Lawyers Who Learn

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, interviews Kendra Brodin, whose unique background as an attorney, social worker, and wellbeing coach led her to become CEO of Esquire Well. This conversation explores the fascinating intersection of law, social work, and entrepreneurship while diving into the real challenges of building authentic expertise and overcoming imposter syndrome. Kendra opens up about her unconventional journey from first-generation college student to running for public office with a newborn baby, sharing how knocking on 10,000 doors taught her invaluable lessons about resilience and business development. She candidly discusses her first business failure from 2008-2011, emphasizing how that painful learning experience shaped her eventual success in relaunching Esquire Well in 2021. The conversation reveals her struggles with imposter syndrome as someone from rural Illinois navigating elite educational and professional environments. The discussion takes a practical turn as Kendra shares insights from building a speaking business with over 25 different keynote topics, explaining how she structures presentations, works with instructional designers, and prices her services. She reveals the business psychology behind offering both high-end keynote speaking and accessible online content, demonstrating how different price points serve different needs without cannibalizing each other. David and Kendra engage in real-time coaching around overcoming barriers to building a speaking career, covering everything from content creation to closing deals while balancing entrepreneurship with motherhood and personal wellbeing.

Niki Black, Principal Legal Insight Strategist at AffiniPay and a pioneer in legal tech, discusses her fascinating journey from traditional law practice to advocating for cloud computing. She shares how her passion for tech transformed her career, influenced by a pivotal meeting with Richard Susskind. Niki reveals her strategies for building a massive LinkedIn following and leveraging AI tools like ChatGPT in content creation. The conversation shines a light on the ever-evolving intersection of law and technology, offering invaluable insights for legal professionals.

In this compelling episode of Lawyers Who Learn, host David interviews Steve Fretzin, one of the legal industry's most respected business development coaches and author of five books on legal rainmaking. This isn't your typical business development conversation - it's a candid deep dive into the mistakes and transformative moments that shaped a coaching empire. Steve opens up about his journey from underachiever to serial entrepreneur, starting with how a devastating 1996 plane crash became his turning point. He shares the costly lesson of running four separate companies simultaneously with $35,000 in monthly overhead, revealing how "shiny penny syndrome" nearly derailed his career before teaching him the power of focus and specialization. Listeners will discover why Steve now intentionally limits himself to just 20 clients per year despite having triple the demand, and his philosophy on what truly defines a "rainmaker." The conversation explores Steve's innovative approach to content creation, including the fascinating story behind his AI-powered book "101 Top Rainmakers’ featuring podcast interviews, and why having 101 co-authors became a marketing masterpiece. Steve discusses his personal growth journey, the life-changing impact of "Getting Things Done" by David Allen, and how undiagnosed ADHD shaped his entrepreneurial path. This episode offers rare transparency about choosing lifestyle design over maximum profit, perfect for legal professionals, entrepreneurs dealing with scattered focus, and anyone interested in intentional business design.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman speaks with Robert Hanna, founder of KC Partners legal recruiting and host of the Legally Speaking podcast, one of the legal industry's most successful shows with nearly 400 episodes across 6,500+ cities worldwide. Robert shares his journey from working at traditional legal recruitment firms to building his own company and becoming a digital media powerhouse. He reveals how testing content on LinkedIn in 2019 led to creating the Legally Speaking podcast as a business development tool – a strategy that transformed both his recruiting business and personal brand. The conversation explores Robert's innovative approach to podcasting, where instead of cold calling for clients, he invites law firm partners to be guests, providing them with valuable marketing assets while building relationships that convert to business. This "give first" mentality helped him land a major sponsorship deal with Clio in 2021, just two years after launching. Throughout the discussion, Robert shares personal insights about his grandfather's legal legacy and how it drives his mission to "build a kinder, more collaborative, future-proof legal community." He emphasizes the importance of finding your "why" – noting that "your why should make you cry" – as the foundation for persevering through business challenges. The episode concludes with practical advice on building a personal brand, the power of creating mini-series content, and why "the magic you're looking for is in the work you're avoiding" – particularly when it comes to embracing AI and digital transformation in the legal industry.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman speaks with Ian Nelson, co-founder of Hotshot, a leading legal training company revolutionizing how lawyers develop their skills in the age of AI. Ian shares his unconventional journey from BigLaw attorney at Kramer Levin to entrepreneur, revealing how a career-changing assignment to London exposed him to the UK's innovative support and legal training system. This experience inspired his transition to Practical Law Company, where he helped build and grow the U.S. operation from a handful of people in a Regus workspace to over 200 employees before its acquisition by Thomson Reuters. The conversation explores how AI is fundamentally changing legal education and the role of the associate. With Gen AI handling lower-level tasks, firms are scrambling to upskill associates faster than ever before. Ian explains how Hotshot's content, including its new M&A simulation, allowing firms to run mock deals and transactions themselves, giving associates hands-on experience without touching actual client matters. Throughout the discussion, Ian emphasizes the importance of high-quality content and meeting lawyers where they are – from those who've never touched ChatGPT to advanced practitioners needing sophisticated AI training. He discusses the evolution from bite-sized video content to immersive, experiential learning programs and AI learning tracks that prepare lawyers for a future where their role is increasingly strategic and advisory. The episode concludes with both hosts sharing insights on the future of legal training, including staff development programs, accreditation services, and the ongoing challenge of creating scalable solutions for firms of all sizes in a rapidly changing landscape.

Erin Levine, founder and CEO of Hello Divorce, is a family law attorney who transformed her personal experiences into a mission to make divorce accessible and affordable. In a heartfelt discussion, she reflects on her journey from a sexual abuse survivor to launching a legal tech startup. Erin shares her pivotal moments, including a client's regret over litigation, which motivated her to innovate. She delves into challenges like raising $7.5 million and balancing personal struggles while emphasizing empathy and technology's role in modernizing legal services.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Laura Cowan, founder of 2-Hour Lifestyle Lawyer (2HLL) and author of the newly released book "Lifestyle Lawyer Revolution." Laura shares her fascinating journey from working as a CPA at Ernst & Young and hedge funds to making a bold career change at age 35 to attend law school. After her mother's passing in 2015, Laura established a successful estate planning practice in New York City, growing it to a seven-figure business within three years. When COVID hit, she relocated to Rhode Island and was forced to reimagine her practice virtually. This transition led to a profound realization: she could maintain a successful practice working just a few hours a day while enjoying a more balanced lifestyle. Laura explains how this epiphany evolved into her coaching business, 2HLL, where she now teaches other attorneys how to create and build similar virtual estate planning practices that prioritize lifestyle while still generating substantial income. Her framework, which focuses on achieving $10,000 monthly revenue through just 2-4 clients per month, currently has a waitlist and has attracted over 500 lawyers to her program. Throughout the interview, Laura emphasizes the importance of estate planning workshops for client acquisition, the value of investing in coaching, and her philosophy that "a rising tide lifts all ships." She discusses how her approach differs from other legal coaching programs that focus solely on maximizing revenue, noting that many attorneys are seeking balance rather than just financial growth. The conversation concludes with insights about her new book, which codifies her unique approach to practicing law in the post-COVID era.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, speaks with Seth Price, founder of Price Benowitz LLP and BluShark Digital. Seth shares his entrepreneurial journey from GW Law graduate to building a 50-lawyer firm and one of the legal industry's most successful digital marketing agencies. Seth reveals how he and his law school friend created a "divide and conquer" partnership from day one – with his partner handling the legal work while Seth focused on marketing and operations. This unconventional arrangement allowed Seth to build the firm's digital presence when SEO was in its infancy, eventually growing his internal marketing team to seven people before spinning it off as BluShark Digital in 2016. Throughout the conversation, Seth emphasizes the importance of following your energy – focusing on what gives you enthusiasm rather than what drains you. For Seth, this meant recognizing early that traditional legal practice wasn't his passion, while building relationships and solving problems energized him. He discusses how this philosophy has guided his business decisions, from hiring to client acquisition. Seth also shares valuable insights about business development in the legal space, highlighting the power of conference networking over cold calling. He attends approximately 12 conferences annually, viewing them as opportunities to build relationships that may take years to develop into business. Seth explains how this approach has helped BluShark Digital grow to serve over 300 law firms nationwide. The episode concludes with Seth's thoughts on leadership and service, including his decision to bring futurist Peter Shankman on board to help his team stay ahead of emerging trends in technology and marketing.

In this episode of Lawyers Who Learn, David Schnurman, CEO of Lawline, has a conversation with Evan Shenkman, Chief Knowledge and Innovation Officer at Fisher Phillips. Evan shares his journey from employment litigation attorney to legal innovation leader, and discusses how his firm embraces cutting-edge legal technology. The discussion centers on Fisher Phillips' pioneering role as the first law firm to test Case Text's Co-Counsel AI tool, and explores how Evan has established at least a dozen similar relationships with legal tech startups since then. He explains the mutual benefits of these partnerships: law firms gain early access to innovative tools while startups receive valuable feedback from practicing attorneys to improve their products. Evan offers insights into how these legal tech tools enhance attorney performance, emphasizing that the goal isn't just to save money but to make lawyers more effective. He details his firm's approach to training attorneys on AI tools through live demonstrations, practical use cases, and ongoing support from his growing team of 15 knowledge management professionals. The conversation also covers how innovation impacts client relationships, with Evan sharing examples of winning significant client business specifically because of the firm's technology initiatives. He discusses the practical challenges of implementation, the importance of building relationships in the legal tech community, and how he balances a demanding travel schedule with family life and personal wellbeing. Throughout the episode, Evan provides valuable perspective on how law firms can position themselves at the forefront of legal technology while creating tangible value for clients, attorneys, and the business itself.

Ted Theodoropoulos, Founder and CEO of InfoDash, shares his remarkable journey from a college collection agency to leading innovative legal tech solutions. He dives into the importance of building trust within law firms and reveals how personal relationships can transform the legal tech landscape. Ted also discusses the challenges of shifting from a professional services model to a SaaS platform and provides valuable insights on continuous learning and balancing CEO duties with personal health. His thoughts on handling equity sharing and embracing AI are particularly enlightening.