The Leadership Podcast

Charlotte Allen is the Founder and CEO of Rebel Success for Leaders. In today's turbulent environment that demands new levels of collaboration, Charlotte works to create a world where change is fun and innovations are successful. She has over 20 years of leadership experience and is a best-selling author. Her latest book is "Rebel Success for Leaders: Lead, Grow, and Sell Fearlessly." Charlotte brings clarity to topics including change, project failure, competing priorities, customer-centricity, and what being a rebel brings to leadership. Listen in for insights about STEM experts, influence, collaboration, and success. https://bit.ly/TLP-352 Key Takeaways [1:49] Charlotte tore her ACL in a ski accident a year ago in 2022. After a lot of physical therapy, she got back on the slopes a year later, to the day. [3:01] Charlotte explains why 70% of business change and innovation projects fail. People tend to have an aversion to change of any kind. We power through it, hoping it'll be over soon, without focusing on the vision of what we want it to be and how to get there. [4:39] Change and innovation each bring something new into the world but innovation has a positive aura around it. It's the warm, fuzzy bunny version of change. But the number of innovation projects that get to market is not that different from the number of successful change projects. [6:11] Failure is an important thing to describe. When we launch an initiative within a corporation, we often have organizational fallout. Parts of the organization did not get the communication. Parts are not happy. Some employees are asked to leave as a result of the change initiative. The failed initiative may get repeated. KPIs for initiatives need to be set up in a way we can measure them. [8:46] If the leadership is not clear on where the team is going, there will be a challenge to success. If there is no clarity within the team about how to operate, communicate, and work together, there's going to be a problem with success. We are extremely driven by tools, metrics, and the latest model, without looking at how people are unable to deliver their best work within the boundaries leaders put them in. [10:10] Competing priorities, the squirrel syndrome, and siloed departments lead to failed projects. [11:21] Charlotte discusses the problems that complexity brings. Complexity is not a friend of successful change. [12:53] STEM people in an organization are not getting the same amount of training and leadership development as the sales team, but they are the experts expected to lead change initiatives. They need to learn two languages, the language of deep experts and the language of change, leadership, and development. But not everybody wants to be in every chair on an org chart. [17:45] There is a large predisposition in STEM workers to get into their work, which they are very good at. They come to a time in their career when they wish they had had more exposure to business elements. Folks that can do the translation between deep expertise and business are unique. We need to be searching for them, training them, and putting them into positions where they can lead. [19:58] Publicly-traded companies have to report out; metrics, KPIs, and spreadsheets are a required part of business. [20:26] In 2023, Charlotte believes leaders will spend more time with, invest in, and develop their people. These efforts can result in fewer people leaving and have positive effects on efficiency and employee satisfaction and engagement. Leaders are seeing that, partly because of changes during the pandemic. There is a large social movement for building community. You don't build community with spreadsheets. [23:01] Comfort is the enemy of progress. People stay in a toxic environment because it's a known job, and change is more frightening. There are so many other options out there. You, as a person, have gifts beyond what you are currently delivering. If you are in a toxic environment, there is no way that you can perform at your best. [24:53] About being a rebel: if not doing something will not get you fired, then consider it. If not doing something, or doing something, is going to get you fired, think hard about that particular action. Charlotte chose the book title Rebel Success For Leaders for a reason. She has always been able to do two important things: drive a path out of complexity and translate among dissimilar groups, such as silos. [25:47] Charlotte learned that you need to be unique, having the thing that only you can deliver to your business or your professional life. That is your rebel. You need to connect that with market success, timeline success, or the solution you need to deliver to the bottom line. In business, we spend most of the time on the success part, little time on the rebel part, and almost no time on connecting the two parts. [27:38] Success comes from a framework more than a recipe. A recipe is a precise pattern. A framework includes the key parts of a structure that allows you to change and operate within with enough of a scaffolding that you're not going to freefall. The Forbes HR Council published an article in 2022 that said we are at a global deficit of leaders in every area who are good at change leadership. [29:00] Forbes identified five abilities leaders need to excel at — adaptability, agility, innovation, collaboration, and customer-centricity. Think of these five skills as the scaffolding. How do you have enough mobility within that to move forward and be good at change regardless of the situation? [30:42] Charlotte discusses customer-centricity in the area of STEM. She tells STEM technical experts that every person they interact with is their customer. "You are trying to influence them with your expertise and you are trying to change their behavior because of the advice and expertise you are giving them. So they are your customer. I am your customer because I am your boss, your leader, your manager." [31:55] That was effective because deep experts tend to speak a lot of "deep expert." They are used to being the ones that everyone turns to for the answer. They give details. What they rarely do is build a relationship, ask what your problems are, or try to understand your position. When you get an expert to think in a customer-centric way, it tweaks their brain just enough to think in terms of the relationship. [32:54] This gets them listening, looking for common ground, and communicating. They will deliver their expertise in a customer-centric framework. Customer-centricity is the human connection. [35:59] Collaboration is when two people decide to work together for a common goal to achieve a certain output. That is another word that is tossed around by organizations all the time. Not all group activity is collaboration. You must be working for a common goal and a certain output. [37:59] The curiosity of a technical person, when not guided appropriately in interpersonal interactions, tends to be off-putting and feels like an interrogation. When you put the seed in their brain that this is a customer, it starts to affect that conversation in a more positive way. [39:18] Charlotte's challenge: "My challenge this year to everyone that I connect with is to think about how change can be fun. … I don't always want it when it shows up at my door but I usually am very excited about it from that space of curiosity. And change can be a lot of fun once you have that framework that helps you guide your actions and your stability and that sense of comfort that you need a little bit of." [40:28] Closing quote: Remember, "We will always have STEM with us. Some things will drop out of the public eye and will go away, but there will always be science, engineering, and technology. And there will always, always be mathematics." — Katherine Johnson Quotable Quotes "Failure is an important thing to describe. … When we launch an initiative within a corporation, we often have organizational fallout. There are parts of the organization that did not get the communication; parts that are not happy." "Complexity is not a friend of successful change." "We all have passion for the work that we do. A lot of folks in that STEM space have a really deep passion for the work that they're doing for making a difference, for providing those solutions for their organizations and for the customer base that they support and work for." "Not everybody wants to be in every chair on an org chart. When you find those folks who have the desire and the development opportunities to move spots, then I think there's really no difference between a STEM person and a salesperson or a CEO, at the end of the day." "There are so many other options out there. … You, as a person, have gifts beyond what you are currently delivering. And if you are in [a] toxic environment, there is no way that you can perform at your best." "The customer-centricity, I honestly believe, is that human connection piece that we are all glossing over." "Collaboration is when two people decide to work together for a common goal to achieve a certain output. That is another word that is tossed around organizations all the time." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Charlotte Allen Rebel Success for Leaders Rebel Success for Leaders: Lead, Grow, and Sell Fearlessly, by Charlotte Allen The Innovator's Dilemma: The Revolutionary Book That Will Change the Way You Do Business, by Clayton M. Christensen Mark Twain Neils Bohr Office Space (movie) Forbes HR Council

Sarah Wirth is President of Ecsell Institute, and co-author of the best-selling book, The Coaching Effect. Her life passion is understanding what makes people tick. Sarah has spent the last two decades researching, writing, and teaching about what the best leaders do differently. In this interview, Sarah starts the conversation with her affinity for pop culture and the lessons for leadership she finds in movies. She tells how Ecsell Institute started as training for sales leaders and expanded into helping leaders in other areas. Sarah and her team gather and analyze survey data to help leaders improve the performance of their organizations by improving their coaching. https://bit.ly/TLP-351 Key Takeaways [2:02] Sarah's team members say she is a pop-culture guru. She likes movies, TV, books, and music, and she likes to find leadership lessons in them. She did a series on looking for leadership lessons in movies. [2:28] Past guest Dean DiSibio wrote Reel Lessons in Leadership, where he talks about leadership lessons from movies. [3:12] Sarah picks Moneyball as a movie with leadership lessons. The character Brad Pitt plays is trying to lead his team in a different direction and lead it differently than anyone has ever led a baseball team. Jan likes Blues Brothers but would pick Succession (TV show). Jim would pick Ted Lasso (TV show). [6:08] Jan and Jim once asked past guests, "How do you measure leader effectiveness?" That is the purpose of Ecsell Institute. They go to the people that are being led to measure leader effectiveness. Then they compare the results with measurable goals for that position and what the leaders are doing to reach the goals. [7:25] Ecsell Institute looks at leaders that are achieving their goals versus leaders that are not. Then they look at how those leaders are leading differently, according to their team members. That gives Ecsell Institute an understanding of the behaviors of successful leaders. [8:58] The Ecsell questions are behaviorally-based. For example, "When you have your one-to-one meetings, does your leader have you define action steps coming out of them? How often?" They are trying to find leadership behaviors to give recommendations to help others become better leaders. People can learn behaviors to emulate. [11:57] Part of the evaluation is outcome-variable questions, such as whether you see yourself working here a year from now. How happy are you in your job? How much do you trust your leader? Would you recommend your team as a great team to work with? Sarah tells how transparency in sharing the information behind the decisions made has a huge impact on trust. [13:37] The Coaching Effects Leadership Survey is consistent in terms of what it measures. How it applies to an organization is something Ecsell has a conversation about with the organization, in particular, how specific leadership traits fit into the company culture. [15:06] Communication and transparency from Ecsell are key to getting employees to trust the survey and how it works. There is even a final question that is not reported to the client, "On a scale of one to 10, how honest were you in giving your responses to these questions?" Some respondents will put a five, especially in low-trust environments. [17:39] Sarah recommends the Coaching Effects Survey for choosing which leaders to invest in. The high-rated leaders are the ones who are interested in being great at what they do. They are passionate about being good leaders. They're the ones who want to learn more and improve. Others may have more room for improvement but high-performing leaders have more potential for improvement. [19:42] A lot of times people get promoted into leadership opportunities because they were good individual performers. Sarah talks to the newly promoted leader and to their manager to understand, does this person have leadership capability? It's a different skill set. You might get an underperforming manager while losing a great performer. [20:40] Sarah recommends that managers ask their team members before promoting them, what is it that interests them about being a leader. If they talk about enjoying coaching and mentoring their peers, and helping others achieve success, that shows they are likely to have an aptitude for leadership. If they just want to move up or make more money, that doesn't indicate an aptitude for leadership. [22:35] Ecsell was founded to work with sales leaders. It expanded as clients wanted to apply the concepts to other leaders in their organizations. Sarah explains how sales leadership differs from other corporate areas. Salespeople are the athletes of the corporate world. They have to perform all the time. Their performance is measured differently. They have emotional highs and lows. They need coaching. [23:50] If you have a sales coach that does not manage the salespersons as much on the emotional level as on the task level, you're going to lose out on so many opportunities to help salespeople perform. [24:07] Past guest Dan Pink made the point that salespeople are not motivated by money but by winning. Money is how they keep score. Sarah agrees with this. In an 18-month sales cycle, we have to find different ways to tap into that motivation to perform. A good coach can do that. The monetary goals alone will not drive the behavior. [25:21] Sarah believes it's a disadvantage for a CEO not to have a sales background. However, a good CEO can learn about sales motivation. Sales teams suffer when they are overmanaged and under-coached. [27:22] One of the measurements of the Coaching Effects Survey is how consistent that leader is in their behavior. The best leaders are a lot more consistent with their team members. The consistency extends to one-to-one meetings, giving feedback, talking about the team member's career, and following through on commitments. [29:37] When you are consistent as a leader, it makes the moments when you are inconsistent stand out more. Your team members are going to want to dig into it and understand it. If you are very consistent, then, when there's something off, they might think there's a pretty good. [30:59] Sarah would coach the importance of consistency starting with questions. She would ask a team member who was behaving inconsistently, "What's your understanding of what you are supposed to be doing here?" They may not understand the expectations around their role. [31:31] Once she knows the expectations are aligned, Sarah would say "Let's look at the data. Here's where you're meeting it, here's where you're not. Help me understand the gap. What's holding you back from being able to achieve this?" They may need more training or a better understanding of the expectation. [32:04] Sarah doesn't want to make assumptions about what's causing the inconsistency. She wants to diagnose the issue with the person and come up with the problem and ideally, to come up with solutions together about what they can do differently. They buy into the solution, instead of being told what to do to fix their problem. [33:20] Sarah shares a client experience. A senior leader had thought the managers were doing one-to-ones, feedback, and career discussions, but they weren't. The data showed clearly that despite the best intentions of the managers, they were not getting the coaching done. The disconnect between the leader's perception and the reality in the eyes of the team members was a surprise to the leader. [34:08] So the leader made it a clear expectation. She made their coaching activities and the expectation to do them as part of their year-end bonus structure. If the leaders weren't doing these coaching activities at a certain percentage, they would lose part of that compensation at the end of the year. The managers took it seriously, raised their coaching, and the company had its best two sales years so far. [35:01] The managers bought into it because they saw their teams were achieving more. They were motivated to keep coaching, even if they weren't measured anymore, because they saw that it matters. [35:54] Sarah explains the reports Ecsell Institute produces for clients. For every question on the survey, they provide your result, company benchmarks, and top-performer benchmarks, so you can see how you are doing compared to your peers and the best leaders. [36:56] The data shows if you don't have a strong relationship with your coach, at the core of that coaching dynamic, everything else — accountability, the type of feedback that they give you, how much they push you — all those other things kind of fall on deaf ears. They don't know that you care and that you're doing it in their best interest. [37:30] Sarah shares her thoughts on ChatGPT and artificial intelligence. There are certain things that can be helpful in the coaching process, that we can allow artificial intelligence to do, but at the core of it, the human relationship is so essential to helping somebody perform and grow. Sarah doesn't think there's a way that you replace that. [37:58] There's always going to be such an important role that good leaders play because they're the only people that can establish that human connection. [38:18] Jan just asked ChatGPT "What are the best questions to ask in a 360 for leaders?" In two seconds it responded, "How do I come across to others, in terms of my leadership style?" and "What do you think I need to do to build more trust with my team?" It's going to be a great tool. Jan thinks it will help us get better. Please listen to Episode 348 for an interview with "guest" ChatGPT! [39:37] Jim heard that at least at one time if you were underperforming in an Amazon warehouse, a robot would come up to you and terminate your employment. That robot "definitely had a sign taped to its back!" [40:23] Sarah's closing thoughts: "At Ecsell Institute, we are continuing to study leadership across the board and one of the places that we're starting to study it is in high school and looking specifically at leadership from teachers and coaches and how it impacts kids in the classroom or on the court. … So be watching for more research that we have coming out on that, too." [41:03] Closing quote: Remember, "Each person holds so much power within themselves that needs to be let out. Sometimes they just need a little nudge, a little direction, a little support, a little coaching, and the greatest things can happen." — Pete Carroll, Seattle Seahawks Quotable Quotes "My team members at Ecsell always like to say that I'm a bit of a pop-culture guru. I like my movies, I like my TV, I like my books, I like my music, and I like to find leadership lessons in them. I did a whole series once on how you can look for leadership lessons in … movies." "There's a scene at the end where they said, 'The first one through the wall always gets bloodied.' And I think that's sometimes very true around leaders that are trying to be innovative and do different things. So [Moneyball] is a good movie for leadership lessons." "There are many models of leadership in Pulp Fiction." "The major way that we measure leader effectiveness is by going to the people that are being led. We feel that is the only way. If you want to get feedback and insight into whether or not somebody's a good leader, ask the people that they're supposed to be leading." "Sometimes we just study the outcomes but we don't know necessarily what's the role that that leader plays in achieving those outcomes." "The leaders that are more highly rated in terms of their team members trust them, what behaviors are they exhibiting differently than the leaders who have low trust ratings? … How much information you share behind decisions that are made has a huge impact on trust ratings." "As leaders, we overestimate a lot how consistent we are because we tend to judge ourselves by our intentions and what our plans were. But others judge us by what our behavior actually was." "If you don't have a strong relationship with your coach, at the core of that coaching dynamic, everything else — accountability, the type of feedback that they give you, how much they push you — all those other things fall on deaf ears because they don't know that you care." "There's always going to be such an important role that good leaders play because they're the only people that can establish that human connection." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Sarah Wirth Ecsell Institute The Coaching Effect: What Great Leaders Do to Increase Sales, Enhance Performance, and Sustain Growth, by Bill Eckstrom and Sarah Wirth Dean DiSibio Reel Lessons in Leadership, by Ralph R. DiSibio with Dean A. DiSibio Leadership Lessons from Pulp Fiction Pulp Fiction (movie) Moneyball (movie) The Blues Brothers (movie) Ted Lasso Succession Christian Anschuetz Dan Pink ChatGPT "Episode 348: Our Real Interview with Artificial Intelligence Sensation ChatGPT"

Vivian James Rigney is a Seven Summits climber, and author of the book, "Naked at the Knife-Edge: What Everest Taught Me about Leadership and the Power of Vulnerability." A Dublin native, Vivian shares information about his international travels and how he helps senior executives get past their egos, give up old habits, embrace vulnerability, and better serve their organizations. One tool he uses to teach vulnerability draws on his experience near the summit of Everest, where he learned the necessity of clarity and purpose. Listen in for insights on curiosity, peeling back the layers, and getting to the root of issues, challenges and opportunities. https://bit.ly/TLP-350 Key Takeaways [2:25] Vivian is from Dublin, Ireland. He studied business, then traveled the world. He has lived in seven countries, has visited more than 80 countries, and is now firmly planted in New York City. Every time he has launched himself in a new place has been a journey. He has seven books he could write about restarting in each country. [3:20] Apart from Ireland and the U.S., Vivian has lived the longest in Germany. He learned to speak German and French and he can still speak those languages. He lived in Finland for six winters, and he "can speak to a two-year-old" in Finnish. Vivian believes Mandarin and Finnish are the world's toughest languages. [4:35] To make high-impact goals, first be very clear on the goal. Be congruent with the goal. Understand where your value system comes in. If you're not fully committed to the goal, the words may be right but people won't see it as a clear goal. [5:16] Never underestimate the power of subtraction. A list of too many goals diffuses the goals. If you have too many goals, you'll fail on some. Be honest with yourself about a core list of goals. Say no to less important things. People will understand what the priorities are. [5:59] Acknowledge progress and celebrate success along the way. People need KPIs and progress reports. Success is not easy. In most cases, there has been a lot of toil along the way. There are people's challenges. So step back and learn from the things that could be done better next time. It helps people to be more authentic. It builds a culture of transparency. It changes the culture for the better. [7:31] Past guest Simon Sinek stressed, "It's a journey. It's a journey. It's a journey." You may never get there. Sometimes, once you've got there, it's depressing. [7:59] High-impact goals benefit and serve others as well as yourself. The people executing the goal do better if they internalize the goal. You can make it clear to them how the end customer is helped by the goals. The minimum should be that your team and people feel connected with the goal. You connect as a leader with your team on an individual level. [10:08] On fact and assumption: Vivian recalls Denzel Washington in The Great Debaters. To be effective leaders we have to be current. Our nature is to operate from habits. That allows us to deal with what's happening around us. But we have to be current, which means we have to upgrade what we believe. Are we dealing with information that's relevant for now or a view we held yesterday? [10:50] We may be dealing with strong personalities who sound very compelling and sound good, but blow hot air and are not grounded. We constantly have to be asking what is the fact, and what is the emotion. There is a lot of emotion in the world. Distill down honestly what is important. Get past the ego that drives us. [11:40] Get feedback. Leaders tend to operate in their heads. Do we get perspectives on how others see us and experience us? Their perception is their reality. Use something like a 360-degree survey. Use a sounding board cabinet you can talk to, being vulnerable and open. Being a leader can be a lonely existence. Getting feedback can make you more real and current. [13:58] After getting past your ego, if you want to bring everyone else in a team to a current reality, Vivian says to be wildly curious. If you think something is off, ask about the situation with no judgment but curiosity to get to the facts, layer by layer, saying "Tell me more about that." Get everyone to hear themselves and recalibrate their report if necessary. Drill down until you land at a point of clarity. [17:01] Vivian lays out a path for building a culture of curiosity in your team. After having a conversation about clarity, ask "What did I do differently today?" You may get observations like "You listened, you asked a lot of questions." This creates shared learning, as people reflect on what you did as a leader. Ask "How did it make you feel to share more, or as I was asking more questions?" It's curiosity with purpose. [18:40] Vivian shares some knowledge of the Seven Summits. There is more than one set, with a difference in one of the peaks selected. The people who have done the harder set number in the hundreds. [19:53] With his clients, Vivian uses a metaphor of a backpack filled with rocks. Letting go of the rocks in your backpack is letting go of strategies and habits you used in past roles that are no longer relevant to your senior role. What used to be ballast is now dead weight. Less is more. [22:41] Vivian recently talked a senior leader through the rationale of dialing back his intensity. Asking if it was in the leader's DNA to get up late and lounge around, the leader knew it wasn't. Being less intense did not mean he would get less done or lose the respect of his team. [24:34] There's a basis of fear that has to be overcome. Vivian says it's the fear of changing the status quo and losing control. Leaders feel they need to stay in control to stay on top of things. That comes at the cost of intuition. To make better decisions faster, tap into your intuition. Controlling too much is slow and inefficient. Releasing control frees you up to harness the strength you've built up over the years. [25:25] The purpose of a coach is to get the most out of the person they're working with. In a business context, mindfulness is more about letting go of ego and being more authentic, having more impact through followership. [27:39] Sometimes we need to shed people. We don't choose our family but we do choose the people around us. You want friends with net positive energy in daily life. You don't want to have friends that always take energy from you that you need for other relationships. We deserve to be able to give to and receive from everybody. [30:20] Vivian discusses how to coach somebody to be "more strategic." Is it that they are strategic but things get in the way, or is it that they are more suited to tactics and execution than strategy? The reality is that they may be in a role they don't fit. [33:07] The top challenges facing senior leaders today are loneliness, agility, curiosity, and the data to process and use for faster decisions. The most important thing for leaders today is leading people of different generations, post-great-resignation while being authentic. [36:15] As a leader, you have ownership of how you recharge and must give the people on your team the same space to recharge. Recharging means different things for different people. If you demonstrate that you value recharging, while allowing your team room to choose how they recharge, it will show your support. Expect optimal performance from your team in the hours they work for you. [39:20] People may think that climbing Seven Summits makes you a wild, competitive animal that attacks things and figures them out. Vivian writes a detailed story in the book on the power of vulnerability. Everest was difficult for Vivian. On summit day, their guide seemed ill and was mumbling that he couldn't do it this time. That put Vivian in a dark space with a hugely negative inner dialog. [40:39] Vivian felt a dark cloud overhead. He believed he couldn't get up or down and he was sure he would die there. He felt a voice come from deep within him, repeating "Why are you here?" He realized he was climbing to prove himself. The voice asked why he was proving how strong, good, and successful he is. He closed his eyes to make peace with his expected demise. [41:41] Vivian's sherpa tapped him on the shoulder and said if they stayed they would die. The sherpa demanded Vivian follow him. Everywhere the sherpa put his boot, Vivian put his boot. He thought he was going down, but he suddenly realized the sherpa was ascending. He followed him to the summit where he appreciated the view from the top but the cloud was with him until he got off the mountain. [42:37] The learning for Vivian was that we have to know why we're doing things, not just chasing goals. He appreciates Everest but he regrets not having more clarity in his goal when he climbed it. In many cases, we do things without knowing why. Vivian didn't need to prove anything. He had already achieved much. [43:08] As leaders, we have to learn when to let go. We are enough. Ask, "How do I use what I have?" Vivian shares with clients his vulnerability and what he learned from it. It induces them to share their story and they build rapport from that. Examples like that help us to be real. Life is all about real experiences. Vivian uses that in his coaching. [44:26] Vivian's thoughts about the inner voice he heard on Everest: "I think that voice is always with us. … We do have to listen to ourselves, to let go of the noise, and we have to do that by disarming the ego. … We try to get people wise and honest themselves, 30, 40 years ahead of the regret, and have fulfilling times from that point forward." [46:10] Vivan wrote Naked at the Knife Edge in New York City during the COVID-19 pandemic when he felt a vulnerability similar to the vulnerability he had felt on Mt. Everest in 2010. He said it was time to write the book. He wrote it in a few months, then added leadership pieces and reflections to it. It had taken him 10 years to be ready. [47:33] Closing quote: Remember, "A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." — Jackie Robinson Quotable Quotes "How do you make goals that are going to be meaningful and resonant? The first thing one has to do is be very clear on that goal. Be congruent with the goal. Understand where your value system comes in with this. Why is that? Because you're a leader." "Never underestimate the power of subtraction. … People tend to make shopping lists of goals. … A list that's too long gets in the way. It diffuses the goals." "'Wildly curious' means, if you've done the introspection on your own head, which is step number one, do it with others. … [Go in] without judgment. … Peel back the layer and say, 'Tell me more about that.'" "When they get to senior leadership levels, … they're using a lot of tools that they used in the past to do what they do today. … It's about letting go of strategies from the past and habits from the past, which are no longer relevant. … Less is more." "A decent coach's sole purpose is not to reinvent the wheel; it's to get the most out of that person they're working with." "As a leader, you have to have ownership of how you recharge and the people under you." "In many cases in life, we are doing things without knowing why we're doing it. In my case, I was trying to prove how good I was. How strong I was. But I didn't need to prove; I'd already achieved." "I think that voice is always with us. For me, I had chosen not to listen to it earlier, doing previous things. … We do have to listen to ourselves, we have to let go of the noise, and we have to do that by disarming the ego and really letting go." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Vivian James Rigney Inside Us, LLC Naked at the Knife-Edge: What Everest Taught Me about Leadership and the Power of Vulnerability, by Vivian James Rigney Simon Sinek Denzel Washington The Great Debaters (movie) 360-Degree Survey Seven Summits

Erin Shrimpton is a chartered organizational psychologist and a LinkedIn Learning Instructor. Erin has a passion for shaping culture that is true to the brand it represents and strategy it supports. In this episode, Erin shares what she's learned about the workplace experience, and how culture is created and influenced by the behavior leaders model. Listen in for a dynamic conversation regarding the psychological aspects of how the environment, and connections truly shape culture. https://bit.ly/TLP-349 Key Takeaways [2:25] Erin was recommended to Jan and Jim by Dean Karrel, another LinkedIn Learning instructor. Jan and Erin have an Irish connection. Jan took students to study abroad in Dublin, Belfast, and Galway to compare and contrast the business and cultural environments between the U.S. and Ireland. Erin was born in Ireland and is based there. [3:41] Erin loves the Beatles! Particularly, The White Album. Erin considers that everybody has some sort of connection with the Beatles. [6:05] Erin talks about changing the experience to change the culture. Recent neuroscience research shows that much of the way we behave is shaped by our experiences. Our experience shapes the pathways in our brains, so much more than we knew before. Apply that to what we experience every day in the workplace. [7:21] Who owns the experiences we have at work? The CEO and senior leaders, HR, IT, Facilities, your manager, and your colleagues. Your colleagues are a large part of your experience. You may be powerless to change the direction of the organization, but you can change your experience with your colleagues. If you're a great team leader, you can empower them to change their experience, every day. [9:01] Empowering your team to have great experiences may not change the wider culture but when you work together to change the little things about how you interact with each other, you start to catalyze change, because other teams are looking at you. This changes the culture from the ground up. [9:35] Jan refers to a recent NY Times article on assessing job satisfaction and why employees leave. A big factor is that the values the employees have are not the same as the values of the organization. When that happens, Jan tells clients there are three choices: they can work to change things, they can accept things, or they can seek employment elsewhere. [10:34] Erin's first "port of call" in a similar case is always to examine and see what you can change. There are a lot of things within your control when working in teams. If even your great experiences with colleagues cannot protect you against a toxic culture, Erin encourages people to find another route for employment. That's only after Erin has investigated with them how else they could change things there. [12:41] In the remote world, it is too early to tell how culture is being affected when people don't see each other between meetings. Erin is pleased to see organizations getting together outside of their working context for the connection's sake. [13:22] Erin sees two big issues with remote work: We're losing opportunities to watch other people role-model examples and more importantly, we're losing the opportunity to connect with people in an unstructured, water-cooler-type way. Erin sees the second issue as being damaging to our well-being and mental health. The first issue is detrimental to the organization, the second is a societal issue. [14:37] Research says that when we've got autonomy over our working day, the outcomes for our work and our mental health are much better, but we need to make sure we are connecting in person, as we can, as well. Use intention to create "impromptu" moments. Networking is essential. [17:08] Erin tells how some younger people (after working virtually) react to one of her in-person workshops with everyone in the room together. They find it nice to be in a group and have banter. But most young people are electing to work remotely. Are they finding moments of connection elsewhere and are they satisfied with that? If they are, do we need to rethink office work? [18:29] Erin sees local people going out to lunch with friends, even going for a swim, and then heading back to their home office for the afternoon. They are getting connections in their neighborhoods, which is good societally but presents a challenge to organizations seeking to create cohesiveness among their employees. Realize that it takes an effort to create connections with people. [20:53] Erin tells leaders we are facing two issues at the moment: revolutionizing the way we work and working out how to keep our teams connected. Erin asks them "Can one issue solve the other? Can you ask your team to solve together one thing that's bothering them now?" When they feel real autonomy to do that, they get going with it and start that meaningful connection, whether it is local or remote. [23:11] Erin teaches a LinkedIn Learning class, "Use an Entrepreneurial Mindset to Find Success and Fulfilment at Work." Erin has been intrigued by entrepreneurial thinking since she was a child. When she went into psychology she studied what makes work better for people. Then she assisted in a startup, Innocent Drinks. Everyone there was encouraged to think entrepreneurially. Erin learned how to do it. [24:14] When Erin went into other organizations and coached organizations for culture change, she noticed entrepreneurial people everywhere. Entrepreneurs aren't just people who start businesses; entrepreneurs are people who think in a certain way about making something better. She also noticed that entrepreneurs absolutely have to find a way to motivate themselves that is not financially driven. [24:49] For most entrepreneurs, their "fortune" is a very long way away, so they have to motivate themselves to get up and find work every day that fulfills them that day. That's what Erin saw in the entrepreneurial thinks she found at work in various organizations. They are able to find an intrinsic reward in their day-to-day work. [25:17] Being people who are able to find the intrinsic reward in the daily activities of their work, who are able to tolerate the uncertainty of our working lives, and who look with vision into the future are the three main elements Erin talks about in her LinkedIn Learning course. It is a mindset that can be learned. Most people don't want to start companies but they can find this entrepreneurial mindset helpful. [26:27] To learn a mindset, adopt the behaviors and the habits. As a leader, be a role model of the habits you want others to adopt. Erin asks leaders, "How are you getting people to solve these problems with you?" To change their behavior, people need to feel some responsibility for the outcome. Jan quotes an old Irish mentor of his, Bud Ahern, who said, "People support what they help create." [28:26] Erin shares information about Innocent Drinks, a very innovative brand for its time. Instead of printing "Use By" on the lid, they put "Enjoy By." They didn't think about the rules as they were, but about how they could change things. Erin has taken that with her, ever since. [29:18] Thinking about "how it could be" leads to innovation and creativity. But we are accustomed to operating by rules. We have to have some rules and heuristics because otherwise we would become overwhelmed with the world. Tune in to notice the set of rules by which you operate. Do you need them? How could things be different? Where do you stop breaking the rules, though? [31:01] It is hard as a leader to encourage rule-breaking but not too much. She compares the rules we used to have for our daily work to our rules for this more flexible environment. We have to learn how to be flexible with the rules and use a bit of deep thought about where the line is drawn and whether to break this rule or not. For leaders, it comes back to role modeling and sometimes admitting fallibility. [32:13] A leader may need to explain, "I took this risk. I probably went a step too far and here's why, and here's the learning I had from it." It's a bit of trial and error. You're not always going to get it right as a leader but it's worth that risk. [33:13] We need to be more forgiving as people adjust to what could be our new normal. There is an ongoing level of discomfort we all feel in this transition and we're not articulating it enough. In 2019, we really had a very different life as a global culture. We don't know how the future will play out and that's uncomfortable. Having compassion for this discomfort can go a long way for leaders with their teams. [34:34] Active listening, taking a team member out for coffee, asking people how they are doing, all go so far. Jan cites past guest Margaret Heffernan who said before the pandemic, we were all about efficiency. The pandemic showed us we weren't very adaptable. Today, businesses are still trying to be efficient while adapting to the needs of the people who run the business. We need negotiation skills. [35:31] A psychological contract with your employer is about the expectations you have going into a job and the expectations your employer has for your performance. You have an unwritten psychological contract but over time the contract gets breached because the expectations of the employee and the employer don't match. This can lead to disengagement, or it can be managed by good communication. [36:31] If you joined a new organization in 2019, your employment expectations then are much different than your expectations today. We need to be having more open conversations about how our expectations have changed around our working lives, including what employers are expecting of their people. The team needs to understand what the expectations are and how they've changed. [37:54] Even knowing about it, Erin also falls into the trap of mismatched or misunderstood expectations. She will find herself frustrated and then recognize she has an expectation about something that may not be realistic. The first step is to become aware of your expectations. Then find the language and the forum to have those conversations with your manager or colleagues. [39:24] In the negotiation we are having about the new ways of working you need to get granular about things like managing your boundaries around your working lives. When it is OK to text or email? These details are what make up our day-to-day experiences. Give people permission to disagree or "fight." It's encouraged to avoid the dysfunction of complacency. People need to challenge each other. [40:56] Erin's Closing thoughts: "Take time out to reflect because we are all so overwhelmed and busy … and so many … things … require a deep reflection and tuning in to what's going on for us and … to what's going on for our teams." [42:12] Closing quote: Remember, "Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything." — George Bernard Shaw Quotable Quotes "I always think that everybody has a connection with the Beatles in some way, shape, or form." "The field of neuroscience has progressed so much in the last 20 years when I did my undergrad in psychology. What we know now is so much of the way we behave is shaped by our experience." "If you think about what is the best definition of culture, it's 'How we do things around here.' So. how do we learn about how to do things? We watch, and we experience what everybody else is doing, don't we?" "One of the things that people often get frustrated with about culture is that they feel completely disempowered to do anything about it. … If you're thinking 'There's nothing I can do,' that may be true in some context, … but you can change the experience." "If you work in what you might define as a toxic culture, working with great colleagues helps you to kind of buffer against that. But there certainly comes a point, and … this is really important, … where you have to be brave and say to yourself, … this is not good for me." "As a psychologist, I am all for the flexibility, the autonomy, that we are now enjoying with the new hybrid way of working. … I think it is really great for most of us." "Other research says that when we've got autonomy over our working day, the outcome for our work is so much better and for our mental health, but … we need to make sure we are connecting in person, as and when we can, as well." "Connection doesn't happen just because you put people in an office. It happens when they're working on something meaningful. So that's the thing to focus on." "Entrepreneurs aren't just people who start businesses; entrepreneurs are people who think in a certain way about making something better." "A world that affords us flexibility means that we also have to be flexible in it. We have to learn how to be flexible." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Paul Darley Audrey Darley Welch Dean Karrel Erin Shrimpton ErinShrimpton.com The Beatles (The White Album) Yesterday (movie) Chris Farley Interviews Paul McCartney "Why is assessing job satisfaction so hard?" NY Times Innocent Drinks Management Science Margaret Heffernan The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable, by Patrick Lencioni

ChatGPT is the artificial intelligence talk of the town, and Jan and Jim have experimented with it for a few months and share the questions they asked it, and the responses ChatGPT provided. They discuss how ChatGPT can be a game-changer for leaders to spend more time doing what they do best - develop relationships and exercise judgment. Listen in for how AI can be a new tool in your toolbox, and its potential as a leadership enhancer. https://bit.ly/TLP-348 Key Takeaways [1:38] Jan and Jim give a big shoutout to their friend Greg Hinc of County Cork, Ireland. He wrote that he started listening to The Leadership Podcast at about Episode 150, then he went back and listened to them all. He comments on their social media posts. He's talked a lot about how much he's learned and gained from it, which means a lot to Jan and Jim. There's a little gift coming to Greg. [2:34] If you have listened to every episode like Greg, then Jan and Jim would love to hear from you, as well. [4:07] Jim's friend, Jim Mirochnik of Halock Security Labs, introduced him three months ago to ChatGPT, an artificial intelligence chatbot. After five minutes of interaction, Jim was as excited as when he first learned of the world wide web in 1992. Jim asked ChatGPT a variety of questions and he got back usually well-written answers. [5:33] To test ChatGPT on a task a human probably couldn't do quickly, Jim asked it, "Write a Java computer program that will take the input of two people's names and an adjective describing their relationship and create a poem written in Iambic Pentameter." Within seconds, it wrote a Java program that was pretty close to being exactly what Jim had asked for. [6:17] Jim clarified his question and ChatGPT gave him a better result. Then Jim asked it to write the program in Python and it instantly supplied the Python code on half a sheet. It gave a more concise answer than a human coder might have given and it was good code. [7:01] Jim and Jan share some questions he asked and the answers from ChatGPT from about three months ago. [7:14] Q. Write a 500-word essay on leadership. The answer came in about 35 seconds and it was amazing. Then Jim asked, "How many words is that essay?" It said 532. Jim asked why it went over. It said leadership is a complex topic and hard to explain. [7:54] This morning Jim asked it the same question: Write a 500-word essay on leadership. ChatGPT has gotten a lot busier, with more users. The response today took six minutes. It was very well written again and similar to the first response but it was much more concise at 372 words. ChatGPT is having a deep impact on university students and the way they study. It is a fantastically useful and powerful tool. [8:53] Jan hears people afraid that ChatGPT will take their job. He recently demoed ChatGPT to a CEO. When the CEO asked, Why are there silos developing in my organization? It gave these answers: Lack of communication/collaboration, competition for resources, different goals and priorities, silos created by structure, or resistance to change. That gave Jan and his client five things to explore together. [10:56] If you only had pliers before, now you have a vice grip. What sticks out for Jan is that he has to ask it very good questions and then, exercise his judgment and decide what to look at. [11:27] What Jan did with his CEO client was look at different goals and priorities. They have a retreat planned where each attendee will bring a list of five important priorities and will make sure everyone is clear on roles and responsibilities and where there is overlap. Jan — not ChatGPT — will facilitate the discussion. Jan sees it as an awesome tool. [12:03] Some people get better and quicker responses than others when searching on Google because they know how to ask questions the right way for good search results. That skill is super important with ChatGPT. You get better by practicing and using it. [12:45] There are some things that it can do quickly that might take weeks for a human to do. Jim asked, What are the top five themes articulated in The Leadership Podcast? [13:41] ChatGPT answered, "As an AI language model, I don't have personal opinions but I can provide you with an overview of some of the most commonly discussed themes on The Leadership Podcast, based on the content available on their website and podcast. Here are five possible themes: Leadership …, personal development, team dynamics, innovation and disruption, business and industry insights." [14:27] ChatGPT took about a minute to make that analysis. It had indexed and searched the entire site for The Leadership Podcast, so it knows about it. Jim had asked it the same question two months ago before it was able to search websites. Now it can. Its functionality is increasing at a geometric pace. [15:16] ChatGPT is a fun, powerful tool, and its answers are exceptionally well done. Another question was, Can you measure leadership? It came up with a similar answer to a discussion with guest Sarah Wirth - The Leadership Podcast Episode 351. [16:28] Jan asked ChatGPT When I interview Jim Vaselopulos from Rafti Advisors for my podcast, what should I ask him? ChatGPT responded, "As a business strategist and leaders consultant, Jim is able to provide valuable insights on various topics related to business management leadership. Here are some questions to ask during the interview. …" [16:51] " … How has the COVID-19 pandemic impacted business strategies in leadership and how can organizations adapt to these changes?", "Can you share a memorable experience from your career that taught you an important lesson about leadership?", "What inspired you to become a strategist and leadership consultant?" [17:22] "Can you share a particularly successful project you had with a client and what made it successful?" These are good generic questions. They provide a good starting point. Jim cites Atomic Habits, by James Clear. If you want to run, start by putting your shoes on. Then you generally follow through. ChatGPT is a tool to help you jumpstart a report or analysis. It can help you get moving. [18:53] Jan is working with an organization with five good values that has not articulated its values into observable behaviors. One of the values is accountability. Jan asked ChatGPT, What three observable behaviors would you assign to the value of accountability? ChatGPT's response was, "Honesty and transparency, reliability and follow through, adaptability and continuous improvement." [19:26] Under "continuous improvement," ChatGPT added, "They take feedback constructively, they recognize mistakes or failures can be opportunities for growth and learning, they're willing to adjust their approach …" Jan asked if you, the listeners, know what the values mean in your organization? Don't follow a robot blindly, but ChatGPT gives a great starting point for a discussion on values. [20:25] Jan says, oftentimes, those [company] values are ambiguous, the culture is by default, and the values and standards cannot be upheld because there's no agreement on what they mean. There's no common vocabulary. That's something every organization could do today. Look at your values and agree on behaviors to associate with them. Can we be more clear on what we want our folks to do? [21:12] Three years ago, Jim and Jan were asked to go out to the Air University in Montgomery, Alabama. They gave a speech summarizing The Leadership Podcast and the guests they had interviewed and the overarching theme they could find. One of the themes that still continues since then was curiosity. The most successful leaders had the trait of being curious. ChatGPT didn't come up with that! [21:59] The Leadership Podcast is about curiosity. Learning to use a tool like ChatGPT is about being curious. What are you curious about? [22:28] Jan asked When I interview Jan Rutherford from Self-reliant Leadership for my podcast, what should I ask him? ChatGPT responded "Can you tell us a bit about your background, how you became interested in self-reliant leadership?" and "What are the key traits and characteristics of self-reliant leaders?" It didn't ask a single COVID-19 question, ask about stories or mention entrepreneurs. [23:06] ChatGPT had picked up on those topics on Jim's website, not on Jan's. There were relevant questions for each Jan and Jim from their websites. [23:18] Another question for Jan was "Are there any common misconceptions or misunderstandings about self-reliant leadership that you would like to clear up?" That's a good question. During this episode, Jan and Jim were curious, tested their assumptions, and learned something! [23:40] Curiosity is such an important theme. ChatGPT is a vehicle to supercharge your curiosity and enlighten yourself in ways that you couldn't without reading books that you may not have time to read. [24:27] Simon Sinek was a guest on the show and they asked him, "Where does personal responsibility and a sense of real duty to each other start to play a role, especially now (during the pandemic)?" So Jan asked ChatGPT that question. [24:42] ChatGPT had interesting answers, ending with "To foster a sense of personal responsibility and a duty to each other, it's important to prioritize empathy, compassion, and kindness. We can start by listening to and understanding the needs and concerns of others, being willing to make personal sacrifices for the greater good, and taking action to support our communities in meaningful ways." [25:09] Jan plays Simon's answer: "Trust is a two-way street. Just think of any relationship: friendship, marriage, or anything. Trust is always two ways. In a business context, where there's formal hierarchy, it is the leader's responsibility to create the environment in which trust can exist." [25:41] (Simon continues) "To build a circle of safety and create an environment in which people feel safe to raise their hand and say, 'I made a mistake,' or 'I need help,' or 'I don't understand,' without any fear of humiliation or retribution. Without any fear that they'll be on some shortlist by the end of the year. However, it's everyone's responsibility to step into that circle of safety." [25:59] (Simon continues) "Compare it to a personal relationship. It's very important for at least one person in the relationship to start to create an environment in which the other person feels safe to express themselves or be themselves. But it's still the responsibility of the other person to take that risk to express themselves or be themselves." [26:16] (Simon concludes) "It's the same in business. It's all fine and good for us to create the environment but people have to take the risk and say, 'Hey boss, I need help,' or 'I made a mistake,' and to realize that there's no humiliation or blowback if you do that. In fact, you get his support." [26:36] The ChatGPT is not about to replace Simon Sinek. He's wonderful to listen to, he's articulate. He hit on a lot of the same themes that were in ChatGPT's answer. Jan finds that interesting. We know this AI today is going to be exponentially better. In less than a year, it may use a voice and cadence to come close to Simon Sinek. Leaders and business people now have another tool in their toolbox. [27:39] We're still going to need to build relationships; we're still going to need to be able to exercise judgment. If curiosity is a value in your organization, what does that mean? Are we teaching people to ask better questions and to listen better? Or are we saying go to Toastmasters to learn to be a great speaker and articulate? The emphasis has been on using our mouths instead of our ears! [28:10] To do a school term paper, you come up with an outline and then flesh it out. In practical business, people don't start with an outline. Powerpoint is the closest thing to an outline for presentations. Make one good point instead of five average points. Two good points and seven bad ones ruin a presentation. ChatGPT can help you sharpen your point and get at it. [29:38] What are the keys to having difficult conversations? ChatGPT answered with seven bullet points taking up three-quarters of a page. Jim lists the bullet points: "Prepare, choose, listen actively, be clear and direct, focus on the issue, offer solutions and options, and follow up." The supporting information is spot-on. It doesn't have too many extra words or fluff statements. [30:23] What are the most common mistakes people make when delegating? "Not delegating at all, over-delegating, poor communication, micro-managing, lack of follow-up, not providing sufficient resources, and taking credit." You have to recognize the efforts and achievements of the person you delegated to. [31:27] For as scary as this new technology can be, we need to adopt it, embrace it, and understand that it's going to affect all of us in some way, shape, or form. Whether you realize it or not, your employees are using it! Jim shares a client story about it. [32:14] Jan just had a conversation about trust. He cites past guest Margaret Heffernan: Social capital is what happens between people; that relationship. You want to work with people you like, people you respect, and people you trust. Trust takes time and everybody's busy. [33:28] Jan refers to Lisa McLeod, a sales thought leader, who says "If you can't understand how you're making people's lives better, you can't sell anything." It would be so sad to go to work, with whatever tools you use, and not think at the end, "How am I making people's lives better?" See the interview here: https://selfreliantleadership.com/blog/2021/05/06/lisa-mcleod-on-selling-with-noble-purpose/. [34:10] Jim asked a young salesman what his value proposition was. The salesman listed the product features but Jim wanted to know how the salesman was making his customer's life better. Jim tells a friend's story about the pressure-washing cheerleader who lifted his low spirit with kindness and joy. [36:55] Past guest Barry Schwartz told about cancer-ward janitors who weren't there to clean messes but to provide a better experience for patients. That floor had the best cancer-survival rates because of the janitors who brought them kindness and preserved their dignity. [37:39] Jan recalls how past guest Christophe Morin of SalesBrain uses props. As a prop, Jan holds up an insulated mug his wife got him for Valentine's Day. Jan asks ChatGPT How does a coffee mug that stays warm improve someone's life? "A mug that stays warm can be a convenient addition to a person's daily routine. They can take their time enjoying their drink without having to worry about it getting cold." [38:53] ChatGPT also says that drinking a hot beverage has been linked to various health benefits, such as improving digestion, boosting metabolism, and reducing the risk of certain diseases. "With a mug that stays warm, one can ensure they're consuming their hot beverage at the optimal temperature to reap these benefits." Our business is selling something. Do we understand how it improves someone's life? [39:20] Is ChatGPT a menace? It might be. Is it something that can improve our life? Jan thinks it will be able to speed up things. It will get us to a point where creating an outline or coming up with some ideas, we'll let somebody else do that and we'll focus on the things that only we can do; exercise judgment, cut and paste, modify, edit, or think, and step back. It will help us get better at asking questions. [40:11] What Jan hopes ChatGPT does is allow us to spend more time with each other and improve the relationships we have between people, not on a computer all the time. [40:54] Jim asked ChatGPT to write the Darley ad, and it did! Jim reads the ad. [41:37] Microsoft is incorporating ChatGPT into Bing. [41:51] Jan and Jim would love to hear your feedback on this episode and on ChatGPT. How are you using it? This is a game-changer. Comment on LinkedIn or on Facebook or comment on the episode page. Jan and Jim will respond. [42:28] Closing quote: Remember, "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." — Arthur Schopenhauer Quotable Quotes from ChatGPT "As an AI language model, I don't have personal opinions but I can provide you with an overview of some of the most commonly discussed themes on The Leadership Podcast, based on the content available on their website and podcast. Here are five possible themes: Leadership … , personal development, team dynamics, innovation and disruption, business and industry insights." "As a business strategist and leaders consultant, Jim is able to provide valuable insights on various topics related to business management leadership. Here are some questions to ask during the interview." "To foster a sense of personal responsibility and a duty to each other, it's important to prioritize empathy, compassion, and kindness. We can start by listening to and understanding the needs and concerns of others, being willing to make personal sacrifices for the greater good, and taking action to support our communities in meaningful ways." "[Before a difficult conversation], prepare, choose, listen actively, be clear and direct, focus on the issue, offer solutions and options, and follow up.." "[Mistakes when delegating are] not delegating at all, over-delegating, poor communication, micro-managing, lack of follow-up, not providing sufficient resources, and taking credit." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC ChatGPT Jim Mirochnik Halock Security Labs Skynet Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones, by James Clear Air University, Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, Alabama Sara Wirth Simon Sinek Toastmasters Margaret Heffernan Lisa McLeod Barry Schwartz Christophe Morin SalesBrain Microsoft

Nicole Kalil is the Confidence Sherpa. She's the author of "Validation is for Parking," and a leadership strategist, respected coach, speaker, and host of the "This is Woman's Work" podcast. Nicole sees that women and men approach confidence very differently. She discusses how appearing confident is very different from being confident. Real, authentic confidence produces executive presence, and is a catalyst for effective leadership. Listen in for new insights on confidence and how it affects team success, and professional fulfillment. https://bit.ly/TLP-347 Key Takeaways [1:25] Jan and Jim want to know if you have listened to every episode of The Leadership Podcast. If you have, please drop them a line. They may have something for you! [2:27] Nicole is a partner to her husband, a mom to her nine-year-old daughter, a hotel snob, a wine and cheese enthusiast, and a reluctant Peloton rider. [4:23] Nicole wrote Validation Is For Parking to discuss confidence through a feminine lens. At the time she wrote the book, 92% of business books were written by men. In her finance job, all her mentors were men. Nicole felt an imbalance. She wrote the book with women in mind. Her intention isn't to be exclusionary. She hopes people who identify as any gender will read it and have good takeaways. [6:29] Nicole took the filters off and wrote what she felt and knew, having women in mind, and sharing stories she felt would be most relevant or help people feel less alone. She wrote it almost as a journal and then realized someone was going to read it! It felt important to her, in writing a book about confidence, to put it all out there and be authentic and true to herself. [8:22] In work environments, confidence is when you trust yourself firmly and boldly. When you walk into an environment where you're "the other," you may spend a lot of your energy trying to navigate how to fit into the culture and the environment, and in doing that, you tend to lose some of your authenticity; you tend to lose some of yourself. That impacts your confidence. [9:11] When negotiating for a salary increase or a promotion, women are coming to those conversations with less confidence than their male counterparts because the way they would do it authentically or naturally is different from the way that is being encouraged, supported, trained, or recognized in the culture and environment. Jan cites past guest Jeffrey Pfeffer on the seven rules of power. [10:24] How are we defining power? Nicole defines power as showing up with true and vulnerable emotions, not as inauthentically looking confident or powerful. [12:53] The boss is the keeper of the culture. If your being authentic doesn't fit in the culture, this is the opportunity for the boss to say, "This is just not the right place for you." [13:16] If you're accentuating something about yourself so much that it's repellent to others it may be worth questioning if you are actually showing up authentically at all. You're probably doing that in reaction. Nicole shares an experience from when she was trying to fit in. Looking back, she sees that was not her authentic self. [15:34] There isn't one right, definitive answer to just about anything. We come to every situation, conversation, or event with our beliefs, values, experiences, and interpretations, and we think that those experiences, interpretations, and values are right or true with a capital T. What one person believes is right and true may not be right and true for everybody. [16:31] Nicole is trying to practice being more empathetic, better listening, being more open, and communicating, "This is the way I see it and I'm open that there may be another way to see it," and being curious about that. [16:49] Nicole sees all of those things as a practice in being and becoming a better leader. They make us better relationship-builders, and developers of others, and create safer, healthier, and more productive environments. [18:24] Leadership and allyship are very closely connected. Be curious, listen. When you ask a question, believe what people are telling you is their perception or interpretation, and try to have empathy around that. All of us have the opportunity to create more balance. [18:57] Understand that the masculine approach to success in business is alive and well. There is the opportunity to bring in, recognize, and reward the more feminine side, as well, within yourselves and your organization, and your culture. Be aware and pay attention. [19:26] It helps people to have someone they trust and have a good relationship with. Be a coach to others when they say something that they may have meant in one way, but that might have been interpreted in another way. Most people can be very forgiving if they know you're coming from a good place. Knowing where you're coming from makes all the difference in the world. [22:21] Nicole discusses executive presence. It's external; what we show to the world. We have an impact on how people see us. Nicole distinguishes it from confidence. Confidence is about firm and bold trust in self. Confidence in others is trust in them. Confidence leads to executive presence and that leads to leadership. [24:02] If you bypass confidence and go for executive presence, you can look confident but at some point, if the internal component isn't there, it's going to become painful to you and obvious to others. Don't be focused on how you look to others but on who you are and what you bring to the table; what it is you can, and choose to, trust in yourself. [25:24] Nicole discusses the gender component of confidence vs. competence. Women tend to over-rotate on competence. They believe they need to do it all, have it all, and look the part; get all the designations and check all the boxes. It's very much about how it looks. But you cannot be competent at anything you're doing for the first time. Competence takes time. [26:00] Confidence is a choice we can make any time we want. Confidence is on the road to competence. Competence will then circle back and increase your confidence as you go. But there's always something more to learn and skills to develop before you are fully competent. Instead of "Fake it till you make it," Nicole says, "Choose it until you become it." Choose confidence continually. [26:55] Women, especially, feel they need to be 100% ready before taking big actions. But 100% ready is not available to any of us when it comes to doing something new. We do most meaningful things with a combination of excitement, fear, readiness, and doubt. [27:34] For a lot of women it's letting go of the unachievable expectation that you're going to be 100% anything. Trust that you'll figure it out as you go. Trust that if you don't do well, you'll be OK; you'll learn something to take to the next thing you do. Trust that you've done what got you here, and you can apply your unique talents, strengths, and abilities to this new thing and you will get there. Trust in yourself. [29:03] Nicole saw integrity as strong moral principles or being honest. Her background is in finance, where being honest is important, and doing what's best for your clients. In terms of a strong moral standing, who decides what that is? Do personal things bleed into the definition? Nicole had a struggle with the word, which forced her to look at the definition. [30:08] Nicole loves the second definition of integrity: the state of being whole and undivided. That's what we need to be talking about, is being so true and trusting in ourselves that we show up with all that we are, we own everything that we're not, and we choose to embrace all of it. And that would lead us to bring our full and best selves to the leadership table, to our businesses. [30:52] Nicole sees power and magic in knowing who we are, owning who we are not, choosing to embrace all of it, and showing up as our full and best selves. That's how we should be talking more about integrity. [31:46] We've over-rotated in society and we try to "save" people every time they express that they are not meant for something. We think everybody can be anything they want to be. That's not an available option for any of us. And, unfortunately, we think that we should do and be everything. What we end up doing is watering down our unique abilities and unique talents by trying to be everything. [32:32] Nicole refers to Essentialism, by Greg McKeown (a previous guest). We don't stay in our lane because we don't spend any of our time figuring out what our lane is. In order to do that, we need to know what our lane isn't. There is power in owning what and who you are not meant for; what and who may not be meant for you. Being able to discern that will put you on track for what you are meant for. [33:16] Purpose is not one thing but we all have a purpose. It's confidence-boosting to sift out the things that are not meant for you. [34:42] The biggest "Aha" that Nicole would tell her younger self is how much her failures, missteps, mistakes, fears, and doubts built her confidence and contributed to her success and purpose, more than her achievements, successes, wins, and things that came easily. It doesn't hurt any less when she's in it, but when she's experiencing bad feelings, she tells herself all that's missing is the benefit of hindsight. [35:26] Nicole reminds herself that she doesn't yet know why the negative thing is happening, but she trusts that it is serving a purpose. It's a gift, a lesson, a redirect, or an opportunity. There's some other way to see the thing that's happening that is going to work for her betterment. She trusts that in those moments. She wishes she would have failed more often and risked more, earlier on. [36:40] Letting your children or employees fall is a struggle, but they go through it for their growth. You want to protect. You want them to be happy. Nicole and her husband are clear that they want to protect their daughter as much as they can from things that fall under health and safety that are very difficult to recover from. On other things, it is better to just let it play out and get messy. [37:44] Nicole tells her daughter that she loves her all of the time. It's constant and does not need to be earned. She doesn't need to prove herself to get it. The love is constant even in the messiness, failure, and mistakes. She can figure all the rest of it out. She encourages her daughter to hold onto her own confidence when it gets challenged. [39:08] Nicole's challenge to listeners: "Separate all the advice, advertisements, and things on social media that tell you that the way you gain confidence is by fixing how your confidence looks to others. If it's external, it's probably not confidence-building. Go back to 'Confidence is when you trust yourself.' … Ask yourself, 'Is this going to help me trust myself more?' If the answer is yes then go do it!" [40:25] Closing quote: Remember, "To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment." — Ralph Waldo Emerson Quotable Quotes "So much of what we learn about what it is to be professional, what it is to be successful, what it is to be a leader, or what it is to be confident comes from the masculine lens. I worked in finance and almost exclusively, all of my mentors, trainers, and teachers were men." "When you walk into an environment where you're 'the other,' … a lot of people spend a lot of their energy trying to navigate how to fit into the culture and the environment, and in doing that, we tend to lose some of our authenticity; we tend to lose some of ourselves." "We are often being taught how to look confident. Very rarely taught how to be or become confident." "I have a fundamental belief that leaders are keepers of the culture and if somebody being their authentic self doesn't fit in a culture, then it's probably the opportunity to say, 'You're not bad, we're not bad, this is just not the right place for you.'" "The older I get the more I realize that there isn't one right, definitive answer to just about anything." "We are all coming to every situation, conversation, or event with our own beliefs, values, experiences, and interpretations, and unfortunately, we are thinking that those experiences, interpretations, and values are right or true with a capital T." "[Let] people know 'I'm going into this uncomfortable place. I might say things wrong; I might do things wrong. But my intention is only ever, always to get better. I'm open to feedback. If I make mistakes [please] pull me aside and tell me about it.'" "Confidence is about trust; firm and bold trust in self. So when we talk about being confident, that's what I think we are talking about." "One hundred percent ready is not a thing that's available to any of us when it comes to doing something new or that we haven't done before." "That's what we need to be talking about, is being so true and so trusting in ourselves that we show up with all that we are, we own everything that we're not, and we choose to embrace all of it. And that would lead us to bring our full and best selves to the leadership table." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Nicole Kalil NicoleKalil.com Validation Is For Parking: How Women Can Beat the Confidence Con, by Nicole Kalil This is Woman's Work podcast Peleton The White Lotus The Confidence Code: The Science and Art of Self-Assurance—What Women Should Know, by Katty Kay and Claire Shipman The Confidence Gap: A Guide to Overcoming Fear and Self-Doubt, by Russ Harris Jeffrey Pfeffer 7 Rules of Power" Surprising—but True—Advice on How to Get Things Done and Advance Your Career, by Jeffrey Pfeffer Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less, by Greg McKeown Greg McKeown

Ed O'Malley is the Founder of the Kansas Leadership Center, President and CEO of the Kansas Health Foundation, and the author of four books, including his latest, "When Everyone Leads." Ed discusses how leadership differs from authority, and that authority is required to lead. He explores the disruptive aspects and the risks of leadership. Ed explains the type of problems authority solves and the challenges that require unleashing the leadership of the whole team to move forward. Listen in for how to move forward when faced with daunting challenges. https://bit.ly/TLP-346 Key Takeaways [3:25] In Ed's book, When Everyone Leads, the key is getting people to separate leadership from authority. In some situations, the reliance on authority gets in the way of progress. We need people to know that even if you're not the captain of the team or boss, the toughest challenges require your leadership, also. The book is about how you unleash that in everybody. [4:45] Ed talks about over-reliance on authority. Authority is necessary, but it's not sufficient for making progress on our biggest problems. Challenges between people need to be resolved by the people involved. [6:14] On our toughest challenges, none of us know exactly the way forward. Trust that the collective is stronger than one person's idea. If we unleash the leadership of others, so they feel empowered to exercise that leadership, then we start making more progress. [6:49] If we assume that we have the answers and we know the best way forward, that conveys a lack of trust in the collective. The toughest challenges get solved by people working together. [8:46] The book is about the toughest challenges. A prerequisite for unleashing leadership in more people is to help people break apart the idea of leadership from the idea of authority. They are different things and people know this intuitively. Ed uses the example of Rosa Parks showing leadership by choosing her seat on the bus. [10:20] Ed wants people to be conscious of the differences between authority, leadership, people holding positions of authority, and people exercising leadership. Sometimes people in authority exercise leadership. Sometimes People not in authority exercise leadership. Sometimes nobody does. If people see it separately, it opens up a conversation about what the exercise of leadership looks like for them. [11:22] Jim cites Jim Detert, author of Choosing Courage, regarding the courage it takes to step up and face big problems. [12:08] Julia McBride, Ed's co-author on the book, would say it's all about clarity of purpose. Those who exercise effective leadership are clear in their deep purpose, and clear on the purpose for the meeting they're walking into and the role they play in that meeting. They're clear on the purpose of the project they're a part of. [12:46] A lot of people's purpose is to keep their boss happy. Our toughest challenges are usually about something a lot bigger than that. Leadership is motivating others to make progress on daunting challenges and it hardly ever happens. [14:24] Ed cites the work of authors Ron Heifetz and Marty Linsky who pioneered the concept of the Zone of Productivity, where there is enough conflict that people are uncomfortable enough to change the status quo, but there is not enough conflict to shut people down. If you don't have enough conflict, nothing is changing. If you have a lot of heat at work, consider if progress is being made in the work. [15:32] If the conflict or heat from the top is not leading to progress, then it's time to ask questions and intervene in the lack of progress. [16:52] An executive team needs a common language to talk about the dynamics of productivity. [17:30] Leadership is always about disrupting things. Ed quotes Marty Linsky, "Leadership is disappointing your own people at a rate they can absorb." When you're intervening up, you can't anger the boss too much; you might be out! But If you're just keeping the boss 100% happy, you might not be doing anything that looks like leadership. [18:02] Jan recalls Jeffrey Pfeffer's 7 Rules of Power. It's evidence-based, controversial, and makes people very uncomfortable. Two of the rules are "Break the rules," and "Show up in a powerful way." These are hard to do. You've got to know how far you can push a boss before you're damaging yourself. [18:36] Ed goes back to being clear about purpose. If your purpose is to get along, be secure, and not rock the boat, you will not get close to exercising leadership. If your purpose is "I want the best value for my clients," or "I'm a sales leader and I'm taking the organization from this level to that level higher," then you'll be willing to disrupt the norms. Leadership is always disruptive and risky. [19:18] Ed says all of our research is showing if you get lots more people exercising leadership and intervening to create more progress it makes it more likely you'll get the progress. It's too tough for one or two people to do alone because it's too disruptive. [20:01] A chapter in the book explores the clash of values. Our toughest challenges are often about value clashes. You may have a value of gaining market share and a clashing value of playing it safe and not developing new products because you have a legacy product that has been winning for so long. Leadership is always about helping a system elevate one value over another. There is loss in that. [21:31] Anyone can ask powerful questions. Ed explains that a powerful question comes from deep curiosity and it's open-ended. A question that has an exact technical answer is not a powerful question, it's a fact-based question. Powerful questions help everyone learn. "What's our greatest aspiration for our organization?", "What concerns us the most?", "What makes progress so hard on those things?" [22:56] Big open-ended questions are powerful and are often game-changing. Powerful questions often make us uncomfortable. They should force us to slow down a little bit and reflect differently. [24:33] Ed interviewed a sage one time who told him, "Ed, that's a great question! And it's a great question because it doesn't have any answers!" If there's an easy answer, it might not be a good question. [25:01] If what you're working on isn't a daunting challenge; if it's run-of-the-mill stuff; if you've got a deadline and the work is technical, and you've got to meet it, you're going to drive everybody crazy if you're walking around asking big, open-ended questions all the time! It's when you're trying to focus people on the things that matter most that these powerful questions are so needed. [26:10] Less senior people may be granted some grace in asking open-ended questions to reveal less knowledge of the organization's purpose. More senior people may ask powerful questions that tend to shape expectations: "How will we respond to some inevitable failure in our attempts to do X?" This introduces the concept of being adaptive. [28:49] The book discusses technical problems vs. daunting adaptive challenges. If you have the authority, say, "We're solving this technical problem this way." But it is a mistake to treat a daunting adaptive challenge as if it were technical. Those types of challenges where the problem is poorly defined and the answer is unknown cannot be solved by your authority alone. You won't get progress. [30:34] Jan tells about Bill Dean. They would be at a problem situation and Bill would say, "OK." It meant he acknowledged, he understood, and they would step back and pause before trying to find out what the issue was. He said OK, and everybody knew it was going to be OK. Jan learned to step back when people are hitting the Panic button. Ed says, on the toughest challenges, help people to go slow. [33:32] Have the awareness to discern when you're facing something adaptive where you don't know the way forward. In that situation, progress is about creating a system that can be iterative, that can be experimental, that can take smart risks, learn from them, and take bigger risks. If the situation doesn't call for that and we bring it, we're just going to create more problems. [34:10] There are a lot of big ideas in the book. One is knowing the difference between the technical problems and the adaptive challenges. They require you to lead differently. Another idea is that your authority is a resource but it is not enough to solve adaptive challenges, so you unleash leadership for others in an iterative, learning environment where risk-taking is expected. [36:25] There are expectations on those in authority. Ed repeats that leadership is disappointing your people at a rate they can absorb. People have expectations of those in authority and history is full of examples of what happens to people in authority if they disrupt those expectations too much. Live within the expectations, but push against them, as well. [37:04] Ed explores how those in authority successfully used leadership during the pandemic to be firm and specific about the process they would use to solve the issue without going into what the outcome of the issue would be. They used authority to help people feel safe and that there is some order to things. They talked about the timeline for bringing the best people together to solve the problem. [38:16] Jim compares how Jessica Chen from the previous podcast episode described the same situation of describing the process you are going through to arrive at an answer when dealing with ambiguity. Jim recommends listening to that episode, as this is a big and important concept. Ed agrees, it is important, but it is hard to practice. Go back to knowing whether it is an adaptive challenge or a technical problem. [39:31] If it's a technical problem and you are in authority, use your authority to solve the problem. For listeners who aren't in authority, Ed reminds you to break apart authority and leadership. If you connect them, it lets everybody off the hook, and it's the CEO's job. That puts too much pressure on those in authority. They can't deliver. The truth is, in the big tough challenges, we've all got a part in the mess. [40:25] Jack Welch said, "You can't scale complexity." Ed's book leads toward simplifying our approach. Jan recommends listeners read Ed's book. It's easy to read and laid out in a way that's very pragmatic. [42:06] Ed's challenge to listeners: "I think we've got to get the bat off our shoulder and take some swings. … Learn how do you take those swings with confidence and skill so you can get a few more hits than you would otherwise." [44:12] Closing quote: Remember, "Unity is strength… When there is teamwork and collaboration, wonderful things can be achieved." — Mattie Stepanek Quotable Quotes "We need people to know that even if you're not the captain of the team, the boss, the CEO of the company, or the mayor of the town, the toughest challenges require your leadership, also." "I think we have an over-reliance on authority. Authority is useful; it's necessary, but it's insufficient for making progress on our biggest challenges." "A prerequisite for unleashing leadership in more people is to help people break apart the idea of leadership from the idea of authority. We've got to get people to see them as two different things. They are totally separate. And I think that intuitively, people know this." "Authority is a role; it's a position, and leadership is an activity. And sometimes those in authority exercise it. But most of the time they don't. And sometimes people not in authority exercise leadership. But a lot of times, they don't." "The book is counter-cultural, in that regard. We're trying to create a new norm for what leadership even is." "Leadership is always about disrupting things." "Leadership is so rare because it's risky; … it's disruptive, which is why all of our research is showing if you get lots more people exercising leadership; intervening to create more progress, it's … more likely you'll get the progress. It's too tough for one or two people." "Big open-ended questions are powerful and they're often game-changing." "If what you're working on isn't a daunting challenge; if it's run-of-the-mill stuff; if you've got a deadline and the work is technical, and you've got to meet it, you're going to drive everybody crazy if you're walking around asking big, open-ended questions all the time." "It's when you're trying to focus people on the things that matter most that these curiosity-based, open-ended, powerful questions are so needed." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Ed O'Malley Kansas Leadership Center Kansas Health Foundation The Colorado Health Foundation When Everyone Leads: How The Toughest Challenges Get Seen And Solved, by Ed O'Malley and Julia Fabris McBride Todd Satterson U.S. Navy SEALS Jim Detert Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work, by Jim Detert Ron Heifetz Marty Linsky 7 Rules of Power: Surprising—but True—Advice on How to Get Things Done and Advance Your Career, by Jeffrey Pfeffer Jeffrey Pfeffer Jessica Chen Jack Welch

Jessica Chen is an Emmy Award winner, keynote speaker, former journalist, and CEO of the global business communications agency Soulcast Media. She is a top LinkedIn Learning instructor with over two million learners on self-awareness, personal branding, and executive presence. In this conversation, Jessica shares her knowledge of the essential qualities linked to emotional intelligence. This episode contains counsel for leaders on communication, storytelling, and self-confidence. https://bit.ly/TLP-345 Key Takeaways [2:50] Jessica recently became a new mom. Her little boy just turned one. Becoming a mother was a huge life transition for Jessica. She read parent books about it, but when the baby was born, Jessica learned you've just got to roll with the punches, taking care of a baby. [5:55] Jessica teaches executive presence as how you make other people feel. It depends on the situation and the people. It is learning the soft skills of emotional intelligence. Unconscious bias leads to differences in application between men and women leaders and young and old leaders. Having self-awareness, and speaking clearly and precisely can help you show up and be heard as you want. [8:38] Building credibility is learning how to talk about the things that you have done and owning that. That's a part of showing up. [10:17] Do you deal with a difficult boss? It's hard to do good work when you're micromanaged. Jessica asks, how can you reduce this communications friction? Ask yourself, "What does my manager care about?" Speak their language, consider to whom they are accountable, make them look good, and anticipate what they need. Care about what your manager cares about. Then they will feel you get it. [12:19] If your boss is a bully, that is a terrible position to be in. If you have identified that your boss is completely treating you unfairly, that is not the right environment for you. Ask yourself what are your options. [14:27] If you have lots of substance but very little style, Jessica has some tips for you. Put some color in your speech. Growing up as a woman in a traditional Asian family, Jessica was not taught to put color in her conversation. She was taught to do the work without disturbing anybody. That way of working is not going to help you build the visibility you need in a workplace with charismatic people. [15:24] Style is what makes you memorable. We all have to do good work and perform in our job. It's expected. What makes you memorable is your ability to add some color, meaning energy. The words that you choose to say and the energy and emotion you use can make you stand out with color and style. Finding your color and style makes you memorable. [16:55] Jessica talks about brand. Jessica calls it your career brand. All of us need to think about building a career brand. It's not about social media, although she says LinkedIn is a fantastic place to build your career brand and thought leadership. Thought leadership is important in people seeing you as an expert. [17:47] For listeners not on LinkedIn, consider how you can build thought leadership within your team and organization. Seek opportunities to contribute to a workplace blog. Or simply be more visible by getting on board with some projects so people in other departments can see you. [19:33] A person at a company can make a story good by humanizing it. Who are the people that the numbers in your presentation represent? Behind every customer number is a person with experience and a journey. Humanize the metrics to share the difficult journey the customer went through. Don't just report the issue, find somebody to report the issue through. [22:35] To influence your team to adopt a new process, tell the process through someone's lived experience. Use a made-up name with a real event. [24:03] Jan and Jessica both acknowledge and thank Dean Karrel at LinkedIn Learning for connecting them. Dean is the ultimate connector, asking for nothing in return. [26:23] In the working world, you need to take a lot of information and condense it. The schools should teach conciseness and precision in our speaking. If you're speaking too long, pause and ask yourself this question, "What's the point I'm trying to make?" Then get back on track and get to the point. You can say it out loud: "What I'm trying to say here is, A, B, and C." [29:13] Jessica shares an aphorism: "A wealth of information creates a poverty of attention." In communication, capturing people's attention should be your priority. Think about what your audience wants to hear and what they care about. You may have 10 things to share, but what are the three things you want everyone to walk away with? It takes more work to winnow it down, but it is well worth it. [31:03] Good presenters connect their points seamlessly. They communicate the link between the points. It's up to the presenter to talk about that. Use transition words, like "In addition," or "this brings me now to this point." Present the relationship between A, B, and C clearly. [33:02] Jessica prefers to prepare carefully rather than be thrust into a high-pressure situation where she has to think on her feet. But she had experience in her journalism days of being thrown into a breaking news situation and having to report the story as it unfolds. Sometimes on the scene, it is sufficient to report what you have already done. That may be what people want to know. [34:03] Communicating the process is a part of communicating and people appreciate it. [36:20] Jessica taught a LinkedIn Learning course on Speaking Up at Work. If she could go back and add one thing to that course, it would be along the lines of building an inclusive speaking environment. How can we all take a proactive approach to making others feel more comfortable speaking up? How can we pave the way for the more quiet person to raise their hand? The loudest person often gets the attention. [38:34] Western society values people who are able to speak up. Eastern culture doesn't tend to put as much value in verbalizing thoughts but the people still have thoughts. Folks who are working with Asians or other minorities on their teams need to be open-minded about some of these assumptions. Being quiet doesn't mean they don't care or they're not engaged. They still want to contribute. [40:00] It can be detrimental to generalize. There are so many different Asian ethnicities. In general, Asian men and women both tend to be humble and show respect and pursue harmony. Being quiet doesn't mean they don't have a lot of value to give. [41:28] Past guest, CEO Colleen Abdoulah had a rule at her company, "Hold your views lightly." Jan and Jessica agree that having self-awareness and open-mindedness about the people in the room and not assuming certain things about them. There is a diversity in thinking and a diversity in processing. That can help us be more inclusive speakers. [43:19] Jessica sees people struggling with confidence in how they show up in the workplace. They don't feel confident speaking up in a meeting and being perceived the way they want to be perceived. Jessica's specialty is teaching the communication tool to show up and speak up better. She tells them she is happy they are acknowledging this friction and are taking steps to build their confidence. [44:29] The only way to become more confident is to put yourself in these positions and continuously practice while doing it consciously. [46:38] Jessica's advice to senior workers who are reluctant to speak up: "These days, there's always such a reaction to people saying things. … Trust your experience. … Clearly demonstrate your understanding of a thing you want to express. Qualify and quantify what you want to say and then package it in a way that shows your expertise. People will listen. … Own it and provide examples." [49:21] Jessica's challenge to listeners: "I truly think communication is one of the most important skills for workplace success, regardless of what level you are at. I would challenge the listeners to think about 'How can I improve my communication skills this year at work?' … Whatever it is, there's always going to be great ROI if you invest in your communication skills." [50:33] Closing quote: Remember, "Great is our admiration of the orator who speaks with fluency and discretion." — Marcus Tullius Cicero Quotable Quotes "If I'm doing a presentation and I want to get my team excited … [I] can leverage some of the soft skills to get them to feel that way." "All of us need to think about building a career brand. But it's not in the way of social media, especially if you're working in a typical office. … Though, I will say LinkedIn is a fantastic platform to build your career brand." "Ask yourself, 'What's the point I'm trying to make here?' … Clarify and get back on track. … Sometimes you've just got to remember to reign yourself back in." "Every good presenter is able to connect their points seamlessly." "How can we all take a proactive approach to making others feel more comfortable speaking up? How can we pave the way so that the more quiet person on your team feels comfortable raising their hand?" "The only way to become more confident is you just have to put yourself in these positions and continuously practice while doing it consciously, of course." "Communication is one of the most important skills for workplace success, regardless of what level you are at. … There's always going to be great ROI if you invest in your communication skills." Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Jessica Chen Soulcast Media Jessica Chen on LinkedIn Learning What to Expect When You're Expecting, by Heidi Murkoff Get Out of My Life, but First Could You Drive Me & Cheryl to the Mall: A Parent's Guide to the New Teenager, by Anthony E. Wolf Jeffrey Pfeffer How to Win Friends & Influence People, by Dale Carnegie Dean Karrel on LinkedIn Learning The National Western Stock Show Deepa Purushothaman Colleen Abdoulah

Jamie Ryder is the founder of Stoic Athenaeum. He's on a mission to make philosophy sexy and down to earth. He's focused on breaking stigmas about mental health and leadership. He says that everyone has a philosophy they live by every day and the more they understand their philosophy, the more they will know how to communicate with others. Listen in for wisdom on stepping back for a wider view to move forward. https://bit.ly/TLP-344 Key Takeaways [1:57] When Jamie was young, he wanted to be either a wrestler or a writer; two different types of storytelling. He always liked the larger-than-life characters of wrestling. When he was 16, he trained as a wrestler in Manchester. But while wrestling was fascinating, he had more aspirations to write stories. [4:32] Jamie believes philosophy needs to be lived. He has never been trained in philosophy academically. He describes the attraction Stoic philosophy holds for him, including the mental health aspect of it. Everybody has a philosophy or values they show up in the world with, that makes them who they are. It's something that you live and breathe. [5:54] Jamie believes there are therapeutic mental health benefits to philosophy. [6:44] Philosophy permits you to be vulnerable with yourself. There is always an amount of uncertainty you will have to deal with. Stoicism helps Jamie identify the things he can or can't control and navigate uncertain situations, such as the pandemic. [7:17] Jamie recommends two practical exercises: "The Premeditation of Adversity," attributed to Seneca, and "The View from Above," by Marcus Aurelius. The Premeditation of Adversity builds resilience. Imagine the worst-case scenario and prepare for it. It helps Jamie calm down any anxiety he has about upcoming events. The View from Above is to take a high-level perspective of a situation. [10:01] Give yourself permission to carve out time to practice The Premeditation of Adversity before events and The View from Above after events. [12:00] By studying philosophy, Jamie learned that values are intrinsic in us and we have the power to make experiences make sense to us. By looking at different philosophers and schools of thought, Jamie instilled their activities and lessons into his life. Philosophy is a lot of small acts you do again and again. It becomes accessible and habit-forming as you repeat the exercises. [13:43] Jamie would recommend that you start exploring philosophy with Meditations, by Marcus Aurelius. You don't need to know philosophy or Stoicism to understand Meditations. Marcus Aurelius was journaling for himself, 2,000 years ago. You can see he was trying to be an honorable person. If he had a bad day, he tried something different. On the second reading, it took on new meaning for Jamie. [15:09] Jamie also recommends Letters from a Stoic, by Seneca. Seneca was writing to his friend, distilling lessons he'd learned over a lifetime. You can pick one letter to read a day, and you will find something that resonates with you today from 2,000 years ago. [15:36] Stoicism was Jamie's gateway into philosophy. He has also studied Skepticism, Existentialism, and Epicureanism. Another book recommendation Jamie gives is The Essays, by Michel de Montaigne. What de Montaigne wrote about a few hundred years ago are the same issues people face day in and day out. [18:09] Jamie explains the symbiotic relationship between creativity and curiosity. [20:10] Stoic philosophy involves stepping back and slowing down, which is different from typical business goals. At its crux, it's about trying to focus on what you can control and what you can't control. It means taking a break from things. [21:45] Jamie shares tips for creative writing for business: have a tone-of-voice guide beforehand and then you can push the message across social media, emails, and wherever you need to be to communicate that message. Create it in a voice that makes sense to you and has a connection to the audience you are trying to build community with. [23:30] Michel de Montaigne created the genre of philosophical writings known as essays. He created boundaries around himself where he could be alone, take a moment to breathe, and be himself. [26:36] Writing tips: Start with writing a stream of consciousness. This goes back to de Montaigne. Create an environment where you feel comfortable, such as going for a walk or an activity that you are happy to do. Take a step back, then go back to it. Read as much as possible and pick out ideas you might not have thought about before. Distill it down into what you are trying to create on the page. [28:05] To learn storytelling, start with authenticity. "This is my story. I've been through this and it makes sense to me. It communicates to the audience, as well." It needs to have substance and reflect your values and principles. If there is a cause you support, you need to have the substance behind it, as well. Use ethical rhetoric to support a cause that has substance. [29:13] Cicero used rhetoric to great effect. Aristotle introduced the three proofs: Logos, Pathos, and Ethos. [30:28] Leaders need to be concerned about their people; they need to learn to lead themselves so they can lead others. Logos is for persuasion. Ethos is your character. Pathos is connecting with people and empowering them to share their emotions or connect with their customers. Others have different views. [32:18] Jamie's storytelling advice to leaders: Ask questions and learn from the stories of people around you but "You need your personal values that work into that to create your unique and authentic story, as well. … I would just always remember that it's always a learning experience." [34:49] Closing quote: Remember, "A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears." — Michel de Montaigne Quotable Quotes "When I was young, I either chose to be a wrestler or a writer; [they're] different types of storytelling. … I chose to be a writer but I will always appreciate what [wrestling] taught me." "There is a tendency to say that philosophy can seem quite high-minded or academic, … where it's not, because it is something that you live and breathe." "Prior to the pandemic, I felt quite burnt out about a few things, but then, while discovering the subject of philosophy, it clicked, in the sense that it's something that you can control within the Stoic aspect. … From a mental health aspect, it made a lot of sense for me." "I would always recommend Marcus Aurelius's Meditations, because that, to me, is a book that you don't even need to know what philosophy is, or Stoicism is, to really get to it. In context, Marcus was literally just writing to himself 2,000 years ago." "It's about balance, as well. … Sometimes you do need to take that step back and just reassess." "[To write effectively,] create an environment for yourself where you feel comfortable. … Read as much as possible, … picking ideas from things that are outside your comfort zone, … and then just distilling it down." "It starts with authenticity. … Creating that sense that 'This is my story,' or "I've been through this.'" Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Jamie Ryder Stoic Athenaeum WWE The Premeditation of Adversity Seneca Marcus Aurelius Limitless with Chris Hemsworth Meditations, by Marcus Aurelius Letters from a Stoic, by Lucius Annaeus Seneca Skepticism Existentialism Epicureanism The Essays, by Michel de Montaigne Mike Lerario Donald Robertson Schopenhauer Cicero Aristotle and the three proofs

Patrick Bryant is a serial entrepreneur, professional speaker, and co-founder and CEO of software product agency CODE/+/TRUST. After co-founding Go To Team, Patrick launched six multi-million-dollar companies, in media, and software. Patrick shares wisdom gained from his experience in start-ups, his origin as a journalist, what he accomplished in video, and the CODE/+/TRUST "BHAG" for powering startups around the U.S. He discusses culture, scaling, storytelling, and how the first thing for an entrepreneur to do is to start.https://bit.ly/TLP-343 Key Takeaways [1:15] If you have listened to every episode of The Leadership Podcast, please contact Jan and Jim to let them know. They would love to hear it and there might be something in it for you! [2:27] Most people don't know that Patrick owns a rolling paper company that he started after investing in a cigar company. Most people know him from software, media, and other things, like speaking. [3:40] Patrick's always getting into unexpected situations. He just keeps showing up for work and looking for interesting things. He's curious and asks questions. His original profession was journalism and he learned to study industries and areas of interest to him. Many times, it results in a business idea. When he sees an opportunity, he strikes it. [6:07] Patrick believes entrepreneurship is the number one change agent in the world. It is amazingly helpful to society to do something new and do it right. [7:19] There are businesses that are built to scale and others that are not. In a field, you may have grass, bushes, and a large oak tree. The large oak tree did not start as a blade of grass! It takes time to know the "species" of businesses. Patrick started the video company, Go To Team, 25 years ago. It has 16 offices around the U.S. It hit a $1 million valuation when it was 10 years old. That felt great to Patrick! [8:43] Another company that started the same week as Go To Team is Google. In 10 years, Google had been publicly traded and people were using its name as a verb! Patrick wondered what he was doing wrong. He started to study innovation scale — how to build companies and products that are built to move quickly in a big way and be sold around the world. That pushed Patrick toward software. [9:58] Scaling is different between software and service companies. A service company can go a long time with continued operation, but not a lot of growth. A software product requires investments and a certain level of sales. If the sales don't come, it's over. The money's gone and the investors aren't going to pour more money into the company. There is risk involved in software. [12:43] Journalism, television, and all media have changed greatly since the start of the internet. There is confusion and fragmentation. Patrick foresees us slowly getting back to moderation and looking for experts and gatekeepers we can trust to provide us with the content we want in the way we want it. We don't yet have the new Walter Cronkite or Tom Brokaw. [15:39] Patrick's company, CODE/+/TRUST, sells code and trust. They help people start software companies. Their "BHAG" is to power 500 software startups in every state in the U.S. and be an official software development firm for entrepreneurs. They want to connect with good ideas, spend a lot of time on them, grow them, feel good about what they produce, and help entrepreneurs make money. [18:41] First and foremost, get one thing right. You can have multiple ways to attack a problem but you can only have one mission. The mission and values cannot change. [19:15] Patrick is working on a TEDx speech for March on the schizophrenic nature of advice to entrepreneurs. For instance, Winston Churchill's message of never giving up contrasts with the advice to fail fast. All leaders need to understand this: mission and values do not move. We are not giving up on our mission. Tactics and goals that don't get us there need to be stopped. [21:51] Patrick's big "Aha" moment is that not all advice is equal. Advice from your Grandma on how to live a good life might be great, but her advice on how to run your business might not be great. Where does the advice come from? How does it work with your core values? [23:14] Advice can be great for one individual that's not great for the next one. Patrick is a value investor. He likes to buy stocks that are low, for the long term. That's what he reads about. Blogs about day trade opportunities are not useful advice for him. Patrick says that if every CEO learned the right way to take advice, they would be the last 10% of "amazing." It's one of the hardest things. [25:34] Patrick separates User Experience from Customer Experience or navigating the software from working the sales funnel. Patrick focuses on providing customers with what they need, not what they want. Henry Ford said that if he asked his customers what they wanted, they would have said, "a faster horse." We have to have the view that we know some things about where the customer wants to go. [27:05] Patrick's business partner, CTO at CODE/+/TRUST, does software design. He's opinionated and will stand his ground in a positive way with customers because he believes he knows where the customer is trying to go. Designers must come to the discussion with views on what they believe for the customer. Patrick shares the surprising results of a Lay's Potato Chip survey and taste test. [28:59] The Lay's experience illustrates the way that we have to come to the process, which is customer first, but educated on how to make it as simple and clean and smooth an experience for them as possible, almost regardless of what they think. [30:38] Event.gives is a company of Patrick's in the non-profit space. Attendees fill out their profiles and can then move from event to event without re-entering their data. Nonprofits argued that it is their data, but Patrick points out that individuals own their data, and they are the ones with the right to release it to the non-profit. Always go back to the individual and what their rights and choices are. [33:20] Software and media for kids have the added responsibility of providing them with reasonable opportunities for learning. Patrick always tries to start at the core mission, protecting people's privacy, and allowing them the right to control their data. [34:53] As a journalist, Patrick learned that it's all about telling stories. Master storytellers influence in positive ways. The slogan for Go To Team for years was Passionate Storytellers. Storytelling is a helpful skill that allows you to communicate the data that you want and to emotionally connect with people. The goal is to be ordinarily extraordinary in your storytelling so people connect with your message. [36:29] Patrick explains how to use storytelling to make products socially contagious by connecting the brand to the customer's lifestyle. [37:32] Do not put your story in an email! How you tell your story depends on who the audience is. Patrick has run a video company for 25 years. He recommends using video to tell your story. It connects to people in a much more important way than the written word. Engaging with people in person and telling your story on stage is incredibly emotional and powerful. Connect with people in person. [39:30] Making people laugh and tugging at their heartstrings brings them along with the story. Use emotion to motivate people, educate them, and make them get excited. [41:59] Patrick refers to himself as a made entrepreneur. He doesn't have to go to work tomorrow and his basic life needs will be taken care of. Like many of his peers and friends, Patrick enjoys the fight. He enjoys being in the company. He enjoys starting new things. He enjoys the idea stage and helping others and finding connections with the product-market fit. He keeps coming back for that super joy. [42:55] When a company gets to have between 10 and 20 employees and people start asking Patrick about policies, that's his sign to go and start a new company. He doesn't want to write policies and procedures around when you get off of work and what days are holidays. He doesn't think that way. Starting another company re-energizes him to go attack the next idea. [43:51] As Patrick grows a company, and adds people, he's thrilled by it. He loves it. The mission still stands and the values are great. He can't wait to see the team execute on the goal. But it's no longer energizing for him. Starting the rollercoaster over is what he loves. [45:27] Patrick's closing thoughts, to anyone in a transition stage, just get started. Look for something that you can develop expertise in. What one thing can you do to sell that expertise and move forward an idea in that particular industry, right now, today? "That's my core advice, just get started." [47:59] Closing quote: Remember, "Trust is the glue of life. It's the most essential ingredient in effective communication. It's the foundational principle that holds all relationships." — Steven Covey Quotable Quotes "Well, I don't know how you could follow my path. I had the interesting time of being on the Mall two years ago, here in Washington D.C., where I am today, for January 6. I think of myself as a little bit of a Forrest Gump. I don't know how I get into some of these situations!" "I'm just curious. I ask people questions. As a journalist for many years of my life, … I just learned to study and get my head around industries and areas of interest of mine. And many times, that results in a business idea. And when I see opportunity, I strike it." "Just start something, just talk to someone, just learn what someone needs. … I just don't understand why entrepreneurs … can't just take an opportunity and run with it. … So that's my number one piece of advice … find something you're interested in and get started." "I believe entrepreneurship is the number one change agent in the world. I say it on stages around the United States. I just believe that as entrepreneurs, we are doing something profound and exciting when we are developing a new product … or bringing out a new process." "The best way to make money is to make somebody else more money. That, to me, is where relationships come in and you're helping someone move forward as an entrepreneur." "If you show up to help other people and do the good, right thing, you will have business for as long as you can see it because people will acknowledge and trust you and want to work with you on what they need." "You can have multiple goals; … multiple tactics; … multiple ways that you're attacking a problem but you can only have one mission. You can have core values that support how you're going to move forward with that mission. The mission and the values can't change." "Advice can be great for one individual that's not great for the next one." "The way that we have to come at the process … is, customer first, but educated on how to make it as simple and clean and smooth an experience for them as possible, almost regardless of what they think." "With storytelling and laughter, camaraderie, and building a culture that people really want to be there; they really want to help move the mission forward, you can get people going 60, 70 miles per hour without a lot of effort." "Every time I get to a place of success, I immediately start thinking, 'Man, it would be cool to go back to the beginning. How can we do this again?' It's just so much fun to start the rollercoaster over!" Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Patrick Bryant CODE/+/TRUST Go To Team Shine Rolling Papers Monica Lewinski Liberty Fellowship The Aspen Institute Walter Cronkite Tom Brokaw BHAG Colin Gray at Purdue The Experience Economy, by Joe Pine II and James H. Gilmore Joe Pine Jim Gilmore Lay's Potato Chips Event.gives Seth Godin EBITDA