The Leadership Podcast

Kathy Miller is a senior manufacturing executive, professional coach, business transformation advisor, and co-author of “Steel Toes and Stilettos: A True Story of Women Manufacturing Leaders and Lean Transformation Success.” Kathy shares the emotional event that fueled her determination, and the value of prosocial behaviors at work. Kathy also talks about the most meaningful metrics: growth and profitability. She reveals how relationships between leaders and their staff can be maintained, and that showing up authentically is as important to your health as it is for  the health of the organization.   Key Takeaways [3:40] Kathy Miller and Shannon Karels co-authored Steel Toes and Stilettos, published in late 2021. The book talks about prosocial behaviors, which are socially accepted actions that benefit other individuals or communities. Kathy explains prosocial behavior as you being able to contribute to something larger than yourself in your current role. [5:00] Selflessness at work begins with leaders setting the norms in the organization. As leaders display empathy and compassion and connect with employees, employees want to give back. It’s also by taking the workers and connecting them with a larger purpose than the paycheck and benefits, displaying how the work they’re doing connects to the community and makes the world a better place. [6:29] Kathy recalls campaigns in her organizations that showed how the parts they made helped to feed the world or how the cars they made provided safe transportation for families. The majority of people respond to that very positively. The book includes a lot about leading with examples and cues in the workplace that say what you are doing is meaningful. [7:14] Peter Drucker wrote that “The purpose of a business is to create a customer.” Workers are here to get and keep customers. Lean manufacturing starts with providing customer value. Whatever the profession, people want to leave the world a better place than they found it, at the end of the day. [10:15] Taking engineering through a co-op school was a practical way for Kathy to fund her way through college. When she first toured a plant with her father, she was exposed to “whooping and hollering and whistling,” but he told her, “People are people,” and “You’re going to be fine,” so she wasn’t intimidated. She immediately fell in love with the automotive assembly plant. It was challenging for her. [11:52] When Kathy graduated, the plan shut down, after having been in production for 50 years. It was a significant emotional event, very early in her career. All the men followed the last car down the line, not knowing what would happen with their lives. That was one of the things that fueled Kathy to want to go into leadership and help create businesses that wouldn’t have to experience that. [13:05] Kathy went into engineering and marketing, but she missed the factory, so she went back into operations. [13:45] When Kathy was young, she was walking in the factory, in the instrument panel area where most of the women worked, and she thought it would be a “safe” place. Some women called her over to show her a box of chocolates shaped like private parts. Later her supervisor saw she was upset and told her that in manufacturing, she could not wear her heart on her sleeve. She learned never to cry at work! [17:26] With great challenges come great rewards. Jan recalls a guest who said, “A career is made from hard bosses that are terrible and challenges that are impossible! It’s not made from a nice environment.” He was the HR director for Jack Welch. [18:26] Kathy suggests two fundamental metrics for success: growth and profitability. Growing with your customers means focusing on them and meeting their needs. And you have to be profitable to pay the bills. There are subordinate metrics you have to address, but profitability and growth are the greatest. If they’re moving in the right direction with momentum, it shows you have an inclusive environment. [19:49] Whatever metrics you take, boil them down so they are meaningful to the people at their level. You want to drive the right behavior. Any metric can be gamed, so look at an overall business system. Everyone in the organization needs to know how their role contributes to the metrics. [22:14] The almost universal response to the idea of any transformation is, “We are different, unique, and special and that will not work here!” As a leader of a transformation, you have to be able to articulate a vision of the future that people can relate to because most people have not experienced those levels of performance, and those types of systems and processes. [23:43] There is the danger of a “Program of the Month” fatigue in organizations from all the initiatives that come along. Break out of being just another initiative. It takes a lot of perseverance and communication, not varying from your stated goal. The “secret sauce” is that people will implement what they help create. [26:03] It’s impossible to personalize the vision to every individual. People have different motivations. When you are the top leader, you are trying to describe what that vision means for the good of the organization. Kathy relates this to her origin story of watching a plant close and how she doesn’t want that to happen on her watch. Leaders have to show a little vulnerability and how it is personal to them. [27:11] Kathy explains the formal strategy deployment process where the leader shares the vision for the organization and each leader translates it to be meaningful to their area, cascading down to the level of operators. If you’re doing these things correctly, people will see their lives getting better. They’re less frustrated; you’re supporting them and making their work more manageable or better. [28:02] The chapters in Kathy’s book are named after shoes: baby shoes, cowboy boots, steel toes, flip-flops, etc. Kathy explains why different shoes are needed for different stages. With the supply chain challenges and workforce shortages, the working world is at a reset. For Kathy, that means we need cowboy boots (Chapter 2). We need to reset the vision for the next era. [31:24] Kathy tells about her relationship with her co-author, Shannon Karels. Shannon was brought into the team to be a transformation expert. Kathy has seen Shannon grow, contribute, and become highly accomplished. They got to be very close and accomplished things together. Now they talk about how they can model for others the great relationship that they’ve had. It’s the best part of sisterhood! [34:10] Kathy has some guidelines to share on work friendships. The relationship between Shannon and Kathy has grown over time. Now that they do not work together, it has grown a lot more. At work, Kathy is very conscious about not playing favorites. She has great relationships with everybody on her staff and sometimes those involve very hard conversations. Now, Shannon’s son calls her “Aunt Kathy.” [36:21] Kathy carefully managed the optics of friendships between herself and her staff. It is lonely at the top. She would only confide in peers at other organizations, not in members of her team. Shannon was a member of Kathy’s staff and was treated fairly and equally with the other staff members. They became so much closer when they wrote a book together as equals. [38:05] Leaders today should pay attention to showing up for work with authenticity, in Kathy’s view. If you can’t show up authentically, ask yourself “why?” Is this a good fit? It’s not healthy if you can’t show up authentically. It’s not healthy for you, your employees, or the company. [41:23] Jim promises to tell a funny story of how he came to interview at Ford with two black eyes and a broken nose if listeners will put 10 new reviews on Apple Podcasts by the end of the month! [43:04] Closing quote: “The only way you survive is you continuously transform into something else. It’s this idea of continuous transformation that makes you an innovation company.” — Ginni Rometty.   Quotable Quotes “Prosocial behaviors are a component of meaningful work; taking individuals who are providing roles and making sure that they’re connected to the needs of others. It’s just a fancy term for being able to contribute to something larger than yourself in the current role that you’re in.” “What you’re doing is meaningful. You might not be able to see it with that part that you’re assembling but you are connected to a greater purpose.” “Engineers are people, too, right? We all want to, at the end of the day, make a difference in the world, through our talents and our skills.” “I immediately fell in love with the automotive assembly plant. I couldn’t believe that every 60 seconds, a functioning vehicle came off the end of that line. And then, after I’d worked there five years, I was even more fascinated by it, when you see all the challenges.” “I saw very early in my life, the impact of a failed business on the lives of so many people. And so, it really taught me, ‘You have to produce results; you have to be successful; you have to give back and create these strong manufacturing businesses.’” “If you continue to grow with your customers, it means you’re focusing on your customers and their needs and meeting their needs, and other customers are getting attracted to you. And you have to be profitable because you have to pay the bills.” “Metrics need to be visible, and they need to be meaningful, and they need to be connected to the overall mission.” “The strategy deployment process [says] ‘These are the levels we need to be a competitive business,’ and then you let the leaders translate that to what that means to their part of the organization, and cascade it … until it gets to a meaningful level at the operator level.” “Understand, what is the current state? What are the variables, right now, that we have to contend with and how are we going to move all those variables in a positive direction in this post-pandemic era?” “If you can’t marry the values and actions and behaviors of the company with your own moral compass and show up authentically, it’s probably time to ask yourself some hard questions and maybe find somewhere where you can show up … authentically.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Dr. Laura Bokar is the CEO of Fox Valley Institute for Growth and Wellness and the author of “We Need to Talk: 24 Simple Insights for Relationships.” Laura discusses a variety of relationship topics, and points out that home and business relationships are the same… they are human relationships. Laura discusses the nuances of difficult conversations, how relationships fail, and how they can be repaired.    Listen to this episode to learn to nurture relationships and avoid big problems.     Key Takeaways [2:20] Laura credits her fabulous husband, Chuck, for helping her throughout her career and in building Fox Valley Institute as a “silent partner.” [3:47] Difficult conversations create fear and anxiety for some. These conversations are on topics important to us, with high and intense emotions behind them. We have uncertainty about how the other person will respond. Laura suggests staying on track in difficult conversations by first embracing and understanding your emotions, preparing, and practicing. [5:59] Before a difficult conversation, own your emotions, manage them, and understand them. You don’t want two emotional people coming into a room. Be clear about what is important to you to bring up and talk about. In the conversation, affirm the person and the relationship, and then let them know what you want to talk about. Be hard on the issue and soft on the person. [7:09] Listen for content and emotions. Respond to emotions with empathy and validation. Sometimes people bring up unresolved issues from the past. These issues will keep resurfacing until they are made the topic of another necessary difficult conversation. When a person gets overwhelmed, they want to shut down and blame or shame themselves. Address what is overwhelming them. [10:39] Can a difficult conversation be avoided? Ask yourself if it will improve the relationship and if the relationship is important enough for you to want to improve it. Knowing the answer, you can decide whether or not to have that difficult conversation. It’s an investment. Are both of you invested? [12:53] Relationships usually don't degrade with one big lapse but with a bunch of small paper cuts. Laura shares examples of small injuries that hurt relationships. You may not be paying attention to them but they build up and put distance between people. Justifications and excuses create distance in both personal and business relationships because you lose trust. Apologize for the small things. [16:02] Small things may call for difficult conversations. Many things can be resolved by talking about them. It could be a reason you don’t know about, such as having a terminally ill family member. Once you know, you can understand and probably let go of it. The person would probably pivot and get back on track. [17:53] Laura tells how to say you’re sorry in a heartfelt way when you understand how you hurt that person. Let them hear that you get it and that you empathize. If the hurt person wants an explanation you can give it; not to satisfy yourself. [19:57] Laura explains primary and secondary emotions. The primary emotion may be sadness, hurt, shame, or loneliness. Shame is an emotion that can’t live in the light. We don’t want to share it. It’s hard to get it into the conversation. It’s probably connected to something deep in the past. If the issue is shame, recommend professional help. Bringing it to the light with a therapist will mean freedom. [24:00] Many leaders get to know their people, notice when they have a change in performance, and have conversations with them. If there is a home problem, Laura recommends the person talk to a professional. Let them find someone they can talk to about it who is not their boss. Leaders should also have the experience of talking to a therapist; they can tell the employee they’ve done it and it is helpful. [28:09] Be aware of changes that might signal depression and recommend the employee talk to a professional therapist if you see the signs. Depression and anxiety are invisible disorders but when they get to the point where you see behavioral changes, it’s usually pretty bad. [29:14] Different generations manage online situations differently. If you notice a big gap between a person’s personality in person and online, talk with them about it. [31:50] Steven Covey told his divorcing friend to “Love her” instead of divorcing his wife. Laura says that the injuries behind the divorce first have to be identified, understood, and forgiven before love will work. [34:15] We have the Great Resignation. Laura says people needed a change, so they left jobs. Many are going back. The grass wasn’t greener on the other side. Laura suggests before leaving a position have a talk with your manager. It’s a failure in the relationship if the manager is not aware of your dissatisfaction. Invest in work relationships. There is no replacement for spending time with humans. [36:55] Some companies attempted to give big raises to prevent people from leaving. But it wasn’t the money, it was the inadvertent slights that were the problems. Leaders have to be intentional and mindful of those small things. Many slights over a long period will add up. [38:32] Relationships are the most important thing. We need to treasure them, and to do that, we need to spend time with them and commit to them. Understand the person. Ask questions and be curious about who they are, what they like, and what they want to do. [39:06] The important thing about being grateful is to feel it. Laura asks the listener to remember when people were grateful for you and thanked you. Those are thoughts that will create biological change in you and bring out more emotions. Laura says, “So that’s my challenge: is to not just make the list anymore about being grateful, just remember when people were grateful for you.”  [41:38] Closing quote: “Assumptions are the termites of relationships.” — Henry Winkler.   Quotable Quotes “So the uncertainty, the high emotions, and knowing that’s something big we want to talk about, that matters to us; people usually will shy away from that.” “[A difficult conversation is] not very comfortable. It also creates fear and anxiety for people. But the more important piece about why we avoid it is because we’re going to be talking about something that’s important to us and with that, usually, we get high, intense emotions.” “The foundation of it is … owning your emotions and managing them and understanding them so you don’t bring them into the room. Because you don’t want two emotional people coming into a room.” “It’s important to notice [the small stuff], apologize for it, and then you can let go. I don’t want you to sweat over it. Let’s resolve it.” “Many times the grass does look greener on the other side and that is part of the injuries that occur during the relationship. It’s those little things, if there wasn’t a big thing that you know, like an affair. … To just go love someone is difficult if there are injuries.” “Injuries can only be healed if they’re identified, understood, and forgiven as a part of that.” “You need to have those conversations; you need connection. If people aren’t feeling connected, whether at work or in your marriage, people will start looking over their shoulder for the grass to be greener.” “Usually, they say to feel better or to help, think of three or five things to be grateful for before you go to bed or when you wake up. But the more important thing about being grateful is to feel it. … Remember the times when people were grateful for you.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Gino Wickman is an accomplished entrepreneur and innovator, creator of the EOS system, and author of many books, including Traction and Entrepreneurial Leap. Gino talks about his new book, “Entrepreneurial Leap.”  Gino describes what makes an entrepreneur, and whether you can learn the traits you need. Gino also shares how his early family business venture led to how he created the Entrepreneurial Operating System® (EOS®). Gino reveals that timing is not as important as adaptability. Products will always change. Customers will always have needs. Lastly, Gino offers a free assessment to see if you are an entrepreneur-in-the-making, or an entrepreneurial leader. Listen in for a fascinating lesson on the essence of entrepreneurship.     Key Takeaways [2:26] Gino Wickman talks about balance and his passions of simple things. He’s obsessed with entrepreneurs in his working life and pursues his passions in his personal life. [5:08] Do you have what it takes to be an entrepreneur? Every entrepreneur is a leader. Gino urges leaders who aren’t entrepreneurs to open their minds to the possibility of being entrepreneurial leaders. Gino’s life work is helping entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial leaders. At EOS, they are working with entrepreneurial leadership teams who run businesses of 10 to 250 persons. [6:12] Entrepreneurial Leap is for entrepreneurs who are about to take an entrepreneurial leap or who just took it and are in the startup phase. [6:37] Six essential traits make an entrepreneur:1.) Visionary, 2.) Passionate, 3.) Problem-solver, 4.) Driven, 5.) Risk-taker, and 6.) Responsible. [6:55] If you have these inborn traits, you are either an entrepreneur or an entrepreneur-in-the-making. If you are a leader with a few of these traits, you are in the right place and are an entrepreneurial leader. You’re probably not going to take the risk to start a business and that’s all OK. [7:20] The reason Gino wrote Entrepreneurial Leap is that being an entrepreneur is the new rockstar and everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. It’s not for everyone. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be. If you take the entrepreneurial leap without having the six essential traits, you will be miserable for years and lose all your money. Gino breaks hearts and saves lives with the news! [8:21] Gino explains the six essential traits cannot be learned; you have to be born with them. Every true entrepreneur he knows agrees and has these six essential traits. He hopes he’s wrong but he doesn’t think he is! [9:20] How do entrepreneurs differ in their decision-making, taking on risks responsibly? A risk-taker knows the odds are that they are going to fail; they are willing to fail, depending on themselves 100% for income, and taking total responsibility for the outcome. [13:54] When Gino took the leap to create EOS he was armed with two thoughts: He saw the needs of entrepreneurs, mismanaging their businesses, and saw nothing but opportunity. He believed he could help them — he had no idea how! He burned so much with the passion to connect the dots that he threw himself out there and simply figured it out. Most people would not take the risk. [15:48] Gino discusses the meaning of risk. Is it as big a risk if you are well-prepared for it? Gino notes there is an entrepreneurial range, from one-person side hustle to the greatest entrepreneur in the world and every entrepreneur fits in that range. Large risks or small, there are always risks. [18:17] Timing matters. In 1,000 years of entrepreneurial history, two things have always changed: products and services and methods of communication. Two things have never changed: People have wants and needs and you have to persuade them. Gino contrasts the too-early Newton with the iPhone that revolutionized the world 15 years later as an example of timing. [19:58] When Gino built EOS Worldwide, the coaching industry exploded. His timing was perfect. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates had perfect timing with software and computers. Entrepreneurs have to evolve with the times, keeping an ear to the ground and always knowing what the customer wants and needs. Be agile and adaptable. [22:50] Even with perfect timing for a product, the customer’s wants and needs will change. The true entrepreneur will evolve to continue meeting those wants and needs. The person who got lucky with timing but does not evolve will be out of business in two to ten years. [24:46] Gino offers a free assessment at e-leap.com to determine if you have the six essential traits. [25:26] Gino wrote The EOS Life, which teaches the five points of how to live your ideal life. In that book, Gino shares energy management advice to help you live a balanced life doing what you love with people you love, making an impact, and making lots of money, with passion. Gino has launched a new platform around the ten disciplines for managing and maximizing your energy. [26:42] Gino shares the 10 disciplines for managing and maximizing your energy: 1.) 10-year thinking, 2.) Take time off, 3.) Know thyself, 4.) Be still, 5.) Know your 100% working time, 6.) Say no often, 7.) Don’t do $25/hour work 8.) Prepare every night, 9.) Put everything in one place, 10.) Be humble. [27:25] Gino’s platform for The 10 Disciplines is found at . The disciplines are how he manages and maximizes his energy. [28:40] The 10 disciplines assume you are a driven individual taking care of yourself. One principle is that you should never do anything you can pay somebody $25 an hour to do. Do high-value work and give the rest to employees. Gino hasn’t looked at his email for 20 years. Email sucks his energy. He’s on the move, he’s creative, he’s creating, he’s teaching, he’s helping, and his energy is high. [32:04] How do you maximize the benefit of having a mentor? Gino believes mentorship is a speed pass to success. He was blessed with two amazing mentors. His Dad, Floyd Wickman, was his people mentor for communication and leadership. Sam Cupp was his business mentor for running a company. Gino borrowed his father’s book, Mentoring, for the mentoring part of The 10 Disciplines. [33:00] Gino teaches you how to find a mentor but first, you have to decide where you want to be. Go and find the person who is where you want to be. There’s one out there who wants to pass on their wisdom and their legacy. Go work for them for free, attach yourself to them, and learn from them. Ask them if they will mentor you. Gino teaches how. Only about half of entrepreneurs have had mentors. [34:06] As a protege of a mentor, the two greatest things you can do to keep your mentor coming back are to thank them often and share with them how you’re applying what they’re teaching. Share the results. They are trying to pass on their legacy, and you can help them do it. [35:13] Gino delegates $500 an hour jobs to free himself for higher-value work. Once a quarter he delegates something big. He decided he needed to delegate his company, EOS. He did a five-year search for the right successor. The day after closing, he moved on to pursue his passion, which was creating Entrepreneurial Leap and now, The 10 Disciplines. Gino is just going to keep on creating stuff. [38:55] Gino uses his arms to communicate. He’s Italian! His gestures are energy shooting out of his body.  [40:55] Gino says most entrepreneurs are insecure. Gino was insecure at 18 but is more confident now. Gino quotes Daniel Kennedy, “We teach what we need the most.” Gino has always taught what he needed the most. Around age 40, Gino fully believed he deserved his optimal life and that’s what he teaches. [46:22] Closing quote: “There are many talented people who haven’t fulfilled their dreams because they overthought it or they were too cautious and were unwilling to make the leap of faith.” — James Cameron.   Quotable Quotes “Being an entrepreneur is the new rockstar. So in the 70s and 80s, everyone wanted to be a rockstar. Nowadays, everybody wants to be an entrepreneur! And it’s not for everyone, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.” “This is a cautionary tale. I’m trying to find the 4% that are [entrepreneurial] and help the 96% that aren’t, realize ‘This is not the career for me!’ … People are taking entrepreneurial leaps; they don’t have the six essential traits, and they are miserable!” “True entrepreneurs with these six essential traits are borderline clinically crazy! We are not sane people! We’re not talking about sane people here. … It’s about just being comfortable taking the leap without having all of the answers!” “It’s a little scary and I never wanted to fail — never wanted to fail! But I have failed; it sucks! I licked my wounds when I failed but I picked myself up and I go! And for those that get paralyzed at the thought of taking a leap, you probably should not do this!” “I’m thinking of Steve Jobs when he came out with this hand-held device way too early, only to come out with it 15 years later and it revolutionized the world. So, there’s an example of timing.” “Never do anything you can pay somebody $25 an hour to do, … like checking your email, scheduling, booking travel, cutting your lawn, doing handy work. … Every hour you pay somebody $25 … to free yourself up to do $100, $200, $500, $1,000 an hour work, you are printing money.” “As a protege of a mentor, the two greatest things you can do to keep your mentor coming back: 1.) Thank them often. 2.) Share with them how you’re applying what they’re teaching. Share the results.” “My message to people is ‘You deserve to live your optimal life, and even further, it’s selfish not to because if you do it, you’re going to impact and change so many lives, you’re going to help me fix the world.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Entrepreneurial FREE entrepreneurial assessment

Richard Newman is the Founder and CEO of BodyTalk. In 21 years, Richard’s team has trained over 100,000 business leaders globally to improve their communication and impact. Richard learned recently that he is high-functioning on the autism spectrum; and he feels it blessed him by guiding his life in a deep exploration of communication. He shares how he teaches the hero’s journey to improve storytelling in meetings. Richard tells of the importance of nonverbal behaviors and of a research study he conducted with University College London on the effectiveness of postures and nonverbal behavior in projecting leadership qualities. Richard has great advice for leaders on lifting others to become the best versions of themselves.   Key Takeaways [2:24] If Richard had been taller or a better player, he may have become a professional basketball player. He was sort of born in the wrong country. When he comes to the U.S., he loves going to watch basketball. There’s not much of a basketball industry in the UK. [4:11] At age 17, Richard taught 11-year-olds at his school how to play basketball, to keep up with other schools. He thought of going into teaching. He went to a monastery in India on a gap program and taught the monks English, using only a chalkboard, body language, and tone of voice. At the end of the first lesson they could confidently speak a few English words and they loved it. He taught for six months. [7:30] Richard learned from teaching English that to communicate well, he had to have congruency between his body language, his tone of voice, and his words. To teach the word “excited” he had to sound and look excited. Congruency is one of the key elements of great communication. That principle became foundational to BodyTalk, the company he founded. [8:56] Richard learned Nepali in India, the easiest dialect of the three languages spoken in the city where the monastery was located. He became more fluent in Nepali than in the French or German he had learned in school. [10:44] The biggest communication error is to treat people as human “doings” rather than human beings. Presentations seek to engage the logical mind. Studies show that the emotional brain engages first, and then sends a memo to the logical brain telling it what to notice. Before a meeting (or email), ask yourself, “How do I need people to feel by the end of this meeting (or email)?” [13:32] Everybody talks about storytelling; they know they need it, but few people understand what it is. Robert McKee says when you listen to a piece of music, you don’t automatically think you would be a great composer. When thinking of storytelling, why do you assume you would be a great storyteller? There is a framework you can learn to be able to tell stories well. [14:11] Storytelling allows us to give people information in the way the brain wants to receive it, engaging the survival mind, the emotional mind, and then, finally, the logical mind. Joseph Campbell’s The Hero With A Thousand Faces introduced this structure in 1949 after having studied how people of different civilizations that never had contact with each other have told stories through the centuries. [15:01] Christopher Vogler in the 1980s reduced Campbell’s 17-steps of the hero’s journey into 12 steps. Richard Newman has simplified those steps into five sections that his company teaches people to use for composing an email or making a presentation. [15:30] If you want to cascade information, frame an important message, or pitch your business, learn the power of storytelling. Richard tells of a client who went from a win rate of one in four to a 100% win rate in the space of a year, getting over a billion dollars of new business. Frame the information to engage the survival and emotional brain, the logical brain, and then get people to take action at the end. [16:50] Jim Carey said that constantly talking isn’t necessarily communicating. The way to turn any information into a more engaging story is to add in moments of feelings. Describe the feelings the facts give you. Start with your goal in mind. What feeling would people need to have for them to take the action you would persuade them to take? [21:50] Richard offers a tip on how to lose your self-consciousness and gain confidence. Before a meeting, get centered within yourself; have internal validation. Then, going into the room, focus entirely on what is happening outside of you, so you are always thinking, “How do I serve them? How do I make sure they understand? How do I get them to this feeling by the end of the conversation?” [27:41] People going through the Great Resignation are questioning their values and what they want their life to be about. Businesses sometimes have to make a hard decision because the easy one doesn’t match their values. Choosing the easy path may give a short-term gain but it leads to long-term pain. People will follow you if they see you don’t compromise your values for short-term benefits. [30:00] Richard learned recently that he is high-functioning autistic.  He had a sense of sudden understanding. He’d known since he was a child he could not connect with his peers but didn’t know why. He developed a passion for studying communication. As a teen, he read over 200 books on it, including nonverbal communication. He went to a professional acting school. He sees it as a blessing. [33:20] Jan refers to previous guest Tim Cole as a great storyteller. [34:12] Richard teaches behaviors that can increase leadership success by 44%. He developed these behaviors while giving over 1,000 presentations to a Formula 1 team. It was the same presentation with different statistics after each race, to different audiences. He started noticing what worked universally and teaching it to clients. They went to University College London to get it scientifically validated. [35:57] They worked with researcher Dr. Adrian Furnham, Head of Psychology. They developed an 18-month study using 100 videos of the same speech, with different speakers, using variations in the nonverbal behavior of the speaker, from the most common gestures to the ones that should give the appearance of leadership.[37:09 Dr. Alastair McLelland, the statistician, had never seen results like it! From the most common behaviors to the most effective behaviors, there was a 44% difference in the appearance of leadership. The best behaviors would change the number of people voting for you by 59%! Standing centered looks competent while leaning to one side, swaying, or walking back and forth gives poor ratings. [39:30] If you’re speaking to a group, people want to know that you, as their tribe leader, can honestly lead the group. If they see gravitas, they will believe you; if they see a pushover, they will not. If they believe in you, they will engage with your message and follow you. Amy Cuddy’s TED Talk on body language says if you stand or sit in a way that shows confidence, your confidence hormones rise. [42:53] Watching the early Democrat presidential debates in 2020, Richard spotted that Kamala Harris got the most emotional reactions from the audience. She didn’t win the nomination, but Biden picked her to run with him for her emotional appeal. Richard doesn’t recommend going for a negative response! [45:36] Being positive doesn’t mean covering up bad facts. It is always better to dig into the truth of the situation. If things are going poorly, then it’s important to state that. If people have challenges, you want to acknowledge and discuss those and show that you care about them. People often forget to recognize challenges while they tell a story. People’s challenges could disconnect them from the story. [46:08] Start from the sense that everybody cares about challenges and everybody cares about having a better future. We all have this pain/pleasure mechanism. Make sure you represent those. Go in with a sense of empathy rather than making those negative feelings worse. [47:04] Is showing a bad temper justifiable? Richard answers with a customer service experience he had. He recommends using the power of “lift,” where you aim to lift the conversation. Before you go into the room. lift yourself to show up as your best version. Then go into the meeting and see the best version of them. They will want to live up to this. Leaders can encourage their team by seeing the best in them. [50:46] Jim’s last words: There is nothing more powerful as a leader you can do for your team than to see their greatness. Don’t show up as the hero. Lead them to be heroes; show up as their mentor. [52:03] Jan invites all listeners to give a listen to Corporate Competitor Podcast, hosted by Don Yaeger. [52:53] Jim closes with a quote: “Outstanding leaders go out of their way to boost the self-esteem of their personnel. If people believe in themselves, it’s amazing what they can accomplish.” — Sam Walton.   Quotable Quotes “By the time I got to be 17, I thought, … ‘I’m going to teach the 11-year-olds at our school how to play basketball so they don’t get beaten to pieces in their first game as we did.’ So I started doing that. I loved that. I loved how much they gained from it.” “[The monks and I] would sit together in the evenings after they came back from going out and doing prayers in the town, … and I would then aim to teach them how to speak English, and had to do it completely using body language and tone of voice.” “[Congruency] is one of the key elements of great communication. When you have congruency, it becomes very charismatic but also much easier for people to pay attention, to listen to you, and to understand what you really mean.” “You need to make sure you’ve got hearts and minds. You need to make sure you’ve engaged people emotionally first, then logically, and then they’re more likely to follow you as a leader.” “What storytelling allows us to do is to give people information in the way the brain wants to receive it, engaging the survival [mind], then the emotional mind, and then, finally, the logical mind.” “If people know how to use storytelling day-to-day, it’s incredible how it increases your influence, and you can use it in a 30-second conversation, … or you can see this in a three-hour movie, or you can use it for a two-day conference that you’re hosting, as well.” “If you’re speaking to a group, we want to know, as our tribe leader, can you honestly lead this group? If you’ve got gravitas, we believe it, if you’re a pushover, we don’t.” “It is always worthwhile digging into the truth of the situation. If things are going poorly, then it’s important to state that. If people have challenges, you want to acknowledge those, and discuss those, and show that you care about them.” “When people can’t see the best version of themselves, see it in them for them, and by doing so, you give them an open door to become a lifted part of themselves.” “You’re seeing the greatness within them and allowing them to go on the journey, and that’s what great leaders can do, they can lift everybody else to perform at their best.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Sandra Stosz is the author of “Breaking Ice and Breaking Glass: Leading in Uncharted Waters.” Sandra is a retired U.S. Coast Guard Vice Admiral who served for over 40 years, including 12 years at sea. She often led all-male teams and was the first woman to lead a U.S. Armed Forces Service Academy. In this episode, Sandra shares with humility some of the leadership lessons she learned in the Coast Guard. She shares humorous stories, and reveals things she learned early that shaped her remarkable career, and why she baked cakes for her staff!     Key Takeaways [1:36] Jim introduces Vice Admiral Sandra Stosz, Retired, tells of her background, and welcomes her to The Leadership Podcast. [2:08] Sandra’s nephew Hunter Stosz is a Lieutenant in the Coast Guard, serving as the Combat Systems Officer on the Coast Guard National Security Cutter JAMES out of Charleston, S.C. Hunter was a cadet at the Coast Guard Academy when Sandra was the Superintendent. That was his leadership crucible! [3:01] Sandra’s hobby is baking cakes! She would bring them into the office and give people a break to stop what they were doing and gather in the conference room to talk and laugh. [4:35] Sandra talks about the Coast Guard Academy, where she was Superintendent from 2011 to ’15, and the Loy Institute for Leadership. She retired from the Coast Guard in 2018 but she is a trustee of the Loy Institute for Leadership, which is the Academy’s agent for leadership development. [6:16] The Coast Guard Academy, like all the service academies, is a 200-week program, meaning four full years of school. A lot of the Academy’s leadership development happens during the summer. Training is given through a framework called LEAD: Learn from theory, Experience through practice, Analyze using reflection, and Deepen understanding from mentoring. [7:09] It’s a virtuous cycle of leader development. It starts with cadets learning in a classroom from Posner and Kouzes’s Leadership Challenge for leadership theory. Then they put the cadets on the water for experiential leadership development through seamanship in sailing programs, and small boat practice, all on the water. The more senior cadets use a practicum that tells them how to instruct. [8:19] After a day on the water, the cadets analyze through reflection. They sit down and “hotwash” what happened; what they want to repeat next time, what they want to avoid next time, and what they learned. Then the cadets deepen their understanding through mentoring. Everybody who learns continues to mentor somebody else, making it a virtuous cycle. [8:48] Sandra shares a story of leadership learning. The cadets sailing a ship tacked suddenly without warning the cook in the galley, the only female cadet on board. Hotdogs flew all over the deck and what seemed funny to the cadets on deck upset the cook who felt laughed at and disrespected. Leadership also means inclusion and respect. [11:18] You can learn to lead through practical experience. The Coast Guard Academy collects data from performance reviews to measure leadership development over the four-year program. It’s hard to measure leadership development over four years but they are on a mission to do that and they are getting closer every month. [12:15] The Coast Guard Academy LEAD framework is built upon the Coast Guard framework of leading self, leading others, and leading the organization. Cadets learn to lead themselves and lead others. They do not advance to leading the organization at the Academy. Sandra tells a story of a cadet who carelessly filled the fuel tank with water. He will never do that again, having learned by experience. [15:12] Officers in the Coast Guard learn to lead the organization, which is strategic. Sandra has seen senior leaders fall short and fail when they did not mature from tactical thinking to strategic thinking. Strategy is looking over the horizon to anticipate threats that might come over that horizon, and then adjust, adapt, and be agile. [16:15] At the organizational level, you face crises where the easy decisions and actions have been made at the lower levels; if it ends up in your hands, it is a big decision. You’ve got to be strategic and decisive. A lot of people aren’t strategic or are not decisive. They haven’t learned how to move from leading others to making decisions that affect the organization and how the organization relates to others. [17:59] Jim highly recommends Sandra’s book. It addresses the balance between power and control. Sandra speaks of the responsibility of the individual and the team to find ways to power through crisis and adversity. There is leadership at all levels. It’s not just about the top boss. Sandra mentions Extreme Ownership. [19:50] It is popular now to blame others for everything wrong so you don’t have to own up to it. Sandra was thinking about that when she wrote her book. She was grateful when someone gave her a Serenity Prayer plaque at a difficult point in her career. She was trying to control everything and having trouble letting go of things she couldn’t control. She carried that prayer to every duty station. [20:50] The balance between control and power reminds Sandra of Aristotle's Golden Mean, which is the balance between extremes. The most powerful thing you can do is release your control and give your power away. Giving power away empowers others. You don’t lose anything by giving power away. You gain the respect and trust of those you empower. [22:12] Control originates from humility and power originates from hubris. Sandra explains why humility is hard to maintain as you advance in rank. The more senior she became, she tried hard to build trust and earn respect and not use her position of power. [23:59] Sandra shares a story on the paradox of control about giving away power. Her Captain gave his power to her, a young lieutenant, to give an important brief to a Commandant of the Coast Guard. She had never given a speech before! For the rest of her career, she worked to give her power away to younger officers. [27:26] Jan cites an Arthur Brooks article, “Being special vs. happy: What success addiction looks like and how to recover,” that discusses motivation and happiness. What would Sandra’s advice be to her 27-year-old self? She would tell her younger self that prevention comes before response and remember the importance of establishing boundaries. [31:41] The four types of exhaustion or wellness are physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. Don’t allow yourself to be exhausted in all four of these areas at the same time! You can manage your wellness with a structure of boundaries built on a foundation of values. If you can’t manage your wellness, you can’t manage your team’s wellness. [36:15] One of the chapters of Sandra’s book is “There’s no secret ingredient.” — Kung Fu Panda. Sandra sees 10 leadership lessons in Kung Fu Panda and Kung Fu Panda 2.[37:26] Sandra shares a foundational story from serving on her first ship, an icebreaker sailing to Antarctica. She learned the Three Ps of Power: Personal, Professional, and Positional. Lean on the first two and go to the third only as a last resort. Your personal power is your EQ. Your professional power is your work ethic and values. Your positional power is your rank or leadership role. [39:44] Use your personal and professional power every day and you will build trust and earn respect. People will want to do their jobs because they feel like they’re part of something bigger than themselves, they feel shared values, they know their purpose, they have pride and passion, and they want to end each day deeply content, satisfied, and feeling good about themselves, their work, and life. [41:12] Leadership is not all in a textbook. It’s hard to learn it and hard to teach it. If you're trying to understand leadership and finding it not easy, your symptoms are normal. Jan shares a message with new listeners. Jan and Jim use the tagline, “We study leaders.” After interviewing 300 leaders, we’re still learning. It will be our lifelong pursuit. [43:02] Sandra’s advice for people in transition from one chapter of their life to the next: Watch out for becoming part of another “me” generation. The people who will be happiest, in the long run, will be are going to look at how they can contribute as part of a bigger purpose with values that they share. They’re going to persevere. They’re going to put in more than they take out. They're going to be contributors. [45:20] Sandra’s last words are about life-long learning. She stayed for 40 years in the Coast Guard because it gave her opportunities to train, advance, and go to the Kellogg Business School, the National War College, and a Capstone program. She continues to read and develop herself. Life-long learning is key to your ability to succeed in a meaningful way. [47:06] Jan closes with a quote from Amelia Earhardt on the decision to act.   Quotable Quotes “Every once in a while, you need a reason to laugh when you’re at work and you’re in a really tough job. I think the cakes helped build that camaraderie and that’s one thing I like about in-person workplaces.” “We expect the cadets to make a mistake when they’re learning how to lead themselves. It’s trial and error. And this is the time when we give them leeway to fail and pick themselves up, and make mistakes, admit them, and try not to repeat them.” “I’ve seen senior leaders fall short and even fail if they keep on with the behaviors that made them successful while leading self and leading others and they move into leading the organization but don’t mature to strategic thinking.” “Be strategic and be decisive. A lot of times, people … haven’t learned how to move from leading others to making decisions that affect an organization, ... the programs, and how that organization relates to others. … Move up into the strategic decision-making realm.” “Type “A”s out there, hear me! You want to control everything and it can drive you crazy. And if you don't let it go it will burn you out.” “The most powerful thing you can do is to release your control and release your power and give your power away.” “The best leaders cultivate their humility, which is really hard to do as you advance up in the ranks. Whether it’s the military or if it’s a private sector, or public non-profit, the more senior you get, people are treating you a little differently up in the ranks.” “What you should be seeking is deep contentment and satisfaction. That comes with a different way of looking at life. It comes from balancing and this becomes the response.” “People never make good choices; they always have to learn from experience, right?” “So many people are in the leadership space and trying to teach leadership and it’s not easy. … If you are trying to understand leadership, how to be a better leader, and finding it not easy, your symptoms are normal.” “The people who are going to be happiest, in the long run, … look to find out how they can contribute as part of a bigger purpose with values that they share. … They’re going to persevere. They’re going to put in more than they take out. They're going to be contributors.” “Lifelong learning is key to your ability to succeed in a meaningful way where you’re meeting all of your objectives and you’re staying motivated. Otherwise, you lose the meaning of life if you don’t continue to focus on life-long learning.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Stephen Drotter is Chairman of the Leadership Pipeline Institute and lead author of “The Leadership Pipeline.” Stephen has worked on succession planning and the related disciplines of organization design, executive assessment, and leadership development for over 50 years. He has helped over 100 companies in 37 countries with succession planning as a management discipline.    