

Interbeing
Hosted by Matt Hall and Naomi Ward. Produced by Emily Crosby and Kyra Kellawan.
Interbeing is a podcast by MSB exploring what it means to lead, coach, and live in a deeply interconnected world. Hosted by Naomi Ward and Matt Hall, the show brings together educators, coaches, and thought leaders to reflect on the questions shaping international schools and beyond.In this new season we return to the heart of our work: coaching as a way of being. Together we explore how presence, curiosity, and care can shift not just our conversations, but our cultures. Inspired by Thich Nhat Hanh’s teaching on “interbeing,” we recognise that nothing exists in isolation — every choice, every relationship, every pause matters.Expect honest dialogue, stories from the field, and a commitment to learning in public. Not as answers, but as invitations to think differently about leadership, community, and the future of education.You can find out more about Futures-Focused Leadership Coaching for International Schools and MSB at www.makingstuffbetter.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

Dec 20, 2023 • 37min
S2Ep8: Creative & Connected Organisations: An Improv-able Approach with Stuart Reid
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Gill Kelly and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Stuart Reid, founder and Executive Leadership Team Coach at Stuart Reid Consulting, through which he helps senior leaders overcome the challenges of their position. They discuss the importance of fun and laughter in creating organisational health; letting go and being open to playfulness, creativity, and curiosity; and how to frame mistakes as catalysts for opportunity How much can we learn from improvisation? What effect does it have on our ability to connect, be present, and discover better ways of thinking?--------------------------------------To get in touch with Stuart , you can find him online here:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stuartreid/?originalSubdomain=ukStuart Reid Consulting: https://www.stuartreid.co/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Dec 6, 2023 • 25min
S2Ep7: The Growing Importance Of Prioritising Wellbeing In Schools with Matthew Savage (part 2)
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Matthew Savage, speaker, trainer, coach, and founder of The Mona Lisa Effect®, through which Matthew explores the intersection between wellbeing and DEIJ in schools all around the world.In part 2 of their two-part series, they discuss the transformative effect of restorative practices, the need for systemic thinking, and the urgency trap. In a society where academic intelligence is prized above all else, there seems to be an ‘either/or’ approach when it comes to good grades and wellbeing. But do we have to forfeit one for the other, or is there a symbiotic relationship between the two? Join Matt and Naomi as they discuss all of this and more with esteemed leadership coach Matthew Savage.--------------------------------------To get in touch with Matthew, you can find him online here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/savageeducation/?originalSubdomain=ukThe Mona Lisa Effect: https://monalisaeffect.me/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Nov 22, 2023 • 29min
S2Ep6: Data-Driven Wellbeing In Schools: How To Nurture DEIJ with Matthew Savage (part 1)
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Matthew Savage, speaker, trainer, coach, and founder of The Mona Lisa Effect®, through which Matthew explores the intersection between wellbeing and DEIJ in schools all around the world.In part 1 of a fascinating and value-packed conversation, they discuss why data is a question and never an answer, why good intentions aren’t always enough, and the complexity of organisational health and wellness.Does community wellbeing depend up in the wellbeing of the most marginalised? What role does discomfort play in creating truly diverse and inclusive environments? And how can we address the submerged complexities that lead to the often over-simplified emergent symptoms?--------------------------------------To get in touch with Matthew, you can find him online here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/savageeducation/?originalSubdomain=ukThe Mona Lisa Effect: https://monalisaeffect.me/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Nov 8, 2023 • 36min
S2Ep5: Empowering Young Voices: Faith, Peace & Feminism with St. Mary's School
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by experienced educator and Headmistress of St. Mary’s School in Cambridge, Charlotte Avery, as well as friends and colleagues Kate Latham, Director of Teaching and Learning, and Amina. They discuss the ideals at the heart of Mary Ward schools, the oft-overlooked importance of courage, joy, and optimism, and peacebuilding not as the absence of conflict but as an active and ongoing process.--------------------------------------To get in touch with Charlotte and her colleagues, you can find them online here:Charlotte LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlotte-avery-5194747b/?originalSubdomain=ukKate LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-latham-1715181aa/?originalSubdomain=ukSt. Mary’s School: https://www.stmaryscambridge.co.uk/home.htm--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Oct 25, 2023 • 33min
S2Ep4: How We Can Create Systemic Kindness with Sam Isaacson
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by author, consultant, and founder of Coachtech Collective, Sam Isaacson.They discuss the crucial attributes great leaders have and how these impact the organisations they lead, the importance of emotional intelligence and embracing our vulnerabilities, and how well-defined structures and policies can safeguard against potential issues and protect organisational health.--------------------------------------To get in touch with Sam, you can find him online here:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samisaacson/?originalSubdomain=ukCoachtech Collective: https://www.isaacson.uk/Next Generation Leadership: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Next-Generation-Leadership-blueprint-systemic/dp/B0CGYW3BHX/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1696414106&refinements=p_27%3ASam+Isaacson&s=books&sr=1-1--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Gill Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

25 snips
Oct 11, 2023 • 41min
S2Ep3: Helping Young People Find Their Path With Kyra Kellawan
Kyra Kellawan, high-school educator and co-founder of Kokoro Careers, discusses embracing uniqueness in students and recognizing generational changes in education. They explore empowering students, the impact on organizational health, finding fulfillment in careers, embracing individuality in college applications, adapting to younger staff expectations, and the concept of attunement and connecting with others.

Sep 27, 2023 • 36min
S2Ep2: Language As A Catalyst with Pádraig O Tuama
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by renowned poet and theologian, Pádraig Ó Tuama.They're kicking off their exploration of systemic and organisational health from the perspective of a poet, discussing poetry as an unpredictable language event; the important secondary purpose of all organisations that should not be overlooked; and the role of courage and innovation in teaching .--------------------------------------To get in touch with Pádraig , you can find him online here:LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/p%C3%A1draig-%C3%B3-tuama-4a7b36225 Website : https://www.padraigotuama.com/ Podcast : https://onbeing.org/series/poetry-unbound/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=enAdditional links to follow:Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/ Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Sep 27, 2023 • 11min
S2Ep1: An Introduction To Season 2: Organisational Health
Principled is back!Welcome to Season 2 of the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better introduce their mission statement for an exciting second season.This time, we're exploring organisational health. What does it mean to create healthy systems? And how can we overcome the challenges currently faced by leaders in education?With the help of some fantastic guests, Matt and Naomi invite you on a journey to explore how we can promote safe spaces full of opportunity.So join us as we find out what the people at the forefront of education, systems thinking, ecology, consultancy and many more industries are doing to protect these spaces for the generations to come.Stay tuned for more episodes of Principled.--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en

Aug 16, 2023 • 25min
Ep 17: A Look Back on Season 1
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall, Naomi Ward and Gill Kelly of Making Stuff Better sit down to look back on a successful first season of Principled.They reflect on various lightbulb moments, including why belonging is not always a positive thing; the power of story, ritual and language; and why active listening is so important when trying to cultivate inclusive environments.Thank you to everyone who has joined us on Season 1 of Principled. Stay tuned - we're not going anywhere. --------------------------------------To get in touch with the team, you can find them online here:Matt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/Naomi: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/Gill: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkelly/--------------------------------------For more information, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en

Aug 2, 2023 • 45min
Ep16: Belonging And The Human Experience with Owen Eastwood
Welcome to the Principled podcast.In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better talk to Owen Eastwood, performance coach and author of the Belonging: The Ancient Code Of Togetherness.They discuss various topics based around the theme of belonging, including: the impact belonging has on our hormones, the link between resilience and belonging, and why we have a responsibility to ensure every decision we make allows those that come after us to thrive.--------------------------------------To get in touch with Owen, you can find him online here:Belonging: The Ancient Code Of Togetherness: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Belonging-Ancient-Togetherness-Owen-Eastwood/dp/1529415063LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-eastwood-4867a39/--------------------------------------To get in touch, please find us online here:Website: https://makingstuffbetter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/makingstuffbetterltd/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Makstubet/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/makingstuffbetter/?hl=enTwitter: https://twitter.com/stuff_better?lang=en


