The RunOut Podcast

What’s the best way to belay with a GriGri? How should you build an anchor? Is that CE-certified piece of webbing really strong enough for real-world climbing? The internet has an opinion on this and more! Walk with us through the muck of know-it-alls offering their two cents on everything. Next, one of our favorite writers Jeff Smooth returns to the show to plug his new book All and Nothing: Inside Free Soloing, and regale us with his own experiences in this darkest of dark arts. Last but never least, Madeleine Sorkin shares how her experience of sending the hardest route on the Diamond face of Long’s Peak inspired her in more ways than one. Show Notes All and Nothing: Inside Free Soloing, available from The Mountaineers or wherever you get books. Check out episode #21 of The RunOut for our first interview with Jeff Smoot on his last book, Hangdog Days. Follow Madeleine Sorkin on Instagram Listen to our bonus interview with Madaleine by joining us on Patreon. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcastContact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

We kick it with Alex Honnold, the rock climber who was once on 60 Minutes. He has even done a few other impressive things since then … you know, like free soloing El-fucking-Cap. It’s been a big year for Honnold, from traversing the polar regions of Greenland in search of a 4,000-foot unclimbed sea cliff while doing extreme climate science, to going deep into the pain cave on his epic HURT traverse in Red Rock, to nearly killing Magnus Mitbo, to perhaps, most importantly, becoming a dad. All while expanding his reach as media star. Honnold was gracious enough to come down off his perch and roll around in the muck with us podcasting lowlifes for a candid and fun conversation that traverses all the great things that we love about climbing, proving that he’s still a dirtbag at heart. To hear an extended cut of our interview with Alex Honnold, please support the show by becoming a Rope Gun on Patreon. But first, we attend to some unfinished business in the form of arbitrating, litigating, and otherwise conversing about booty. The “crazy girl” from our recent debate about booty’d gear writes in with her side of the story, and we formally submit her complaint into the record. Court’s in session and all the booty is on the line. Last but not least, we’re honored to share an excerpt from one of our favorite climbing podcasts in the world, the Jam Crack podcast with Niall Grimes. This interview excerpt with the great Ben Moon is not to be missed. Show Notes Alex Honnold in Greenland on National Geographic Alex Honnold’s HURT traverse Alex Honnold Free Solos with Magnus Mitbo Part one of the great booty debate, Runout #88 Listen to the whole JamCrack Podcast 112 with Ben Moon Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

We’ve got a double-header today with two amazing guests. Our first guest is Scott Johnston, a coach, trainer, and co-author of Training for the New Alpinism, with over 200,000 copies sold. Scott recently left his perch at Uphill Athlete, along with many of the coaches, to continue their work at Evoke Endurance. We talk to Scott about a healthier approach to training for comprehensive fitness, whether on the rock or in the big mountains. Next, we speak to Libby Sauter, a family nurse practitioner and trad climber who holds the women’s speed record on the Nose. She set that record in 2014 with Mayan Smith Gobat, clocking a time of 4:43. Libby took a big step back from speed climbing after seeing her dear friend Quinn Brett break her back while trying to beat her record. In the past few years, she’s been trying to start a family with her partner, but has suffered tragic loss many times over through multiple miscarriages. Libby shares the struggle of this journey honestly and openly, with the goal of influencing other female climbers and athletes to think about what it means to have it all. Our final bit today is some Buddy Spray for friend of the pod Wendy Williams, who, at age 48, just climbed the hardest route of her life. Show Notes Connect with Scott Johnston at Evoke Endurance and follow him and his team on Instagram. Training for the New Alpinism Libby Sauter on Instagram. Video: Libby and Mayan break the Nose speed record. Free (Donation-based) pregnancy and infant loss counseling Fertility Doctor YouTube The Turnaway Study: Cost of being denied abortions Wendy Williams: At 48, I tried everything. Here’s What Helped Me (Finally) Send. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

Last month, an 8-year-old boy and his dad “climbed” El Capitan with the help of two other anonymous climbers who presumably guided the father-son team, fixing all the ropes so they could jug up the wall. We look at the media attention this ascent received, and discuss our concerns over claiming these kinds of records. Our main guest is a woman who Lynn Hill once called, “the greatest female sport climber” — Katie Brown. Katie has produced a new memoir about her precocious life as a world-class competition and sport climber, as well as her fraught relationship with her mom, her struggles with eating disorders, and how becoming a mom herself has helped her reframe everything. Our final bit is pulled from the archives of The Davenports with this yacht rock classic cover of Jay Ferguson’s 1977 song Thunder Island. Who’s that on bass, you ask? None other than our own Chris Kalous. Show Notes Did an 8-year-old actually climb Yosemite’s El Capitan? Not really. It’s complicated Father of 8-year-old who ascended El Capitan challenges criticism of his son’s feat Unraveled: A Climber's Journey through Darkness and Back Jay Ferguson - Thunder Island (1978 - HD) Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcastContact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

If there is one thing you can say about this show, it’s that we are the most fair and balanced climbing podcast in the world. Following last episode’s discussion about Yosemite’s proposed overnight permits for big-wall climbers, we are speaking to two guests from the opposite side of the debate: Jesse McGahey is Yosemite National Park’s head climbing ranger. And Timmy O’Neill is a longtime professional athlete, founder of Paradox Sports, and board member of the Yosemite Climbing Association. Our discussion over this important rule-change proposal continues. But first, we muse about the art of the sandbag. When is it totes aprops to hose your friend, and when is it just downright cruel? And what does it say about YOU when you’re the only climber not getting sandbagged by your peers? Finally, Lucas Roman returns to the show to read an excerpt from his new book “The Greater Fool: Brad Gobright and the Blinding Shine of Originality.” Show Notes Read about the Wilderness Climbing Permits from the NPS Add your voice to the discussion! Submit your comment about the Wilderness Climbing Permits here by November 16. Lucas Roman’s new book “The Greater Fool: Brad Gobright and the Blinding Shine of Originality” is available at DiAngelo Publications. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcastContact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

