
When the Facts Change
Hosted by journalist Bernard Hickey, When the Facts Change is your essential weekly guide to the intersection of economics, business and politics in Aotearoa New Zealand. Presented by The Spinoff together with Kiwibank.Visit kiwibank.co.nz to find out how Kiwibank are making Kiwi better off
Latest episodes

Nov 2, 2021 • 38min
Bonus episode: Covid and our economy
Kiwibank economist Mary Jo Vergara joins Simon Day to talk about how Covid-19 has affected the local economy over the last two years. What has the pandemic revealed about the country’s economic strengths and weaknesses, and what does the forecast for the future look like? Mary Jo also speaks to the financial position of women in Aotearoa and how they have been among the worst affected by the economic fallout from the pandemic. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 28, 2021 • 49min
How would a central bank digital currency work?
Central banks all over the world have been looking at building their own digital currencies – and in the last couple of months, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand has issued a discussion paper about how one might work here. To find out more, Bernard talks to Ian Woolford, the head of money and cash at the RBNZ, and Janine Grainger, the CEO of NZ-based exchange Easy Crypto. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 21, 2021 • 54min
Three storeys high and rising
A big new bipartisan deal on housing was announced this week that could change the face of our cities and allow more medium-density housing to be built. But is there a piece of the puzzle missing? To discuss the new RMA changes and the issues they raise, Bernard is joined by Wellington City Councillor Tamatha Paul, Wellington Regional Councillor Thomas Nash, National Party housing spokesperson Nicola Willis and Kiwibank economist Jeremy Couchman. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 14, 2021 • 51min
Joining the dots to solve the housing crisis
There’s no shortage of cash piled up in New Zealand’s banks and pension funds – but what we do have a shortage of is affordable housing. So how do we connect all the money in the institutional funding sector with the housing projects that would begin to solve the housing crisis? To find out more, Bernard talks to Community Finance GM Paul Gilberd, Forever Affordable Housing founder Imogen Schoots and Community Housing Aotearoa CEO Victoria Crockford. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 7, 2021 • 59min
What we've learned about working from home
Over the last 18 months Covid-19 has changed the way many of us work and put real pressures on how we organise our lives. To find out more about how the culture of work has changed, the rise of burnout and the inequities the pandemic has exposed, Bernard Hickey talks to tech leader Rowan Simpson and clinical psychologist Jacqui Maguire. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 30, 2021 • 48min
The B Corp moment
More and more companies are committing to doing sustainable and ethical business by becoming B Corporation accredited. Bernard Hickey talks to Kiwibank CEO Steve Jurkovich about what B Corp certification means and why they’ve done it, and B Corp ambassador Tim Jones from Grow Good explains what companies have to do to become accredited. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 23, 2021 • 53min
How sustainable is your supply chain?
Over the last 30 years, we’ve built an incredibly complex supply chain to give us stuff really cheap. But is it really? Or have the costs just been pushed onto the environment and other workers? How do we find out which products are produced cleanly and don’t impose those unseen costs? On this week’s episode, Bernard speaks to John Holt, who’s launching All Things Considered – a global directory that collates, organises and fact checks the sustainability claims of companies and organisations. He also talks to Sam Jones, founder of apparel company Little Yellow Bird, about how she’s using this information to do business in a sustainable, transparent way. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 16, 2021 • 43min
Cleaning up capitalism from the inside out
ESG (Environmental, Social, Governance) investing is a movement that has arisen over the last decade or so, where big fund managers invest only in companies with sustainable, socially responsible policies. It turns out this is often also the most profitable approach in the long run. One of the leading players in this movement has been the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, and its CEO Matt Whineray joins Bernard Hickey in this episode to talk about how the fund operates its ESG policy. Bernard also talks to Barry Coates, founder and CEO of individual ethical investment tool Mindful Money, about how to tell if a company is really as ethical as they say they are. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 13, 2021 • 45min
Bonus episode: Why Kiwibank is embracing te ao Māori
In recognition of Te Wiki o Te Reo Māori and what the language means to the fabric of Aotearoa, The Spinoff’s commercial editorial director Simon Day speaks to Teahooterangi Pihama, head of Māori advisory, and Keita Te Ngoungou, Kiwibank Māori advisor. They’ve been given a mandate to steer the Kiwibank waka on it’s journey into te ao Māori, and talk about why te reo Māori is important for all New Zealanders, and how lifting the cultural competency at Kiwibank can improve outcomes for Māori staff and customers, support the growth of the Māori economy and raise the financial capabilities of Māori. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 9, 2021 • 51min
The future of capitalism, with Luigi Zingales
Gordon Gekko’s “Greed is Good” era of shareholder-driven global capitalism is ending, but what and who will replace it? Bernard Hickey interviews renowned Chicago School economist, author and podcaster Luigi Zingales (Capitalisn't) about what went wrong with corporate capitalism and how it could be fixed. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices