

Interbeing
Hosted by Matt Hall and Naomi Ward. Produced by Emily Crosby and Kyra Kellawan.
Interbeing is a podcast by MSB exploring what it means to lead, coach, and live in a deeply interconnected world. Hosted by Naomi Ward and Matt Hall, the show brings together educators, coaches, and thought leaders to reflect on the questions shaping international schools and beyond.In this new season we return to the heart of our work: coaching as a way of being. Together we explore how presence, curiosity, and care can shift not just our conversations, but our cultures. Inspired by Thich Nhat Hanh’s teaching on “interbeing,” we recognise that nothing exists in isolation — every choice, every relationship, every pause matters.Expect honest dialogue, stories from the field, and a commitment to learning in public. Not as answers, but as invitations to think differently about leadership, community, and the future of education.You can find out more about Futures-Focused Leadership Coaching for International Schools and MSB at www.makingstuffbetter.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 19, 2023 • 23min
Ep15 ARCHIVE: Mel Ellis Leading Belong In An International School
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better revisit a popular episode from Season 1 of Principled. Episode 2 featured Mel Ellis, Head of the Dulwich College Senior School in Singapore.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why a sense of belonging is seen as an outcome rather than something to be consciously created; the importance of students feeling secure within their identity; and how we can model a positive value-driven culture within schools. --------------------------------------To get in touch with Mel, you can find her online here:Dulwich College: https://singapore.dulwich.org/community/teachers/melanie-ellisLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-ellis-8818941a5/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en

Jul 5, 2023 • 34min
Ep14: Why Belonging Starts With The Self with Aisha Thomas
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Aisha Thomas, Founder & Director of Representation Matters, who has dedicated her career to transforming the lack of racial diversity in education.They discuss how creating belonging starts with the self; why the question "do I belong?" will always be prevalent until society represents everyone; and the importance of listening and being uncomfortable.--------------------------------------To get in touch with Aisha, you can find her online here:Representation Matters: https://www.repmatters.co.uk/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aisha-thomas-b9786946/Aisha's Book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Representation-Matters-How-anti-racist-educator/dp/1472989457--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en

Jun 21, 2023 • 37min
Ep13 ARCHIVE: Doug Lemov (Teach Like a Champion) Creating Belonging in the Classroom
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better revisit a popular episode from Season 1 of Principled. Episode 6 featured author Doug Lemov, chatting about various concepts arising from his book and online community, Teach Like A Champion.Doug's analytical approach to effective teaching made a lasting impact on the hosts. They discussed the importance of making schools a safe space; positive reinforcement tools; and how we can encourage children to achieve things they never thought possible.--------------------------------------To get in touch with Doug, find him online here:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglemov/Teach Like A Champion: https://teachlikeachampion.org/Buy Doug's book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doug-Lemov/e/B002ZC7PI6?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1674035565&sr=1-1--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Jun 7, 2023 • 31min
Ep12: Building a Unique Philosophy with Brett Girven
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Brett Girven, Principal at The Arbor School, about their innovative approach to breaking free from the confines of traditional learning.They discuss how a collaborative relationship with teaching and nature can foster belonging in children; why ecosophy is so vital to the philosophy of the school; and why the students prize spending time with a giant tortoise more than the usual treats!--------------------------------------To get in touch with Brett, you can find him online here:The Arbor School: https://www.thearborschool.ae/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-girven-355693114/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

May 10, 2023 • 29min
Ep10: Global Belonging with d'Arcy Lunn
In this episode of the Principled podcast, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to d'Arcy Lunn about the essence of global belonging.They discuss why d'Arcy draws so much inspiration, energy, and optimism from young people; how a sense of global citizenship can foster belonging; and how teaspoons of change can transform our world and our education model for the better.-----------------------------To get in touch with d'Arcy, you can find him online here:Education In Motion: https://www.eimglobal.com/Teaspoons Of Change: https://teaspoonsofchange.org/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darcy-lunn/-----------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Apr 26, 2023 • 25min
Ep9: Midway Musings
The podcast episode explores the concept of belonging, the importance of knowing oneself, and the significance of balancing thinking, doing, and being for leaders. It discusses the impact of feeling seen and heard, the complexities of diversity and inclusion, and the failure of coaching to address systemic constraints. The hosts also introduce the concept of 'belongue' and their plans for 2023.

Apr 12, 2023 • 29min
Ep8 Julie Rees - Belonging in the Curriculum
Expert in curriculum and belonging, Julie Rees discusses creating a sense of belonging in the curriculum, welcoming and making students feel safe, importance of values, and collaborative curriculum development.

Mar 29, 2023 • 34min
Ep7 Michael Cahill - Managing Endings
Author Michael Cahill from Coaching Constellations discusses the importance of managing endings, fostering a sense of belonging, and including employees in decision-making processes during transitions. The podcast explores the significance of belonging in leadership and provides practical advice for addressing endings with kindness and recognition.

Mar 15, 2023 • 37min
Ep6: Doug Lemov (Teach Like a Champion) Creating Belonging in the Classroom
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to author Doug Lemov about various concepts arising from his book and online community, Teach Like A Champion.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: how the rise of smartphones and social media has led to an increase in anxiety and depression - and why making schools a safe space can help massively; why clicking in a classroom can be a positive reinforcement tool; and why children often value being pushed to achieve things they never thought possible through the high expectations of a coach or teacher.--------------------------------------To get in touch with Doug, find him online here:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglemov/ Teach Like A Champion: https://teachlikeachampion.org/Buy Doug's book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doug-Lemov/e/B002ZC7PI6?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1674035565&sr=1-1--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Mar 1, 2023 • 31min
Ep5: Zahara Chowdhury: How Schools Should Be
Zahara Chowdhury, Founder of the School Should Be community, discusses the importance of building trust & relationships in the classroom, the role of coaching in schools & leadership development, and the need for leaders to create a culture of belonging.


