
Secondary Rules
Join legal scholars Ryan Goss and Joshua Neoh as they discuss public law and legal theory in their podcast, Secondary Rules. In each episode, Ryan and Joshua bring to life exciting cases, puzzles, and controversies from Australia and around the world - exploring some of the biggest questions facing any legal system, and the legal questions that define our democracy.
Ryan and Joshua are both associate professors at The Australian National University (ANU) College of Law in Canberra, teaching and researching Australian public law and legal theory. Whether you're a lawyer, a law student or just somebody interested in better understanding the legal world around us, Secondary Rules is a must-listen podcast.
Season 3: Ten(ish) Big Ideas
Season 2: Ten Great Cases.
Season 1: Two Great Courses.
Latest episodes

Sep 22, 2023 • 34min
Australian Capital Television v Commonwealth
The podcast discusses the Australian Capital Television court case, focusing on free speech in a democratic society, regulations on political advertising, the interpretation of 'directly chosen by the people', evolution of implied rights, corporate political advertising implications, and the complexity of judicial interpretation of implied freedom.

Sep 1, 2023 • 35min
Indira Gandhi v Director of the Islamic Department
The podcast explores the clash between common law and Sharia courts in Malaysia, with a focus on custody disputes and religious conversion. It discusses landmark court decisions, legal battles over religious identity, reclassifying Sharia courts, and the evolution of common law rights in Malaysia.

Aug 25, 2023 • 36min
Canadian Patriation Reference
Explore the challenges of changing a constitution in Canada, the evolution of constitutional conventions, and the landmark Supreme Court decision in the Patriation Reference. Delve into the complexities of inferring intentions in legislative and constitutional interpretation, and the impact of court judgments on political negotiations and provincial support.

Aug 18, 2023 • 36min
Donoghue v Stevenson
Guest Justice Keane, an expert on Lord Atkin, discusses the intriguing case of Donoghue v Stevenson in 1932. They explore the revolutionary judgment of Lord Atkin, the transition from biblical ideals to legal duty of care, and the complexities of tort law. The discussion also delves into the Good Samaritan parable, legal interpretations, judicial activism, and the evolution of Commonwealth common law.

Aug 11, 2023 • 37min
McCann v United Kingdom
Exploring the controversial McCann v United Kingdom case, delving into the clash between counter-terrorism measures and human rights. From the intense encounter in Gibraltar to the legal complexities and the pivotal role of the European Court of Human Rights, the podcast sheds light on the intricate balance between national security and individual liberties.

Aug 4, 2023 • 38min
Brown v. Board of Education
Legal experts Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss discuss the groundbreaking case of Brown v. Board of Education, exploring the historical context and legal implications. They delve into the impact of segregation on education, the resistance to desegregation post the ruling, and the legacy of the case in shaping government actions for integration.

May 2, 2023 • 33min
The Lord Peach Carries the Sword of Mercy
This week, on a special mini episode of Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about the Coronation of Australia’s Head of State, King Charles III, which takes place abroad this weekend. Further reading:House of Commons Library Guide to the Coronation (2023)Australia and the Coronation (Prime Minister and Cabinet)Coronation QuicheThe Coronation Cases of 1902Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.

6 snips
Oct 28, 2022 • 46min
The End of the Beginning
This week on the last Secondary Rules for 2022, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk Revelation, revolutions, recidivism, and Rishi.Remember to take our survey!Revelation (c AD 95)Garlett v WA (2022)Joshua’s new book!If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites. Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.

Oct 21, 2022 • 42min
Trussed and Quartered
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk dual-citizenship and the stripping of “foreign fighters” citizenship, the decline and fall of Liz Truss, and torture in an age of terror.Take our survey!Alexander [2022] HCA 19Bybee Memo (1 Aug 2002)If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites. Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.

Oct 14, 2022 • 38min
Lest Ye Be a Judge
Exploring topics such as the panopticon, pandemic-related surveillance, judicial appointments in Australia, and the need for transparency in the process. Delving into the role of the state in preserving life, constitutional dilemmas, and the transformation of the Australian High Court for a less politicized judiciary.