Pioneers and Pathfinders

This week, we're joined by Nicole Morris, professor of practice at Emory University School of Law, director of the Innovation and Legal Tech Initiative, and director of the TI:GER program. Nicole has had a fascinating, multifaceted career journey. After working as a chemical engineer for several years, she decided to go to law school. She then became a patent attorney at large and midsize law firms, and later worked in-house. As a professor of practice at Emory, Nicole's focus includes patent law, patent litigation, IP licensing, and strategy. She is director of the school's program Technological Innovation: Generating Economic Results (TI:GER). TI:GER is an innovative program that brings together graduate students in law, business, science, and engineering to work on ways to take innovative ideas from the lab to the marketplace. In our discussion, Nicole talks about her journey from chemical engineering to law, the various elements of TI:GER, and the importance of human skills in the legal profession.

With this episode, we mark the third anniversary of Pioneers and Pathfinders.  Nothing could mark this milestone better than to welcome back a thought leader in the legal profession and legal education, Cat Moon, lecturer and Director of Innovation Design at Vanderbilt University Law School. Since Cat last joined us on the podcast, she has co-founded VAILL, the Vanderbilt AI + Law Lab, which she also co-directs. In this program, she collaborates with professionals across various disciplines to improve legal practice by exploring and experimenting at the intersection of generative AI, legal education, law practice, and access to justice. Today, Cat discusses the resilience of her law students, the challenges ahead for lawyer training, her fascinating work with VAILL, and developing competency in the use of generative AI.

Our guest today is Zack DeMeola, Senior Director of Strategic Initiatives at the Law School Admission Council (LSAC), a not-for-profit organization with the goal of advancing law and justice by promoting access, equity, and fairness in law school admission and supporting learning journeys from prelaw through practice. A former corporate litigation attorney, Zack left practice after several years to join the Institute for the Advancement of the American Legal System (IAALS). There, he led the Foundations for Practice project, the most comprehensive study to date of the skills, competencies, and characteristics new lawyers need, and the Unlocking Legal Regulation Project, where he directed a team of researchers and lawyers to promote a regulatory system that meets the demands of everyday people. From 2020-2023, Zack promoted innovation in the legal profession and in addressing the access to justice crisis as a member of the Governing Council of the ABA Center for Innovation. Today, at LSAC, Zack supports a range of initiatives, from overseeing research into trends affecting current and prospective law students and advocating for a better way to regulate legal education to working with cross-functional teams to design and implement specific programs, learning outcomes, and standards-based assessments in the organization’s educational programs. Zack is also committed to continuous improvement in legal education as a co-chair of the ABA Resources on Outcomes and Assessments Committee. Additionally, he co-founded Access to Justice Ventures with Natalie Anne Knowlton—a past guest on the podcast. In 2023 the ABA Journal named Zack a Legal Rebel for his groundbreaking work creating a holistic way for law students to find where they fit into the profession, including his work with Foundations for Practice. In our wide-ranging discussion, Zack talks about the mission of LSAC, reconsidering the way we educate and test new lawyers, professional identity formation, and how clerking at the Arkansas Supreme Court shaped his career.

This week, we're joined by Maya Markovich, Justice Tech Executive in Residence at Village Capital and co-founder and executive director at the Justice Technology Association. Maya started her career journey in change management consulting for tech, then became a practicing lawyer. Having a deep interest in the possibilities of technology in the legal profession, she went on to work in legal tech product management and product marketing. She later joined Nextlaw Labs and Nextlaw Ventures, founded by Dentons, as Chief Growth Officer. As justice tech executive in residence at Village Capital, Maya works with a broad investor coalition and startup founders to define, support, grow, and fund the justice tech sector. As executive director of the Justice Technology Association, she supports the change-makers who are developing meaningful tech solutions to the A2J crisis. In addition to her work at Village Capital and the Justice Technology Association, Maya is a startup advisor, as well as a consultant for Am Law 50 and midsize law firms, legal departments, alternative legal service providers, investors, and venture funds on tech and innovation. In today's discussion, Maya describes her passion for legal industry innovation and talks about switching from practice to legal tech product management and VC, the common challenges of tech startups, the Justice Technology Association mission, and her core change management principles for successful business transformation.

Ilona Logvinova from McKinsey & Company discusses reimagining legal work with technology, training AI tools, and human-centric legal innovation. She reflects on her journey, challenges of implementing legal tech, and the importance of integrating technology for client-centric innovation.

Sarah Glassmeyer discusses her career transitions, the evolution of librarian roles, and the empowerment through technology. She delves into the shift towards open law and online legal information, overcoming gatekeeping challenges, and the evolution of legal technology for access to justice.

This week, we welcome Victor Li, Assistant Managing Editor at the ABA Journal. After working as the Assistant District Attorney at the Bronx County District Attorney’s Office, Victor decided to explore a new path—one in journalism. For several years, he was a reporter on various legal industry subjects at The American Lawyer and Law Technology News (now known as Legaltech News). He went on to join the ABA Journal as a legal affairs writer, and later took on his current position as Assistant Managing Editor, overseeing the “Business of Law” front-of-book department, which covers legal tech, law firms, marketing, wellness, law schools, and innovation, among many other topics. Additionally, Victor authored the book Nixon in New York: How Wall Street Helped Richard Nixon Win the White House, which was published in 2018. In today’s conversation, Victor discusses how he broke into journalism; writing about Nixon, wellness, and mental health in the legal profession; and the stories he will be focusing on in 2024.

Ashley Carlisle, CMO at HyperDraft, discusses generative AI's impact on legal innovation, streamlining document processes in healthcare, their invite-only platform's approach to client onboarding, AI technology adoption in the legal industry, transitioning from lawyer to entrepreneur, and the influence of generative AI on the legal field.

Our guest this week is a leading voice on the future of legal education and law practice. Andrew Perlman is Dean at Suffolk University Law School, and has been a professor there since 2001. Before entering academia, Dean Perlman was a litigator with a lifelong fascination with innovation and technology. He has served several important functions in the American Bar Association, and was recently appointed to serve on the Advisory Council of the ABA Task Force on the Law and Artificial Intelligence. Dean Perlman has also been involved in various national and local reform efforts—from police practices and access to justice, to developing alternate paths to law school and bar admission. He has served as a member of the Content Scope Committee of the National Conference of Bar Examiners, which helped to identify content for the next generation of the bar exam. Additionally, he has written numerous articles on professional responsibility and legal innovation, and he has served as a presenter or panelist at more than 100 academic, judicial, and other professional programs. Today, Dean Perlman talks about how his passion for innovation started with a Commodore 64, the history and culture of Suffolk, helping law students embrace generative AI, and updating the bar exam.

Today we are joined by Flo Nicolas, a self-described “nonboring lawyer.” Flo is co-founder and chief operating officer at DEI Directive, a technology company helping organizations shape the future of work through inclusive and innovative practices. Flo began her career as legal counsel at various law firms and companies. She then worked in the telecommunications industry for several years. Later, Flo had the opportunity to join How to Contract, a training and development resource for lawyers. There she served as Chief Growth and Community Officer and hosted Contract Tech Showcase, a video series aimed at educating people on legal tech. Flo went on to create two local TV shows, Get Tech Smart and Get Resource Smart, which she also directs, produces, and hosts. These programs shine a light on New Hampshire’s tech startup community and organizations that provide vital resources to residents in need. In 2023, Flo was named one of New Hampshire Business Review’s “Outstanding Women in Business” and won Blaze Group’s Best In Business Award for “Best in Tech & Web3.” In our discussion, Flo talks about what organizations should measure in their DEI initiatives, the ways that law firms can leverage technology to foster diversity, her passion for negotiation, and how she developed her social media skills.