Artificiality: Minds Meeting Machines

David Wolpert, a Professor at the Santa Fe Institute, explores the intricate mathematics of meaning and its implications in a world intertwined with AI. He discusses the shift from syntactic to semantic information, revealing how understanding meaning can reshape our interactions. The conversation delves into the challenges of early AI systems, causal information in economics, and the therapeutic potential of AI. Wolpert emphasizes the importance of knowing the difference between correlation and causation, advocating for AI that genuinely understands context.

Blaise Agüera y Arcas, a Google researcher, and Michael Levin, a Tufts University expert, dive into the fascinating overlap between biology and computation. They reveal how simple rules can produce complex behaviors resembling intelligence, challenging our understanding of life. Levin discusses self-sorting algorithms that mimic adaptive problem-solving, while Agüera y Arcas explores the spontaneous emergence of self-replicating programs. Their groundbreaking insights suggest that information processing is central to both biological and computational systems.

Maggie Jackson, author of the acclaimed book 'Uncertain', discusses the art of embracing uncertainty in our chaotic world. She highlights the neuroscience behind uncertainty, urging listeners to view it not as a fearsome foe but as a catalyst for creativity and adaptability. The conversation spans how AI affects our critical thinking, the dangers of automation bias, and why understanding different types of uncertainty can lead to better decision-making. Jackson’s insights provide a refreshing perspective on leveraging uncertainty as a pathway to growth rather than a roadblock.

In this episode, we talk with Greg Epstein—humanist chaplain at Harvard and MIT, bestselling author, and a leading voice on the intersection of technology, ethics, and belief systems. Greg’s latest book, Tech Agnostic, offers a provocative argument: Silicon Valley isn’t just a powerful industry—it has become the dominant religion of our time. Note: Tech Agnostic won an Artificality Book Award in 2024—check out our review here. In this interview, we explore the deep parallels between big tech and organized religion, from sacred texts and prophets to digital congregations and AI-driven eschatology. The conversation explores digital Puritanism, the "unwitting worshipers" of tech's altars, and the theological implications of AI doomerism.But this isn’t just a critique—it’s a call for a Reformation. Greg lays out a path toward a more humane and ethical future for technology, one that resists unchecked power and prioritizes human values over digital dogma.Join us for a thought-provoking conversation on faith, fear, and the future of being human in an age where technology defines what we believe in.Do you enjoy our conversations like this one? Then subscribe on your favorite platform, subscribe to our emails (free) at Artificiality.world, and check out the Artificiality Summit—our mind-expanding retreat in Bend, Oregon at Artificiality.world/summit.Thanks again to Jonathan Coulton for our music.

In a captivating dialogue, Chris Messina—creator of the hashtag and a leading product expert—shares insights on generative AI’s potential and pitfalls. He introduces a thought-provoking framework that distinguishes AI as a tool versus a medium. The conversation highlights trust and transparency as essential for AI adoption, while advocating for community collaboration to enhance product development. Chris draws parallels between the internet's early days and today's AI landscape, envisioning a future where AI becomes a partner in creativity and problem-solving.

D. Graham Burnett will tell you his day job is as a professor of science history at Princeton University. He is also co-founder of the Strother School of Radical Attention and has been associated with the Friends of Attention since 2018. But none of those positions adequately describe Graham.His bio says that he “works at the intersection of historical inquiry and artistic practice.” He writes, he performs, he makes things. He describes himself as an attention activist. Perhaps most importantly for us, Graham helps you see the world differently—and more clearly. Graham has powerful views on the effect of technology on our attention. We often riff on his idea that technology has fracked our attention into little commoditizable bits. His work has highly influenced our concern about what might happen if the same extractive practices of the attention economy are applied to the future AI-powered intimacy economy. We were thrilled to have Graham on the pod for a wide ranging conversation about attention, intimacy, and much more. Links:https://dgrahamburnett.nethttps://www.schoolofattention.orghttps://www.friendsofattention.net---If you enjoy our podcasts, please subscribe and leave a positive rating or comment. Sharing your positive feedback helps us reach more people and connect them with the world’s great minds.Subscribe to get Artificiality delivered to your email: https://www.artificiality.worldThanks to Jonathan Coulton for our music.

Michael Levin, a distinguished professor at Tufts University, explores the fascinating realm of diverse intelligences in biology. He discusses the concept of 'synthbiosis,' envisioning a future where AI coexists with evolved cellular intelligences. Levin highlights breakthroughs in regenerative medicine, such as bioelectric treatments prompting leg growth in frogs. The conversation also touches on xenobots, their autonomous abilities, and ethical considerations, ultimately redefining our understanding of intelligence across living systems.

Explore the historical significance of the umbrella as a metaphor for challenging societal norms and question the boundaries of life and intelligence. Delve into the shift from an attention-driven economy to one prioritizing personal intimacy, sparking conversations about data commoditization. Unpack the complex relationship between humans and devices like smartphones, examining their impact on knowledge and consciousness. Finally, reflect on the evolution of tools, highlighting the journey from bicycles to autonomous systems and envisioning a future of collaboration between humans and machines.

First: - Apologies for the audio! We had a production error… What’s new: - DeepSeek has created breakthroughs in both: How AI systems are trained (making it much more affordable) and how they run in real-world use (making them faster and more efficient) Details - FP8 Training: Working With Less Precise Numbers - Traditional AI training requires extremely precise numbers - DeepSeek found you can use less precise numbers (like rounding $10.857643 to $10.86) - Cut memory and computation needs significantly with minimal impact - Like teaching someone math using rounded numbers instead of carrying every decimal place - Learning from Other AIs (Distillation) - Traditional approach: AI learns everything from scratch by studying massive amounts of data - DeepSeek's approach: Use existing AI models as teachers - Like having experienced programmers mentor new developers: - Trial & Error Learning (for their R1 model) - Started with some basic "tutoring" from advanced models - Then let it practice solving problems on its own - When it found good solutions, these were fed back into training - Led to "Aha moments" where R1 discovered better ways to solve problems - Finally, polished its ability to explain its thinking clearly to humans - Smart Team Management (Mixture of Experts) - Instead of one massive system that does everything, built a team of specialists - Like running a software company with: - 256 specialists who focus on different areas - 1 generalist who helps with everything - Smart project manager who assigns work efficiently - For each task, only need 8 specialists plus the generalist - More efficient than having everyone work on everything - Efficient Memory Management (Multi-head Latent Attention) - Traditional AI is like keeping complete transcripts of every conversation - DeepSeek's approach is like taking smart meeting minutes - Captures key information in compressed format - Similar to how JPEG compresses images - Looking Ahead (Multi-Token Prediction) - Traditional AI reads one word at a time - DeepSeek looks ahead and predicts two words at once - Like a skilled reader who can read ahead while maintaining comprehension Why This Matters - Cost Revolution: Training costs of $5.6M (vs hundreds of millions) suggests a future where AI development isn't limited to tech giants. - Working Around Constraints: Shows how limitations can drive innovation—DeepSeek achieved state-of-the-art results without access to the most powerful chips (at least that’s the best conclusion at the moment). What’s Interesting - Efficiency vs Power: Challenges the assumption that advancing AI requires ever-increasing computing power - sometimes smarter engineering beats raw force. - Self-Teaching AI: R1's ability to develop reasoning capabilities through pure reinforcement learning suggests AIs can discover problem-solving methods on their own. - AI Teaching AI: The success of distillation shows how knowledge can be transferred between AI models, potentially leading to compounding improvements over time. - IP for Free: If DeepSeek can be such a fast follower through distillation, what’s the advantage of OpenAI, Google, or another company to release a novel model?

We’re excited to welcome writers and directors Hans Block and Moritz Riesewieck to the podcast. Their debut film, ‘The Cleaners,’ about the shadow industry of digital censorship premiered at the Sundance Film Festival in 2018 and has since won numerous international awards and been screened at more than 70 international film festivals. We invited Hans and Moritz to the podcast to talk about their latest film, Eternal You, which examines the story of people who live on as digital replicants—and the people who keep them living on. We found the film to be quite powerful. At times inspiring and at others disturbing and distressing. Can a generative ghost help people through their grief or trap them in it? Is falling for a digital replica healthy or harmful? Are the companies creating these technologies benefitting their users or extracting from them? Eternal You is a powerful and important film. We highly recommend taking the time to watch it—and allowing for time to digest and consider. Hans and Moritz have done a brilliant job exploring a challenging and delicate topic with kindness and care. Bravo. ------------ If you enjoy our podcasts, please subscribe and leave a positive rating or comment. Sharing your positive feedback helps us reach more people and connect them with the world’s great minds. Subscribe to get Artificiality delivered to your email Learn about our book Make Better Decisions and buy it on Amazon Thanks to Jonathan Coulton for our music