

Interbeing
Hosted by Matt Hall and Naomi Ward. Produced by Emily Crosby and Kyra Kellawan.
Interbeing is a podcast by MSB exploring what it means to lead, coach, and live in a deeply interconnected world. Hosted by Naomi Ward and Matt Hall, the show brings together educators, coaches, and thought leaders to reflect on the questions shaping international schools and beyond.In this new season we return to the heart of our work: coaching as a way of being. Together we explore how presence, curiosity, and care can shift not just our conversations, but our cultures. Inspired by Thich Nhat Hanh’s teaching on “interbeing,” we recognise that nothing exists in isolation — every choice, every relationship, every pause matters.Expect honest dialogue, stories from the field, and a commitment to learning in public. Not as answers, but as invitations to think differently about leadership, community, and the future of education.You can find out more about Futures-Focused Leadership Coaching for International Schools and MSB at www.makingstuffbetter.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

25 snips
Oct 11, 2023 • 41min
S2Ep3: Helping Young People Find Their Path With Kyra Kellawan
Kyra Kellawan, high-school educator and co-founder of Kokoro Careers, discusses embracing uniqueness in students and recognizing generational changes in education. They explore empowering students, the impact on organizational health, finding fulfillment in careers, embracing individuality in college applications, adapting to younger staff expectations, and the concept of attunement and connecting with others.

Sep 27, 2023 • 11min
S2Ep1: An Introduction To Season 2: Organisational Health
Principled is back!Welcome to Season 2 of the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better introduce their mission statement for an exciting second season.This time, we're exploring organisational health. What does it mean to create healthy systems? And how can we overcome the challenges currently faced by leaders in education?With the help of some fantastic guests, Matt and Naomi invite you on a journey to explore how we can promote safe spaces full of opportunity.So join us as we find out what the people at the forefront of education, systems thinking, ecology, consultancy and many more industries are doing to protect these spaces for the generations to come.Stay tuned for more episodes of Principled.--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en

Sep 27, 2023 • 36min
S2Ep2: Language As A Catalyst with Pádraig O Tuama
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by renowned poet and theologian, Pádraig Ó Tuama.They're kicking off their exploration of systemic and organisational health from the perspective of a poet, discussing poetry as an unpredictable language event; the important secondary purpose of all organisations that should not be overlooked; and the role of courage and innovation in teaching .--------------------------------------To get in touch with Pádraig , you can find him online here:LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/p%C3%A1draig-%C3%B3-tuama-4a7b36225 Website : https://www.padraigotuama.com/ Podcast : https://onbeing.org/series/poetry-unbound/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/ Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Aug 16, 2023 • 25min
Ep 17: A Look Back on Season 1
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall, Naomi Ward and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better sit down to look back on a successful first season of Principled.They reflect on various lightbulb moments, including why belonging is not always a positive thing; the power of story, ritual and language; and why active listening is so important when trying to cultivate inclusive environments.Thank you to everyone who has joined us on Season 1 of Principled. Stay tuned - we're not going anywhere. --------------------------------------To get in touch with the team, you can find them online here:Matt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Naomi: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/Gill: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/--------------------------------------For more information, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en

Aug 2, 2023 • 45min
Ep16: Belonging And The Human Experience with Owen Eastwood
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Owen Eastwood, performance coach and author of the Belonging: The Ancient Code Of Togetherness.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: the impact belonging has on our hormones, the link between resilience and belonging, and why we have a responsibility to ensure every decision we make allows those that come after us to thrive.--------------------------------------To get in touch with Owen, you can find him online here:Belonging: The Ancient Code Of Togetherness: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Belonging-Ancient-Togetherness-Owen-Eastwood/dp/1529415063LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-eastwood-4867a39/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en

Jul 19, 2023 • 23min
Ep15 ARCHIVE: Mel Ellis Leading Belong In An International School
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better revisit a popular episode from Season 1 of Principled. Episode 2 featured Mel Ellis, Head of the Dulwich College Senior School in Singapore.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: why a sense of belonging is seen as an outcome rather than something to be consciously created; the importance of students feeling secure within their identity; and how we can model a positive value-driven culture within schools. --------------------------------------To get in touch with Mel, you can find her online here:Dulwich College: https://singapore.dulwich.org/community/teachers/melanie-ellisLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-ellis-8818941a5/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en

Jul 5, 2023 • 34min
Ep14: Why Belonging Starts With The Self with Aisha Thomas
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Aisha Thomas, Founder & Director of Representation Matters, who has dedicated her career to transforming the lack of racial diversity in education.They discuss how creating belonging starts with the self; why the question "do I belong?" will always be prevalent until society represents everyone; and the importance of listening and being uncomfortable.--------------------------------------To get in touch with Aisha, you can find her online here:Representation Matters: https://www.repmatters.co.uk/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aisha-thomas-b9786946/Aisha's Book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Representation-Matters-How-anti-racist-educator/dp/1472989457--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en

Jun 21, 2023 • 37min
Ep13 ARCHIVE: Doug Lemov (Teach Like a Champion) Creating Belonging in the Classroom
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better revisit a popular episode from Season 1 of Principled. Episode 6 featured author Doug Lemov, chatting about various concepts arising from his book and online community, Teach Like A Champion.Doug's analytical approach to effective teaching made a lasting impact on the hosts. They discussed the importance of making schools a safe space; positive reinforcement tools; and how we can encourage children to achieve things they never thought possible.--------------------------------------To get in touch with Doug, find him online here:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglemov/Teach Like A Champion: https://teachlikeachampion.org/Buy Doug's book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doug-Lemov/e/B002ZC7PI6?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1674035565&sr=1-1--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Jun 7, 2023 • 31min
Ep12: Building a Unique Philosophy with Brett Girven
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Brett Girven, Principal at The Arbor School, about their innovative approach to breaking free from the confines of traditional learning.They discuss how a collaborative relationship with teaching and nature can foster belonging in children; why ecosophy is so vital to the philosophy of the school; and why the students prize spending time with a giant tortoise more than the usual treats!--------------------------------------To get in touch with Brett, you can find him online here:The Arbor School: https://www.thearborschool.ae/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-girven-355693114/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

May 10, 2023 • 29min
Ep10: Global Belonging with d'Arcy Lunn
In this episode of the Principled podcast, Matt Hall and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better talk to d'Arcy Lunn about the essence of global belonging.They discuss why d'Arcy draws so much inspiration, energy, and optimism from young people; how a sense of global citizenship can foster belonging; and how teaspoons of change can transform our world and our education model for the better.-----------------------------To get in touch with d'Arcy, you can find him online here:Education In Motion: https://www.eimglobal.com/Teaspoons Of Change: https://teaspoonsofchange.org/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darcy-lunn/-----------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/