In his newest book, “Pipeline to the Future: Succession and Performance Planning for Small Business,” Stephen captures the learnings for meeting the challenges of small business. Steven explains the importance of the simplicity that comes on the other side of complexity. This episode is jam-packed with advice for leaders at all levels - an episode not to miss!     Key Takeaways [1:44] Jim tells about Stephen Drotter’s background, including his latest book, Pipeline to the Future: Succession and Performance Planning for Small Business, and welcomes him to the show. [2:46] Stephen likes to dig to the bottom of things and does not accept superficial responses or thinking. He goes for simplicity on the other side of complexity. He tells about firing companies and why he does it. He works with companies that want outcomes. Process matters but outcomes matter more! [4:56] A good leader creates leaders for succession planning. Stephen tells why it is hard for some companies. Many companies don’t choose to do the work for succession planning. Every position needs to be accounted for in the planning. [6:47] If you can’t produce a good first-line manager, you can’t produce a CEO. There’s a lot to know and a lot to do, and it’s a lot of work. That’s the complaint Stephen hears. Most executives work more with their numbers than they do with their people. [7:21] Managers are working at the wrong level. For example, promoting a top salesperson to a leadership position does not make the salesperson a good sales trainer. If sales numbers rise, it is misleading. The other salespeople aren’t developing if the first-line manager isn’t measured on leadership. Working at the wrong level is the most common problem Stephen sees. [9:19] Stephen tells how to pick leaders and measure their performance, not their sales figures. Leadership performance is about developing leaders under you. Is your team better this year than last year? A leader sets the direction. You need to provide leaders with what they need to be able to lead, including the knowledge of how the company is doing and where it’s going so they can support it. [11:19] Jack Welch liked to skip all the layers of management that he could and engage people at lower levels by going to their training courses at Crotonville and engaging the students directly.  A mechanism for communication is a huge piece of building leaders. [13:20] Are your criteria for picking leaders fair? First, distinguish between performance and potential. Judge potential by how people think and how they are viewed by their peers. What kinds of questions do they ask? If they ask questions at a higher level than their role, they must be thinking about it. Who are the people who think beyond today’s task? They’re the ones who become more efficient. [16:02] Stephen talks about the responsibility of the employee for development. The company has the key because they assign the jobs that will develop the employee. The employee has their interest, their questioning, their learning, and the way they complete assignments. Are they learning the business and the company or just their job? An employee has to be willing to stick their neck out and take some risk. [18:15] Stephen tells why he calls competency models nonsense. He says they are not relevant to the work. [20:42] Training should be differentiated by the student. Students at different management levels need different training. The training needs to apply to the company and what improvements are needed. [22:00] HR is not tuned in to what is needed at the business level; it focuses on the people, not the business. HR should be creating an agenda they use to drive the business. [24:47] Stephen tells about his passion for small business and why he wrote his latest book. He tells how he moved from large companies to consulting for large companies, to studying small companies for lenders. About 90% of Americans work for small companies. But nobody writes management resources for small companies. So Stephen wrote a book for them. [29:48] The management needs of small and large companies are surprisingly quite similar but how you meet the needs of small and large companies is remarkably different. Stephen gives an example and  He shares an anecdote from working with a big company. He offended the CEO! [35:13] Employees want to be fulfilled. Management wants production. Stephen shares thoughts on how people have changed. The important thing is to set goals and accomplish them. That’s what helps you succeed. [37:59] Stephen shares more about leadership pipelines; it’s how to run the business and set goals. He explains what the technology pipeline is. [42:00] Jan encourages listeners to listen to this conversation again and take notes. This topic is very different from the usual episodes. [42:38] Stephen shares his last thoughts. There are the workers, the communication patterns, and the work. Start with the work and the rest will make sense. All businesses have to compete.   Quotable Quotes “I like to dig down to the bottom of things. I have a hard time with superficial responses and superficial thinking, you know, the bumper-sticker-type leadership advice.” “There’s simplicity and then there’s complexity, and there’s simplicity on the other side of complexity. I go for that simplicity on the other side of complexity. And so, it’s time-consuming.” “Process matters but outcomes matter more.” “We’ve known how to do [succession planning] for 50 years, so there’s no longer an excuse. People just don’t want to do the work.” “Think of a pipeline that’s broken at the point where the pipeline goes into the material you’re going to pump. That very first piece is broken. What do you think’s going to come out the back? Nothing!” “Most succession systems are broken at the bottom. If you can’t produce a good first-line manager, you can’t produce a CEO. You’re going to have to get him someplace else. It’s not in the culture. People don’t understand that developing themselves and others is important.” “To work at the right level takes a lot of personal discipline to move away from the stuff that you like and into the stuff that you have to do.” “The top [level] needs to spend more time with the bottom [level]. That’s one of the very big, important disciplines.” “A mechanism for communication is a huge piece of building leaders.” “It’s not possible to define the potential for someone to go higher than you are.” “You may be entitled to a promotion because you earned it, but you’re not entitled to a promotion because you showed up today.” “When I started consulting, I stayed with big companies because they can pay..” “There’s such a thing as management risk. You have the wrong management structure and the wrong management people; you’re putting your business at serious risk.” “If you want to have development happen, pick a job you don't want, working for a boss who doesn't want you. There will be real development.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Deepa Purushothaman is an author, speaker, leader, and Co-founder of nFormation. Deepa challenges and redefines the status quo of leadership, success, and power by centering on the needs and experiences of women of color. Deepa shares her journey from executive to thought leader and how her sabbatical to recover her health, combined with her study of policy led her to interview over 500 women of color in senior positions about the microaggressions and racism they have experienced in the corporate world. She gave them a voice in her book, The First, The Few, The Only: How Women of Color Redefine Power in Corporate America. She talks about her experiences teaching leaders to listen carefully to the women of color in their organizations to learn how work is not working for them, shares her suggestions to women of color on how to react to racist situations, and explains to executives how to talk about them when they occur. We are in a moment where people are open to uncomfortable conversations, and willing to change what should be changed. Deepa is excited for the work of the future where women of color will feel included and heard.     Key Takeaways [1:45] Jan shares Deepa Purushothaman’s background. After leaving Deloitte, Deepa co-founded nFormation, a membership-based community for professional women of color, helping place them in C-suites and on boards. Deepa’s first book, The First, The Few, The Only: How Women of Color Redefine Power in Corporate America, was published in March 2022 to international acclaim. [2:28] Jan welcomes Deepa to The Leadership Podcast. Deepa left corporate America during the pandemic, just before the Great Resignation. People told her she was crazy to leave a secure position. She says you leap sometimes and it just works out. [3:37] Deepa tells why she left the corporate world. She was done with her corporate career and needed a break. She wanted to do something around women of color. At the time, people thought COVID-19 would be just a couple of weeks. [5:03] Deepa spent 21 years in corporate roles at Deloitte. Toward the end of her career, she was very sick and spent eight months in bed. She started to see the importance of health and asked herself what place she wanted work to take in her life. She had a big value shift. [7:18] Deepa shares her tips for living a good life in a corporation. It takes very intentional work, protecting your time, and accepting that you may not rise fast in the company. [8:38] Before resigning, Deepa had taken an eight-month leave of absence for illness. After 15 doctors, she was diagnosed with late-stage Lyme disease. Eight months of unplugging from the system helped her see she could have a family and other things outside the firm. She figured out how she wanted to redesign her life and what she needed to recharge. Being able to do that was a gift. [11:18] Deepa had had a growing sense of purpose about policy — that was her major in school — and that, combined with her sick-leave sabbatical, gave her a new direction for her life. [13:08] Deepa found similarities between working at a large corporation and a small to medium business. She interviewed mainly VP-level and above. The women would say they had finally gotten to their seat of power and they didn’t feel powerful. A lot of the women of color Deepa interviewed talked about erasing or hiding parts of themselves to get to the table in any size of business. [14:02] Many women of color grew up as “onlies” and didn’t see themselves represented in the media or among leaders. So there’s a question of belonging and having to find your voice. We’re trying to figure out what leadership looks like for us because we don’t see it around us. [14:55] Deepa listed in her book twelve different challenges that women of color executives face. At the top of the list, it’s not seeing yourself represented and having to find your voice. The sense of “first, few, and only” is really different. There’s a deep sense of isolation. Deepa lists other differences that affect women of color more than anyone else, including chronic illnesses and the extra work they have to do. [18:19] One woman of color Deepa interviewed edits how she talks, dresses, styles her hair, and what she eats because she is the only woman of color in her company and her community, and she wants to present all black people in the best light possible. Executive women of color are asked to mentor many women of color because they are the only ones in their company or industry in senior positions. [22:08] Deepa interviewed Vernā Myers of Netflix, who told her how offputting airplane overhead storage compartments are for women with small children who might get hit with falling luggage. Deepa notes similarly that workplaces weren’t designed with all people in mind. The corporate model of the family, with one person working and the other raising children, has never been updated. [24:11] Many of the women of color in the book shared microaggressions that had been said to them. Deepa notes a few that were said to her two or three times daily. Some women were told they were “articulate” on a daily basis. It made them feel like they didn’t belong. No one heard people say to a white man that he was articulate. [26:16] About the Senate Panel Vote for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. Deepa has written an Op-Ed about it that drew a lot of attention. Despite being overqualified, her credentials were questioned. Most of the women Deepa interviewed said they had to be two or four times as good as their counterparts just to be credible or to get the opportunity. Judge Jackson had to smile through derogatory comments. [28:33] Deepa tells how she handled it when