The Leadership Podcast

Audrey Darley Welch heads up the partner program for Darley Defense, W.S. Darley & Company’s military distribution business and its largest division. Her team manages the company’s partnerships with key suppliers of tactical and fire-fighting products and services. In this episode, Audrey shares lessons she learned from working in various industries and now at Darley. She tells how she adapts to working in a male-oriented field, how she applies sports metaphors to her team, and what she learned from bad assumptions.    Key Takeaways [2:09] Audrey originally had intended to become a high school math teacher and volleyball coach. But she didn’t realize you had to be a calculus whiz to teach algebra! She decided to go into finance, instead. She is still passionate about sports and coaching. [3:01] Darley, a family-owned business of four generations, has a family employment policy that requires family members to work outside the business for a period before joining Darley. Audrey had not planned to work at Darley. She started a banking career after college. After three years, she considered joining Darley. For a year she went to board meetings and shareholder meetings and researched Darley. [3:53] When Audrey decided she wanted to join Darley, she wrote an application essay. The open position was a dealer development person for Darley’s legacy pump division. She got the job and spent a year working in that area but it was not the ideal position for her background in finance and relationship management. [4:28] Audrey was interested in getting exposure to different areas of the business. She found a position in supplier relationship management in the Defense Division. It was a job she was weel-qualified for and she has been working in the supplier relationship function for the last seven years. [5:40] Working at a large bank before coming to Darley allowed Audrey to see how big companies do things, their policies, and their structure. She was able to see what her strengths were at work. The largest thing she learned was the discipline and accountability of being part of a professional organization. [7:03] Audrey feared before joining Darley that she would have to follow her father’s leadership style. He is an extrovert and Audrey is introverted. Audrey’s advice to the next generation would be to be natural. She also advises the next generation to find out what fresh ideas the business needs to set it up for success, respecting the secret sauce, the family. Darley has had 300% growth in the last five years. [10:01] Audrey doesn’t have a problem with being an offspring, the fourth generation, or being a woman in a male-dominated field. She works well with her male cousins and men in the industry. She goes on pheasant hunts, fishing, and to the Wisconsin supper clubs with the men, so being a woman didn’t make a difference to her career. Audrey describes a Wisconsin supper club, for those unfamiliar. [12:34] Audrey talks about one’s personal responsibility to pursue professional development. Especially in the family business environment, it’s all about initiative. She doesn’t expect her generation to be nurtured in the business. Each person needs to pave their own way. Audrey recommends a career map with a “From-To” statement and figuring out what kind of experiences you need to get there. [15:26] Does Audrey want to be President? At Darley, there is no job description for President; currently, the CEO, President, and Chairman are all the same person. So Audrey went ahead and developed a job description for the President as she sees it and as she thinks she would do well in that role, and where they can split off CEO responsibilities. She finds those types of exercises to be very refreshing. [17:25] Soon, the fourth generation will get together to talk about all the positions and get clarity on succession planning. Everybody at Darley has worn a lot of different hats, and it’s time to separate their roles, especially of the senior leadership team. [18:51] In a mid-level role like Audrey’s, leadership is tough. She has five direct reports and will soon have six. The company is trying to scale, with top-level goals, and every team is checking that their goals align with the company goals, but managers may not realize they do not align with cross-functional team goals. Audrey shares a misstep she had made with goals that impacted the Sales Team’s goals. [22:11] Audrey presented to senior management in a virtual meeting the initiative she had developed. When she heard “crickets,” she knew something was wrong. She started getting pushback from sales and business development. Her incorrect assumptions had damaged her trust level across departments. Sales reps started having friction with account managers. Get feedback! Silence is not compliance! [24:46] Audrey ties a lot of her leadership to sports and the volleyball she played in school. She was the setter in volleyball, setting her teammates up for success. The setter is usually named the captain of the team because they’re running the plays. At work, she considers herself the captain of her team, and the coach. Audrey is concerned about perfecting the fundamentals. [25:46] Audrey’s volleyball coach had her do 1,000 repetitions against the wall before coming out for a game to start setting people up in the warm-up. She uses repetition at Darley, focusing on strategies and core competencies. [27:30] Sports metaphors may not work for everybody. Audrey says something that applies to almost all sports is never to sacrifice form for speed. That’s how you get injured. Slow down to speed up. [28:45] Government contract bids need to be submitted within 72 hours. Audrey says that cutting corners on supplier due diligence can cause problems. Darley’s core value is integrity, and speed is not integrity. Never bypass your core values. [31:54] Audrey tells how she achieves work-life balance. She has her priorities straight. Even so, when she chooses personal over business or business over personal, sometimes there is some guilt felt. Her husband helps. Figure out work patterns with your partner or whoever is helping you with all this and get into a routine. [34:38] Audrey does not think remote work will go away. Audrey prefers hybrid to all-remote. About 60% of companies are offering remote work. It’s not a fad. Audrey values in-person collaboration. She values in-person collaboration time in the office. That can be managed in two-to-three days. Remote doesn’t work for every position. Audrey’s quality of life has drastically improved through hybrid work. [37:08] Audrey comments on what veterans can do to have a successful transition to business life. Veterans at Darley are very aligned with and connected to the mission, which catapults their careers forward. The biggest challenge is understanding the business world. You need to be flexible and wear different hats. You may be uncomfortable. Getting an MBA before coming to Darley helps a lot. [40:21] Three points that will help anyone transitioning into the business world: 1. Be curious, 2. Be adaptable, and 3. Figure out ways to be confident without knowing everything about everything. [41:04] Audrey’s closing thought for listeners: Build your sounding board early. Besides joining forums, having mentors, and tapping the knowledge of the board of directors, it is most important to participate in a peer group to help you get where you want to go. [42:37] Closing quote: Remember, “There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that is your own self.” —Aldous Huxley   Quotable Quotes “I found out that I’m very detail-oriented and I do like relationship management on the customer side.” — Audrey “Are we setting up the future of the business for success with the way that we have it? Right now, we’ve had 300% growth over the last five years.” — Audrey “When it comes to building trust and relationships, I’m out there doing the pheasant hunts, and the fishing, and the beer-drinking, and the supper clubs in Wisconsin up near our plant, and all that. So I don’t think [being a woman] really did play a role.” — Audrey “I ran through, ‘This is what it means for the division, this is what it means for sales.’ I was trying to highlight all the good things that would come from an initiative like this. … It was like ‘crickets.’ … Sometimes not hearing anything at all can be a message.” — Audrey “[Sports] is where it all started. And I still do, I tie a lot of it back to sports, or even just fitness, in general. I was a setter in volleyball, very much the quarterback or the point guard equivalent. You’re setting people up for success.” — Audrey “You won’t hear me say I don’t value that in-person collaboration time.” — Audrey “We’re a distributor and we sell a lot of different types of products, we call on a lot of different types of customers. … They may not feel as comfortable. … Everybody’s bought into the importance of the equipment we sell.” — Audrey   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Dr. Marianne Lewis is renowned for her research on the paradoxes of leadership and is coauthor, with Wendy Smith, of Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Greatest Problems. The conversation covers how we can learn to think about paradoxes, and why tension is necessary for balance - and to achieve innovation.       Key Takeaways [2:14] Marianne grew up with a father in academia. She was determined not to be a professor in academia. In her rebellion, she came to the Midwest to find her space. And she loves Cincinnati and is absolutely in academia, studying leaders. [3:51] Marianne addresses why “both/and” thinking is essential for emotional balance and rational behavior. [5:25] Marianne refers to James March’s teachings about the complexity and messiness of the world we live in and bounded rationality, meaning there’s just so much one can take in. We do what we need to do to get by in a busy, complicated, messy world that pushes us toward looking at our tensions and dilemmas as “either/or” trade-offs. [7:08] A few years ago, Marianne and her team built a psychological “instrument” they call a paradox mindset. They’ve studied thousands of people in multiple languages. From their observations, it appears that the way we think is learned. Your ability to manage tensions appears to do with how often you deal with tensions and how much you try to embrace and work through them. More study is to come. [9:45] Paradox thinking and systems thinking are related. A “both/and” thinker tends to think more in systems, looking for interactions and feedback loops. Systems thinking involves looking at complexity in context and in new ways. “Both/and” thinking adds to looking for the value in tensions as you work through the complexity to find more creative and more lasting solutions to your problems. [11:18] There are tensions between things and between systems, but the important tensions are between individuals. Marianne has worked in this field for 25 years, 20 of them with Wendy. They found three factors that intensify the experience of tensions: Change. Today is becoming tomorrow faster. Scarcity. As soon as you feel that you’re slicing the pie thinner, you feel tension. Plurality. A multiplicity of stakeholders with pressures that differ. [12:13] We’re in the perfect storm of change, scarcity, and plurality. We are living in tensions in our lives, organizations, and society. The tensions are interwoven across levels and facets. [13:48] Vicious cycles reinforce errors in our thinking. Marianne talks about three vicious cycles: Going down the rabbit hole, or deep ruts of behavior. Overcorrecting in the opposite direction. Polarization. Shouting, diminishing each other, and doing anything but listening. [15:47] Get out of the trench by asking, “What are they thinking? What are they seeing? Can we learn?” [16:43] Virtuous cycles are reinforcing tendencies that help us navigate tensions. Marianne sees two patterns of virtuous cycles. One is Creative Integration, taking the best of two extremes, such as radical innovation and efficiency, and putting them together creatively. Marianne compares this to a mule, stronger than a horse and smarter than a donkey. Creative integration is rare. [18:13] The second pattern of virtuous cycles, Dynamic Balancing, is more common. Marianne compares this to tightrope walking; looking to the horizon while dealing with the present tensions. Don’t panic in