
Rainer on Leadership
Your online home for leadership lessons for both the church and the workplace.
Latest episodes

Jun 12, 2025 • 24min
What Should I Do After Getting Fired from a Church?
One of the most challenging parts of ministry is the rejection of getting fired by a church. Josh and Sam discuss the immediate next steps pastors can take to begin the healing process.
Was the action by the church warranted? If so, seek the spiritual and emotional help you need.
If the action was not warranted (most cases are not), you should still talk to a professional counselor, mentors, and friends.
Don’t be afraid to ask for a large severance if you have the opportunity.
You will discover your true friends through the ordeal. Others will keep their distance.
For many, starting a search process immediately is best. Pray to God, network with decision-makers, and apply to several open positions.
For others, you may need to pause from ministry and re-evaluate God’s path.
Consider the interim an opportunity to change your geography or your position.
Now is the time to ask for favors and call everyone in your network.
Don’t be afraid to tell people exactly what happened. Far more pastors have been through this situation than you realize.
Resources:
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Churchteams
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
Church Answers Central
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
You’ve been in ministry long enough to spot both the obstacles and the opportunities facing your congregation.
There must be solutions, but how do you find them?
If you are the ministry leader called to champion these issues, Southern Seminary has a problem-solving degree that will guide you to the answers.
From the moment you begin your doctor of ministry program at Southern, you will research the issues and start writing about the biblical solutions that will immediately benefit your church.
The academic sharpening that comes through your faculty supervisor and doctoral cohorts will strengthen both you and your church.
Learn how Southern’s DMin can be an extension of your current ministry, not a distraction from it.
The DMin at Southern Seminary will equip you to solve a problem or harness a ministry opportunity that will strengthen you and your church. Learn how at SBTS.edu/solutions.
You see the need for systems to follow up on guests, volunteers, pastoral care; but right now that is really sporadic and siloed. Each person doing their own thing and people falling through the cracks. Churchteams will help you build and implement the system you need.
Tired of not being able to get the help you need for your software? Churchteams support staff have all served on Church staff. They know the software and they know how churches work. Call, text, set up free support appointments.
Integrated. How many different software systems are you using that require sharing people’s data? If 2 or more, you know the challenge and limitations of data in different systems that don’t play well together. Churchteams has all your people data in one place, including your communication data (email, texts, workflows).
Ease of use. Do you feel like you should be getting more from your church software, but just can’t get people to use it? Churchteams makes it easy for guests, members, volunteers, and leaders to do everything they need to do including giving without having to create an account. Check it out to learn how.
Reports. Are you getting the feedback on your ministry that you need from your database when you need it? Churchteams reports are extremely customizable. Let each staff save the ones they use on their dashboard. Or, schedule it to show up in their inbox.
Learn more at Churchteams.
The post What Should I Do After Getting Fired from a Church? appeared first on Church Answers.

Jun 9, 2025 • 25min
Four Common Reasons Most Churches Aren’t Breakout Churches
What stops a church from having a breakout? Thom and Sam discuss four primary reasons they often see in their consultations and research.
Lack of leadership development. Most pastors have little training or background in leadership. But they are expected to lead a church. Some may have extensive theological and biblical training, but they are weak in leadership. Aaron had to tell Moses that his leadership approach was all wrong. Moses was headed for a leadership disaster.
Unbiblical understanding of church membership. Basically, an unbiblical understanding of church membership is self-centered. Members have an attitude that the church exists for “me” and “my” preferences.
Unclear purpose. Though it may seem counterintuitive, many church members do not know the clear purpose or purposes of their church.
Lack of outward focus. The church does not have an ongoing evangelism emphasis, and, as a result, the culture of the church moves inward.
Resources:
Upward Running
NLT Large Print Pew Bible
Church Connect
Tyndale House Publishers
Church Growth Services: Get your free campaign capacity analysis!
“Breakout Churches” by Thom S. Rainer (affiliate link)
“High Expectations: The Remarkable Secret for Keeping People in Your Church” by Thom S. Rainer (affiliate link)
“Simple Church: Returning to God’s Process for Making Disciples” by Thom S. Rainer and Eric Geiger (affiliate link)
Invite Your One
Church Answers Silver Membership
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
Introducing Upward Running! Upward Sports’ first step into adult sports is here — and running has never been easier to get “up and running.”
Offer a 5K Challenge: Inspire your congregation and engage your community with a meaningful running ministry. Upward provides:
Tailored training plans to help your runner or walkers move from the couch to completing a 5k.
Access to the new RunClub app for tracking progress and building community.
A fully customizable program that fits your church’s timeline — all led by your run coach who will be fully equipped with the Upward Running materials to lead.
Simple to Start: With just one passionate leader and no facility needed, your church parking lot can become the starting line for life transformation.
Build Stronger Connections: Use running to foster relationships, promote healthy habits, and grow spiritually while expanding your church’s impact.
Upward is Here for You: Ready to bring Upward Running to your church? Visit Upward.org/Runcoach to get started today!
Pastors, if you are looking for the perfect pew Bible to serve your congregation, the NLT Large Print Pew Bible is a fantastic choice!
With its easy-to-read 10.25 point font, even seniors and young readers will follow along comfortably.
It’s durable, affordable, and beautifully crafted—ideal for use in worship.
And because it is the New Living Translation, your congregation will hear an accurate, understandable, and audibly enjoyable reading of Scripture that speaks to the heart, enriches understanding, and transforms lives—perfect for sermons, public reading, and personal reflection.
Upgrade your pew Bibles today.
Learn more and find bulk discounts for churches at Church Connect.
The post Four Common Reasons Most Churches Aren’t Breakout Churches appeared first on Church Answers.

Jun 5, 2025 • 27min
Five Key Tips to Teach Your Church to Tithe
This discussion dives into the intriguing world of church tithing, addressing the striking statistic that only 50% of members typically give. The hosts offer creative strategies to cultivate generosity, including sharing success stories and integrating 'giving moments' in services. They also highlight the importance of transparency and communication about the church's mission. Additionally, they explore a range of giving options, like online platforms, and emphasize the need to engage the next generation in a culture of giving.

Jun 2, 2025 • 27min
Eight Causes for a Ministry Slump
No church grows week after week and year after year. Additionally, our spiritual growth has highs and lows. A slump is inevitable in churches and people. Thom and Sam discuss some causes of a ministry slump and what you can do to stop the slide.
Failure to spend time in the Word and the Bible. “Anytime I neglect my personal quiet time, my ministry becomes less effective. You would think I would have learned that lesson by now.”
The cumulative effect of criticisms. “You know, the critics just wear me down. I’ve been at the church for a little over three years, and I am feeling the weight of a steady drip of criticisms.”
Unfulfilled expectations. “I shouldn’t be so numbers’ conscious, but I am. When our attendance or budget goes down for a period, I tend to get down as well.”
Family problems. “My son rebelled for over two years. It impacted all parts of my life, including my ministry.”
Financial problems. “We were having trouble paying our bills. My mind was on that issue every day at the church. I know it hurt my ministry.”
Physical burnout. “I was burning the candle at both ends, and I gained a lot of weight. My body was rebelling, and my emotions took a nosedive. It really affected my ministry.”
Counseling. “I really shouldn’t do as much counseling as I do. I get drained emotionally listening to so many problems. I notice that my slumps always follow several weeks of heavy counseling.”
Comparisons. “We all know that we shouldn’t compare ourselves to others in ministry. But I do. And when I do, I feel so inadequate as a pastor and a leader.”
Resources:
NLT Large Print Pew Bible
Church Connect
Tyndale House Publishers
Upward Sports
Upward Sports: Pickleball
Brown Church Development Group
“The Shape of Faith to Come” by Brad Waggoner (affiliate link)
Church Answers Platinum Membership
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
Pastors, if you are looking for the perfect pew Bible to serve your congregation, the NLT Large Print Pew Bible is a fantastic choice!
