Lawyers Who Learn

Jon Krop made a decision that would terrify most lawyers: he quit his tech job at 30 and spent seven months in silent meditation at a teacher's center in Arizona. Living in a yurt, no phone, no talking, no reading—just meditation and twice-weekly check-ins with his teacher. What he discovered didn't just transform his relationship with ADHD and anxiety; it set him on an unexpected path toward helping legal professionals cultivate wellbeing. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores Jon's journey from Harvard Law student managing ADHD through medication and meditation to becoming CEO of Flourish Legal Wellbeing. Jon candidly discusses how his seven-month retreat rewired his brain so significantly that his medication stopped working the same way—and why he recently got a prescription again anyway, challenging simplistic narratives about wellness cures. When Jon returned from retreat, he went back to working at a law firm while teaching his first mindfulness workshop that same weekend. He spent a year and a half doing both before his wellbeing work grew enough to become full-time. Today, Flourish has evolved from Jon's solo practice into a team of lawyer-turned-experts delivering everything from nutrition counseling to financial wellness across major law firms, with 75% of programming delivered virtually. The conversation reveals Jon's ongoing practice of two months of silent retreat annually, his thoughts on why silence brings immediate relief rather than torture, and how humor becomes essential when discussing serious mental health topics. For legal professionals drowning in stress or curious about meditation beyond the hype, Jon offers a refreshingly honest perspective on what contemplative practice actually demands—and delivers.

As Director of Client Intelligence at Sidley Austin, Rachel Shields Williams transforms messy relationship data into strategic intelligence, tracking how former general counsels become clients, then expert witnesses, then something else entirely.  In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores how Rachel evolved from a marketing coordinator to President-Elect of the Legal Marketing Association. Her path began with a family business running golf courses and led through ten years in marketing before discovering her calling at the intersection of data, storytelling, and change management. Rachel reveals why law firms desperately need storytellers and change agents as AI transforms the industry. Her role tracking Fortune 100 clients goes beyond traditional CRM, mapping former general counsels, competing law firms, and relationship evolution across systems to build 360-degree intelligence dashboards. She explains why lawyers should embrace firm technology, and why holding emotional space for change matters more than racing toward efficiency. From her year-long executive program in change management to her Lego-building meditation practice, Rachel demonstrates how humanist skills become professional advantages in an increasingly technical world.

Julie Remer spent years as a practicing attorney secretly struggling with ADHD she didn't know she had. Then her five-year-old daughter's diagnosis sparked a revelation: those challenges she'd been white-knuckling through her entire legal career were actually neurological differences shared by 25% of law students today. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores Julie's evolution from an attorney hiding her struggles to founder of Amicus Coaching, where she helps neurodivergent lawyers transform perceived weaknesses into strategic advantages. Julie reveals the perfect storm that brings lawyers to her door: billing struggles, communication breakdowns, and executive function challenges that intensify as attorneys advance from associate to partner. She shares her airport medication mishap, losing her scarf, boarding pass, and Starbucks in one chaotic trip, which perfectly illustrates life without treatment. The conversation tackles critical questions: When is ADHD medication necessary versus optional? How do you distinguish between modern distraction and genuine neurodivergence? Why do high-achieving lawyers hit walls after years of successful coping? Julie offers practical frameworks including the power of morning routines over reactive email checking, why billing struggles signal deeper issues, and how understanding dopamine processing explains impulse control challenges. She demonstrates how neurodivergent traits like hyper-focus and creative thinking become superpowers in the right legal practice areas.

Amy Goodson could memorize entire speeches as a child and loved performing on stage—skills that seemed destined for communication work. She was also a dancer and loved exercise as a teen. This love for exercise led to an interest in nutrition, personally and professionally. From a communications degree to a double masters in exercise and sports nutrition, Amy’s 20-year career path has been all about marrying the two together to provide science-backed, practical information to the public. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman speaks with Amy, a registered dietitian who now runs three distinct businesses while traveling six trips in a single month. Amy works with major law firms like Haynes and Boone, where she discovered something surprising: highly successful attorneys often approach nutrition the same way they tackle everything else—by overthinking it. Her solution cuts through the noise with ruthlessly practical strategies that busy professionals can actually implement. Amy's framework centers on a counterintuitive truth: consistent small habits outperform dramatic overhauls every time. She calls it the "compound effect"—the same principle that builds successful legal careers builds sustainable wellness. Rather than advocating extreme protocols like intermittent fasting for active professionals, Amy focuses on stabilizing blood sugar through strategic carbohydrate-protein pairings that maintain focus during marathon court sessions. From her 4:30 AM workout routine to her creature-of-habit approach to meals, Amy embodies the discipline she teaches. Her media training—refined through fifteen separate trainings—translates complex nutritional science into sound bites that stick. This conversation offers attorneys a blueprint for sustaining peak performance without sacrificing the energy that makes them effective advocates.