tense moments; keep moving forward. You’ll learn as you do it. [21:01] Help people understand why embracing tensions and creative friction fosters opportunities for creativity, learning, and older innovations, moving forward. Marianne tells of Paul Polman when he was CEO of Unilever, who said Unilever would double its profits by reducing its environmental footprint. On every issue he discussed, he wanted to have tension on the team. He was provocative and purposeful. [24:22] “Either/or” and “both/and” thinking are both about decision-making. Uncertainty is potentially paralyzing for “either/or” thinkers. You don’t know what the right solution is and the right solution tomorrow may be different. But the point is to keep making decisions, having the confidence and the humility to know you can move forward, whatever the results are. Keep in mind your higher purpose. [26:06] The boundary around the tensions is what holds the elements together. Marianne is seeing an existential crisis in academia and business that strikes her as a lack of meaning. We need to be pushing harder on finding that boundary. [26:43] Is work a transaction of time for money, or does it have meaning and legacy? You serve other people and make their lives better. Leaders need to create an environment where people want to come and bring their best. If a company has a bunch of people in transaction mode, Jan puts it on the leaders. Marianne says it’s key for that leader to tap into why they are there. Make the transactions matter. [29:02] Marianne addresses the role of leaders to help us out of the malaise in our society, even in this wonderful world. First, ask why we feel that malaise. Richard Farson wrote of the paradox of rising expectations. At the lowest state, there’s no hope. As people realize the potential, as hope grows, the bar raises and people see what could be! The frustrations and protests rise. [30:20] The frustration should be encouraging to leaders. If your people are silent, either they don’t care or they are so far below the water that they don’t have time or energy to complain. The complaining is because people see that we could be ever better. The world is so polarized because we have very different views of how we get there. You get turf warfare between different sides with different ideas. [31:09] If we could agree that we all want a better world. There are lots of paths to get there. How do we listen and learn from each other? We need leaders, ourselves included, to make sure that raised bar says it’s about wanting a better world. It’s not about the how, it’s about what we want. Let’s have good debates and get the friction in the room and think about how we get there. [31:54] Sam Walker, author of The Captain Class, told about a study he did of the most successful sports teams in history. They had captains with unique characteristics that helped build the teams. They dealt with task conflicts and process conflicts but avoided personal conflicts at all costs. When people focus on the task or process, it is productive, not a personal attack. [33:20] Marianne discusses two sides of conflict: the destructive and the empowering. The difference is your focus: the person, feeling the emotion, or the task, the higher purpose, what you want to get done. When you focus on the person, things escalate in a way that is not productive. Some of us are going to have to model the way with different leadership styles. [34:31] Marianne is grateful every day to have a colleague like Wendy Smith. One of the reasons their partnership has been so productive is that they are really different. They have all sorts of differences but they found a lot of similarities. They want a better world, they believe in learning and innovation. While they were writing their book, they found themselves in many late-night deep discussions on challenges. [38:37] Marianne’s challenge to listeners: Start paying more attention to the questions you are asking. Are you asking “either/or” questions? Those questions immediately limit your options. Start asking more “both/and” questions, such as, “How do we make this world more sustainable and more productive?” [39:35] Closing quote: Remember, “How wonderful that we have met with a paradox. Now we have some hope of making progress!” — Niels Bohr   Quotable Quotes “We tend to define things by what they’re not. We think in terms of contrast. … You’re either ‘A’ or ‘Not-A.’ So we think in terms of opposites, even if those opposites aren’t actually direct contradictions. … The way we think … influences the way we feel.” — Marianne “We’re wired to have these heuristic shortcuts, these cognitive biases. … What we feel is completely logical but it might not be.” — Jim “People who have a greater paradox mindset, especially when they’re working or living in a world of tensions, … are more productive, more creative, and happier; more satisfied. … They see tensions as opportunities.” — Marianne “We use the analogy of a mule, which is stronger than a horse and smarter than a donkey.” — Marianne “I think about friction in two ways: 1. It can produce drag, or 2. It can produce traction.” — Jan “One way to think about how you hold together your tensions is [to ask] ‘What do you want this to be in the broader world?’” — Marianne “I’m sensing an existential crisis. I see it, whether in academia or business, and that strikes me as a sense of lack of meaning. We need to be pushing harder on ‘What is that boundary?’” — Marianne “For all the rising expectations going on around us and the frustration, the lack of listening and compassion is painful to me.” — Marianne “We wanted to write this book; we did not want this to be a purely business book. These same patterns and tools work at the individual level as a mother, as a friend, and we have seen powerful examples working at the societal level. ” — Marianne “I don’t want you to think what I think but I’d love us to be aligned with what we want in the end goal.” — Marianne   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Dr. Ciela Hartanov runs Humcollective, a boutique strategy and innovation firm that helps companies, executives, and teams make sense of the forces shaping our future and prepare strategically. In this episode, Ciela discusses the shift that will be needed to turn teaching leadership skills into teaching a leadership mindset. She discusses how and why sensitivity (not emotionalism) is needed more than ever at work. Listen in for an impressive view of the future of work and how that will shape our communities.     Key Takeaways [1:57] Ciela has a passion for the human experience inside of work. She believes it is important to put the human at the center of work. Ciela grew up with a father who was very interested in people and she traveled a lot with him. [3:29] The idea of work as a transaction comes from the Industrial Revolution and the assembly line. You work these hours, produce these widgets, and you get paid. Before the Industrial Revolution, you worked for yourself to build a life and had jobs inside the community, such as baker and candlestick maker, to build the community together. [5:37] Society is trying to break the transaction mindset. Because of the pandemic, there has been a reckoning and reconsideration of the employee/employer contract. Everyone’s responsible and we are making agreements together about what that contract is. [6:52] Ciela says we’ve been sold the idea that purpose is an individual pursuit. We are social beings. Ciela has learned through sociology that we are ourselves because we are reflected through other people. An individual’s purpose and meaning are within the context of society. Ciela is working to put us back within the context of our society. We don’t operate as solo individuals. [8:01] Before the pandemic, Ciela was worried that loneliness was an epidemic. People were using work to relieve their loneliness. Employers encouraged employees to be more connected to their organization and to have a “best friend” at work. This idea was disrupted by remote work. Individuals need to have their social needs met outside the organization. It's not enough to just be on your own. [10:05] Ciela doesn’t talk about transformation. She sees what is happening as a renewal of what it means to be alive as a human being. This is a new conversation in society. The Great Resignation is a philosophical conversation about what it means to be a human being and what it means to work. [11:54] Advances are happening that will impact human beings. But the human condition will always be evergreen. We are still discovering things about the human condition. Those things aren’t new, we just didn’t know them yet. The things that are new are technological advances and tools, like AI. [12:42] Ciela is studying Emergence and Emergent theory. It is a fundamental human condition that we don’t like uncertainty. We will be experiencing more and more uncertainty. Ciela helps organizations figure out how to tie the thread between the growing uncertainty and our dislike of it. [15:12] People will learn that adapting to change is an essential skill. Companies can teach their employees how to adapt to new requirements of a job. It is essential to have emotional resilience for the triggers that come with change. When Ciela was at Google, they spent years teaching people how to meditate. Meditation is a tool to regulate emotion inside a complex and challenging environment. [17:15] Humans are naturally curious and interested. We have it as children. The industrial era has stripped that out of us because it’s not efficient. You can’t measure creativity in the same way as productivity. Celia is writing a book. In her book, she talks about moving from the idea of knowledge work to perceptual work. Perceptual work involves perceiving what is happening around us. [19:07] After perceiving comes interpreting. This is a human skill, not a machine skill. When we gain insight, our creative mind sees it and considers the way forward to make a move. In uncertainty, making a move is an experiment. This requires rethinking organizational practices and patterns. There’s not a straight path from Point A to Point B anymore. [21:50] Ciela was on a team at Google that studied the future of leadership. She tells of the insight that led her to organize the study team. She held the position that we need to examine mindsets before we teach leadership skills. It’s like our operating system. If you don’t have the right operating system for the context, you’re never going to be able to demonstrate the right behavior. [25:06] The team developed six mindsets that matter. Ciela shares three of them: 1.) I must know myself and get over myself to be in the service of other people., 2.) Believe that being in uncertain terrain is progress and progress needs tension., 3.) Know that power is responsibility, and take that seriously when you sit in a leadership seat. [27:30] Teaching leadership skills before teaching mindset worked in a time of more certainty. We are in a time of uncertainty that requires a shift, a different way of working with leadership. Now we need to teach mindsets. [28:11] To be an employer of choice, you could offer your employees the ability to gain transferable skills to be able to have a lattice career. Today’s younger employees have more clarity about their values, purpose, and mindset. Ciela would like employers to bolster that and help them gain the skills that are not being taught in school. Organizations have to train skills that are lacking in the talent pool. [29:36] Ciela is writing a book, Reclaiming Sensitivity, due out in 2023. We generally misunderstand what sensitivity is. Sensitivity is the ability to perceive. Let’s reclaim our innate human ability to perceive, both through our emotional attunement and our ability to plan and get curious — the original definition of sensitivity in its widest capacity. One chapter is devoted to making sense of uncertain terrain. [34:36] Jan asks if sensitivity will become the rule in Fortune 500 companies. Ciela replies “Yes, and,” because we haven’t evolved to the new era of work. There is a place for execution, and that’s when you are not in a complex domain. But the level of complexity will start pushing further into the organization and we need to shift our mindset to be ready. We’re not there yet. [38:16] Growing up, Ciela traveled the world with her father. She shares how travel shaped her views on perceiving. Her father taught her to travel like a local. She learned to go inside other peoples’ experiences, versus being on the periphery. Someone in the gig economy must be first understood from an anthropological view before you can have insight and work with them. [41:07] Ciela talks about a study she did at Google about what makes someone able to shift, adjust and be a transformative leader. She found two things: 1.) They were able to find their stable ground — such as a daily workout, and 2.) They were incredibly good at perspective-taking and perceiving. They could transform because they could perceive but also had stable ground from which to move. [42:14] Ciela’s closing thought: Leaders feel tired and burnt out. They “don’t have time for innovation; it’s too hard!” Ciela acknowledges there’s a real tension around the pressures of being a leader right now. Don’t let that blindside you from focusing on what matters, which is paving a path for the future. Open your eyes and start perceiving and thinking about the innovative way out of the uncertainty. [43:43] Closing quote: Remember, “Each person does see the world in a different way. There is not a single, unifying, objective truth. We're all limited by our perspective.” —   Quotable Quotes “Once people came off of the farms and working for themselves to build a life, and moved into the assembly line and the factory, then it was an exchange. You work these hours, you work on this timeline, you produce this number of widgets; … and then you get money.” — Ciela “If you look before the Industrial Revolution, a lot of what we understood about work was also related to community. So, we each had a job inside the community to build the community together.” — Ciela “We had the baker, we had the candlestick maker; we had all the different functions, but the idea inside those functions was that you were building a society and a community together.” — Ciela “We don’t operate as solo individuals. Nothing gets done unless there’s a collective effort and a collective meaning.” — Ciela “Fresh perspectives are required to thrive in an ever-changing context.” — Ciela “We are naturally wired to be curious and interested. We have this innate interest as human beings.” — Ciela “I actually think we need a fundamental restructuring so that that new perspective, that fresh insight, can be part of the strategy process; they can be part of the systems and so that it gets encouraged and then rewarded.” — Ciela “Unless you believe that tension is a good thing and is valuable, you’re never going to be able to work with it.” — Ciela “[Skills] are expiring so quickly and if you want to be an employer of choice you do have to offer the ability for people to gain skills — transferable skills — and be able to shift and to have more of a lattice career versus a ladder career.” — Ciela “It’s not a waste of time to bring people into a sense-making exercise because that is how you make progress. Because progress needs tension. And that is a whole different way of understanding how you interact and deal with a complex domain.” — Ciela “At the center of all of work are human beings and the experience that we are having.” — Ciela   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Reclaiming Sensitivity (scheduled to be published in 2023)

Jim and Jan discuss the latest crucible expeditions to hopefully inspire and uplift you! Jan has led 21 crucible expeditions to date, and through the diversity of executives and military veterans, they keep providing new insights. Participants come by invitation (or application), and are selected for selflessness, an adventurous spirit, and possessing heroic aspirations to make a difference in the lives of others. Jan’s process is to design the experience, select the participants, get them together, and step back to let them learn and grow as a team, as the magic happens. Participants learn they have more in common than they have differences and strong bonds are formed. Listen in to learn how some of these lessons can apply to your organization.     Key Takeaways [2:03] In this episode, Jan and Jim recap some learnings from two recent back-to-back crucible expeditions that Jan completed. A crucible expedition with Jan is a four-day, three-night wilderness expedition with executives who need a digital detox coupled with military veterans who are transitioning to the business world. The veterans are mostly from the Special Operations community. [3:02] Participants go rock-climbing and backpacking in the middle of nowhere. Really great people get together for some great conversations. Jan selects the executives and veterans on three criteria: they are people who are trying to be as selfless as possible for the greater good, are adventurous, and possess heroic aspirations to try and make the world a better place, in things beyond power and money. [3:57] By selecting those criteria, they get a bunch of strangers coming together as a team very quickly. Based on work Jan has done with surveys by PAIRIN, he believes that when people are out there with strangers, unlike with work colleagues, they have nothing to prove, protect, or promote. [4:24] Jim has been on the Patagonia and Moab crucibles and he attests that they are incredible experiences that move you in ways you would never expect. Jan has done 21 crucible expeditions so far. [5:34] Jan has found that his talent lies not in charismatic leadership but in designing the environment and culture for the team, stepping back, staying out of the way, and letting the magic happen. Jan shares his critique of an expedition Jim was on a few years ago. He says he should have stepped away more and guided things and discussions through questions. [7:30] Jan shares a crucible learning for your work. There is one person in charge, and the second person is the accountability partner. If the leader takes a wrong turn, the accountability partner lets them make the mistake and learn from it. We don’t grow and develop without making and correcting mistakes. Let your people at work learn and develop from their mistakes. [10:09] On the crucibles, you’ve got executives that are making the time and space for their improvement. Jan just spoke to someone who loved the outdoor aspect of the crucible and feels like she needs more time off. Jan tells executives to find the sweet spot between sitting on the hill, figuring out what their team needs, and getting with the team, working with them, and coaching them, first-hand. [11:44] Executive coaches work to try to get people to move from being “here,” doing “these things,” to being “there,” doing “those things.” It takes self-discipline, sacrifice, focus, delegation, and trust to get there. That’s where accountability partners come in, plus taking time to reflect. Jan tells about the three-hour solo challenge of silent alone-time, thinking for three hours, and reporting on it later. [13:30] The bedrock of the crucible is that people relate to each other as humans, that they're vulnerable. People are dealing with a lot on the homefront and the things they are struggling with come up in their first meeting. Often it is family stuff. The idea that it’s OK not to be OK comes through. At work, senior leaders have to be strong and act in a certain way to get performance from other people. [14:49] On a crucible, people let their guard down. They might cry around the campfire or climbing a mountain, even though they never cry. In some ways, their crying and vulnerability bring the team together. It’s a gift to show your real emotions. It’s not a gift stoic people share at work. And everybody on the crucible is equal. [16:25] Jim summarizes that vulnerability is the resounding theme of a crucible. You are put in a situation where you are physically vulnerable. In the evening discussions, people became more mentally and emotionally vulnerable. Jan believes that whiskey helps. He has seen it. Jim is still close to people from both of his crucible trips in a different way than his golfing buddies. [18:09] When you go out there as a business executive, having little to no experience with veterans, or the elite operators who go on these expeditions, you might think you have nothing in common with them. You come away with respect that goes both ways. You see the military in a different light. The folks in the military now see civilians in a different light. [18:56] Only one percent of the population in America has anything to do with the military. It has become a family business. Most of those families are from the South. The military is very insular. You’re around people that think, act, and talk like you. Your world is filled with military acronyms. The military spends money. You’re not in the generate revenue, create demand business. [20:03] A lot of the leadership and people challenges are very similar between the military and business. In the past two years, twice, a special operations commando who has carried a flag under his body armor on multiple missions decided to give that flag to executive participants from the crucible — they were flags that could have draped a body if the operator had not survived a mission. [21:37] A crucible changes people’s lives. After the Patagonia crucible, Jim took a fork in the road that he might not have taken before the crucible. Jim says when you spend the time and get to know other people, you’re much more similar than you think. That kind of experience is something to keep in mind when you look at our divisive society. Take the time to listen to people and gain their perspectives. [22:51] On one trip, sitting around the fire at the end, a leader said it was interesting that “none of us talked about politics or religion. I’m guessing, politically, we go from left to right and in-between. Look how great we got along. This is what Americans should be about.” It was a powerful moment. Each participant was only in the category of human with heroic aspirations beyond power and money. [24:24] The crucible cannot scale. It cannot be done with big groups in wilderness areas and some people couldn’t or wouldn’t do it. So, Jan is writing a book about it with a co-author who is a past crucible participant and military veteran. [25:01] There was little diversity in the first expeditions. Jan credits Sheryl Tullis with helping him make the teams intentionally diverse and representative of the workforce. Jan believes that the men bring out the best in the women participants and vice versa. Jan marvels at the self-confidence of some of the recent diverse participants. They know who they are and what they bring to the table. [27:52] One reason a recent expedition was so good was that there was diversity of age, gender, geography, and company size. The veterans were thoughtful, deliberate, cerebral people, deeply curious about the business world they were going into. These trips are about what happens in the one-on-one discussions as you’re walking down the trail, and in the evening discussions around the fire.  [29:35] U.S. Navy SEAL Master Chief Stephen Drum has been on the podcast. He is writing a book and Jim is reading the preliminary manuscript for him. Stephen writes that when SEALS wash out, it is never about physical fitness. It’s always about lacking strength of character, conviction, or values. Some of the strongest people on a crucible are strongest in character. [31:17] Jan mentions Don Yaeger, a Sports Illustrated writer and author of many books about great athletes. Don says all great athletes hate to lose more than they like to win. The reason Jan became a Green Beret is that he did not quit. He was 18 years old. More than he wanted to win, he did not want to fail. [32:32] In the business world, at some point things are going to be hard. There’s always something nagging at you that says, “Quit.” If what you are doing is aligned with your values, then you won’t quit. If it’s not aligned with your values, it doesn’t serve you. [33:33] Steve Drotter, a previous guest of the podcast with old-school values, said, “A career is made from having hard jobs that suck and bosses that beat you up. That makes a career!” Today, it seems the job caters to the employee. There is a supply-and-demand issue. The workplace is not as tough as it used to be. [34:50] Jan is hearing from the Army and the Marines that young people entering the services have no outdoor experience; no woodcraft or fieldcraft. Jan wonders what’s happening in the business world where people come in without knowing certain things! Jim observes that their writing is atrocious. But now we don’t write long business reports, we write Powerpoints. Expectations have changed. [36:54] Job conditions wax and wane, and we may go back to a more tough work environment in a few years, where employers have the upper hand, instead of the employees. These are the leadership challenges we have. [37:38] Jan’s last words: The crucibles are a passion and a privilege. The only way you’re going to change your narrative is to step out of your comfort zone. Whether you go on a crucible or do something else, Jan and Jim encourage you to think about the things where you find purpose and meaning, where you can make a contribution to the greater good, and be bold and make things happen. [39:14] Closing quote: “Twice and thrice over, as they say, good is it to repeat and review what is good.” — Plato.   Quotable Quotes “We select the executives and the veterans based on three criteria: We’re looking for people that are trying to be as selfless as possible, … We look for people that are adventurous, … and … people who possess heroic aspirations, trying to make the world a better place.” — Jan “Most of the time I come back from a trip and I beat myself up. … I evaluate my own leadership, and participation performance, and think, ‘Woulda, coulda, shoulda.’ I do think one thing I’ve gotten better at is doing less.” — Jan “What I have found, at least for me, is my talent isn’t necessarily at being the charismatic leader; it’s really being a pretty darn good designer. By that I mean if I design the environment, the culture, for the team, and I step back and stay out of the way, magic happens.” — Jan “I will say, even at my advanced age, I’m still a work in progress.” — Jan “The lesson won’t be learned the same if you go, ‘Wait, wait, I can fix this!’. I talked to somebody today that said, ‘I do way too many Powerpoints. I should be delegating those and I do way too many because it’s just easier and faster for me to do it.’” — Jan “Delegation is usually at the top three of things that people can work on to improve. … People never have the time to delegate. They never have the time and space to do it right or to think they even have the opportunity to do it. And it just is a self-fulfilling prophecy.” — Jim “What we’re very intentional about, and what always ends up being the big takeaway, is you’ve got to slow down to speed up. Especially for executives, you’ve got to figure out the sweet spot between going and sitting on the hill and figuring things out” — Jan “One of the things that we try to do on every crucible is give people three hours. We call it the solo challenge. In some ways, it’s the hardest thing people do is go be by themselves, doing nothing for three hours except thinking.” — Jan “Out there, people just let their guard down. People sometimes will cry around the campfire. Sometimes they’ll cry going up the mountain and they’ll say, ‘I never cry. I — never — cry.’ Did anybody care that you cried? No. … Crying and vulnerability brought the team together.” — Jan “You can really build some warm and strong relationships with people you might think are so different from you that you could never, ever have anything in common with them.” — Jim   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Joe McCormack is the author of “BRIEF: Make a Bigger Impact by Saying Less,” and “Noise: Living and Leading When Nobody Can Focus.” He founded the Brief Lab in 2013 after years dedicated to developing and delivering a unique curriculum for US Army Special Operations. He actively counsels military leaders and senior executives on effective, efficient communication, and produces the podcast, “Just Saying.” In this conversation, he shares the keys to thinking clearly to get to the root cause of a problem and explain the way forward, simply, concisely, and effectively.     Key Takeaways [2:45] Joe is the sixth of nine children in his Irish Catholic family. His early career includes a period of aerospace marketing in the aviation field before he started a marketing agency. [4:28] Joe’s executive message about communication is “Less is more.” You don’t need to say much but what you say needs to count. Leaders tend to overwhelm people with information. Be more careful and calculating to be concise. You want to say more but people can’t hear it. [6:16] Joe explains why people say too much; a lack of time to prepare, the fear of not giving enough information, the fear of looking stupid, and the fear of failing to handle every contingency. It’s never just one of these things; it’s all of them. [6:45] People need to consider, “What does my audience need?” They don’t need six paragraphs. They’re craving brevity. They want two. Give the audience what they want: two well-written paragraphs. More paragraphs will dilute the message and diminish your impact. [7:54] When Joe wrote Brief he considered what was the most essential thing to say in the shortest time given. But don’t be too brief. Say what is necessary. When you learn the skills, you can use brevity consistently. There’s a payoff for people that have the skillset. [10:30] Joe asks people three questions about executive summaries: “Have you ever heard the term ‘executive summary’?” “Have you ever had a developer deliver one?” “Has anybody ever taught you how to build one?” People’s answers are normally, Yes, Yes, and No. If they say Yes to the third, Joe asks them how to build one. They don’t get it right. [11:33] Three questions to answer that will make a great executive summary: “What are you talking about?” “Why are we talking about this right now?” “So what now; what next?” [13:26] Joe teaches people the habit of briefly summarizing their message. It’s different than just knowing it. It’s a habitual way of thinking, speaking, and stopping from talking. [15:09] Fortune 500 corporations and Special Operations are alike in some ways. They both have high standards and expectations and they need to deliver, either for ROI or mission success. In the military, there is a lot of training. Corporations are starting to adopt more training. Since COVID-19 businesses are looking to attract talent. Communication and collaboration are how businesses work. [16:59] Collaboration works in moderation. Microsoft came out with a recent study that shows what people want most from their workplace is autonomy. They want to be left alone to think, and then when they collaborate, it’s better. If you don’t give people time to think about a problem, they come up with an answer on the fly. Deep problems don’t get solved on the fly, but only after thinking and then talking. [22:18] When planning a meeting, take 10 minutes of quiet. Then sit down and create an agenda of what you want to talk about; think about it, write it, and edit it. Then send it and follow it. It works. [23:09] There’s a time for collaboration, talking, and doing, and there’s a time for thinking. You have to figure out in your role, and what that time allotment is. Once you get that, you’re not doing too much or too little, you’re doing your job. Joe heard of a CEO who said, “I don’t think at work; I’m in meetings all the time.” The CEO needs time to think at work. [25:34] As leaders, you need to make a quiet appointment with yourselves for a set amount of time every day. During the appointment, write down things that you need to be thinking about; “How do I get feedback from my employees?” or “What’s wrong with my current work situation?” Make the appointment and don’t miss it. [28:42] Joe’s 15-minute podcast, Just Saying, comes from the classes he teaches to Special Operations teams about concise communications that are effective. [30:15] Joe’s book, Noise, is about the correlation between clear thinking and lowering noise levels. If you don’t manage the noise, your thoughts are scattered. If your thoughts are scattered, your speech is scattered. Ineffective leaders are scattered because they haven’t thought about what they are doing and why they are doing it. They start by talking. Clear thinking leads to concise communication. [31:56] When addressing a problem, ask yourself how much you think about it and how well you think about it. Do you dedicate enough time to thinking about your business? Are you constantly getting distracted in your thinking time? If you do 20 minutes of quiet every day, your thinking will be better. You won’t excel at it at first, but make it a daily habit and you will get better at it and get focused. [34:49] Tips from Brief: You need Awareness: It’s important to be clear and concise. Discipline: Talk and stop talking when needed. Decisiveness: Know when to act and then act. Jim calls these traits a virtuous circle and compares them to the skills of a running back in a football game. [39:37] People have different ways of thinking. Some people need to think about stuff more and some people are quick to answer. There are strengths and weaknesses to both types of people. Make sure the people around you know your processing style. [41:15] Joe shares a success story. A client was able to frame and reframe what he was doing, why he was doing it, what the value was to the organization, how he was doing it, and how he was measuring the impact in a presentation to the board. They didn’t cut a dime from his budget. If you can’t state your work in those clear terms, people will default to thinking it’s not that important, and you will get cut. [44:05] Joe tells of a military client. The skill of being clear, concise, easy to understand, and easy to follow is valuable. In the middle of a briefing, a general asked Joe’s client, who was presenting, “Where did you learn to brief like that?” If everyone else is terrible at it and you’re good at it, all of a sudden, you’re the tallest person in the room. It takes time to prepare for that. [46:21] When Joe presents to a group he focuses on the audience and how they are alike. The common denominator is they all want the shorter version! They may want to know more but they all crave a clear and concise answer. He provides a clear and concise answer. If they want more, he provides a clear and longer answer. Then, if they want more, he provides the clearest and longest explanation. [48:06] Jan and Jim spend a lot of time helping people to focus. A previous guest of the podcast, Brian Caulfield told them “Sell the problem, not the solution.” No one has time and everyone is selling a solution. Joe’s Brief method is a recipe for managing time and figuring out the root cause of a problem. [49:25] Joe’s challenge: Take time and quiet to think about it. Schedule it. Use quiet to your advantage, however much you need. Then talk. Think before you speak. And then do something. Those are separate things. You think about it quietly. You lower the noise. You start to get a root cause. Then you can say the most important thing (not the things). Then watch people say, “I got it! Now I know what to do.” [52:13] Closing quote: “Brevity is the soul of wit.” — William Shakespeare.   Quotable Quotes “To be an elite communicator is to embrace a different standard, which is ‘Less is more. I don't need to say so much but what I say needs to count.’” “It’s hard because you want to say more but people can’t hear it.” “There’s a famous quote, which is, ‘I would have written you a shorter letter if I had more time.” “I wrote a 220-page book on brevity. That almost made me insane. Because you start to think about, what really is the most essential thing to say in the shortest amount of time given? That really takes some thought.” “If you’re pitching an investor, that investor has this aperture or window of interest and what you say needs to sit inside that window. And that takes a lot of consideration. What does that person care about? What’s the most important thing? Why am I doing this?” “What I teach people is the habit of doing [a summary]. It’s different from just knowing it.” “There’s quality collaboration and then there’s terrible collaboration. [In a meeting] the collaboration is poor. They talk at each other, they don’t prepare, it’s disorganized, it’s scattered, and people don’t listen.” “You ask people when do you prepare for meetings and how do you prepare for meetings and often the answer is, ‘I can’t because I’m in a meeting. I’m constantly collaborating, leaving me no time to prepare for the next meeting.’” “If you don’t give people a chance to think about it, they’re coming up with the answer on the fly. Deep problems don’t get solved on the fly. They get solved when you actually have to slow down and think about it. And then you say something.” “Great leaders have the humility to say ‘I’m going to think about it. I’m going to have others think about it. I’m going to come up with a solution and then I’m going to explain it in the simplest terms possible and hope it works!’”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Dr. Zoe Chance is a professor at the Yale School of Management, and is the author of Influence Is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen. Her framework for behavior change is the foundation for Google’s global food policy. In this conversation, Zoe describes forms of influence and discusses how good relationships lead to good work. She challenges the people to use influence for the greater good, not just for individual purposes.     Key Takeaways [2:11] Zoe, a sci-fi fan, named her daughter Ripley after Ellen Ripley from Aliens. [5:16] Almost all of us, even the most successful, have negative feelings about influence strategies or tactics, but almost all of us would also like to be more influential. Influence has a bad rap. We think of it as distasteful. With new science, Zoe is bringing back the idea of influence as a leadership trait. [7:06] People have different definitions of influence and manipulation. Zoe considers influence to be anything that shifts someone’s thinking or behavior, including manipulation, persuasion, behavioral economics, coercion, military might, and incentives. Manipulation is someone trying to influence a person in an underhanded way with a motive that does not align with the well-being of the person. [8:13] Behavioral economics nudges are mostly imperceptible, but would not be upsetting to people being influenced for their best interest, such as attempts to get people to save more for retirement. [9:48] Over the past year, up to the rise of bad inflation, employees have had a lot of power, and companies were desperate to hire. There’s been a crisis in the service industry. Now the power is shifting to employers. They want people to be there but, for the most part, they don’t have good reasons for wanting people to be there. Humu’s Laszlo Bock asks, “Why, to look over their shoulder?” [11:51] Jan, Zoe, and Jim discuss whether most companies need to have their employees in the office, and how the return to the office is being handled. [13:51] Jim finds that in-person meetings are much more effective than online meetings that are filled with side-text meetings within the meeting. Jim also observes the need to train new college graduates in the culture of the organization. A culture needs to be maintained and groomed like a garden and that happens better in person. [15:31] Zoe would like to see leaders be better able to create the culture that they want. Bringing people back to the office to experience a negative culture is a horrible plan. [17:19] Jim contrasts the freedom of travel and the restrictions of the cube farm he experienced early in his career. He didn’t like working in a cube and it affected his career. Now, since the pandemic, everyone has enjoyed freedom, and once freedom has been enjoyed it’s hard for it to be taken away. Zoe says taking freedoms and privileges away will cause a rebellion; she shares an example from a bank. [20:26] Zoe shares a story featuring the Magic Question “What would it take for that to never happen again?”, and how to use it. It acknowledges that the people you are trying to influence know much more about their life than you do. It’s not perceived as pressure to follow your advice and it can lead to a commitment to the positive outcome you want. [26:05] Zoe gives a shoutout to the veterans who come through the Yale School of Management. The professors love to have veterans in their classes because they are good listeners, and pay attention to the professors, their colleagues, and their classmates. They amplify other people’s ideas and ask follow-up questions; they only speak when they feel they have something important to share. [28:16] Zoe tells about her TEDx talk, “How to Make a Behavior Addictive.” She tells how a pedometer injured her body, her marriage, and her relationships. She is vulnerable to technology. Social media is addictive because it’s designed carefully to keep your attention. There is evidence that social media does much more harm than good. Zoe has studied the psychology that makes people want to come back. [31:28] Zoe explains the manipulative and negative power of variable intermittent rewards. If someone is using variable intermittent rewards to manipulate you, it’s an unhealthy relationship. Social media does that to us constantly. [35:38] Zoe shares advice for leaders on having difficult conversations involving challenging feedback. Have these conversations as soon as you realize that there’s something amiss, ideally, that day. If you are giving criticism, the longer you wait, the more betrayed the person feels because you’ve been harboring resentment against them. Having the practice of bringing it up as soon as you can is life-changing. [39:35] How can you have more power within your organization? Internalize the idea that good work comes from good relationships. Reach out to get to know challenging people in other departments and ask questions. “How is this going for you? It’s kind of been a struggle for me and I’d like to understand your perspective.” It’s hard for people not to like you when you reach out and connect with them. [41:42] Research shows men’s social and professional networks overlap a lot while women’s social and professional networks do not. If you are a woman, Zoe advises you to reach out to women and men at work, especially if you’re not already friends with lots of people at work. You will find a friendly rapport and reciprocity that leads to things happening more easily. Men usually have better networks. [43:41] As Zoe was writing Influence Is Your Superpower, she asked a group of people about negotiations. Only 40% of men and 17% of women said they like or love negotiating. When she asked another group to describe their most recent negotiation, their adjectives were overwhelmingly positive. About 80% of them had had a good result and felt empowered! [47:54] Zoe discusses power in an organization. Influence works the same in leadership and relationships. The idea that a leader should never apologize because apologizing gives up power is wrong to Zoe. You build a lot of social capital by apologizing at the right time, in the right way, and by taking responsibility. That’s powerful! [49:44] Zoe provides an anecdote that listeners can copy about a leader raising his status by sharing the spotlight. Jess Cain VP of Customer Service at Eversource has a 96% employee engagement rating by sharing a short weekly voicemail including a spotlight on two different team members. She has 1,500 members on her team. Jan notes also that people support what they help create. [53:27] Zoe’s challenge to listeners: Challenge the frame of consumerism. Thinking of ourselves as consumers has caused the climate crisis. Think about using your influence in the grand scheme and not just for your benefit. Be a role model. Zoe is donating half the profits from her book to 350.org. [56:00] Closing quote: “Think twice before you speak because your words and influence will plant the seed of either success or failure in the mind of another.” — Napoleon Hill.   Quotable Quotes “Almost all of us, … have mixed feelings about influence. … If I ask people …  what are three adjectives that come to mind when you think of influence tactics, [it's] yucky, greedy, manipulative. … When I ask … ‘Would you like to be more influential?”, all of them say, yes.” “Employees have been more productive at home than they have been at work, … but it hasn’t changed the fact that employers want employees to come back.” “Employers that offer more flexibility are going to do much better in the long run, because they’ll be able to recruit the best talent.” “As most academics do, we collaborate with people that we never see and that’s partly because we’re introverted and so we’re kind of happy to be in our little cave. But there’s no problem with collaborating with people that you don’t see.” “If you want to onboard new people and help them make friends; to have informal conversations and collaborations, OK, that’s great. We just don’t need to all be at the office every single day, or even every single week, right?” “Plenty of surveys have shown that leaders are actually out of touch about the real culture of their company. … the actual reality is kind of a crappy culture. It’s horrible to bring people back to the office to experience the crappy culture.” “Bringing people back to the office or allowing people to work remotely has a differential impact on women and people of color and various groups. So there’s more equality when we have more flexibility. That’s another reason I’m generally in favor of giving people flexibility.” “Every freedom, every privilege, should be so carefully and thoughtfully doled out with the expectation that what you’re giving an employee is going to be in perpetuity, or there’s going to be a rebellion.” “When she’s asking this {Magic Question], she’s respectfully acknowledging ‘Listen, you know all kinds of things that I don’t know,” which is always the case with the people we’re trying to influence. They know all kinds of things about their life that we don’t.” “The most addictive piece [of social media] … is called ‘variable intermittent rewards.’” “We also often don’t really realize what our expectations are until they get violated.” “Just internalize the idea that good work comes from good relationships.” “There is a ‘liking’ gap of 12%, where people like you 12% more than you think that they do. And this very much includes people who you have some bit of conflict or strife with.” “The majority … have this idea of negotiations that … comes from the movies. … We don’t directly observe many negotiations and we’re just not realizing that in our lives, most of the time when we’re negotiating, it goes pretty well. … Negotiation is not as bad as we think."   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Donato J. Tramuto is an American healthcare executive, global health activist, author and former CEO of Tivity Health. Donato’s first book was released in 2016, “Life’s Bulldozer Moments: How Adversity Can Lead to Success in Life and Business.” His latest book, “The Double Bottom Line,” is an Amazon Best Seller. Donato is a recipient of the prestigious RFK Ripple of Hope and the RFK Embracing His Legacy Award, for his endless dedication to improving the lives of others. In this episode, Donato discusses the nuances of hardship, developing compassion, being yourself, understanding your associates, and using tenderness to establish trust before relying on tenacity.        Key Takeaways [2:20] Donato lost most of his hearing at age eight, for ten years, and had a severe speech impediment until he was 17. The loss of his hearing created in him an enormous sense of compassion for people. [4:14] For his latest book, The Double Bottom Line, Donato, and his team interviewed 41 world leaders and surveyed 1,500 employees across the country. Their research revealed that compassionate leaders need to do more than understand others’ pain. They need empathy in action to impact others.