The Yosemite National Park is attempting to make its Covid-era rule in which climbers are required to have a permit to spend the night on a big wall permanent—and predictably, climbers aren’t happy about it. We spoke to two of the most active big wall climbers in Yosemite in recent years about the current state of affairs in the Valley: Gena Wood is a former climbing ranger and a veteran of more than 20 ascents of El Cap. And Lance Colley has also worked for the park service, and has completed 29 ascents of El Cap in the past three years. But first, the hosts catch up after two very different climbing experiences, and discuss the serial chipper on the loose in Utah and determine just who, or what, is to blame. Finally, “Jefe” (Jeff Jackson) returns to the final bit with some Hawaiian-inflected jams. Show Notes Submit your comment on big-wall permits by November! Follow Lance Colley on Instagram Follow Gena Wood on Instagram Watch the Park Service’s virtual town hall explaining their rationale for the permit James Hornibrook’s Change petition against the permits Read up on Booz Allen Hamilton in the NYT and again in the NYT. Evening Sends article on chipping. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcastContact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

Who doesn’t love booty? Finding gear on a route can make a climber’s day, but what are the best practices for finding the owner’s gear? Court’s in order for your friendly podcast hosts as they debate the finer points of booty while litigating one listener’s story of being accused of not doing enough to return booty to its “rightful” owner. Our main guest today is Jeff Jackson, aka “Jefe.” Jeff is easily one of climbing’s most prolific route developers and greatest writers and storytellers. A former editor of Rock and Ice magazine and successful screenplay writer, Jeff currently teaches creative writing at the University of Hawaii Maui College. While living on Maui, Jeff has helped develop hundreds of new rock climbs and crags. Some of the more famous routes of his career, however, are located in Mexico and include El Sendero Luminoso in El Potrero Chico and El Gavilan on La Popa, which happens to be the subject of a new climbing film. Last and certainly least, “Whose PSSAT is this anyway?” returns for today’s final bit. Show Notes Read “Paradox of Paradise,” by Jeff Jackson, which was originally published by Rock and Ice and appeared in Best American Sports Writing 2019. Read “A Climber’s Ghost Story, Unexplained,” also by Jefe. Check out the trailer for the new El Gavilan film by Savannah Cummins. Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcastContact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

Jonathan Siegrist, one of the world’s best sport climbers, returns to the show to share the news of his recent send of Rifle’s hardest route. We catch up on the latest in the climbing world in a casual conversation that traverses freely and honestly across the climbing landscape. But first, your friendly neighborhood podcast hosts explore what climbing may — or may never — mean for our kids, and how we think about raising the next generation in an era of social-media-fueled pressure to be “rad” at everything. As always, you won’t want to miss today’s final bit from Butchcop. Photo: @BearCam Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcast Contact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com Show notes Follow Jonathan Siegrist on Instagram And follow BearCam Chris Kalous' instagram post Butchcop on Spotify The RunOut bonus interview with Joe Kinder about establishing Kinder Cakes

Our guest today is Seb Bouin, one of the best rock climbers on Earth and the author of DNA, one of three 5.15d rock climbs established thus far. We talk to Seb about grades, how he measures success, the benefits of climbing outdoors vs. training indoors, and where the future of rock climbing is heading next. But first, we take a somber look at a recent accident on Half Dome, in which a young woman fell 80 feet and badly injured herself. In the aftermath of this terrible accident, calls are sounding to add bolts to one of Half Dome’s more historic climbs. We consider the contours of the debate and attempt to arrive at some ideas for how to proceed in the wake of an accident. Today’s final bit comes from the band Rebelle, a Quebec-based band whose drummer, Joey Kane, is a sport climber who first discovered climbing during the pandemic and has been hooked ever since. This is their new song, Head on Fire. Show Notes Seb Bouin on Instagram: DNA (9c), Iron Curtain (9a+/b), Change (9b+), Nordic Marathon. Who Cares about the World’s Hardest Route on Evening Sends. 80-foot Slab Fall Leaves Yosemite Climber Critically Injured Student hit with $1.2m medical bill after falling in Yosemite Donate to Anna’s Recovery Rebelle on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, Spotify Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcastContact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com

To start, we grimly remark on the latest round up of avalanches, landslides, and glacier collapses and what that means for mountain travel in the future. Our main guest today is Cody Townsend, a self-proclaimed “rock climbing gumby” but a true all-mountain badass, free skier, ski mountaineer, and extreme-sports ambassador. Cody offers a wonderful outsider-looking-in perspective on our self-serious sport. He also dishes up the latest from Ski the Fifty, a multi-year effort to ski all 50 of the classic ski descents of North America, as listed in the eponymous coffee table book by Chris Davenport and Penn Newhard. Some of the percussions in today’s final bit riff are created using climbing gear—but knowing that won’t stop you from putting on some serious bass face. This track comes to us from Craig Bruenger, a climber who plays in the death-metal band Ahtme. Check out his Instagram page to see his videos. Show Notes Second glacier avalanche in a week shows dangers of a warming climate Ice avalanche kills 6 in Italian Alps, sparks mass rescue effort Cody Townsend on Instagram Ski the Fifty Craig Bruenger on Instagram — His gear percussion video Become a RunOut Rope Gun! Support our podcast and increase your RunOut runtime. Bonus episodes, AMA, and more will be available to our Rope Guns. Thank you for your support! http://patreon.com/runoutpodcastContact us Send ideas, voicemail, feedback and more. andrew@runoutpodcast.com // chris@runoutpodcast.com