Averie Swanson, longtime saison brewer and founder of Keeping Together, discusses exploring flavor in saison with unconventional grain bases, downplaying Brettanomyces in mixed culture fermentation, and using acidity as an element of structure. They also touch on the influence of Tank Seven, the importance of local ingredients, creative brewing within constraints, and unique flavor experiences like using spent fornet botanicals that tasted like granola.

Mark Hastings, experienced brewer in Montana, discusses his journey of experimenting with craft malt in his award-winning American wheat beer and black IPA. He shares his insights on avoiding darker malt flavors, shifting base malts, building hop combos, and selecting malt for grassiness in wheat beer.

This week’s podcast is different from most. A couple weeks ago, I drove down to Colorado Springs to catch up with Jess and Rich Fierro of Atrevida Beer. Jess was the winner of Season One of the Vice TV show Beerland, and they went on to open their small community-focused brewery in 2018. From the start, Atrevida proudly embraced the slogan “Diversity, it’s what’s on tap,” and over the past five years they’ve lived it—women brewers have outnumbered men in their brewhouse by a ratio of about four-to-one. Atrevida would make an interesting case study all on its own, but the night of November 19, 2022, brought them national attention for completely different reasons. Jess, Rich, their daughter Kassy, her longtime boyfriend Raymond, and other friends were celebrating a birthday at Club Q in Colorado Springs when a gunman attacked the club, killing five and injuring another 19 before Rich—who retired with the rank of major after 15 years in the Army—charged, disarmed, and subdued the gunman. Raymond was one of the five people killed. That incident isn’t what this podcast is about. In this episode, we discuss what’s happened since then. Jess, Rich, and Kassy all still work at the brewery. It’s a small business, and they’re isn’t any magical mechanism that automatically keeps the brewery going when an unthinkable tragedy strikes. The outpouring of support for them was intense, and the backlash was also intense. Suddenly, they were thrust into a national spotlight while also having to process such a traumatic personal event. Even now, a few who ostensibly wanted to show support have been harassing them over something as trivial as a delay in shipping T-shirts. However, as you’ll hear in this conversation, Jess and Rich are special people. We cover a range of subjects, from making creative beers that connect through diverse flavors, to running a values-centered business, and on to managing a business through trauma with all the ups and downs that come with it. Their story is an inspiring one. —Jamie This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across the country along the way, and they’re proud of the cool partnerships they’ve built over the past 30 years. Reach out for a quote today at gdchillers.com or call to discuss your next project. BSG Craft Brewing (https://Bsgcraftbrewing.com/): BSG and their partners HVG bring you Amira, the latest from their hop Breeding Program. With its classic hoppy, slightly herbal, and zesty lemon aromas it’s the ideal hop for those looking to capture the traditional flavor of a classic German lager. Visit BSGCraftbrewing.com to learn more. Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Old Orchard's new brewing customers often mention discovering Old Orchard through the word-of-mouth recommendation of another brewer. To join the core of Old Orchard's brewing community, learn more at oldorchard.com/brewer Accubrew (https://accubrew.io) The AccuBrew system is designed to give you unprecedented insight into the fermentation process. Monitor gravity, fermentation activity, clarity, and temperature, schedule reminders, and receive alerts anywhere, anytime. To learn more about AccuBrew head over to AccuBrew.io ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) The ProFill series of rotary can fillers from ProBrew are accelerating plant production everywhere. For more information, visit www.probrew.com or email contactus@probrew.com. Tabski (https://tabski.com): Tabski QR Code Ordering is the future of brewery ordering! With Tabski, your customers can order and pay for their beers right from their phones by scanning a QR Code on the table. Get rid of lengthy lines and increase check size by up to 30%! Learn how you can get started today at tabski.com. Omega Yeast (https://omegayeast.com): Thiolized yeast are a new tool for brewers to bring intense guava and passionfruit aromas out of your malt and hops. And wait, there’s more! Omega Yeast makes yeast-to-order with a consistent one week lead time ensuring peak freshness and reliability. Five Star Chemicals (https://fivestarchemicals.com): Keep your brewery running smoothly with Five Star Chemicals. Our cleaning solutions are specifically formulated to meet the unique needs of breweries, ensuring that your equipment stays clean and free of harmful bacteria and contaminants. ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com): ABS Commercial is proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and small parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact us today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs. ABS Commercial. We are brewers. Support Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast

Experts in brewing with wet and fresh hops, Joe Mohrfeld, Steve Luke, and Zach Turner, discuss the evolution of fresh hop brewing, telling agricultural stories through beer, balancing grassy/vegetal and fruit flavors, choosing specific hop varieties, layering multiple hop forms for flavor complexity, fermenting with the right yeast, managing pH increase, and the longevity of fresh hop beers.

Utah’s beer laws are some of the most anomalous in the country—the state does everything it can to make life hard on brewers—but one byproduct of the laws restricting the sale of beers based on ABV is that Utah brewers have had the commercial incentive to hone their low gravity brewing techniques. Today, at Templin Family Brewing in the granary district of Salt Lake City, you’ll find a dozen or so beers at 5% ABV (or less) on tap at any given time—because anything they make over 5% must be poured from a can. But ask Kevin Templin about it, and he won’t complain—he loves making and drinking low ABV beers, and the beers on their board are perfect for the social focus of their taproom. Come with friends, drink a few, and still get home safely. That discipline with low gravity beers is paying off—Templin’s Granary Pils, a kellerbier, has won GABF bronze and silver medals every year for the past three years, and recently nabbed a top score of 99 from Craft Beer & Brewing’s blind judging panel. In this episode, Templin discusses his approach to lager brewing, how they lager IPAs, mashing thin and cool for maximum attenuation, shaving the beers each time they’re brewed through a cooperative sensory-driven process, reducing hop matter and contact time for greater hop impact, the importance of a clean brewery, and more. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across the country along the way, and they’re proud of the cool partnerships they’ve built over the past 30 years. Reach out for a quote today at gdchillers.com or call to discuss your next project. BSG Craft Brewing (https://Bsgcraftbrewing.com/Cancraft): The best beers start with the best ingredients. All BSG Hops are hand selected for quality by their expert staff, so you can trust you are getting the very best hops from the very best growers in the U.S. and around the world. Discover BSG’s extensive range of domestic and imported hops at BSGCraftBrewing.com/hops Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Old Orchard's new brewing customers often mention discovering Old Orchard through the word-of-mouth recommendation of another brewer. To join the core of Old Orchard's brewing community, learn more at oldorchard.com/brewer Accubrew (https://accubrew.io) The AccuBrew system is designed to give you unprecedented insight into the fermentation process. Monitor gravity, fermentation activity, clarity, and temperature, schedule reminders, and receive alerts anywhere, anytime. To learn more about AccuBrew head over to AccuBrew.io ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) The ProFill series of rotary can fillers from ProBrew are accelerating plant production everywhere. For more information, visit www.probrew.com or email contactus@probrew.com. Tabski (https://tabski.com): Tabski QR Code Ordering is the future of brewery ordering! With Tabski, your customers can order and pay for their beers right from their phones by scanning a QR Code on the table. Get rid of lengthy lines and increase check size by up to 30%! Learn how you can get started today at tabski.com. Omega Yeast (https://omegayeast.com): Thiolized yeast are a new tool for brewers to bring intense guava and passionfruit aromas out of your malt and hops. And wait, there’s more! Omega Yeast makes yeast-to-order with a consistent one week lead time ensuring peak freshness and reliability. Five Star Chemicals (https://fivestarchemicals.com): Keep your brewery running smoothly with Five Star Chemicals. Our cleaning solutions are specifically formulated to meet the unique needs of breweries, ensuring that your equipment stays clean and free of harmful bacteria and contaminants. ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com): ABS Commercial is proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and small parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact us today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs. ABS Commercial. We are brewers. Support Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast

When Winslow Sawyer and his partners launched San Diego’s Pure Project in the middle of the last decade, they weren’t focused on brewing particular styles. Instead, they began with the tenet of building a brewery focused on sustainability, using natural ingredients from small farmers wherever possible, and lowering their environmental impact while also giving back through the 1% for the Planet program. IPA wasn’t the initial focus—San Diego already had plenty of great IPAs—but as the hazy IPA trend caught on Sawyer quickly found a way to explore his love of New Zealand hops despite the constraint Pure Project placed on themselves—no reverse osmosis, only municipal water built up, not stripped down. Now, they don’t define their hazy IPAs as “New England-style,” but have coined the term “murky” instead. In this episode, Sawyer discusses their approach to a range of beers, from IPA to pale lager and even spontaneously fermented acid-forward beer. Along the way, he covers: consciously choosing single infusion over decoction in their pale lager balancing flavor intensity with drinkability altering their approach to hoppy beers over the past number of years using Mosaic as a base for experimentation with new hops reducing dankness as beers increase in ABV brewing spontaneous beers with wet hops And more. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across the country along the way, and they’re proud of the cool partnerships they’ve built over the past 30 years. Reach out for a quote today at gdchillers.com or call to discuss your next project. BSG Craft Brewing (https://Bsgcraftbrewing.com/Cancraft): Stressed about packaging and can supply? Don’t worry, CanCraft’s team of design & aluminum specialists are here to make things easy by supporting you every step of the way. Visit Bsgcraftbrewing.com/Cancraft to get started Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Old Orchard's new brewing customers often mention discovering Old Orchard through the word-of-mouth recommendation of another brewer. To join the core of Old Orchard's brewing community, learn more at oldorchard.com/brewer Accubrew (https://accubrew.io) The AccuBrew system is designed to give you unprecedented insight into the fermentation process. Monitor gravity, fermentation activity, clarity, and temperature, schedule reminders, and receive alerts anywhere, anytime. To learn more about AccuBrew head over to AccuBrew.io ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) The ProFill series of rotary can fillers from ProBrew are accelerating plant production everywhere. For more information, visit www.probrew.com or email contactus@probrew.com. Tabski (https://tabski.com): Tabski QR Code Ordering is the future of brewery ordering! With Tabski, your customers can order and pay for their beers right from their phones by scanning a QR Code on the table. Get rid of lengthy lines and increase check size by up to 30%! Learn how you can get started today at tabski.com. Omega Yeast (https://omegayeast.com): Thiolized yeast are a new tool for brewers to bring intense guava and passionfruit aromas out of your malt and hops. And wait, there’s more! Omega Yeast makes yeast-to-order with a consistent one week lead time ensuring peak freshness and reliability. Five Star Chemicals (https://fivestarchemicals.com): Keep your brewery running smoothly with Five Star Chemicals. Our cleaning solutions are specifically formulated to meet the unique needs of breweries, ensuring that your equipment stays clean and free of harmful bacteria and contaminants. ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com): ABS Commercial is proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and small parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact us today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs. ABS Commercial. We are brewers. Support Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast

Shawn McIlhenney carries on his father's legacy of hop experimentation by utilizing Southern hemisphere hops, blending Nelson Sauvin and Nectaron hops, and exploring techniques like first wort hopping and advanced hop products. He shares insights on scaling up to double and triple IPA recipes, avoiding over-aeration, and the joy of brewing.

Justin Burdt loves hops, and has developed a unique and somewhat counter-intuitive approach to selecting them for Ghost Town’s award-winning West coast IPAs. His focus on tight and lean intensity relies on boosting expression through embracing some hop aroma notes that give other brewers fits, but it’s the push and pull that gives the IPAs such compelling dynamic range. In this episode, Burdt dives deep into hops for the first hour of the podcast, before walking through the rest of their IPA brewing process, and finishing on the subject of West coast pils. Along the way, he discusses: What makes for “good” hops Searching for the stinging physical sensation in intense hops How Citra with “cat pee” notes can make better IPAs Focusing on hop oil quality over quantity Using certain hops in more concentrated forms like cryo The unique characteristics of HBC586 Choosing lager or ale yeast for fermentation based on a beer’s hop profile Brewing specific competition batches to increase win percentage And more. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across the country along the way, and they’re proud of the cool partnerships they’ve built over the past 30 years. Reach out for a quote today at gdchillers.com or call to discuss your next project. BSG Craft Brewing (https://BSGCraftbrewing.com): If you’ve been searching for the perfect malt that’s not quite Pale and not Munich, you’re in luck. Gambrinus Vienna is the malt you’ve been looking for. Visit BSGCraftbrewing.com to learn more Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Old Orchard supplies flavored craft juice concentrate blends to beverage brands for the production of beer, cider, seltzer, wine, spirits, kombucha, and more. Flavor your lineup and streamline your sourcing by heading to oldorchard.com/brewer Accubrew (https://accubrew.io) The AccuBrew system is designed to give you unprecedented insight into the fermentation process. Monitor gravity, fermentation activity, clarity, and temperature, schedule reminders, and receive alerts anywhere, anytime. To learn more about AccuBrew head over to AccuBrew.io ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) The ProFill series of rotary can fillers from ProBrew are accelerating plant production everywhere. For more information, visit www.probrew.com or email contactus@probrew.com. Tabski (https://tabski.com): Tabski QR Code Ordering is the future of brewery ordering! With Tabski, your customers can order and pay for their beers right from their phones by scanning a QR Code on the table. Get rid of lengthy lines and increase check size by up to 30%! Learn how you can get started today at tabski.com. Twin Monkeys (https://TwinMonkeys.net): Are you ready to start canning your craft beverages? Twin Monkeys Beverage Systems is here to help. This troop of engineers, service techs, and microbrew fanatics offers customizable packaging solutions for every craft. Visit TwinMonkeys.net today. Fermentis (https://fermentis.com): Discover a whole SafLager™ range by Fermentis, covering from traditional to modern-style lagers: SafLager™ S-189, for the elegant lagers with floral notes, SafLager™ S-23, for fruity and hoppy ones, and SafLager™ W-34/70 for your neutral beers. Want to know more about SafLager™ yeasts? Visit www.fermentis.com! ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com): ABS Commercial is proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and small parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact us today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs. ABS Commercial. We are brewers. Support Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast

As part of the recent Craft Beer & Brewing Brewer’s Retreat, hosted by Russian River in late May 2023, Jamie moderated panel discussions before a live audience of attendees and featured brewers. This episode is a recording of one such panel on West coast-style IPA, featuring Matt Brynildson of Firestone Walker, Ben Edmunds of Breakside, and Sean Lawson of Lawson’s Finest. Over the course of the discussion, the brewers cover: using advanced hop products for more hop punch tucking in small amounts of character-building malts dry hopping with dosing vessels mid-fermentation dry hopping with cryo hops for less hop creep and more flavor stability using ALDC to manage hop creep top noting in the dry hop with Southern hemisphere hops managing pH in dry hopping controlling FAN through dry hopping for longevity And more. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across the country along the way, and they’re proud of the cool partnerships they’ve built over the past 30 years. Reach out for a quote today at gdchillers.com or call to discuss your next project. BSG Craft Brewing (https://BSGCraftbrewing.com): As distributors of quality domestic malts like Rahr and Gambrinus, BSG gives you the freedom to explore a world of flavors but at local prices. So, you can cut costs but not quality. Start exploring at BSGCraftbrewing.com Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Old Orchard supplies flavored craft juice concentrate blends to beverage brands for the production of beer, cider, seltzer, wine, spirits, kombucha, and more. Flavor your lineup and streamline your sourcing by heading to oldorchard.com/brewer Accubrew (https://accubrew.io) The AccuBrew system is designed to give you unprecedented insight into the fermentation process. Monitor gravity, fermentation activity, clarity, and temperature, schedule reminders, and receive alerts anywhere, anytime. To learn more about AccuBrew head over to AccuBrew.io ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) The ProFill series of rotary can fillers from ProBrew are accelerating plant production everywhere. For more information, visit www.probrew.com or email contactus@probrew.com. US Water Systems (https://USWaterSystems.com): US Water Systems.com has been at the forefront of the craft brewing industry and created American made water treatment systems with brewers in mind. Whether you're a hobbyist or a pro, head on over to US Water Systems.com to learn more. Twin Monkeys (https://TwinMonkeys.net): Are you ready to start canning your craft beverages? Twin Monkeys Beverage Systems is here to help. This troop of engineers, service techs, and microbrew fanatics offers customizable packaging solutions for every craft. Visit TwinMonkeys.net today. Fermentis (https://fermentis.com): Discover a whole SafLager™ range by Fermentis, covering from traditional to modern-style lagers: SafLager™ S-189, for the elegant lagers with floral notes, SafLager™ S-23, for fruity and hoppy ones, and SafLager™ W-34/70 for your neutral beers. Want to know more about SafLager™ yeasts? Visit www.fermentis.com! ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com): ABS Commercial is proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and small parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact us today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs. ABS Commercial. We are brewers.Support Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast

As part of the recent Craft Beer & Brewing Brewer’s Retreat, hosted by Russian River in late May 2023, Jamie moderated panel discussions before a live audience of attendees and featured brewers. This episode is a recording of one such panel on wine-beer hybrids, featuring two of the leading brewers in that space—Cory King of Side Project and Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River—alongside inspiring winemaker and brewer (and Napa Valley proponent) Nick Gislason of Hanabi Lager. Over the course of the discussion, the brewers cover: understanding grapes and tannins pick timing’s impact on grapes structuring acids and balancing tannins with acidity grape pressing methodology and skin contact time selecting grapes and beers that complement each other in the blend using Brettanomyces strains to boost flavor characteristics building harmony in complex beers finishing and carbonation in wine-beer hybrids And more. This episode is brought to you by: G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): For years G&D Chillers has chilled the beers you love, partnering with 3,000+ breweries across the country along the way, and they’re proud of the cool partnerships they’ve built over the past 30 years. Reach out for a quote today at gdchillers.com or call to discuss your next project. BSG Craft Brewing (https://BSGCraftbrewing.com): Is your Pilsner looking flat? Wishing you could show off a mousse like foam stand or looking to boost mouthfeel in a hazy? Then look no further because Rahr Dextrin Malt is here to improve your beer. Visit BSGCraftbrewing.com to learn how Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Old Orchard supplies flavored craft juice concentrate blends to beverage brands for the production of beer, cider, seltzer, wine, spirits, kombucha, and more. Flavor your lineup and streamline your sourcing by heading to oldorchard.com/brewer Accubrew (https://accubrew.io) The AccuBrew system is designed to give you unprecedented insight into the fermentation process. Monitor gravity, fermentation activity, clarity, and temperature, schedule reminders, and receive alerts anywhere, anytime. To learn more about AccuBrew head over to AccuBrew.io ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) The ProFill series of rotary can fillers from ProBrew are accelerating plant production everywhere. For more information, visit www.probrew.com or email contactus@probrew.com. US Water Systems (https://USWaterSystems.com): US Water Systems.com has been at the forefront of the craft brewing industry and created American made water treatment systems with brewers in mind. Whether you're a hobbyist or a pro, head on over to US Water Systems.com to learn more. Twin Monkeys (https://TwinMonkeys.net): Are you ready to start canning your craft beverages? Twin Monkeys Beverage Systems is here to help. This troop of engineers, service techs, and microbrew fanatics offers customizable packaging solutions for every craft. Visit TwinMonkeys.net today. Fermentis (https://fermentis.com): Discover a whole SafLager™ range by Fermentis, covering from traditional to modern-style lagers: SafLager™ S-189, for the elegant lagers with floral notes, SafLager™ S-23, for fruity and hoppy ones, and SafLager™ W-34/70 for your neutral beers. Want to know more about SafLager™ yeasts? Visit www.fermentis.com! ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com): ABS Commercial is proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and small parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact us today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs. ABS Commercial. We are brewers.Support Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast