Spill The Ink

The state (and future) of the legal industry is drastically different from what it was 10 years ago. The rise of legal tech and social media platforms like LinkedIn are changing the way law firms operate and market their services to clients. Meanwhile, the role of firm culture in recruitment and retainment is shifting priorities for in-house marketers and business developers. What can legal marketers expect from 2023? In this episode of Spill the Ink, Michelle Calcote King and Kevin Aschenbrenner, the Senior Director of Public Relations at Reputation Ink, discuss the evolution of the legal industry and the trends that will shape the next decade of marketing and branding.  Michelle and Kevin also talk about how a firm’s legal marketing department can help keep them afloat during a recession, strategies for working with influencers to expand reach, the importance of niching down, and more. Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn What trends shaped legal marketing and public relations in 2022? What are non-media influencers and why are they an important target for firms who want to grow their brand? How can firms communicate their culture to help with recruitment? Why recessions are great times to invest in marketing Social media strategy considerations for 2023 About our featured guest Kevin Aschenbrenner is the Senior Director of PR at Reputation Ink. Kevin is a seasoned PR and communications consultant with more than two decades of legal industry experience. Kevin has worked with firms from across the United States and Canada, as well as in the EU, UK and China. His clients range from boutique, specialty, or mid-level firms to members of the Am Law 25. He has represented Fortune 500 consumer products companies, colleges and universities, start-ups and technology companies, non-profits, authors and speakers.   Resources mentioned in this episode Follow Reputation Ink on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram Connect with Kevin Aschenbrenner on LinkedIn Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on Twitter and LinkedIn Blog post: “A Legal Tech Professional’s Guide to the Media You Must Know: The Bloggers and Media Outlets” Blog post: “How to Build a Following on Your Law Firm’s Linkedin Company Page” Blog post: “Why Law Firms Need to Know About the ‘Excess Share of Voice’ Rule” Blog post: “How To Get Your Employees to Share Your Content (And Why It’s so Important)” Sponsor for this episode This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink. Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.  Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more. To learn more visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today. Transcript [00:00:00] Michelle Calcote King: Recessions — like real estate investing— recessions are when you really get ahead if you can make that investment, it's time to invest in marketing. The winners, if they can do it, will be the ones that keep their foot on the pedal and honestly do more during a recession. Because marketing is just such a long-term game and you can get further because a lot of companies do cut back during a recession. There will be less competition for your voice during a recession. [music] [00:00:39] Welcome to Spill the Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink. Where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now, let's get started with the show. [00:00:56] Michelle: Hi, everyone. I'm Michelle Calcote King, I'm your host, and I'm the principal and president of Reputation Ink. We're a public relations and content marketing agency for law firms and other professional services firms. To learn more, go to rep-ink, that's Ink with a K.com.  We're changing things up a little bit with this episode and with Spill The Ink in December. I've invited members of my own team here at Reputation Ink to come on the show and interview me and overall just share in a great conversation about the state of PR and marketing and professional services industries.  Today, I'm going to have a gentleman who has extensive knowledge in the legal field. I'm welcoming Kevin Aschenbrenner to Spill the Ink. He's going to talk about the legal industry trends and we're going to discuss our favorite strategies for securing placements for law firms and legal services providers. For those of you who haven't had the pleasure of meeting Kevin, he's our Senior Director of Public Relations. He has been working with law firms for most of his entire career, more than 20 years. He and I have a long history together. We've worked at another agency together. Kevin knows the legal PR world inside and out. Thanks for joining me. [00:02:20] Kevin Aschenbrenner: You're welcome. Nice to be here on this side of the mic. [00:02:26] Michelle: Yes, this will be fun. [00:02:28] Kevin: Usually, I'm setting up clients to do this thing, so it's nice to be doing it myself. [00:02:36] Michelle: I know people always think PR people are extroverts and I'm like, "No, we're the people in the background putting the extroverts on the stage," right? [00:02:44] Kevin: Exactly. Exactly. Yes. [00:02:46] Michelle: You're going to interview me about the state of legal PR and marketing. [00:02:53] Kevin: Yes, exactly. Why don't we start off by taking a look at 2022 and some of the trends that shaped legal PR and content marketing over the past year? [00:03:06] Michelle: As everyone knows, it's been an interesting couple of years with COVID, then we think COVID's over, and then the return to the office and all of this. Law firms aren't immune to any of that. Certainly, there's been a couple of things happening in the legal world. One that we've seen is niching down, it has become more and more of an important strategy from a marketing and PR perspective, and also just from how law firms operate. The law firms that we work with that seem to really get the most attention from the press, who do well on social media, and just really get the most ROI for their efforts are those who have figured out niching down, meaning really becoming known as an expert in a particular area of the law whether it's an industry or a certain practice. It's a very effective strategy. It's just a busy world right now. Even sophisticated legal buyers, they want to know that they're speaking to the person who holds all that expertise in a particular area so sourcing. I know you've seen it quite a bit with your clients. [00:04:23] Kevin: I have. I think to the extent that the more strategic you can be and focused in your efforts that way it increases measurability, you can be more effective because you're only focusing your efforts and your limited amount of time, bandwidth, and budget to a specific effort, and you can measure it better, and then you can ensure it's aligning with the rest of the strategies for your firm. Let's say if you have a really strong intellectual property practice, you want to be focusing on that. It's where money is coming in, business is coming in. If you put effort into that, then you can also measure it and see it grow in ROI, and that looks great for the executive committee, and everyone can be assured that time and money is being spent in the right place. [00:05:19] Michelle: Yes, absolutely. I think some of the other trends you and I were brainstorming earlier about is consolidation in the media with fewer media outlets. Where do you see that? I don't mean to turn the table back on you, I know you're supposed to interview me, but where do you see is that? If we have consolidation, what does that mean for law firms? What do they have to change about their strategies? [00:05:42] Kevin: I think you just have to be pitching really good stories. That has always been the case. There are fewer reporters at fewer outlets covering fewer things. They, like everyone in the digital space right now, they're governed by clicks, they're governed by interest, and they really have to ensure that they're providing their audience with value and with information that they're going to come to see and pay to see if they're behind a gate, a paywall. I think you really have to be pitching quality stuff. It was never the case for me and anyone that I ever worked with that we would pitch stuff that just wasn't relevant to a reporter just because we had to pitch it. I think that's, even more, the case. You can't waste their time, they're very busy. I think I saw a stat, it came from Cision the other day, that I think that only 3% of pitches get read or result in the story. There's a lot of noise out there and you really have to be focused and just get to know the key people who cover you, your firm very, very well and what they will cover and what they won't. [00:07:02] Michelle: Along the same lines, the media consolidates, but we're also seeing— I think it's very much due to the rise of social media, is non-media influencers. These are people that have really developed a strong reputation in a particular area, who have a strong following on social media. People tend to take what they say very seriously. I know that we've been doing a bit of that, helping our clients identify who are the people in a particular space. I think the next one we're going to talk about with legal tech but this is especially so in legal tech we're really seeing a lot of influencers pop up and it's important to include that in your strategy as well. [00:07:49] Kevin: It really is. Also, include them properly. Influencers aren't media. Their job is to build their own brand and they've spent a lot of time putting effort and money to grow their audience and grow their reputation. It's not like they're a reporter where they're getting paid to publish something. When you work with an influencer, you can't just approach them and expect that they're going to lend you their name in recognition just because you asked, there has to be a bit of a quick pro quo. They have to get some ROI from it too. I know there are some things that we've been encouraging, you in particular encouraging clients to consider, which is work with influencers on specific projects. Do a research study together, do a research project together, do something where you're going to generate news, you're going to generate data and then you can both share the awareness bump out of it. Do something that benefits both sides. With influencers, you really, really have to do that. [00:09:04] Michelle: Absolutely. That goes to the next point I wanted to make in terms of this year. Legal tech just continues to explode. I know it didn't just happen last year, but last year seemed to be a year where legal tech really took hold in the media's focus. I know that for some of our clients, CLM; Contract Lifecycle Management was a big topic. This is going to continue to be an area that gets really heavily covered. If you're anywhere near this space, it's important to keep track. We've written a couple of blog posts with some guides on podcasts and blogs to read up on, but it's definitely not going away and it's going to continue in importance. [00:09:57] Kevin: I think so definitely. Also, the legal media are paying more attention to legal tech. There are outlets devoted to legal tech, Bob Ambrogi's LawSites and Legaltech News from ALM, but there's also more like the straight legal media is paying attention to legal tech. Yes, CLM was quite big this past year. We saw massive funding announcements and massive acquisitions. That may cool a little bit now, and it has cooled with the rise in interest rates, but once that stabilizes we'll probably continue to see that as well. That's a niche in a market that's going to continue to experience growth and change definitely. [00:10:58] Kevin: Yes, that was the year-end review, some big touchpoints from the year-end review. What are you hearing as you talk to legal marketers, clients, other folks, legal tech companies, what's keeping them up at night right now? [00:11:15] Michelle: Yes. I talked to a lot of legal marketers, and actually, I had the pleasure of sitting in on managing partners' round table and hearing from them. I'm hearing a lot of talk about recession. Will there be one? Would that result in layoffs? We've already seen reports of layoffs at some firms, it's this idea of stealth layoffs.  As marketers recession talk, it's always the fear that marketing's going to be the first thing to take a hit. Even if you're not worried about your job, marketers are worried about the hit that that will take to the long-term health and performance of marketing because marketing — honestly it sounds so self-serving to say it. I hate to say it sometimes because it does sound so self-serving but really recessions — sort of like real estate investing — recessions are when you really get ahead if you can make that investment. It's time to invest in marketing. The winners, if they can do it, will be the ones that keep their foot on the pedal and honestly do more during a recession because marketing's just such a long-term game. You can get further because a lot of companies do cut back during a recession. There will be less competition for your voice during a recession. [00:12:48] Kevin: Yes. I've also found too— I mean I've been through a couple of downturns now 2008, which was devastating for law firms. You and I both have been through that one. Also, the 2020 dip was pretty devastating for law firms too. There were a lot of furloughs, layoffs, that kind of thing. I think that in recessions it is important not to lose ground. Also in recessions, everyone in a firm, everyone in a company becomes very focused on marketing. Marketing tends to become a huge focus number one because it's got to show ROI for the money being spent. Number two, because everyone's like, "We don't have business, now we have to market." Suddenly people who have never paid attention to marketing within the firm or company are all about marketing. They want to know. [00:13:45] Michelle: And it's the worst-case scenario. [00:13:48] Kevin: It really is. [00:13:49] Michelle: You don't start marketing whenever you need business because it's just-- [00:13:53] Kevin: No, it's a consistent thing. I like your point about staying focused on the long-term, the horizon. Don't lose ground now. Yes, you might have to trim. Yes, you might have to be a little more focused in your efforts, but keep doing what works and what has worked for your firm, I think. [00:14:16] Michelle: Yes, absolutely. What was interesting to me was at the LMASE which is the Southeastern conference of the Legal Marketing Association. Their theme this year was on culture. A lot of it was about what's the role of marketing in law firm culture? And is there a role? I was part of the committee. I think marketers have a big role in culture. If anything, they're the ones communicating that culture to prospective clients, to prospective attorneys, and how you present that culture is important. You have a good handle on what that culture is and make sure it's a positive one before you start promoting it. I thought that was pretty interesting that that's— I think it comes from a place of other trends that have been at the forefront. Things like diversity, things like environmental, social, and government topics; ESG. Those things are pushing law firms to not be just so focused on the billable hour and how much money everyone's making, but really making this an environment where people can thrive and people of all backgrounds can thrive and present their full selves. Then also things like mental health took a forefront as well. This is an industry that has a very bad track record in mental health. All of those things come together. I think marketing still sits at the forefront. I know many marketers who are tasked with quantifying diversity for their firms, who have to showcase diversity in RFPs. All of those softer topics are really taking center stage. [00:16:09] Kevin: Yes. I think it's really been driven because law firm clients are demanding it. They're demanding to know what's going on with diversity. They're demanding to know, "Okay, am I not just working with a partner who's going to talk to me and then I'm going to be given to lower level associates for all the work?" But also are you training up those lower associates and senior associates and younger partners to have continuity if I bring you business? If the rainmaker goes away is the work left and what happens to the quality of work for the client?  I think that firms that are really focusing on culture and not just giving it lip service. We've had so many years where diversity was given just lip service and equality and inclusion, and nothing was actually done. You did not see associates getting into partner ranks. 2020, I think that brought all that into focus. I hope and I believe that a lot of firms are doing very practical things to increase diversity amongst new hires, amongst associates, and then foster a path. I think it's up to marketing to help communicate that and show it because it's all through recruiting. It's a recruiting thing, it is a recruiting benefit to show you're walking the talk and you're taking action. That often falls on law firms to communicate about recruiting and efforts and show that the firm is serious about these things. [00:17:59] Michelle: Yes. That goes to another trend that we're seeing, and I'm seeing it in other industries too, where recruiting and marketing are overlapping. Because recruiting nowadays, people take a look at the website, they look at social media, they have more tools, just like a prospective buyer has more tools to self-research and self-select through and figure out, "Is this the firm I want to work with?" A prospective attorney or other professional is going to look at the marketing and that's going to drive a lot of their decisions. HR and marketing have to really work in tandem because that's a very important audience in today's recruiting environment where it's a tough one. There's a real overlap.  Then I know going back to the recession point, I think there seems to be more concern in legal tech a little bit— I'm just seeing that from an outsider's perspective here, but about what does a potential recession look like in terms of funding? There's been a lot of funding that's flooded into the legal tech space, but what will a recession do to that? That always puts greater pressure on marketers to make sure that they're showing ROI as well, whenever that becomes squeezed. [00:19:34] Kevin: Yes. I think in some clients I talked to in the legal tech space, they're thinking that that market is going to be a little flat for 2023. Depending on how a recession shakes out, people are not going to be as free with money and maybe that's a good thing. Maybe there are companies that are operating effectively, marketing effectively will be distinguished by that. It might be a bit of a crucible time for some companies. I think just the same thing goes, don't slash your marketing budget. Don't fire the marketing team, they're actually useful, and they're going to ensure that you have business through 2023 into 2024 and whatever comes next. [00:20:25] Michelle: To use the term that I borrowed from another guest, they are your revenue-enablers. [00:20:32] Kevin: They really are. I like that term. I like that term your revenue enablers.  We've covered 2022 and what's worrying legal marketers. How should people prepare for the year ahead, for 2023? [00:20:54] Michelle: We've touched on this but like I said recessions are a great time to stand out. There are going to be companies that cut back. This is the time to show that you are healthy, you're an active firm that is doing deals and winning cases, that you've got the expertise, you're keeping a pulse on trends and issues that your clients are facing. This is the time to really continue to get that share of voice which we've talked about on our blog but meaning that you're really making sure you share voices to the level that you need it to be to get the reputation that you need to build that business. Continue to focus on niching. Niching doesn't mean rearranging your entire legal practice, your entire law firm but it means more strategically thinking about what areas might bring in more work and then focusing your marketing dollars there. Not spreading everything out. Certainly, if you've got a marketing budget like GEICO does and you can hit every area but most firms don't have like a consumer products budget and so they have to pick and choose and that's where being more strategic and thinking through where are we likely to see more work? Where can we really carve out a reputation as a deep expert in an area? That's going to get you more ROI than really spreading yourself across the thing.  Then going back to the discussion around culture, I think marketers should be the people that really are constantly talking to their lawyers, clients, and thought leaders and they're really keeping a pulse on what's happening in the industry. They should be the one bringing to partners and senior leadership that clients are focused on diversity or clients are focused on ESG, whatever it is. As a marketer, you should make sure that you're doing that regular canvassing and talking to people as well. I wanted to touch-- Oh, go ahead. Sorry. [00:23:13] Kevin: No, go ahead. Go ahead. [00:23:14] Michelle: I wanted to touch on Twitter and social media. Social media is here to stay. I'll never forget a conversation I had early on in my business where a very senior, senior person said to me that social media was a fad. Every now and then I think back to it, this was like 11 years ago but social media is how we communicate nowadays. It's no longer this new thing that the young folks are on. It's really how we communicate as people. You've really got to have a presence there.  Right now we're right in the middle of the Elon Musk experiment with Twitter. Keep an eye on that. It might mean that if Twitter has been a key focus for you, you might have to switch. LinkedIn's always going to be critical for any law firm.  Think about how you can encourage your attorneys to not only network which is critical but also share the content that you're creating. As you know, LinkedIn favors individual posts and individual interaction. Enable your attorneys by sharing content that they can share on the platform, make it easy for them to do so in as much of an authentic way as possible. Then keep learning about the softer things that we talked about. Diversity and culture and all of those things are going to continue to be trends. All the social upheaval that we went through in the last few years. All of the Me Too stuff, that's not going away. It's going to continue to shape perceptions and reputations. [00:25:12] Kevin: I also think with Twitter, a lot of firms do use Twitter. I think it is worth watching right now and see where it ends up. There's a lot of concern around it. Last Friday was supposed to be the end of Twitter and it's still up as far as I know. It might not still be up now when people are listening to this podcast but as of right now it is up. I think there's also some other platforms emerging like Mastodon which seems a bit tricky and you have to you be a little tech-savvy to know how to use it just yet but I think it's always important to see what's going on. Then also make sure you keep tabs of what's going on and where people are going because if Mastodon hits then people are going to be on Mastodon. You have to follow the pack but follow the pack in a way that makes sense for law firms. LinkedIn is still the granddaddy of where to be for law firms. I agree with you. I think you really need to as much as possible encourage people to engage with your page content, share it, provide thoughtful commentary. LinkedIn really rewards that. It's becoming a bit of like the Business Facebook. The more personal and human and additive can be in terms of information, I think it's better. Just encouraging that. It is hard but I think you also focus on folks who are actually going to do it. There's going to be a lot of people who for whatever reason do not want to engage on social media or LinkedIn. It's just not part of their thing. It's not what they want to do, so focus on the people who actually do it and are doing it well and then they can even more easily integrate it. Also to your point of continuing with what works, I think 2023 would be a really bad time to make any really abrupt changes. Like don't do anything abrupt. Make sure that you're just continuing on, don't change for change’s sake. I think there's a real danger in times like this to try everything and change and whatever and that's not the best, I don't think. Stick with what's worked, make adjustments as needed but maybe reach out to a few more lawyers to add to the input call rotation. Start looking at those older associates and younger partners as people you want to start to cultivate and have them start doing— Like, the older associates can write by-lined articles. The younger partners can start doing interviews and start building that pipeline. I think, too, really put effort into building up the next generation, particularly with IT diversity. Make sure that the people you're offering to media, that you are working with shows the diversity of the firm, and demonstrate that. I think that's a really important right now I think and it's always important to bring up the younger folks. I always say, too, like when lawyers or associates they're expected to disappear and do the work and as soon as they are partners, they're expecting a subtle market. They don't know how. Take this time to invest in that. Bring them along and establish a pipeline for all your associates. [00:28:55] Michelle: Yes, it's a really good point about the dichotomy of the expectations at the different levels there. [00:29:01] Kevin: It really does show up at a time when new partners are dealing with so much. They're all of a sudden responsible for so many more things in the firm. Their income is now related to the performance of the firm as a whole rather than just their own performance. Then marketing is added on top of it as if they automatically know how to do it because it was covered in the last year or in year two, and it wasn't. [laughs] [00:29:30] Michelle: Completely, yes. It's interesting. This has been fun. Kevin and I talk all the time about these topics but it's fun to bring our audience into this. That's a wrap on our show today and thank you again for joining me, Kevin. [00:29:46] Kevin: Thanks very much. This was really fun. I hope we can do it again, maybe next year. [music] [00:29:51] Thanks for listening to Spill the Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.

We blinked, and suddenly December was upon us. What even happened in 2022?  To start, the massive federal infrastructure spending bill passed in 2021 meant more projects on the horizon for architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms. Recruitment and retainment became significant priorities for AEC marketing teams, especially amid the Great Resignation. In this episode of Spill the Ink, Michelle Calcote King hands the microphone to a special guest. Steven Gallo serves as the Director of Content and PR at Reputation Ink where he’s in charge of creating brand awareness strategies for the agency’s AEC clients. They reflect on the trends and legislation that shaped AEC marketing in 2022, discuss the growing importance of building a digital brand and reputation, and what marketing departments can do to prepare for a recession and the new year. Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn What trends shaped AEC marketing and public relations in 2022? How did the 2021 Infrastructure Bill influence AEC marketing? What will be AEC firms’ greatest communication challenges in the new year? Why shouldn’t AEC firms cut down on marketing during a recession? What should marketers and AEC firms be doing today to prepare for 2023? About our featured guest Steven Gallo is the Director of Content and PR at Reputation Ink. His communications experience spans the media spectrum, including award-winning work for television, radio and digital platforms. Before entering the PR and content marketing arena, Steven was a broadcast news reporter in Florida and Georgia. Resources mentioned in this episode Follow Reputation Ink on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram Connect with Steven Gallo on LinkedIn Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on Twitter and LinkedIn Sponsor for this episode This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink. Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.  Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services, and more. To learn more visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today. Transcript [00:00:00] Michelle Calcote King: If you don't have that digital presence and that reputation online, it becomes a gap, especially as we look at future generations who are much more digital savvy and we're trying to target those. If you don't have a website that is very easy to navigate, has all that content and anecdotes and details and photography and video that people come to expect you're in a worse place than a competitor would be. [music] [00:00:35] Introduction: Welcome to Spill the Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now, let's get started with the show. [music] [00:00:53] Michelle: Hi, everyone. I'm Michelle Calcote King. I'm your host and I'm also the principal and president of Reputation Ink. We're a public relations and content marketing agency for law firms, architecture, engineering and construction firms, and other professional services firms. To learn more, go to rep-ink, that's ink with a K, .com.  This month we're doing something a little different which is exciting. We're having members of the Reputation Ink team come over and take over our Spill the Ink to interview me instead of our usual format. It's going to be more of a conversation. It’s very special episode of Spill the Ink because I have the opportunity to welcome and hand over the virtual microphone to Steven Gallo, so welcome, Steven. [00:01:35] Steven Gallo: Thank you. [00:01:35] Michelle: Steven serves as the director of content and PR for Reputation Ink. He leads many of our biggest accounts. He's in charge of creating the phenomenal content and public relations strategies that we do for many of our clients in the AEC sector, the architecture, engineering, and construction sector. Before entering the PR and content marketing arena, Steven was a broadcast news reporter in Florida and Georgia, so he applies a unique media-savvy perspective to his client work. Thank you for joining me. [00:02:07] Steven: Yes, thank you. You make me sound so official, I appreciate it. [chuckles] [00:02:12] Michelle: It's exciting. [00:02:13] Steven: It's exciting to be here and cool in this format, so thanks for bringing me in, Michelle. I know somehow the holiday season is already upon us. Before we get, I guess, too ahead of ourselves and jump into the New Year, let's maybe talk about 2022 and the AEC industry. I guess looking back over this past year, what are some of the factors that, from your perspective, really shaped AEC marketing and PR? [00:02:41] Michelle: We've been working in the AEC sector since we were founded 11 years ago. I would say the number one trend that I'm seeing is the labor shortage and how really recruiting is becoming a top priority for marketing. Every AEC firm owner that I speak to, that's their challenge. The work is there, so they can secure the projects, funding is great. There's a lot of government funding happening, but also the private sector is building, but really, it's finding the people to build these projects.  Coming off of COVID, we've got just such a disruption in the market and the industry was already facing a labor shortage. Really, much of marketing's role is becoming how to communicate a brand that people want to work for — differentiating. Because every other firm is out there hiring and competing for the same people. Really communicating what a company is about, why work for them, what kind of career you can expect. It's a real melding of those disciplines and I know our team is working really closely with HR departments to help them on those initiatives. [00:04:04] Steven: Yes, and to your point too, attrition in the industry, this changing of the guard almost that we've been seeing happening in the past few years and looking ahead, there's this need for that worker. I know that that's a big part of it now even for maybe traditionally, not as much from a marketing standpoint but marketing being a great place to work now it seems more important than ever, at least in this industry. [00:04:25] Michelle: Yes, absolutely. Then other trends I'm seeing is when I first started this company 11 years ago and before when I was working at other agencies, you would talk to people in more conservative industries like AEC and there was a sense that we're exempt from needing to do that kind of marketing. That doesn't apply to us and that's changing. I'm having clients come to me and say, "We need to do thought leadership," or, "We need to do some niche focusing in on a certain industry."  It's really interesting to see that transition from, "No, we don't need to do that. We're all about in-person, relationship building,” to realizing that building a brand online and developing a brand and a reputation for having expertise in certain niche areas is incredibly important to building their business. That's a shift that's been slowly happening, but I'm really feeling it moreso now with client requests. It's less me explaining why you need to write an article for a trade publication to them saying, "We really need to write an article for X and X publication," and me thinking, "Wow, that's great that they're coming up to us with that." [00:05:49] Steven: Yes, a paradigm shift happening. I think realizing that construction, architecture, engineers, we're not immune necessarily to these changes and it's just as important. [00:05:59] Michelle: Right. What I often show is how they're right, it is a relationship business, but relationships are formed in very different ways nowadays. People spend a lot of time online educating themselves and connecting with people. While we're certainly, thankfully, we're in a different place than we were just last year or two years ago where we are going to meetings and seeing people in person, it's very important to make sure that your website is an incredibly robust website. You're telling the stories about your projects, you're regularly telling stories about what it's like to work there, you're sharing updates about milestones on projects, that kind of thing. Because if you don't have that digital presence and that reputation online, it becomes a gap. Especially as we look at future generations who are much more digital savvy and we're trying to target those. If you don't have a website that is very easy to navigate, has all that content and anecdotes and details and photography and video that people come to expect, you are in a worse place than a competitor would be. [00:07:22] Steven: Yes, that's a great point. You mentioned, despite the fact that we're looking a bit more like pre-COVID in terms of day-to-day life, but a lot of those same remote work habits and that hybrid model. We're in a different world now that there's some things that feels like that can't be put back in that box and we're seeing that now. [00:07:45] Michelle: Yes, well, we have a very large, what we thought was a more conservative client that right out of the gate when COVID hit, said, "You know what? This work-from-home thing is actually working for us," and has let employees really continue working from home in a very flexible format that I don't think I would've ever expected, especially in this industry. We have other AEC clients that are like, "No, you absolutely have to get back to the office." That's a culture thing. This is a tangible industry that's working on projects, so it makes sense that it can't be fully remote, but a lot of those habits remain. The fact that you can accomplish multiple meetings with multiple different audiences in one day over Zoom versus spending a whole day out just for one meeting is still happening. They're realizing that they really have to upgrade their digital presence to reflect that environment. [00:08:50] Steven: Yes, definitely. Speaking of clients of ours, as you mentioned, I've had a pleasure to work with a lot of these AEC clients for a number of years now at the agency. If there's one thing I've learned about that sector and the smart people that work in it is that there's always something new to learn, there's always something going on. I guess I'm curious, as we're reflecting back on 2022, any surprises, learnings, takeaways that the clients have seen this year? What have you been hearing? [00:09:19] Michelle: I think for me what I'm seeing is there's a realization that marketing does not equal proposals. For the longest time in this industry, if a company had an in-house marketing person or team, that person was really just doing proposals. They weren't doing the brand-building work that we do, the telling stories on social media, telling stories through PR, through engaging with the media and publishing articles, and getting news out about projects. They're realizing that, yes, proposals are always going to be important, but there's this whole other realm of activities that we have to do to have that brand presence. Just the importance of that online brand. It's funny to be in 2022 talking about social media and that people are realizing it's important, but it really is true to see how, especially these AEC owners are older many of them. These are people that didn't grow up with social media and seeing them really understand that they have to be very active on platforms like LinkedIn and have to engage there, that that's where people are and that's where they're learning about people. I just got off a prospect call with a construction company owner and I asked him where he heard of us and he said, LinkedIn. They're on there and they're starting to really engage in those platforms, especially as they realize that recruiting is such an important focus and that they're trying to recruit these more younger people. That the importance of social media can't be understated. [00:11:09] Steven: Exactly, right, especially in that recruiting conversation now, it definitely can't be ignored because that's a pain point. Everyone's feeling it seems. Something I've noticed as well— We're helping a client go through a big milestone year and brand changes and it's this understanding as an AEC firm that having a brand now, I need to be thinking about that. Maybe at least compared to historically, it was really all about, "Hey, here's who we are." I guess, what does that look like for AEC firms and why does it matter? [00:11:44] Michelle: I know the example you're thinking of there, but I think the whole industry is feeling it is that there's this shift in delivery methods. Especially for clients that do a lot of government work, it used to be a hard bid environment. There was a good argument for the fact that marketing didn't really make an impact there when we're really just it's the lowest price wins. As government agencies and certainly the private sector shift toward a design-build model where they can factor in other things other than price, that's when a brand really does play a big role. That's a shift for the industry overall, the shift toward the design-build model, and with it, more AEC companies are going to realize that having a strong reputation, a strong brand will help them secure these projects. [00:12:49] Steven: Absolutely. To pivot a little bit, I know we just got over the hump of midterm elections. Still recovering from the onslaught of campaign ads. I guess all the votes haven't even been counted yet and everyone's already shifting to looking to the next election cycle, so it's always something. The AEC industry is always really keeping tabs on what's going on in Washington one way or the other, but the Infrastructure, Investment, and Jobs Act, that was a big deal when the president signed it a year ago this month, last November. I guess I'm curious, over this past year, have we seen that influence marketing in the industry and in this sector in particular? [00:13:30] Michelle: I think that the firms that specialize in these areas and infrastructure are certainly gearing up for it. They know that this work is coming and they've got to be ready. It goes back to not to beat a dead horse, but recruiting and making sure that they've got the right people to do this work because it is, it's going to be a lot of work. I think the smart companies now are gearing up and thinking about how do we build our brand to attract the right people to be able to deliver that work. It's an exciting time for companies that work in that sector because there's going to be a lot of activity.  I think the challenge will be keeping the momentum going. It's easy to get caught up in all that work that's happening and forget that there are down cycles. You've got to keep your foot on the marketing pedal even during when things are really, really busy. Making sure that they don't ignore it whenever they are fulfilling those contracts is going to be important. [00:14:45] Steven: That's a great point. Just because that was signed doesn't mean that that work is just automatically walk in the door, right? [00:14:51] Michelle: Yes. [00:14:52] Steven: I know some people are wondering, "Okay, well, is 2023 going to be a busy year for the industry?" We don't have a crystal ball, but to your point, regardless of what you might be anticipating in terms of investment and the effort putting into marketing and PR efforts, it's just not the time to slow down at least. Is that fair to say? [00:15:15] Michelle: It's an interesting thing— Unfortunately, I've been in this business long enough to where I've gone through many, many cycles of people predicting a recession, and there's always talk about marketing being the first thing that goes during a recession, but the way marketing works right now, you can't stop it. Certainly, you could pull back on some expenditures, absolutely, but especially on a B2B side of things, you've got to be keeping your CRM system up to date. You have to be regularly announcing and talking about projects. You have to be keeping your project descriptions and case studies up to date. You have to show activity. You have to be building that brand. Maybe you pull back on some more of the nice-to-haves or campaigns trying to get into new markets, but other than that, if you pull back on those when you're in a much worse place, when you're ready to spend the money again and really you're going to end up spending more money than needed. You're really damaging your brand in the long run because there's just so much catch up that you'll have to do. I liken it to you're regularly telling the story of your business, and if you just stop telling that story, especially in the online world, it can create a lot of negative associations with your brand that you don't want to happen. Pushing that pedal and moving forward is the right thing to do in a recession, if it hits. Certain construction sectors tend to be pretty recession-proof. I certainly don't think our infrastructure clients are going to feel any pullback. That's really the lesson. I know it sounds self-serving coming from a marketer, but it's the truth. Marketing's not one of those things that you want to start when you need it because it takes so long, it's a long-term game. You can't say, "Oh, I suddenly need business, let's do this." You might not see the results of your marketing efforts for a year, so you can't wait until you need it to start it. [00:17:34] Steven: To your point, if you're not telling your story regularly, that gap, that silence also speaks in its own right. It's also an opportunity for other folks to tell your story indirectly or not if you're not the one doing it. [00:17:50] Michelle: Right. Yes, absolutely. [00:17:52] Steven: No, I love that.  You did your fair share of traveling this year, business and pleasure, but a lot of that I know is attending and speaking at various industry conferences and events, as you usually do. I know those can oftentimes, especially now folks coming back together in person and networking, it could be a place where you get a lot of ideas and see maybe what's new, what's next. I'm curious, anything you picked up along the way that AEC leaders should keep top of mind? What are the most valuable insights? [00:18:23] Michelle: I went to a conference where culture was the focus, and I thought that was really interesting. Again, more conservative industries talking about things that you wouldn't anticipate them talking about. I can see how culture is an important topic for AEC. Again, going back to the recruiting, how do you differentiate your workplace from another workplace? Culture really is that. Marketers, when you think about a lot of the conference I was talking about, how does marketing impact culture? I think marketing is tasked with, one, not only helping to define what that is but communicating that culture. Culture's often set from the top down, but marketing's role is really how do we communicate and showcase what that culture is? Certainly, internal communications can help that. Especially AEC, companies they have a workforce that's highly distributed. You've got field employees who aren't glued to a computer screen like us office people, so it becomes a challenge to communicate to those audiences, and that's a really important factor in retaining your workforce. The other thing I think we've noticed too is companies being more willing to, in this competitive labor market, being more willing to showcase their employees online. I'm sure we both remember years ago when we'd say, "Oh, let's put this employee up for an award," or we'd suggest these things and we get, "We don't want anyone tapping in and stealing our employees." There's a realization that that cat is out of the bag. LinkedIn exists, and really, by showcasing your employees, one, you're making them feel great about themselves. It's a way of giving them feedback and showing that you're proud of them. Two, it helps show other people looking from the outside the kind of people that work here and the way this company treats their employees, which is to showcase them and to talk about how great they are. In the digital environment, people want to see other people. You don't want to be this faceless brand. The more companies can showcase their people on social and on their website and put them up for rewards, the more people associate you with actual human beings, which is what really people relate to and want to do business with. [00:21:01] Steven: That's a great point. I know sometimes I've heard workplace culture is so much bigger than just marketing, it's really a team effort. I think to a degree, that is true, it goes beyond just marketing, but I've also heard folks say, "Oh, this is such a great place to work. We have such a great family-oriented culture," but you're talking about telling that story. That may be true, but if no one knows that, then how far is that really going to take you, especially in that recruiting conversation? [00:21:33] Michelle: Exactly. [00:21:34] Steven: That's a great point.  I guess 2023, it's here, it's upon us. Looking ahead and gearing up for the New Year resolutions, all that good stuff, what's one thing, or maybe a couple of things that in-house marketers that AEC firms should be doing right now to prepare for 2023? [00:21:56] Michelle: If I were in-house at an AEC company, I would be looking at ways to streamline all the many collateral needs that an AEC firm needs any time. After working with in-house marketers for so long, I know that they can get just pulled into this endless cycle of churning out materials, so project descriptions, team resumes, qualifications packages, proposals. As I've worked more in this industry, I've found providers that have found ways to really stream like that.  I just did a podcast interview with a gentleman who runs a company called NK Interactive and they've really developed a proprietary system. They call it a single Source of Truth, where all information is held in one place, but it can be repurposed very quickly and easily. Anytime they update a project on the website, they can pull a project one sheet or all those images are there, the video is in that one spot. It's really thought out to meet the needs of AEC because I know that AEC marketers end up becoming InDesign graphics specialists who never went to school to be an InDesign designer. That's because these AEC firms are having to constantly submit proposals and qualification packages and they need details on projects. It's very hard to keep track. If you don't have a CRM system built for AEC, I would be getting one now. You'd be surprised at the amount of really large companies that don't, that none of that information is collected and in one place. It really slows down and makes marketing very inefficient. Thinking through that process, even though it takes a while to really think through, "How am I going to collect all this project information and this team information and get it in one place and have a process for updating it?” It's incredibly important and will make their life a lot better. That would be the number one thing I would do. [00:24:07] Steven: That is great advice, Michelle and I know there's probably numerous things, but that one is a big one, especially if you're looking at budget planning and whatnot. To your point, being organized and having those things lined up and ready to go is going to make the whole process throughout the year a lot more efficient, whether you're working with an in-house team or an agency that's outside the company. I appreciate you sharing those insights and a little bit about what you've been seeing and what we're looking forward to. [00:24:34] Michelle: Yes, it was fun to have you on as my interviewer. I'll do our normal wrap-up. That's a wrap for our show today and thank you for joining me and for coming on Spill The Ink. [00:24:47] Steven: Of course. Thanks so much, Michelle. Take care. [music] [00:24:52] Closing: Thanks for listening to Spill The Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes. [music]

An architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firm’s website is its most valuable marketing asset — but its utility can be stretched even further with the right approach. Your website can be transformed into a state-of-the-art tool that both empowers B2B buyers to make decisions based on your portfolio and creates automated efficiencies for your business. Scott Jacques is the founder of NK Interactive, a digital agency that designs websites and custom digital tools that solve complex sales and marketing problems for clients in the commercial construction sector. His team transforms client websites using a “single source of truth” approach to streamline internal data management while showcasing robust project portfolios. In this episode of Spill the Ink, Michelle Calcote King and Scott Jacques discuss best practices and considerations for website design in the AEC sector, how firms can build functionality into their websites to meet a range of needs, website development and design trends influencing B2B buyers, and more. Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn What are the unique website needs of an AEC firm? How important is web presence to AEC buyers? What information and content should be included on your website? What is the “single source of truth” approach? How can AEC firms integrate digital tools into their websites to facilitate firm-wide content management? What website development and design trends are influencing the AEC sector? How often should a firm update its websites? About our featured guest Scott is the Founder and Principal of NK Interactive, a San Francisco-based digital consultancy with decades of strategic, creative and technical expertise. Their clients are forward-thinking businesses in the commercial construction sector consisting of general contractors and specialty contractors. A representative sampling of past and present clients include Rosendin Electric, W.E. O’Neil Construction, DPR Construction, Level 10 Construction, Build Group, Cupertino Electric (CEI), Nibbi Brothers, BCCI Builders, XL Construction, ISEC Inc., and the Associated General Contractors of California. Typical client engagements cover the range of transformative websites to the design and development of custom digital tools supporting marketing and business development teams (collateral automation, single source of truth repository for projects and resumes, qualifications/proposal builders, and capabilities presentation builders). Resources mentioned in this episode Check out NK Interactive Follow NK Interactive on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram Connect with Scott Jacques on LinkedIn Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on Twitter and LinkedIn Sponsor for this episode This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink. Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.  Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more. To learn more visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today.