With its easy-to-read 10.25 point font, even seniors and young readers will follow along comfortably.
It’s durable, affordable, and beautifully crafted—ideal for use in worship.
And because it is the New Living Translation, your congregation will hear an accurate, understandable, and audibly enjoyable reading of Scripture that speaks to the heart, enriches understanding, and transforms lives—perfect for sermons, public reading, and personal reflection.
Upgrade your pew Bibles today.
Learn more and find bulk discounts for churches at Church Connect.
The Power of Partnership
Upward Sports is the world’s largest Christian youth sports organization, empowering local churches to use sports as a dynamic connection tool to engage their communities.
A Variety of Sports for Every Church
From basketball, cheerleading, soccer, flag football, volleyball, and baseball to running for adults — and now pickleball — Upward Sports offers flexible league options to fit your church’s unique needs.
Exciting News: Pickleball Has Arrived!
Launched in April, pickleball is perfect for middle and high schoolers — easy to learn, quick to set up, and highly engaging. Whether you prefer a traditional league or a flexible practice-and-play format, Upward Sports is here to guide you. Plus, to help you get started, Upward is offering two free Pickleball Net Sets when you create your league. But act fast — only 200 sets are available! Schedule your call today and build a purposeful pickleball ministry in your community. Learn more at www.Upward.org/Pickleball where you can access an equipment list, court dimensions, and more.
Be the Neighborhood Church
Want to create a welcoming space for families? Upward Sports provides a first-class, well-organized, and fun league experience. As a self-sustaining ministry, any church — big or small — can get started. Customize your outreach ministry today.
Get Ahead for Fall Sports
Looking ahead to the fall season? Create an outreach strategy that includes a warm invite for the whole family – Use sports as that invite. Whether it’s soccer, flag football, cheerleading, volleyball, baseball or pickleball, Upward Sports is ready to support your church in reaching families right in the heart of your community. All you need is access to a gym or field and one passionate leader and Upward will support you with the rest.
Learn more at www.Upward.org/ChurchAnswers.
The post Eight Causes for a Ministry Slump appeared first on Church Answers.

May 29, 2025 • 31min
Is There Any Hope for Revitalizing Mainline Churches?
The long, slow death of mainline churches is well documented and goes back to the 1970s. In the mid-twentieth century, approximately half of all Americans were identified as members of one of the seven mainline denominations. Today, it’s between 10% and 15%. Not much is said about revitalizing these churches, but there is hope. Josh and Sam interview one mainline Methodist elder, Chad Brooks, who has a plan to solve this problem.
What is your view of the “mainline decline,” and how does it inform your strategies today?
How aware are church members of the pervasiveness of the problem?
What makes revitalization different in the UMC than in other denominations?
What gives you hope for the churches you serve?
Resources:
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Churchteams
Rev. Chad Brooks
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
Church Answers Central
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
You’ve been in ministry long enough to spot both the obstacles and the opportunities facing your congregation.
There must be solutions, but how do you find them?
If you are the ministry leader called to champion these issues, Southern Seminary has a problem-solving degree that will guide you to the answers.
From the moment you begin your doctor of ministry program at Southern, you will research the issues and start writing about the biblical solutions that will immediately benefit your church.
The academic sharpening that comes through your faculty supervisor and doctoral cohorts will strengthen both you and your church.
Learn how Southern’s DMin can be an extension of your current ministry, not a distraction from it.
The DMin at Southern Seminary will equip you to solve a problem or harness a ministry opportunity that will strengthen you and your church. Learn how at SBTS.edu/solutions.
You see the need for systems to follow up on guests, volunteers, pastoral care; but right now that is really sporadic and siloed. Each person doing their own thing and people falling through the cracks. Churchteams will help you build and implement the system you need.
Tired of not being able to get the help you need for your software? Churchteams support staff have all served on Church staff. They know the software and they know how churches work. Call, text, set up free support appointments.
Integrated. How many different software systems are you using that require sharing people’s data? If 2 or more, you know the challenge and limitations of data in different systems that don’t play well together. Churchteams has all your people data in one place, including your communication data (email, texts, workflows).
Ease of use. Do you feel like you should be getting more from your church software, but just can’t get people to use it? Churchteams makes it easy for guests, members, volunteers, and leaders to do everything they need to do including giving without having to create an account. Check it out to learn how.
Reports. Are you getting the feedback on your ministry that you need from your database when you need it? Churchteams reports are extremely customizable. Let each staff save the ones they use on their dashboard. Or, schedule it to show up in their inbox.
Learn more at Churchteams.
The post Is There Any Hope for Revitalizing Mainline Churches? appeared first on Church Answers.

May 26, 2025 • 29min
The Burge Report: Why Are Non-Denominational Churches Growing?
Ryan Burge, a data expert and political scientist, sheds light on the remarkable rise of non-denominational churches in the U.S. He discusses how growing distrust in institutions contrasts with higher interpersonal trust among these congregations. Burge highlights transfer growth from mainline churches and the influence of immigration, particularly from Latin American Catholics, on this trend. Listeners gain insights into how these churches foster community integration and provide valuable support networks, reshaping the American religious landscape.

May 22, 2025 • 23min
Are Church Members Cussing More Today Than in the Past?
The co-hosts have noticed something—it seems church members are cussing more these days. But are their anecdotal experiences supported by data? Josh and Sam talk about the expletive problem in churches today.
All evidence suggests cuss words are far more common today than in the past.
Studies on transcripts and books point to an 80% increase in the use of expletives in culture.
Is it a problem in the church? Should pastors care? Aren’t there bigger issues?
How should you handle someone who cusses in front of you?
At what point should you correct someone?
Resources:
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Churchteams
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
Church Answers Central
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
You’ve been in ministry long enough to spot both the obstacles and the opportunities facing your congregation.
There must be solutions, but how do you find them?
If you are the ministry leader called to champion these issues, Southern Seminary has a problem-solving degree that will guide you to the answers.
From the moment you begin your doctor of ministry program at Southern, you will research the issues and start writing about the biblical solutions that will immediately benefit your church.
The academic sharpening that comes through your faculty supervisor and doctoral cohorts will strengthen both you and your church.
Learn how Southern’s DMin can be an extension of your current ministry, not a distraction from it.
The DMin at Southern Seminary will equip you to solve a problem or harness a ministry opportunity that will strengthen you and your church. Learn how at SBTS.edu/solutions.
You see the need for systems to follow up on guests, volunteers, pastoral care; but right now that is really sporadic and siloed. Each person doing their own thing and people falling through the cracks. Churchteams will help you build and implement the system you need.
Tired of not being able to get the help you need for your software? Churchteams support staff have all served on Church staff. They know the software and they know how churches work. Call, text, set up free support appointments.
Integrated. How many different software systems are you using that require sharing people’s data? If 2 or more, you know the challenge and limitations of data in different systems that don’t play well together. Churchteams has all your people data in one place, including your communication data (email, texts, workflows).
Ease of use. Do you feel like you should be getting more from your church software, but just can’t get people to use it? Churchteams makes it easy for guests, members, volunteers, and leaders to do everything they need to do including giving without having to create an account. Check it out to learn how.
Reports. Are you getting the feedback on your ministry that you need from your database when you need it? Churchteams reports are extremely customizable. Let each staff save the ones they use on their dashboard. Or, schedule it to show up in their inbox.
Learn more at Churchteams.
The post Are Church Members Cussing More Today Than in the Past? appeared first on Church Answers.

May 19, 2025 • 22min
Five Reasons Healthy Churches Seek Outside Help
Churches can struggle with seeking outside help, even when it’s obvious they need it. Thom and Sam discuss why healthy churches often have outsiders speak into the operations of the church.