[6:24] The Double Bottom Line is not just a business book. Donato shares a life experience. In the book, he tells the reader, “Listen to understand, don’t listen to react.” Donato suggests that if we practice compassionate leadership in our daily lives, we’ll take it into our business lives. [8:04] Jan recalls recent guest Michael Bungay Stanier speaking about being compassionate, generous, and kind every day. Jan stresses the difference between being compassionate and being nice. Donato says, “If you want to be liked in a company, you’re probably better to go out and get 100 golden retrievers! Compassionate leadership is not just about being nice.” [9:38] Donato advocates three Ts: approach your organization with Tenderness first, to get the Trust. Then you can use Tenacity. When making tough decisions, don’t start with tenacity. You gain trust by taking the time to understand each person in your organization. [10:42] As the CEO of Healthways (Tivity), Donato avoided the CEO elevator to ride the regular elevator. He shares an event that unfolded from him asking an employee in the elevator how his day was going. Donato would not have known the employee needed help had he not asked the question. Ask questions to get answers beyond, “I’m OK.” [11:52] Form deep relationships with your associates. Generation Z and Millennials will form 60‒65% of the workforce and they require compassionate leadership or they will leave. People are reflecting on their lives in ways we have never seen in our lifetime. [13:07] In Donato’s last year as CEO of Tivity Health, he took a hard line with an executive in front of nine other executives just before a flight. He felt miserable about it. When his plane landed, he got off and called the executive to apologize to her. Because of that apology, their relationship blossomed. With compassionate leadership, you feel better, you don’t take problems home, and you gain credibility! [15:42] Jim quotes Dale Carnegie, who said, “Be interested, not interesting.” [16:36] Donato is thrilled to announce that the Boston University School of Public Health is going to convert The Double Bottom Line: How Compassionate Leaders Captivate Hearts and Deliver Results, into a curriculum to teach compassion. Many of the leaders Donato interviewed were not born with compassion. They learned it through someone in their family or a teacher. The book is a resource. [17:26] There is an opportunity to train our current and future leaders on how to lead from the heart. Donato’s book has assignments at the end of each chapter to help individuals understand the key nuggets of using compassion. Donato’s commitment for the next 20 years is to expand this movement beyond the book and to help leaders see the key ingredients to being compassionate. [20:22] Millennials and Generation Z are demanding a totally different approach to the work environment. Leaders will have to step up and embrace that change or they will be losing significant talent; they won’t be as competitive or as effective. The success of The Double Bottom Line is a validation of compassionate leadership. Institutions are asking Donato for training. The time is right. [22:51] Donato proposes a Chief Compassionate Leader Officer for the C-Suite. Boards have got to be willing to ask these questions about culture and trust, to validate that the organization is moving in this direction, as opposed to always looking at a spreadsheet. [25:36] What is the right amount of empathy, vs. making hard decisions? Empathy overload means getting too deep into the situation, clouding your ability to make hard decisions. [27:06] When you ask to understand and have gotten to the issue, then you need to come to an agreement and consensus with “and,” not “but.” “I understand your issues, and how do we work together to make sure that your needs are met and the needs of the organization are met?” When Donato has taken that approach, they always got to an end result that worked for both parties. [30:24] Establishing trust comes before results. Donato asks permission to help. Once he had a board member, who was not behaving well, refuse to receive some constructive insight. She said, “No. You’re not my coach.” Trust was not established. The board member did not have a favorable outcome; she was later asked to leave the board. Ask for permission to provide constructive insight and most will agree. [32:40] When is it appropriate to address spirituality in the workplace? Donato believes our connection to a spiritual force influences how we behave. If you are a spiritual person, it’s not something to be embarrassed by. The world is increasingly secular. People who do not focus on spirituality may otherwise have positive values that guide their behavior for good. Be who you are. [34:40] Until 2014, when he received the RFK recognitions, Donato had not shared with anyone that he was gay and had a partner. In front of 2,000 people, 500 of whom were his employees, he thanked his loving partner of 23 years. The audience stood to applaud. The more you are who you are, the more you develop an understanding in the workforce that you’re like the other person in many ways. [37:07] Do people look favorably upon expressions of faith? If you emphasize too much one facet of who you are, then you make it an issue. Donato shares many facets of himself in case someone has one of those facets in common with him. [41:20] Start to look at what you and your associates have in common. You will begin to realize that there is very little that is different about you. Take the time to understand the other person. [43:20] Age discrimination is real. The average CEO is 59 years old. They hire their executive team from the same age group. Until we are willing to diversify the executive team, we will not integrate the values of the different generations to build an incredible team. Donato has just hired a terrific 23-year-old manager and he has learned a lot from her. Ten years ago, he would not have hired one of her age. [46:55] The organization’s values should not be decided only by the executive team. Donato tells of changing a company’s 10 hard-to-remember values established by executive leadership into five carefully organized and prioritized values developed with the participation of the associates. [47:34] Don’t choose when to be compassionate. Show compassion to everyone. Be compassionate all the time, just as a pilot flies a plane in a safe manner all the time. [48:35] Donato’s challenge to listeners: There are many issues affecting us today. Start every single day by asking a friend or family member, “Tell me what you’re experiencing today.” After you’ve listened and you’ve heard them, do something! Kindness and compassion are the new currency of the century. [50:40] Closing quote: “Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.” — Robert F. Kennedy.   Quotable Quotes “The fluency you’re hearing today was not there when I was 17. … I share that with you because I think that part of leadership is being … comfortable with your story. Too many people … don’t really understand the steps that led to the successful position you might have.” “You rent your title; you own your dignity.” “If you want to be a compassionate leader, you must have empathy in action to have impact.” “Listen to understand. Understand what the other person might be going through.” “Everyone that you meet most likely is having a more difficult time than you.” “You want deep relationships with your associates. And by the way, we are now faced with five generations in the workforce. Generation Z and the Millennials will soon dominate — 60‒65% of the workforce. If you’re not changing as a leader, guess what, you’re going to be losing out.” “Part of compassionate leadership is doing some self-reflection. You’re not always going to be right and when you are wrong and you admit to it you will gain an enormous amount of credibility.” “My favorite philosopher Yogi Berra once said, ‘You don’t want to make the wrong mistake.’” “With five generations now in the workforce, and Millennials and the Gen Z-ers demanding a totally different approach to the work environment, I think that we’re going to have to step up and begin to embrace that change or we’re going to be losing some significant talent.” “A significant portion of [the Great Resignation] is related to feeling good, and passionate, and putting a soul in your company. … If the leaders of today cannot embrace that, they’re going to be gone.” “We have to be willing to understand that it’s not one facet that attracts people to you, it’s the entire person who you are, and the more willing you are to share those multiple facets, you begin to develop relationships in different venues.” “You have got to have the [company] values developed by everyone in the organization, otherwise, they are not going to stick. And that’s what we did. We brought the 10 values down to five. And … we did prioritize them.” “You show compassion to everyone and you’re compassionate all the time! You don’t pick and choose when you’re compassionate. It's like asking the pilot ‘When do you fly the plane in a safe manner?’ You always fly the plane in a safe manner!”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Michael Bungay Stanier has written books that have sold about a million copies all told, including The Coaching Habit. He founded a training and development company, Box of Crayons, that has taught coaching skills to hundreds of thousands of people around the world. Listen in to see why Michael has been named the #1 Thought Leader in Coaching; and why his work has resonated with thousands…     Key Takeaways [2:00] Jan and Jim met Michael Bungay Stanier through Bobby Herrera, the author of The Gift of Struggle. Michael is the author of the most successful book on coaching of this century, The Coaching Habit. Michael’s latest book is How to Begin. [3:06] Little-known facts about Michael: he was banned from his high school graduation for a balloon prank, he was sued by one of his law school professors for defamation, and his first professional writing was The Male Delivery, a romance short story.[6:07] Michael recently wrote on LinkedIn about his mother’s 50-year-old garden. It has a series of microclimates: a vegetable garden, a fern garden, a wisteria garden, and a Wollemi pine. Each area is looked after differently. He compares caring for a garden to caring for the microcultures in an organization’s culture. [6:18] As a leader you see that things need to change. You’re constantly looking to evolve and grow your organization or strategy. The way you think about engaging all the other people is how change happens in an organization. [8:36] In Australia, some trees need to be burned before they will germinate. Sometimes you need to burn some stuff down to allow the culture to germinate, refresh, and regrow. [10:01] Jan quotes a military mantra, “Selection’s an ongoing process. Just because you got to come here and be in this organization doesn’t mean you get to stay.” Michael notes that our natural wiring is to add. One of the most powerful things to do to drive change is to remove. Michael tells of a study involving adding or removing Lego blocks to make the desired shape. Most people added blocks. [11:05] Most people, when thinking of change in an organization, ask what they need to add. Instead, they would get better changes by asking what 20% of what is happening, what practices, structures, systems, culture,  or people, they need to remove! Michael learned of the study by reading Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less, by Leidy Klotz. [12:15] We are also wired to give advice, even when it’s better to ask a question. Michael counsels leaders to stay curious a little bit longer and move to action and advice-giving a little bit more slowly. Michael explains where we go wrong with giving advice. [14:29] One resistance to having coaching be part of your culture is asking who has time for it. Michael says if you can’t coach somebody in 10 minutes or less, you do not have time to coach them. Being curious does not take a vast amount of time. Michael defines coaching as being curious just a little bit longer. Being curious allows you to figure out what the real challenge is. [15:28] In most organizations, people are working very hard to solve not the real challenge, but the first challenge. Because we get seduced into thinking that the first challenge is the thing we need to solve. If you build a reputation as the person who always seems to figure out what the real challenge is, you build a reputation as a strategic player. [16:00] Strategy is knowing what the real thing is and being bold enough to go and try to fix that. Organizations are filled with people who are good at coming up with fast, not very good ideas. If you’re just one of them, you’re not as valuable to your organization. If you’re always the person who asks, “What’s the real challenge we’re trying to solve here?” you become invaluable. Get the diagnosis right. [16:33] Michael just had a free webinar that asked “What’s the one question that unlocks everything?” The question is, “If I’m going to say ‘yes’ to this, what must I say ‘no’ to?” He quotes Michael Porter, who said, “Strategy is choice. It’s having the courage to make the choice.” Most of us are afraid of making the choice. [17:21] There are three levels of things you have to say “no” to 1.) Tasks. What are the tasks I need to stop doing? 