Many lawyers spend a lifetime building their legal practices into thriving businesses with an abundance of clients. While your day-to-day grind is vital to sustaining operations, it’s also essential to have a strong strategic plan in place to secure your law firm’s future. Your firm’s strategic plan is the blueprint not only for when challenges and crises arise, but it’s also the roadmap attorneys are referencing for guidance on how to succeed and grow in the firm. How should attorneys approach the strategic planning process for the best results? In this episode of Spill the Ink, Michelle Calcote King interviews Wendy Merrill, the Director of Strategic Consulting at Affinity Consulting Group. Wendy shares her experience working with law firms to develop strategic plans in the post-pandemic world, insight into what areas firms should prioritize during their strategic planning process, and what she sees attorneys commonly do wrong. They also discuss how technology can help — or hurt — a firm’s ability to adapt to challenges. Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn Why should law firms care about strategic planning, regardless of their size? What factors and market forces are shaping priorities during strategic planning? How can law firms address employee retention during the strategic planning process? What common mistakes should firms avoid throughout the strategic planning process? How is technology impacting firms and what role does it play in strategic planning discussions? How does having a strategic business plan help firms when crisis strikes? About our featured guest Over the last 10 years, Wendy Merrill has helped thousands of attorneys and their firms to dramatically improve their origination and realization rates, practice management, business development and leadership skills. As Affinity Consulting’s Director of Strategic Consulting, Wendy helps law firms with strategic planning, executive retreat facilitation, growth strategy, marketing planning, partner development, succession planning, and best practices for improving profitability.  Prior to joining the Affinity team, Wendy served as part of a turnaround executive team at DRI (the largest civil defense bar association) facilitating the refresh of the 62-year-old organization. As part of her commitment to facilitating necessary change in the legal space, Wendy authored her first book, Path to Impact: The Rising Leaders’ Guide to Growing Smart, in 2019. Her favorite part of her role is helping professionals recognize and quantify their value, and to think and do bigger. Wendy lives in Monkton, Maryland, with her husband, three children, two dogs, and her retired racehorse. Resources mentioned in this episode Check out Affinity Consulting Group Follow Affinity Consulting Group on Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn Connect with Wendy Merrill on LinkedIn Read Path to Impact: The Rising Leaders’ Guide to Growing Smart Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on Twitter and LinkedIn Sponsor for this episode This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink. Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.  Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more. To learn more visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today. Transcript Wendy Merrill [00:00] Even if you’re really busy and you’ve got a lot of pressure on you to bill, carve time out and look at your business development. And you have to understand that while you may bill $400 an hour to a client, your business development is actually worth exponentially more. It’s not a waste of time just because you can’t bill it to a client. You’ve got to carve it out and you have to commit to it. [MUSIC AND INTRODUCTION] [00:22] Michelle Calcote King [00:43] Hi everyone! I’m Michelle Calcote King, your host, and the Principal and President of Reputation Ink. We’re a public relations and content marketing agency for law firms and professional services firms. To learn more about us go to www.rep-ink.com.  As a business owner, you’re constantly eyeing growth opportunities and thinking through what you can do best to position your business for success. Well — like it or not — a law firm is a business and if you don’t have a clear vision for the future with measurable markers of success, you’re essentially just treading water. The strategic planning process is a crucial component to securing your practice. But, how should you go about it? To talk about this topic, I’ve invited Wendy Merrill to be on today’s episode. Wendy is the Director of Strategic Consulting for Affinity Consulting Group where she helps law firms with strategic planning for growth and improving profitability. She’s a published author, and a seasoned business developer and marketer. I’m really excited to have you on the show! Welcome! Wendy Merrill [1:45] Hey! Great to see you. Michelle Calcote King [1:47] Wendy and I know each other well. I gave that very brief intro but if you wouldn’t mind giving us a little bit more about your background. Tell us about your book and your services at Affinity. Wendy Merrill [2:01] Sure. So many questions; so many things to talk about. I have been, I’d say, immersed in the legal space for over 12 years as a business development strategist, growth strategist; and also helping firms with their retention needs, their professional development needs, and all sorts of really fun and exciting things. Helping law firms think more like businesses, which I love to do. A couple of years ago, I wrote a book that was specifically written for rising leaders. So, those that are a little bit newer, a little bit younger, in the professional services space — especially law firms — who have aspirations to be impactful, really want to make a difference, want to take on leadership positions, and want to grow their firms but aren't really sure how to start. So that's what it was designed for. So that's called Path to Impact: The Rising Leaders’ Guide to Growing Smart.  Michelle Calcote King [3:07] Awesome. Let’s talk about strategic planning. Why should firms care about it, regardless of whether they’re small or large? Tell me about that. Wendy Merrill [3:17] I want to put it in the post-COVID perspective. I think that’s probably most relevant now because COVID, you know, it continues. We’d like to think we’re in post-COVID, but it’s been terrible. But, there have been a few silver linings, dare I say. I think one of the silver linings for the legal industry in particular is it forced law firms to start thinking about their business model and thinking strategically about where they want to go. When the pandemic happened, pretty much overnight, suddenly firms were faced with the fact that maybe their technology support was not where it needed to be; they didn’t have enough laptops to allow for remote work, for example; they were faced with having to figure out a whole new culture. How are they going to service clients? How are they going to retain good people? All sorts of things. What I have found is the last couple of years, law firms are really starting to think about, “Well, why don’t we really be more strategic about how we grow? Why don’t we think a little bit more analytically about what does growth mean for us? What kind of clients do we want? What kind of practice areas do we want to specialize in? How do we want to grow our team? What kind of people are our future leaders? And set up goals, objectives, KPIs?” Things that are kind of new to the legal space; things that businesses have been doing for years and now law firms are doing. Michelle Calcote King [4:48] Yeah. There are a lot of market forces. Obviously, you mentioned COVID, but there are other market forces that are really pushing law firms to change old ways. There are ALSPs, client demands and that kind of things. Are you seeing that that’s top of mind for many firms? Wendy Merrill [5:09] You know what’s top of mind? People. Holding on to people. Michelle Calcote King [5:16] Oh, interesting. Wendy Merrill [5:17] There are certainly pressures like you said, the non-lawyer-owned legal services provider. Certainly mergers of larger firms and pricing pressures. All sorts of things. Michelle Calcote King [5:32] It’s an interesting point you make about people because we read about it and there’s all the news about the “Great Recession.” tell me what you’re hearing from firms about that. Wendy Merrill [5:42] As I mentioned, people has become the biggest focus for law firms in that certainly the great resignation affects them; this quiet quitting — which is a really strange concept. They can't really take it for granted anymore that they’re going to have people to do all the work. For example, most of the law firms I’ve spoke to in the last couple of years had an influx of business. They were very profitable and did very well, but their biggest problem is they have more work than they can handle because they are struggling with retaining associates for a number of reasons. They’re also struggling to hire lateral hires. The goal of every firm is to bring over attorneys with experience that have a nice book of business they can meld into their firm.  It’s been a big struggle for firms and it’s been, I think, sometimes a distraction from, “Okay, how do we go out and get more clients? Well, we’re not really thinking about that. We’re really more worried about how are we going to service the clients we have?” So it’s not just employee retention. It’s also client retention. Michelle Calcote King [6:55] In the strategic planning process, how can firms address the people factor? How do they go about that in doing their strategic planning? Wendy Merrill [7:07] A couple of keywords come to mind: trust, transparency and transition.  Trust is the most important thing. If a firm is really serious about thinking about how they want to grow, and thinking very strategically about putting one foot in front of the other, they have to make sure that everyone trusts each other. There has to be very deep trust among the partners, which sometimes can be a struggle. There also has to be trust among the associates, the non-partner lawyers who are looking to the partners to be leaders in the firm. They have to make sure they have their best interests in mind. Also staff. I mean, they make the magic happen. There are a lot of administrative folks that sometimes struggle with trusting the direction that the organization is going in; that the lawyers really are going to appreciate the work that they do, and vice versa. So trust is really important. Transparency, as I mentioned, is something that has not always been a theme in law firms. I would say that the legal business has probably not been known as one of the most transparent industries. But that is changing. The reason for that is because the younger generation, the next gen wants to know what’s going on. Not only do they want to know what’s going on, but if law firms really want their people to be engaged and buy in to what they do, understand profitability and contribute to the firm, they need to understand how the sausage is made. They need to understand, how do we make money? How do we do things? Many lawyers really just don’t know. They’re very focused on what they need to do on a day-to-day basis, which doesn’t exactly support the cause, if you will, and really helping the whole firm work together in lockstep towards a common goal. The third keyword is transition. Talking really about succession planning. That is a big, big, big, big challenge I think in a lot of businesses, but I just happen to see it a lot in the legal space. Many firms intellectually understand that they need to think about it, but it’s very emotional, Michelle. Very, very emotional because for so many people who have built these firms, it’s their baby. They’ve been doing this forever. It’s their identity and the thought of having to step away from that is scary to a lot of folks, quite frankly. You know, “Well what am I going to do next? What does my next chapter look like?” And it’s also scary because when you retire there’s a finite amount of money that will come in. So, it’s not like, “Oh, well, I’ll just keep earning in perpetuity.” So, those are two roadblocks I think sometimes to the succession process. But, succession planning is so important not only for the future growth of the firm, but also for the security for the rest of the firm. Meaning the other lawyers and staff who want to know what it’s going to be. They want to know what’s going t happen and they want to know what their future looks like. They need to understand what kind of upcoming transition there might be, what it looks like, what leadership change, etcetera. Michelle Calcote King [10:28]  I've always found that fascinating about the legal industry how so many lawyers really work for a much longer time than I see in other professions. Wendy Merrill [10:40] I mean there’s the old saying that someone’s going to die at their desk. It sounds kind of funny and kind of morbid at the same time, but it’s true. It’s the kind of profession  that you can and you can. You can hold on to a few clients and do work at the end of the day, which is fine. But that person really shouldn’t be leading the firm. They should perhaps move into an off-council position or something like that where they can still contribute but they relinquish a lot of their decision-making and control to the next generation. Michelle Calcote King [11:11] What are some of the ways you see law firms getting strategic planning wrong? What are some common mistakes that firms are making? Wendy Merrill [11:23] I think the biggest mistake — and it’s not just law firms, it’s a lot of businesses that engage in the process — is they focus more on the plan, not the process. They will invest a lot of time and energy and money and emotion into going through the strategic planning process. They get a document that’s like yay thick, it goes on the shelf and then that’s it. It happens a lot. So we focus a lot more on the process itself. So, it’s not just about the plan, but how is it a living document? What are strategic objectives? Who is bought in? How do we all work together? And how do we assign tasks and action steps and dates and make sure that the implementation is happening? And that we’re maintaining momentum? It’s very difficult because you’re working with firms where time is of the essence. Let’s just say, time management is probably a struggle for all of us, but also especially for lawyers. Especially for lawyers, when they’re so busy — especially litigators — if they’re so busy and they’re pulled in a million different directions, it’s really hard to commit the time and energy to, “Okay, let’s take the next steps. Let’s move this along.” so, a lot of our clients when they express interest in strategic planning, we want to find out, “Well, how committed are you? Are you serious about the process? Here’s what’s going to be involved.” Then afterward, we try to stay involved to make sure that we’re pushing the ball along in any way that we can to make sure that we are focusing on measurable results. Michelle Calcote King [13:00] Yeah, I could see how that would be a huge part of it because it’s easy to get lost in the day-to-day of just delivering client services and keeping that deadline. We know law firms and the law, in general, is more conservative and slower to adapt to change. How are you seeing how technology is impacting firms? Does it play a role in this strategy discussion? Wendy Merrill [13:35] It definitely does. At Affinity, we do a lot of technology consulting as well and focus on improving processes and systems. Many firms will come to us and say that their people are frustrated for whatever reason. They don’t like the systems they have or they don’t know how to use them. Sometimes it’s the system, but other times it’s the people. What I mean by that is they’re just not properly training, they’re not properly engaged and they don’t understand the capabilities of the particular technology they have, or for whatever reason, they’re just not interested in it. So, it absolutely affects this whole process. I mean, there are people who will be so frustrated and have such low job satisfaction because maybe their impression is that the systems aren’t there, the technology is not there, so they move to another firm where they feel like their needs are better served. But, oftentimes it’s just a matter of understanding what you have. These days you can automate so many processes, but many firms are still relying on kind of like a hodgepodge approach to technology. They’ll have a piece of software over here and a system over there and they’re not talking to each other. So, it requires a lot more steps that aren’t necessarily ones that they need to take.  Technology can be friend or foe, right? I mean these days it’s absolutely essential that you have a really streamlined system, and you know what you’re doing, and you’re able to use it, and everybody’s engaged. But at the same time, it can be really frustrating. I personally use technology all the time and I don’t consider myself a tech person. I get frustrated and I tend towards old-fashioned ways. Sometimes I’ll use it but maybe I don’t use it the best way I should. Fortunately, I get a lot of great training from my company to learn how to improve myself, but that’s not always the case in firms. I think it’s really important. Technology is just a huge component to this whole process because it’s one of the engines to progress. Michelle Calcote King [15:36] Well and it needs to be implemented strategically. I remember someone in the industry telling me — and it wasn’t a law firm they were talking about; they were talking about another small consulting firm — and they said it was always the shiniest new platform and there was almost fatigue of the employees hearing what’s the newest thing they had to learn and figure out. That was fascinating to me because I’ve always seen the opposite where leadership is sluggish to adopt something. But it can be either way. Wendy Merrill [16:10 It can. Also it comes down to the same thing for both it’s if people are not engaged in owning their role and understanding why are we using this system or why did we hire this person, if they don’t understand that, it’s hard for them to understand their role and how important their role is in the overall success of the firm. Michelle Calcote King [16:36] Yeah. How do you see strategic planning and having that plan — and hopefully it isn’t just sitting on the shelf — but having that strategic plan when a crisis hits? We’ve all been through COVID now but I know there are other crises. How have you seen firms weather a crisis or not weather it very well because of having or lack of having a strategic plan? Wendy Merrill [17:06] I’m going to answer that question in sort of a sideways fashion, I suppose. Because of COVID, once upon a time, I think many businesses would say, “Well, what’s the one-year plan? The three-year plan? The five-year plan? The 10 and 20 year plan?” These days I say one to three. We don’t look beyond that because we all know things change. It’s good to say, “Well long term I’d like to do this.” But we also know that we have to be nimble. We have to be prepared for anything to happen and have a backup plan. I think what I’ve seen with firms is, certainly, they’ve invested a lot more in technology, they’ve invested in cloud technology, getting servers out of their offices, which is risky. Also thinking about a creative approach to the workspace because if something happens, like a pandemic or any crisis, if they have a huge lease on a huge office space and something happens, they’re stuck. So many firms are starting to think about what’s a flexible option. Doing hotelling or figuring out if they even need to be in an office. I think that it’s affected the way people are planning for the future. We’re all aware, but i think it’s human nature to sort of say, “Well, let’s just kind of stay in our comfort zone.” And I don’t know how much crisis planning law firms can really do other than what they’re doing right now. I do think it’s also really important to focus on culture. If you don’t have a really strong culture and something happens, your firm will have a very difficult time weathering the crisis. Culture is a newer phenomenon, I think, in terms of thinking of it as this sort of entity. Like, we have to be intentional about it. What is our culture? What is our brand? What do we stand for? Why do we do what we do? How do we care for our people? How do we engage them? That is absolutely vital to the success of any firm and I would say weathering any crisis that may come their way. Michelle Calcote King [19:22] Agreed. It’s interesting because the Legal Marketing Association’s Southeastern Conference, their whole theme is culture this year. I’m looking forward to that. I think especially for on the marketing side, often marketers kind of get thrown these things, you know, if the firm is big enough to have a marketer in-house. They get thrown anything to do this kind of stuff. I think it’s going to be a fascinating discussion. Wendy Merrill [19:51] I’m really happy to hear that they’re doing that because I personally believe that marketing should have the responsibility of being stewards of the culture. And I don’t think a lot of firms properly utilize and really take advantage of the knowledge that their marketing professionals have in creating this culture because it’s really branding. I mean, it’s really the same kind of thing. I’ve also always wondered why HR departments and marketing departments don’t sit next to each other and work together because it’s kind of the same thing. Michelle Calcote King [20:27] It’s becoming one in of the same, absolutely. Well, as recruiting gets more difficult and retention, right? This is how people, you know, through marketing is how they learn what kind of firm this is. Absolutely. So, you have answered this already, but I want to ask it. How do you know if a strategic plan is sort of strong, but also nimble enough to evolve? You mentioned, “Look let’s look one to three years.” Are there other ways to know that, “Look we have a strategic plan, but we’re still going to evolve and react to market changes”? Wendy Merrill [21:08] I think you have to build that in. When you’re talking about the planning process, you have your goals and you have your strategic objectives. Strategic objectives should be broad enough that you can apply it to different things that may come your way. It may be something like, “We want to become the go-to firm in this particular practice area.” Okay. Well, there are a lot of ways you can do that. Maybe you try spending a lot of money on digital marketing. And maybe it doesn’t go so well. Okay, well, let’s go to Plan B. What else can we do? I encourage firms to think about — there are a lot of ways to skin a cat, right? — so, I think that if you have a really strong foundation where you have buy-in from all of the stakeholders, and they all agree, they’re all aligned in what they want and their values, that’s the most important thing because if they’re faced with a crisis or they’re faced with something going sideways or it’s not going as well, everybody should be able to come back up together and say, “Okay, let’s regroup. Remember what we talked about before; remember what's really important to us. This particular tactic isn't working. Let's shift to something else.” So, like anything else, it really comes down to the trust that people have with each other within these firms and making sure that they’re constantly aligned. And by the way, Michelle, that’s not a one-time thing. It’s something that you have to keep reconnecting and reiterating. You have the strategic planning process and you go through this; many firms will have a once-a-year retreat. That’s great, but what’s keeping people connected throughout the year? That’s absolutely imperative. Michelle Calcote King [23:06] How do you help firms do that? How do you help them kind of stay connected to their strategy? Wendy Merrill [23:14] It depends on the firm. I like to definitely set up some kind of a structure. For example, I recently worked with a law firm that was having — I can’t remember how often they were meeting as partners; maybe quarterly; maybe twice a year. They had so many changes going on, I said, “You all really should be meeting monthly.” So, we had a retreat and it was hugely successful. Everyone was thrilled to come together and share. I said, “Okay we have to keep this momentum going.” So, one of the things that we’re doing is we’re having monthly partner meetings. Everybody’s going to come together. One month you’re together in perso and the other month you’re virtual. To make it easier, here’s the agenda you’re going to follow every single month. It’s going to be a revolving facilitator, so somebody gets assigned each particular month and make sure they’re on task, and then there’s going to be follow-up. And it's worked really, really, really well. It's made a huge difference for this particular firm.  Where we try to help is — I mean, certainly you can lead a horse to water, right? But, we try to share ideas about, “Okay, well, here’s some structure you can put to this; and if you lay it out and it makes sense to people.” Also it’s helpful when you’re in the room with them and you whip out the calendar and you say, “Okay, so let’s get it done.” It really makes a difference. Michelle Calcote King [24:32] That’s great. What else haven’t I asked you that you think law firms need to be thinking about from a strategic planning process? Is there anything that we haven’t touched on? Wendy Merrill [24:45] We can talk about growth strategy and business development. Many, many firms that I mentioned earlier are very fortunate and have a ton of work right now. So, when we’re all really busy and things are good and we’ve got a lot of clients, we go, “Oh, we don’t have to market. We don’t have to go out and shake hands and kiss babies.” But I cannot underline this enough. When you’re really busy is exactly when you need to be investing because the other shoe always drops. This recession that keeps kind of coming up, you don’t know what’s going to happen. And, it’s going to sound silly, but when you’re busy and you’re successful, you exude confidence and positivity and people want to work with you. Michelle Calcote King [25:34] Absolutely. Wendy Merrill [25:35] When you’re not busy, you will absolutely look and seem desperate. It’s happened to all of us. As silly as that sounds, it’s true. So, I’d say, even if you’re really busy and you’ve got a lot of pressure on you to bill, carve time out and look at your business development. And you have to understand that while you may bill $400 an hour to a client, your business development is actually worth exponentially more. It’s not a waste of time just because you can’t bill it to a client. You’ve got to carve it out and you have to commit to it. Michelle Calcote King [26:09] Yeah. I could not agree with that more. It’s something that I say often about business development, marketing or long-term initiatives. You can’t just throw a campaign out there and generate business, especially in professional services. Wendy Merrill [26:28] It’s building habits. It’s not just, “Well, let’s do this initiative. Let’s do a PR campaign.” It has to be woven into the very fabric of the firm. It’s building the muscle. It’s saying, “Here’s what we’re going to do.” You just have to build this habit and know that if you’re responsible for origination, business development is just part of what you do on a daily basis, on a weekly basis. It’s just what’s expected of you as an attorney.  I will add one more thing. Defining expectations, which is a really big deal, I think many firms do not have path to partnership. It’s very subjective. Maybe it’s not written down or if it is, it’s still very sort of vague. This is a struggle I’ve seen where younger attorneys want to have a roadmap. They want to know what’s expected of them so that they can measure themselves and that they can aspire to goals. But, it’s also important for the firm to define what is an “ABC” lawyer. What do we expect of our attorneys? What is the approach to billing? What is the approach to client service? What is the approach to culture? Leadership? If it’s not defined, then how can anyone be judged by it? How can anybody be measured? This is something that I also reiterate a lot with the firms they work with.  Michelle Calcote King [27:59] That’s really important. Thank you so much. This was a fantastic overview of the strategic planning process for law firms and I can imagine it’s top of mind with many firms. We’ve been talking to Wendy Merrill of Affinity Consulting. Tell our listeners how to get in touch with you, Wendy. Wendy Merrill [28:18] Sure. My email is wmerrill@affinityconsulting.com. Definitely connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m very, very active on LinkedIn and would love to connect with all of you. Feel free to reach out with a question and an idea. I love to collaborate and I love to learn, so I would be happy to speak to any of your listeners. Michelle Calcote King [28:44] Awesome, thank you so much. Wendy Merrill [28:46] Thank you.

Your law firm’s marketing strategy is tailored to resonate with the types of clients who you want to reach and attract. However, an award-worthy marketing strategy for an American audience can fall short when simply translated verbatim to another language.  Achieving a successful multicultural and/or multilingual campaign requires extra legwork and a different approach to ensure your messaging hits its intended mark. Otherwise, you stand to quickly lose potential clients. In honor of Hispanic Heritage Month, Michelle Calcote King talks with Liel Levy, the co-founder of Nanato Media and award-winning author of Beyond Se Habla Español: How Lawyers Win The Hispanic Market. They discuss best practices for marketing to a Hispanic audience, the common mistakes firms and attorneys make when they’re first starting out, and what lawyers can do to keep these new clients once they have them. Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn Why marketing to Hispanic and Latino clients is different from marketing to a U.S.-born or English-speaking client Why translating messaging verbatim from English to Spanish is an ineffective strategy Hispanic consumer habits Best practices for connecting with potential Hispanic clients Common mistakes law firms make when working with non-native English speakers About our featured guest Liel Levy is the award-winning author of the Amazon bestseller Beyond Se Habla Español: How Lawyers Win The Hispanic Market and co-founder of Nanato Media, an Austin-based marketing agency focused on helping law firms dominate their Hispanic market. He is also the producer and co-host of "In Camera Podcast: Private Legal Marketing Conversations" and has been published by multiple legal publications of note, including Law.com, Law360, Marketing the Law Firm and ABA Journal. Resources mentioned in this episode Check out Nanato Media Follow Nanato Media on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram Read Beyond Se Habla Español: How Lawyers Win The Hispanic Market Connect with Liel Levy on LinkedIn Say hello to Michelle Calcote King on Twitter and LinkedIn WhatsApp Sponsor for this episode This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink. Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.  Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more. To learn more visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today. Transcript Liel Levy [00:00] You want to make sure that you’re digging a little deeper and see what things are important to their culture. What do they value? Is it family? Is it sports? Is it food? And these are just some of the very, very upper layers. You want to dig deeper down there and really showcase things that matter to the community. [MUSIC AND INTRODUCTION] [00:20] Michelle Calcote King [00:40] Hi everyone! I’m Michelle Calcote King, your host, and the Principal and President of Reputation Ink. We’re a public relations and content marketing agency for law firms and professional services firms. To learn more about us go to www.rep-ink.com.  We’re now in Hispanic Heritage Month. It’s a celebration of the histories, cultures and achievements of Hispanics and Latinos. In honor of Hispanic Heritage Month, for this episode, I’m going to talk to an old friend of ours about how law firms can effectively market to their Hispanic population — and also how they can get it wrong. My guest today is Liel Levy. He’s the award-winning author of — and this is going to show how bad my Spanish skills are — Beyond Se Habla Español: How Lawyers Win The Hispanic Market and he’s also the co-founder of Nanato Media, a marketing agency focused on helping law firms dominate their Hispanic market. Liel, welcome and thank you for sitting down to chat today. Liel Levy [01:44] That actually sounded great. That’s really good pronunciation. Thank you so much for having me. It’s a real pleasure to be here and to have an opportunity to chat with you again. Michelle Calcote King  [01:54] To start, tell me a little bit about Nanato Media, what you guys do and why you founded the agency. Liel Levy [02:03] Nanato Media, we’re a multicultural marketing agency. We’re bilingual and our goal is to help particularly law firms because the go-to law firms for their local Hispanic market. How Nanato Media came to exist was basically as a solution to a need that's been there for decades.  Latinos have been part of U.S. culture and society since the beginning of the existence of the nation. Before lawyers, they used to primarily rely on strategies that were run through lead generation companies where they would relegate their marketing efforts for the Hispanic community to other parties that did not necessarily market their own brand — the law firm brand. Many times, it wasn’t really something that they were specialized in. So, obviously, this generated frustration, particularly amongst law firms that deeply care about the community and want to have the same quality of marketing that they have for their English-speaking market for their Spanish-speaking market. For us, it became very clear that there was a massive gap there. And this is what we’d been doing pretty much all of our professional marketing careers. It was a very natural pivot for us to move from doing the marketing from a big lead generation organization that was focused on the Hispanic market to doing it for law firms that are interested in building their own brand — and we’re talking here about consumer-focused law firms. Michelle Calcote King [3:53] Yes. So, we know each other because we worked together to help publicize your book. And it’s not just translating materials to Spanish, right? Tell me a little bit more about how marketing to the Hispanic and Latino population is different. Why does it go beyond translating materials into the Spanish language? Liel Levy [4:25] Sure. Translation as a baseline doesn’t work. The way that you actually create and compose sentences and paragraphs, and organize ideas in one language is not the same as in Spanish. Also, for those who are Spanish speakers, they probably already notice that in Spanish we speak and use more words than we use in English. What happens when you’re using translation as your main method of creating messaging in Spanish is that your message ends up getting lost in translation, literally. So it’s not effective. It doesn’t fulfill the purpose of actually helping you communicate to your audience exactly what you want them to know. Beyond that, it’s ineffective because your message that was created thinking of the English speaker in mind is not necessarily one that’s going to resonate with your Latino speaker. It’s not just about the language being really compatible — the words that you’re using in English being compatible with the Spanish language. It’s more about, is what you’re saying to your English speaker potential client the same that you would want to say to your Latino speaker? You may say, “Well, it is,” but at the end of the day, are you customizing or personalizing these words to be even more relevant to the Latino speaker? Are you actually showing them through the messaging that you are seeing them, that you’re hearing them, and that you care about them? If you’re not, then that’s where you’re missing a big opportunity. Because here’s the thing about being a “minority” — and I say minority in brackets here because Latinos are by no means minorities in markets like Texas and California. Just last week, a new census report showcased that in Texas the Latino population is now the largest demographic group, so more Latinos than white non-Hispanics, and that same milestone was achieved a couple of years ago in California. So, when you’re using the term “minority” for Latinos, in some areas and states — some of the biggest states in the United States — it’s no longer applicable. But, generally speaking, when you’re a minority, the general message of a brand doesn’t necessarily feel that it was created for you. Michelle Calcote King [7:00] Can you give me some examples of those differences? I know by even asking for examples that is sort of pigeonholing it, but can you give me some examples of what some of those differences might be for people? Liel Levy [7:15] Absolutely. Just the idea — especially talking about law firms — when you are putting yourself in the mindset of the Latino, especially the one that is Spanish-speaking, if Spanish is their mother tongue, then chances are that they actually immigrated recently within the last ten or maybe twenty years to the United States. What’s on their mind? What are the concerns that they have? How do they think about things? Where do they live? What do they have access to and do not have access to? When you actually start talking and seeing things from a mindset that they can understand, then you’re going to become more relevant to them. Language is a fantastic way of doing it where you’re targeting an audience that is likely to be Spanish speakers first. But, when you’re looking at U.S.-born Latinos, you want to make sure that you’re digging a little deeper and see what things are important to their culture. What do they value? Is it family? Is it sports? Is it food? And these are just some of the very, very upper layers. You want to dig deeper down there and really showcase things that matter to the community. That’s why we always think that the best marketing you can do for yourself is actually getting involved in the community, doing community outreach. As you’re getting involved in the community, showcase the stories of what’s happening there in the community because nothing will speak better about your brand and your law firm than showcasing the people you’re having an impact on. I think there are tons of examples where we see law firms doing this, and their results are astonishing. Michelle Calcote King [9:06] Wow. That makes a lot of sense. It’s understanding the consumer that you’re targeting, what they care about, their concerns and their needs. Are there differences between the kinds of technology Latinos use or how they search for services like law firms? Are there differences in that as well? Liel Levy [9:31] Yeah. This is already widely known, but for those who may just be discovering the Hispanic market, Latinos are considered mobile power users. What does this mean? That they heavily rely on their mobile devices for all kinds of connectivity. This is for infotainment; they watch and listen to basically everything you would stream traditionally on a TV, but on their mobile devices. Or some of the things you would do on a desktop, they would do on their mobile devices.  There are actually a couple of things here that are important to point out. They really like to search on Google. 93% of Latinos in the U.S. have expressed that Google is their preferred search engine of choice. They go there to find answers when they don’t know the answers to things.  The other thing that is also very interesting about the U.S. Latino consumer is that they're 20% more likely to interact with ads. Whereas you may think that every time that I do complete a search query on Google and I get to the search results page, I skip through the ads because I don’t care about ads. Well, when you’re looking at your Latino consumer, that’s not the case.  Most of the time they actually do pay attention to the ads.  Why is that? Well, it's because there's not a lot of great content on your organic search results in Spanish for potentially what they're searching for, especially if they're searching in Spanish. So, ads tend to be more thoughtful. Not just that, but especially when you’re looking at law firms, it also offers a more viable and faster solution to what they need. The other thing about mobile users is that you’re not going to spend as much time on the device as you would on a desktop. Desktop has a bigger screen and is a different experience; you can spend more time researching, reading reviews and maybe watching videos or doing comparisons. On a mobile device, you’re probably not going to want to read through the long text that is on practice area pages and that sort of thing. You’re also more likely to initiate a conversation, and it will most likely be a phone call faster. Latinos most likely need a fast answer to try to troubleshoot the problem that they’re going through. That’s kind of a lot about Latino consumer behavior there. Michelle Calcote King [12:10] That’s fascinating about the ads, but it makes complete sense that once they get to the organic search results, they’ve learned there’s not a lot there that really resonates because it’s more built for an English-speaking audience. Liel Levy [12:25] What you encounter a lot on the organic search results is — you’d be surprised how many times pages that are not even in Spanish get to rank, even on the first page of search results. But, even the content that is in Spanish oftentimes is not really that great. It’s literal translations of pages that were first created in English. They just have terrible user experience (UX) and user design (UI). To scroll on them is not really pleasant. Ads are a more efficient way of finding quick and fast information about what they’re looking for and allowing them to take the next step in a way that doesn’t require a lot of effort from their end. Michelle Calcote King [13:19] Interesting. Once you’ve captured their attention through the ads, is there anything different about that funnel they’re going through that is different from an English-speaking audience? Do they interact with chat boxes? Is there anything different at that stage of the funnel? Liel Levy [13:37] I love that question because yes, it’s very different. It really is gonna depend a lot on your practice area. We’ve noticed that, for instance, personal injury phone calls will be very popular. However, other types of law, for instance, immigration, the users are going to be more open to having conversations via messaging. I will tell you definitely that your best option to connect with the Hispanic market through text is not through live chat, but it’s actually by enabling business WhatsApp on your website as a way of being able to start conversations with them via text. It’s just from a user-experience standpoint much better. The conversation opens up on your WhatsApp app, right? And there are two very powerful things that are actually achieved when you do that. Number one, you already become a contact on the WhatsApp app. Now you’re a lawyer that sits there and you’re going to be a conversation on their WhatsApp until they consciously decide to remove you. The other thing is that it allows them to get back to you whenever it’s convenient to them without necessarily having to go back through the whole journey of searching for you on Google, clicking on your site and getting to the live chat session. From a user-experience point, it’s better, but Latinos love WhatsApp. They use it a lot. Michelle Calcote King [15:13] It seems like most of the world uses WhatsApp except for the U.S. Liel Levy [15:17] And it all goes back to the fact that — you need to remember that they're on their mobile devices. WhatsApp is an app that was built for mobile. So, it doesn't get much better than that. Michelle Calcote King [15:29] Got it. Once lawyers in these consumer law firms have Latino clients, do you see any mistakes firms are making or challenges they have in terms of actually working with these clients? Liel Levy [15:48] Yes. One of them is investing in marketing and putting efforts in place to generate Latino clients, but then not having Latino experience thought up. What happens there is that it basically generates frustration from the client standpoint. They are calling call centers where there are no Spanish speakers who can actually help them. They’re being sent contracts that are not in a language that they can understand. They also encounter that the intake agent was able to speak Spanish, but then there is no other person inside the law firm when it comes to communicating with the legal team that actually speaks Spanish. All of those things are roadblocks. If you fail at any of those points, you’re taking a risk of losing the client. That’s one of the issues that we see law firms face oftentimes is that they do want to enter the Hispanic market, but they’re not structured internally to be able to provide a good quality experience for their Spanish-speaking clients. Michelle Calcote King [17:11] That’s really important, and that’s fantastic that you guys can help these firms with that. It’s not just about capturing the client, it’s making sure that client experience continues. There’s nothing worse than feeling that sort of bait and switch feeling that you’ve been sold to in a certain way and then once you sign on the dotted line you get a different experience. Trust is so important in that attorney relationship. Liel Levy [17:45] Right and that can break if it’s not kept throughout. They may have had an excellent rapport and connection with the intake agent, but if that intake agent is not going to be leading the case beyond that point, then if whoever takes the role from intake onwards is not connecting with the client in that way, then it’s ineffective. The other thing I would say is the lack of awareness about what could be the areas of concern to Latino clients. What we know from our experiences is that oftentimes Latinos need a lot of handholding when it comes down to understanding how cases are built and what needs to happen in order for a case to run its path. If you’re not training your staff and you’re not generating awareness about how to educate your clients — even after they’ve already reached out to you, they don’t know everything that you do — assuming that they do is a huge mistake that may leave you without being able to convert really valuable leads into clients. Michelle Calcote King [19:16] I like that y’all offer that expertise. Let’s talk a little bit about your book. A lot of what we’ve talked about is what people will learn in the book, but if a law firm is looking to more effectively market to the Latino population, what are they going to take away from your book? Liel Levy [19:44 I think the most important thing that anyone picking up the book, especially lawyers, will get out of it is that it's gonna demystify a lot of the misconceptions that are around Latinos.  Most of the time when people think about Latinos, they say, “Oh, so many nationalities; so much diversity.” We feel that the first thing that someone who's approaching the Latino market should do is not try to categorize Latinos by their country of origin, but more so by the level of acculturation that they have. That’s one of the baselines that the book will give you because once you understand that, you’re going to have a completely different understanding and view of the Latino market.  The other thing I think is very valuable about reading the book is that it’s very easy to get intimidated with the prospect of, “I need to target or create a campaign for a community that I may not necessarily be part of. Where do I start? How do I do it? What steps can I take to prevent making the mistakes that others have made?” I think the book will give you that. It will give you enough of a level of awareness and education so you can at least make good, well-thought decisions about how to approach your Hispanic marketing strategy. Whether you’re going to deploy it on your own with the resources you have in-house, or whether you’re considering bringing a partner to the table to help you out, it’s going to give you enough education and awareness so that you’re not just sitting at the table listening to what others are telling you, but are actually actively partaking in the decision-making in a way that you’re looking after the interest of your law firms and clients. I oftentimes see lawyers completely lost when it comes down to being able to talk and make decisions about their Hispanic marketing strategy. Michelle Calcote King [22:04] Yeah. Lawyers are all like small business owners. They go into it because they know the law, not because they’re great marketers or great finance people. So they have to find people like you to help them navigate these things. Liel Levy [22:23] But you’d be surprised, Michelle. Even those big marketing lawyers who we are seeing all the time on TV and in the news and on billboards and such; they may have very good and strong strategies in English, but when you have conversations with them about their Spanish marketing efforts, they’re completely lost. I’ve had a lot of conversations with several of them and I think it’s really interesting to see how much of a vulnerable position they feel like they’re in when it comes down to it. So, I think that’s one of the things that the book does is takes you away from that position. Michelle Calcote King [23:03] This is great and it’s such a good conversation for us to mark Hispanic Heritage Month. I really appreciate you being here. We’ve been talking to Liel Levy of Nanato Media. Liel, tell our listeners where they can find the book and learn more about you guys. Liel Levy [23:22] Yeah! You can get the book as easily as Googling it in Amazon, but I understand that Beyond Se Habla Español: How Lawyers Win The Hispanic Market may not be something that everyone can easily spell. Hopefully, by either searching for me, Liel Levy on Google or Nanato Media, which is the name of our agency, you’re going to be able to easily find your way to a place where you can order the book. Or, if you’re interested in connecting with me or with anyone on our team, we’ll always be happy to talk to lawyers, marketing professionals or anyone who is interested in connecting with their Hispanic audience. Michelle Calcote King [24:04] Great. And we will post the links as well when we publish the podcast. All right. Well, thank you so much. Liel Levy [24:11] It’s my pleasure. Thank you very much, Michelle.

Howie Ferguson is an experienced leader and is the Executive Director of the Construction Owners Association of America. The national association consists of public and private owners who manage facilities development and capital improvement projects. The organization supports owners' success in the design and construction of buildings and facilities through education, information and collaboration. Howie has a thorough background in civil engineering, serving over nine years as a commissioned officer in the Civil Engineer Corps of the US Navy. He spent roughly 28 years as an institutional owner, including almost two decades as a Project Manager at the University of Florida where he oversaw their planning, design and construction. In this episode: AEC firms have a particular need for high standards of quality. So many small details come into play during construction, any of which can have catastrophic effects on the build. Furthermore, those potential defects can directly correlate to the longevity and even safety of the finished product. This creates a demand for higher standards and a sense of trust. For the Construction Owners Association of America, this is exactly what they aim to do. They utilize education and collaboration across their members to improve the quality of the building process. Howie Ferguson, the Executive Director of the association, has upheld these standards in his own work and as director. So what lessons can be learned by other AEC firms? Michelle Calcote King has an informative interview with Howie Ferguson, the Executive Director of the Construction Owners Association of America, to discuss the association and the principles behind their work. They go through the organization’s background and how they use education to raise standards. They also touch on a variety of topics for AEC firms, including procuring clients, the value of authenticity and accountability. Hear all this and more on this episode of the Spill the Ink podcast.

In this engaging discussion, Mark Wainwright, founder of Wainwright Insight and a seasoned consultant in business development, sheds light on the evolving role of sales in professional services. He emphasizes transforming the negative connotations of 'sales' into a more personal and supportive process. Mark introduces the concept of 'doer sellers,' blending expertise with sales skills. He shares insights on building trust with clients, evolving marketing strategies, and effective networking techniques that prioritize helping others.

With more than 20 years of experience consulting law firms, Marcie Borgal Shunk considers herself a sociologist of lawyers. She is the President and Founder of The Tilt Institute, a firm that provides leadership advisory and training along with business support. Concurrently, she serves as a Fellow of the College of Law Practice Management and is a Faculty Member at Conscious Inclusion Company. Marcie worked with The BTI Consulting Group for over 10 years where she developed an expertise in market research. In addition to all of these positions, she is also a frequent speaker on topics such as competitive intelligence and the future of law. In this episode: Leadership comes naturally to some, but even the best leaders need guidance to improve. Especially within complex systems such as law firms, leadership is a tricky proposition that requires extra care. Otherwise, the precise ecosystem of most firms is ruined, not allowing them to operate as well as they could. Marcie Borgal Shunk works directly with law firms to remedy this very problem. Her firm, The Tilt Institute, offers leadership services and analytics to guide her clients towards greater success. Across 20 years of experience as a consultant and analyst, she’s learned the key principles of great leadership. Want to know what they are? In this episode of the Spill the Ink podcast, Michelle Calcote King hosts Marcie Borgal Shunk, the President and Founder of The Tilt Institute, to go over how to further develop leadership and culture in law firms. The two talk about the current challenges that firms are facing and how to overcome them. They also touch on the tenants of a great culture, how to use data and what it takes to be a good leader.

Lindsay Diven is the Marketing and Sales Manager for Black Box Connectors and founder of Marketers Take Flight, bringing over 15 years of AEC industry expertise. In their conversation, she dives into the challenges AEC firms face when marketing large projects. Lindsay emphasizes the importance of niche marketing and digital strategies, advocating for tailored content development and a digital-first approach. She shares insights on enhancing proposals for government clients and the necessity of adapting to modern marketing techniques for greater visibility and success.

Matthew Prinn is an executive with 20 years of experience in legal pricing, marketing and operations. He is the current Principal at RFP Advisory Group, which works with general counsel to manage legal spend and requests for proposals. He honed his expertise at K&L Gates, where he worked for over a decade in business development. Over his career, Matthew has operated on both the buying and selling side of legal services, giving him a unique perspective on RFP. In this episode: While law firms tend to be traditional, the legal landscape is changing. Alternative legal services and technology are just two examples of some recent significant shifts. One of the greatest changes, however, has been the rise of Requests for Proposals, or RFPs.  RFP has quickly become a popular option for managing outside counsel spend. They’re an attractive option for many clients, but they are still relatively new, making them difficult to navigate on both sides. This has opened the door for advisory groups to come in and smooth out the process. One of these prominent consultancies is RFP Advisory Group, which have developed their expertise around best practices for RFPs. So how do you get the most out of the model? Michelle Calcote King talks with Matthew Prinn, the Principal at RFP Advisory Group, about RFPs and how to use them the right way. They discuss the different trends happening right now, how to properly establish the value proposition and how alternative legal services affect RFPs. They also touch on the mistakes that law firms make early on and how to avoid them. Hear the rest by tuning into this episode of the Spill the Ink podcast.