people asked her if she was in a meeting to take notes or pour the coffee when she was the senior person in the room. She contrasts that with how she would handle her feelings about the same situation today. [31:56] How does Deepa address systemic issues at a Fortune 100 company? She meets with an executive team and is very open and blunt. Some executives tell Deepa they have solved these problems, then Deepa speaks with Black and Brown employees and hears a list of challenges and concerns. Deepa talks with companies about starting on a journey that will take a while. [35:12] Deepa is optimistic that executives are listening differently and if we are to change how work works for everybody, now is the time. Deepa wants leaders to give themselves permission to try different things. None of us have been taught how to talk about race. Deepa talks in the book about things women of color can do when they face racist incidents. Practice and have statements ready. [36:38] Deepa also encourages white male leaders to practice dealing with incidents, such as saying, “That didn’t sit right,” “I’m afraid that probably didn’t land the same way for everybody,” or “Can we stop the meeting and talk about what just happened?” We all need to learn what to do about racism. Give yourself permission to try. It’s more important that you try than that you don’t do anything. [37:15] In the two years it took to write the book, the language has progressed so much in how we talk about these topics. The terms are changing. You’re not going to get it right every time. That’s OK; it’s more important to try and to give yourself grace. Deepa notes that the employee voice is on the rise and she wants people to be happy in their jobs. [39:45] Deepa talks about “the power of me,” and “the power of we.” In order to create change, it’s going to take other people. Deepa sees a lot of delusions about how work has to be. [41:02] Leaders should learn to know the values that women of color hold, such as community. Women of color tell Deepa they have negative feelings for the word “Power.” She asked Stacy Brown Philpot, CEO of TaskRabbit, about power and she suggested leadership and power could be about making people feel safe and that they can bring all of who they are to the table, with some boundaries and guardrails. [44:36] Deepa has learned through publishing this book that you have to be ready but you also have to trust that the universe will meet you where you are. She is also excited about the future and the possibility of the moment we are in. Change is possible if we band together and have hard conversations. If we are ever going to have a better world of work, it is now. [46:28] Deepa’s final thoughts: We all have power. We all have the ability to find our voice and some of this is about doing the hard work to figure out what’s important to you, and what your values are. How do you want to show up? How do you want to lead? Who do you want to be? When you know that, there are ways to change the places where you work. We have a lot more power than we realize.   Quotable Quotes “[When I left my career] I didn’t have a book deal. I didn’t have the company founded. There were a lot of questions around that, so …  It kind of speaks to my risk-taking. You leap sometimes and it just works out.” “I had a very visible job. I was known in a hundred-thousand-person organization by my first name. … When you make it relatively young, and you make it quickly … — I’d sacrificed a lot to get to that seat.” “I thought you could have success and health is important but it wasn’t top-of-mind. … I started to get really sick. …  Part of my journey was getting healthy; part of my journey was asking different questions. … What space do I want work to take up in my life.” “I interviewed over 500 women of color to write the book and so their stories are in there. … One of the statements that kept coming up over and over again is this pressure to conform, perform, and produce.” “You almost have to unplug for at least six months to even understand … what the values are and look in your life and see what makes you happy.” “I grew up in a very white, very small farm-country town where I was one of five students of color in a school of 500. So you’re always kind of wondering, ‘What’s different; where do I belong?’” “When I get that angry or that upset, I carry that for a long time. … I have research that suggests that we carry negative comments four times as long as a positive comment or a compliment. Those kinds of things really weigh on women and women of color.” “We have not created safety in companies. We have not created places where people are able to tell the truth and women of color can share everything that’s happening to them.” “There are a lot of challenges. Speaking with 500 women of color, … there is … a lot of trauma. I’m really optimistic because I feel like we’re in a moment where people are listening differently and that if we were ever going to change how work works for everybody, it’s now.” “I think we’re just in a moment where employee voice is on the rise. And so, if companies and leaders don’t start to pay attention to that, I think they’re missing something. … I want people to be happy in the jobs that they have. We spend more time working than we do with our spouses.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Ron Adner is the leading strategy thinker on the topic of business ecosystems. He is the author of The Wide Lens: What Successful Innovators See that Others Miss and a new book, Winning the Right Game: How to Disrupt, Defend, and Deliver in a Changing World. Ron shares important insights on the language of strategic alignment to help you navigate the new world of coalitions and ecosystems. If your new value proposition requires rewiring your relationships - you’re in an ecosystem where there is interdependence. It takes a new language to teach new strategies, and the rewards can be great. Listen in to see if you should be shifting your perspective.   Key Takeaways [2:10] Much of what Ron writes is on how to think about innovation and make sure you are doing the right work. He stresses efficient, effective action. [3:24] What kind of shifts will disrupt your ecosystem? Modern disruptions change the ecosystem, for example, making a change in how healthcare is delivered and changing the boundaries of industries. [7:11] The COVID-19 pandemic disrupted the work ecosystem. It’s a virus; it’s supposed to stay in its healthcare box. It broke through boundaries to affect international relations, trade, supply chains, and more. An ecosystem disruption requires an ecosystem response. Ron shares a link for listeners to read Chapter 1 of his book, for free, to learn about the challenge we are all facing. [10:45] In 95% of conversations where people use the word “ecosystem,” you could substitute the word “mishmash,” with no loss of meaning. Ron claims there is a lack of structured thinking about ecosystems. He shares a specific definition of ecosystem, and how it connects to whether or not your new value proposition requires rewiring relationships. [12:53] Hans Rosling wrote in Factfulness about the secondary and tertiary effects of the globally important decisions we make. Ron says people can’t confidently discuss third-order consequences. His work is built on the structure of interdependence; understanding the system that is implied by a value proposition. Think about the structure of the system that needs to come together for the proposition. [16:35] Ron believes that if we can think more broadly about the set of parties we are going to interact with, a lot of things become easier to see. It requires flexibility and true empathy for the counterparty’s position. [18:36] When writing his book, Ron discovered that the structure of interdependence is changing. It’s necessary to know what the changes are. In Jack Welch’s GE, it was clear what the industry was and easy to rank who was number one. Today, all sorts of parties are on the same game board playing different games. Choose the game you want to win! Winning the wrong game can feel a lot like losing. [21:05] Meeting the clients’ needs better than the competition was the traditional execution lens and it is still needed. But is that all that’s needed? Is your ability to deliver on that promise entirely within your capability set, or are you going to be relying on other parties and partners to do something to enable you to deliver, not your product or service, but the value proposition that you’re making? [22:50] Is it better to follow the traditional execution of the value proposition? It depends on whether you have easy access to the abilities and resources needed to deliver on that proposition. If not, you need an ecosystem of partners that can do something to enable you to deliver on the value proposition. And you need to put them on the same pedestal to maintain the value proposition. [23:45] Ron shares a case study from Michelin, and their run-flat tire. They didn’t invest enough in their service garage partners and the product collapsed. Critical partners are just as important to strategize for as your end consumers. [24:50] Jan cites Steve Justice, former program director for Lockheed Martin, saying, “You’ve got to stand in the future. And if people are laughing at you, you know you’re far enough out there, that you’re standing in the future.” [25:48] Ron suggests asking, “What do we need to get there?”, “Who do we need to get there?”, “How do you align them?” He explains the differences between a project and an ecosystem. In an ecosystem, your partners may not know that you’re planning to rely on them. In a project, everyone knows who the manager is. In an ecosystem, there is no hierarchy of authority. You rely on strategic alignment. [28:48] An ecosystem that’s functioning well is one that’s in balance. [29:42] Chapter 6 of Winning the Right Game is an attempt to understand what individual leadership means when you’re playing in the ecosystem game. There is a distinction between the execution mindset required to succeed in a setting where the leader puts his organization first, and the alignment mindset required to align different organizations into an ecosystem coalition, putting the coalition first. [33:27] Jim refers to Joseph Pine and James Gilmore’s concept of the experience economy, where the experience, not the service, is the greater value proposition. Ron talks about Amazon and Alexa’s value proposition for the smart home and how they surpassed Apple, Google, and Microsoft to lead in smart homes, and how Tesla surpassed GM in electric cars. [37:25] Some leaders can’t make the jump from leading others to leading the organization. Ron says there are different categories of leaders. We need execution people in industries. For others, building coalitions comes more naturally. Most of us are not at the top of the organization. Ron describes a mindset that is helpful for middle executives in choosing the projects they want to be in. [41:22] The language of strategy is inadequate for today’s tasks. Ron suggests using the chapters of Winning the Right Game to communicate what underlies your strategy. Use the new language of strategic alignment to educate the people below and above you in the organization. [46:04] Ron summarizes. Chunks of the world operate in an industry mindset. Chunks of the world are shifting toward an ecosystem situation. First, figure out what side of the world you are in. Use the industry toolbox for industry. If your opportunity relies on a new set of collaborators and a new mode of collaboration, use the new ecosystem strategic alignment toolbox. If you get it right, rewards are great. [50:02] Jim invites listeners to visit and closes with a Stanley A. McChrystal quote that leaders should be like gardeners, creating and maintaining a viable ecosystem in which the organization operates.   