The RunOut Podcast

Last month, an 8-year-old boy and his dad “climbed” El Capitan with the help of two other anonymous climbers who presumably guided the father-son team, fixing all the ropes so they could jug up the wall. We look at the media attention this ascent received, and discuss our concerns over claiming these kinds of records. Our main guest is a woman who Lynn Hill once called, “the greatest female sport climber” — Katie Brown. Katie has produced a new memoir about her precocious life as a world-class competition and sport climber, as well as her fraught relationship with her mom, her struggles with eating disorders, and how becoming a mom herself has helped her reframe everything. Our final bit is pulled from the archives of The Davenports with this yacht rock classic cover of Jay Ferguson’s 1977 song Thunder Island. Who’s that on bass, you ask? None other than our own Chris Kalous. Show Notes Did an 8-year-old actually climb Yosemite’s El Capitan? Not really. It’s complicated Father of 8-year-old who ascended El Capitan challenges criticism of his son’s feat Unraveled: A Climber’s Journey through Darkness and Back Jay Ferguson – Thunder Island (1978 – HD) Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

If there is one thing you can say about this show, it’s that we are the most fair and balanced climbing podcast in the world. Following last episode’s discussion about Yosemite’s proposed overnight permits for big-wall climbers, we are speaking to two guests from the opposite side of the debate: Jesse McGahey is Yosemite National Park’s head climbing ranger. And Timmy O’Neill is a longtime professional athlete, founder of Paradox Sports, and board member of the Yosemite Climbing Association. Our discussion over this important rule-change proposal continues. But first, we muse about the art of the sandbag. When is it totes aprops to hose your friend, and when is it just downright cruel? And what does it say about YOU when you’re the only climber not getting sandbagged by your peers? Finally, Lucas Roman returns to the show to read an excerpt from his new book “The Greater Fool: Brad Gobright and the Blinding Shine of Originality.” Show Notes Read about the Wilderness Climbing Permits from the NPS Add your voice to the discussion! Submit your comment about the Wilderness Climbing Permits here by November 16. Lucas Roman’s new book “The Greater Fool: Brad Gobright and the Blinding Shine of Originality” is available at DiAngelo Publications. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

The Yosemite National Park is attempting to make its Covid-era rule in which climbers are required to have a permit to spend the night on a big wall permanent—and predictably, climbers aren’t happy about it. We spoke to two of the most active big wall climbers in Yosemite in recent years about the current state of affairs in the Valley: Gena Wood is a former climbing ranger and a veteran of more than 20 ascents of El Cap. And Lance Colley has also worked for the park service, and has completed 29 ascents of El Cap in the past three years. But first, the hosts catch up after two very different climbing experiences, and discuss the serial chipper on the loose in Utah and determine just who, or what, is to blame. Finally, “Jefe” (Jeff Jackson) returns to the final bit with some Hawaiian-inflected jams. Show Notes Submit your comment on big-wall permits by November! Follow Lance Colley on Instagram Follow Gena Wood on Instagram Watch the Park Service’s virtual town hall explaining their rationale for the permit James Hornibrook’s Change petition against the permits Read up on Booz Allen Hamilton in the NYT and again in the NYT. Evening Sends article on chipping. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

Who doesn’t love booty? Finding gear on a route can make a climber’s day, but what are the best practices for finding the owner’s gear? Court’s in order for your friendly podcast hosts as they debate the finer points of booty while litigating one listener’s story of being accused of not doing enough to return booty to its “rightful” owner. Our main guest today is Jeff Jackson, aka “Jefe.” Jeff is easily one of climbing’s most prolific route developers and greatest writers and storytellers. A former editor of Rock and Ice magazine and successful screenplay writer, Jeff currently teaches creative writing at the University of Hawaii Maui College. While living on Maui, Jeff has helped develop hundreds of new rock climbs and crags. Some of the more famous routes of his career, however, are located in Mexico and include El Sendero Luminoso in El Potrero Chico and El Gavilan on La Popa, which happens to be the subject of a new climbing film. Last and certainly least, “Whose PSSAT is this anyway?” returns for today’s final bit. Show Notes Read “Paradox of Paradise,” by Jeff Jackson, which was originally published by Rock and Ice and appeared in Best American Sports Writing 2019. Read “A Climber’s Ghost Story, Unexplained,” also by Jefe. Check out the trailer for the new El Gavilan film by Savannah Cummins. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

Jonathan Siegrist, one of the world’s best sport climbers, returns to the show to share the news of his recent send of Rifle’s hardest route. We catch up on the latest in the climbing world in a casual conversation that traverses freely and honestly across the climbing landscape. But first, your friendly neighborhood podcast hosts explore what climbing may — or may never — mean for our kids, and how we think about raising the next generation in an era of social-media-fueled pressure to be “rad” at everything. As always, you won’t want to miss today’s final bit from Butchcop. Photo: @BearCam Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com Show notes Follow Jonathan Siegrist on Instagram And follow BearCam Chris Kalous’ instagram post Butchcop on Spotify The RunOut bonus interview with Joe Kinder about establishing Kinder Cakes

Our guest today is Seb Bouin, one of the best rock climbers on Earth and the author of DNA, one of three 5.15d rock climbs established thus far. We talk to Seb about grades, how he measures success, the benefits of climbing outdoors vs. training indoors, and where the future of rock climbing is heading next. But first, we take a somber look at a recent accident on Half Dome, in which a young woman fell 80 feet and badly injured herself. In the aftermath of this terrible accident, calls are sounding to add bolts to one of Half Dome’s more historic climbs. We consider the contours of the debate and attempt to arrive at some ideas for how to proceed in the wake of an accident. Today’s final bit comes from the band Rebelle, a Quebec-based band whose drummer, Joey Kane, is a sport climber who first discovered climbing during the pandemic and has been hooked ever since. This is their new song, Head on Fire. Show Notes Seb Bouin on Instagram: DNA (9c), Iron Curtain (9a+/b), Change (9b+), Nordic Marathon. Who Cares about the World’s Hardest Route on Evening Sends. 80-foot Slab Fall Leaves Yosemite Climber Critically Injured Student hit with $1.2m medical bill after falling in Yosemite Donate to Anna’s Recovery Rebelle on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, Spotify Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

To start, we grimly remark on the latest round up of avalanches, landslides, and glacier collapses and what that means for mountain travel in the future. Our main guest today is Cody Townsend, a self-proclaimed “rock climbing gumby” but a true all-mountain badass, free skier, ski mountaineer, and extreme-sports ambassador. Cody offers a wonderful outsider-looking-in perspective on our self-serious sport. He also dishes up the latest from Ski the Fifty, a multi-year effort to ski all 50 of the classic ski descents of North America, as listed in the eponymous coffee table book by Chris Davenport and Penn Newhard. Some of the percussions in today’s final bit riff are created using climbing gear—but knowing that won’t stop you from putting on some serious bass face. This track comes to us from Craig Bruenger, a climber who plays in the death-metal band Ahtme. Check out his Instagram page to see his videos. Show Notes Second glacier avalanche in a week shows dangers of a warming climate Ice avalanche kills 6 in Italian Alps, sparks mass rescue effort Cody Townsend on Instagram Ski the Fifty Cody’s “Best Ski Line of 2014” video Craig Bruenger on Instagram — His gear percussion video Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

Connor Herson returns to the show, a few years older, a few inches taller, and more than a few impressive ticks under his belt. One of his latest ascents is “Empath” on gear—potentially one of the harder gear leads ever recorded. Carlo Traversi first climbed Empath and proposed 5.15a. After quickly sending the route as a sport climb, Connor had the idea of trying it on gear. In this episode he shares his experience with that process, his thoughts about the difficulty of the route, and his vision for what’s next (hint: it’s not climbing). First, your friendly and utterly relatable hosts pay homage to a kind of trad climbing that most of y’all will be more familiar with—the everyday, everyperson experience of going up on a 5.10 or 5.11 with a rack of gear and trying to onsight your way to the top. Could this be any different from, say, the ego-fluff of Ten Sleep? Finally, Jeremy Fullerton gives us the first-person account of one of the most epic days in Rocky Mountain National Park, when the mountains moved. Show Notes Connor Herson on Instagram. Does Connor’s ascent of Empath on gear count as the hardest trad ascent? Rocky Mountain National Park Closes Chaos Canyon Area Due to Rockslide Watch Will Mondragon’s footy of the rockslide. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

Hard, scary trad climbing is all fun and games until someone breaks their back. That’s what happened to Molly Mitchell on Crank It, a 5.13+ sport climb in Boulder Canyon that Molly was attempting to headpoint on gear. Nevertheless, Molly sought redemption and returned to the climb years later and ultimately sent it on gear. But what she discovered about her self, and her health, ended up being the real prize of this inspiring journey. But first, the hosts take a closer look at how one of the biggest and hardest routes on Denali got not one but two insane speed records set within a matter of weeks. That would be the Slovak Direct, with Matt Cornell, Jackson Marvell and Alan Rousseau setting the pace at 21 hours, 35 minutes. Then two weeks later, Michael Gardner, Sam Hennessey and Rob Smith came in at 17 hours, 10 minutes. Our final bit is music from an old classic. Show Notes Follow Molly Mitchell on Instagram. Read Climbing magazine’s report on Molly’s ascent. The Alpinist reports on the Slovak Direct. Justification for an Elitist Attitude, by Mark Twight. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

We begin with a conversation with Ben Hanna, the newest member of the prestigious USA Climbing National Team. At 23 years young, Ben is a longtime crusher from Santa Fe who we’ve watched go from being a young grommet at Rifle to throwing down at World Cups with the world’s best. Ben talks to us about what the current comp scene is like, a short-lived controversy with the IFSC, and how living in a training house with some of the best climbers in the world upped his game. Next, we speak with Wali Kamal, a Pakistani-American climber from California who is working to support the development of crags and climbers in Pakistan. We wanted to highlight his efforts to strengthen the Pakistani climbing community, and discuss how this kind of development is so much more meaningful than the kind that only involves placing bolts in your local choss pile. Last but not least, we’re happy to introduce you to Bridget Epitropakis, a bright and talented climber and comedian from Australia who is currently working the comedy club scene in the front range of Colorado when she’s not out in Eldo. Show Notes Follow Ben Hanna on Instagram IFSC Last Minute Rule Change … Follow Wali Kamal on Instagram Follow Zom Connection and contribute to their GoFundMe to support Pakistani climbing. Follow Bridget Epitropakis on Instagram and Twitter Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com