2.) People. To whom do I need to say no? Whom do I need to disappoint? 3.) The old version of who you are, so you can say yes to the new version of who you are. [19:38] The book, How to Begin, asks if you understand the prizes and punishments of staying committed to the status quo. People often don’t understand how much they get from the way things are right now, even though they’re overwhelmed. You need to know what you value and hold dear. There is a tension between the work that has impact and work that has meaning. [21:28] You have to ask what has to be done in this organization for this thing to be a success. What is the work you do that unlocks the best of who you are and has the maximal impact within your organization? [23:15] What does it mean to set a worthy goal? How do you set the goals that matter to you? How do you set a goal that claims ambition for yourself and the world? Michael suggests there are three key elements 1.) Is it thrilling? Does it light you up? 2.) Is it important? 3.) Have you picked a worthy goal that is daunting to you? Will it take you to the edge of your sense of self? [25:14] If you have a goal that is thrilling, important, but not daunting, you have plateaued; you are no longer learning. Michael is now an old dog but he still wants to learn new tricks! Neuroplasticity is how you keep your brain alive and push yourself to the edge. [26:44] Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-bound (SMART) goals are goals of things for management to track. Leadership goals are harder to measure and track. [30:12] When Michael’s father was dying, Michael shared with his father a book chapter he had just written about him, referring to Rilke’s poem “The Man Watching,” about Jacob wrestling with the angel. Michael saw his father as Jacob, a very good man wrestling something greater than himself and becoming the best of who he was. [33:37] Michael is writing a book and he is finding a lot of resistance in the writing. He feels he is losing a wrestle with an angel and feels the angel’s thumbs pushing him down. He asks himself what is his worthy goal. Right now, it’s to be with his mother in Australia, to help her with her grief and mourning, and to let go of his need to write his book or anything else. [36:05] Humility and confidence go hand-in-hand, as Michael explains. [37:48] Coaches must consider for whose sake they are talking. Is it helping the client or the coach? Is it for the coach to figure something out or is it for the client to figure something out? Is the coach’s talking the best way to serve the client or is it giving the coach status, authority, gravitas, and added value? [39:09] When should coaches talk? Michael says the more he’s been around, the more he says the best thing to do is allow the person to figure their stuff out so that they’re creating new neural pathways and gaining competence, confidence, self-sufficiency, and autonomy. That’s the better way to coach. [40:00] Are you asking questions in service of the client or in service of the problem? Michael says to test it out. Ask the person you are talking to, “Does this feel helpful? What feels useful here in all of this, if anything?” The client will know the answers to those questions better than you will. Figure it out between the two of you. Coaching is a relationship. Stop trying to figure it out all in your head. [42:41] Michael’s closing thoughts: “If you can stay curious and you can stay kind and you can be generous, that just takes you a long way down the path of being a good human being. Curiosity, kindness, and generosity are a really powerful triumvirate.” [48:19] Closing quote: “Coaching’s not a job, it’s a privilege.” — Lee Corso.   Quotable Quotes “Any dominant culture actually has subcultures and microclimates. And you’re not just trying to build a culture, you’re [asking], ‘How do I build these microclimates that are all contributors, culture-adds, to the overall culture of my organization?’” “If you’re a leader, one of the mantras you have is ‘Stuff needs to change around here.’ You’re constantly looking to evolve and grow your organization or your strategy in some way. … The way you think about engaging all the other people is how change happens in an organization.” “I’m trying to get people in organizations … to stay curious a little bit longer and rush to action and advice-giving a little bit more slowly because most of us are advice-giving maniacs.” “There is a place for advice-giving. There is absolutely a place for advice-giving! It’s an act of civilization to trade information. What kills us is when we have leaping to advice as our default response.” “When you work in an organization, you’ve got a tension always between work that has impact and the work that has meaning. If you can be really clear on the stuff that matters to you, … then you also have to ask, ‘What needs to be done in this organization for this to be a success?’” “If you’re not working on the right thing, it doesn’t matter if your goal is specific, measurable, attainable, timely, or whatever else. It’s like you’re not working on the thing that’s going to have the most impact and bring out the best of who you are.” “With a worthy goal, you can do work on one or two worthy goals, not more than that.” “I’m trying to write a book at the moment, and I wrote my words today, but, man, I am finding resistance to this book; the dark force in this book is stronger than usual! … I know how to write a book, but this book, I went, ‘What?! This is really hard!’” “I want people to say, ‘Look, I know where I’m good, and I also know where I’m not good and I don’t need to be grandiose about either of those things. That’s what I’m working with. That’s the reality that I’m playing with.’ That, to me, has that kind of confidence and humility.” “The longer I’ve been around, the more I see that my answers aren’t as good as I think they are. And the more I’ve been around, the more I say the best thing to do is allow that person to figure their stuff out so that they’re creating new neural pathways.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

David Smith is a wicked problem-solver, collaborative business leader, technologist, and innovative futurist. He has held executive roles in R&D, government, commercial, and academic organizations. David has been named one of the top seven global futurists in the Millennium issue of Business Week. In this conversation, David shares several concepts to help leaders keep up with the present and prepare for the future. He describes wicked problems, and how to bring a team together with the tools to solve them. He is one of two futurists who have been accurate for the first 22 years of the century and is still on track.       Key Takeaways [2:18] David and Jim first met in Austin and found they had a mutual friend in Steve Justice.[3:46] In David’s youth, as a long-haired roadie, he ran audio for the Beach Boys, the Carpenters, and others. David shares a story from that era. [6:18] David solves wicked problems, which are complex problems that have no known solution path. He once had a team of about 200 people over a year make a 45-year wicked problem roadmap for high-energy-density storage for the military. We can store energy now, but not yet at the density that we need. [7:53] Sematech was formed to regain the semiconductor industry back in the United States. They did it. Dave was one of the co-leaders of the first industry roadmap done in the United States. They worked with semiconductor manufacturers, suppliers, academia, and the government to create the roadmap. The commercial sector, academic sector, and government sector acted as a technopolis to enact change. [9:16] Solving wicked problems involves pulling the various stakeholders of commerce, academics, and the government to work together. [10:31] David explains the process of seeing fifty years into the future. He was one of seven futurists who predicted that this century would be defined by bio. All technology is becoming biological. At 22 years in, he’s been pretty accurate. Only one of the other futurists is accurate for today. All the other five have fallen off the table. David explains how he used a framework. [11:20] A leading futurist has changed his future every 14 to 20 months. That’s not forecasting, it’s predicting and then changing his prediction. David uses a method that includes six views of the future: as an extrapolator, a pattern analyst, a goal-setter, a counterpuncher, an intuiter, or an artist. Different techniques are used for each of the views. [12:27] Use people who can work in different views to optimize out errors. David shares a story of a satellite phone company that went to market using only an extrapolation view to forecast sales. In 12 months, they asked David to work with them and get them on track, because his multiple-view forecast of their numbers had been right. [15:32] How can global social issues be solved? David explains that his framework can be applied across the U.S. and even as far as Malaysia. People understand the value of different views. He tells why the front windshield of a car is larger than the rear window; where we’ve been is important but where we’re going is more important. You need to know where you’ve been to be optimized for the future. [18:36] When David interviews people, he asks a standard set of questions and also roleplays. One roleplay involves the interviewee being asked to defend his actions against “one of the world’s leading experts” who disagrees with what the interviewee is doing. That shows David the candidate’s potential for dealing with human dynamics. It reveals competencies and capabilities. [21:46] David suggests something for leaders: They and everyone in their company need to know that we are in a time of lifelong learning and the way we learn is dramatically changing. David is constantly learning and constantly looking at how to learn. One of the six views of the future is counterpuncher. A counterpuncher does a great job of current awareness.  A counterpuncher works scenarios. [23:28] David looks for weak signals. There’s a lag between inventing something at a university and getting it to the marketplace. David uses tools that let him see what research universities are doing. That gives him the advantage of seeing weak, early signals and spending more time researching. He networks with a lot of people in different industries and he’s always learning. He connects the dots. [25:12] Leaders sometimes forget that other industries are having to solve many of the same types of problems. Dave suggests looking at horizontal convergence. Often you can connect the solutions and the data well between industries. Follow David on Twitter. He posts several times a day of early indicators of industries, trends, and research. [26:03] It’s very important to understand that the world is not static. Ask people to help you learn to do new things and prepare for the future. David tells people around the world that he’s an East Texas farm boy. He finds it a great way to get people comfortable talking with him. [27:06] Before going to a research university, David participated in a pilot education program with 21 students at a college outside of Dallas. It was a one-year inquiry program of learning from original source material without textbooks. It forced them to synthesize. Learning to synthesize, plus having great mentors, gave David the greatest advantage in his career. [29:24] We live with “systems of systems.” Your one mobile device has voice communication, data, photography, entertainment, GPS, etc. David suggests thinking of mentors as a system. One mentor for your current role, one mentor for understanding the politics of the company, and one mentor outside your company for understanding entrepreneurship. Make connections and cultivate them as you go. [31:34] Don’t look for a mentor to hold your hand, but one to point to the mountain and let you choose how to climb it to reach the top. Ask for help if you need it, but you need to understand the path yourself. You want a mentor to help stretch your brain, your competencies, and your capabilities. Learn intangibles above technical skills. David would hope you mentor others below you, too. It’s not one-way. [35:28] David’s hiring advice: Hire people who understand the principle of group intelligence. It’s one of