAR model for changing behavior. Leigh Ann focuses on the first three aspects: Is the person Aware of their behavior? Do they Desire to change? Do they Know how to change? That's where Leigh Ann starts to figure out why a person is not willing to engage in difficult conversations. [11:50] One of the principles in Leigh Ann's Better Teams training is Readiness. The first element of Readiness is having the right equipment, tools, and resources. If you don't have those, advocate for yourself. The second element is competence and skill sets. Advocate for the competencies you need. It may involve getting a mentor. The third element is being adaptive, flexible, and agile. Can you pivot? [12:59] Leigh Ann relates being adaptive to stress levels. People are fairly adaptive but when stress levels get high, we begin to get less adaptive and flexible. When there's a lot of uncertainty, we start to crave certainty, which makes any new change feel bigger than it even may be. Recognize when your stress levels are high and advocate for ways to increase certainty so you can be flexible. [14:18] Instead of advocating for the organization to provide something for you, it is better for you to provide the tools, training, skills, and more to better yourself for the job you have or future roles. Advocating for yourself may become a barrier to doing something for yourself that is well within your capability. [15:09] Leigh Ann clarifies the difference between you managing your self-improvement and advocating for yourself to have the company provide an important solution that will benefit the company while benefiting you. What you can do without guidance or leadership, do independently. [16:38] Jan notes that past guest Kim Cameron, spoke a lot about abundance versus scarcity. As we come out of a pandemic, we hear more from our guests about abundance than scarcity. Maybe people are more open-minded than they were. Jan invites you, the listener, to connect on social media about trends you are seeing. And Jan is proposing a prize if somebody listens to all past episodes of the show! [18:11] Jan cites an HBR 1998 article on trust in the virtual team. Trust in virtual teams has been a topic for a while. [18:34] Leigh Ann says some teams are getting human connection right, and some are not doing as well. People need to feel bonded to the people they are working with. Many people miss being in the office with other people. It takes so much more effort to build a meaningful connection on a group call. When you disconnect from the call, you disconnect from the people. [19:56] Before the podcast started recording, Jan, Jim, and Leigh Ann were connected, talking about themselves. They were connecting and building rapport before starting the podcast. When meeting virtually, ask about each other. [21:30] Some individuals and teams want deeper connections and some do not. It has to be managed case by case. Leigh Ann is reading about oxytocin in the book Habits of a Happy Brain. Oxytocin makes us feel connected and bonded. It is released when you come together and start to feel that you know who people are a little bit more and you feel safe with each other. [22:43] When teams get together and do some sort of meaningful team exercise where they're really getting to know each other in a safe way and as they want to, it creates that sense of bonding that may not be there if you're just coming together running down a spreadsheet. We need to create spaces for teams to actually share what they want to about themselves and create that sense of connection. [23:13] Leigh Ann suggests building, even virtually, times for teams to come together with a little structure for teams to share and learn about each other. A simple example is to ask team members to bring with them an object that symbolizes something that they value highly. [23:50] Leigh Ann remembers someone bringing in a medal from running in a triathlon, and how running was part of her health journey. Another person brought in something that symbolized a medical challenge they had and a conversation that helped people on the team understand the person better. The team suddenly saw each other in a new dimension which made them more human to each other. [24:51] Another exercise is a DiSC® communication workshop. What are the different ways in which we like to communicate? Are you direct? Do you like to ask questions? [25:19] Doing some really meaningful team exercises like this allows people to get to know each other. Not necessarily sharing all their deep, dark family secrets, but it's a way to learn about each other and what makes people tick, and create that sense of bonding and closeness we don't get from typical business meetings. [26:18] You can get people together for celebrations. We tend to celebrate success and meeting goals. We celebrate outcomes. Dr. Carol Dweck focuses on growth mindset. How do we celebrate the effort, even if we fall short of the goal? We should celebrate growth, effort, and learning in addition to outcomes. It's also important to celebrate individual contributions and specialties each person brings. [29:04] On the farm where Leigh Ann volunteers, each of the 25 volunteers brings something unique. One volunteer loves to paint. She painted sayings all over the farm and created the farm calendar. One volunteer is meticulous with order and structure. It's important to celebrate the unique contributions of each person on your team. That makes them feel special and increases their serotonin, by the way. [30:32] Leigh Ann tells how she beat the doldrums. Although she loves what she does, she noticed last year she was getting "the blahs." She had to do some soul-searching to figure it out. She had stopped learning and growing and needed some new things to play into her strengths. She did a lot of learning and coaching with people, reading, and writing that helped her energize again. She got curious! [32:40] Jan and Jim noticed that at the beginning of the pandemic, leaders were energized by the crisis. After 18 months, the same leaders were fired. They couldn't react anymore, they had to step back and think. They had to be proactive. We're still in that stage, where people are planning and budgeting and projecting what will happen. Jan directs people to what they value. [33:33] Leigh Ann often asks people to ask themselves "What do you want?" and "What do you need?" That's the beginning to find out how you get to that. [34:23] Leigh Ann's listener challenge: Put pen to paper, think about, and first ask yourself, what do you want and what do you need? If you're not sure, grab a coach to help you think that through. Do some self-reflection and figure it out. Second, ask how you get out of your way. Third, ask how you prioritize and plan to get there. Leigh Ann has sessions starting in January that can help you through this. [36:13] Closing quote: Remember, "Individual commitment to a group effort — that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work." — Vince Lombardi Quotable Quotes "How do we create a culture and create trust where people want to hold each other accountable and want to be held accountable? And they don't see it as a threat. They see it as a way of teaming together to help everyone be the best that they can be." — Leigh Ann "In general, people are fairly adaptive but when stress levels get really high, we begin to get less adaptive and flexible. When there's a lot of uncertainty, we start to crave certainty, which makes any new change feel bigger than it even may be." — Leigh Ann "We've got to figure out ways to create spaces for teams to actually share what they want to about themselves and create that sense of connection and bonding and I think we've got to build that in, even more than just, 'How are you doing?'" — Leigh Ann "Doing some really meaningful team exercises … allows people to get to know each other. And not necessarily for sharing all their deep, dark family secrets, but it's a way to learn about each other and what makes people tick, and create that sense of bonding." — Leigh Ann "Take time to put pen to paper and think about what you want and what you need. … And if you're really not sure, grab a coach. A coach can help you think that through, as well, but do some self-reflection and figure that out." — Leigh Ann Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Leigh Ann Rodgers Better Teams Team Consultant Academy Leading Better Teams podcast Change management (including ADKAR) Kim Cameron Organization — Trust in Virtual Teams, HBR Habits of a Happy Brain: Retrain Your Brain to Boost Your Serotonin, Dopamine, Oxytocin, & Endorphin Levels, by Loretta Graziano Breuning DiSC® Carol Dweck, Ph.D.