Healthy churches understand that God’s Kingdom is larger than their particular church. They grasp that they can and will gain valuable insights that they would not have otherwise.
Healthy churches understand that leadership development is key to their ongoing health. Thus, they are more likely to send church members to external events for that development.
Healthy churches desire to benefit from skilled experts in a very specific area that might not otherwise be available in their own churches.
Healthy churches avoid “ruts.” Training, consultations, and conferences offer fresh ideas and approaches. They are no longer bound by “the way they’ve always done it.”
Healthy churches have members who are more open-minded to new ideas and approaches without theological and biblical compromise.
Resources:
Rooted
Upward Sports
Church Growth Services: Get your free campaign capacity analysis!
Church Answers Platinum Membership
Comprehensive Church Consultation
My Church Staff
Know Your Community
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
The Rooted experience can help you create a discipleship culture that connects your people and leads to ongoing life change in Jesus. Rooted is…
A proven plan for helping people connect to God, their church, and their purpose
A sustainable way to launch groups
An approach to discipleship that helps people step out of their comfort zones and experience life-changing rhythms of discipleship
An opportunity to change the culture of your church
Visit experiencerooted.com/churchanswers for free resources to help you learn more, including the What is Rooted? video and a free download of the Rooted experience framework and Rooted Workbook sample.
Upward Sports is the world’s largest Christian youth sports organization, partnering with local churches to use sports as a powerful outreach tool to engage the community.
To remind our listeners, Upward offers a variety of league options, including basketball, cheerleading, soccer, flag football, volleyball, baseball, running for adults, and now, pickleball.
Partnering with Upward Sports helps your church reach the community, attract young families, and share the Gospel in a meaningful way.
Is your church striving to be known as a welcoming space where families come together? Sports can naturally become your invitation. Upward Sports understands this and is ready to help you cultivate that atmosphere.
Exciting news from Upward Sports! Pickleball is now available as an Upward sport! Perfect for middle and high schoolers, pickleball is easy to learn, quick to set up, and one of the best ways to keep kids engaged. Whether you’re looking to start a traditional league or a flexible practice-and-play format, Upward Sports is here to help you build a strategy that fits your church. Ready to get started? Schedule a call today and launch a purposeful pickleball ministry in your community!
At Upward, they will customize your sports outreach strategy to fit your church’s budget, and community needs because we know one size doesn’t fit all.
Already have a thriving outreach ministry? Add sports to further fuel your outreach and connect with even more families.
Are you looking to engage new families, bless your community, or mobilize your congregation to serve? Whether you have a gym, field space, or access to a facility, Upward Sports can help. We’re here to support your church in creating a first-class, organized, and intentional outreach ministry that tells families, “You are welcome here!”
Whether you’re expanding an existing sports ministry or starting from scratch, explore Upward Sports. With a trusted history of partnering with over 5,000 churches nationwide, Upward stands ready to support you.
Schedule your call today at www.Upward.org/ChurchAnswers.
The post Five Reasons Healthy Churches Seek Outside Help appeared first on Church Answers.

May 15, 2025 • 27min
Why Some Pastors Never Experience Church Growth
Very few churches are growing, which means most pastors will lead plateaued or declining congregations. Some pastors experience an entire ministry career in no-growth situations. Why does this happen? Josh and Sam discuss several reasons why some pastors never experience church growth.
Some pastors are called to difficult churches and are there simply to stop the bleeding.
Some pastors are not evangelistic and do not change the culture of their churches.
Some pastors are gifted with mediation and stay at churches for a short time to prevent splits.
Some pastors shepherd in communities where people are less receptive.
Some pastors are able to replace older, dying members with families. These churches get significantly younger but do not increase in number.
Resources:
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Churchteams
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
Church Answers Central
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
You’ve been in ministry long enough to spot both the obstacles and the opportunities facing your congregation.
There must be solutions, but how do you find them?
If you are the ministry leader called to champion these issues, Southern Seminary has a problem-solving degree that will guide you to the answers.
From the moment you begin your doctor of ministry program at Southern, you will research the issues and start writing about the biblical solutions that will immediately benefit your church.
The academic sharpening that comes through your faculty supervisor and doctoral cohorts will strengthen both you and your church.
Learn how Southern’s DMin can be an extension of your current ministry, not a distraction from it.
The DMin at Southern Seminary will equip you to solve a problem or harness a ministry opportunity that will strengthen you and your church. Learn how at SBTS.edu/solutions.
You see the need for systems to follow up on guests, volunteers, pastoral care; but right now that is really sporadic and siloed. Each person doing their own thing and people falling through the cracks. Churchteams will help you build and implement the system you need.
Tired of not being able to get the help you need for your software? Churchteams support staff have all served on Church staff. They know the software and they know how churches work. Call, text, set up free support appointments.
Integrated. How many different software systems are you using that require sharing people’s data? If 2 or more, you know the challenge and limitations of data in different systems that don’t play well together. Churchteams has all your people data in one place, including your communication data (email, texts, workflows).
Ease of use. Do you feel like you should be getting more from your church software, but just can’t get people to use it? Churchteams makes it easy for guests, members, volunteers, and leaders to do everything they need to do including giving without having to create an account. Check it out to learn how.
Reports. Are you getting the feedback on your ministry that you need from your database when you need it? Churchteams reports are extremely customizable. Let each staff save the ones they use on their dashboard. Or, schedule it to show up in their inbox.
Learn more at Churchteams.
The post Why Some Pastors Never Experience Church Growth appeared first on Church Answers.

May 12, 2025 • 26min
What Is the Right Age to Retire as a Lead Pastor?
The average age of a pastor is 60 years old. The question of retirement is one many pastors are asking. Being a lead pastor comes with unique demands and extra attention. Is there an ideal age to retire? Thom and Sam discuss some guidelines for those who are closer to retirement than not.
The strength of your voice (and body) is a factor.
It’s unwise to hang on for several years for financial reasons. Go do something else.
A clear succession plan tends to give you a better final season at a church.
The belief your church “needs” you will often hurt the congregation more than you realize.
Can you keep up with technology and the new requirements of ministry?
The retirement age range for most is between 62 and 72 years old.
An interim or revitalization ministry is a solid option.
Resources:
Rooted
Upward Running
Brown Church Development Group
“The Long-Term Impact of COVID-19 on Worship Attendance (The Real Numbers!)” by Ryan Burge
Church Revitalization Certification
Interim Pastor Certification
25 Best Christian Leadership Podcasts
100 Best Leadership Podcasts
FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights
Church Answers Central
The Hope Initiative
Episode Sponsors:
Introducing Upward Running! We’re excited to bring you Upward Running for adults—the newest addition to the Upward Sports family.
Offer a 5K Challenge: Inspire your congregation and engage your community with a meaningful running ministry. Upward provides training plans, access to the new RunClub app for run tracking and community building, and a fully customizable package to fit your timeline—led by your dedicated run coach.
Simple to Start: All you need is one passionate leader. No facility required—your church parking lot is all it takes to launch this impactful program.
Build Stronger Connections: Use running as a way to foster relationships, promote healthy habits, grow spiritually, and expand your church’s outreach.
Upward is Here for You: Ready to bring Upward Running to your church? Visit Upward.org/Runcoach to get started today!
The Rooted experience can help you create a discipleship culture that connects your people and leads to ongoing life change in Jesus. Rooted is…
A proven plan for helping people connect to God, their church, and their purpose
A sustainable way to launch groups
An approach to discipleship that helps people step out of their comfort zones and experience life-changing rhythms of discipleship
An opportunity to change the culture of your church
Visit experiencerooted.com/churchanswers for free resources to help you learn more, including the What is Rooted? video and a free download of the Rooted experience framework and Rooted Workbook sample.
The post What Is the Right Age to Retire as a Lead Pastor? appeared first on Church Answers.