Quotable Quotes “The key in a difficult world is efficient, effective action.” “Classic disruption … was a study of identifying substitute threats while they were still off the radar. … All that disruption was really a technology substitution.” “When I talk about an ecosystem disruption, it’s this disruption that doesn’t change the technology within a given box. It changes the boundaries that used to define these boxes that we can think of as traditional industries. That, I think, is what we’re seeing, more and more.” “An ecosystem response is one where a coalition of actors is pulled together. ” “When I talk about an ecosystem, I have a very specific definition in mind. … It’s the structure through which partners interact to deliver a value proposition to an end consumer.” “The ecosystem, then, is anchored not in any given actor, not in a firm, but in a value proposition and the structure through which multiple partners interact.” “Whenever you have a value proposition that requires a rewiring of relationships, that’s when you’re moving into this ecosystem world, which, I will argue, requires a new strategy toolbox to draw from.” “When you have a new proposition that doesn’t require rewiring [relationships], you don't need to worry about this ecosystem stuff. You can go back toward traditional tools.” “Your challenge is not just winning but choosing the game you want to win. The threat, of course, is that you can win the wrong game, and winning the wrong game can feel a lot like losing.” “Can you execute in a traditional execution way, or do you need to rely on an ecosystem? Why do we see firms relying on partners? It’s because they don’t have easy access to the capabilities or the resources.” “How is it that great people are succeeding in one setting and being less successful in the other?” “In the real world, if you're in a room and you’re the only person with the right answer, you're totally useless. Your job is to get everybody else to the right answer, and that requires language.” “It’s not saying there’s a new world order or everything has changed. It’s saying some things have changed and perhaps you’re in a situation that might be different but it doesn’t mean everything is.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Dr. Joseph A. Allen has written more about meetings in the academic literature than anyone. He is a Professor of Industrial and Organizational Psychology at the University of Utah. On the show, he shares recent research that shows hybrid meetings are better than either in-person or virtual meetings. Dr. Allen shares his rules for effective meetings, whether in-person, virtual, or hybrid; and how to foster inclusivity and engagement. Do you know your people? Have you talked to them? What do they want? Encourage participation. … There are ideas out there that will solve the problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.   Key Takeaways [2:01] Dr. Allen has written more on meetings in the academic literature than anybody else! [3:11] Having poor meetings is a problem in nearly every organization. [4:33] In the first week of  March 2020, Dr. Allen and his co-author Karin Reed predicted that video meetings and remote work would happen in five to 10 years. Instead, they started two weeks later in the COVID-19 pandemic shutdown! Web video cameras were hard to find by May! [6:13] Dr. Allen collected data in June 2021 for a study showing that face-to-face meetings before the pandemic weren’t great, virtual meetings were as good as face-to-face meetings, and hybrid meetings were better than either. If you make sure everyone is seen and heard, hybrid meetings can be the most inclusive type of meeting. If you don’t put the effort into it, they are challenging to do well. [8:15] Early adopters were running hybrid meetings that started on time, ended on time, and had an agenda and a purpose. They encouraged participation. They were following the best practices Dr. Allen had been preaching for years. If you do those best practices, you can have a good meeting in any format. [9:41] In virtual or hybrid meetings, there should be one camera for each participant. We can’t continue to set up conference rooms with the “bowling lane” approach. We need to work toward finding the best way to use multiple cameras and microphones. [11:18] If you don’t know how to facilitate a meeting based on the agenda, you will not hold a good meeting. Dr. Allen talks about the need for procedural communication, to interrupt a monologue and steer the conversation back to the objective. He also notes that most meeting leaders have a blindspot to their faults and think they do a better job of facilitating meetings than they do. [15:30] Dr. Allen says it is paramount to use your camera in a video meeting. If you want your voice to be heard, turning your camera on provides the additional input of facial expressions and gestures. Don’t turn off your camera so you can check your email. Be engaged. Leaders, run your meetings so participants need to be engaged, or you are giving them an out not to engage. [17:42] Who needs to be in the meeting? Part of planning for a meeting is selecting who needs to be invited. [18:21] Everybody doesn’t need to be invited to every meeting. They need time to do their regular work. With the pandemic and seven-step “commutes,” managers started filling commute time with more meetings. Sometimes sharing the meeting minutes is better than having everyone in the meeting. Or record the meeting and others can play it back at 2X speed. [20:5] Between choosing phone or video, you should hold a video meeting when you’re meeting someone that you’ve not worked with a lot. If you don’t see each other, someone might be confused over your meaning. [22:24] The more complex an issue, the more important it is to have a virtual environment that allows sharing charts as well as seeing each other. Phones are good tools for simple issues. [23:09] If you don’t know how people are going to react to what you throw out there, use the strongest communication modality you can. In-person or video is better than phone, email, or text to communicate a complex message. [24:13] Joe recommends a virtual commute, which is taking the time to get your brain ready to work, and after work, getting your brain ready to be home. You could listen to a podcast, a book, or the radio. You are giving your brain the natural cues to transition to the next environment with its activities.[26:23] It’s psychologically healthy to take breaks, reflect, and focus. Joe has a paper on meeting recovery under review at a journal. This is discussed in his book, Suddenly Hybrid. Humans need moments to be human. Without transition time, we start to burn out. Meeting recovery is a big issue. Make meetings 25 minutes or 50 minutes long so people can take a break before their next meeting! [31:09] The best practices for any meeting, in-person, hybrid, or virtual: Have an agenda, start on time, end on time, have a purpose, and describe the purpose at the beginning of the meeting. [31:40] The best practices unique to hybrid meetings: The leader sets ground rules, like calling people by name and asking them to participate; it’s OK if the answer is, I don’t have anything to add. That way, everybody gets a chance to be seen and heard on this. Set a ground rule that it’s not OK to turn the camera off and disengage. It’s up to the participants to help and participate. [32:54] Dr. Allen strongly recommends the leader rotate the location of the hybrid meeting, either office or a remote location. It reminds the leader how hard it is to participate remotely and how important it is to engage the remote participants. The leader should set the rule for the discussion part of the meeting that remotes chime in first before anyone in the room does. [33:57] It’s easy for the people in the room to create a tiered communication system, where the people in the room are primary and the people on video or audio are a secondary group. This derails the sense of team effectiveness. Rotate who speaks first among the remote participants; if you know your team, you know who will respond well to being called on first and share their thoughts briefly. [36:57] Gary Hamel, author of Humanocracy, has advocated for years that we stop managing people like Napoleon, command and control. Now managers are insisting we get back to work nine to five. Dan Price, CEO of Gravity Payments recently said, “If you get your work done, that’s all that matters.” [37:44] Surveys of workers show that some people want to work from home more and some people want to work from the office more. To retain your top talented folks, establish policies and procedures around hybrid work that allow people to work from home when they need to and work in the office when they need to. Add some required days where people come together and re-energize the team. [39:28] On days when you bring everybody in, have people collaborate. Why commute for an hour to sit in a box? Collaboration is skills-based. Leaders can read about it and implement it. It can be done even by people who are introverts because they know that collaboration on their team is important to their success. On all-hands days, have team meetings and things that cannot easily be done virtually. [41:40] CEOs, are you creating an environment for your leaders to learn how to do this really hard stuff that is leadership today? [43:01] One size does not fit all. Different teams have different requirements. Get to know your people and provide a sense of flexibility that might be a little more uncomfortable than you would like. If you don’t accommodate your people, you may lose them, even though they may find out the grass is not always greener over there. [47:20] Dr. Allen issues a challenge to the listeners: 51% of our meetings are rated as poor. The ways to improve meetings are not rocket science. Take stock of your meetings. Think about what would be the ideal situation. See what you may not be doing and try it. Encourage participation. There are ideas out there that will fix problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.   Quotable Quotes “There isn’t actually a course in the management schools across the country that trains people on how to run effective meetings; why would we do effective meetings?” “Everybody had to figure out what was going to work for them in their environment.” “What we learned is that we can do this. We can meet remotely. We can make it work effectively.” “Early adopters are often those people who know how to make the Apple Watch work really well. Or they know how to pull things up on the screen that you don’t know how to do. They’re the people that take on technology and just embrace it.” “The meeting leader, who comes in with an agenda and a purpose, gets steamrolled by somebody … who just goes off on their favorite topic. … That leader needs to know that they can say, ‘Thank you for that comment. That’s meaningful. I’d like to get your thoughts on this.’” “You know that one bad meeting causes three more meetings! That is scientifically shown across a lot of different samples and a lot of data. It’s worth the effort to make the meetings better because it means we should have fewer meetings moving forward.” “[A ‘virtual commute’ is] that psychological and meaningful human transition from one thing to the next. And we need that transition time. Without it, we start to really burn out.” “It’s easy for those folks in the room to create a tiered system of communication, where the people in the room are the primary and the people that are not in the room, whether it be on video or audio, become a secondary group. That ... can derail the sense of ... ‘team.’” “[Collaboration] can be done even by people who are not the most collaborative or wanting to be. … Introverted people … learn how to do it, anyway, because they know that collaboration in their team is really important for the success of their team.” “It’s all about: Do you know your people? Have you talked to them? What do they want? And if you go against what they want, be prepared for the ramifications! Be prepared for the mass exodus that’s been happening in some organizations.” “Encourage participation. … There are ideas out there that will solve the problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Marlene Chism works with C-Suite leaders to build drama-free cultures that drive growth and reduce costly mistakes. She’s the author of four commercially-published books and a LinkedIn Learning instructor. Marlene shares simple ways to deal with conflict. Marlene advises using curiosity to learn more about the parties to the conflict, and explains the dangers for new leaders of being nice. She also shares leadership traits and the importance of being in alignment. And remember, willingness is the fulcrum point of change.   Key Takeaways [1:52] Marlene Chism loves to dance. Marlene suggests turning off his “thinking brain” to find his rhythm! [3:38] Marlene says we mismanage conflict with the three “A”s: Appeasement, Aggression, and Avoidance. When we think of conflict as a problem, we fear it. [4:05] Marlene has a new definition for conflict: Opposing Drives, Desires, and Demands. It’s not one person “out to get” another. People want different things for different reasons. When you take the personal aspects out of conflict and define it differently, your gut reaction to it changes. [4:34] Generally, we mismanage conflict because we have an inner conflict first. In other words, I might need to have a difficult conversation with you but I also want you to like me. I mismanage it because I have two opposing drives, desires, and demands within myself. [5:35] When is the right time to address potential conflict? Marlene says we have to get curious, and the sooner, the better. Good contracts create good relationships. Marlene offers ways to be direct and find clarity. Bring up questions earlier, rather than later. [6:55] Sometimes we imagine conflict where there is none. Are we negotiating with ourselves? Marlene suggests watching your narrative. Don’t believe everything that you think. Say, “I observed this; my perception is that.” That gives grace to the other person to clarify if they meant something else. Being assertive beats the alternative of making up a story and creating a bigger conflict than what was there. [8:29] Marlene says she takes a breath and thinks about whether she has all the facts to be sure she is right. If she’s feeling angry, she interprets it as that she needs more information. Marlene always asks “Are you willing to be wrong?” [10:19] Willingness is the fulcrum point of change. Nothing happens until there’s willingness. If I haven’t been willing, it means I’m in a state of resistance. [11:01] Marlene says drama is an obstacle to peace and prosperity. She uses the visual of a rowboat with a person in it going to an island. A shark between the boat and the island is the obstacle. When we’re in drama, we’re distracted. Marlene compares employee drama with top-level drama. CEOs who think they are above the drama are not hands-on and are keeping secrets from their team so they look competent. [13:24] If you’re not working toward a purpose; if you don’t have a shared vision, and if you don’t feel excited, that’s an obstacle. We all have to take responsibility for our engagement and desires. There is a symbiotic relationship between the employee and the company. [14:05] Marlene discusses her latest book, From Conflict to Courage. In the workplace, Marlene says courage is not taking the easy path; not taking the path of being perceived as “nice.” Marlene’s book sets up a framework of Conflict Capacity with three overlapping circles: Culture, Skillset, and Inner Game. The three together give you the ability to clarify conflicts. [16:18] Marlene says in the long run, aligning with your values and what you promised your customer is going to serve you. What is the point of being profitable if you are miserable because you don’t understand alignment? [17:26] Marlene defines leadership. It is alignment or focusing energy. Aligning everything in your business trumps opportunity. Opportunity can be a distraction and lead to drama. [18:32] If something is operating in harmony, it’s very efficient and very effective. Marlene says the owner wants to get to the treasure chest on the island, the leader wants everybody to row harder and faster, and the rower just wants a better seat cushion on the boat. A consultant has to look at all three perspectives. [19:52] In her latest book, Marlene writes about the price of being nice. She sees three identities of new leaders before they are oriented: Best Friend, Hands-off, or Hero. When we don’t align with the values of leadership, we try to align as "best friends." [21:35] We can be friendly; we should be kind and polite, but when we don’t understand our role as a leader, then it’s about being nice, which is about manipulating. We think that being nice is making people like us, so we avoid being direct because it feels bad to say “No.” We’re afraid of hurting people’s feelings, versus educating them on why prior decisions are not going to allow that new idea. [22:14] Peter Drucker, in his book, Concept of the Corporation, says that when front-line people give ideas and they don’t match, don’t look at it as if they’re stupid or they don’t get it. Look at it as they want to engage but they don’t understand how the business operates and how the different departments work together. We should educate them. We want people to grow, not to like us. [23:27] People will like you if you are fair with them. Work on having a relationship with people. You don’t need to conduct a personality assessment on your team to resolve conflicts. You need to spend time with them and talk honestly with them without posturing. [24:41] Feigning niceness but not wanting to develop a relationship, is not niceness. Some say the traits they have that distract are virtues. If people say that’s just the way I am, Marlene asks them “Is that who you want to be?” Do you want to be authentic to the childish parts of you, or do you want to be authentic to the future you, who is growing, evolving, apologizing and working on yourself? [26:23] With a clear definition of how you want to show up, that changes the game. Ask yourself, am I willing to stop rolling my eyes and interrupting? Am I willing to notice that habit, to be a better communicator? [27:01] What are some of the challenges of building relationships without being in the office? It’s an opportunity for those who want to be intentional about connection. Learn to be good in the office, on Zoom, on Teams, on the phone, and in text. Have a system because eventually, it will put you at the top. Be the one who follows through instead of ghosting. [28:22] You will never lose by deciding to be intentional about how you form relationships and how you treat other people.   [29:14] What if you’ve been a coworker, and were suddenly promoted to manage people who were your “best friends”? Marlene hopes the organization would help to onboard you into management, but it doesn’t happen very much. You’re going to take on a whole new identity. Don’t believe that the better you treat people, the more they’re going to do you favors. They will take advantage. It’s human nature. [30:09] Have a meeting with everyone, individually and in a group, to explain the new position and what it means. Marlene shares a script for being open and setting expectations from the beginning of the things that will change and how you will go forward. Generally, when expectations have not been set is the time Marlene is called in! You’ll have to start with a clean slate and own the part you played. [30:59] You cannot set a new boundary out of the blue. It will make people your enemies. Tell your observations. Acknowledge your part in it. Explain how it is affecting the operation. Set the new rule and say everyone will need to comply. It will require, when someone messes up, for you to enforce the consequence you said would happen. A boundary is not solid unless you keep the boundary. [32:48] Leadership clarity is about situational analysis and the outcome. Without those two points of reference, you cannot solve any problem at all. Identify what’s happening that shouldn’t be, what’s not happening that should be, how that affects your business, the two points of reference and the obstacles you think are in the way. Start with clarity. [33:58] Leadership identity is how you see yourself in relation to these issues. Leadership Identity drives everything but you can only be as effective as your ability to be clear. [35:01] Marlene recently had a clarification meeting with a new client. Just as they were about to sign the contract, the client wanted to add in a StrengthsFinder, as well. Marlene answered, yes, they could do that for an extra fee, but since we know the situation and the outcome, let’s see if we can uncover some of those issues that are creating a lack of clarity and resolve them with what we’ve agreed to do. [36:23] What can happen if a board member is hired by opportunity (deep pockets and good connections) instead of by alignment (having the same values)? Drama! Jim compares conservative and progressive values in corporations around DEI. Marlene encourages getting to know the other person and learning what it’s like to be in their shoes, whether or not you agree with them. Align with them. [40:05] The real problem is we’re saying, “Just like them” or “Not one of us.” We need to stop doing that. There’s room for all, we just have to be willing to build that capacity and to be a little bit uncomfortable with it. That’s what conflict capacity is about. Be willing to be wrong and be open. [41:17] The story you tell is the life you live. Whatever narrative you think or feel about yourself, is the source of your suffering. The good news is your story can also be the source of your “salvation.” You can shift your story and see other things that are equally true and explore that.[42:18] Marlene found that you can only coach a regulated person. If someone’s in their story and they're upset, all you can do is be a radical listener. You cannot coach someone that’s not self-regulated. Marlene loves that you can help a person shift their story, and create a new possibility. [43:09] How and why has Marlene changed her identity several times? Marlene was a blue-collar factory worker for 21 years. She wanted something more. She had to learn business practices the hard way because you don’t know what you don’t know. She first identified with being a professional speaker. As she became more aware of business practices, she realized she was not as good as she thought! [44:36] Going from a front-line worker to a supervisor gives you a new identity and it can be completely overwhelming if you haven’t believed, accepted, and felt that you are in that place. You have to feel it. [45:03] Marlene explains three life tragedies that occur mid-life: 1. I know I want something more but I don’t know what it is. 2. I know what it is but I don’t believe it’s possible. 3. I know what it is and it might be possible, but now I have to be willing. Willingness is the fulcrum point of change. In any tragedy, you don’t have clarity. You have to be willing to discover, develop, and deliver. Find your purpose. [47:55] If you’re stuck, confused, in drama, or conflict, clarity can change any situation. Marlene’s job is to hear the stories of the parties she coaches and help them get clear, and they will know the answer.   Quotable Quotes “We are all afraid of conflict … and so … we try to avoid it. I call it the three ‘A’s: Appeasing, Aggression, and Avoidance.” “Generally, we mismanage [conflict] because we have an inner conflict first.” “Watch your narrative. Don’t believe everything that you think.” “I could be right, but I might be wrong and there might be one missing piece. … If I’m feeling that angry, instead of interpreting it as I’ve got all the facts, that means, I’ve got to have more information … because that helps me to calm down.” “The question I always ask is, ‘Are you willing to be wrong?’ Or, ‘Am I willing to be wrong?’ Because nothing happens until there’s willingness. … Willingness is the fulcrum point of change.” “If I haven’t been willing, it means I’m in a state of resistance.” “In the long run, aligning with your values and what you promised your customer is what’s  going to serve you. … What is the point of being profitable and being successful if you are miserable because you don’t understand alignment?” “My definition for leadership is that if leadership is about anything, it’s about alignment and alignment is about focusing energy.” “The owner wants to get to the treasure chest on the island, the leader wants everybody to row harder and faster, and the rower just wants a better seat cushion on the boat. As a consultant … it’s about looking at all the perspectives.” “You will never lose by deciding to be intentional about how you form relationships and how you treat other people.” “If you’ve messed up for a while, which is generally where I come in, what you have to do is you have to start with a clean slate and you have to own the part you played. Because you cannot set a new boundary out of the blue. It will make people your enemy.” “If you care more about them understanding than you do about your boundary, that’s where you’re going to be a poor leader.” “Wherever there’s drama, there’s always a lack of clarity.” “That’s what conflict capacity is about, ‘I’m uncomfortable with your ideas and thoughts and it’s OK that I’m uncomfortable. I might change my mind if I’m willing to be wrong. And you might change yours if you’re willing to be open.’” “If you’re stuck or you’re confused, or you’re in drama or conflict, there’s something that I live by, and that’s: ‘Clarity can change any situation.’”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Marlene’s new book: Marlene’s previous books: (Out of stock)