Jonathan Schutrum's intellectual transformation began during COVID lockdown on nightly walks with his dog through Buffalo's winter streets. While the world shut down, the insurance defense attorney discovered philosophy podcasts that fundamentally changed how he approached legal practice. What started as curiosity evolved into a deliberate framework: treating mental fitness with the same rigor as physical training. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, explores how Schutrum applies ancient wisdom to modern insurance defense work at Dickie, McCamey & Chilcote. From Marcus Aurelius's Meditations to German philosopher Martin Heidegger's phenomenology, he views diverse intellectual pursuits as essential cross-training for the legal mind. His logic is compelling—lawyers already possess the analytical skills philosophy demands, so strengthening those muscles outside the courtroom makes you sharper inside it. Schutrum's approach extends beyond philosophy into deliberate cognitive expansion. When a Germany trip sparked intensive language learning, he discovered it offered the same mental benefits—taking him outside daily worries while exercising different parts of his mind. His visit to the unchanged Nuremberg trial courtroom, with its original 1945 leather chairs and wood paneling, reinforced how thinking across centuries and disciplines enhances legal perspective. He even applies this principle to his work soundtrack, comparing Richard Wagner's complex orchestrations—where multiple sections play different themes that converge into one melody—to managing the simultaneous elements of complex cases. As a Lawline faculty member teaching medical malpractice and strategic depositions, Schutrum embodies his core philosophy: teaching reinforces learning. His framework of "habit stacking"—layering new learning onto existing routines like podcast listening during dog walks—offers attorneys a practical path to compounding professional growth through intentional mental cross-training.  

Karen Munoz, a former personal injury attorney turned trauma-informed wellness coach, shares her inspiring journey. Rising from receptionist to managing partner, she realized her true calling lay in helping others on a deeper level. Karen discusses how yoga saved her life, emphasizing the importance of presence over notes in client interactions. She offers insights on integrating mindfulness into the legal profession, the significance of community support, and finding meaning through suffering. Ultimately, she reminds us that no one has to suffer in silence.

Colin Lachance, founder of LawQi and former manager of the Canadian Legal Information Institute, shares his mission to upskill 100,000 lawyers on AI. He emphasizes the urgency for attorneys to grasp AI fundamentals, introducing an innovative interactive sandbox for hands-on learning. Colin challenges traditional legal education by offering affordable access for bar associations. He discusses the transformative potential of AI in legal practices and his unique entrepreneurial philosophy of prioritizing impactful growth over revenue.

In this enlightening discussion, Clarissa Dominguez, a Professional Development Manager at BakerHostetler and an ICF-certified coach, shares her transformative journey from BigLaw to neuroscience coaching. She addresses the integration crisis in legal practice, advocating for emotional well-being alongside billable hours. Topics include the neuroscience of flow and spirituality in leadership, practical flow triggers, and the impact of AI on law firm values. Clarissa emphasizes reconnecting with one's internal power as essential for thriving in today's legal landscape.

Michael Grupp started his legal career at Freshfields and Hogan Lovells before founding Bryter, a workflow automation platform he calls "Lego for lawyers." Over the years he has raised $90 million, leads 100 employees across three continents, and teaches at Goethe University. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman explores Grupp's journey from Big Law associate to legal tech entrepreneur navigating the chaos of AI transformation. Based in Frankfurt, Germany, Grupp has built a company that turns repetitive legal processes into automated enterprise apps without requiring lawyers to write code. His approach to legal tech and the ups and downs of legal tech life is humour, and endurance sports. “Don’t take yourself too seriously”, he advocates, and proposes to do sports that get you to your limits. “Laughing and triathlons will keep you on the ground.” His contrarian views extend to legal education, where he teaches in Germany's eight-year training system that prepares lawyers to be judges—a career 95% won't pursue. With AI automating research and drafting, Grupp advocates radical reform: less memorization, more focus on project management, client relationships, and business skills law schools ignore. He shifts between two views of AI's impact: either lawyers drastically underestimate the irreplaceable human work they do, or the industry faces real contraction as 20-30% of billable work disappears. The conversation reveals lessons from "The Culture Code," which transformed how Grupp builds teams, and his Ironman training, which taught him that consistency beats talent—just showing up is most of the battle.

Marc W. Halpert encountered the same paralyzing problem across professions: all struggling to talk about themselves despite extraordinary credentials. The pattern was universal—high achievers frozen by fear, worried about sounding "too out there," dragging themselves through the mud instead of showcasing their value. In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David Schnurman sits down with Marc, a serial entrepreneur turned LinkedIn branding strategist who helps attorneys break free from the psycho-cultural programming that keeps them invisible. Marc's philosophy cuts against conventional wisdom: you're not bragging when you share your expertise—you're serving your future clients by helping them understand why you do what you do. His "know, feel, believe, do" framework transforms LinkedIn from a digital resume into a strategic platform for authentic professional visibility. The conversation reveals why legal professionals particularly struggle with self-promotion, how Marc teaches without slides to promote authentic expertise, and his counterintuitive advice on consistency of original content—post when you have something important to say, not according to arbitrary schedules. From his two published books to teaching at major law firms, Marc demonstrates how authentic visibility creates opportunity without the aggressive selling lawyers fear. For professionals stuck between imposter syndrome and the fear of appearing salesy, this episode offers strategies to finally let your value bubble up.