The Experience Edge

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer speaks with Allison Paine Landers, CXO for Banking and Lending at UBS and a recognized leader in the FinTech Top 100 Women list. With a deep foundation built across financial giants like Prudential and Wells Fargo, Allison brings a sophisticated perspective on customer and employee experience transformation. From her roots in marketing and operations to steering global CX initiatives, she illustrates how a nuanced, journey-centric approach can redefine service delivery at scale.Allison dives into the challenges and rewards of integrating customer experience within legacy financial institutions. She offers tactical insights into orchestrating cross-functional teams, aligning product and journey ownership, and building robust testing mechanisms to validate real improvements. Whether launching new banking capabilities or enhancing existing ones, her methodology revolves around deep listening, data-driven prioritization, and adaptive design - all anchored in a firm commitment to measurable business outcomes.Guest BioAllison Paine Landers is the Chief Experience Officer for Banking and Lending at UBS. A seasoned leader in customer and employee experience, Allison has over two decades of expertise in financial services. Her past leadership roles include spearheading CX transformations at Prudential and Wells Fargo, where she architected journey-centric practices from the ground up. She has been named to the FinTech Top 100 Women for two consecutive years, reflecting her industry influence and innovation. Known for her strategic clarity and operational pragmatism, Allison is passionate about designing experiences that are not only user-centric but also commercially impactful.Chapters 00:00 Welcome and Guest Introduction 01:29 Evolution of CX in Financial Services 03:49 The Role of CX Teams: Ownership vs. Influence 06:10 Organizational Design for CX Impact 07:30 Standing Up Journey Practices at Prudential 10:31 Journey-Centric vs. Product-Centric Models 12:27 Structuring CX at UBS 15:19 Future-State Journey Mapping 17:30 Differentiating UBS Through High-Touch and Digital 20:26 Journey Ownership and Accountability 24:19 Redesigning Financial Services Organizations 27:38 Common Patterns in Journey Management 30:01 Delivering Tangible Business Value 34:55 Designing the Right Solution, Not Just Fixing Problems 37:31 Implementing UX Testing and Real-Time Panels 40:43 Balancing Pilots and Panels for Rollouts 43:44 Misunderstood Challenges in Journey Management 47:45 Proving ROI Beyond CX Scores 51:20 Amplifying Business Value Through Horizontal CX Views 55:38 Using AI to Accelerate Insight Generation 58:00 Blending Context with AI in Journey Analytics 01:00:17 Integrating Business Performance into Journeys 01:01:58 Translating Journeys for Enterprise-Wide Understanding 01:04:58 Final Thoughts and Where to Find AllisonFollow us:Jochem’s Profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/Allison's Profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisonpainelanders/

Elizabeth Oates is on a mission to help insight professionals go from simply being “interesting” to delivering true business impact. As the author of More Than Just Interesting and a seasoned insights leader, she’s transforming how organizations approach decision-making, data collection, and the role of human understanding in customer experience.In this episode, Elizabeth introduces the concept of “collection debt,” explains why insights functions often fall short, and provides practical tools for tying every insight to a business decision. She dives into how AI is reshaping the role of analysts, why trust and timing matter more than ever, and how journey thinking can create an infinite loop of customer engagement. Whether you lead an insights team or work with one, this is essential listening.Guest BioElizabeth Oates is an insights strategist, thought leader, and the author of More Than Just Interesting: How to Build an Insights Function for Impact. With over two decades of experience, she has built, led, and transformed insight teams for major organizations, helping them move from data collection to decision enablement.Elizabeth developed a framework of nine core skills for impactful insight work, blending business strategy, storytelling, and stakeholder influence. Her work centers on elevating the role of human insights in an increasingly AI-driven world, ensuring organizations maintain customer relevance while building trust through strategic insight delivery.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Elizabeth Oates and collection debt 03:26 What is collection debt and why it matters 07:36 Aligning insights with business actions 12:48 VOC: From reporting to relevance 14:48 Insight lifecycle: What’s still true and what’s now true 17:36 Where to start collecting insights 22:35 Anatomy of a perfect insight 28:02 Reframing insights language for impact 30:20 The role of AI in modern insights work 35:22 The underestimated power of influence 44:36 From interesting to impactful: The action connection 49:40 Case study: When not launching a product is the win 56:08 Measuring and celebrating insights impact 59:37 Using journey thinking to avoid customer exits 01:07:16 Why LEGO masters the customer journeyJochem’s Profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/Elizabeth's Profile - ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethknoxoates/

From grassroots insights in East Africa to global strategy, Carolyne Gathuru brings a powerful voice to what it truly means to be customer-centric. As a CX strategist, leadership coach, and member of the Women in CX Inner Circle, she weaves 25 years of field experience into practical, impactful guidance for organizations undergoing transformation.In this conversation, Carolyne dives into how to build genuine customer care into company culture, why training isn't always the answer, and how to simplify CX strategy without losing depth. She challenges assumptions about AI, voice of the customer programs, and what it takes to operationalize CX in both commercial and government settings.Guest BioCarolyne Gathuru is a seasoned CX strategist and communication coach with over two decades of experience guiding public and private organizations toward customer-centric transformation. She is a core member of the Women in CX Inner Circle and the founder of Life Skills Consulting in Kenya.Her work spans leadership alignment, culture change, and voice of the customer (VOC) programs. Carolyne’s mission is to help organizations move from box-ticking initiatives to genuine impact by diagnosing systemic gaps, simplifying complex strategies, and advocating for the human side of customer experience. With her clear-eyed approach and relentless passion, she is changing how organizations view and implement CX from the inside out.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Carolyne Gathuru and CX in Africa01:47 Training for genuine care, not just scripts06:05 Why training often isn’t the real problem09:07 The power of stakeholder interviews and bottom-up insight12:05 The leadership checklist to define CX initiatives17:22 The tension between AI convenience and human connection23:29 Rethinking Voice of the Customer programs29:16 Why organizations must ask: What do customers really want?32:49 The surprising evolution of CX in government36:23 The hardest part: Tying CX to the bottom line40:10 Journey mapping as a diagnostic tool42:27 Tying CX to brand, ESG, and internal engagement46:18 Using pain points to build CX business cases47:50 Why simplicity drives action in culture change50:15 Representation and relevance in global CX networks52:30 Elevating CX as a real profession for women in Africa55:22 Final thoughts: Start experience excellence at homeJochem’s Profile - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Carolyne's Profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolyne-gathuru-266ab017/

Crystal D'Cunha is on a mission to ignite leaders, excite employees, and delight customers. As President and CEO of The Inside View Inc., she helps organizations hardwire customer experience into their culture. With award-winning programs and decades of leadership expertise, she equips teams to take CX from theory to action - starting with something as deceptively simple as the daily huddle.In this episode, Crystal unpacks the emotional and structural DNA of a customer-centric company. She explains the difference between customer service and customer experience, why CX is not a department, and how small moments of delight can drive major business impact. From the power of language to real-world organizational transformation, this is a masterclass in experiential leadership.Guest BioCrystal D'Cunha is an award-winning customer experience consultant, keynote speaker, and the visionary CEO of The Inside View Inc. Known for her energetic and hands-on approach, she helps companies integrate CX deeply into their leadership development and employee culture. Her Leadership Experience Excellence program won a Stevie Award, beating global giants like IBM and Pepsi.Crystal is also the host of the Leaders Listen Up podcast and a seasoned advisor on embedding diversity, equity, and inclusion into customer and employee journeys. With a practical philosophy of “ignite, excite, and delight,” she transforms organizations by aligning their leaders and teams around consistent, emotionally resonant customer experiences.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Crystal D'Cunha and her CX philosophy01:22 Winning a Stevie Award for CX leadership training06:52 Why CX is not a department09:34 How eight-minute huddles shift culture18:51 Customer service vs. customer experience23:11 Coaching employees to drive better customer outcomes29:12 A magical Hilton experience that cost almost nothing38:14 The mindset shift leaders need for CX transformation44:01 Who should own CX - and what to do when support is missing52:29 Why many CX leaders are set up to fail56:01 How to know your leadership team is truly readyJochem’s Profile - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Crystal's Profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/crystald1/overlay/about-this-profile/

From rethinking growth strategy to redefining what it means to be truly customer-led, Gia Loudi brings a sharp lens to how tech companies build around customer experience. With deep roots in B2B SaaS and a track record that spans Bitly, Sprout Social, and her own advisory work, she champions a foundational approach to CX that starts with one powerful question: What does your best customer really need?In this episode, Gia unpacks the system behind customer-led growth, the overlooked power of jobs-to-be-done research, and why AI is no substitute for human insight. She shares how companies accumulate CX debt, why product marketing is often the unsung hero, and how mapping customer leaps of faith can unlock sustainable growth.Guest BioGia Laudi is a growth advisor, author, and speaker who helps high-growth B2B SaaS companies build sustainable, customer-led strategies. As co-author of Forget the Funnel and host of the podcast by the same name, she brings a grounded, systems-based approach to operationalising customer experience across marketing, product, and success teams.With over a decade of experience at companies like Bitly, Sprout Social, SparkToro, and more than 100 startups, Gia specializes in translating customer insights into repeatable growth systems. Her methodology, rooted in jobs-to-be-done research and customer experience mapping, empowers organizations to reduce guesswork and realign around the true value customers seek. Passionate about cutting through the noise, she’s reshaping how tech companies think about CX - from intuition to insight, and from chaos to clarity.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Gia Laudi and her CX work in B2B SaaS01:54 Rethinking CX mapping: Beyond transactional journey maps07:50 Inside the customer-led growth system11:59 Defining "leaps of faith" in the customer journey18:36 CX debt: What it is and how to spot it22:07 Who should own customer experience in SaaS?25:56 Can AI replace human-led customer research?43:13 Operationalizing the customer experience map47:33 Why jobs-to-be-done must anchor your research49:37 The opportunity of AI in organizing customer insights55:10 Final thoughts: Re-centering strategy around real customer valueJochem’s Profile - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Georgiana's Profile - ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/

From building trust with vulnerable communities to redefining the role of digital in healthcare, Joan Cox leads with a deeply human approach to patient experience at LifeBridge Health. Drawing on her work across diverse communities, she shares why true transformation starts with empathy, connection, and community-driven care.In this episode, Joan explores how digital tools must support - not replace - human interaction, the hidden toll of compassion fatigue, and why patient experience is essential to both clinical outcomes and lasting change.Guest BioJoan Cox is the Chief Experience Officer at LifeBridge Health, where she leads initiatives that embed empathy, human connection, and holistic care into every aspect of the patient journey.With extensive experience collaborating with organizations like the Mayo Clinic Network, Joan brings a deep understanding of how mission-driven transformation can improve both patient outcomes and organizational health.Drawing from her work across diverse communities—from underserved desert populations to urban healthcare systems—she specializes in creating systems that support both clinical excellence and emotional connection. Passionate about empowering patients and healthcare teams alike, Joan is committed to reshaping healthcare delivery around compassion, community, and lasting impact.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Joan Cox and her CX leadership at LifeBridge Health02:47 Lessons from Arizona: Building trust with underserved communities08:43 Redefining mission-driven healthcare in Baltimore14:28 Digital engagement vs. human connection: Finding the balance21:26 How patient experience drives financial outcomes in healthcare30:37 Organizing CX teams to embed the patient voice at the executive level39:18 Breaking silos: Collaborating across marketing, IT, and care teams49:39 Leading through presence: The power of small moments58:29 Joan’s vision: Equal access to care for allJochem’s Profile - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Joan's Profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joan-pendergast-cox-cpxp-66b3287/

From challenging public perceptions of the pharmaceutical industry to redefining how patient trust is built and maintained, Richard Schwartz brings a bold, human-centered vision to healthcare experience design. As a CX leader in the life sciences, Richard unpacks why patient journeys are more than process maps—they are emotional and behavioral landscapes shaped by belief, compassion, and clarity.In this episode, Richard and Jochem explore how pharma brands can evolve beyond reactive care and build real relationships through trust-driven design. They challenge the myth that pharma companies are purely profit-driven and instead spotlight the untapped opportunity in patient-centered experiences that drive both adherence and outcomes. From the role of compassion in medicine to the impact of AI-driven agents on healthcare journeys, Richard offers a blueprint for how experience can become a true form of clinical intervention—with measurable, meaningful impact.Guest BioRichard Schwartz is a customer experience leader in the life sciences sector, where he’s made a mark uncovering the hidden dynamics between pharmaceutical companies, healthcare providers, and patients. His work has focused on understanding why prescriptions often fail to reach patients and how trust becomes a critical, and often overlooked, factor in medication adherence.With a deep commitment to patient-centric innovation, Richard views experience design as a form of medicine—one that holds real clinical impact. His approach bridges operational complexity with human insight, helping pharma brands reimagine engagement strategies that build trust and improve outcomes. Passionate about shaping the future of healthcare, Richard brings both empathy and strategic rigor to his work in redefining how the industry serves its most important stakeholder: the patient.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Richard Schwartz and his CX mission in pharma03:42 Pharma’s Disney complex vs. the real miracle of medicine08:24 The public trust gap and its root causes13:39 Misunderstood journeys and the myth of segmentation18:28 Experiences in medicine: Compassion as a clinical tool21:25 The tangled economic ecosystem around patient care25:29 Obesity treatment as a best-in-class CX example28:03 Debunking common myths about the pharmaceutical industry34:11 Pharma advertising and missed opportunities to connect37:41 Breaking the cycle of preserving the status quo42:08 Drawing patient-centricity: arrows in, not out44:10 Metrics, measures, and why action matters46:39 Designing predictive, invisible experiences50:16 How CX drives prescribing behavior and brand adoption54:18 AI and agentic systems: the future of healthcare journeys59:40 Data sharing, privacy fears, and trust trade-offs01:06:29 Richard’s advice for building your Experience EdgeJochem’s Profile - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Richard's Profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardpschwartz/

From redefining empathy at scale to structuring strategy around shared goals, Steven Smart brings a pragmatic and people-first approach to digital transformation in financial services. As a Digital and CX Lead at DLL, Steven shares how streamlining customer journeys—down to a handful of critical interactions—creates clarity and consistency across complex, siloed organizations.In this episode, Steven unpacks the operational power of aligning internal priorities with customer goals, the evolving role of empathy in both design and leadership, and why frictionless experiences start with cross-functional collaboration. He also shares powerful lessons from personal journeys—both triumphant and trying—that shaped his view of what truly great customer experience looks like.Guest BioSteven Smart is a digital and customer experience leader at DLL, where he has spent the past three years driving transformation through customer-centric innovation, organizational change, and strategic partnerships. With over eight years of experience reshaping customer journeys, Steven is known for aligning technology, business goals, and customer needs into cohesive, impactful solutions.His approach blends empathy with structured problem-solving, helping teams navigate complexity while keeping the customer at the centre. Passionate about creating lasting impressions, Steven is deeply committed to guiding organisations on the path to meaningful, experience-led growth.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Steven Smart and his CX transformation work at DLL03:42 Rethinking the customer journey in financial services09:36 Balancing frictionless design with human connection12:26 Breaking silos and aligning strategy across teams20:34 Operationalizing empathy and embedding it into culture28:57 One vision, one roadmap: Structuring for CX at scale35:25 AI in CX: Augmenting, not replacing human insight50:42 Clean data, APIs, and preparing for an AI-powered future57:28 Personal journeys: First, worst, best, and last CX moments01:03:01 Final reflections and Steven’s CX magic wand wishJochem’s Profile - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Steven Smart - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-smart-b612b45a/