the strongest things David looks for in capabilities. If a rockstar candidate does not work well with others, the impact of that candidate will not be sustainable or optimal. [36:23] David’s six views of the future are one of the ways he builds group intelligence. When he hires people, he wants to see if they’re the one who always has to be right or if they play well with others. [36:41] David recommends silent brainstorming to generate ideas. He explains why it brings out better ideas than brainstorming out loud, and how it works, using a customer example. [39:26] Wicked problems are solved using group intelligence, using a technopolis approach, and using the six views approach. The common theme is using the power of people and the power of group intelligence. [40:28] Participation in team sports is an indicator of group intelligence. David looks to see if candidates participate in group hackathons to develop a solution over a weekend with people you don’t work with. David also roleplays to see how the candidates get their information and use group intelligence. [42:28] David agrees with Steve Justice that we need to stand in the future. David says he has to live in the future to survive today. A leader’s job is to help get the roadmap in place for where the company wants to go. A map has multiple possible routes, and it’s not necessarily the leader’s role to pick the route and the detours. It’s to set the vision and help them understand what the future goals are. [43:28] A leader’s role is to help the organization put roadmaps together for technology, services, products, and capabilities. The roadmaps empower the organization to get to its goals. A 100% top-down leadership in today’s global, connected world would be too complicated for one leader. He needs the group intelligence of his teams, suppliers, and other stakeholders to help build the roadmaps. [44:52] David’s closing thoughts: Since the beginning of recorded data, the amount of data has doubled every two years. Because of the quantity of the data, most legacy tech systems will fail. People need to be in the mode of lifelong learning, or they will be left behind. Twenty years ago, we didn’t have web developers or eCommerce. Coming up, robotics and autonomous systems will revolutionize the world. [48:19] Closing quote: “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.” — Albert Einstein.   Quotable Quotes “When we formed Sematech, our market share in the U.S. had fallen to about 30% globally. That’s a danger point for us. Just like today, … you’re hearing about how the U.S. must regain its semiconductor industry again. Well, we did it back then and it needs to be done again.” “[For] wicked problems, … you’ve got to pull these various stakeholders together. And then you have to use approaches to make sure that what you’re doing is accurate. And what has caused many of these to fail is the use of only a couple of different … views to make it happen.” “I have a framework where we look at six different views of the future. You’re an extrapolator, a pattern analyst, a goal-setter, a counter puncher, an intuiter, or an artist. What makes this system unique is that there are different techniques which go under each of those.” “When we try to tackle hard problems, … we use techniques that go across those different views. … When we do the working groups, I not only want people from the technopolis areas but I want people who have the ability to work in each of the different views of the future.” “Where we’ve been is important but where we’re going is more important.” “One of the first things I want the listeners to understand is that we’re in a time of life-long learning. And it’s not just for leadership but everyone within your company needs to understand that we’re in a time of lifelong learning. And the ways we learn are dramatically changing.” “When you [search], you rarely get any feedback from a university in the search results. But universities are doing a lot of the future science. There’s usually a lead-lag relationship between when something’s invented in a university before it gets to the … marketplace.” “I learn when I talk to people. … I ask questions. I put a scenario out there and say ‘Does it work here?’ and try to understand the answer. The ability for me to be able to work across the different industries I do is, I am a dot-connector.” “Very often, we get so caught up in our vertical industry knowledge, we forget the other industries are having to solve many of the same problems. Maybe a different set of customers, but face the same types of problems. So you need to begin to look at … horizontal convergence.” “We’ve got to change or we would still be plowing fields with pieces of rock.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Elliott Bisnow is the Co-Founder of Summit, whose family of organizations includes Powder Mountain, Summit Series, and Summit Junto. He’s also a startup investor in 50 companies like Uber, Coinbase, Warby Parker, and Albert. Elliott describes his passion for building companies and cultures, connecting deeply with people on his teams, and building events and communities. He believes that what is good for business should be what is good for the community and the world.       Key Takeaways [2:20] Elliott Bisnow is focused on building companies with a great culture, and teams he loves, connecting deeply with the people who work at the Summit businesses, designing and building events and experiences, and meeting the people that come. He loves building communities and getting to understand them. He loves creating teams he wants to be part of. Elliott is a people person. [4:31] The least important part of any business is caring about profits and making money. Those things come from a well-run business with a great product. Good entrepreneurs, good CEOs, and good leaders are obsessed and focused on the thing that their company is making or selling. Consider why you are an entrepreneur. What are you bringing to the world? Elliott loves designing products. [6:239] Elliott recalls growing up watching MTV’s Cribs and seeing the Forbes 400 list, which he remembers with negative associations. He remembers the first group of entrepreneurs he met who cared about the product, the customers, and the communities they were serving. He contrasts the old business model of profit-seeking with a new business model focused on the good of the community. [11:09] Are new entrepreneurs better people or do they just talk more about what they do in the community than the CEOs of the ’90s talked about? Growing up, Elliott never heard of CEOs doing good in the community. He realized he could build businesses that combine profits and purpose. He says, “Profit Enough. What’s good for our business should be good for the community and the world.” [12:46] It’s a lot more enjoyable to do business when your team is happy, when your community is happy, and when you feel good about what you’re creating. [13:44] Elliott liked college as a place to start a business because you have your dorm, food, and classes even if the business fails. His first two businesses in college didn’t work. His third idea did work so he quit college and moved back in with his parents. He made every possible mistake as he learned how to run a startup. The key is to take small risks and make small mistakes and learn from them. [16:56] Elliott builds community by creating things that allow people to self-select into them, being very defined about its mission. However, once people have self-selected into an event, you can find yourself with a lot of similar voices and little diversity. [19:21] Elliott has kept a notepad on his phone for over 10 years. Anytime he hears something or reads something interesting, he writes a note down. He might write one note in a week or three in a day. He has thousands of notes he re-reads. He receives wisdom from other people in two ways: the first way is by reading one book a week; the second is by meeting people in the flow of life and listening to them. [21:45] Elliott has an 80% rule about conversations. In 80% of his conversations, he tries to ask questions. He will ask a question rather than answer one. He finds wisdom from ordinary people. Between his conversations and reading books, he’s getting a lot of good ideas. [24:59] When Elliott realized he wanted to be an entrepreneur, he read a lot of very simple books about people’s journeys to becoming entrepreneurs. Then he was done reading about entrepreneurs and wanted to go be an entrepreneur. [25:36] Elliott sees that MBA courses would serve people better after the people had experienced some years in business. Elliott spends a lot of time thinking about the books he is going to read. He identifies the types of books he wants to read. He also reads some books for fun. When he meets people that don’t read, he suggests books that are just for fun, to get them to fall in love with reading. [27:31] You have to be in a good mindset to sit and read a business book. Elliott will skip a few pages ahead if he gets bored. He doesn’t get stuck on pages. Reading is a big part of Elliott’s life. [28:30] Elliott discusses the virtues of knowing when to quit and cites Warren Buffet who only makes small mistakes because he knows when to get out of a deal. He’s never been in a massive mistake. [29:27] Elliott’s view on ideas is that it’s quite difficult to come up with good ideas, so you need to create a culture where the most ideas possible can come forward, no matter what they are. That’s a hard environment to maintain when people naturally shoot down ideas or want to take credit for them. Elliott says there’s no limit to what you can achieve if you give other people credit. [32:03] Elliott describes what it means to be a “favor-economy millionaire.” Build up a network of people with whom you trade for services. Having relationships where you and your network can help each other grow is extremely important. [35:05] Being an entrepreneur or a leader is hard. Making money is hard. Saving money is hard. Bartering makes it easier to do business. Relationships are like muscles and the more that you work with them, the more you nurture the relationships. Give to people and it will come back many times over. [36:32] Elliott’s takeaway from his book, Make No Small Plans: Between the life people are living and the life they want to live, there’s a lot of white space. Make No Small Plans, is in the context of the life that you want to live. Step out of anything that’s held you back. Make plans to get to where you want to be. [40:06] Closing quote: “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.” — F. Scott Fitzgerald.   Quotable Quotes “When you’re an entrepreneur, you get to create your own culture and your own team.” “The least important part of any business is caring about profits and making money. Those things come from a well-run business with a great product. … Good entrepreneurs, good CEOs, and good leaders are obsessed and focused on the thing that their company is making or selling.” “At the crux of entrepreneurship is, ‘What is the thing that you’re bringing to the world? Why are you an entrepreneur?’” “Just from a personal, selfish standpoint, it’s a lot more enjoyable way to do business when your team is happy, when your community is happy, and when you actually feel really good about what you’re creating.” “My main takeaway is that, as long as your mistakes are small, there’s not very far to fall. … In the early days, the key is taking lots of small risks.” “There’s a lot of emphasis placed on gaining tips and wisdom from super-famous people but I find that there’s just as much wisdom to be had from every person in the world.” “The most important thing about reading is falling in love with reading. And so most people who don’t read, I give them a few books that are just fun.” “You have to be in a good mindset to be able to sit and read a business book. And then I've developed a couple of tricks when it comes to reading, like skipping forward and if things are boring, don’t let it hold you back; don’t get stuck on pages.” “There are certain things where quitting is a virtue and it’s a good skill to have.” “Between the life people want to live, and the life that they’re living, there’s a lot of white space. When I think about Make No Small Plans, it’s in the context of the life that you want to live.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: