Rainer on Leadership

Thom Rainer
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Jul 28, 2025 • 32min

The Burge Report: Is Gen Z More Religiously Engaged than Their Parents?

New religious data in the United States was released recently, and Ryan Burge joins the show with Sam to discuss the details. In 2024, Gen Z showed relatively strong religious attendance compared to other generations. Twenty-four percent of Gen Z reported attending religious services weekly—two percentage points higher than both Millennials and Gen X. While 53% of Gen Z attend less than once a year, that’s actually the lowest percentage of infrequent attenders among all the generations analyzed. What factors might be contributing to Gen Z’s higher weekly religious attendance compared to Millennials and Gen X? How should churches and faith communities respond to the fact that Gen Z has the lowest percentage of people attending less than once a year? Does Gen Z’s relatively strong attendance indicate a deeper spiritual engagement, or are other motivations at play (e.g., community, tradition, social influence)? Resources: Upward Sports Upward Sports: Pickleball Rooted “Religion in 2024: The Plateau Is Real” by Ryan Burge Ryan Burge Rainer on Leadership Podcast: “Five Predictions We Got Wrong about the Future of the Church” Church Answers Platinum Membership FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights The Hope Initiative Episode Sponsors: The Power of Partnership Upward Sports is the world’s largest Christian youth sports organization, empowering local churches to use sports as a dynamic connection tool to engage their communities. A Variety of Sports for Every Church From basketball, cheerleading, soccer, flag football, volleyball, and baseball to running for adults — and now pickleball — Upward Sports offers flexible league options to fit your church’s unique needs. Exciting News: Pickleball Has Arrived! Launched in April, pickleball is perfect for middle and high schoolers — easy to learn, quick to set up, and highly engaging. Whether you prefer a traditional league or a flexible practice-and-play format, Upward Sports is here to guide you. Plus, to help you get started, Upward is offering two free Pickleball Net Sets when you create your league. But act fast — only 200 sets are available! Schedule your call today and build a purposeful pickleball ministry in your community. Learn more at www.Upward.org/Pickleball where you can access an equipment list, court dimensions, and more. Be the Neighborhood Church Want to create a welcoming space for families? Upward Sports provides a first-class, well-organized, and fun league experience. As a self-sustaining ministry, any church — big or small — can get started. Customize your outreach ministry today. Get Ahead for Fall Sports Looking ahead to the fall season? Create an outreach strategy that includes a warm invite for the whole family – Use sports as that invite. Whether it’s soccer, flag football, cheerleading, volleyball, baseball or pickleball, Upward Sports is ready to support your church in reaching families right in the heart of your community. All you need is access to a gym or field and one passionate leader and Upward will support you with the rest. Learn more at www.Upward.org/ChurchAnswers.     The Rooted experience can help you create a discipleship culture that connects your people and leads to ongoing life change in Jesus. Rooted is… A proven plan for helping people connect to God, their church, and their purpose A sustainable way to launch groups An approach to discipleship that helps people step out of their comfort zones and experience life-changing rhythms of discipleship An opportunity to change the culture of your church Visit experiencerooted.com/churchanswers for free resources to help you learn more, including the What is Rooted? video and a free download of the Rooted experience framework and Rooted Workbook sample. The post The Burge Report: Is Gen Z More Religiously Engaged than Their Parents? appeared first on Church Answers.
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Jul 24, 2025 • 30min

The Limits of Pastoral Care: When Counseling Isn’t Appropriate

Pastors provide spiritual guidance, but there are times when counseling crosses into territory best handled by trained professionals. In this episode, Josh and Sam explore the limits of pastoral care—when ethical, legal, and practical concerns make it necessary to refer someone elsewhere. From mental health crises to marital conflicts beyond a pastor’s expertise, knowing when to step back is crucial for both the pastor and the person seeking help. We’ll discuss red flags, healthy boundaries, and how pastors can support without overstepping. Substance abuse and addiction Children, teens, and other vulnerable people Meeting with one spouse with marital troubles Reporting crimes and other abusive situations People who use regular counseling to feel better without getting better Conflict of interest with church employees Resources: The Revitalization at Shadowbrook Church Doctor of Educational Ministry, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Church Answers Certifications FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights Church Answers Central The Hope Initiative Episode Sponsors: Shadowbrook Church members in Suwanee, Georgia, have rediscovered their first love–serving Christ and loving others.  But during Jerrod Rumley’s first two years as pastor, he was shepherding a divided congregation.  A small number of members seemed better suited for sharing gossip than the gospel. Older and younger members had relegated the Great Commission to the church staff.  Gen-Xers were comfortable in a congregation that placed few demands upon them.  Others were busy meeting community needs–yet seldom shared the gospel. Rumley needed guidance to unify his splintered congregation.  He knew exactly where to turn. Go to SBTS.edu/Unified to read about the steps Shadowbrook’s pastor took to erase barriers and revive the church’s passion for evangelism and discipleship.  Those same steps are available to you, and it begins at SBTS.edu/Unified.   Certifications to Take Your Ministry and Leadership Skills to the Next Level If you’re passionate about seeing churches make a kingdom impact, or you are passionate about churches transitioning well from pastor to pastor, this program is for you. We provide all the training you need with our self-paced video training modules. Learn more about certifications. The post The Limits of Pastoral Care: When Counseling Isn’t Appropriate appeared first on Church Answers.
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Jul 21, 2025 • 31min

The Top 5 Legal Issues Churches Face Today

Ryan June, a lawyer at Castañeda + Heidelman LLP specializing in church legal issues, shares vital insights for church leadership. He emphasizes the importance of child protection policies as a primary defense against liability. Listeners learn about keeping property deeds updated and adhering to labor laws for staff and volunteers. Ryan stresses the necessity of reviewing bylaws regularly and the complexities of intellectual property within church contexts. This engaging conversation equips church leaders with knowledge to navigate legal challenges effectively.
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Jul 17, 2025 • 24min

Ten Quiet Disrupters in American Church Life (Part 2)

Explore the unseen shifts in American church communities, from the mobility of younger families to the rising awareness of mental health issues. Discover how advancements in accessible theological education empower pastors and reshape ministry practices. Delve into the impact of decentralized media on church communication and the humorous generational gaps in tech usage. Finally, learn about innovative programs like customizable 5K runs that strengthen church-community ties and engage members in unique ways.
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Jul 14, 2025 • 22min

Ten Quiet Disrupters in American Church Life (Part 1)

Local church life is facing intriguing 'quiet disruptors' that often go unnoticed. The hosts dive into the shifting expectations of spiritual authority and how personal faith is becoming more intertwined with community life. They highlight how digital natives are redefining connection and the rise of micro-communities. Additionally, they discuss the evolving donation dynamics in the digital age, showcasing how churches adapt in response to change. Plus, pickleball is introduced as a fresh way to foster community engagement.
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Jul 10, 2025 • 24min

What Young Families Really Want in a Church

Most every church desires to grow with young families. But what do they look for in a church? Josh and Sam discuss a few key ways to attract and retain families with children. An indicator of health: 25% of Sunday morning attendance should be 18 and under. An indicator of investment: The children’s and student ministry budgets should be more than the worship ministry budget. Clear policies and procedures that prioritize child safety. Family-friendly service start times (9:30 or 10:00 a.m.) and service length (one hour). Age-segmented discipleship programs for children, students, and adults. Full programming for the entire family. Worship styles, preaching philosophy, and specific programs can be important to some but are less important overall. Resources: The Revitalization at Shadowbrook Church Doctor of Educational Ministry, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Churchteams Church Answers Certifications FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights Church Answers Central The Hope Initiative Episode Sponsors: Shadowbrook Church members in Suwanee, Georgia, have rediscovered their first love–serving Christ and loving others.  But during Jerrod Rumley’s first two years as pastor, he was shepherding a divided congregation.  A small number of members seemed better suited for sharing gossip than the gospel. Older and younger members had relegated the Great Commission to the church staff.  Gen-Xers were comfortable in a congregation that placed few demands upon them.  Others were busy meeting community needs–yet seldom shared the gospel. Rumley needed guidance to unify his splintered congregation.  He knew exactly where to turn. Go to SBTS.edu/Unified to read about the steps Shadowbrook’s pastor took to erase barriers and revive the church’s passion for evangelism and discipleship.  Those same steps are available to you, and it begins at SBTS.edu/Unified.   You see the need for systems to follow up on guests, volunteers, pastoral care; but right now that is really sporadic and siloed. Each person doing their own thing and people falling through the cracks. Churchteams will help you build and implement the system you need. Tired of not being able to get the help you need for your software? Churchteams support staff have all served on Church staff. They know the software and they know how churches work. Call, text, set up free support appointments. Integrated. How many different software systems are you using that require sharing people’s data? If 2 or more, you know the challenge and limitations of data in different systems that don’t play well together. Churchteams has all your people data in one place, including your communication data (email, texts, workflows). Ease of use. Do you feel like you should be getting more from your church software, but just can’t get people to use it? Churchteams makes it easy for guests, members, volunteers, and leaders to do everything they need to do including giving without having to create an account. Check it out to learn how. Reports. Are you getting the feedback on your ministry that you need from your database when you need it? Churchteams reports are extremely customizable. Let each staff save the ones they use on their dashboard. Or, schedule it to show up in their inbox. Learn more at Churchteams. The post What Young Families Really Want in a Church appeared first on Church Answers.
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Jul 7, 2025 • 25min

Seven Occasions When You Should Not Hire More Church Staff

Adding church staff isn't always beneficial. Learn when it can take ministry away from the laity or when a hire is driven by outdated practices. Financial considerations and personal connections can complicate decision-making. Beware of hiring due to personal friendships or copying other churches. Evaluating current staff effectiveness is crucial, especially in large congregations where complexity can lead to inefficiency. This insightful discussion offers guidance on mission-focused staffing decisions.
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Jul 3, 2025 • 27min

How Much Money Should a Pastor Make?

A pastor’s salary is determined by several factors, including church size and budget, geographic location, cost of living, education, experience, and responsibilities. While there is no universal answer, Josh and Sam discuss general guidelines and what pastors should expect from their churches. Remember, everything is negotiable on the front end. Don’t go to a church and negotiate after you accept the position. Some denominations are known to pay better than others. Most pastors are underpaid, but few get paid far too much. The median household income of a community is typically not where pastors should be given their experience, education, and responsibilities. A small school superintendent is a better comparison point for a full-time pastor at a mid-size to large church. Rent x 3 is a good rule of thumb. For churches with budgets between $600,000 and $2,000,000, 10% of the income received is typical for a compensation package of a lead pastor. Remember, you must consider salary, housing, benefits, and social security exemption. Should churches pay for half of FICA if a pastor has opted into social security? Many churches do not realize that Section 3121(b)(8)(A) prevents them from withholding Social Security and Medicare taxes (FICA) from a minister’s wages. Instead, ministers are responsible for paying Self-Employment Contributions Act (SECA) tax on their salary and housing allowance—unless they have obtained an approved exemption. Resources: The Revitalization at Shadowbrook Church Doctor of Educational Ministry, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Churchteams Church Answers Certifications FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights Church Answers Central The Hope Initiative Episode Sponsors: Shadowbrook Church members in Suwanee, Georgia, have rediscovered their first love–serving Christ and loving others.  But during Jerrod Rumley’s first two years as pastor, he was shepherding a divided congregation.  A small number of members seemed better suited for sharing gossip than the gospel. Older and younger members had relegated the Great Commission to the church staff.  Gen-Xers were comfortable in a congregation that placed few demands upon them.  Others were busy meeting community needs–yet seldom shared the gospel. Rumley needed guidance to unify his splintered congregation.  He knew exactly where to turn. Go to SBTS.edu/Unified to read about the steps Shadowbrook’s pastor took to erase barriers and revive the church’s passion for evangelism and discipleship.  Those same steps are available to you, and it begins at SBTS.edu/Unified.   You see the need for systems to follow up on guests, volunteers, pastoral care; but right now that is really sporadic and siloed. Each person doing their own thing and people falling through the cracks. Churchteams will help you build and implement the system you need. Tired of not being able to get the help you need for your software? Churchteams support staff have all served on Church staff. They know the software and they know how churches work. Call, text, set up free support appointments. Integrated. How many different software systems are you using that require sharing people’s data? If 2 or more, you know the challenge and limitations of data in different systems that don’t play well together. Churchteams has all your people data in one place, including your communication data (email, texts, workflows). Ease of use. Do you feel like you should be getting more from your church software, but just can’t get people to use it? Churchteams makes it easy for guests, members, volunteers, and leaders to do everything they need to do including giving without having to create an account. Check it out to learn how. Reports. Are you getting the feedback on your ministry that you need from your database when you need it? Churchteams reports are extremely customizable. Let each staff save the ones they use on their dashboard. Or, schedule it to show up in their inbox. Learn more at Churchteams. The post How Much Money Should a Pastor Make? appeared first on Church Answers.
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Jun 30, 2025 • 32min

The Burge Report: Are Religious People More Prone to Conspiracy Theories?

Both prophets and conspiracy theorists cater to the human desire to make sense of chaos. This connection sparks compelling questions: Do religious belief and conspiracy thinking go hand in hand, as both involve leaps of imagination? Or does a strong religious framework offer enough structure, reducing the need for conspiracy theories? Ryan Burge joins the show to discuss what the hard data reveals. Non-religious people are slightly less inclined toward conspiracy theories. Those who attend church weekly are also less inclined toward conspiracy theories. The quasi-religious (attending church occasionally) are more prone to conspiracy theories. Overall, being politically conservative had no impact at all on belief in conspiracy theories. However, for those who don’t have a strong religious belief, being more conservative drives up conspiratorial thinking. Holding to Christian Nationalist views drives up the belief in conspiracy theories. Political ideology is more influential on holding to conspiracy theories than religious beliefs. Resources: NLT Large Print Pew Bible Church Connect Tyndale House Publishers Upward Sports Upward Sports: Pickleball Ryan Burge “Trust the Plan – Does Religion Drive Conspiratorial Thinking?” by Ryan Burge “Leviathan” by Thomas Hobbes (affiliate link) “Original Sin: President Biden’s Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again” by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson (affiliate link) Church Answers Platinum Membership FREE Research Report! New Surprising Insights The Hope Initiative Episode Sponsors: Pastors, if you are looking for the perfect pew Bible to serve your congregation, the NLT Large Print Pew Bible is a fantastic choice! With its easy-to-read 10.25 point font, even seniors and young readers will follow along comfortably. It’s durable, affordable, and beautifully crafted—ideal for use in worship. And because it is the New Living Translation, your congregation will hear an accurate, understandable, and audibly enjoyable reading of Scripture that speaks to the heart, enriches understanding, and transforms lives—perfect for sermons, public reading, and personal reflection. Upgrade your pew Bibles today. Learn more and find bulk discounts for churches at Church Connect.     The Power of Partnership Upward Sports is the world’s largest Christian youth sports organization, empowering local churches to use sports as a dynamic connection tool to engage their communities. A Variety of Sports for Every Church From basketball, cheerleading, soccer, flag football, volleyball, and baseball to running for adults — and now pickleball — Upward Sports offers flexible league options to fit your church’s unique needs. Exciting News: Pickleball Has Arrived! Launched in April, pickleball is perfect for middle and high schoolers — easy to learn, quick to set up, and highly engaging. Whether you prefer a traditional league or a flexible practice-and-play format, Upward Sports is here to guide you. Plus, to help you get started, Upward is offering two free Pickleball Net Sets when you create your league. But act fast — only 200 sets are available! Schedule your call today and build a purposeful pickleball ministry in your community. Learn more at www.Upward.org/Pickleball where you can access an equipment list, court dimensions, and more. Be the Neighborhood Church Want to create a welcoming space for families? Upward Sports provides a first-class, well-organized, and fun league experience. As a self-sustaining ministry, any church — big or small — can get started. Customize your outreach ministry today. Get Ahead for Fall Sports Looking ahead to the fall season? Create an outreach strategy that includes a warm invite for the whole family – Use sports as that invite. Whether it’s soccer, flag football, cheerleading, volleyball, baseball or pickleball, Upward Sports is ready to support your church in reaching families right in the heart of your community. All you need is access to a gym or field and one passionate leader and Upward will support you with the rest. Learn more at www.Upward.org/ChurchAnswers. The post The Burge Report: Are Religious People More Prone to Conspiracy Theories? appeared first on Church Answers.
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Jun 26, 2025 • 31min

The Future of America’s Largest Churches: An Interview with Eric Geiger

Eric Geiger, lead pastor at Mariners Church and author of 'Simple Church,' dives into the evolving landscape of megachurches. He discusses the challenges they face, including changing demographics and shifting spiritual expectations among congregants. Geiger highlights the risks of charismatic leadership, urging a more collaborative approach to ministry. He also shares insights on Mariners Church's innovative strategies to engage with their community and adapt to future trends, emphasizing the importance of meaningful transformation in congregational life.

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