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer speaks with Shanta Bodhan, Associate Director of Innovation Customer Experience at Cornerstone, about the evolving landscape of employee development through immersive technologies like virtual reality (VR), extended reality (XR), and generative AI. Drawing on her background in HR and sustainability, Shanta shares how her team is reimagining workforce learning at scale for global brands including Siemens, Nestlé, and UPS.The conversation explores the challenges and advantages of remote-first organizations, how immersive learning can drive measurable outcomes, and the balance between personalization and scalability in customer experience. Shanta also discusses the intersection of employee and customer journeys, the role of mentorship in combating imposter syndrome, and how innovation teams can align business and individual goals. With practical insights and a vision for the future of learning, this episode offers a compelling look at the power of human-centered technology in shaping tomorrow’s workforce.Guest BioMy guest today is Shanta Bodhan, Associate Director of Innovation Customer Experience at Cornerstone. A visionary in corporate learning, Shanta is leading transformative initiatives using extended reality (XR), virtual reality (VR), and generative AI to redefine how global organizations approach employee development and engagement.With a background spanning sustainability and human resources, she’s passionate about aligning innovation with purpose. Shanta is a dedicated advocate for mentorship, diversity, and inclusion, and is helping shape the future of work through equity-driven solutions and cutting-edge learning strategies.Chapters01:17 Shanta's Background and Move to Remote Work02:31 Defining Workforce Agility and Its Relevance04:25 Remote vs. Return-to-Office: What's Working?06:28 Scaling Remote Work at Cornerstone08:19 The Value of In-Person Connection09:26 Using XR and Generative AI for Learning11:17 Overcoming Adoption Challenges in VR Training13:18 Measurable Impact of Immersive Learning14:51 Measuring Learning Retention with Hard and Soft Skills17:21 Partnering with Companies on XR Implementation19:08 Shanta’s Role in Innovation CX at Cornerstone21:16 Customer Experience vs. Customer Success23:48 Customer Feedback and Innovation Integration24:53 All-Remote Deployment of VR Learning28:28 The Future of Learning with XR and AI30:08 Who Buys XR Learning: HR, Innovation, or Leadership?32:35 Impact on Attrition and Personalization in Learning35:54 Can VR Learning Be Mandatory?38:56 Adoption Through Normalization of Immersive Tools40:31 Employee Experience vs. Customer Experience43:05 Mentorship vs. Management and the Rise of Imposter Syndrome48:13 When and How to Introduce Mentoring51:14 Aligning Employee and Business Goals53:03 Customer Journey Goals and Measuring Success54:45 Balancing Scalability and Personalization56:44 Customer Journey as a Cross-Functional Tool58:16 Fixing Friction Points in the Customer Journey59:34 Personal Reflections on Journey Moments Jochem’s Profile - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shanta Bodhan - ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shanta-bodhan/

From redefining “frontline” support to using AI for strategic insight—not replacement—Jen Burton brings a fresh, human-first perspective to CX leadership. As a CX Coach at Zendesk with nearly 20 years of experience, she shares how building a culture rooted in emotional intelligence and warmth drives both team performance and customer loyalty. In this episode, Jen dives into the operational power of AI, the untapped value of second response time, and the importance of aligning CX with business goals. She also opens up about her own journey through leadership challenges, hiring missteps, and the pursuit of becoming truly “unbothered.”Guest BioJen Burton is a CX Coach at Zendesk, where she leads the design and implementation of human-centric, data-driven performance systems that streamline operations and deliver outstanding results. With more than 15 years of experience in customer support and operations, Jen is widely recognized for her ability to build scalable, high-quality support systems across chat, SMS, and voice channels.Her approach combines the power of AI with the nuance of human insight, empowering teams to operate with autonomy while driving both customer satisfaction and business success. Passionate about elevating the human experience, Jen also brings a deep commitment to fostering personal growth and authentic connections within teams.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Jen Burton and her leadership philosophy03:42 Humanizing leadership: challenges and best practices10:04 Reframing blame and building emotional resilience13:42 Creating a warm and high-performing CS culture20:21 Structuring support teams for scale and growth24:07 Collaborating across teams: CX as a strategic partner30:34 Making the business case for CX investments33:59 Operational AI: from sentiment analysis to trend detection42:54 Evolving CX metrics and performance management51:37 Coaching and QA in modern CX environments55:02 The future of CX: upskilling, AI, and journey thinking59:16 Ownership and collaboration around customer journeys01:01:50 Personal journey stories: growth through wins and losses01:09:08 Where to find Jen and final reflectionsJochem’s Profile - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jochemvanderveer/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jen Burton - ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenburton/