The Game Changing Attorney Podcast with Michael Mogill

What do you do when there’s no one to turn to and every decision rests on you? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill answer raw, real questions from law firm owners navigating isolation, leadership doubts, and the pressure to stay strong when everything feels uncertain. From managing tough team decisions to questioning your purpose as a business owner, Michael shares why staying in the arena, even when you’re tired, scared, or second-guessing yourself, is the mark of true leadership. Here’s what you’ll learn: How to make hard calls when you have no one to confide in Why every leader questions their purpose and how to push through the low points What it takes to build a trusted community that keeps you grounded and growing When the weight of leadership feels heaviest, that’s when you prove you’re built for it. ---- 06:28 – Jessica reads a listener question about making hard decisions without anyone to confide in. 06:57 – Michael discusses isolation in leadership and why the Crisp Community exists to combat it. 10:12 – Michael uses a Reddit story and triathlon training as a metaphor for consistency and identity in leadership. 10:54 – Michael describes the moments every entrepreneur questions whether they’re cut out for this. 14:13 – Michael breaks down why knowledge only becomes power when paired with behavioral change. 15:19 – Michael explains why struggle is part of the journey and how adversity builds the next level of leadership. 16:44 – Michael opens up about decision fatigue and the importance of trusting your team. ---- Links & Resources: The Game Changers Summit Steve Jobs Tim Cook ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 387. AMMA — Stop Cleaning Up Their Mess: The Secret to a Self-Sufficient Team 363. AMMA — How to Master Decision-Making Like a Pro 331. AMMA — Failure to Reflect is Failure to Grow: The Brutal Truth About Staying Stuck

Joe De Sena, founder and CEO of Spartan Race, shares his journey from cleaning pools in Queens to building a global empire. He emphasizes that embracing discomfort is essential for developing resilience and grit. Joe reveals the importance of finding your 'why' and committing fully to your goals, likening it to the dedication of marathon monks. He argues that daily challenges, like cold showers, prepare us for life’s tougher moments. Ultimately, he believes persistence is key to achieving unshakable success and building lasting relationships.

Building trust is essential in business and life. Learn how to effectively hire an executive assistant who can manage your time wisely. Discover why success can complicate relationships and how to maintain authenticity. Explore practical ways to prevent entitlement in children by teaching them the value of hard work. With strategies on prioritizing personal connections and using real-life lessons, this discussion offers valuable insights for thriving at work and home.

What happens when the nation’s most successful law firm owners debate where the legal industry is headed next? As part of the “Road to the Summit”, a special series ramping up to the 2025 Game Changers Summit this November 12–13, we’re revisiting some of the most powerful conversations ever featured at our events. In this encore episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, we revisit the Law Firm of the Future panel live from the 2022 Game Changers Summit, where Michael Mogill sits down with Alexander Shunnarah, Anthony Johnson, Bob Tharp, and Eric Chaffin for an unfiltered conversation about the forces reshaping the legal industry and what it takes to lead in the next era. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why Wall Street’s arrival in legal services could transform how firms grow and compete How to use data, KPIs, and culture to strengthen your firm’s foundation before outside investors do What it takes to future-proof your business in an era of automation, consolidation, and client-driven expectations The future of law isn’t waiting — it’s already here. Are you ready to lead it? ---- Show Notes: 03:04 – Anthony Johnson explains why the legal industry’s lag in adopting technology will soon give way to rapid automation and smarter processes. 04:44 – Alexander Shunnarah shares how private equity and ABS investment are already reshaping the legal marketplace. 05:35 – Bob Tharp urges firm owners to overcome their fear of KPIs and treat data as the foundation of every decision. 06:32 – Eric Chaffin reveals how “doing good by doing right” became his firm’s rallying call and culture cornerstone. 08:19 – Anthony Johnson breaks down why data has surpassed oil in value and how information drives better firm strategy. 10:22 – Bob Tharp predicts the end of the billable hour and explains why clients will demand flat-rate pricing and cost transparency. 17:18 – Alexander Shunnarah discusses his firm’s evolution from pre-litigation to a full trial practice — and why brand integrity matters. 19:58 – Eric Chaffin shares a deeply personal story of overcoming adversity, proving that humility and vulnerability are essential to leadership. ---- Links & Resources: Alexander Shunnarah Trial Attorneys Anthony Johnson Bob Tharp Eric Chaffin Rocket Lawyer ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 372. The Surprising ROI of Doing the Right Thing with Chaffin Luhana 204. Alexander Shunnarah — The Thin Line Between Success and Failure 57. Bob Tharp — 1% Better Every Day

What if hitting your biggest goals is the very thing that makes you feel lost? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill unpack what happens after the win — when the goal you worked years to achieve doesn’t deliver the fulfillment you expected. From the emotional crash that follows major milestones to the deeper search for purpose that defines lasting success, Michael shares a personal perspective on how to realign your ambition with meaning before burnout takes over. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why achievement alone can’t sustain fulfillment and what your brain is really craving after success How to redefine progress so you stay challenged, inspired, and connected to a greater purpose What it takes to build a vision so big it reignites your drive and gives your goals meaning again You’ve conquered the mountain. Now it’s time to discover what comes next. ---- 06:30 – The danger of comparing your success to what you see on social media 07:46 – Why balance is possible, but only after you’ve earned it 09:46 – The price of success and the unseen sacrifices behind every highlight reel 12:32 – How to weigh big opportunities against their personal cost 14:06 – The story of Rick Moranis and redefining success around family and values 16:16 – Why achieving major goals can leave you feeling empty 18:57 – How to reignite your drive by setting a bigger vision that makes an impact ---- Links & Resources: Die with Zero by Bill Perkins  Rick Moranis Honey, I Shrunk the Kids Tony Robbins ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 329. Crush Goals, Not Excuses: Turn Empty Resolutions Into Results 317. Crushing Mediocrity: The Art of Setting and Meeting Higher Expectations 230. How To Achieve Bigger Goals

What does it take to build a brand so strong it outlasts markets, competitors, and entire eras of legal marketing? As part of the “Road to the Summit”, a special series ramping up to the 2025 Game Changers Summit this November 12-13, we’re revisiting some of the most powerful conversations ever featured at our events. In this encore episode of the Game Changing Attorney Podcast, we revisit the legendary Power Players Panel live from the 2021 Game Changers Summit.  Michael Mogill sits down with Alexander Shunnarah, Roopal Luhana, Joe Fried, and Harlan Schillinger, four industry icons who have redefined leadership, innovation, and influence in the legal world. From personal transformation and authenticity to the rise of digital dominance and firm ownership shifts, this discussion uncovers how the best continue to rise while others fall behind. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why staying on top requires constant reinvention and relentless commitment to growth How to build credibility and client loyalty through honesty and exceptional service What it takes to future-proof your firm in an era of non-lawyer ownership and corporate disruption These are the voices shaping the next generation of law, and this conversation will show you how to stand among them.  ---- Show Notes: 03:03 – Roopal Luhana shares why aligning with Pittsburgh Steeler Najee Harris reflects her firm’s values and mission of giving back 05:04 – Joe Fried explains how consistency, purpose, and fear management shaped his dominance in trucking law 09:26 – Alexander Shunnarah reveals why staying on top is harder than getting there and how constant reinvention keeps his brand strong 11:42 – Harlan Schillinger discusses why retirement is a myth and how passion and purpose fuel lasting success 15:40 – Joe Fried opens up about his personal evolution toward honesty and vulnerability in and out of the courtroom 28:33 – The panel explores non-lawyer firm ownership, hedge fund influence, and the digital future of law firms 36:54 – Roopal Luhana and Alexander Shunnarah emphasize how client experience and service obsession create long-term loyalty 44:25 – Each panelist shares the worst advice they’ve ever received and what they learned from it Links & Resources: Alexander Shunnarah Trial Attorneys Chaffin Luhana LLP Fried Goldberg LLC Harlan Schillinger Consulting Najee Harris Foundation (Da’ Bigger Picture Foundation) Joey Coleman, Never Lose a Customer Again Trial Lawyers College Crisp Game Changers Summit ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 406. How to Build a Law Firm Culture That Actually Works 372. The Surprising ROI of Doing the Right Thing with Chaffin Luhana 204. Alexander Shunnarah — The Thin Line Between Success and Failure

What if the only thing standing between you and the next level is the courage to take one more risk? In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill and Jessica Mogill confront the real drivers behind success, risk, and sacrifice. As the 2025 Game Changers Summit approaches, they explore why some firm owners seem lucky while others stay stuck, and what it actually means to bet on yourself when the outcome is uncertain. This episode challenges every assumption about safety, comfort, and what it takes to build something truly exceptional. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why the firms that appear lucky are often the ones making the most courageous long-term bets How to break free from herd mentality and stand out in even the most competitive markets What it takes to achieve exceptional results without waiting for perfect timing or permission If you are ready to stop playing it safe, this episode will show you what happens when you finally bet on yourself. ---- 01:52 – How the Game Changers Summit began and grew from 100 to 500 attendees 02:55 – The evolution of the Summit into a members-only, sold-out experience 04:08 – Why keeping speakers secret creates a one-of-a-kind experience for Crisp Coach members 06:25 – Is success really about luck, or is it about courage and risk? 09:59 – The habits and reinvestment mindset that separate nine-figure firms from everyone else 12:45 – Why following the herd keeps your firm invisible in a crowded market 13:31 – How to differentiate and dominate without competing on the same message as everyone else 16:47 – What exceptional results really cost and why most people are not willing to pay the price ---- Links & Resources: Game Changers Summit Crisp Coach Program David Goggins Mercedes-Benz Stadium ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 405. AMMA — What it Takes to 10x Everything 344. Scott Monge. Beyond the Billboards: Crafting a Standout Legal Brand 305. John Morgan — Luck, Hustle, and the Art of Disruption: Building America's Largest Law Firm

Culture isn’t a happy hour or words on a wall. It’s the foundation that determines whether your firm thrives or fractures. As part of the “Road to the Summit”, a special series ramping up to the 2025 Game Changers Summit this November 12-13, we’re revisiting some of the most powerful conversations ever featured at our events. In this encore episode of the Game Changing Attorney Podcast, we take you back to the 2021 EVOLVE Summit. Jessica Mogill sits down with the Game Changing Culture Panel, featuring Reza Torkzadeh, John Martin, David Craig, and Mark O’Mara. Together, they share how intentional leadership, clear communication, and the use of tools like Kolbe and PRINT® have helped them build strong, high-performing cultures within their firms. Here’s what you’ll learn: How intentional leadership creates unity, accountability, and lasting impact How tools like PRINT and Kolbe help firms hire and retain top talent that aligns with their mission How to reduce drama, strengthen communication, and build a culture where everyone thrives Every firm has a culture. The only question is, are you creating it or letting it create itself? ---- Show Notes: 04:30 – How Kolbe and PRINT assessments transformed hiring and communication 07:08 – Learning from cultural misalignment and rebuilding stronger teams 08:48 – Building intentional culture that attracts top talent 10:13 – Using data and assessments to eliminate unnecessary conflict 11:41 – Maintaining culture during rapid growth and remote expansion 14:49 – Creating engagement through shared purpose and community impact 24:52 – Non-negotiables for building a winning firm culture Links & Resources: Kolbe Index PRINT® Assessment Reza Torkzadeh David Craig John Martin Mark O’Mara Crisp Coach Program ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 342. The Missing Piece to Peak Performance with David Kolbe 361. The Hidden Blueprint for Creating a Thriving Work Culture with Josh Nelson 318. Legal Leaders — Game-Changing Insights to Build, Scale, and Transform Your Firm

You can grind your way to $1M, but you’ll never grind your way to $10M. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill break down what it really takes to 10X a law firm. From the early days of sheer hustle to the bold bets that build unforgettable brands, this conversation explores the mindset, courage, and leadership shifts required to make the leap from incremental growth to exponential impact. Here’s what you’ll learn: Why the grind gets you from $0 to $1M, but only leverage and delegation get you to $10M How courage-driven decisions, such as giving away a Tesla or booking a Super Bowl stadium, changed everything The leadership evolution that begins when you stop being the doer and start empowering others to win Exponential growth is not about working harder. It is about thinking bigger and leading differently. ---- 05:17 – The grind that gets you from $0 to $1M and why it will not get you to $10M 07:38 – The shift from doing everything yourself to building leverage through people 11:30 – Why best-known beats best and how bold marketing bets changed everything 15:25 – The courage behind putting the Game Changers Summit in Mercedes-Benz Stadium 20:15 – How the pandemic forced a leadership evolution and shifted focus to helping others win ---- Links & Resources: Give and Take by Adam Grant Shoe Dog by Phil Knight Tesla Mercedes-Benz Stadium  PlayStation ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 403. AMMA — How To Scale Beyond Growth Basics 390. Passion, Process, and Pitmaster Wisdom for Law Firm Leaders with Rodney Scott 382. What It Takes to Build a $100M Legal Business with Chris Dreyer

You don’t deserve to go to the next level until you beat the current one. In this encore episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Eric Siu, entrepreneur, investor, and author of Leveling Up. From esports to business, Eric has turned the lessons of gaming into a powerful framework for growth, resilience, and long-term success. Together, they explore how to reframe pain into fuel, why mindset compounds like interest, and what it truly takes to keep leveling up in life and business. Here’s what you’ll learn: How to turn setbacks and psychological pain into power-ups for growth Why focusing on endurance, grit, and long-term bets separates winners from the rest The mindset shifts that transform gaming lessons into real world business advantages  The ultimate game is not business or gaming. It is learning how to keep leveling up every single day. ---- Show Notes: 02:39 – How gaming built resilience, teamwork, and skills Eric now applies to business 05:45 – Why gaming, Bitcoin, and other trends are dismissed as “toys” before going mainstream 07:10 – The power of community and how EverQuest shaped Eric’s mindset 08:59 – Defining “power ups” and how habits and mental models fuel growth 13:55 – Why patience and endurance are essential for compounding success 20:48 – Building a brand by teaching, sharing, and learning in public 22:49 – How focus beats shiny object syndrome and leads to faster success Links & Resources: Leveling Up: How to Master the Game of Life by Eric Siu Atomic Habits by James Clear Naval Ravikant Warren Buffett Farnam Street – The Knowledge Project Podcast EverQuest and StarCraft ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. —- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 402. How to Hack Your Biology for an Unfair Edge with Dave Asprey 353. How He Trained His Mind to Never Quit — Using Something You’d Never Guess with James Lawrence 332. Cliff Bleszinski — What the Legal Industry Can Learn From the Gaming Industry