Jason Field is an Executive Coach, Outdoor Professional, Expedition Leader, and Past President and CEO of W.L. Gore & Associates. He's a board member, an entrepreneur, and a veterinarian. His focus is to develop great leaders to be force multipliers for their teams. The discussion covers a team's responsibility, decision-making, the principles of problem-solving, and the role of process to obtain and maintain focus on the customer. The discussion also includes insights from Jason on his role as a guide for hikes into the Grand Canyon. Jason encourages you to work hard, follow your interests, and chase experiences. https://bit.ly/TLP-337 Key Takeaways [2:43] Jason has been married for 16 years. His son just turned 14 and is starting to surpass Jason in capability in just about everything they do together. [5:05] Adaptability and creative thinking are desirable attributes in many organizations but may be in tension with process and structure. Adaptability and creative thinking are behavioral expressions of a culture. These traits are not desirable in every case, such as when making suture needles, for example, that need a lot of process rigor to come out exactly the same way every time. [5:56] If adaptability and creative thinking are desired outputs, you need leadership levers like the Galbraith Star Model™. You design adaptability and creative thinking into the organization. You look at strategy, structure, processes, rewards, and people to get the behaviors of adaptability and creative thinking as outputs. [6:22] Adaptability and creative thinking go with belief systems and values. You start with the people you bring into the organization. If you bring people in who are highly rule-oriented, it's going to be hard to pull adaptability and creative thinking out. [7:30] The Gore company emphasized the power of small teams with the most knowledgeable associate taking responsibility for decision-making. Decision rights don't come from being a leader. A leader in a small team has the responsibility of facilitating a decision-making process and pointing to the most knowledgeable associates. This all requires the team to have organizational strategic clarity. [8:22] You complement small teams with process. If the idea is to be adaptable and draw upon the creative thinkers on the team, you need processes that will move relevant information to the teams in a timely manner so they can act according to the best information. [8:39] Processes should do two things: enable and expedite decision-making and mitigate risks. In the case of teams, it's mainly about expediting decision-making. [8:51] Rewards make sure you are celebrating business wins when you see teams operating in that adaptable mindset and drawing upon their creativity. [9:20] The Pairin Survey identifies people with high objective and analytical scores versus people with high intuitive and conceptual scores. Most teams are strong in objective and analytical scores for solving problems. Intuitive and conceptual scores relate to being good at understanding the root causes and seeing trends and patterns. [10:14] Having the right leader at the right time means being able to draw upon both individuals with strong analytical skills and individuals with strong intuitive skills, that can draw out insights from others, depending on the problem or opportunity that's being presented. [10:58] Jim points out how Jason had clarified an assumption in the first topic of adaptability and creative thinking: Are they desirable in every scenario? Then Jason talked about when they are not helpful and when you need them. How do we encourage people to ask the right questions and clarify their assumptions? [11:53] Jason tells how active listening works for him. He suggests that it's a powerful thing for leaders to step back and ask themselves what an individual is trying to get across to them and ask the right questions and get the right assumptions on the table as they engage in problem-solving. [13:07] When Jason has an employee engagement, he is trying to inspire them while deriving information for himself. It's a two-way street. For engaging people, first, demonstrate an interest in what that individual or team is doing. Draw people to the higher purpose of the strategy of the organization. Demonstrate that you care about them. [14:20] Jason and Jim role-play a conversation. Jim is an engineer working on a product development team and Jason is an executive who pops into the office and asks what Jim's working on. As they talk, Jason shows interest, asks follow-up questions, points to organizational strategy and tying to the customer, uses active listening, adds personal encouragement, and offers help for resources. [17:28] Deconstructing the role-play, the leader makes sure the person knows the leader is listening by repeating and validating what the person says, taps into the personal impact of how the person feels, and how the leader can help. These things are attributes of an energizing discussion. The leader asks how the person knows they are being successful, looking at their place in the organization. [19:20] The best way to inculcate the core values into the organization is to demonstrate them. You've got to walk the talk. Jason says that it's a competitive advantage to being a purpose-driven organization that's incorporated its values into the fabric of its operation. Jason leans pretty hard on that type of work. This assumes you've done the hard work to identify values that are true to the organization. [20:37] When you have your organizational values, incorporate them into your mission, vision, and strategy. Those are the pillars upon which your organization's direction is built. Then draw on those components and demonstrate the values in your products, services, and decision-making frameworks in the organization. At the end of the day, those values characterize your brand. [21:59] Integrity is one value Jason sees a lot. Integrity may be subject to interpretation. Integrity has a dependence upon the values that sit behind it. Make sure you know how your key stakeholders are interpreting integrity. Military veterans often say integrity is choosing the hard right vs. the easy wrong. [23:55] When the board and leadership align with the core values and demonstrate them, that brings alignment around the value of integrity. Brand strategist Tom Storey told Jason that value is "A promise made and kept by the entire organization and experienced by our customers." [24:39] Keep those values front and center in your decisions so you create experiences that reinforce them. Celebrate the individuals, teams, and products that demonstrate the values you hold dear. That's how you start to embed those values into organizations. [26:25] Jason shared his thoughts about personal responsibility. Can it be taught? There is a "nurture" component in surrounding people with others that demonstrate accountability and commitment to an outcome. The peer environment might be the strongest driver of personal accountability. The Special Forces environment creates a very high expectation of dependency on one another. [27:30] Leaders can draw out that discretionary effort in a way that's rewarding to the individual. Use a rewards system that addresses various levels in Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The financial component can elevate people to a limited degree to rise to challenges. The personal recognition of catching people doing things right is energizing. Help people understand their place on the team and in the organization. [28:43] Be purpose-oriented. Show how products and services contribute to a greater good and make a difference in the world. Jason's favorite rewards system is giving people the freedom to operate individually, drawing on their strengths to make a difference in the organization. [30:23] There are individual incentives and team incentives that can be used to encourage performance. Jason leans toward understanding what you are trying to create and whether you are relying heavily on team-based outcomes or you need individuals to get into the lab and grind away toward solutions and outcomes. Jason's bias is to revert to the power of teams. But Bob Gore invented Gore-Tex individually. [31:07] You can't look past individual accomplishments and assume the team will come together and deliver a better outcome because it's a team. There are different environments and different problems that call for different solutions. To the extent you can see that, as a leader, is how you should build your incentive structure [32:08] What derails leaders? Jason says it's losing sight of the market and getting disconnected from sales. It's easy to become internally focused and pull internal levers to optimize an organization, moving away from the market and the customer. You might drive value creation in the near term but miss market signals for long-term opportunities. Optimize for the near term and Invest for the long term. [34:08] One of the most important lessons Jason learned, mid-career, as he was transitioning into product leadership was clarity of purpose and the role process plays. Jason was working in medical devices and the stakes are high in that product category and a lot of risk. The division leader went to all meetings when there was a product issue that could have a patient impact. [35:45] The division leader always brought clarity by asking what is the process telling us, and is the process benefitting us? If the process isn't giving us clarity as to what the answer might be, we probably don't have a good process in place. Jason's takeaway was the role process plays in helping to understand the root cause of what's going on. If the process isn't giving the answer, make some changes. [36:28] The final answer never comes from the product. What is all the data telling you, and how does that translate into the impact on the customer? In medical devices, of course, patients are the most important. Keep what is most important to your organization front and center in decisions when things don't go as planned. [37:30] Jason has been an outdoor enthusiast his entire life. In the past year, he started guiding in the Grand Canyon. It has been absolutely fascinating. When you're a guide in that setting, people are out of their element and hold guides in high regard. Jason hosts a picnic lunch and insists on doing all the cleaning. It sends the message that he's there to serve and a reminder of the power of service. [39:09] People hiking into the Grand Canyon have varying levels of physical fitness. The two things to be most concerned about on the hike are dehydration and heat exhaustion. You need people to be on point and listening, from the very start of the trailhead. It is very hard to keep people focused and get to where you want them to go. Pace matters. There are no easy hikes into the canyon and out. [40:18] You have to get the right feedback mechanisms in place. Verbal communication can be one of the worst ways to get feedback on a hike. You have to set up mechanisms to get guest feedback. Are they stumbling? How much water are they drinking? Jason counts water bottles. Organization leaders also have to be aware that much is non-verbal. Set up feedback mechanisms. Pay attention. [43:16] Jason offers three core elements that come together to create a high likelihood of success: Work hard, follow your interests, and chase experiences. If Jason hadn't chased the experience of a crucible with Jan, he probably wouldn't be doing outdoor leadership experiences and executive coaching now. He thanks Jan for that. It was walking the talk. [44:40] Closing quote: Remember, "There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls." — Howard Thurman Quotable Quotes "What Gore has really done well, historically, is emphasize the power of small teams. Not only small teams but, in addition, … emphasis on the most knowledgeable employee … taking responsibility for decision-making. … Decision rights don't come with being a leader." — Jason "If the idea is to be adaptable and really draw upon the creative thinkers on the team, you have to think about processes that are going to move information to those teams in a timely manner so they've got relevant information." — Jason "Depending on the problem or the opportunity that's presented, you want to be able to draw upon those individuals that have the deep analytical skills or those that can kind of characterize the problem and draw out the insights from others to orient the team." — Jason "Integrity has a dependency on all the other values that sit behind it." — Jason "Celebrate those individuals, those teams, and those products that are demonstrative of the values that you hold dear. And that's how you start to embed this into organizations." — Jason "When a leader is willing to pick up a broom or pick up trash, the message that sends to the organization is pretty cool." — Jason "A lot of times when you ask those questions, you don't always get honest answers, so you've gotta have those other cues that are feeding you information." — Jason "The hard work comes easy when the interest level is high." — Jason Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Jason Field W.L. Gore & Associates Bob Gore Gore-Tex Chris Warner Crucible Expeditions The Galbraith Star ModelTM Pairin.com Michael Simpson Tom Storey Maslow's hierarchy of needs

Mike is the author of "Leadership in Balance and Management in Balance," the founder of Crispian Consulting, and a retired Army officer. Mike shares his thoughts on balance and equilibrium, and what that means for management versus leadership. Contained in this episode is essential advice for newly-minted leaders, and a discussion on learning tools. At the end of the episode is a great "both/and" challenge! https://bit.ly/TLP-336 Key Takeaways [3:05] Mike played rugby as a Military Academy cadet. He had a lot of fun with his teammates. Rugby helped him develop into the person he is. [4:05] Jim met Mike as a keynote speaker, speaking about balance and being a fulcrum. Jim took a lot of notes. Mike defines balance for leaders and managers. It's not things being equal, it's the equilibrium of a work/life balance. Mike talks about managers spending up to 80 hours a week at work. That doesn't leave equal hours to spend with your family. When you're home, give them your undivided attention. [6:23] Mike teaches "both/and" as an alternative to the "either/or" way of looking at problems. The vast majority of things in life are not dilemmas where you must make one or the other choice. Most questions involve equilibrium or equipoise. Apply the right amount of each choice to where it balances. Mike says to be the fulcrum. Be the point on which balance is achieved. [7:49] Mike writes about four central domains in leadership: Communication, Adaptability, Focus, and Influence. You can find an equilibrium but the environment is constantly changing so your equilibrium will also change. Mike works with people to be ready for change. A key part of the model is situational awareness. What's going on in the environment that's different from your natural tendency? [10:11] Mike admits there were times as an Army officer when he should have given more direct orders. Instead of telling people why something was important to do, he needed to tell them how to do it. He didn't always recognize what the situation demanded of him so he couldn't be the fulcrum. [12:14] While doing the Audible version of his first book. Leadership in Balance, Mike realized that the four central domains have descriptive names. Communication is the Foundational Domain, upon which leadership is built. The other three domains rely on effective communication. Focus is the Purpose Domain. Adaptability is the Action Domain. Influence is the Mission Domain. [14:27] Mike's second book, Management in Balance, is out now. It covers four domains, Time, Material, Risk, and Change. [15:08] Mike addresses the mindsets of abundance and scarcity. What is your attitude about an abundance of risk, versus a scarcity of risk, or an abundance of material, versus a scarcity of material? Mike quotes former Green Beret Kevin Owens: "The most innovative people I know are poor." The conditions are the conditions, so we have to deal with the condition, whether abundance or scarcity. [16:50] Are you seeing risks that are not there? Are you not seeing risks that are present and are you becoming reckless? The balance comes into play in that as a manager you have to deal with the current condition honestly and as it exists but you have to prepare yourself and your team for that shift that is going to come. Supply chain issues are examples of shifts. Adjust to conditions as they change. [19:39] Using an Army metaphor, you need to position yourself where you can best influence the action. You might need to stand back a bit to have a wider view and receive news from outside organizations. Or you might go to the front lines to direct people who don't know what to do. That's one of the ultimate leadership calls. The same principle applies in a business context. [20:29] Being the fulcrum is creating the ability for equilibrium by managing resources and assigning tasks. Mike says ultimately, time management is task management; how you prioritize and assign tasks. That's the nexus of leadership and management. Position yourself as a leader/manager where you can do the most to create equilibrium in these areas. Be open to signals coming from the environment. [21:33] Empowerment and subordinate development consist of pushing decisions down as far as you can send them. Stan McChrystal taught MIke to get the authority down to where decisions can be made most effectively. Mike notes that Ukraine is using that model now, based on U.S. assistance from 2014. Mike asks, are you doing it well, are you doing it right, and are you doing it in a way that makes sense? [23:04] The fulcrum creates balance based on where it's positioned along the lever. You, the leader/manager create balance by how you influence, position yourself, lead, and manage in these domains access your organization. [24:28] Mike discusses newly promoted "player-coaches." Both of Mike's books are intended for new managers and also senior leaders who are responsible to promote new managers and leaders and he invites leaders to make these decisions thoughtfully and intentionally.[26:07] The first thing anyone entering into a new position needs to decide is whether they want a job or a career. Get it wrong and you will be miserable to be on the wrong path. And senior management needs to be able to look at you and see if you have leadership potential and the desire for a career. Are you willing to make the physical, emotional, and mental sacrifices that leadership requires? [29:20] Sometimes we get frustrating answers from asking the wrong questions. Sometimes our ego stands in the way of asking the better question because we don't want to know the answer. Or we overlook that we might have been wrong previously. Surround yourself with smart people. Put together a smart team with at least one person who asks, "What are we missing? What is another possibility?" [30:29] Always look for the third option. Don't let decisions be either X or Not-X. Having one more option forces you to think more deeply about the problem and how that plays out as a solution. Most of us quickly make decisions based on experience. Step back and ask some other smart people what they're seeing. Reframe the problem. Mike tells how he addressed an IED problem to improve mobility. [34:03] Remember that everything you do as a team or an individual is a performance cycle. A performance cycle has four steps: Plan, Prepare, Execute, and Review. Don't skip the Review step, especially if you succeed, because it will help you plan better for the next performance cycle. [37:21] Mike's next book focuses on management and leadership as a "both/and" proposition and will speak to executives. Mike discusses the risk to mission, the risk to people, and the risk to reputation. You have to know where those three types of risks are lurking. Manage to mitigate that risk to your people, your mission, and your reputation. Look for opportunities to find acceptable risk and grab market share. [40:43] Mike wrote the second book to define management, setting the stage for his next book, covering leadership and management. New managers always ask Mike whether management or leadership is more important. The better question is, how are they different and when do you do each? The domains for the Management/Leadership equipoise are: What, How, When, and Why? [42:45] Mike's challenge for listeners: Find the "both/and." When you think you're on the horns of a dilemma, step back for a minute and ask, "Is this really an either/or proposition, or is there some question of equilibrium that needs to be found between these competing demands?" If you do that, you may find that you are more effective and a lot happier in your role. [44:07] Closing quote: "There is no decision that we can make that doesn't come with some sort of balance or sacrifice." — Simon Sinek Quotable Quotes "A lot of people, their thoughts immediately go to things being equal; … a balanced scale. … Balance is not about things being equal. Balance is about finding equilibrium; a work/life balance." — Mike "The equilibrium comes in when you're home, giving them your undivided attention, putting your work aside, and getting involved in the things they're involved in." — Mike "The vast majority of things are a question of balance, equilibrium, equipoise: to take these things that are in contention with each other and apply the right amount of each to where it balances." — Mike "That's why the 'be the fulcrum' thing comes into play. That's my reminder to everybody that you've got to be the point on which balance, equilibrium, is achieved." — Mike "As an Army officer, … I wanted to be more indirect in how I influenced people. I was very much, 'This is what you've got to do and this is why it's important,' not, 'this is how you're going to do it.' … There were situations where I should have been more like that." — Mike "I've been asking a lot of clients lately, 'What's the most important thing that you do, and are you getting better at it every day?' And almost invariably, it boils down to their ability to communicate." — Jan "Limiting resources can make people very resilient. The most innovative people I know are poor." — Former Green Beret Kevin Owens, quoted by Mike Lerario "If you're in the retail business now, you've seen this roller coaster. You had a lot and all of a sudden, maybe people didn't have money, and then people got money and they're buying all your stuff and the supply chain gets impacted because there are 50 ships backed up." — Mike "[Speaking] as an Army guy, one of the most important lessons is that you need to position yourself where you can best influence the action. In some cases that might mean that you're standing back and you have a wider view of the battlefield." — Mike "The fulcrum creates balance based on where it's positioned along the lever. You, the leader/manager create balance by how you influence, position yourself, lead, and manage in these domains access your organization." — Mike "I'm a firm believer that, especially with decision making, you have to find a third option, always. If you're looking at the decisions as, 'I've got to do A or I've got to do B,' or 'I've got to do X or Not-X,' you're going to fail. … You have a higher probability of failure." — Mike Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Mike Lerario Crispian Consulting General Stanley McChrystal Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World, by Stanley McChrystal et. al. Leadership in Balance: THE FULCRUM-CENTRIC PLAN for Emerging and High Potential Leaders, by Mike Lerario Management in Balance: THE FULCRUM-CENTRIC PLAN for New and Reluctant Managers, by Mike Lerario Rand Corporation Audible Kevin Owens Turn the Ship Around!: A True Story of Turning Followers into Leaders, by L. David Marquet

This episode is about the importance of finding the underlying causes for today's common leadership challenges. It's about not making the mistake of treating symptoms versus the underlying root cause. Learn how curiosity can inspire and provide insight. Often, the objective, analytic thinking that propelled you to the C-suite now needs to be paired with intuition and conceptualization for you to see the trends and patterns of issues. If you're not a CEO, you can learn to think like one and increase your value to the organization. Listen to the end for the listener challenge! https://bit.ly/TLP-335 Key Takeaways [1:26] This week's topic: focusing on the problem. Jim recently talked to a client who had set a goal. The goal was a solution to a problem, for example, buying a new system that would run the company and fix everything. While talking about the solution, the client was not talking enough about the problem. Solving the problem is the goal. Does this solution, or another solution, solve the problem? [3:01] Jim thinks this is important because as consultants and coaches, Jan and Jim's job is to dig into the problem, not just provide a solution. Jim worked with Bard Press on a book, and his contact, Todd, kept reminding him to focus on the problem. Jan and Jim recently interviewed Dre Baldwin who also said to focus on the problem! So this is a timely topic. [3:47] Jan quotes guest Brian Caulfield saying, "Sell the problem, not the solution," as the most quotable quote of the podcast. When people look at problems, they often neglect to look for the root cause. They come up with an "either this or that" solution; the best solution might be "this and that." Jan refers to Peter Senge and the Fifth Discipline, using systems thinking to figure out the problem. [4:45] The Pairin Behavioral Surveys that Jan has run find that 95% of the time, people score very high in Objective-Analytical and very low in Intuitive-Conceptual. Intuitive-Conceptual is about understanding the root causes of things and being open-minded. [6:18] When Jim does sales training, he goes back to Sandler for the Dummy Curve. When you get a new salesperson, who doesn't know a lot about the product, but they're successful right away, for two reasons: They don't know enough about the product to talk about the product, so they ask a lot of questions centered around the problem. That creates an affinity with the customer. [7:48] Does the product solve the problem? No one cares how the product works if it solves the problem. Focus on the problem. When you don't know how the product works, you have no choice but to focus on the problem. You ask questions that define the problem better. If the sales force knows too much, they want to show their mastery and talk more. That ruins the sale. [8:25] The Dummy Curve is that you come in, you have success, and then you lose it the more you learn. Jim coaches leaders not to train new salespeople too much on the product. Talk to them about the problem that their product solves. Coach them on the business problems people have that invite your product and solution. Have them be more curious about those. [9:25] Jan sees this episode as emphasizing the power of the question. Jan has been coaching about coaching and asking difficult questions. A better approach to a difficult conversation is "Hey, Jim, how do you think that meeting went?" rather than "Hey, Jim, you know what you did in that meeting?" The higher up we go, we need to be better about the questions. [10:16] Jan coached someone about presenting to a high level in the organization. The presenter was rehearsing what to say to influence a decision. Jan asked, "What objections and resistances do you expect?" They discussed how answers to objections could be questions and they considered sample questions. Questions don't have power unless you're curious about the problem and the root cause. [11:40] Talk about task conflict and not personal conflict. Depersonalize the difficult conversation. Focus on the issues. What is the problem that we need to solve together? Jan brings up an example of heating service people who got to the root cause of his problem. If you understand the root cause, you can at least put a bandage on it. Without knowing the root cause, that's about all you can do. [14:47] Some reasons people are content with a bandage instead of getting to the root of the problem are that they don't have time, they don't care, competing priorities, or having so many problems crossing their desks that they don't notice how big one specific problem is. They don't have curiosity, or they have a bias toward quick action. Jan compares it to being seen by a dismissive doctor. [18:01] Jim refers to his upcoming book. The first part of the book is about diagnosing business symptoms. We sometimes mistake the symptom for the problem. Jim shares a story from the book about his father, having abdominal pain in his 60s. The doctor refused to look at the pain as the problem but recognized it as a symptom of an abdominal aortic aneurysm. She saved his life with surgery. [22:08] Jan explains the levers of change: people, incentives, structure, and process. Leaders are rewarded for being problem solvers so the incentive is to solve problems fast. At a certain point, when they start taking on high levels of responsibility, the job shifts from doing to thinking. Jan tells people to think like a designer. Look at each lever. It's not always an issue for coaching to solve. [24:25] If you're not the CEO but you want to be a valuable employee, think like a CEO. Help the CEO see what they might not be seeing. CEOs need to look at the broad performance of the organization and see the patterns, then dig and understand what's behind those patterns. Past guest, Jim Gilmore, author of Look, wrote about seeing through binoculars, field glass, and microscope. CEOs need a field glass. [26:35] People are worried about budgeting for the next year and they're all worried about low sales numbers. They're looking for things to cut from the budget instead of asking what it would take to increase their sales for the next year. Jan always asks where the assumptions behind the budget are coming from. [28:07] Jan notes that scaling means doing more with less by getting more productive and becoming more efficient. Jim asserts that the companies that don't panic during downtimes but invest wisely can grow at great paces compared to those who batten the hatches and shrink. Always seek to understand the problem before solving it. [29:30] Look at the number of companies that were created and grew prodigiously in the Great Depression. The Great Depression was awful. The tech giants of today did not panic during the dot.com bust. They doubled down and grew. There are opportunities all the time but if you're fixated on a solution, you will not see the opportunities that surround you. [30:39] Jim offers an audience challenge: Pay close attention over the week. Listen twice as much as you talk and listen for where you hear either yourself or other people so enamored with a solution that they are missing the real point of understanding the problem. If you recognize that moment, redirect the conversation; ask a question to understand. You will find a more productive outcome on the other side. [32:03] Jan reflects that Jim's audience challenge will take temperance, self-discipline, and self-awareness to understand your effect on other people. Jim and Jan invite you to get in touch with your feedback on these Jim and Jan episodes and suggestions for what subjects you would like Jim and Jan to talk about next. [33:18] Closing quote: Remember, "It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem." — Gilbert K. Chesterton Quotable Quotes "When we spend too much time talking about the solution, the trap we fall into is that we limit the possibilities for what the real solution could be because we're not spending enough time talking about the problem." — Jim "What course of action is going to be the best path toward the future?" — Jim "It goes back to the Fifth Discipline — what Peter Senge wrote about systems thinking." — Jan "I say to leaders, 'What got you here is your ability to see patterns … and make quick decisions. … But those quick decisions are based on paradigms and biases. As a high-level leader, you need to suspend that, have … an open mind, and figure out what's causing this.'" — Jan "Talk to [new salespeople] about the problem that your product solves. Coach them on the business problems people have with regard to your product and solution." "We need to talk about process and task conflict and not personal conflict." — Jim "Too many times, we look at a symptom and we don't realize — we think it's the problem but it's just the symptom and … the real business problems are masked by those symptoms." — Jim "Everybody's got blinders on." — Peter Drucker, quoted by Jan "If you're not the CEO but you want to be a really valuable employee, think like a CEO." — Jan "We all know that scaling means you're doing more with less. Not because we're working people harder but because we're getting smarter, we're getting more productive, and we're getting more efficient. Not because we're driving people like machines." — Jan "Look at the number of companies that were created and grew prodigiously in the Great Depression. … You could say times were different, but they're not." — Jim Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Interact with Jan and Jim on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram Bard Press Brian Caulfield The Fifth Discipline: The Art & Practice of The Learning Organization, by Peter M. Senge Systems Thinking PAIRIN Survey Michael Simpson Sandler Training Peter Drucker Look: A Practical Guide for Improving Your Observational Skills, by James H. Gilmore Harry Chapin

Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselopulos, the hosts of The Leadership Podcast, explore core values based on the six cardinal virtues. Follow the discussion in this important episode to be reminded how the cardinal virtues apply in life and at work, and how you and your organization can move forward by going back to the fundamentals of leadership. https://bit.ly/TLP-333 Key Takeaways [1:25] Jan and Jim have both received a lot of very positive texts about Episode 332, featuring Richie Norton, who talked about the brevity of life. Jan sees that people are planning frantically for next year. [3:05] Leaders are making sure they don't get caught up in emotions but look at the facts. Jim refers to past guest Alan Beaulieu and ITR Economics. The slowdown we're feeling is a slowdown in the rate of growth, not a recession. Slowing from 25% growth to 9% growth feels like the airbags just came on. Don't overreact. [5:20] The numbers come from our words, deeds, and our ability to work through other people. Leaders get people to do things willingly that they would not do otherwise. How we lead depends on our values. Ask what is the most important thing, the second-most important, the third-most important, and so forth. We need to prioritize what we value and translate those values into behaviors we can observe. [6:47] If we say we value integrity, what is the observable behavior that comes from that value? Is hitting the number that top priority, or are people a priority? [7:42] It doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you do. Your culture is a product of your daily decisions and how you treat people. [8:53] Jim recalls an experience from his first college internship at Glenview Tool Company. The owner, Mike Sciortino told him that a security device can't prevent all theft but it can help keep honest people honest. Jim says, as leaders, let's help people do the right thing. Let's encourage them. [11:04] Jan shares a recent airline experience where "the system" wouldn't allow the airline to fix a problem. The system should be for people! [11:40] Jan explains the six cardinal virtues: Wisdom, Courage, Humanity, Justice, Temperance, and Transcendence. Wisdom is built upon curiosity. We have to reward curiosity if we want people to be able to identify problems. Daily, use the statement, "That's a great question!" Reward questions! It's important to catch people doing right. [17:15] Take the focus of questions away from yourself and put it on the other person. Instead of saying, "I don't understand this, can you explain it to me?" say, "That's fascinating. Help me understand why you're going about it that way." [18:12] Courage gets a lot of talk these days. The best business translation of courage is honesty. Sometimes we say authentic. Jan coached a client who had been honest to their boss, but their boss just got quiet, as though wounded. If we want the truth, we need to hear it. Jim cites Choosing Courage, by Jim Detert. Courage is related to timing. Sometimes, wait for the right moment instead of blurting it out. [21:45] Jan's client recently told him that part of being courageous is not being complicit. Don't keep quiet about stuff. [22:39] Employees always have three choices about their workplace: Suck it up and deal with a toxic culture, try to change it, or leave. What do you stand for? What are you willing to compromise on, or not? It's not like there's much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. You don't have to be complicit in a toxic culture or abusive leadership. [24:40] Humanity is simple kindness or the Golden Rule. This can be hard because there's a lot of competition. There's tunnel vision. Some niceties go by the wayside. But research shows that human kindness works. Humans respond best to positive reinforcement. Humanity is a decision that doesn't depend on anyone else. Just be kind, even if people are mean to you. It's doing the right thing. [28:01] Jan tells of going from being a sergeant to being an officer. He was told, "You don't have to speak like the soldiers; you can be above that." It's a matter of respect. If you try to fit in by speaking the cool lingo, it is inauthentic. [28:58] Justice is fairness. Organizations are asking people to be fair to one another. But, in personalized leadership, you can't treat everybody the same, because of their individuality and the work function they have. People want one-on-one time with their leader. In all that, we have to be sure we're being perceived as being fair. Encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable. [33:19] Temperance is self-discipline. Without self-discipline and sacrifice, we can't tackle big goals. John Wooden taught players how to put on socks and shoes so they wouldn't get blisters. In business, we are missing so many fundamentals, such as starting and ending meetings on time and being predictable. [35:00] Jim says discipline is respect. Showing up to meetings on time is respectful of everybody's time. Discipline with personal and business goals is respect for how important those goals are. If you don't have self-discipline, you probably don't have self-respect. Discipline thrives when you have respect. If you don't have self-respect, discipline falters. [36:29] Transcendence is spirituality. In work, Jan sees it as being gracious and operating with gratitude. Jim reminds us that in the grand scheme of things, our role is small. How do you relate to the universe and other people and creatures? Barry Schwartz, in Practical Wisdom, told of janitors in a cancer care unit operating with graciousness because the patients were in great need and having a hard time. [38:19] The transcendent behavior of the janitors improved the condition of the patients, who were at their most humiliating moments. The janitors were looking at the bigger picture than cleaning up a mess. In high-performing organizations, people operate with that level of transcendence. People who win the Medal of Honor are operating with transcendence, also known as Mission, Vision, and Values. [39:20] Companies are not started for the sake of creating a great culture. A company starts because there is a market need, and they think they can help people. More people get involved and then they think about having a good company, which means having a good culture. People are tribal. The cardinal virtues are the rules to get along with our tribe and be of service to other humans in other tribes. [40:50] Things feel out of hand because we've gotten so far from the fundamentals. As you look at planning, go back and say, "Are we making this too complicated?" [42:24] Closing quote: Remember, "Courage is the most important of all the virtues because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage." — Maya Angelou Quotable Quotes "As [Richie Norton] reminded us, 'Life is short' isn't a cliché, it's true. and 'Don't defer your dreams.' Boy, that show resonated!" — Jan "We had some sectors that were growing at 25% and now they're only going to grow at 9%, so it feels like the airbags just came on because we're slowing down from 25 to 9. … The slowdown is huge but it's still a rate of growth. … Let's not overreact." — Jim "[As a leader,] you're basically saying, 'Let's change the trajectory, let's improve performance, let's do something different that you wouldn't have done if I didn't intercede.'" — Jan "Your culture isn't what you want it to be. Your culture is a product of the decisions you make on a daily basis. … Do [you] respect people? Do [you] listen to them when they have a concern?" — Jim "If people aren't asking questions around you, you might be the emperor without clothes." — Jim "There is a way to ask a question so that it will never be perceived as stupid. … [Instead of 'I don't understand this,' say], 'That's really fascinating. What made you think to do it that way?' or 'Help me understand why you're going about it that way.'" — Jim "We see what's going on in big tech right now; it's all fear. It's awful. People are afraid to speak up." — Jan "It's not like there's much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. They're different. There might be a place where the values line up better with what you're all about. You don't have to be complicit in a toxic culture." — Jan "Humanity is a decision that doesn't depend on anyone else. If you're going to be kind, just be kind, even if people are mean to you." — Jim "As leaders, we've got to encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable." — Jan "We know this: Without a certain amount of self-discipline and sacrifice, you can't tackle big goals and defer short-term pleasures. It's really hard. And any organization has really long-term goals." — Jan "No company that I know of was started to create a great culture. … Every company starts because there's a market need and they think they can help other human beings. And then they get more people involved. And then they say, … ``We should have a good company!" — Jan "We are tribal. To me, these cardinal virtues are the rules for us to behave in a certain way to get along with our tribe and to deliver services, offerings, and products to other humans in other tribes. That's what we're doing." — Jan "Everything feels like it's out of hand because we've gotten so far from the fundamentals." — Jan Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Interact with Jan and Jim on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram Richie Norton Alan Beaulieu ITR Economics Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work, by Jim Detert Jim Detert Kim Cameron The Positive Coaching Alliance Jim Thompson All I Really Need to Know, I learned in Kindergarten: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things, by Robert Fulghum Discipline is Destiny: The Power of Self-Control, by Ryan Holiday John Wooden Kareem Abdul-Jabaar Practical Wisdom: The Right Way to Do the Right Thing, by Barry Schwartz and Kenneth Sharpe Medal of Honor The Marshmallow Test

Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselopulos, the hosts of The Leadership Podcast, explore core values based on the six cardinal virtues. Follow the discussion in this important episode to be reminded how the cardinal virtues apply in life and at work, and how you and your organization can move forward by going back to the fundamentals of leadership. https://bit.ly/TLP-333 Key Takeaways [1:25] Jan and Jim have both received a lot of very positive texts about Episode 332, featuring Richie Norton, who talked about the brevity of life. Jan sees that people are planning frantically for next year. [3:05] Leaders are making sure they don't get caught up in emotions but look at the facts. Jim refers to past guest Alan Beaulieu and ITR Economics. The slowdown we're feeling is a slowdown in the rate of growth, not a recession. Slowing from 25% growth to 9% growth feels like the airbags just came on. Don't overreact. [5:20] The numbers come from our words, deeds, and our ability to work through other people. Leaders get people to do things willingly that they would not do otherwise. How we lead depends on our values. Ask what is the most important thing, the second-most important, the third-most important, and so forth. We need to prioritize what we value and translate those values into behaviors we can observe. [6:47] If we say we value integrity, what is the observable behavior that comes from that value? Is hitting the number that top priority, or are people a priority? [7:42] It doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you do. Your culture is a product of your daily decisions and how you treat people. [8:53] Jim recalls an experience from his first college internship at Glenview Tool Company. The owner, Mike Sciortino told him that a security device can't prevent all theft but it can help keep honest people honest. Jim says, as leaders, let's help people do the right thing. Let's encourage them. [11:04] Jan shares a recent airline experience where "the system" wouldn't allow the airline to fix a problem. The system should be for people! [11:40] Jan explains the six cardinal virtues: Wisdom, Courage, Humanity, Justice, Temperance, and Transcendence. Wisdom is built upon curiosity. We have to reward curiosity if we want people to be able to identify problems. Daily, use the statement, "That's a great question!" Reward questions! It's important to catch people doing right. [17:15] Take the focus of questions away from yourself and put it on the other person. Instead of saying, "I don't understand this, can you explain it to me?" say, "That's fascinating. Help me understand why you're going about it that way." [18:12] Courage gets a lot of talk these days. The best business translation of courage is honesty. Sometimes we say authentic. Jan coached a client who had been honest to their boss, but their boss just got quiet, as though wounded. If we want the truth, we need to hear it. Jim cites Choosing Courage, by Jim Detert. Courage is related to timing. Sometimes, wait for the right moment instead of blurting it out. [21:45] Jan's client recently told him that part of being courageous is not being complicit. Don't keep quiet about stuff. [22:39] Employees always have three choices about their workplace: Suck it up and deal with a toxic culture, try to change it, or leave. What do you stand for? What are you willing to compromise on, or not? It's not like there's much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. You don't have to be complicit in a toxic culture or abusive leadership. [24:40] Humanity is simple kindness or the Golden Rule. This can be hard because there's a lot of competition. There's tunnel vision. Some niceties go by the wayside. But research shows that human kindness works. Humans respond best to positive reinforcement. Humanity is a decision that doesn't depend on anyone else. Just be kind, even if people are mean to you. It's doing the right thing. [28:01] Jan tells of going from being a sergeant to being an officer. He was told, "You don't have to speak like the soldiers; you can be above that." It's a matter of respect. If you try to fit in by speaking the cool lingo, it is inauthentic. [28:58] Justice is fairness. Organizations are asking people to be fair to one another. But, in personalized leadership, you can't treat everybody the same, because of their individuality and the work function they have. People want one-on-one time with their leader. In all that, we have to be sure we're being perceived as being fair. Encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable. [33:19] Temperance is self-discipline. Without self-discipline and sacrifice, we can't tackle big goals. John Wooden taught players how to put on socks and shoes so they wouldn't get blisters. In business, we are missing so many fundamentals, such as starting and ending meetings on time and being predictable. [35:00] Jim says discipline is respect. Showing up to meetings on time is respectful for everybody's time. Discipline with personal and business goals is respect for how important those goals are. If you don't have self-discipline, you probably don't have self-respect. Discipline thrives when you have respect. If you don't have self-respect, discipline falters. [36:29] Transcendence is spirituality. In work, Jan sees it as being gracious and operating with gratitude. Jim reminds us that in the grand scheme of things, our role is small. How do you relate to the universe and other people and creatures? Barry Schwartz, in Practical Wisdom, told of janitors in a cancer care unit operating with graciousness because the patients were in great need and having a hard time. [38:19] The transcendent behavior of the janitors improved the condition of the patients, who were at their most humiliating moments. The janitors were looking at the bigger picture than cleaning up a mess. In high-performing organizations, people operate with that level of transcendence. People who win the Medal of Honor are operating with transcendence, also known as Mission, Vision, and Values. [39:20] Companies are not started for the sake of creating a great culture. A company starts because there is a market need, and they think they can help people. More people get involved and then they think about having a good company, which means having a good culture. People are tribal. The cardinal virtues are the rules to get along with our tribe and be of service to other humans in other tribes. [40:50] Things feel out of hand because we've gotten so far from the fundamentals. As you look at planning, go back and say, "Are we making this too complicated?" [42:24] Closing quote: Remember, "Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can't practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage." — Maya Angelou Quotable Quotes "As [Richie Norton] reminded us, 'Life is short' isn't a cliché, it's true. and 'Don't defer your dreams.' Boy, that show resonated!" — Jan "We had some sectors that were growing at 25% and now they're only going to grow at 9%, so it feels like the airbags just came on because we're slowing down from 25 to 9. … The slowdown is huge but it's still a rate of growth. … Let's not overreact." — Jim "[As a leader,] you're basically saying, 'Let's change the trajectory, let's improve performance, let's do something different that you wouldn't have done if I didn't intercede.'" — Jan "Your culture isn't what you want it to be. Your culture is a product of the decisions you make on a daily basis. … Do [you] respect people? Do [you] listen to them when they have a concern?" — Jim "If people aren't asking questions around you, you might be the emperor without clothes." — Jim "There is a way to ask a question so that it will never be perceived as stupid. … [Instead of 'I don't understand this,' say], 'That's really fascinating. What made you think to do it that way?' or 'Help me understand why you're going about it that way.'" — Jim "We see what's going on in big tech right now; it's all fear. It's awful. People are afraid to speak up." — Jan "It's not like there's much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. They're different. There might be a place where the values line up better with what you're all about. You don't have to be complicit in a toxic culture." — Jan "Humanity is a decision that doesn't depend on anyone else. If you're going to be kind, just be kind, if people are mean to you." — Jim "As leaders, we've got to encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable." — Jan "We know this: Without a certain amount of self-discipline and sacrifice, you can't tackle big goals and defer short-term pleasures. It's really hard. And any organization has really long-term goals." — Jan "No company that I know of was started to create a great culture. … Every company starts because there's a market need and they think they can help other human beings. And then they get more people involved. And then they say, … ``We should have a good company!" — Jan "We are tribal. To me, these cardinal virtues are the rules for us to behave in a certain way to get along with our tribe and to deliver services, offerings, and products to other humans in other tribes. That's what we're doing." — Jan "Everything feels like it's out of hand because we've gotten so far from the fundamentals." — Jan Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Interact with Jan and Jim on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram Richie Norton Alan Beaulieu ITR Economics Mike Sciortino Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work, by Jim Detert Jim Detert Kim Cameron The Positive Coaching Alliance Jim Thompson All I Really Need to Know, I learned in Kindergarten: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things, by Robert Fulghum Discipline is Destiny: The Power of Self-Control, by Ryan Holiday John Wooden Kareem Abdul-Jabaar Practical Wisdom: The Right Way to Do the Right Thing, by Barry Schwartz and Kenneth Sharpe Medal of Honor The Marshmallow Test